Guild Wars 2

TheGrimm.5624:

Have to disagree, if anything I would like to see additional F&N options as well as other categories of consumables. Anytime you are able to allow people to further customize their characters with options that are interesting and of value you extend game play as people can try content one way and then re-try content with an altered character. In that light more categories of consumables would further options for customization. Now another aspect to this is that consumables are also a trade line that helps the game rotate funds and items in and out of the game as their resources need to be refreshed since once used are gone. To crafters and traders that makes those lines of some additional interest over others potentially.
2 cents, good hunting!

Adding more options will do nothing because food/potions currently provide standard stat boosts just like any other piece of equipment. With the current design, there will always be 1 BiS food/potion type for each type of content (PvE,WvW,PVP, etc.).

This is why I think food/potions should not directly buff any stats and should instead be used to customize HOW you play not how much damage you can deal/take.

More gear slots is not “better”… it’s just more gear slots.

-Is it really adding to your overall experience?
Yes

-Does it make things too easy?
No

-Do I always use it? Why?
Yes. Because it adds a customized bonus – mf when im farming, power/toughness when needed. And I like the idea that its a CONSUMABLE. Not everything in a game is about efficiency, you know. The fact that I to gather materials and cook them by myself adds to the role play and immersion.

-Do I usually win 1v1 fights against those who don’t use it?
I dont know. Who cares.

-Do I craft my own for fun? Or just buy it off the TP?
I craft my own for fun.

-Do I offer it to other people when I see them without it? Why?
No. Its not my prerogative to tell how other people how to play their game.

UnitedChaos.8364:

mcarswell.3768:

sure, why don’t we dumb the game down even more. how about removing traits also?

UnitedChaos.8364:

-Increases balance in WvW.
(Since F&N isn’t a requirement not every body uses it. For example, you come across a player who is using F&N while you aren’t. Your defeat usually is quick and painless.)

If you’re losing 1v1 to a player using food and you’re not, it’s not because of the food. That player obviously cares about maximizing his performance while you obviously don’t, which probably carries over to other aspects of your gameplay.

Skill is a major factor, I 100% agree.

Let’s delve deeper. If there was a 1v1 between two players, same class, same build, equal experience; but one uses F&N. We both agree that the F&N user would win, correct? So does double clicking an item makes that player better? I don’t feel that is very skillful.

imo, clicking the right item is a skillful choice, in the same way that selecting the right traits for a build is a skillful choice.

in your scenario assuming 2 equally geared, equally skilled players, both with power builds for example, let’s say one chooses to use sharpening stones and truffle steak, and the other uses tuning crystals and veggie pizza. the 2nd guy is using F&N that doesn’t complement his build, and therefore is at a disadvantage because of an uninformed or inexperienced choice.

i consider food part of a build, just like armor and traits, and i appreciate the extra level of depth it gives to maximizing my characters’ potential.

Great, take the one rather fun crafting discpline.

And really, for what gain? Shallower gameplay?
Food, water, nourishment, these are staples of roleplaying gameplay. As is items giving you pros or cons, and most important consumables giving you beneficial effects. Again, this is entirely normal for RPGs. It’d be weird not to have it, hell, it is weird in games which don’t have it.

mtpelion.4562:

Adding more options will do nothing because food/potions currently provide standard stat boosts just like any other piece of equipment. With the current design, there will always be 1 BiS food/potion type for each type of content (PvE,WvW,PVP, etc.).

This is why I think food/potions should not directly buff any stats and should instead be used to customize HOW you play not how much damage you can deal/take.

More gear slots is not “better”… it’s just more gear slots.

I aggre with part of the global intention of that. True that more gear = just more gear slots. But that,s only in PvE. In PvE, you have 5 kinds of gear. Direct Damage stats (power, precision, ferocity), condition stats (condition damage, condition duration, precision), surviability (toughness vitality) and support (healing power). Condition is broken in PvE group play and healing power scale so badly that its pretty much useless. That leave us with surviablity and direct damage. One is the good options and the other one is only for learning or casual player. Which mean that there will always be a BiS gear that is Zerker. But that doesn’t work that way in PvP. In PvP you need to balance between direct dmg, condition, surviability and healing power. This get a bit restricted in sPvP when you choose you amulet and trait. I like to have these 6 armor + 6 trinket to make the best mix of stats i can. At this point, more piece would give us nothing more, but I still feel limited in sPvP.

You point is even worst for F&N. There is no BiS like zerker work in PvE. Ya there is some best option, but it depend on a lot of factor. Will i choose Lemongrass to go with my Melandru runes and almost be immune to condition? Or i’ll choose less dmg when stun again the guys that run a Hammer train. Will I choose dps food to burst down my opponent on my thief? Or i’ll get some Omnomberry compote to keep my hp high in a massive ZvsZ. F&N don’t just bring stats, they bring a lot of stuff that you can’t get from nowhere else or with difficulty.

I agree that F&N shouldn’t focus too much on standard stats, but be more influencial of your gameplay. But i think they already do that (maybe not enough), and i’ll push this farther and say that they need that on gear too. I would like to the kind of stuff you can get from food on gear (and not something stupid like the 1% condition duration to replace 100 stats points like we see now) in a meaningful way. That way, Zerker would not be the only option.

