Guild Wars 2

Hey all, I just wanted to share my idea of integrating Agony resistance & damage to new area which would act as a hardcore map for players who actually grind for ascended armour and trinkets.

Possible lore which would allow adding new AR area:

I dont know much about Dessa experiments in the Mist, but she could open a new fractal dungeon for us which would take us to battle Risen in Orr, possibly even see Zhaitan in his last dying moments.

Since the Elder dragons are creatures of magic Zhaitan could just before he died somehow discover that there’s something wrong (Dessa messing up with mist). He could use that window of opportunity to extend his influence inside the mist even after his death (some crazy story how Dessa from future changed Zhaitan death). Zhaitan would still be dead but that would explain how the Risen have not been weakened after all this time + Tequatl is growing even stronger.

With his magic influence he could tear apart Mist (LS season 3?) and create bridges between mist and Tyria on a specific new location – perhaps a new map in Orr (Arah city). This would allow Risen creatures from mist crossing over to Tyria or the existing Risen in the area would became corrupt with Agony, thus having agony attacks.

Map mechanics:

• When player would enter new area agony attack would start ticking (no AR – instant death and WP outside of map)
• lvl 80+(80-85) mobs with unblockable agony attacks
• Introduction of new hardcore boss or more of them, with every one of them using agony attacks and would take a lot of skills to bring them down
• Players would be able to obtain Fractal relics as a reward and maybe some crazy RNG for new skins
• adding a merchant inside a map who would exchange relics for Fractal weapons and various other rewards
• Perhaps parts of the map would require to have more AR than others or create separate areas for specific AR.

Note: The map would be filled with experienced, somehow grindy players and that would allow to create hardcore content and maybe even introduce grinding for precursors (It’s allowed to have dreams )

Benefits from new system:

• A lot more players would start crafting ascended armour and playing high lvl fractals in order to obtain acces to new map – they would have a incentive to continue playing after they hit lvl 80.
• All players who crafted ascended armour would be rewarded for doing this
• This would be Anet way of introducing pve endgame content and creating a bigger and more stable community.

Let me know what you guys think and what would you change/add/remove.
Keep on rocking \m/

Hm how to put it … This will not attract hardcore players but players who can use their impressive skills to farm and buy agony resistance on the tp !

SkillWars2, you know it.

I think this would go against the principles of the agony as a game mechanic.

As of now, agony is a way to generate some gear grind. It was since the very beginning a bone thrown at the hardcore players who wanted something more challenging than arah to grind.

So it is not meant to be used in an open world area. in fact, I believe it will NOT be used in any open world PvE.

However, a new dungeon with agony in it (white mantle citadel, who knows ?) is absolutely possible.

new map could require around 25AR which is easily obtained if you do guild missions and make a few fractal runs to obtain ascended rings and buy versatile agony infusions.

I dont see a problem for a new player gaining access to map, if he’s willing to play fractals or craft ascended armour. Even if you dont have AR you could still access map from LS journey system, you just woudnt have a chance of fighting new bosses and some other stuff.

Since agony resistance is unlimited, there’ll always be a value for every encounter that fully negates agony damage. If you balance “challenging, high skill demanding” content around it, you get nothing but a gear gating; if you balance around a smaller value, you allow players to bypass the challenge through gear grinding.
I can’t figure what the benefit of using AR is. If gating end-game content behind some kind of grind / time sink si the idea, there are actually much better ways to do it.

Vargamonth.2047:

Since agony resistance is unlimited, there’ll always be a value for every encounter that fully negates agony damage. If you balance “challenging, high skill demanding” content around it, you get nothing but a gear gating; if you balance around a smaller value, you allow players to bypass the challenge through gear grinding.
I can’t figure what the benefit of using AR is. If gating end-game content behind some kind of grind / time sink si the idea, there are actually much better ways to do it.

Anet incorporated wide variety of obtaining ascended ites which partially negates grind/time sink. Iff you add some sort of instance-based persisting map through LS journal, players could completely avoid AR requirement at a cost of some restrictions to rewards. This system is already in place in Fractals- you dont need AR to play it but the rewards get better if you do higher levels, which require huge grind/time sink.

Balancing challenges would be through small AR requirements. Let’s demonstrate:
Players with 25AR would get 5 ticks of 6% agony damage on a time span of 1 min, which would damage them for 30% HP which can easily be healed up. Players with higher AR would always get 1% AR damage so they would lose 5% HP. It’s good to have higher AR but you cant bypass the challenge through AR, especially if boss has interesting mechanics or if a few agony attacks can bypass AR completely and it’s up to players to dodge them.
You can either dodge or suffer small HP loss. Players with higher AR would still get beaten by other attacks.

