Guild Wars 2

phys.7689:

the problem with gold rewards is they cannot build them without large implications for the economy. Which limits their ability to reward gameplay.

thats part of the reason almost all currencies(non gold) are designed to have little to no trading power, or a very ineffecient one. Tokens allows them to reward people based on good design, rather than economic concerns.

I am talking specifically about dungeons though. I just don’t see them add new rewards to the most unsupported part of the game, not when it’s already profitable. Maybe if all dungeons had the same tokens like in FFXIV, but since every currency is tied to only 1 dungeon, it doesn’t seem realistic.

Other currencies are different I guess, but putting a cap on it without adding a sink is not cool either. What are we supposed to do with all our capped currencies until they decide to add a new reward? Although personally I think there are quite a bit of good sinks in the game, people sitting on 20 mil karma may disagree with me. :P

maddoctor.2738:

Why do you think they don’t use dungeon tokens for new items anymore?

Maybe because this is a buy-to-play game, and dungeons are that part of content which has limited replayability by design?

Crests, geodes and other currencies are completely the same. This content has limited replayability (or rather, rewardability) per player by design, and once you reach a certain amount of tokens, you’re out of unique rewards and left with generic low-profit conversion options. And this is completely normal in a casual B2P game where you get well worth of content for the money you paid, and if you have extra, that’s your problem for spending too much time playing and going beyond the system’s intended content-reward balance.

phys.7689:

then again 5 stacks of bandit crests is just as annoying.

That is a completely different problem, which is (I am almost fully confident about it) has to do with the amount of UI/database coders vs. content designers. They simply need to rework the wallet to accept all past and new currencies, shifting old ones to the bottom, and the problem is fixed. But the game used to have a limited set of currencies in the database at wallet launch, and everything else was handled via trophy items in inventory; at some point, the content paradigm shifted, and we see more and more tokens (with a relevant problem of needing “many” tokens to drop as otherwise it doesn’t feel rewarding) – however, the system was not designed to handle them, and we’re stuck with hoarding them in the bank as a temporary solution (with vendor access to bank as a band-aid solution).

So, the token system is totally fine – specific rewards for specific content solves the problem of “generic” currencies really well; it’s just the wallet that, well… sucks.

phys.7689:

to be honest dungeon runners dont care about currency other than turning it into gold anyhow. Which is still doable. you just cant wait for a million tokens to get around to it.

people on karma trains, want karma to spend on something, not for the joy of having karma

anet has straight up said they cant use things like karma/tokens in other content because it would give older players too much of a headstart.
The end result is a lot of near worthless currencies, and new ones all the time

a cap could solve that

Well, that’s a fair point, but doesn’t it seem a bit contradictory? If people generally do these activities to convert to gold, then hoarding of tokens/karma shouldn’t be more of a problem than gold hoarding.

Edit: not to say that gold hoarding isn’t a problem, but if there was a concern about veteran players having too big a head start it would be more about gold than dungeon tokens and karma.

I don’t see why people are egging on the OP. He brings up a valid concern. Currently GW2 has far too many currencies, and the currencies keep piling up. OP attempts to address the lack of reuse of old currencies. If you disagree with his proposal, by all means explain why and (if possible) provide an alternative solution. Simply saying that his idea sucks is not constructive.

At the moment the system is designed to behave as follows: Each ‘currency’ (be it event reward or actual wallet currency) has a limited number of useful things to buy. After that, the currency becomes useless with exception of a single, somewhat meaningless conversion into some sort of resource. Thus each new currency introduced goes through the same stages – mad hoarding to get the rewards, dumping the rest into the conversion, forgetting that the area ever existed as no more rewards can be gained (converting bandit crests to bags is fairly inefficient, only reason why it’s done is because people have an excess of crests due to how much of a loot pinata SW is).

If people think they have enough of a currency and they don’t want any more, get rid of it yourself. The only reason to want a cap is to force everyone else to have the same currency limitation as you.

Lishtenbird.2814:

maddoctor.2738:

Why do you think they don’t use dungeon tokens for new items anymore?

Maybe because this is a buy-to-play game, and dungeons are that part of content which has limited replayability by design?

Crests, geodes and other currencies are completely the same. This content has limited replayability (or rather, rewardability) per player by design, and once you reach a certain amount of tokens, you’re out of unique rewards and left with generic low-profit conversion options. And this is completely normal in a casual B2P game where you get well worth of content for the money you paid, and if you have extra, that’s your problem for spending too much time playing and going beyond the system’s intended content-reward balance.

So you are fine getting a ton of currencies that are only useful to hoard them, once you get what you actually want from them? Well I’m not fine with it, all currencies have the potential for replayability, limiting how many currencies are required by the game.

Of course the Living World idea has a lot to do with badly designed currencies, because they need currencies for each new part of the Living World, otherwise those hoarding currencies from part A of the LS will have enough to buy everything in part B without actually playing part B.

A cap is way to prevent that, if you have any other (better) solutions we can discuss them. However useless currencies ARE a problem, you can’t say it’s normal to have all those things accumulating without any way to use them.