I love GW2 and I’m really not about getting back to the holy trinity. But I would still like more variety in gear. I would like to see a condition player have a role in a PvE group with condition duration allowing him to give weakness and vulnerability to support the group, I would like a might duration gear for a might stacking character, i would like boons duration gear for more protection, vigor and other good boons. Right now, we pretty much have only 2 good choice. DPS and Support. I’m ok with that, but gear only affect DPS, not really support (at least the good kind of support).

A weird part of me would like to keep the food crafting around purely as a flavor (if you’ll pardon the pun) craft set, though having its mechanical benefits severely reduced to removed. Also, maybe reduce the ingredients price.

From there, let’s add drink mixes and the ability to personalize recipes!

Also, another, semi-important, thing with cooking crafting though is the ability to create dyes.

Does that mean they should remove the cooking craft as well.

Don’t use food if you don’t like it but please DO NOT Deprive others. If people want to use food to enhance their experience or help them…its THEIR RIGHT

UnitedChaos.8364:

Zalyn.9534:

UnitedChaos.8364:

Zalyn.9534:

I like the added customizability of F&N buffs; I find that I use different foods situationally depending on an anticipated encounter, and it’s nice using one that has a radius so I can support others in the group.

I also really like the Cooking discipline; it is the most realistic one I’ve found so far, and it is a great deal of fun to do. I find that I’m spurred to explore more just to find ingredients, so it gives great potential to enhance gameplay. But, as a luxury discipline, it takes more money and effort to do it, so it’s fair that it produces some consumables that are desirable for others to be marketable. However, the fact that F&N is not required is a fair compromise away from the “hard core requirement” to always have it.

My main problem, as with most of the crafting, is that people level up so quickly that the midrange items just aren’t really useful in themselves if you want to make money, so there is pressure to barrel through to max level if moneymaking is your goal.

But -
-Is it really adding to your overall experience?
-Does it make things too easy?
-Do I always use it? Why?
-Do I usually win 1v1 fights against those who don’t use it?
-Do I craft my own for fun? Or just buy it off the TP?
-Do I offer it to other people when I see them without it? Why?

Hey, you just asked us to keep those questions in mind, not put them in our post. I did keep them in mind, if you read my comment for comprehension. Why don’t you put up a poll if you want specific questions, and only those answered?

1. My entire comment points to it adding to my overall experience. But that question is kind of irrelevant to justify any one game feature.

2. No, it doesn’t make things too easy. I leveled to 80 without trying or ever staying at level in about two weeks just by organically following stories and events. I’m old school and enjoy the journey of leveling – WoW was much harder. I also solo most content; when there is more than one person on “group” events, they are frankly too easy. That has nothing to do with F&N. Red herring.

3. I pretty much always eat food because I’m leveling up cooking and need to free up inventory space. As I mentioned in my post, most foods aren’t very marketable for a reasonable profit unless you get to high end stuff. So I get to eat a lot of my own cooking (much like RL – I’m an amateur chef).

4. I don’t PvP. Irrelevant.

5. This question doesn’t make sense – you imply a comparison between “crafting for fun” and “buying off the TP.” Yes, I craft “for fun” (I play this game “for fun”) and I don’t buy any premade food off the TP. I do buy some rare ingredients from the TP, which stimulates the economy, and I sometimes sell components (which can’t go in collections and take up inventory), also stimulating the economy.

6. I don’t group much, so I don’t do this. If I were grouping with someone and had a stack of food, of course I would offer. But I don’t see what this question has to do with your issues with the F&N feature.

There, have I now justified the existence of F&N adequately to you in precisely the format that you want since you aren’t open to reading about people’s experiences in more than 140 characters?

I was just looking for more information from you to further see your side. Try not to take so much offense to such a simple request. As I said to the other, I’ll try not to have an opinion anymore.

No offense but the fact you are being so passive aggressive about it makes you lose credibility.

Don’t use consumables if you don’t them but dont try to force how you play on others. Its that simple.

Elric.6971:

A weird part of me would like to keep the food crafting around purely as a flavor (if you’ll pardon the pun) craft set, though having its mechanical benefits severely reduced to removed. Also, maybe reduce the ingredients price.

From there, let’s add drink mixes and the ability to personalize recipes!

Also, another, semi-important, thing with cooking crafting though is the ability to create dyes.

Drink mixes would be awesome! But I find the dye recipes boring.

Maybe we need a mixologist craft – making drinks (alcoholic, buffing) and potions.

So basically, this whole concept of removing food buffs, appears to be around a feeling of they are naggy and costly??? For those that aren’t using them, you are wasting the time of every other player you are running with. Any food is an improvement and tray’s last an hr long. If you can’t click on something once an hr, it’s not a game design issue.

No thanks. I like consumables and the little extra customization they allow: a zerg pvt warrior may go for the regeneration food while a burst one just tries to maximize his damage through the power & crit dmg soup.

The condi duration ones could use a small nerf though.

Zalyn.9534:

Elric.6971:

A weird part of me would like to keep the food crafting around purely as a flavor (if you’ll pardon the pun) craft set, though having its mechanical benefits severely reduced to removed. Also, maybe reduce the ingredients price.

From there, let’s add drink mixes and the ability to personalize recipes!

Also, another, semi-important, thing with cooking crafting though is the ability to create dyes.

Drink mixes would be awesome! But I find the dye recipes boring.

Maybe we need a mixologist craft – making drinks (alcoholic, buffing) and potions.