The idea of AR areas is to further extend the mechanics of combat in normal pve, just like they did with Toxic Pollen Effect.

I have no issue with them adding content that requires agony resistance… on 2 conditions.

1) They make infusions less kitten expensive. Considering masterwork+ tier infusions are coming, I think 100 to 250 t6 (depending on what you’re going for) is a bit much for a BLUE infusion. I can only imagine what a rare infusion would freaking cost to make…

2) They fix cloths drops and damask requirements

No maps with AR except for Fractals. A.Net said that is the only place AR would be used as it is specific for those.

Only way I can see this working is like in GW1, where you have to do a quest to get your armor ‘infused’ otherwise it is a no from me. This would mean just another way to have ‘leetists’ in game even more.

Yes to more challenging areas. No to using Agony Resistance as part of the challenge. Challenge in GW2 should be overcome with skill, not gear.

+1 For “skill not gear”
The only way this suggestion would work is for Anet to make ascended items as hard to get as exotics were and then we’re right back where this mess all started.

Back when the first ascended items were introduced people cried foul. One of the main reasons was the possibility that Agony would be introduced into the open world.
Now that ascended items are here to stay and have been added to every craft except Jewelry and Cooking they are a little easier to come by. Yet at the average cost to make one piece of gear and the cost of infusions, this will limit the amount of players that could take advantage of open world agony dealing mobs.

Unless there is someway that current exotics can be infused or acquisition of ascended items is made easier, Anet would be alienating a large percentage of the player base.
I’m with Dusty Moon and IndigoSundown on this one. I’d much rather Anet work on mob AI to increase challenge than slap an ascended/AR requirement on a map.

I wouldn’t mind seeing AR somewhere OTHER than fractals though. I can see and appreciate the issues have having it in a map, but maybe in a new dungeon path, or whole new dungeon, outside of fractals would be cool. Maybe something involving the mursaat and the white mantle (because thats where agony started) with LS Season 2.

Who knows? But I think having a use for that armor I so painstakinigly crafted outside of fractals would be nice.

pdavis.8031:

I wouldn’t mind seeing AR somewhere OTHER than fractals though. I can see and appreciate the issues have having it in a map, but maybe in a new dungeon path, or whole new dungeon, outside of fractals would be cool. Maybe something involving the mursaat and the white mantle (because thats where agony started) with LS Season 2.

Who knows? But I think having a use for that armor I so painstakinigly crafted outside of fractals would be nice.

This is about what I thought when I read your post (and partially something I had thought of before your post). I wouldn’t mind AR having a non-fractal use, but only if it’s in the way of a nice little bonus, that’s not really necessary. Perhaps the equivalent of a consumable buff against a very particular enemy….

pdavis.8031:

I wouldn’t mind seeing AR somewhere OTHER than fractals though. I can see and appreciate the issues have having it in a map, but maybe in a new dungeon path, or whole new dungeon, outside of fractals would be cool. Maybe something involving the mursaat and the white mantle (because thats where agony started) with LS Season 2.

Who knows? But I think having a use for that armor I so painstakinigly crafted outside of fractals would be nice.

I wouldn’t mind it either, but taking a step back I can see how many would. Since I am crafting ascended gear, it doesn’t bother me, but for anyone that doesn’t craft and/or doesn’t get the ascended armor, content that requires AR is now gear gated. Which is something even I don’t particularly agree with. Although I guess, thinking about it long enough, even GW1 had a small measure of gear gating, but that’s neither here nor there.

They’d need to make ascended more readily available, to reduce the gate to something negligible, so players (including myself) wouldn’t cry foul. We do want the game to be skill based, not armor based. Unfortunately there’s a very fine line between the two, which I’m sure it’s sometimes hard for devs’ to walk.

Yeah the time gate on ascended is stupid. But I think it was reduced. I made a lump of Mirthil the other night, and instead of a 24 hr CD, it only had an 8 hour CD. I don’t know if that had something to do with the time of day I made it or not though.

pdavis.8031:

Yeah the time gate on ascended is stupid. But I think it was reduced. I made a lump of Mirthil the other night, and instead of a 24 hr CD, it only had an 8 hour CD. I don’t know if that had something to do with the time of day I made it or not though.

At what time did you make it?

