Guild Wars 2

I’m introducing my wife to GW2, playing through a casual Caledon forest. Today isn’t exactly the ideal environment for leveling a new character on a new player… see event, event gets obliterated by three dozen level 80s in ascended gear before my wife can even point her character in the right direction. Not fun.

Removing events from starter zones would make them more dull than they already are now. There’s lots of people in Caledon forest today because there is a daily for events in Caledon forest. This does not happen everyday.

Lazaar.9123:

Removing events from starter zones would make them more dull than they already are now. There’s lots of people in Caledon forest today because there is a daily for events in Caledon forest. This does not happen everyday.

Reread: not removing event, removing daily events. I’m sure it’s lots of fun for you to 1 hit the event boss, it’s not fun for my wife and her level 9 character who doesn’t get to do any events.

I absolutely agree with the OP. “Daily Events” should not pull high level characters into starter areas. This is bad design, clearly in conflict with Anet’s desire to make starter areas safe places where new players can learn the game without interference from zergs.
I saw this in Caledon Forest, and in Queensdale. Events filled with high level characters, not holding back so that low level characters could get credit. Monsters just evaporated. This is not fair to new players. What happened to the spirit of the NPE?

I’d like to see the zone-specific dailies gone entirely. It’s not much better in mid-level zones with a zerg of level 80s trashing events. The previous region specific ones were bad enough about causing players to flock to the starter zone of a region, but this just enforces that zone as the only place to go.

I actually like this change. It funnels huge amounts of people into zones. Some zones are pretty quiet, for various reasons, so this spurs activity. And it’s like one day every now and then. I really don’t see the issue. Although, yeah, the starter zones might not be the best area’s.

re: Although, yeah, the starter zones might not be the best area’s. – That’s the whole point, they shouldn’t be dong this in only starter areas. High level characters should have the option to do this in other zones. Heck everyone should have the more flexibility in where they do their daily events. It should be region-wide instead of a specific map. And rewards should scale up with the level of the areas to encourage high level characters to do their daily events in a level-appropriate area. (Note, I’m not for restricting high level players to high level areas, just giving them incentive to go to higher level areas instead of starter areas. – Once again, I’m for more freedom of choice in dailies.)

MashMash.1645:

I really don’t see the issue. Although, yeah, the starter zones might not be the best area’s.

Starter zones are a problem because those character don’t have a choice. Ya, us vets know we can go to LA and then asura gate to another zone, but newbies are basically stuck in a zone being ripped apart by level 80 berserker eles killing the entire event spawns in a single phoenix.

MashMash.1645:

I actually like this change. It funnels huge amounts of people into zones

No zone other than high level ones need this though, how many people do we need to kill 2 level 24 wolves? It just makes it a “kill-steal” zone.

Yeah, I’d have to agree that having the Daily Events be in starter zones doesn’t give the best experience to new players just starting out. I’d like to see it in 15+ zones only, leaving the newbie zones out of it.

Where will the ‘newbies’ go to complete their Dailies, if no Dailies are in starter zones?

Removing them is not the answer. Different zones for different Character Levels, perhaps, but not removing them from starter zones.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Where will the ‘newbies’ go to complete their Dailies, if no Dailies are in starter zones?

New players don’t do dailies; dailes are a tactic taken from the gambling world to keep ‘vets’ returning. My wife has not even noticed that dailies exist, and if you watch some let’s plays of new GW2 players, you’ll probably see the same thing.

New players are not achievement hunting, they want to do events, and dailies are ruining those events.

I have to disagree with taking away dailies from new players. I disagree with anything that removes options. We need more options, not less. Dailies can help experienced players level alts. And also the new players, once they start learning about the game. Dailies should be available throughout the whole region, with incentives for higher level players to do them in higher level areas. We need less restrictions, and more options.

I agree with Elden, but if Anet can’t or won’t implement an alternative, the dailies really need to stop in starter zones. I agree with mrstealth the entire idea is flawed and needs to be removed from all specific non-level 80 zones, but at the very least I’d like to be able to play GW2 with my wife on a friday in her starter zone, and it’s not something we could do tonight.