Alchemist crafting! Make environmental weapons (like acid flasks), ammo for certain intractables like catapults, and all those others things you THINK Alchmeist engies should be able to do!

Also, mix a fine drink.

Harper.4173:

Food does not prevent you from having fun.

No, it doesn’t. But I didn’t say that it did.

The idea that ArenaNet presented when they talked about having fun, instead of preparing to have fun, was that they were trying to avoid these kind of checklist items that MMORPGs often have that put emphasis on preparation. They didn’t want the usual MMORPG scenario where a group gathers together to do a dungeon or other activity and they have to go through checking to make sure the healers are stocked up on mana potions, the tank needs his elixirs of immovable object, only to get to the dungeon entrance and have the DPS say, “Wait a minute guys, give me a half hour to go collect some crystals of blasting so I can craft up more Matrices of Nuclear Armageddon!”

Then again, I think that was a design principle from pretty early on… a good couple of years before launch, so I suppose we can just dismiss it as one of those “they changed their mind” kinda things.

At any rate, I don’t see consumables adding enough depth to this game to warrant the minor tedium they require. The one positive thing about them is that they give something for crafters to keep doing in a market where a lot of the player base has the gear they need. Even that’s a little iffy, as many consumables aren’t worth the cost of the materials to make them. Sometimes its just better to sell the mats and buy the con.

or..if they want.. make WvW more like PVP, in that, you cant use nourishments and your gear doesnt matter.
There, easier to balance and no worries of pve tweaks affecting pvp play.

mcarswell.3768:

sure, why don’t we dumb the game down even more. how about removing traits also?

UnitedChaos.8364:

-Increases balance in WvW.
(Since F&N isn’t a requirement not every body uses it. For example, you come across a player who is using F&N while you aren’t. Your defeat usually is quick and painless.)

If you’re losing 1v1 to a player using food and you’re not, it’s not because of the food. That player obviously cares about maximizing his performance while you obviously don’t, which probably carries over to other aspects of your gameplay.

i guess an increased crit damage percentage vs someone who doesn’t have food buffs has nothing to do with it. I don’t use it for combat advantages in wvw for personal reasons. i feel that it is a handicap. just like i feel ‘guard stacks’ are a handicap. some builds are built yes, built around this. it’s kind of insulting really. maybe this is must my pride speaking.

Gibson.4036:

Harper.4173:

Food does not prevent you from having fun.

No, it doesn’t. But I didn’t say that it did.

The idea that ArenaNet presented when they talked about having fun, instead of preparing to have fun, was that they were trying to avoid these kind of checklist items that MMORPGs often have that put emphasis on preparation. They didn’t want the usual MMORPG scenario where a group gathers together to do a dungeon or other activity and they have to go through checking to make sure the healers are stocked up on mana potions, the tank needs his elixirs of immovable object, only to get to the dungeon entrance and have the DPS say, “Wait a minute guys, give me a half hour to go collect some crystals of blasting so I can craft up more Matrices of Nuclear Armageddon!”

Then again, I think that was a design principle from pretty early on… a good couple of years before launch, so I suppose we can just dismiss it as one of those “they changed their mind” kinda things.

At any rate, I don’t see consumables adding enough depth to this game to warrant the minor tedium they require. The one positive thing about them is that they give something for crafters to keep doing in a market where a lot of the player base has the gear they need. Even that’s a little iffy, as many consumables aren’t worth the cost of the materials to make them. Sometimes its just better to sell the mats and buy the con.

How exactly does what you’ve described above compare to what we have in the game now?
You want food or some cons for your run – it takes you 10 seconds to get it off the TP. Where’s the hassle?

How many groups have you been in where you’ve been required to have a certain F&N set-up. I think this problem is largely made-up.
No offense but I can’t remember the last time a pug run requested I had specific food. You can just buy a ton of it at one point and then use it whenever you feel like it/need it.

Again, I hope you realize that saying that F&N in this game is holding back players from engaging in content immediately and making the game worse is rather …skewed.

mcarswell.3768:

sure, why don’t we dumb the game down even more. how about removing traits also?

UnitedChaos.8364:

-Increases balance in WvW.
(Since F&N isn’t a requirement not every body uses it. For example, you come across a player who is using F&N while you aren’t. Your defeat usually is quick and painless.)

If you’re losing 1v1 to a player using food and you’re not, it’s not because of the food. That player obviously cares about maximizing his performance while you obviously don’t, which probably carries over to other aspects of your gameplay.

Isn’t this the same as you losing 1v1 to a player that has 5 stacks of WvW buffs, and 25 stacks of kill sigils? If you don’t have either of those, then you aren’t maximizing your performance in WvW either. Food is only part of the equation.

-Is it really adding to your overall experience? Yes
-Does it make things too easy? No
-Do I always use it? Why? Yes, because it’s available to me and there’s no reason to hinder myself by making myself hit less damage.
-Do I usually win 1v1 fights against those who don’t use it? I don’t normally WvW to begin with but the impact of food/nourishment is negligible by comparison to the skills used in my rotation/my active defenses.
-Do I craft my own for fun? Or just buy it off the TP? Buy off the tp. There’s no fun in the crafting system because it’s not actually crafting. It’s just a GUI that spits out stuff.
-Do I offer it to other people when I see them without it? Why? Yes, because it’s painful to see teammates that aren’t making use of them… so painful. I can’t stand the inefficiency.

UnitedChaos.8364:

mcarswell.3768:

sure, why don’t we dumb the game down even more. how about removing traits also?