It remains to be seen if moving away of the LS and going in an expansion the currency situation will get better. With an expansion they can add the same currency on all expansion zones, if it was LS, each zone who need a specific one. Maybe the expansion will lessen this enough, but still I don’t think it’s normal how they treat the older currencies.

the things some of you aren’t getting about OPs post is that if they cap currencies like dungeon tokens / karma etc

they can add new stuff to the rewards without having to worry about the old players being able to get everything all at once without having to work at it at all

of course depleting current excess would need to be designed but that could be done by adding crafting bags to all currencies and making them account bound

Djinn.9245:

If people think they have enough of a currency and they don’t want any more, get rid of it yourself. The only reason to want a cap is to force everyone else to have the same currency limitation as you.

I’ll redirect you here:

anet has straight up said they cant use things like karma/tokens in other content because it would give older players too much of a headstart. The end result is a lot of near worthless currencies, and new ones all the time

I think that’s reason enough to put a cap in some currencies. The reason they are adding new currencies instead of using the old ones is BECAUSE there is no way to prevent older players from making content obsolete the moment it’s released.

A cap is a way of fixing that. Got a better solution? We can discuss it, I never said that the cap is the one and only perfect solution. But you can’t deny the existence of that problem. The problem IS REAL.

maddoctor.2738:

A cap is way to prevent that, if you have any other (better) solutions we can discuss them. However useless currencies ARE a problem, you can’t say it’s normal to have all those things accumulating without any way to use them.

There’s nothing to solve about anything else besides karma. It is normal. In other games, content gets devoured between expansions and gets deserted. In this game, people can play it infinitely and whine about having too much of a currency. Really?

Lishtenbird.2814:

And this is completely normal in a casual B2P game where you get well worth of content for the money you paid, and if you have extra, that’s your problem for spending too much time playing and going beyond the system’s intended content-reward balance.

It is content which has to be various. If you tie all to gold, you have what we had before: grind Cursed Shore all day all week all month, buy legendary. Once you farmed all the gold, you get all the shinies. If you introduce currencies, you encourage playing different content. Once you farmed that specific currency, you get all the zone-specific shinies. The cap does exactly nothing than forcing people to spend tokens today, while new tokens already solve this problem.

And if people have played SW for 100 hours for Luminescent, and then 100 hours because they liked the content but were forced to spend tokens, and then they introduce Ultralescent which requires another 100 hours… guess what happens? And that is why we do not have a cap now and have new currencies instead. People have already been annoyed enough at new sudden items for geodes and left extracted Mordrem parts because they didn’t like having to “regrind” the same stuff again – you can already see why those ideas are bad.

Zania.8461:

At the moment the system is designed to behave as follows: Each ‘currency’ (be it event reward or actual wallet currency) has a limited number of useful things to buy. After that, the currency becomes useless with exception of a single, somewhat meaningless conversion into some sort of resource. Thus each new currency introduced goes through the same stages – mad hoarding to get the rewards, dumping the rest into the conversion, forgetting that the area ever existed as no more rewards can be gained (converting bandit crests to bags is fairly inefficient, only reason why it’s done is because people have an excess of crests due to how much of a loot pinata SW is).

So… why is it bad again? See above.

Zania.8461:

I don’t see why people are egging on the OP. He brings up a valid concern. Currently GW2 has far too many currencies, and the currencies keep piling up. OP attempts to address the lack of reuse of old currencies. If you disagree with his proposal, by all means explain why and (if possible) provide an alternative solution. Simply saying that his idea sucks is not constructive.

The only “unused” currency I see at the moment is karma. Everything else is okay – laurels have great value, dungeon tokens have great value, and even then, unless you’ve been grinding dungeons daily for more than a year, you wouldn’t have unlocked all skins for the collections.

Solution to karma? 1) There are several already – skins, linen, Orrian boxes. 2) New legendaries are coming. 3) You never know what’s coming and if you need it again after HoT. 4) They can always design a single set of armour and weapons to sell for karma similar to AP rewards and sell it at prohibitive cost as a prestige item. It isn’t that long, but it provides a nice end-game use for karma for that like, how many, 10%? of players who’re not casuals and still sit on tons of karma.

maddoctor.2738:

A cap is a way of fixing that. Got a better solution? We can discuss it, I never said that the cap is the one and only perfect solution. But you can’t deny the existence of that problem. The problem IS REAL.

Rather than capping the amount of currency you can hold, why not just cap the amount you can spend? If the goal is to make sure nobody with massive resources can skip ahead too early, just time-gate their spending: for the guild halls it will simply be the construction time, for armors it could be smithing time (game sorely needs actual smiths and not NPCs who pull full sets of armor out of their nether regions), etc.

maddoctor.2738:

Djinn.9245:

If people think they have enough of a currency and they don’t want any more, get rid of it yourself. The only reason to want a cap is to force everyone else to have the same currency limitation as you.

I’ll redirect you here:

anet has straight up said they cant use things like karma/tokens in other content because it would give older players too much of a headstart. The end result is a lot of near worthless currencies, and new ones all the time

I think that’s reason enough to put a cap in some currencies. The reason they are adding new currencies instead of using the old ones is BECAUSE there is no way to prevent older players from making content obsolete the moment it’s released.