Fluffball.8307:

I agree with Elden, but if Anet can’t or won’t implement an alternative, the dailies really need to stop in starter zones. I agree with mrstealth the entire idea is flawed and needs to be removed from all specific non-level 80 zones, but at the very least I’d like to be able to play GW2 with my wife on a friday in her starter zone, and it’s not something we could do tonight.

You don’t think starting characters should be allowed to do event dailies. Yeah, way to recruit new players. I guess you think there are enough people playing.

DarcShriek.5829:

Fluffball.8307:

I agree with Elden, but if Anet can’t or won’t implement an alternative, the dailies really need to stop in starter zones. I agree with mrstealth the entire idea is flawed and needs to be removed from all specific non-level 80 zones, but at the very least I’d like to be able to play GW2 with my wife on a friday in her starter zone, and it’s not something we could do tonight.

You don’t think starting characters should be allowed to do event dailies. Yeah, way to recruit new players. I guess you think there are enough people playing.

I don’t understand your intent, or you don’t understand mine. The daily Calderon forest event made GW2 unplayable for my wife. She got really angry that hordes of people were swarming us and killing all the heart and event enemies before she could point her character in the right direction. Clarify how that makes her ever want to play again (it doesn’t; I told her not to play today and we’ll try tomorrow.)

I’d also like to point out (again) that new players do not care about achievments, they care about learning the game. And again, my wife, and all of the let’s plays I’ve watched, do not notice the existence of dailies.

You and I want to play dailies, brand new players do not know about or want to collect achievment points.

No,game needs to feel alive exactly for new players so that they can see it.Do you have idea how many games i quit just cause i didn’t find any1 on the starting zones?First thing you get to think when there are no players in starting zones is,game is dead – uninstall.

I agree with the op that this is a major problem for new players. I don’t think there is an easy way to fix this problem. What do you do for the new players that work their way out of the starter zones? They’ll run into the exact same problem in the next zone and the next zone and the next zone, until they are geared and traited to hang with the zerker zergs.

Sadly, the newbs are going to have to suffer through this change just like us vets have to suffer through it. It’s either this or Anet changes it to be more general and less specific like the old dailies.

saalle.4623:

No,game needs to feel alive exactly for new players so that they can see it.Do you have idea how many games i quit just cause i didn’t find any1 on the starting zones?First thing you get to think when there are no players in starting zones is,game is dead – uninstall.

Really? I’d think “Oh, people are probably in higher level areas. Good, that gives me space to get into this thing at my own pace.”

saalle.4623:

No,game needs to feel alive exactly for new players so that they can see it.Do you have idea how many games i quit just cause i didn’t find any1 on the starting zones?First time you get to think when there are no players in starting zones is,game is dead – uninstall.

How do you explain my wife’s experience of wanting to quit GW2 because she couldn’t complete her hearts or events due to level 80s wrecking everything? Please answer, a lot of people are posting “this is for the good of the game,” and then ignoring the only new player experience in the thread, which was to quit the game entirely because of frustration. If I had not explained this is not normal, she definitely would never have come back.

America.9437:

I agree with the op that this is a major problem for new players. I don’t think there is an easy way to fix this problem.

Easy fix: ditch these asinine achievements. No one was really dying to have them before last tuesday, and no one will miss them.

Your wife could have just waited to do stuff in Caledon tomorrow, there are other zones.

Lazaar.9123:

Your wife could have just waited to do stuff in Caledon tomorrow, there are other zones.

Try to visit them from someone who has never played GW2 before. She’d logged a total of about 3 hours and now I’m trying to explain to her she has to leave this zone entirely and go somewhere else so level 80s can have the zone she’s just learning about. She was also 1 level away from her personal story which takes place guess where.

A lot of people in this thread are totally incapable of viewing GW2 from a completely new player’s experience… The daily doesn’t bother me, the guy with 16000 AP, it bothers my wife with 33 AP who wants to quit the game because of — from her perspective — obnoxious other players.

And do any level 80s REALLY want to be in a starter zone? I should hope not. Go play PvP or WvW or a level 80 zone.

Lazaar.9123:

Your wife could have just waited to do stuff in Caledon tomorrow, there are other zones.

Wow. I can’t believe you posted this.