UnitedChaos.8364:

-Increases balance in WvW.
(Since F&N isn’t a requirement not every body uses it. For example, you come across a player who is using F&N while you aren’t. Your defeat usually is quick and painless.)

If you’re losing 1v1 to a player using food and you’re not, it’s not because of the food. That player obviously cares about maximizing his performance while you obviously don’t, which probably carries over to other aspects of your gameplay.

Skill is a major factor, I 100% agree.

Let’s delve deeper. If there was a 1v1 between two players, same class, same build, equal experience; but one uses F&N. We both agree that the F&N user would win, correct? So does double clicking an item makes that player better? I don’t feel that is very skillful.

Preparation IS skill, and the unprepared player deserves the loss.

No, I think Food and Nourishment should stay.

BUT… The game should never be designed with the bonuses from consumables factored in (i.e. the devs should never make it so that you’re expected to use consumables to win a fight or complete content).

-Is it really adding to your overall experience?

Yes. I find I enjoy going through my “pantry” to find what food works best with each of my characters, and tailoring that to what I’m going to be doing- just like some people like fine tuning the stats on their armor and weapons using sigils and runes. I’d argue that F&N is better for that, because you aren’t locked into a build.

Does it make things too easy?

No. It did add to my ability to get to L80 smoothly, without having to spend every waking moment playing.

-Do I always use it? Why?
Pretty much always, because of the added boosts, the ability to improve something on the fly, and customize my bonuses to the content in front of me.

-Do I usually win 1v1 fights against those who don’t use it?

I don’t PvP, so I wouldn’t know.

-Do I craft my own for fun? Or just buy it off the TP?

I craft my own for fun. Cooking is the only crafting that I find enjoyable and dynamic. All the other crafting diciplines are extrememly linear and level-oriented: you make the same type of things each level, just out of fancier materials, and the lower level materials become useless to you as you advance. With cooking you have real discovery based on putting random ingredients from many different levels together.

-Do I offer it to other people when I see them without it? Why?
I have often made up a bunch of food and then handed it out randomly to people, or run around LA offering pies and treats, because I like randomly gifting things. If they don’t want to use it, that’s up to them.

Food is a tool, just like runes or sigils or higher-statted weapons and armor; people can chose use the resources they have available to them, or not. Saying that a tool should be removed from the game because some people use it, and some don’t, and it gives the users an advantage, that pretty much negates the idea of having any sort of player-customizeable tools at all.

Eleri Tezhme.3048:

-Is it really adding to your overall experience?

Yes. I find I enjoy going through my “pantry” to find what food works best with each of my characters, and tailoring that to what I’m going to be doing- just like some people like fine tuning the stats on their armor and weapons using sigils and runes. I’d argue that F&N is better for that, because you aren’t locked into a build.

Does it make things too easy?

No. It did add to my ability to get to L80 smoothly, without having to spend every waking moment playing.

-Do I always use it? Why?
Pretty much always, because of the added boosts, the ability to improve something on the fly, and customize my bonuses to the content in front of me.

-Do I usually win 1v1 fights against those who don’t use it?

I don’t PvP, so I wouldn’t know.

-Do I craft my own for fun? Or just buy it off the TP?

I craft my own for fun. Cooking is the only crafting that I find enjoyable and dynamic. All the other crafting diciplines are extrememly linear and level-oriented: you make the same type of things each level, just out of fancier materials, and the lower level materials become useless to you as you advance. With cooking you have real discovery based on putting random ingredients from many different levels together.

-Do I offer it to other people when I see them without it? Why?
I have often made up a bunch of food and then handed it out randomly to people, or run around LA offering pies and treats, because I like randomly gifting things. If they don’t want to use it, that’s up to them.

Food is a tool, just like runes or sigils or higher-statted weapons and armor; people can chose use the resources they have available to them, or not. Saying that a tool should be removed from the game because some people use it, and some don’t, and it gives the users an advantage, that pretty much negates the idea of having any sort of player-customizeable tools at all.

I agree with OP. Consumables should be used for aesthetic reasons, not for buffs, and we should be able to use it in combat, pvp, etc.

Remove an entire crafting discipline, and 1/3 of the nodes, and all the tools (including the gem store tools). That’s a big change.

The condition duration/reduction foods are over-rated. 40% duration only helps if it isn’t cleansed, and realistically how many conditions run their full duration?

UnitedChaos.8364:

tigirius.9014:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I disagree. Nourishment and potions are amazing for more than just endgame. Proper use improve the leveling experience as well. Getting rid of them just because you think it trivializes content (I’ve never seen this actually) at the expense of losing this incredibly useful feature of foods and potions seems to me to be a bad idea. Why have more grind?

I agree. Not sure why this would be viewed as a good idea unless the OP would also like them to remove all stats from gear entirely because that’s essentially what his logic requires when taken a step further. If you want to do that to improve the game remove all stats because stats give an artificial boost to only certain players who have them so why not, it would make the game all about skins 100% and people wouldn’t need stats on gear to progress. While we’re at it remove all sigils, boons, and runes. Who needs them right? They are just in the way and only causes problems for the players who can’t afford them, do people need to make them or buy them? Are they making them to make the game easier? Why have sigils/runes/stats on gear at all? Will it improve the game without them?

The next logical step you see in the line of reasoning.

Understandable.

