Guild Wars 2

I quit this game a while ago. So I’m not sure about ascended armor.

But the way I see it. A full set of ascended gear probably cost about 700 gold at most.

That is probably 140 hours of pve playing. And if anyone dont’ have 140 hours of game time they probably shouldn’t be playing mmorpg.

And if you only wvw, kittened to be you. Since you can’t make money from wvw. But any pve player shouldn’t have a problem making enough money for a set of ascended gear. I think there should be more ways to acquire ascended gear for wvw player.

laokoko.7403:

And if you only wvw, kittened to be you. Since you can’t make money from wvw.

I’m going to call your bluff. I’ve made money at WvW before, just not at off-peak hours. All you have to do is not spend it on Golems getting blown up in ill-advises uses and not bankrolling upgrades for places which aren’t getting defended.

Also, sell everything.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

laokoko.7403:

And if you only wvw, kittened to be you. Since you can’t make money from wvw.

I’m going to call your bluff. I’ve made money at WvW before, just not at off-peak hours. All you have to do is not spend it on Golems getting blown up in ill-advises uses and not bankrolling upgrades for places which aren’t getting defended.

Also, sell everything.

I barely WvW. Havn’t even played the game for a few month so I don’t know how much things changed.

I mean WvW make much less money than PvE. At least it is like that before.

laokoko.7403:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

laokoko.7403:

And if you only wvw, kittened to be you. Since you can’t make money from wvw.

I’m going to call your bluff. I’ve made money at WvW before, just not at off-peak hours. All you have to do is not spend it on Golems getting blown up in ill-advises uses and not bankrolling upgrades for places which aren’t getting defended.

Also, sell everything.

I barely WvW. Havn’t even played the game for a few month so I don’t know how much things changed.

I mean WvW make much less money than PvE. At least it is like that before.

Well, possibly. I mean in PvE there’s chances for those high-selling skins you can get. Collect a couple of those and you might just make bank. WvW doesn’t exactly have that option.

However, still possible to make plenty to get by on. Especially if you just sell crafting mats instead of hoarding them. (More than a few players still do.)

Short answer to your evil question= Its not a forced grind.

In WoW you HAD to upgrade every few months and even then the time model your talking about was for the elite groups. Guild wars 2 carters more to the regular players and the casual more then the elites.
I actually enjoy the gear here because its less of a “your gear score is a little lower then what we want so your gonna be left out, sorry.” and more of a “welcome to the group friend. I see you spend some extra time to get that sweet weapon/armor skin. very nice”

Chaotic Storm.2815:

Short answer to your evil question= Its not a forced grind.

In WoW you HAD to upgrade every few months and even then the time model your talking about was for the elite groups. Guild wars 2 carters more to the regular players and the casual more then the elites.
I actually enjoy the gear here because its less of a “your gear score is a little lower then what we want so your gonna be left out, sorry.” and more of a “welcome to the group friend. I see you spend some extra time to get that sweet weapon/armor skin. very nice”

that’s what we wanted gw2 to be like.
now we can see a grinding vertical progression of the equip, so get that extra damage/stats/ar gear is mandatory.
nobody would complain about some extra time for “that sweet new skin”.

(999th fanboy lesson incoming in 3…2….)

Chaotic Storm.2815:

I actually enjoy the gear here because its less of a “your gear score is a little lower then what we want so your gonna be left out, sorry.” and more of a “welcome to the group friend. I see you spend some extra time to get that sweet weapon/armor skin. very nice”

“Wait, you’re a longbow ranger? Is that a bear . . . . /kick”

Kevan.8912:

Chaotic Storm.2815:

Short answer to your evil question= Its not a forced grind.

In WoW you HAD to upgrade every few months and even then the time model your talking about was for the elite groups. Guild wars 2 carters more to the regular players and the casual more then the elites.
I actually enjoy the gear here because its less of a “your gear score is a little lower then what we want so your gonna be left out, sorry.” and more of a “welcome to the group friend. I see you spend some extra time to get that sweet weapon/armor skin. very nice”

that’s what we wanted gw2 to be like.
now we can see a grinding vertical progression of the equip, so get that extra damage/stats/ar gear is mandatory.
nobody would complain about some extra time for “that sweet new skin”.

(999th fanboy lesson incoming in 3…2….)

I’m not sure if “mandatory” is the right word, but also the experience the quoted person is listing is kind of what like . . . eh, 80% of the PUGs I get into are like. (Usually the answer is “Hall of Monuments” from me though.)

For what it’s worth, the same was true in GW1 also. for every four really decent groups there was one which . . . was not.

Kevan.8912:

yes, skill is important.

so, why to give even that 5% improvement in stats? skill would become the ONLY important thing in a fight.

wasn’t it sufficient to create just more tiers of legendary weapons armor etc…or even “ascended”…but with same statistics with existing exotics?
just to give cosmetic advancement to players who dedicate enough time to get that equipment?
everybody would have played and grinded without flaming in this forum, and also “pro grinding” players could find their reason d’etre in grinding for a better appearance of their characters
pro’s would show their real qualities in battle, AND in appearance.
and everybody would be fine

That’s a really good point. Basically if the new tier of ascended stats don’t matter much then why even bother making them different than exotics at all, except cosmetically? And if they do matter then people will justifiably feel they are forced to grind to stay competitive.