I can imagine his wife, firing up the game, choosing the Salad people cause they looked the best to her and spending lots of time at character creation make a good looking character and then when ready to play the game she’s greedted with “hey, go someplace else or just wait for tomorrow while us Vets curb stomp the entire zone. oh and welcome to GW2”

I have a radical suggestion.

How about instead properly balancing lv80s in downlevelled zones?

Absolutely crazy, huh?

America.9437:

Lazaar.9123:

Your wife could have just waited to do stuff in Caledon tomorrow, there are other zones.

Wow. I can’t believe you posted this.

I can imagine his wife, firing up the game, choosing the Salad people cause they looked the best to her and spending lots of time at character creation make a good looking character and then when ready to play the game she’s greedted with “hey, go someplace else or just wait for tomorrow while us Vets curb stomp the entire zone. oh and welcome to GW2”

Because OP seems very over-dramatic about it. Once an event is done, said people will move along to a different event, likely minutes later. All hearts have multiple objectives anyway. And if they can’t handle people being around and think they’re obnoxious… then why play a MMO?

Hannelore.8153:

I have a radical suggestion.

How about instead properly balancing lv80s in downlevelled zones?

Absolutely crazy, huh?

Despite being a good idea, that actually doesn’t fix anything. Higher level zones like Orr scale really well to more players. Caledon doesn’t scale at all, so 40 players running over the mushroom heart to do the drake quest still breaks everything. And even if they were proportionally scaled, a large mass of max attribute level 5s are still going to outdamage a new character not wearing shoulder armor or gloves or trinkets badly enough that everything is for naught anyway. Not to mention the fact that none of this makes for a fun heart completion when a zerg rolls over your intended “1v1” versus the spider.

Lazaar.9123:

Because OP seems very over-dramatic about it. Once an event is done, said people will move along to a different event, likely minutes later.

And destroy it as well, all day for the entire day. It’s not like only 20 people want to complete this daily and then it’s done.

And for the umpteenth time, please remind me why you need to annihilate events in a starter zone in order to have fun completing your daily, rather than doing something in a higher level zone?

Fluffball.8307:

Hannelore.8153:

I have a radical suggestion.

How about instead properly balancing lv80s in downlevelled zones?

Absolutely crazy, huh?

Despite being a good idea, that actually doesn’t fix anything. Higher level zones like Orr scale really well to more players. Caledon doesn’t scale at all, so 40 players running over the mushroom heart to do the drake quest still breaks everything. And even if they were proportionally scaled, a large mass of max attribute level 5s are still going to outdamage a new character not wearing shoulder armor or gloves or trinkets badly enough that everything is for naught anyway. Not to mention the fact that none of this makes for a fun heart completion when a zerg rolls over your intended “1v1” versus the spider.

Not having armor on a new character is a visual effect only. If you aren’t able to equip something, you still gain the equivalent armor points from it until the time when you are able to equip it. I recommend doing some wiki reading.

The event scaling is an issue, yes. And gear and trait scaling is a problem of the downlevel system being broken. Despite replying to my post with a good intent, you seem to’ve missed the point that this thread is trying to throw a semitruck at a pothole just because it can’t get over it in a normal car.

As for zergs, that’s megaserver. They will always be there until ArenaNet reduces the maximum population of maps according to their sustainable limits.

I, and many others, outlined the whole problem in my old thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Downlevelling-should-be-more-harsh

Fluffball.8307:

And destroy it as well, all day for the entire day. It’s not like only 20 people want to complete this daily and then it’s done.

And for the umpteenth time, please remind me why you need to annihilate events in a starter zone in order to have fun completing your daily, rather than doing something in a higher level zone?

Well actually, I would prefer if the event dailies stayed how they were as Maguuman Events, Ascalon Events and such, some people would still go to lower level zones though to do events, just because it’s easier, so that wouldn’t really change much.

I totally agree with OP.
What’s going on in the starter zones when dailies require some events there reminds the worst days of QD train.

Seriously, THIS is not confusing for new players, Anet?

Hannelore.8153:

Despite replying to my post with a good intent, you seem to’ve missed the point that this thread is trying to throw a semitruck at a pothole just because it can’t get over it in a normal car.