A cap is a way of fixing that. Got a better solution? We can discuss it, I never said that the cap is the one and only perfect solution. But you can’t deny the existence of that problem. The problem IS REAL.

Older currencies are a current reward. If they want to cap them they would have to rework whole systems and figure out a different reward. People deserve to be rewarded for what they do the same as everyone else. If people reach a cap, they might decide to stop doing the activities that reward those currencies since they won’t be getting that part of their reward. Anet won’t want to give people a reason not to play.

maddoctor.2738:

Olvendred.3027:

How do you propose to implement this on the existing system? And how large do you want the caps to be for specific currencies?

The “simplest” Solution is to prevent players from earning anymore of a specific currency until they are below the cap. As for how large the caps should be, it depends on the currency itself, they can’t have the same caps

I am confused about this solution.

Lets say cap is 1000.
If I have 850 I cannot earn any more.
If I have over 1000 I can’t earn any more because of the cap.

So I cannot earn anymore than what I have, essentially making that currency dead…

maddoctor.2738:

Why? You want to have thousands of dungeon tokens and millions of karma just staying there being useless? You want to hoard your currencies for no reason at all, and the developers never ever release anything new for those?

You mean like the the hundreds and thousands of gold some players have? First of all, who says I’m even hoarding? That implies I’m actually going out and about to collect them on purpose, let alone even keeping track. Last I checked, I had just until a million karma, and that’s after spending nearly all of it for various reasons. How’d I get that much? Just by doing teq and other things like I normally do. Dungeon tokens? Maybe a hundred of a couple and less than that of the rest. I run dungeons just like any other player, not for the tokens, but for the fact I have fun there, and it’s effective leveling for new characters.

All those can be added to the wallet. And why should they have a use only on those zones? I doubt you will ever see anything new released that will require geodes or bandit crests, but why not? Why not keep those currencies relevant and make them more important altogether?

Why add them? If they added every item-based “currency” to the wallet, it’d be more bloated than the fattest person in the world (wasnt it something like 1102 lbs or so?) before long. That’s why they never did that, and likely never will. Dungeons are the only exception because those are persistent content, and why things like festival tokens were NOT added, even if the same temporary content repeats year after year.

maddoctor.2738:

Why can’t we use Geodes outside Dry Top? Bandit Crests outside Silverwastes? I doubt we will use those in Heart of Thorns, HoT will use their own new Currencies. Why?

I would be already happy if they would become real currencies in the wallet like dungeon tokens. Then I wouldn’t care if they would add new currencies for every area.

But as long as I have to stack them in my bank I hate them, and I hate them more, the more of them get introduced. 10 stacks Bandit Crests (and with prices up to 1200 crests, 2500 saved ones isn’t that much), 5 stacks Geodes, … Reminds me of the times where I had 30 stacks of BoH’s in my bank. Luckily they are in the wallet now that I have 30k of them

I had an idea a while back that goes along with raid reward structure. Basically for a world boss like Triple Trouble, you would have a vendor selling ascended gear, and the currency would be from an existing dungeon. Say for example Twilight Arbor. The ascended gear would cost 1000 TA tokens per piece (or more). Additionally The TT wurm would drop a cache of TA tokens (maybe 200?). This would allow people to work towards ascended gear via two methods: classic dungeons, or new world bosses. It would also help solve the excess currency issue.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Why add them? If they added every item-based “currency” to the wallet, it’d be more bloated than the fattest person in the world (wasnt it something like 1102 lbs or so?) before long. That’s why they never did that, and likely never will. Dungeons are the only exception because those are persistent content, and why things like festival tokens were NOT added, even if the same temporary content repeats year after year.

How can you be sure? →

Lishtenbird.2814:

That is a completely different problem, which is (I am almost fully confident about it) has to do with the amount of UI/database coders vs. content designers. They simply need to rework the wallet to accept all past and new currencies, shifting old ones to the bottom, and the problem is fixed. But the game used to have a limited set of currencies in the database at wallet launch, and everything else was handled via trophy items in inventory; at some point, the content paradigm shifted, and we see more and more tokens (with a relevant problem of needing “many” tokens to drop as otherwise it doesn’t feel rewarding) – however, the system was not designed to handle them, and we’re stuck with hoarding them in the bank as a temporary solution (with vendor access to bank as a band-aid solution).

And how many (untradeable) currencies do we actually have? Like, 10 or something?

• Geode
• Bandit Keys
• Gauntlet Tickets
• Pristine Fractal Relic
• WvW Tournament Claim Ticket
• Black Lion Claim Ticket
• Black Lion Claim Ticket Scrap
• Bauble
• Bauble Bubble

And discontinued ones can be handled separately just like the Retired achievements.