I guess my own motivation for lazily going for ascended armor (only have one piece so far) is just for an abstract sense of accomplishment that I have ‘best in slot’ gear. I’m transmuting all the ascended armor anyway since I personally don’t like the look so it’s really just a personal goal that I don’t feel forced to complete, just an extra option. I think without the slight stat improvement I wouldn’t have a reason to bother though.

Thinking about it more if they were to make a variety of styles available within each armor type to choose from, maybe even switchable like stats on legendaries, I would probably ‘grind’ for ascended armor even without any stat change.

Yeah I agree, something other than a small stat boost with ascendeds would have quieted a lot of the controversy. Again, good point.

I think Anet some what realize it is hard to keep people playing if they don’t reward something. Not everyone care about cosmetic

More over Anet is trying to sell GW2 in asia. I suppose a power creep of some kind is needed.

I dont’ think it take long to acquire ascended gear. At least not for me. If I dont’ have the time to play mmorpg, I simply dont’ play it. Which I don’t right now.

I really think they released Ascended to give the “no end game” and “WoW” type player something to do rather than complain that they didn’t have raids and there was no endgame. Problem solved, and now they complain about Ascended. They will never stop complaining until they leave the game. I cant wait!

Sligh.2789:

I really think they released Ascended to give the “no end game” and “WoW” type player something to do rather than complain that they didn’t have raids and there was no endgame. Problem solved, and now they complain about Ascended. They will never stop complaining until they leave the game. I cant wait!

wait for what? for people who complain to leave?
enjoy the beginning of the endless grind. just another mmo like wow.

and yes, many unsatisfied players will leave the game.
because we feel betrayed.

laokoko.7403:

I think Anet some what realize it is hard to keep people playing if they don’t reward something. Not everyone care about cosmetic

More over Anet is trying to sell GW2 in asia. I suppose a power creep of some kind is needed.

I dont’ think it take long to acquire ascended gear. At least not for me. If I dont’ have the time to play mmorpg, I simply dont’ play it. Which I don’t right now.

here some words O’Brien said time ago…my young brother in another post reminded me.
“If you love MMOs, you’ll want to check out Guild Wars 2, and if you hate MMOs, you’ll really want to check out Guild Wars 2”

yeah. it was just marketing…only words.
and of course you’re right, anet now has different asian targets than before.
but beware, because that same new audience could go back to other games, eliminating any peculiarity that could make gw2 shine in the market (no grind! no treadmill! yes social life! play as you want!)…and any residual reliability of anet.

Only Ascended strikes me as any real ‘grind’ when it comes to gear in GW2, as it requires laurels, crafting, and special materials that you can’t even get unless you seek them out on a lvl 80. With some tweaking of acquisition (both to materials, and to overall ascended options), and to the general time gating, I think there might be less ‘grind pressure’ to this tier. These things have been brought up, and discussed to death in the CDI and Chris has acknowledged that we have been heard. The ball is in Anet’s court now. Let’s give them some time to hash it out and see what they decide.

Exotic has some minor grind to it, no matter what option to go with: crafting, dungeoning, temple, or straight out buying it off the auction house. However, most of that ‘grind’ is hidden in the normal play since we acquire the materials along the way as we level, and as such we don’t take note of it as much.

Outside of these two tiers, there really is no gear grind of note. Usable, decent armor seems to drop like rain for me when I play, and leveling the crafting is very easy so long as I gather as I go. Additionally, since events are a necessity of leveling, I wrack up karma as well, which gives me another means of acquiring gear as I level. The only reason I would fail to keep a character’s armor and weapons ‘up to date’ as I play would simply be due to laziness on my part.

Numbers don’t tell lies, period. Take a look at this two builds

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|1.5g.h2.0.0.0|7.5g.h2.9.5g.h4.0.0.0|5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.0.0.0.0.0.0|2s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0|u59b.0.0.a5.u69c|39.1|5x.6b.61.69.6m|e

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|1.1g.h2.0.0.0|7.1g.h2.9.1g.h4.0.0.0|1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.0.0.0.0.0.0|1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67|u59b.0.0.a5.u69c|39.1|5x.6b.61.69.6m|e

One is full ascended and the other is full exotic. The effective power on the ascended build is 14% higher than the exotic build. That to me is very significant.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Only Ascended strikes me as any real ‘grind’ when it comes to gear in GW2, as it requires laurels, crafting, and special materials that you can’t even get unless you seek them out on a lvl 80.
…….
Outside of these two tiers, there really is no gear grind of note. Usable, decent armor seems to drop like rain for me when I play, and leveling the crafting is very easy so long as I gather as I go.