I guess I just feel forced to use it, rather than want to; and this feeling doesn’t sit well with me. What may seem like a strategical use of items and timing to me feels just like “kill faster with food”.

Well you know I thought about it and I actually support the logical progression.

Take all stats away from gear, adjust all players to have the stats they need per level in scores and character.

They can make more special effects from runes, improve them all, add 25% run speed to most of them like they should on the superior.

And change food so that there would be changes to the spells if people eat certain kinds of max level food similar to what we find in the systems like card games and D3 where you eat something and it changes the behavior of a skill dramatically.

This would totally make people rely on skill and as a bonus it would force Anet to branch off some of their 300 people into the field of cosmetics and we’d see a flood of cosmetic items enter the game like no other time in history.

People already rely on skill only. Food merely augments it. This entire thread seems pointless as a suggestion, and that’s furthered by the fact the OP got a lot of facts outright wrong.

UnitedChaos.8364:

This is a great alternative!

This is why I created this topic.

But it seems I have merely offended half of the topic participants, ha.

Well, the only thing I find offensive isn’t your opinion or sentiment exactly.

What bothers me, is most of these types of threads want the addition/subtraction of content viewed through the lens of mechanical game-play function, and almost NEVER through the lens of immersion, lore, or justification of existence in a ‘virtual world’.

It marks in my mind the all but death of the RPG genre.

I can actually illustrate that better by reminding you that this is a world with imaginary sentient beings. Imaginary plant life and environments. Imaginary lives. Why would you wanna remove the ability to eat food in a world?

As it is, food as implemented is a another weak-paper-thin way to express a “living world” already since it’s just a crappy little icon, in an unimmersive inventory pane. It has no visual representation in world. You can’t see the character eating it. No home to cook it in. These are things most will read here and go “Um… it’s a game. Why would you put that stuff in anyway?” —again, this shows the RPG genre is all but dead.

What also bothers me is the whole “Living World! Tyria lives!” but feels more ‘plastic’ then older MMOs that felt more alive. When I watch the live streams, it breaks my heart see the faces of the developers, see age groups of those that create this rather solid but flawed game, and how respectfully hard-working they are with all odds against them on all sides, but how horribly and almost childishly naive they are when they actually think this game fits the ‘living world’ schematic, just because of the temporary-content storybook they call a ‘living story’ where everyone don’t exist in a persistent world, but a grand protagonist in their own copied-facet of the universe.

Sorry to say it, but if they removed food for gameplay mechanical reasons, It’d not surprise me in the least. It’s disappointing.

If you feel this is a tangent, then my on topic view is that food buffs don’t give enough of an advantage to be removed, but enough to add variety and help. Your reasoning isn’t as invalid as some here’d like to think, but close to it. It’s just an extra part of the lack of variety a class-based RPG has to offer in this case. I say it should stay. I hardly use the stuff myself, and win in 1v1 fights 70-80% of the time regardless of their class, whether they’re buffed or not. Eat food, and still not know how to move and fight…

Two of the same class/level/spec/skill level? One has food buff? Both are subject to the same margin of error and misstep. Food won’t always save you… … …

Stephen McBeaven.5640:

…I will go further and make the unstated point that these disparities SHOULD exist in WvW. It is what separates WvW from sPvP and makes having both game modes such a great compromise to the pvp community. There are many players who want a pvp environment where they DO benefit from their gear, etc.

Don’t mind me, I’m just gonna quote myself here from earlier in the thread. There are many MMO players who really like gear disparity. They don’t think of it as “unfair” because they see it as a reward for their skill and perseverance. I am one such person (and believe me I’m not on the good end of the disparity). On the other hand, I also understand that people like certain aspects of the game to be 100% skill based. Isn’kitten good thing that the game compromises and offers both? sPVP and WvW? (I’m not bothering to discuss PvE because, really, how could anyone reasonably complain about gear disparity in PvE? It’s not a competition…)

Sorry, if it’s not clear how this relates to the thread, just pretend I said consumable disparity.

You know, nourishment is yet another check for competentness of a person. I like it how it is right now, except some obviously unfair examples(-40% +40% condi duration both of these are insane)

F&N working as intended, F&N is just an extension of character customization that gives temporary boost to certain stats depending on F&N used.

It amazes me that people want almost everything in this game nerfed/removed because they dislike something by nitpicking.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I’m very aware that mine is not a popular position, but I would prefer the game had little to no stats that are not inherent to one’s character. I’d lose stats on gear, and food/nourishment. I’m also aware that removing “extra” stats would kill the MMO genre, which seems to be at its core about collecting such crap.

The thing is, originally GW1 didn’t have stats beyond these:

How defensive your armour is (all max level armour was equal)
How much damage your weapons deal
Weapon rank requirement (eg. you need 9 ranks in Swordsmanship to deal relevant damage with a Rank 9 Swordsmanship requirement blade)

There were also some secondary inscriptions you could get on weapons and armour that’d eg. increase your character’s energy by 5 or decrease the damage you take from fire by a small percentage.

Until consumables/consets came along, that’s all people needed to worry about, ever, and end-game was all aesthetics — getting shiny max damage weapon skins at optimal rank requirements. Kind of what Anet is busy selling through the gem shop in GW2.