• Captain’s Council Commendation
• Winter’s Weapon Claim Ticket
• Fused Weapon Claim Ticket
• Sclerite Weapon Claim Ticket
• Dragon’s Jade Claim Ticket
• Fortune Scrap.png Fortune Scrap
• Golden Fortune Scrap
• Race Track Voucher

I doubt it’s any issue regarding staffing levels. There are, obviously, freelancers that can be hired on an as-needed basis. Not to mention I doubt they dont have anyone familiar with databases either. It’s not like JS just conjures up numbers with magic (I’m well aware of the associated quote also).

I still don’t understand how adding in a cap will allow the devs to release new stuff to buy.

If they felt so inclined to release new items for the currencies we have now, then they can release new items.

“But they are worried that people will be able to buy them all in a day! So thats why they don’t bring in more uses for currencies we already have.”

That doesn’t even make sense. If they were worried about it, all they needed to do is A) increase the price of the item, B ) Time gate it in some fashion, or C) Lock the vendor/use for currency behind some mechanic or event (i.e. Balthazar temple karma vendor)

Although as a side note, If they were to release new uses the best way would be to ninja patch it in. Instead of making an announcment. Thats just me though…

pdavis.8031:

I still don’t understand how adding in a cap will allow the devs to release new stuff to buy.

If they felt so inclined to release new items for the currencies we have now, then they can release new items.

“But they are worried that people will be able to buy them all in a day! So thats why they don’t bring in more uses for currencies we already have.”

That doesn’t even make sense. If they were worried about it, all they needed to do is A) increase the price of the item, Time gate it in some fashion, or C) Lock the vendor/use for currency behind some mechanic or event (i.e. Balthazar temple karma vendor)

Although as a side note, If they were to release new uses the best way would be to ninja patch it in. Instead of making an announcment. Thats just me though…

its the pricing that is the main issue preventing it without a cap price it to low and old players can get it immediately price it to high and its a good level for old players but a ridiculous amount for new ones

pdavis.8031:

I still don’t understand how adding in a cap will allow the devs to release new stuff to buy.

If they felt so inclined to release new items for the currencies we have now, then they can release new items.

“But they are worried that people will be able to buy them all in a day! So thats why they don’t bring in more uses for currencies we already have.”

That doesn’t even make sense. If they were worried about it, all they needed to do is A) increase the price of the item, B ) Time gate it in some fashion, or C) Lock the vendor/use for currency behind some mechanic or event (i.e. Balthazar temple karma vendor)

Although as a side note, If they were to release new uses the best way would be to ninja patch it in. Instead of making an announcment. Thats just me though…

1) increasing price to accomodate people with large pre investment basically makes it go beyond good design for the content itself.
you would need 1million karma items for example
2)time gates suck
3)they need to be behing more than something like balthazar, any event should only last at the most a vcouple of hours.

they dont want people to get new stuff in a couple hours.

their are some solutions that can work around C) in other ways

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

its the pricing that is the main issue preventing it without a cap price it to low and old players can get it immediately price it to high and its a good level for old players but a ridiculous amount for new ones

I still fail to understand how it is a bad thing. If you spent tons of time in the game already, you go and get retroactively rewarded (unless there’s a minor time/content gate) and become happier since you don’t have to regrind the same old stuff. If you haven’t, the problem doesn’t exist for you in the first place.

Also concerning adding in currencies into the wallet, as JS would put it: “It’s not an elegant solution.”

It makes the wallet bigger than it needs to be and makes it feel bloated.
So instead, just remove the stack limit on those items. So instead of having multiple stacks of 250, you just have 1 stack. It clears up a bunch of bag space, but limits it to just 1 spot. So I could have 15,000 bandit crests, but it only takes 1 slot in my inventory.

Lishtenbird.2814:

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

its the pricing that is the main issue preventing it without a cap price it to low and old players can get it immediately price it to high and its a good level for old players but a ridiculous amount for new ones

I still fail to understand how it is a bad thing. If you spent tons of time in the game already, you go and get retroactively rewarded (unless there’s a minor time/content gate) and become happier since you don’t have to regrind the same old stuff. If you haven’t, the problem doesn’t exist for you in the first place.

if the game was just players from launch i would agree with you but it isn’t and ANET can’t just punish new players with unreasonable time frames that come with the cost of old players having the amount of whatever currency after playing for 2.5 years

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

Lishtenbird.2814:

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

its the pricing that is the main issue preventing it without a cap price it to low and old players can get it immediately price it to high and its a good level for old players but a ridiculous amount for new ones

I still fail to understand how it is a bad thing. If you spent tons of time in the game already, you go and get retroactively rewarded (unless there’s a minor time/content gate) and become happier since you don’t have to regrind the same old stuff. If you haven’t, the problem doesn’t exist for you in the first place.

if the game was just players from launch i would agree with you but it isn’t and ANET can’t just punish new players with unreasonable time frames that come with the cost of old players having the amount of whatever currency after playing for 2.5 years

Yeah I agree that making the price too high to cater to veterens with stacks of currency. It would cause newer players to feel that it was a grind to be able to get said items. (which than leads to threads about how grindy this game is, how Anet lied when they said there would be no grind, how unfair it all is, etc. etc. etc.) Although I did suggest it, it was AN option, and not the only one. But certainly pricing would be considered (as it is with any vendor item they introduce), but perhaps not the sole reason why new stuff isn’t being released.