except for…uhm…legendary and ascended weapons…(one of the most important part in a mmo rpg is best equipment) there is no gear grind.
ohoh…i think it’s more than enough

however, everybody knows what’s the main issue.
(past)- ok, they put grind? nothing new.
i hate grind, so never even thought about getting a legendary.
but it was still ok for me and many others, altough it was boring.

but,
-(now) they actually put heavy grind for BiS gear.
that’s the issue.

every kind of grinding is boring. especially for some players.
the mandatory grinding is another thing.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

These things have been brought up, and discussed to death in the CDI and Chris has acknowledged that we have been heard. The ball is in Anet’s court now. Let’s give them some time to hash it out and see what they decide.

i hope they’ll really think about what we’re saying here at ANet.
but it’s extremely unlikely they’ll go back to what used to be.
i’ll eagerly wait for any kind of news. but with no concrete hopes.
i really loved gw2. waited for it to be launched and read every single preview from known websites in 2012.
i never even thought about of whining on this forum…until everything i liked in gw2 was changed.
really really hope in any sign of change, and until then i won’t log in

defrule.7236:

Numbers don’t tell lies, period. Take a look at this two builds

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|1.5g.h2.0.0.0|7.5g.h2.9.5g.h4.0.0.0|5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.0.0.0.0.0.0|2s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0|u59b.0.0.a5.u69c|39.1|5x.6b.61.69.6m|e

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|1.1g.h2.0.0.0|7.1g.h2.9.1g.h4.0.0.0|1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.0.0.0.0.0.0|1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67|u59b.0.0.a5.u69c|39.1|5x.6b.61.69.6m|e

One is full ascended and the other is full exotic. The effective power on the ascended build is 14% higher than the exotic build. That to me is very significant.

You can also use stats infusions on armor and trinkets, that is the whole point of Ascended.
Probably the only tier (except legendary) that will grant us access to the vertical progression they’re trying to shove down our throats.

Seras.5702:

Each new tier of gear in WoW was a monumental increase in stats. It was necessary. And to attain it you had to run raids. Endlessly. And they took forever to get together if you weren’t part of an organized raid guild.

GW2 has released exactly 1 new tier of gear since launch over a year ago: Ascended. They released trinkets first, then weapons, then armor separately, but all still just 1 new tier. I have no problems with the trinket acquisition. However, Ascended weapons and armor requiring expensive and time consuming crafting is ridiculous.

People are upset at the single new tier since it’s contrary to the original GW2 manifesto. But it’s still nothing like WoW.

It’s your own fault if you couldn’t even pull yourself together and dedicate yourself to become a better player, post a application on some serious guild website and get in to that guild.
It wasn’t that hard to find a guild man.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

People always complained about how WoW had this horrible endless gear grind that was the source of all evil in the world. However as far as I can tell GW2 has a much longer, less rewarding and more frequent gear grind then WoW ever had.

In WoW you got a new set of gear every ~6 months. It all launched at once and it came with the introduction of 1-2 new raids each containing 8-12 bosses. It took 2-3 weeks to figure out the strategies and then another 2-3 weeks to get them down pat. By that time you had about 1/3 of your new gear. Then it took another 3-4 weeks of farming the raids to complete your gear set. All told it took ~8 weeks to get the new gear but you also got dozens if not hundreds of hours of new gameplay, new story lines, and new mechanics from the raids.

Switch over to GW2… here we have released new gear every 3 months, it came with NO new content at all. Was put on a gear grind that takes 2-3 weeks PER PIECE and does not even really require playing the game, just the market, and worst of all it doesn’t even make you hardly any more powerful in PvE since the game is so poorly balanced.

So why is it that WoW’s model was the root of all evil yet GW2 is claimed to not have a gear grind? As far as I can tell GW2 is 10x more of a gear grind then WoW was and it doesn’t even come with new content to make it exciting.

I dont know…I wonder the same sometimes.

People that play Guild Wars 2 complain that WoW has a massive gear grind and treadmill. Then in GW2, its even more so, and less rewarding. Then these same people will say “well in GW2 you don’t need ascended gear/gear grind unless you run high level fractals”. And I then say “Well in WoW you don’t need BiS Raid gear unless you…raid.”

I wonder why , according to many GW2 players, this is unacceptable in WoW but acceptable in Gw2.

I just gotta laugh over people talking about endless raid grinds in WoW. You can only complete them once per week and I spend about 4-5 hours doing so because it’s real, permanent content and it’s actually fun. How long would it take me to gear one character in GW2 if I only spent 4-5 hrs a week in game?

Kevan.8912:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

These things have been brought up, and discussed to death in the CDI and Chris has acknowledged that we have been heard. The ball is in Anet’s court now. Let’s give them some time to hash it out and see what they decide.

i hope they’ll really think about what we’re saying here at ANet.
but it’s extremely unlikely they’ll go back to what used to be.
i’ll eagerly wait for any kind of news. but with no concrete hopes.
i really loved gw2. waited for it to be launched and read every single preview from known websites in 2012.
i never even thought about of whining on this forum…until everything i liked in gw2 was changed.
really really hope in any sign of change, and until then i won’t log in

Ascended isn’t going away. That much we know. However, if they simply give us more ways to obtain it, I think it might make people less cranky. I expect it to be superbly expensive in order to be on par with crafting cost, but I’m ok with that. We’ll see what they decide.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

However, if they simply give us more ways to obtain it, I think it might make people less cranky.

