Guild Wars 2

Love her! You implemented her very tastefully. Thanks, ANet!

Mar/Kas was horribly written, and it did smell of pushing an agenda. But the alleged agenda was sidetracked by the fact the pairing reeked of bad fanfiction like many people already wrote.

Symon/Sya is one NPC. He wont talk about it
unless you ask.

Heres to hoping we see more good relationships between well written characters no matter what their orientation.

‘They’ is improper grammar. -sniffs the air-
Just saying.

Beats arguments made from indignant outrage.

I don’t get the uproar about whether to use he or she. If that’s what the person wants, what’s the problem? You’re not putting forth your own beliefs, or the definitive word on science or religion. Just respecting what another person wants, what makes them comfortable, what makes them feel accepted. It’s not up to some gamer to ‘fix’ another person, about an issue that may well not require your assistance, anyway. Just – this nice little in game touch may make someone happy, feel more accepted, included – I see NO problem with that. Basically, what does it matter what you think about the issue? It’s not there for you, it’s there to make someone else more comfortable.

Big hugs for cookies to ANet for doing this.

And some of the comments show why it is so important to include such things in the most normal way possible. Because existence is neither a problem or political issue. It is, well … normal.

Now we need some mentioning of walking on Anise and Cranach in a situation that invovled ropes, chians and other items … because I swear those two are the least vanilla couple in the game right now ;P

Oh.. and I actually liked Kas and Jory. I found their flirting rather enjoyable in all its cheesy glory. And I actually think they are a sweet couple.

Rin Shian.1932:

Big hugs for cookies to ANet for doing this.

And some of the comments show why it is so important to include such things in the most normal way possible. Because existence is neither a problem or political issue. It is, well … normal.

Now we need some mentioning of walking on Anise and Cranach in a situation that invovled ropes, chians and other items … because I swear those two are the least vanilla couple in the game right now ;P

Oh.. and I actually liked Kas and Jory. I found their flirting rather enjoyable in all its cheesy glory. And I actually think they are a sweet couple.

Yep, Anise is definitely not vanilla. When do we get a mini of her, I can’t wait to have her following me around !

People, actually don’t like the kasmeer and marjory stuff? i honestly don’t care. seems was pretty kitten funny. I must say the relationship between the salad and the beetroot. is way, and way, and way better. like a 10 times better.

Anyways I also notice that a couple of people are feeling victimised, as if they feel it’s shove down thier throat. So far you have 2 lesbian couples and 1 Transgender NPC. In the entire game. U only deal with the lesbians in some Living world story and some dungeons.

As for the NPC. U don’t even need to talk to her. Why do you hear that the more controversial ideals are shoved down your face, but values such as captialism(trading post and alike), Perfectionism(Asura with thier I’m smarter then you stuff), Heck you can even twist the whole benn tenstrikes thing into A net forcing men to be heterosexual as at the end of the game, Heck then don’t forget your trusty sidekick, Lord Faren, this guy is as thirsty for women meat as you can get. just after you beat zhaitan, you hear his parents contemplating about him finding a suitable female mate.

Nothing is bieng forced down your throat. It’s nothing different then people expressing thier opinion. If they kept even more to themselves it’d be essentially arguing for people you don’t agree with to shut the kitten up until they are asked to do so considering thier very low presence in the game at this point in time. It’s just a game. You can ignore the transgender mesmer, u can ignore jory and kasmeer for the most of the game. And same for the salad and beetroot.

honestly it’s just really concerning how much people will say this ‘agenda’ is being pushed down their throats and then when something subtle and progressive is implemented, they go out of their way to let everyone know how personally offended they are.

also lol to people expecting us to be excited and quick to listen to their lengthy but poorly spelled list of why exactly they dislike us

Testudo.4620:

honestly it’s just really concerning how much people will say this ‘agenda’ is being pushed down their throats and then when something subtle and progressive is implemented, they go out of their way to let everyone know how personally offended they are.

Oh, the irony.

Kury.8210:

‘They’ is improper grammar. -sniffs the air-
Just saying.

Beats arguments made from indignant outrage.

Oxford would beg to differ: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/words/he-or-she-versus-they

Might I also suggest getting yourself some tissues, you seem to have developed a bit of a snuffly nose there.

OMG… TG-theme longs since 1930-s and still is a thing??? Is this some kind of partially Groundhog Day reality?