It’s not your pothole colloquialism, there is just no benefit that I’m seeing to have swarms of vets outplaying newbies.

Look at it this way: There is NO reason to have zergs of overly powerful players that are potentially highly skilled swarming a starter zone and removing the option for newbies to play. There are reasons to NOT have zergs of overly powerful players that are potentially highly skilled swarming starter zones and removing the option for newbies to play.

I’m a bit confused. Here is husband, more than experienced at 16,000 AP, having played for some goodly amount of time, talking up GW2 enough that his wife is interested, tells her all about how fun it is and how this works/how that works. She decided to play, buys the game (or uses his), makes a new character…and husband leaves her alone for first 2/3 hours? Doesn’t help her get started? Explain how to get to LA and other starter zones? How to map the Grove? Just leaves her to flounder in a ‘zerg’ of Level 80s until she is ready to rage-quit?

Something seems amiss. Or I did it all wrong with my SO.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I’m a bit confused. Here is husband, more than experienced at 16,000 AP, having played for some goodly amount of time, talking up GW2 enough that his wife is interested, tells her all about how fun it is and how this works/how that works. She decided to play, buys the game (or uses his), makes a new character…and husband leaves her alone for first 2/3 hours? Doesn’t help her get started? Explain how to get to LA and other starter zones? How to map the Grove? Just leaves her to flounder in a ‘zerg’ of Level 80s until she is ready to rage-quit?

Something seems amiss. Or I did it all wrong with my SO.

Nope, I paid the money for a new character to support her. A (2nd) guardian with the sole focus of keeping her alive and letting her explore on her own. My goal was not to jack her up into the upper ranks of the PvP ladder withing 2 days of buying the game, I just want her to enjoy exploring like I did. So nope, I’m not going to demand she switch zones to accommodate a daily, I’m going to advocate her position on the forums instead.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I’m a bit confused. Here is husband, more than experienced at 16,000 AP

I fail to see how OP’s amount of AP helps new players in the starter zones when they are swarmed with 80s finishing all the events in seconds.

The point is….an experienced player could have helped a newbie by explaining some untoward circumstances before the newbie wanted to rage-quit.

But, as the experienced player posted, he was not inclined. A bit unfortunate for the newbie.

I can’t say I understand why newbies should not be afforded the opportunity to do Dailies. I certainly did them when I first started. I can’t recall meeting anyone that didn’t do them back then. I’m sure there were some players…I’m sure there are some players that do not do them to this day.

It is likely this circumstance will happen only once every 15 – 25 days. Surely, once explained, even a newbie could handle such an experience once or twice a month. There can be several frustrating happenstances in the game. Lol, I remember the first time I tried a Jumping Puzzle, or some less-than-faceroll Vista. I thought I would never complete them. Now they are sooo easy. =)

Don’t try to narrow the problem down to how OP should play with his wife.

I couldn’t agree more with the OP. Restrict them to 30+ zones at least so that those with sub-31 characters who have not unlocked all 4 daily options can have a chance at success.

I mean, yesterday in Bloodtide, enemies that spawned were dying before I could land grenades on them. In Queensdale it is abysmal.

Why should the experience of one player be worth more than others, though?

Lazaar.9123:

Why should the experience of one player be worth more than others, though?

It shouldn’t, which is what this thread is about. Move vet swarms out of starter zones so vets can enjoy doing something other than 1-hitting event bosses and newbies can participate in the game. Sounds fair, right?

cheshader.5081:

Don’t try to narrow the problem down to how OP should play with his wife.

Well, the problem in this particular thread would not exist if the OP had used some common sense to explain things and suggest a change, rather than watching his wife get frustrated over the course of hours.

I agree there’s a potential problem for new players who are on their own, and have no idea of their other options.

Olvendred.3027:

Well, the problem in this particular thread would not exist if the OP had used some common sense to explain things and suggest a change, rather than watching his wife get frustrated over the course of hours.

The thing is, it wasn’t over the course of hours. How many enemies do you need to see get exploded in front of you that you try to attack and can’t before you get frustrated? It was not hours, it was minutes if not seconds. Also I have never left her side as she played. I’m there, offering her advice and keeping her alive with my new guardian, but I want her to lead the way. She controls where we go because she is exploring the game.