The fact that it required an official arenanet created forum thread under the umbrella power of the CDI, for them to have an “aha” moment and realize that we would like more ways to acquire ascended than crafting…angers me. No, change that..it just frustrates me. I am dumbfounded that they, again, could not see this coming. It seems that very little future planning goes on when they make decisions because something like this is a no brainer. Either they didn’t see it coming, or they knew it but didn’t give us alternatives because they thought they knew better. Either way, it leaves many frustrated players in their wake.

Same thing happened with the initial rollout of fractals and being player-gated. They said they quickly realized the error of their ways, that they had created a system that was player gated and were already discussing remediation solutions. Me, being a simple minded player, saw this as a problem as soon as the patch released, yet they as developers had months to work on it.

QA?

Edit: I tried to make sure that this response was not attacking any one person or persons(in order to avoid it being removed and getting infracted). But the point needs to be heard…it is curious that the developer has an “aha” moment after we point things out to them immediately after release of said content.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I just gotta laugh over people talking about endless raid grinds in WoW. You can only complete them once per week and I spend about 4-5 hours doing so because it’s real, permanent content and it’s actually fun. How long would it take me to gear one character in GW2 if I only spent 4-5 hrs a week in game?

0 weeks.

You’d have enough money saved from leveling to buy multiple sets of level 80 exotics.

teegees.9638:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I just gotta laugh over people talking about endless raid grinds in WoW. You can only complete them once per week and I spend about 4-5 hours doing so because it’s real, permanent content and it’s actually fun. How long would it take me to gear one character in GW2 if I only spent 4-5 hrs a week in game?

0 weeks.

You’d have enough money saved from leveling to buy multiple sets of level 80 exotics.

What if I want to do high level fractals? Or serious WvW. You need ascended.

cesmode.4257:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

However, if they simply give us more ways to obtain it, I think it might make people less cranky.

The fact that it required an official arenanet created forum thread under the umbrella power of the CDI, for them to have an “aha” moment and realize that we would like more ways to acquire ascended than crafting…angers me. No, change that..it just frustrates me. I am dumbfounded that they, again, could not see this coming. It seems that very little future planning goes on when they make decisions because something like this is a no brainer. Either they didn’t see it coming, or they knew it but didn’t give us alternatives because they thought they knew better. Either way, it leaves many frustrated players in their wake.

Same thing happened with the initial rollout of fractals and being player-gated. They said they quickly realized the error of their ways, that they had created a system that was player gated and were already discussing remediation solutions. Me, being a simple minded player, saw this as a problem as soon as the patch released, yet they as developers had months to work on it.

QA?

Edit: I tried to make sure that this response was not attacking any one person or persons(in order to avoid it being removed and getting infracted). But the point needs to be heard…it is curious that the developer has an “aha” moment after we point things out to them immediately after release of said content.

The devs see a broader picture than we do, and have certain goals that they want to game to achieve. Those things influence why they do certain things….like making the points character bound in WvW rather than account bound for example. To them, it made perfect sense. However, to us players it made no sense. Different perspectives and approaches is all. Just because they come to the conclusion after the fact that their initial view was wrong does not mean that they can just flip a switch and fix it. MMOs are intricate puzzles of code and even simple things should require rigorous integration testing.

While it true that two heads are better than one, it is also true that no team will ever be able to see all the perspectives. There will always be someone else that has one that they didn’t think up.

I don’t think it took they CDI to make them have their aha moment. I’m sure they’d had it, after the flood of posts and the vocalness of the players in game. However, the CDI did give them a localized, easily managed version of gripes and suggested fixes in addition to whatever their own thoughts had been, and gave them the very visible ability to respond to the players (which is also something we’ve hollered for). Essentially killed 2 birds with one stone.

defrule.7236:

Numbers don’t tell lies, period. Take a look at this two builds

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|1.5g.h2.0.0.0|7.5g.h2.9.5g.h4.0.0.0|5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.0.0.0.0.0.0|2s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0|u59b.0.0.a5.u69c|39.1|5x.6b.61.69.6m|e

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|1.1g.h2.0.0.0|7.1g.h2.9.1g.h4.0.0.0|1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.0.0.0.0.0.0|1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67|u59b.0.0.a5.u69c|39.1|5x.6b.61.69.6m|e

One is full ascended and the other is full exotic. The effective power on the ascended build is 14% higher than the exotic build. That to me is very significant.

That’s because you’re doing it wrong.