I think it’s awesome. And Kas/Jory are awesome—out of all the LS characters, they’re my favorites. Literally anyone in my guild could tell you I gush like that around one of my guildies.
It’s just nice to have your favorite getaway from the violent and unforgiving real world look at you and say, “Hey, you. You exist, and that’s okay, and we support you.”

Maybe at least one person will look at that and keep going for another day. It’s the little things.

DarksunG.9537:

Harper.4173:

jesters.9406:

Chrono.6928:

jesters.9406:

Chrono.6928:

Snip

Snip

Snip

Snip

Since when can’t people speak their mind? If someone has an unpopular opinion they should just shut up now?
Just like you have a right to be and have your opinions – so does he. He might be wrong or not – stop using the fact that you’re different as some form of magical shield.

The message seems to be: “what I like makes me morally superior”. It’s not enough for people to be tolerant, you have to agree & support & like. It’s hilariously hypocritical.

You tolerate pain, not people.

That aside, you also seem very uptight that I suggested someone take a moment to think. How curious. Maybe it was something you ate. I have heard peppermint tea helps with that.

Fairly minor character, and the conversation was quite subtle.

If there wasn’t already a whole ‘discourse’ with TG on the forums, no one would have really given any larger thoughts to the subject.

I like the change since it wasn’t implemented in an overbearing and forced manner.

tumblr – tier game doing tumblr -tier things. How surprising.

Have to agree so much. That just made my day yesterday. Thank you so much, Arenanet!

Of course the Jack Thompson types will rage about this, like they do about us just existing, but oh well.

Cool that they implemented that I suppose, though I personally don’t have any interest in the matter. Bit bummed to see all the arguing but with a subject like this it is bound to happen. Also I read that Oxford article and people are seriously offended by ‘he’ ‘she’? That really took the wind out of my sails.

ok so arenanet does not like my opinion. (which would agree in general that humans are humans), very funny.

Kudos to Anet though this is a minor NPC it’s in game and that’s important.

To anyone against Anet fully representing human sexuality and gender identity in a completely non offensive or gratuitous manner I pity you.

Testudo.4620:

honestly it’s just really concerning how much people will say this ‘agenda’ is being pushed down their throats and then when something subtle and progressive is implemented, they go out of their way to let everyone know how personally offended they are.

also lol to people expecting us to be excited and quick to listen to their lengthy but poorly spelled list of why exactly they dislike us

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Varrg.2704:

tumblr – tier game doing tumblr -tier things. How surprising.

Lol, apparently transgender people only exist in Tumblr. I guess Caitlyn Jenner also doesn’t exist outside of Tumblr? Is she just a tumblr thing?

Traveller.7496:

If he was a major NPC (or even if he’s not), and the plot calls for him to die, would you treat it as any other NPC dying, or would you be outraged how ANet killed a transgendered character? If you said yes to the latter question, then you are not ready for equality.

Ahem… I should note, you should be using ‘she’, not ‘he’ in this case. Sure, it’s just a character in a game whose feelings you couldn’t hurt, but going out of your way to use the wrong pronouns shows that you don’t really understand equality either.

SunFireDemon.5014:

Personally I liked the game better when sexual preference was left out of the game entirely. Why use it to promote or push one agenda or another.

Agreed. They should remove all mentions of heterosexuality from the game, the game was better when it didn’t have that stuff. It’s pushing the heterosexual agenda.

I don’t hate heteros btw, I even have some of them as friends somewhere, so I can say this without being mean. I’m just against this pushing of the heterosexual agenda. Why can’t games just be games like they used to be? Games should only be about blocks, like in Pong or Space Invaders.

Maunzi.3764:

SunFireDemon.5014:

Personally I liked the game better when sexual preference was left out of the game entirely. Why use it to promote or push one agenda or another.

Agreed. They should remove all mentions of heterosexuality from the game, the game was better when it didn’t have that stuff. It’s pushing the heterosexual agenda.

I don’t hate heteros btw, I even have some of them as friends somewhere, so I can say this without being mean. I’m just against this pushing of the heterosexual agenda. Why can’t games just be games like they used to be? Games should only be about blocks, like in Pong or Space Invaders.

I love you. Please, keep up the sarcastic responses to these idiots. It’s the only way they can possibly see the ridiculousness of everything they say.