Purple Miku.7032:

-Is it really adding to your overall experience? Yes
-Does it make things too easy? No
-Do I always use it? Why? Yes, because it’s available to me and there’s no reason to hinder myself by making myself hit less damage.
-Do I usually win 1v1 fights against those who don’t use it? I don’t normally WvW to begin with but the impact of food/nourishment is negligible by comparison to the skills used in my rotation/my active defenses.
-Do I craft my own for fun? Or just buy it off the TP? Buy off the tp. There’s no fun in the crafting system because it’s not actually crafting. It’s just a GUI that spits out stuff.
-Do I offer it to other people when I see them without it? Why? Yes, because it’s painful to see teammates that aren’t making use of them… so painful. I can’t stand the inefficiency.

Frankly, I was expecting to see nearly everyone respond similar to the above. Things like “…it’s painful to see teammates that aren’t making use of them…” etc. It’s interesting to see those who agree, semi-agree, and disprove the idea.

Along with all the people that oppose the original idea. I suppose what is F&N but a piece of equipment that breaks every so often and requires you to “repair/eat” again. I see how people consider it part of their equipment and just like their equipment can differ so can the F&N.

Elric.6971:

Zalyn.9534:

Elric.6971:

A weird part of me would like to keep the food crafting around purely as a flavor (if you’ll pardon the pun) craft set, though having its mechanical benefits severely reduced to removed. Also, maybe reduce the ingredients price.

From there, let’s add drink mixes and the ability to personalize recipes!

Also, another, semi-important, thing with cooking crafting though is the ability to create dyes.

Drink mixes would be awesome! But I find the dye recipes boring.

Maybe we need a mixologist craft – making drinks (alcoholic, buffing) and potions.

Alchemist crafting! Make environmental weapons (like acid flasks), ammo for certain intractables like catapults, and all those others things you THINK Alchmeist engies should be able to do!

Also, mix a fine drink.

This is a very interesting alternative to the current. Cool out-of-the-box idea.

I like the idea that fighting on an empty stomach isn’t as effective.

When I played Age of Conan it was awesome, you were totally useless without a hearty meal :p

In gw2 the different food types add a lot of fun for me, sort of like an extra sigil slot would.

I don’t craft em. I hardly use em except for maybe in WvW. TBH, it’s kind of pointless for me.
Other side to it; they usually cost too much two fold like most crafting elements in this game. Too much in silver and too much in materials for the time they can be up and definitely for the time it takes to get the materials. Too much for me anyways.

Some players like that, I’m not one of them. I usually dislike crafting in most games as it is usually clunky and not well thought out.

I play WvW from time to time and I agree with this. Everyone uses food buffs or consumables to have the greatest possible effect. I personally don’t use these, why? Because I don’t like the idea of spending money on these things constantly, yet I’m at a drawback if I don’t buy them. I’ve even seen people claim food is a crucial part of a build before which i am not a fan of at. all.

I use food very rarely, if someone else puts a tray down near me I grab it. Tried it once while leveling and found the 20 min time limit on that low level food way too annoying.

I don’t care if other people are better then me cause they ate food, and would prefer to have it available for when I do want a boost. It’s very optional.

Hmmm, what if, F&N was converted into two global, always changeable rune slots instead?

Or what if, it was changed from time based, to an buff that lasts until defeated.

Or what if, we we where simply given two slots that allows F&N to be auto consumed when needed?

Or how about, having a hot bar that allows us to refresh or change F&N without having to open the inventory?

The thing that really should be asked, is F&N (as it currently is implemented and designed) acting as a kind of nuisance mechanic for optimizing your efficiency? And, Should mechanics, that are nuisances exist in this game?

I would say, yes, food and nutrition are kind of nuisances. I think nuisances are more of a quality of life issue than legitimate game mechanics, so I would lean towards the thought that they should be less annoying to use.

What can be done to make it more enjoyable to use and make it more ubiquitous across the player base?

I see so many threads about how things were in guildwars 1, people need to realise this isnt guildwars 1 and things change. Food and Nourishment are a key part of the game in the way that the players can add little aspects to their builds in which they can gain access to some kind of buff they usually wouldn’t have gotten. I feel it is needed to add to the feel that there are many options in cases of builds making lots more possible for a player.

If you think that using food makes the content too easy then don’t bother using it and give yourself a little bit more of a challenge. In the case of a 1v1 it is mostly up to skill and if you don’t want to use the f&n to fight you don’t have to, but if you don’t there is no need to go saying it should be removed because you don’t like the idea.

Ryu.1368:

]

Well, the only thing I find offensive isn’t your opinion or sentiment exactly.

What bothers me, is most of these types of threads want the addition/subtraction of content viewed through the lens of mechanical game-play function, and almost NEVER through the lens of immersion, lore, or justification of existence in a ‘virtual world’.

It marks in my mind the all but death of the RPG genre.

I can actually illustrate that better by reminding you that this is a world with imaginary sentient beings. Imaginary plant life and environments. Imaginary lives. Why would you wanna remove the ability to eat food in a world?

As it is, food as implemented is a another weak-paper-thin way to express a “living world” already since it’s just a crappy little icon, in an unimmersive inventory pane. It has no visual representation in world. You can’t see the character eating it. No home to cook it in. These are things most will read here and go “Um… it’s a game. Why would you put that stuff in anyway?” —again, this shows the RPG genre is all but dead.