pdavis.8031:

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

Lishtenbird.2814:

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

its the pricing that is the main issue preventing it without a cap price it to low and old players can get it immediately price it to high and its a good level for old players but a ridiculous amount for new ones

I still fail to understand how it is a bad thing. If you spent tons of time in the game already, you go and get retroactively rewarded (unless there’s a minor time/content gate) and become happier since you don’t have to regrind the same old stuff. If you haven’t, the problem doesn’t exist for you in the first place.

if the game was just players from launch i would agree with you but it isn’t and ANET can’t just punish new players with unreasonable time frames that come with the cost of old players having the amount of whatever currency after playing for 2.5 years

Yeah I agree that making the price too high to cater to veterens with stacks of currency. It would cause newer players to feel that it was a grind to be able to get said items. (which than leads to threads about how grindy this game is, how Anet lied when they said there would be no grind, how unfair it all is, etc. etc. etc.) Although I did suggest it, it was AN option, and not the only one. But certainly pricing would be considered (as it is with any vendor item they introduce), but perhaps not the sole reason why new stuff isn’t being released.

i think earlier in the thread someone mentioned that devs said it was one big factor of why

My biggest gripe with this suggestion is that it would force me to stop doing my activity, visit the vendor and dump my currencies regularly when I might just want to do the activity I like doing and have the currency build up for a rainy day when I need it.

I appreciate your idea but I am not a fan on a cap. Would much prefer that there are items to purchase with said currencies and potentially a way to convert currencies to other forms with some ratio of a conversion tax. The conversion tax could be fluid based on the number of units that ANet knows to exist. The real key is having items for purchase though that requires that currency. Take the bandit crests, to me the sink (example: dusty gear bag) works pretty well. Players can convert excess currency into a different object that might have value for them, the key is monitoring and making sure the items for purchase are of value to the player base.

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

pdavis.8031:

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

Lishtenbird.2814:

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

its the pricing that is the main issue preventing it without a cap price it to low and old players can get it immediately price it to high and its a good level for old players but a ridiculous amount for new ones

I still fail to understand how it is a bad thing. If you spent tons of time in the game already, you go and get retroactively rewarded (unless there’s a minor time/content gate) and become happier since you don’t have to regrind the same old stuff. If you haven’t, the problem doesn’t exist for you in the first place.

if the game was just players from launch i would agree with you but it isn’t and ANET can’t just punish new players with unreasonable time frames that come with the cost of old players having the amount of whatever currency after playing for 2.5 years

Yeah I agree that making the price too high to cater to veterens with stacks of currency. It would cause newer players to feel that it was a grind to be able to get said items. (which than leads to threads about how grindy this game is, how Anet lied when they said there would be no grind, how unfair it all is, etc. etc. etc.) Although I did suggest it, it was AN option, and not the only one. But certainly pricing would be considered (as it is with any vendor item they introduce), but perhaps not the sole reason why new stuff isn’t being released.

i think earlier in the thread someone mentioned that devs said it was one big factor of why

I think I saw that, but without a link or a quote I am going to disregard it. If anything it was something taken out of context.

But it seems silly to me that Anet cannot/will not release new currency sinks simply because some players would be able to get it right away.

TheGrimm.5624:

I appreciate your idea but I am not a fan on a cap. Would much prefer that there are items to purchase with said currencies and potentially a way to convert currencies to other forms with some ratio of a conversion tax. The conversion tax could be fluid based on the number of units that ANet knows to exist. The real key is having items for purchase though that requires that currency. Take the bandit crests, to me the sink (example: dusty gear bag) works pretty well. Players can convert excess currency into a different object that might have value for them, the key is monitoring and making sure the items for purchase are of value to the player base.

I love dusty gear bags!

I’ve gotten more than a few exotics through those things.

pdavis.8031:

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

Lishtenbird.2814:

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

its the pricing that is the main issue preventing it without a cap price it to low and old players can get it immediately price it to high and its a good level for old players but a ridiculous amount for new ones

I still fail to understand how it is a bad thing. If you spent tons of time in the game already, you go and get retroactively rewarded (unless there’s a minor time/content gate) and become happier since you don’t have to regrind the same old stuff. If you haven’t, the problem doesn’t exist for you in the first place.

if the game was just players from launch i would agree with you but it isn’t and ANET can’t just punish new players with unreasonable time frames that come with the cost of old players having the amount of whatever currency after playing for 2.5 years

Yeah I agree that making the price too high to cater to veterens with stacks of currency. It would cause newer players to feel that it was a grind to be able to get said items. (which than leads to threads about how grindy this game is, how Anet lied when they said there would be no grind, how unfair it all is, etc. etc. etc.) Although I did suggest it, it was AN option, and not the only one. But certainly pricing would be considered (as it is with any vendor item they introduce), but perhaps not the sole reason why new stuff isn’t being released.

My post simply stated that setting the price at a reasonable for beginners amount but letting the veterans get the rewards retroactively is completely fine. How could it’ve been screwed into “punish new players with unreasonable time frames”?