Yay, Anet. Way to go!

Everyone should be represented in all games. There is no exclusivity in the gaming world and there shouldn’t be.

There is also nothing political about it. She’s not trying to take over Queen Jenna’s job lol.

Can I just remind everyone that we’re talking about 1 NPC with 3 or 4 lines of dialogue who is simply standing in LA? She is not part of the story, or even a dynamic event. You do not have to speak to her unless you want to.

I suspect many people in this thread would never even have noticed her if it wasn’t for the topic. (In fact I’ve seen several people giving their opinion on Anet’s “statement” and then coming back to say they cannot even find the NPC in question!)

I hardly think this is Anet making a statement or going out of their way to promote any gender or lifestyle and certainly not forcing an agenda on you, me or anyone else. If you’d be ok with it as long as it’s not overt and you can ignore it then you’ve already got exactly what you wanted.

Unless you also consider NPCs mentioning the fact that they have a wife or husband if you speak to them to be Anet making a statement on traditional families and pushing a pro-marriage agenda?

Maunzi.3764:

SunFireDemon.5014:

Personally I liked the game better when sexual preference was left out of the game entirely. Why use it to promote or push one agenda or another.

Agreed. They should remove all mentions of heterosexuality from the game, the game was better when it didn’t have that stuff. It’s pushing the heterosexual agenda.

How do you remove all heterosexualy from the game, delete every race that is not sylvari. Guess anet could add a robot race as well to give people some options. Limit yourself real bad though since most races as we know them kinda need heterosexuality to have a functioning society.

Shinji.2063:

Maunzi.3764:

SunFireDemon.5014:

Personally I liked the game better when sexual preference was left out of the game entirely. Why use it to promote or push one agenda or another.

Agreed. They should remove all mentions of heterosexuality from the game, the game was better when it didn’t have that stuff. It’s pushing the heterosexual agenda.

How do you remove all heterosexualy from the game, delete every race that is not sylvari. Guess anet could add a robot race as well to give people some options. Limit yourself real bad though since most races as we know them kinda need heterosexuality to have a functioning society.

You have trouble detecting sarcasm, don’t you…?
They’re saying things that homophobes and transphobes say, except replacing homosexuality/transgender with heterosexuality.

Well, I’m a bit old-fashioned in that sense, if I know it’s a guy in womens clothing, I tend to think of him/her as a dude. But if I wouldn’t know, then yeah I would think of him/her as a woman.

Traveller.7496:

Well, I’m a bit old-fashioned in that sense, if I know it’s a guy in womens clothing, I tend to think of him/her as a dude. But if I wouldn’t know, then yeah I would think of him/her as a woman.

Except it’s not. It’s actually a woman in a man’s body in a woman’s clothing.
If you want to doubt that, you can go ahead and tell the medical professionals that spent their time studying body dysmorphic disorder to go kitten themselves too.

This seems like a debate one should not get into, so I’ll drop it here.

Tere.4759:

There is also nothing political about it. She’s not trying to take over Queen Jenna’s job lol.

For random people there’s nothing political, for important – it is, especially when you have hereditary monarchy. Queen Jennah is also a mesmer.

Imagine, Krytan people wait for their beloved queen to get married and give birth to a heir, and suddenly they learn she’s not a queen, but a dude who likes wearing makeup and dresses. A certain Roman empreror comes to mind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elagabalus

The Ministry and Separatists would get a lot support.

I identify myself as a Cartwheel, WHY is there no humans that has been transformed to a cartwheel?

This is awfull really, no carthwheels, there is no kittens, spastics, lepers and a lot more, do not just include one that is discrimination, include ALL or none.

Shinji.2063:

Maunzi.3764:

SunFireDemon.5014:

Personally I liked the game better when sexual preference was left out of the game entirely. Why use it to promote or push one agenda or another.

Agreed. They should remove all mentions of heterosexuality from the game, the game was better when it didn’t have that stuff. It’s pushing the heterosexual agenda.

How do you remove all heterosexualy from the game, delete every race that is not sylvari. Guess anet could add a robot race as well to give people some options. Limit yourself real bad though since most races as we know them kinda need heterosexuality to have a functioning society.

It’s fine to have heterosexual characters. They just shouldn’t show heterosexual couples together or have NPCs talking about it so they’re not pushing their agenda on people or turning the game into a pro-heterosexuality statement.