Well… not doing it wrong… looking at it wrong. Combat in GW2 isn’t about what you can put out for damage (at least from a WvW perspective). There are also factors that involve damage reduction or prevention as well. That 14% perceived advantage can be negated with a single dodge for example timed well. When you look beyond the “perfect example against a dummy just standing there”, the reality is that even that 14% doesn’t mean squat in the grand scheme of things.

all true. again, people are quite bored and angry at it.
i think they should choose more wisely their perspectives xD

and…to be totally sincere, i think they considered many players “expendable”.
who cares for a part of population ragequitting?
we’ll earn even more players if we can provide a hardcore grinding.
they knew what they said in the beginning, and our hopes.
just broke promises because of money.

i trust people. and i know that it’s all around money in the world.
but they’ll not earn a coin from me

VOLKON.1290:

defrule.7236:

Numbers don’t tell lies, period. Take a look at this two builds

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|1.5g.h2.0.0.0|7.5g.h2.9.5g.h4.0.0.0|5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.0.0.0.0.0.0|2s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0|u59b.0.0.a5.u69c|39.1|5x.6b.61.69.6m|e

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|1.1g.h2.0.0.0|7.1g.h2.9.1g.h4.0.0.0|1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.0.0.0.0.0.0|1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67|u59b.0.0.a5.u69c|39.1|5x.6b.61.69.6m|e

One is full ascended and the other is full exotic. The effective power on the ascended build is 14% higher than the exotic build. That to me is very significant.

That’s because you’re doing it wrong.

Well… not doing it wrong… looking at it wrong. Combat in GW2 isn’t about what you can put out for damage (at least from a WvW perspective). There are also factors that involve damage reduction or prevention as well. That 14% perceived advantage can be negated with a single dodge for example timed well. When you look beyond the “perfect example against a dummy just standing there”, the reality is that even that 14% doesn’t mean squat in the grand scheme of things.

Getting real tired of the dishonest argumentation where people try to attach a zero value to a non zero advantage. You can’t dodge everything, of course. Want to try again?

All of this can be solved with one small change.

Limit the time of buy and sell orders.

Noone’s going to keep putting Eternity up there at 3k if they have to pay “taxes” on reposting a sell order every three days to a week.. ALL of the big ticket items come down to realistic expectations with this one change because people are pricing their mats and weapons to move, not to stay there on the TP.

Those who want to play the TP, can play the short game and still win. Those who get precursors are still able to get a good chunk of money for them, but not for overwhelmingly high amounts of gold They also don’t NEED overwhelming amounts of gold to buy what they want, so it all shakes out.

It’ll involve a little more care being put into what prices you want to set for things, but you also don’t have stupidly high amounts of practcially worthless things on the TP either. People who want lots of stuff to sell need to buy bank tabs/collection expanders for the things they want to speculate with, so Anet wins too.

That. Fixes. Everything.

/thread

Dark Catalyst.1028:

VOLKON.1290:

defrule.7236:

Numbers don’t tell lies, period. Take a look at this two builds

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|1.5g.h2.0.0.0|7.5g.h2.9.5g.h4.0.0.0|5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.0.0.0.0.0.0|2s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0|u59b.0.0.a5.u69c|39.1|5x.6b.61.69.6m|e

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|1.1g.h2.0.0.0|7.1g.h2.9.1g.h4.0.0.0|1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.0.0.0.0.0.0|1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67|u59b.0.0.a5.u69c|39.1|5x.6b.61.69.6m|e

One is full ascended and the other is full exotic. The effective power on the ascended build is 14% higher than the exotic build. That to me is very significant.

That’s because you’re doing it wrong.

Well… not doing it wrong… looking at it wrong. Combat in GW2 isn’t about what you can put out for damage (at least from a WvW perspective). There are also factors that involve damage reduction or prevention as well. That 14% perceived advantage can be negated with a single dodge for example timed well. When you look beyond the “perfect example against a dummy just standing there”, the reality is that even that 14% doesn’t mean squat in the grand scheme of things.

Getting real tired of the dishonest argumentation where people try to attach a zero value to a non zero advantage. You can’t dodge everything, of course. Want to try again?

Well, actually I can dodge everything, I just can’t do it forever. However I can also block, blind, cripple, knock back, disappear, etc. I can take your boons for myself and give you my conditions in return if I think they’d look better on you. There’s a ton more to mitigation and avoidance than just dodging.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

teegees.9638:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I just gotta laugh over people talking about endless raid grinds in WoW. You can only complete them once per week and I spend about 4-5 hours doing so because it’s real, permanent content and it’s actually fun. How long would it take me to gear one character in GW2 if I only spent 4-5 hrs a week in game?

0 weeks.

You’d have enough money saved from leveling to buy multiple sets of level 80 exotics.

What if I want to do high level fractals? Or serious WvW. You need ascended.

You don’t need ascended for WvW serious or otherwise. You hardly even need exotics.

You do need ascended for high level fractals but I would still say 0 weeks. By the time you reach the fractal level where you need ascended you could easily have made yourself a full set.