Basic reward for basic cost → achievable for beginners, easy for veterans. Prestigious reward for prestigious cost → end-game goal for beginners, achievable for veterans. Combine at proper proportions, make everyone happy. We already have cultural armour, Zenith → Pinnacle weapons and Hellfire/Vambrace skins working like that, and that’s fine.

pdavis.8031:

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

pdavis.8031:

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

Lishtenbird.2814:

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

its the pricing that is the main issue preventing it without a cap price it to low and old players can get it immediately price it to high and its a good level for old players but a ridiculous amount for new ones

I still fail to understand how it is a bad thing. If you spent tons of time in the game already, you go and get retroactively rewarded (unless there’s a minor time/content gate) and become happier since you don’t have to regrind the same old stuff. If you haven’t, the problem doesn’t exist for you in the first place.

if the game was just players from launch i would agree with you but it isn’t and ANET can’t just punish new players with unreasonable time frames that come with the cost of old players having the amount of whatever currency after playing for 2.5 years

Yeah I agree that making the price too high to cater to veterens with stacks of currency. It would cause newer players to feel that it was a grind to be able to get said items. (which than leads to threads about how grindy this game is, how Anet lied when they said there would be no grind, how unfair it all is, etc. etc. etc.) Although I did suggest it, it was AN option, and not the only one. But certainly pricing would be considered (as it is with any vendor item they introduce), but perhaps not the sole reason why new stuff isn’t being released.

i think earlier in the thread someone mentioned that devs said it was one big factor of why

I think I saw that, but without a link or a quote I am going to disregard it. If anything it was something taken out of context.

But it seems silly to me that Anet cannot/will not release new currency sinks simply because some players would be able to get it right away.

i have a feeling that the new player side is more of the reason that they view it as a problem than the vets buying everything at once IMO of course

ya wish he/she had a link with that comment too

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

they can add new stuff to the rewards without having to worry about the old players being able to get everything all at once without having to work at it at all

The thing is, they already worked for it and earned it. They can buy the stuff because they spent the time to get the currency already. Saying that they can buy new stuff with no effort is completely asinine.

I think that this suggestion is nonsensical. Anet could easily implement new rewards using old currency, they just choose not to. All that putting a cap on currencies is going to do is disincentivise people from doing old content because they will get literally nothing from it since they bought all of the rewards and caped the currency.

Fermi.2409:

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

they can add new stuff to the rewards without having to worry about the old players being able to get everything all at once without having to work at it at all

The thing is, they already worked for it and earned it. They can buy the stuff because they spent the time to get the currency already. Saying that they can buy new stuff with no effort is completely asinine.

I think that this suggestion is nonsensical. Anet could easily implement new rewards using old currency, they just choose not to. All that putting a cap on currencies is going to do is disincentivise people from doing old content because they will get literally nothing from it since they bought all of the rewards and caped the currency.

again i think the problem lies more in the new players would have to work more than a reasonable time frame to get items priced for the old players currency level

maddoctor.2738:

Simple. Without a cap, they can’t add new items for a particular currency because old players will be overflowing with it. So, they’d rather add a new currency on every map (so all players start at the same place), rather than use the existing ones. Why do you think they don’t use dungeon tokens for new items anymore?

However, currency cap doesn’t alter the fact that players would still be able to get everything day one. You can’t make the new items cost more than the cap, not in any way that wouldn’t promote insane grinding anyways (such as, you get 1/10th of the item for the currency cap, then need to combine 10 pieces and you get the item.)

So if new items aren’t added because some players would be able to get them day one, a currency cap wouldn’t alter that. Unless you want to make it a gear(skin) treadmill.

maddoctor.2738:

Also, an artificial cap has the potential to hinder everyone who casually play the game, hoarder or not. As long as you get some of that currency every once in a while without using it, you’re running a risk of being forced to
A) Lose potential gains
B) Get something you weren’t planning to
C) Find another area with a currency you don’t have maxed out.
I just don’t find that desirable.

How is it hurting someone who is not a hoarder? If you spend it already then it won’t be any different

I suppose this would depend on the definition of “hoarder”. To me, a hoarder is someone who intentionally gathers insane amounts of stuff and refuses to let go.
Not a player who just plays perfectly normally until they notice that they hit some magical limit, and still don’t want to spend stuff because there isn’t any item they’d like to fill their bank with at that time.

Fred Fargone.3127:

maddoctor.2738:

Simple. Without a cap, they can’t add new items for a particular currency because old players will be overflowing with it. So, they’d rather add a new currency on every map (so all players start at the same place), rather than use the existing ones. Why do you think they don’t use dungeon tokens for new items anymore?

However, currency cap doesn’t alter the fact that players would still be able to get everything day one. You can’t make the new items cost more than the cap, not in any way that wouldn’t promote insane grinding anyways (such as, you get 1/10th of the item for the currency cap, then need to combine 10 pieces and you get the item.)