(Yes this is also sarcasm.)

Azzer.8137:

I identify myself as a Cartwheel, WHY is there no humans that has been transformed to a cartwheel?

This is awfull really, no carthwheels, there is no kittens, spastics, lepers and a lot more, do not just include one that is discrimination, include ALL or none.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disorder

Also, I imagine ‘spastics’ (which is a slur, btw) wouldn’t like you using them for your nonsensical transphobic arguments.

It’s different, but ultimately pointless and lacks any relevance to the game itself.

While some members of the community will interpret it as some kind of recognition, others will see it as Anet just trying to be edgy.

To me personally, I can’t care less because I would have never talked to the NPC in the first place.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

People, actually don’t like the kasmeer and marjory stuff? i honestly don’t care. seems was pretty kitten funny. I must say the relationship between the salad and the beetroot. is way, and way, and way better. like a 10 times better.

Anyways I also notice that a couple of people are feeling victimised, as if they feel it’s shove down thier throat. So far you have 2 lesbian couples and 1 Transgender NPC. In the entire game. U only deal with the lesbians in some Living world story and some dungeons.

As for the NPC. U don’t even need to talk to her. Why do you hear that the more controversial ideals are shoved down your face, but values such as captialism(trading post and alike), Perfectionism(Asura with thier I’m smarter then you stuff), Heck you can even twist the whole benn tenstrikes thing into A net forcing men to be heterosexual as at the end of the game, Heck then don’t forget your trusty sidekick, Lord Faren, this guy is as thirsty for women meat as you can get. just after you beat zhaitan, you hear his parents contemplating about him finding a suitable female mate.

Nothing is bieng forced down your throat. It’s nothing different then people expressing thier opinion. If they kept even more to themselves it’d be essentially arguing for people you don’t agree with to shut the kitten up until they are asked to do so considering thier very low presence in the game at this point in time. It’s just a game. You can ignore the transgender mesmer, u can ignore jory and kasmeer for the most of the game. And same for the salad and beetroot.

The problem with Jory and Kasmeer is the following :

1. It is extremely cheesy – some of the lines are so bad it made me want to quit the story then and there.

2.It is shoved down our throats – I don’t care and I’m pretty sure most players don’t care about their romance. I don’t care they’re lesbians. I care about killing dragons – this is what I came to this game for. I came here for a decent story – not for cheesy love story things.

3.People think we have a problem with them because they’re lesbians. This for me is not true ( and I’m willing to bet that the situation is similar for most players). I have a problem with them because their cheesy romance story is all up in my face in MY personal story that’s supposed to be about fighting dragons.

I couldn’t care less if they were male and female or both male. Stop pushing silly and cheesy romance stories in the middle of the living story.

I don’t want their “opinion” and I don’t care about their choices. If I had a choice I’d not even take them in the instances with me. I just want the story to focus on the fight against Mordremoth and spare me the useless “I love you Jory, I love you Kas” deadweight.

dervix.9126:

Traveller.7496:

If he was a major NPC (or even if he’s not), and the plot calls for him to die, would you treat it as any other NPC dying, or would you be outraged how ANet killed a transgendered character? If you said yes to the latter question, then you are not ready for equality.

Ahem… I should note, you should be using ‘she’, not ‘he’ in this case. Sure, it’s just a character in a game whose feelings you couldn’t hurt, but going out of your way to use the wrong pronouns shows that you don’t really understand equality either.

A man may be transgender, but no amount of surgery is going to remove that Y chromosome or give him a menstrual cycle. He’s still biologically male and will be called as such.
If you don’t like it you don’t have to follow suit, nor do you even have to pay it any mind.

Blackworm.2167:

dervix.9126:

Traveller.7496:

If he was a major NPC (or even if he’s not), and the plot calls for him to die, would you treat it as any other NPC dying, or would you be outraged how ANet killed a transgendered character? If you said yes to the latter question, then you are not ready for equality.

Ahem… I should note, you should be using ‘she’, not ‘he’ in this case. Sure, it’s just a character in a game whose feelings you couldn’t hurt, but going out of your way to use the wrong pronouns shows that you don’t really understand equality either.

A man may be transgender, but no amount of surgery is going to remove that Y chromosome or give him a menstrual cycle. He’s still biologically male and will be called as such.
If you don’t like it you don’t have to follow suit, nor do you even have to pay it any mind.