Furthermore there is nothing new at high level fractals. Anything you can see or acquire in them can be seen or acquired through other means. As such you only ever need exotic gear to reach a point where you can see and experience all the content of the game without ever having to worry about having enough gear.

teegees.9638:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

teegees.9638:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I just gotta laugh over people talking about endless raid grinds in WoW. You can only complete them once per week and I spend about 4-5 hours doing so because it’s real, permanent content and it’s actually fun. How long would it take me to gear one character in GW2 if I only spent 4-5 hrs a week in game?

0 weeks.

You’d have enough money saved from leveling to buy multiple sets of level 80 exotics.

What if I want to do high level fractals? Or serious WvW. You need ascended.

You don’t need ascended for WvW serious or otherwise. You hardly even need exotics.

You do need ascended for high level fractals but I would still say 0 weeks. By the time you reach the fractal level where you need ascended you could easily have made yourself a full set.

Furthermore there is nothing new at high level fractals. Anything you can see or acquire in them can be seen or acquired through other means. As such you only ever need exotic gear to reach a point where you can see and experience all the content of the game without ever having to worry about having enough gear.

if it’s true, just remove ascended.
if nobody truly needs it, why introduce it and why bis?
legrndaries were still rare and only few people got them.
and nobody had colldcted them all.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I just gotta laugh over people talking about endless raid grinds in WoW. You can only complete them once per week and I spend about 4-5 hours doing so because it’s real, permanent content and it’s actually fun. How long would it take me to gear one character in GW2 if I only spent 4-5 hrs a week in game?

Define your parameters and I’ll take you up on an experiment to see how long it would take me to get a character to 80 and Exotic. I suspect it’ll go easier than you think, because I was 80 on my main character and in Exotic before Lost Shores, primarily due to the Temple of Balthazar event I was lucky enough to finish AND have the Karma banked up (from never using it, ever) for the armor there.

Kevan.8912:

teegees.9638:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

teegees.9638:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I just gotta laugh over people talking about endless raid grinds in WoW. You can only complete them once per week and I spend about 4-5 hours doing so because it’s real, permanent content and it’s actually fun. How long would it take me to gear one character in GW2 if I only spent 4-5 hrs a week in game?

0 weeks.

You’d have enough money saved from leveling to buy multiple sets of level 80 exotics.

What if I want to do high level fractals? Or serious WvW. You need ascended.

You don’t need ascended for WvW serious or otherwise. You hardly even need exotics.

You do need ascended for high level fractals but I would still say 0 weeks. By the time you reach the fractal level where you need ascended you could easily have made yourself a full set.

Furthermore there is nothing new at high level fractals. Anything you can see or acquire in them can be seen or acquired through other means. As such you only ever need exotic gear to reach a point where you can see and experience all the content of the game without ever having to worry about having enough gear.

if it’s true, just remove ascended.
if nobody truly needs it, why introduce it and why bis?
legrndaries were still rare and only few people got them.
and nobody had colldcted them all.

Because it’s a game and for a not insignificant portion of MMO fans chasing gear upgrades is fun in its own right.

laokoko.7403:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

laokoko.7403:

And if you only wvw, kittened to be you. Since you can’t make money from wvw.

I’m going to call your bluff. I’ve made money at WvW before, just not at off-peak hours. All you have to do is not spend it on Golems getting blown up in ill-advises uses and not bankrolling upgrades for places which aren’t getting defended.

Also, sell everything.

I barely WvW. Havn’t even played the game for a few month so I don’t know how much things changed.

I mean WvW make much less money than PvE. At least it is like that before.

Well if your not hell bent on having the very best say +14 more of a main you can make a lot of profit from running wvw due to the new gear. All the silk has gone up in price a great deal making it a good idea to brake down items that you may have just npc for money. All the items that are only made for braking down in the cloth have all gone up a great deal too making there drops something you can sell for a good bit.

If your the type of person who can get about from instant gratification you can make a lot of profit from wvw.

cesmode.4257:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

However, if they simply give us more ways to obtain it, I think it might make people less cranky.

The fact that it required an official arenanet created forum thread under the umbrella power of the CDI, for them to have an “aha” moment and realize that we would like more ways to acquire ascended than crafting…angers me. No, change that..it just frustrates me. I am dumbfounded that they, again, could not see this coming. It seems that very little future planning goes on when they make decisions because something like this is a no brainer. Either they didn’t see it coming, or they knew it but didn’t give us alternatives because they thought they knew better. Either way, it leaves many frustrated players in their wake.

They do realise, the CDI is just for PR. Everything in the CDI threads, perhaps with the exception of the current one, has been raised in the forum before. Whats more the suggestions are things that the devs should have come up with themselves as professional game developers anyway.

What currently angers me and something that has only really become clear since the CDI vertical progression thread ended is that OK they want us to craft ascended armor. By this method it takes 36 days to craft a set of light armor, 25 days for heavy and 24 days for medium. This is manifestly ridiculous when they want crafting to be the main way to obtain ascended armor and something that should not have made it through their testing process, assuming its not deliberate. But then its been clear almost since the release of the game that their QA processes are woefully inadequate.