What also bothers me is the whole “Living World! Tyria lives!” but feels more ‘plastic’ then older MMOs that felt more alive. When I watch the live streams, it breaks my heart see the faces of the developers, see age groups of those that create this rather solid but flawed game, and how respectfully hard-working they are with all odds against them on all sides, but how horribly and almost childishly naive they are when they actually think this game fits the ‘living world’ schematic, just because of the temporary-content storybook they call a ‘living story’ where everyone don’t exist in a persistent world, but a grand protagonist in their own copied-facet of the universe.

Sorry to say it, but if they removed food for gameplay mechanical reasons, It’d not surprise me in the least. It’s disappointing.

If you feel this is a tangent, then my on topic view is that food buffs don’t give enough of an advantage to be removed, but enough to add variety and help. Your reasoning isn’t as invalid as some here’d like to think, but close to it. It’s just an extra part of the lack of variety a class-based RPG has to offer in this case. I say it should stay. I hardly use the stuff myself, and win in 1v1 fights 70-80% of the time regardless of their class, whether they’re buffed or not. Eat food, and still not know how to move and fight…

Two of the same class/level/spec/skill level? One has food buff? Both are subject to the same margin of error and misstep. Food won’t always save you… … …

THIS.

So well put. Especially the death of RPG part. Mmorpgs nowadays have become all “combat, efficiency, better, farm, richer, faster” and the playerbase mentality has become like in real, corporate zombie world. What ever happened to the “play” in “role play”.

In fact, I would suggest that they make food even more essential – that a character will start losing his combat effectiveness if he doesn’t eat food for several hours in game play.

^Would definitely eat into the massive surplus of low level foods.

projectcedric.6951:

Ryu.1368:

]
What bothers me, is most of these types of threads want the addition/subtraction of content viewed through the lens of mechanical game-play function, and almost NEVER through the lens of immersion, lore, or justification of existence in a ‘virtual world’.

It marks in my mind the all but death of the RPG genre.

I can actually illustrate that better by reminding you that this is a world with imaginary sentient beings. Imaginary plant life and environments. Imaginary lives. Why would you wanna remove the ability to eat food in a world?

THIS.

So well put. Especially the death of RPG part. Mmorpgs nowadays have become all “combat, efficiency, better, farm, richer, faster” and the playerbase mentality has become like in real, corporate zombie world. What ever happened to the “play” in “role play”.

In fact, I would suggest that they make food even more essential – that a character will start losing his combat effectiveness if he doesn’t eat food for several hours in game play.

Let me join the immersive RPG love train. The thing the OP assumed about people “forcing” group mates to use food was largely disproven: a lot of us offer food because it’s polite – just like IRL. If I’m cooking a big pot of bolognese and I’m chatting with a friend after work, I may just invite them over to share – because it’s food. If I baked brownies, I’ll keep a few for myself and bring the rest in for coworkers, because that’s what you do.

Likewise, if I have extra food from leveling, I’ll offer food generally (“Hey, would anyone like some pepper steak? I’ve got extra.”) just because it’s polite. Would I like to be expected to bring full meals for free for everyone, of course not. Would I bring them with the understanding that others will reciprocate and tip/reimburse me for cost of mats? Sure.

Why wouldn’t someone, except on very rigid principle (which I can respect*), use food that was offered to them for free in-game? (and then politely tip back to help defray the cost of materials) It’s part of being sociable and friendly. If you’re in a group, and someone gave you a suggestion on how to be a bit more effective so the group has a better time, wouldn’t you try it?

Short of that, I feel like the real question of whether people should feel pressured to optimize their characters for group activities is a good one. But to pick out food as the target – and as the sufficient feature to eliminate to get rid of the larger problem – doesn’t make sense. OP perhaps sees it differently because it is consumable and not permanent gear; I actually dislike excessive focus on gear rather than character and prefer stats to be in the character rather than stacked onto gear. But that keeps MMOs from promoting regular play/grinding.

This is why the original questions are insufficient to really discuss this issue – it presupposes too many gaming preferences that many players don’t have.

• I prefer to try to quest for abilities rather than buy them – for WoW people, I trained to solo Anzu for Druid fast flight form because I wanted to earn it (http://www.wowwiki.com/Swift_Flight_Form_quest_chain). Took forever, but I felt so accomplished when I did. Fortunately, there were no cases where I had to have fast flight form for a group, so I wasn’t being a drag on others. So I totally get a preference for earning something rather than buying it.

ETA:

Or what if, we we where simply given two slots that allows F&N to be auto consumed when needed?

Or how about, having a hot bar that allows us to refresh or change F&N without having to open the inventory?

This would be something I really want – a consumable hot slot. Admittedly, food lasts longer here than in other games, but it still is a pain to have to open inventory when it’s sensible to keep a “snack” ready at hand.

Let’s take it a step back and look at the fundamentals. As it is, food is a buff. Does it make sense to be? Not really (not that this matters too much in a fantasy setting). Maintenance oils/sharpening stones/tuning crystals are a buff and they make sense to be.

So rather than removing it, alter what food does. Rather than buff a character, why not use it as a player experience buff or a guild buff. By which I mean, a player who levels a chef and reach a certain level, they could create special banquets which are a combination of foods and can share it in town or in the world. By sharing the food out, the player’s guild gets influence points for every player who comes to eat it or if the player is solo, they get experience points for sharing the food.
Players who eat from the banquet get an experience buff much like the experience banner, but for a much shorter period. This moves the chef more to a role than it is a profession and builds immersion. I could see RP’ers really getting into this, especially after having all their outfits taken away.