It’s not a true “24 hour” cool down, like other games. It’s just “once a day.” It simply resets at server rollover, just like world boss and dungeon rewards.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

pdavis.8031:

Yeah the time gate on ascended is stupid. But I think it was reduced. I made a lump of Mirthil the other night, and instead of a 24 hr CD, it only had an 8 hour CD. I don’t know if that had something to do with the time of day I made it or not though.

At what time did you make it?

It’s not a true “24 hour” cool down, like other games. It’s just “once a day.” It simply resets at server rollover, just like world boss and dungeon rewards.

I think it was around 9pm PST 8pm-1030sih PST is generally my play window…

pdavis.8031:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

pdavis.8031:

Yeah the time gate on ascended is stupid. But I think it was reduced. I made a lump of Mirthil the other night, and instead of a 24 hr CD, it only had an 8 hour CD. I don’t know if that had something to do with the time of day I made it or not though.

At what time did you make it?

It’s not a true “24 hour” cool down, like other games. It’s just “once a day.” It simply resets at server rollover, just like world boss and dungeon rewards.

I think it was around 9pm PST 8pm-1030sih PST is generally my play window…

That would give about 2 hours until roll over… so it’s possible you were just seeing the time remaining until roll over. I’ve been crafting mine each night right after roll over (all 4 components) for about a week now and the timer is always 23 hours blah blah after I’m done. Well no, I take that back. I did damask early on Saturday (noonish, cause I forgot friday night) and I had roughly an 8 hour count down on it (which was the time left until evening roll over). So, pretty sure we’re still at “one per day”

Since we have Fractals of the Mists we should keep AR inside. I would welcome if Aranenet could raise the level cap to 75 or 100 and the AR requirements (maybe 125 to 150 as new maximum for last level) and finally add new instabilities.

Should include upgrades that adds infusion slots on Exotics gears, through Mystic Forge, just like Ascended and Legendary gear have.

Or nerf the superior stat bonuses away from Ascended and Legendary, since there was no “Superior Elite gear” in GW1, so it shouldn’t be in GW2 either.

Players still went through alot in GW1 to get Elite armors, even when they weren’t superior.

Since ANet said, it’s not needed to get Ascended or Legendaries to play whole GW2.

Also that we have no confirmed kill on Zhaitan, it was just Defeated.

FrostSpectre.4198:

Should include upgrades that adds infusion slots on Exotics gears, through Mystic Forge, just like Ascended and Legendary gear have.

Or nerf the superior stat bonuses away from Ascended and Legendary, since there was no “Superior Elite gear” in GW1, so it shouldn’t be in GW2 either.

Players still went through alot in GW1 to get Elite armors, even when they weren’t superior.

Since ANet said, it’s not needed to get Ascended or Legendaries to play whole GW2.

---

Also that we have no confirmed kill on Zhaitan, it was just Defeated.

1)That wouldn’t be a bad idea, actually.

2)No. The stat difference between Ascended and exotic armor is ~5%, so it’s not THAT superior. Full exotic armor is more than good enough to complete ALL content. With Ascended trinkets, one can still get enough AR to do level 50 without an issue. Nerfing it to the same level as exotic would put out almost every player who spent the blood sweat and tears crafting it. Legendary weapon stats are the same as ascended. However with a legendary you can change the stats when OOC (i.e. switch from beserker stats to rabid). Again either of these don’t provide so much of an advantage that they need to be nerfed.
2a) This isn’t GW1. This is GW2. The only thing that the two games share is the in-game history/lore, and the name. GW1 wasn’t an MMO and was an entirely different type of game from GW2. Comparing the two is apples and oranges.

3) That is true. It’s not NEEDED. They are Luxury items that require a lot of time and gold. And thats what makes them special.

What about we keep AR where it belongs, in Fractals.
If you guys need harcore stuff try teequatl alone or the Worms with 3 people
or play Fractals.
You can also join Pvp if bored.

You guys have to understand one thing.
A-Net learned that the majority player doesn’t want Raids, Zerking, hard core farming,
AR or whatever ultra stuff you guys play.
The regular player wants a nice fantasy world with epic storys and being a hero.
I don’t have any interest in changing the game play to a hard core game.
I am interested in the story not in loot or titles or whatever.

Thankfully A-Net leaned a lot and went back to personal experiences.

No, never ever. This will make ascended gear a requirement.
Keep Agony Resistance where it belongs and keep ascended gear optional.

As it is now, I can happily ignore Fractals.

I’d be fine with it if Ascended gear can be traded though.