Achieving the best gear is not a grind unless you feel like playing the game’s content is a grind. Materials for ascended equipment is found in virtually every aspect of the game. Most of the problem is, in my opinion, in the mentality of the players. A player can complete any content and see progress in their ascended gear acquisition.

Zhaitan.2578:

Achieving the best gear is not a grind unless you feel like playing the game’s content is a grind. Materials for ascended equipment is found in virtually every aspect of the game.

So if I only want to do dungeons I can get dragonite ore in reasonable quantity?

The threads about ascended gear on this forum contain the most overwrought complaining-about-nothing that I’ve ever seen in nearly a decade of playing MMOs.

VOLKON.1290:

defrule.7236:

Numbers don’t tell lies, period. Take a look at this two builds

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|1.5g.h2.0.0.0|7.5g.h2.9.5g.h4.0.0.0|5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.0.0.0.0.0.0|2s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0|u59b.0.0.a5.u69c|39.1|5x.6b.61.69.6m|e

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|1.1g.h2.0.0.0|7.1g.h2.9.1g.h4.0.0.0|1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.0.0.0.0.0.0|1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67|u59b.0.0.a5.u69c|39.1|5x.6b.61.69.6m|e

One is full ascended and the other is full exotic. The effective power on the ascended build is 14% higher than the exotic build. That to me is very significant.

That’s because you’re doing it wrong.

Well… not doing it wrong… looking at it wrong. Combat in GW2 isn’t about what you can put out for damage (at least from a WvW perspective). There are also factors that involve damage reduction or prevention as well. That 14% perceived advantage can be negated with a single dodge for example timed well. When you look beyond the “perfect example against a dummy just standing there”, the reality is that even that 14% doesn’t mean squat in the grand scheme of things.

If you did +200% damage, it can also be negated by a well timed dodge. But what is your point? Because surely that doesn’t mean +200% damage “means squat in the grand scheme of things”.

The different between you and I is that I don’t take shades of grey, because if you allow for it, developers start pushing it. What if they release more tiers of gear until it reaches YOUR threshold of significance?

In my last game they actually started selling stat increases in their store. At first the increase was small and people defended it saying “oh the increase is insignificant”. The developers started pushing the line further and further, and suddenly the stats increase is not so insignificant as it once was. Credit to all the defenders who supported it to happen, even they were annoyed when suddenly powerful high ranking skills could be bought in the store.

Everybody for whom ascended is not a grind. Help me get full ascended for all my 8 alts, you are having fun grinding anyway.
Or give me yours, you don’t need it anyway as you are such a good players that can constantly dodge everything in white gear.

i think the main reason is that a number of ppl dont want to do dungs, or do, fracs etc etc

Hence how else can u attain a ascended armor? simple answer – crafting is the sure way.

but rather get it all in 1 day u have to work towards it. same as we did for exotics.. however crafting provides the chance for ALL to “attain” ascended, just because the option is there doesn’t mean u HAVE to. but don’t mistake that for i SHOULD have it because of such and such…

the only other option is to put it up in the laurel vendor and have ppl farm their dailies to get their items. having them drop is probably the same rate as a precursor…

Yeah u might have to farm the gold/materials but its still a sure way to get them..

Chaotic Storm.2815:

Short answer to your evil question= Its not a forced grind.

In WoW you HAD to upgrade every few months and even then the time model your talking about was for the elite groups. Guild wars 2 carters more to the regular players and the casual more then the elites.
I actually enjoy the gear here because its less of a “your gear score is a little lower then what we want so your gonna be left out, sorry.” and more of a “welcome to the group friend. I see you spend some extra time to get that sweet weapon/armor skin. very nice”

While I dislike how grindy the new ascended gear is, I can say that you are correct. Exotic gear is viable enough that nobody is requiring you to be in full ascended to run with them. If they are, you probably shouldn’t be running with them.

I still think that the new ascended gear should have a stagger effect where the time to make another lessens significantly after you’ve made a whole set. That way the burden gets lighter for those with alts, but it remains challenging for those that only plan to make 1 set.

FuriousPop.2789:

i think the main reason is that a number of ppl dont want to do dungs, or do, fracs etc etc

Hence how else can u attain a ascended armor? simple answer – crafting is the sure way.

A large proportion of players dislike crafting and didn’t want to be forced to craft to 500. A better sure way is a token system, they already have one in place for ascended with laurels. Or even allow ascended items to be sold on the TP.

WRay.2391:

Everybody for whom ascended is not a grind. Help me get full ascended for all my 8 alts, you are having fun grinding anyway.
Or give me yours, you don’t need it anyway as you are such a good players that can constantly dodge everything in white gear.

I can’t even imagine having a full set of top gear on 8 alts in any other mmorpg.

Maybe that’s why wow players joke about GW2’s endgame being making alt.