So if new items aren’t added because some players would be able to get them day one, a currency cap wouldn’t alter that. Unless you want to make it a gear(skin) treadmill.

maddoctor.2738:

Also, an artificial cap has the potential to hinder everyone who casually play the game, hoarder or not. As long as you get some of that currency every once in a while without using it, you’re running a risk of being forced to
A) Lose potential gains
B) Get something you weren’t planning to
C) Find another area with a currency you don’t have maxed out.
I just don’t find that desirable.

How is it hurting someone who is not a hoarder? If you spend it already then it won’t be any different

I suppose this would depend on the definition of “hoarder”. To me, a hoarder is someone who intentionally gathers insane amounts of stuff and refuses to let go.
Not a player who just plays perfectly normally until they notice that they hit some magical limit, and still don’t want to spend stuff because there isn’t any item they’d like to fill their bank with at that time.

i think what you said would occur if they only released one new item at a time per currency (unlikely if they were to add stuff)

say the cap on a currency is 250 tokens anet releases 3 new items cost 100 tokens each a vet will have to work a bit for the last one and new players have an obtainable goal to get the new items

phys.7689:

the point is, it actually does stop them from making new items, designer at anet have mentioned it. Its why they constantly create new currencies.

They dont want people to be able to get things day one, so they dont release new uses for many of these currencies.

If that is true then that’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.

What is next? A cap on how many Tomes of Knowledge you can get because Anet doesn’t want us to have a lvl 80 Revenant on day one of HoT?

How about a cap on gems so we can’t get that awesome new backpiece item from the gemstore on day one? Shouldn’t they do that too?

How about capping gold so people won’t be able to craft, sell and buy HoT legendaries on day one? Seems like a legit idea right?

Why can’t Anet just let us play how we want instead of how they want us to play? This is so stupid.

Old players being able to instantly buy new rewards is fine: that’s the benefit of being an old player and having played enough to have that much currency.

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

Fermi.2409:

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

they can add new stuff to the rewards without having to worry about the old players being able to get everything all at once without having to work at it at all

The thing is, they already worked for it and earned it. They can buy the stuff because they spent the time to get the currency already. Saying that they can buy new stuff with no effort is completely asinine.

I think that this suggestion is nonsensical. Anet could easily implement new rewards using old currency, they just choose not to. All that putting a cap on currencies is going to do is disincentivise people from doing old content because they will get literally nothing from it since they bought all of the rewards and caped the currency.

again i think the problem lies more in the new players would have to work more than a reasonable time frame to get items priced for the old players currency level

So price it somewhere that it’ll take a reasonable amount of time to earn from scratch and don’t worry about the older players. They already put in the time to earn whatever currency is needed.

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

say the cap on a currency is 250 tokens anet releases 3 new items cost 100 tokens each a vet will have to work a bit for the last one and new players have an obtainable goal to get the new items

Well, the way I see it, if we’re…
…talking about currencies with low caps and cheap items, vets and newbies will have them on day 1 regardless of whether the cap existed or not, even if they started from 0. (Unless there is also an earnings cap. Which is even more artificial and annoying.)
…talking about currencies with high caps and expensive items, you’ll get pointless grind for the items, especially hurting the newbies.
(Which would be totally hideous if you combined it with earnings cap)

And while there is some middle ground that is slightly better than either of the given examples, a currency cap is still an annoying mechanism that to me, would seem to punish me if I’m not actively seeking to fill my bank with useless junk.

I believe they should not cap currencies because a big idea in MMO’s is that the player accumulates resources.

They should continue to introduce new currencies for new events like SW so no one can buy the new armor set straight off. But also introduce an extra account wallet for all the new currencies that come along, so things like Bandit crests, Queens Gauntlet tickets, SAB tokens etc don’t swamp the character inventory and account bank.

There also need to be more ways to spend old currencies such as Karma. That currency reflects badly, makes it look like Anet introduce and abandon currencies and lack inspiration or interest in making them relevant to veteran players. When people have invested time playing and earning a currency, it should feel like it was a reasonably rewarding experience.

Kedarrian.2905:

I believe they should not cap currencies because a big idea in MMO’s is that the player accumulates resources.

They should continue to introduce new currencies for new events like SW so no one can buy the new armor set straight off. But also introduce an extra account wallet for all the new currencies that come along, so things like Bandit crests, Queens Gauntlet tickets, SAB tokens etc don’t swamp the character inventory and account bank.

There also need to be more ways to spend old currencies such as Karma. That currency reflects badly, makes it look like Anet introduce and abandon currencies and lack inspiration or interest in making them relevant to veteran players. When people have invested time playing and earning a currency, it should feel like it was a reasonably rewarding experience.

The reason I proposed the cap is to prevent having new currencies with every new release. The reason we can’t use Karma to buy Carapace armor and they had to introduce the Crests is BECAUSE there is a problem with the current currencies and the difference between old and new players. A cap would make this difference non-existent and allow us to get everything they might add using Karma.

I guess if people are content with having to deal with a new currency after each release and overflowing with useless currencies that they will never use, then there is no reason for this cap to exist. If however we want to make all currencies equally important and future-proof then something needs to be done, and a cap is a way to address this (there might be other solutions to this problem too)

Kedarrian.2905:

I believe they should not cap currencies because a big idea in MMO’s is that the player accumulates resources.