Kurrilino.2706:

What about we keep AR where it belongs, in Fractals.
If you guys need harcore stuff try teequatl alone or the Worms with 3 people
or play Fractals.
You can also join Pvp if bored.

You guys have to understand one thing.
A-Net learned that the majority player doesn’t want Raids, Zerking, hard core farming,
AR or whatever ultra stuff you guys play.
The regular player wants a nice fantasy world with epic storys and being a hero.
I don’t have any interest in changing the game play to a hard core game.
I am interested in the story not in loot or titles or whatever.

Thankfully A-Net leaned a lot and went back to personal experiences.

I’m not looking for “extra spicy hardcoreness of doom” content. But it would be nice to have another use for my ascended armor OTHER than high level fractals. It doesn’t make sense to have a whole new armor/weapon/trinket tier, A whole new system to combat a new type of condition, new crafting recipies, mats, drops, skins, etc. JUST for running fractals. If they wanted to go beyond level 50, that would be cool too. But a dungeon boss, or path, that required AR, much like fractals, wouldn’t be out of line at all. It’s completely optional, much like the Aetherblade path (seriously, does anyone even run that anymore?) and wouldn’t give any “special” loot that couldn’t be gotten from any other dungeon.

pdavis.8031:

Kurrilino.2706:

What about we keep AR where it belongs, in Fractals.
If you guys need harcore stuff try teequatl alone or the Worms with 3 people
or play Fractals.
You can also join Pvp if bored.

You guys have to understand one thing.
A-Net learned that the majority player doesn’t want Raids, Zerking, hard core farming,
AR or whatever ultra stuff you guys play.
The regular player wants a nice fantasy world with epic storys and being a hero.
I don’t have any interest in changing the game play to a hard core game.
I am interested in the story not in loot or titles or whatever.

Thankfully A-Net leaned a lot and went back to personal experiences.

I’m not looking for “extra spicy hardcoreness of doom” content. But it would be nice to have another use for my ascended armor OTHER than high level fractals. It doesn’t make sense to have a whole new armor/weapon/trinket tier, A whole new system to combat a new type of condition, new crafting recipies, mats, drops, skins, etc. JUST for running fractals. If they wanted to go beyond level 50, that would be cool too. But a dungeon boss, or path, that required AR, much like fractals, wouldn’t be out of line at all. It’s completely optional, much like the Aetherblade path (seriously, does anyone even run that anymore?) and wouldn’t give any “special” loot that couldn’t be gotten from any other dungeon.

Well i guess this is a legit desire. AR is valuable in Fractal.
But i honestly don’t see any use for it in open world.
This would create an area not playable for casual players.

But i am convinced that they constantly upate the Fractals.
Lots of stuff happened in the past and i guess they will include GW1 stuff in here.
Something like the “protect Glinth baby” mission from the dwarf hall.

Ugh, no. Sorry, but I feel like you do not understand the role of Agony or Agony Resistance in this game. It is simply there to add grind and “gear progression” in an opt-in, self-contained game mode.

Agony does not bring anything of value to the game. It is not an interesting mechanic. It is simply a thing that kills you if you do not have the requisite resistance score (pretty much a “gear check” in other MMOs). GW2 is not designed to be grindy in this way. If you brought Agony out of Fractals and into the rest of the game, people would freak out and probably a large segment of players would simply not see new content or would leave the game entirely.

Your suggestion didn’t even include anything that made the game more interesting or complex. It’s just a simple gear check, a.k.a. “You can’t come in here without X amount of AR.” That is not fun. That is not good game design. That definitely would not give anyone a so-called “incentive to continue playing after they hit lvl 80.”

If you really want agony as a condition in open world then you have to consider how it is the players with only exotics at level 80 can still participate. Anet won’t alienate their player base.
I still say by improving mob and thereby boss AI, the challenge will come. You can already see where Anet has tried to break up the zerg mentality in the crown pavilion. Though the CP is not the improvement on AI at least it is a start in a new direction.
If Anet starts making adaptable bosses that are no longer high HP pinatas, agony will be the least desirable addition. Imagine a boss that can calculate the amount of damage it takes from conditions versus direct and can shift it’s abilities and skills from there and become immune to one while vulnerable to the other. A boss that dodges, runs, steals a player’s skill… etc.
No more cheap one shot kills, huge HP, cheap gimmicks (defiant or agony).

Did someone already mention Agony belongs with the Murssaut so we can expect agony events with anything mursaut and white mantal additions in gw2 Lore wise. Probably wont happen till dragons are dead though. Considering murssaut hid from dragons last awakening. I can see this being the post dragons LS easily though. Remerging to take over the world when we are weakened and battered. They hid last time why wouldn’t they hide this time.