It’s actually fairly insulting that you suggest to me how my wife plays the game, wouldn’t you agree? She is in control and getting advice from someone with probably more experience than you, so she’s in pretty much the best possible situation.

As a final note, my OP is nearly the highest rated post I’ve ever made in over 2 years, so clearly a lot of people feel the same way. This is not a good situation, and I want more GW2 newbies to be happy! I spend a lot of time coaching newbies if they want it because I want to keep playing this game for years to come.

Fluffball.8307:

Olvendred.3027:

Well, the problem in this particular thread would not exist if the OP had used some common sense to explain things and suggest a change, rather than watching his wife get frustrated over the course of hours.

The thing is, it wasn’t over the course of hours. How many enemies do you need to see get exploded in front of you that you try to attack and can’t before you get frustrated? It was not hours, it was minutes if not seconds. Also I have never left her side as she played. I’m there, offering her advice and keeping her alive with my new guardian, but I want her to lead the way. She controls where we go because she is exploring the game.

It’s actually fairly insulting that you suggest to me how my wife plays the game, wouldn’t you agree? She is in control and getting advice from someone with probably more experience than you, so she’s in pretty much the best possible situation.

As a final note, my OP is nearly the highest rated post I’ve ever made in over 2 years, so clearly a lot of people feel the same way. This is not a good situation, and I want more GW2 newbies to be happy! I spend a lot of time coaching newbies if they want it because I want to keep playing this game for years to come.

No offense intended, but if your wife can’t handle a few minutes of frustration, then MMOs are not for her.

Lazaar.9123:

No offense intended, but if your wife can’t handle a few minutes of frustration, then MMOs are not for her.

There is a difference between frustration at game mechanics, and the elation of finally overcoming those mechanics… and seeing something which is caused by other players and is completely impossible to overcome. It is out of your control.

Olvendred.3027:

You said she’d logged 3 hours total in game. If the problem was noticeable in minutes (as I imagine it would be), then you sat there, over the course of hours, knowing exactly what was wrong, but not trying to do anything to alleviate the frustration.

3 hours TOTAL (edit: acount total). The rest of your post is not relevant or passive aggressive when you take that in to account.

We couldn’t play for a day that we wanted to play. Get it?

Let’s revive old Trains in Queensdale.

Fluffball.8307:

Olvendred.3027:

You said she’d logged 3 hours total in game. If the problem was noticeable in minutes (as I imagine it would be), then you sat there, over the course of hours, knowing exactly what was wrong, but not trying to do anything to alleviate the frustration.

3 hours TOTAL (edit: acount total). The rest of your post is not relevant or passive aggressive when you take that in to account.

We couldn’t play for a day that we wanted to play. Get it?

Oh, I see. She’d logged the 3 hours on a previous day, or in character creation? Fair enough, though that wasn’t made particularly clear earlier in the thread. Or in this post of yours.

But ok. In that case your problems are much more reasonable.

You had to scroll down 22 posts before you you found anything about 3 hours… but ok. As long as we get the message out that it’s not newbie friendly.

They should make the dailies: region event, kills etc. Too many high lvls on same map running after event to event, is no fun for lowbies, new players.

I can imagine that new players are getting frustrated when they not can do their stuff in the starter zones, where a zerg of high lvls are killing the mobs in no time.

You guys are forgetting that new players are not able to do a high level fractal or go kill the claw of jormag. The daily achievement in low level areas is meant to allow new players to get their dailies in as the high level players, especially since they have less options for doing them.

The point isn’t whether or not OP should have said something to his wife about all the level 80s. The point is that any new players in that zone trying to level that day were having their events, mobs and hearts roflstomped by level 80s before they could do them.

If they are new and don’t know anyone who could tell them that this isn’t usual, then it’s going to be frustrating. They don’t know how to get to another zone and even if they do, as far as they know the situation will be the same there.

If I was a new person on my first day, didn’t know anyone and couldn’t get anything done because hordes of people were continuously ruining my events, I wouldn’t know to change zones or that it would make a difference if I did. It would be very frustrating and I wouldn’t know it wasn’t usual.