Chef crafting lists already come with a variety of different meals from snacks to soups to full meals and as you level up you create a wide variety of foods that have little use once you move past that level. So you could have an Italian themed banquet or a breakfast banquet or a barbecue banquet etc., etc.
Imagine a coordinated banquet among guilds!

UnitedChaos.8364:

-Is it really adding to your overall experience?

Yes. The buffs of my desired nourishment(s) round out my build. Runes + sigils + weapon choice + traits + weapon/armor stats + trinkets + nourishment + combat style + skill level = Who I am as a player.

UnitedChaos.8364:

-Does it make things too easy?

What is easy and hard are relative to each person. Personally I don’t feel nourishment, by itself, makes things too easy. I can and do get my kitten handed to me when I have F&N active. F&N is not “god mode” in GW2. The advantages given are no different than say… someone wearing Ascended gear rather than Exotic, or Exotic over Rare.

Where do we draw the line where one advantage is too great and another is just fine? Lets say nourishment gets removed, what then replaces it in your eyes as making things too easy or unfair? Traits? Legendary weapon stats?

UnitedChaos.8364:

-Do I always use it? Why?

No. Because many times I find myself caught without any. The only characters I consistently use them on, without fail, are my low level alts that I’m leveling.

UnitedChaos.8364:

-Do I usually win 1v1 fights against those who don’t use it?

Honestly don’t know. I don’t keep track of what WvW opponents are or aren’t using, or if they even are using any nourishment. I can tell you that I win and lose in WvW 1v1 without nourishment. Can easily say that most times you catch me using nourishment in WvW its because I’m running with a zerg, not roaming, and someone had placed a tray down.

UnitedChaos.8364:

-Do I craft my own for fun? Or just buy it off the TP?

Both.

UnitedChaos.8364:

-Do I offer it to other people when I see them without it? Why?

Guildmates and friends, yes. Why? Because buffing those around me is in my nature. I enjoy running support as often as I can.

I am against this suggestion.

Nourishment is one way we can further customize our characters to our liking. If anything we need more customization options, not less.

With that being said – I want you to know that I agree on one thing. We do need more difficult content. But removing buffs here or there isn’t the way to go about it.

I always understood foods and buffs to be an intricate part of the build system for PVE and WvW. I pick out my food in the same way I pick out my traits and my gear. Heck, many of my builds count on food buffs to fill particular holes, such as getting higher precision on low precision builds, or getting extra condition duration on hybrid dam/con builds.

This whole idea is silyl and not thought out, because if they would completely remove all of that, they could also then completely remove the whole Cooking Crafting Job as it would become totally useless and it would result also in a huge storm of complaints from people that want all the stuff back, that they have invested into food, nourish,ments, recipes for all that stuff and so on…

Before you come up with such unthought out ideas, please, for gods sake think first about all of the consequences your awesome ideas might create and that among all of these might be a ton of things, that will much likely make alot of people extremely angry.
——

Something completely different is it to just remove food and nourishments PARTWISE out of the game, namely out of WVW

I keep on suggesting it, that this stuff has absolutely nothign to search in WvW.
Buff Items were already in Guild Wars 1 just a PVE Only thing and thats the exact same thing, how Buff Items in general should all work the same way in GW2 too, with the exception of the World Experience Booster, because its the only Booster, that is only useful just in 1 single gameplay area of the Game – WvW because it has been extra added to the game, so that players would have a way to gain a slightly bit faster WvW Ranks with the help of them.

But everything else, from Exp, Karma, MF, Healing, Power, Defense Boosters and Buff Food as like Nourishments. All that stuff should finally become PvE only and not be useable anywhere else in this game.

Then would become finally battles in WvW a slightly bit better, more engaging and more “balanced” so far you want to talk about any kind of Balance in WvW.
But this stuff is it, which makes alot of battles in WvW very frustrating, because they make specific builds in this game way too overpowered

endirasae.3015:

IndigoSundown.5419:

I’m very aware that mine is not a popular position, but I would prefer the game had little to no stats that are not inherent to one’s character. I’d lose stats on gear, and food/nourishment. I’m also aware that removing “extra” stats would kill the MMO genre, which seems to be at its core about collecting such crap.

The thing is, originally GW1 didn’t have stats beyond these:

How defensive your armour is (all max level armour was equal)
How much damage your weapons deal
Weapon rank requirement (eg. you need 9 ranks in Swordsmanship to deal relevant damage with a Rank 9 Swordsmanship requirement blade)

There were also some secondary inscriptions you could get on weapons and armour that’d eg. increase your character’s energy by 5 or decrease the damage you take from fire by a small percentage.

Until consumables/consets came along, that’s all people needed to worry about, ever, and end-game was all aesthetics — getting shiny max damage weapon skins at optimal rank requirements. Kind of what Anet is busy selling through the gem shop in GW2.

Yep, and that’s where I came by my preference. Well, that and PnP RPG’s. I preferred anything but DnD, with its “carry your weight in magic items or stick to fighting orcs and goblins” play-style.

As many are so fond of telling me, GW was not an MMO, and the MMO crowd seems to prefer stats on gear, food and other layered “improvements.”

This means removing cooking as a craft? that might make some people who maxed cooking to rage. Perhaps finding another use would be better than outright removing it.

Coltz.5617:

. Perhaps finding another use would be better than outright removing it.

Or perhaps…

“If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”