VOLKON.1290:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

VOLKON.1290:

defrule.7236:

Numbers don’t tell lies, period. Take a look at this two builds

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|1.5g.h2.0.0.0|7.5g.h2.9.5g.h4.0.0.0|5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.5g.7e.0.0.0.0.0.0|2s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0|u59b.0.0.a5.u69c|39.1|5x.6b.61.69.6m|e

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|1.1g.h2.0.0.0|7.1g.h2.9.1g.h4.0.0.0|1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.0.0.0.0.0.0|1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67|u59b.0.0.a5.u69c|39.1|5x.6b.61.69.6m|e

One is full ascended and the other is full exotic. The effective power on the ascended build is 14% higher than the exotic build. That to me is very significant.

That’s because you’re doing it wrong.

Well… not doing it wrong… looking at it wrong. Combat in GW2 isn’t about what you can put out for damage (at least from a WvW perspective). There are also factors that involve damage reduction or prevention as well. That 14% perceived advantage can be negated with a single dodge for example timed well. When you look beyond the “perfect example against a dummy just standing there”, the reality is that even that 14% doesn’t mean squat in the grand scheme of things.

Getting real tired of the dishonest argumentation where people try to attach a zero value to a non zero advantage. You can’t dodge everything, of course. Want to try again?

Well, actually I can dodge everything, I just can’t do it forever. However I can also block, blind, cripple, knock back, disappear, etc. I can take your boons for myself and give you my conditions in return if I think they’d look better on you. There’s a ton more to mitigation and avoidance than just dodging.

all of which has nothing to do with anything. Everything you just said applies equally to having ascended gear or running around completely naked. Yet somehow I don’t think you’d argue against that running around naked would make you less efficient.

14% is 14% regardless of how you try to spin it. If I do 14% more damage then I do 14% more damage, does wearing ascended armor make it easier for people to use all those things against me or do they still use them the same regardless if i’m in ascended armor or naked?

morrolan.9608:

FuriousPop.2789:

i think the main reason is that a number of ppl dont want to do dungs, or do, fracs etc etc

Hence how else can u attain a ascended armor? simple answer – crafting is the sure way.

A large proportion of players dislike crafting and didn’t want to be forced to craft to 500. A better sure way is a token system, they already have one in place for ascended with laurels. Or even allow ascended items to be sold on the TP.

i didn’t think most people dislike crafting since its almost in every MMORPG i have ever come across.

but hey +1 for adding it to the laurel vendor and/or on the TP.

I’m confused… I used to play Everquest, and that was a grind. In fact, pretty much all of the game play I can remember in EQ was grinding, aside from the quest here and there.

I’ve also played Aion. That was a super grind for gear. I have 400 hours on it on steam from a year or 2 just to get a full set of level 30 armor when the max level was 50 or something like that at the time.

GW 2? I haven’t noticed any grind. In fact, I’d say it’s the least grindy MMO I’ve ever played in my life. The worst grinding I’ve experienced is dungeons to get exotic gear from there… which is just as good stat-wise as bought gear for relatively cheap so meh.

morrolan.9608:

FuriousPop.2789:

i think the main reason is that a number of ppl dont want to do dungs, or do, fracs etc etc

Hence how else can u attain a ascended armor? simple answer – crafting is the sure way.

A large proportion of players dislike crafting and didn’t want to be forced to craft to 500. A better sure way is a token system, they already have one in place for ascended with laurels. Or even allow ascended items to be sold on the TP.

I totally agree laurels and dailies were a brilliant idea. A way to have a long term goal without having it be grindy at all. Unfortunately people complained endlessly about that system, I personally had a lot of discussions on the subject arguing with people that removing time gated currencies would be a bad idea since unlike the wrong perception at the time that would not make getting rewards faster just much more grinder.

The whole core problem in my opinion is people just cant accept the fact that by design it has to take about 15 – 20 days per ascended gear piece. Perhaps worst then that is most people just cant see why its important that this doesnt change.

In anycase now that people have finally seen what they wanted wasnt what they needed lets hope Arenanet decide to go back to put laurels central to long term goals cause in my opinion that one thing would eliminate a lot of grind.

Le Pecheur.2074:

I’m confused… I used to play Everquest, and that was a grind. In fact, pretty much all of the game play I can remember in EQ was grinding, aside from the quest here and there.

I’ve also played Aion. That was a super grind for gear. I have 400 hours on it on steam from a year or 2 just to get a full set of level 30 armor when the max level was 50 or something like that at the time.

GW 2? I haven’t noticed any grind. In fact, I’d say it’s the least grindy MMO I’ve ever played in my life. The worst grinding I’ve experienced is dungeons to get exotic gear from there… which is just as good stat-wise as bought gear for relatively cheap so meh.

again, people just don’t care if any other game was less or more grindy.
there souldn’t be any grind AT ALL, dungeon or skin or anything, according to advertising they sold the game with.
but, ok, let’s try to accept it.

but, BiS grind no. it’s totally out of gw2 goals.
don’t care if gw1 was grinding. or if other mmo need even more hours to get it.
just excuses for people who like it.