Ascended jewelry can be gotten for almost zero effort 30AR easy. Agony is dodgable

Yeah, I mentioned the Mursaat and the White Mantle, but apparently it was ignored

pdavis.8031:

Kurrilino.2706:

What about we keep AR where it belongs, in Fractals.
If you guys need harcore stuff try teequatl alone or the Worms with 3 people
or play Fractals.
You can also join Pvp if bored.

You guys have to understand one thing.
A-Net learned that the majority player doesn’t want Raids, Zerking, hard core farming,
AR or whatever ultra stuff you guys play.
The regular player wants a nice fantasy world with epic storys and being a hero.
I don’t have any interest in changing the game play to a hard core game.
I am interested in the story not in loot or titles or whatever.

Thankfully A-Net leaned a lot and went back to personal experiences.

I’m not looking for “extra spicy hardcoreness of doom” content. But it would be nice to have another use for my ascended armor OTHER than high level fractals.

Ascended armor never should have existed in the first place. Anet just added it to satisfy the people who kept begging for gear grind.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

pdavis.8031:

Kurrilino.2706:

What about we keep AR where it belongs, in Fractals.
If you guys need harcore stuff try teequatl alone or the Worms with 3 people
or play Fractals.
You can also join Pvp if bored.

You guys have to understand one thing.
A-Net learned that the majority player doesn’t want Raids, Zerking, hard core farming,
AR or whatever ultra stuff you guys play.
The regular player wants a nice fantasy world with epic storys and being a hero.
I don’t have any interest in changing the game play to a hard core game.
I am interested in the story not in loot or titles or whatever.

Thankfully A-Net leaned a lot and went back to personal experiences.

I’m not looking for “extra spicy hardcoreness of doom” content. But it would be nice to have another use for my ascended armor OTHER than high level fractals.

Ascended armor never should have existed in the first place. Anet just added it to satisfy the people who kept begging for gear grind.

They said they wouldn’t add anything for 1year i think and that was the promise they broke. Ascended was always coming. otherwise they wouldn’t have said that legendaries would always be the best on day 1.

Agony open world bosses arn’t coming till after all elder dragons are dead. Also we most likely will get fotm 10 agony which is no agony resistance required. So most are really complaining about nothing accent a different damage mechanism for bosses being implemented. Anet so far has been very conservative on what they add to GW2.

If we had a extreamly hard elder dragon fight where mountains we being cleaved and armies of npc and players by the 100s where being slaughtered. people would complain about the difficulty too. Difficulty and epicness walk hand in hand.

Fafnir.5124:

So most are really complaining about nothing accent a different damage mechanism for bosses being implemented. Anet so far has been very conservative on what they add to GW2.

I don’t mind other damage mechanisms being added. But not one that requires gear that can only be obtained in very specific (and boring (imo)) ways. Sure the trinkets are easy enough to obtain, but the weapons and armor are a nightmare. I absolutely hate crafting.. Getting a crafting profession to 500 alone takes tons of gold.

I have a great idea : They put a negative booster in the Gem-Store. When you use it
YOU need agony resistence .. everybody else can still play like they want and ignore the whole fractal / acended stuff.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I have no issue with them adding content that requires agony resistance… on 2 conditions.

1) They make infusions less kitten expensive. Considering masterwork+ tier infusions are coming, I think 100 to 250 t6 (depending on what you’re going for) is a bit much for a BLUE infusion. I can only imagine what a rare infusion would freaking cost to make…

2) They fix cloths drops and damask requirements

i see it now.
legendary infusion: 30 agony resist and 50 of any stat.
cost: eternity, incinerator, bifrost, and bolt put into the mystic forge.

Mursaats in the Ring of Fire will require AR… but we will have to wait till the year 2037 to see them

Well, it’s a slight possibility for Mursaat and White Mantle to come back…

Especially since Mursaat are magical race, dragons would love to eat them all…

More reason to give exotic gear upgrade option to add infusion slots. (Tho I wish that ascended gear never existed, but since they do, they’re now impossible to get rid of. Legendary weapons, could understand of course…)

I’d rather see less dependence on ascended gear in this game, not more.

This is a terrible idea. Gear gating doesn’t belong here. I don’t understand people’s obsession with bigger numbers on their gear. It doesn’t make you a better player. If anything it makes you play sloppier because the gear’s stats are a crutch.