They should continue to introduce new currencies for new events like SW so no one can buy the new armor set straight off. But also introduce an extra account wallet for all the new currencies that come along, so things like Bandit crests, Queens Gauntlet tickets, SAB tokens etc don’t swamp the character inventory and account bank.

There also need to be more ways to spend old currencies such as Karma. That currency reflects badly, makes it look like Anet introduce and abandon currencies and lack inspiration or interest in making them relevant to veteran players. When people have invested time playing and earning a currency, it should feel like it was a reasonably rewarding experience.

I understand that Anet probably wants new currencies and ingredients in your inventory to encourage buying inventory space. But how about only having a certain number in inventory? After introducing a new currency, move the oldest one still in inventory to the wallet or ingredient storage. Although I think they might already be doing this since Halloween and snowflakes have been moved to ingredient storage.

I completely agree with your comments on Karma.

maddoctor.2738:

Why can’t we use Geodes outside Dry Top? Bandit Crests outside Silverwastes? I doubt we will use those in Heart of Thorns, HoT will use their own new Currencies. Why?

Why cant se use AC tokens outside AC? CM tokens outside CM? Dungeon tokens outside dungeons? Why?

Vukorep.3081:

maddoctor.2738:

Why can’t we use Geodes outside Dry Top? Bandit Crests outside Silverwastes? I doubt we will use those in Heart of Thorns, HoT will use their own new Currencies. Why?

Why cant se use AC tokens outside AC? CM tokens outside CM? Dungeon tokens outside dungeons? Why?

Geodes and Bandit Crests could both be replaced by karma. A universal non-gold currency that is used on all other open world maps in the game.

maddoctor.2738:

The reason I proposed the cap is to prevent having new currencies with every new release. The reason we can’t use Karma to buy Carapace armor and they had to introduce the Crests is BECAUSE there is a problem with the current currencies and the difference between old and new players. A cap would make this difference non-existent and allow us to get everything they might add using Karma.

I totally get what you are saying. I’m not pushing for a scenario where Karma can be used for Carapace armor etc. They will always need to reset from scratch with a new currency in new zones such in SW. We cant’t have a scenario where a person steps foot in SW for the first time, already possessing a (capped) stack of the zone currency. Everyone needs to start from the same place by which the only way they have currency is by doing the specific new events.

maddoctor.2738:

Vukorep.3081:

maddoctor.2738:

Why can’t we use Geodes outside Dry Top? Bandit Crests outside Silverwastes? I doubt we will use those in Heart of Thorns, HoT will use their own new Currencies. Why?

Why cant se use AC tokens outside AC? CM tokens outside CM? Dungeon tokens outside dungeons? Why?

Geodes and Bandit Crests could both be replaced by karma. A universal non-gold currency that is used on all other open world maps in the game.

The problem with that is that then you have very little incentive to explore a new area, or, conversely, to replay old ones.

Let’s say that, hypothetically, all the crests, geodes, etc, are replaced with karma and there’s a cap put in place. Items are rebalanced, and all that.

Now a patch comes along with a new area with new items. First of all, anyone not new to the game that week can instantly go and get at least one new item because they knew the patch was coming and went and capped their karma. Even with an array of items, without an additional gating mechanism, players aren’t stupid. They’ll stockpile in advance so they can get the new stuff first.

And then, you have the problem that even if you put exclusive rewards in each area, the players don’t actually have to play that area to get them. They can just explore, get the waypoints, and then just port to the merchant and farm their karma elsewhere. Making the new zone more profitable doesn’t fix the issue because then it just becomes a designated farming zone and players abandon other areas of the game.

The reason for all the different currencies isn’t just to avoid the stockpile issue. It’s because it keeps players active in different areas of the map. If you have a universal currency you get areas which will be devoid of players because there’s no point playing them. As the system stands, if you want the Dry Top rewards you have to play in Dry Top. Same for crests.

The only problem, as has been mentioned, is the issue of bank space with stacks of all the different currencies. And that could be fixed by making the wallet have two tabs. One for general currencies such as gold, karma, and dungeon tokens, so that they can all be displayed with ease, and then an additional tab for open world currencies, with, as one poster suggested, new currencies pushing older ones further down.

It’s not perfect, but a cap won’t fix all the problems either. It will simply bring along different ones.

I don’t see why this is something that needs to be “fixed”. As long as they actually put currencies in the wallet (which they should) then I don’t see what difference it makes if everything uses 1 currency or they introduce a thousand different ones. Heck, I actually think it adds a bit of flavor to the zones if they have their own currency, thus requiring you to actually play in that specific zone in order to get rewards from that specific zone.

cant anyone see that anet went for special rewards found in special zones that you can get by only participating in those zones in order to gain special currency for the same special zones?

If it was karma or plain gold the zones would have half as much activity…

All of the hoardable currencies can be turned into gold.

The devs don’t want to reward token/karma/currency grinds heavily anyway.

If I’m capped on some currency, I’ll just convert it into another currency. How does this solve anything exactly?