You seem to be confusing the concept of biological sex with gender, which are two related but different concepts. Why is their medical status so important to you, moreso than their identity? Why is the status of their Y chromosome important to you? Why does that matter to you so much that you have to go out of your way to make them feel uncomfortable rather than just be a nice human being and treat them with enough respect to assume they know their identity better than you?

How arrogant and egotistical do you have to be to assert your superiority in such a petty way, rather than taking the all of 0 effort required to make someone else happy? Are you really so lacking in basic human empathy and sympathy? Do you really take so much pride in feeling like you know what’s best for others that you prioritize it over the feelings of the people you put down? Or are you just so lazy that you can’t say ‘she’ instead of ‘he’? Either way, there’s something wrong.

You can act like what you say isn’t hurting anyone with your stupid “if you don’t like it, just ignore it” rhetoric, but it doesn’t change the fact that you’re still hurting trans people and you’re still perpetuating a disgusting view of gender identity.

Oh! And, if you want to go the bullkitten """scientific""" route by bringing up Y chromosomes, again, you can walk up to every doctor who studied gender and body dysmorphic disorders and tell them to their face to go kitten themselves, and that you know better than them. You know better than all those professionals, don’t you? You know better than those people who spent years toiling over their identity and face persecution but still find it important enough to express their identity, don’t you? You know better than everyone.

Personally I think this threads is kind of getting out of hand, seeing some bitter comments being thrown around and seeing as how this is a forum for Guild Wars 2 and not a Yahoo! comment section I think it might be high time to shut this one down.

This is an amazing addition! Thank you ArenaNet!

Horrigan.6792:

I personally see no harm in this change and I openly encourage it. This is a fantasy game after all right? People pretend to be small little rodents, lumbering frost giants, ferocious feline warriors and even humanoid plants.

What’s the harm in a man pretending to be a woman? I think an RPG is the perfect format for that.

Well done ANET!

What an asinine statement.

;_;

I just deleted my posts. Don’t want to come off as bigoted, but I guess it’s too late xD. Guess I overreacted.

Woljnir.7810:

;_;

I just deleted my posts. Don’t want to come off as bigoted, but I guess it’s too late xD. Guess I overreacted.

Thank you for being mature enough to actually listen to reason and understand. I’ll delete my posts too.

So… in the world of Tyria…

What happens if your intimate partner uses a Total makeover kit mid action?

Bubi.7942:

So… in the world of Tyria…

What happens if your intimate partner uses a Total makeover kit mid action?

I just want to know when mesmers get a trait to use total make-over kits for free!

As wonderful an experience as yesterday’s patch was, learning about Sya ended up being the highlight of my day. It could only have been better if I had explored LA and stumbled upon her myself, but I was too busy swooning over mesmer changes to step foot in there. XD

Thanks to the dev who wrote her, and to ANet for another reminder of why GW2 is an awesome game.

To clarify:
Anything that others say is bad.

Anything that dervix says is good.

There, have a fun argument.

Blackworm.2167:

dervix.9126:

Traveller.7496:

If he was a major NPC (or even if he’s not), and the plot calls for him to die, would you treat it as any other NPC dying, or would you be outraged how ANet killed a transgendered character? If you said yes to the latter question, then you are not ready for equality.

Ahem… I should note, you should be using ‘she’, not ‘he’ in this case. Sure, it’s just a character in a game whose feelings you couldn’t hurt, but going out of your way to use the wrong pronouns shows that you don’t really understand equality either.

A man may be transgender, but no amount of surgery is going to remove that Y chromosome or give him a menstrual cycle. He’s still biologically male and will be called as such.
If you don’t like it you don’t have to follow suit, nor do you even have to pay it any mind.

I agree with you. No matter what a person wants to be called genetics are genetics. No amount of wishing will wish away your genetic make-up. He is still a correct pronoun.

You may not like it – but it is still correct and accurate when looking at things objectively.

I mean – look at it this way – if I wanted to be a cat, really aspired and emotionally identified with a cat – that’s all great but at the end of the day no matter how much I want people to refer to me as “it” and be a fluffy kitten I’m still a human being. You can’t change biology. You can’t change how people perceive you especially when their perceptions are objectively and scientifically correct.

Since the discussion in this thread is no longer constructive this thread is now closed.