Guild Wars 2

Gaile Gray.6029:

However… I believe we should be able to have a conversation about this without the moderator team being required to lock the thread. Don’t you agree? Especially when, as several forum members have pointed out, this is one NPC with a few lines of dialogue who it not part of the story or of an event. You may interact with her, or not, as you choose. Just as you may join this thread, or not. But if you do…

If you feel negatively towards the presence of this NPC, this optional, easily-avoided, easily-ignored NPC, please avoid her in the game and please consider not posting in this thread unless you can do so with respectful and constructive comments.

Thanks.

That really sums it up well. I’m completely disinterested in stories like this. Live and let live and don’t offer me your life story if I don’t ask you for it. I won’t search this NPC out nor will I care one iota that this NPC exists. No rage, no righteous indignation, no interest. No need to be insulting or rude, no need to sing any praises.

I think if everyone let everyone live their lives as they see fit (so long as they’re not doing harm to others) then stories like this, while happening everyday, would fade from the news and we’d all be better off simply allowing people to be people.

Harper.4173:

Blackworm.2167:

dervix.9126:

Traveller.7496:

If he was a major NPC (or even if he’s not), and the plot calls for him to die, would you treat it as any other NPC dying, or would you be outraged how ANet killed a transgendered character? If you said yes to the latter question, then you are not ready for equality.

Ahem… I should note, you should be using ‘she’, not ‘he’ in this case. Sure, it’s just a character in a game whose feelings you couldn’t hurt, but going out of your way to use the wrong pronouns shows that you don’t really understand equality either.

A man may be transgender, but no amount of surgery is going to remove that Y chromosome or give him a menstrual cycle. He’s still biologically male and will be called as such.
If you don’t like it you don’t have to follow suit, nor do you even have to pay it any mind.

I agree with you. No matter what a person wants to be called genetics are genetics. No amount of wishing will wish away your genetic make-up. He is still a correct pronoun.

You may not like it – but it is still correct and accurate when looking at things objectively.

I mean – look at it this way – if I wanted to be a cat, really aspired and emotionally identified with a cat – that’s all great but at the end of the day no matter how much I want people to refer to me as “it” and be a fluffy kitten I’m still a human being. You can’t change biology. You can’t change how people perceive you especially when their perceptions are objectively and scientifically correct.

See but here’s the thing. It’s called being trans gender because gender and sex are completely different. Sex is the biology and gender is the indentity. She may always have male genetics but will never be man. See the difference? Also refusing to call someone by what they prefer is very ignorant simply due to the fact that if you were to call me Robert because that’s my birth name and instead id prefer Bob most people would have no problem calling me by my preference. People just have issues with this particular topic because of their personal discomfort with things they can’t fully understand. That’s not me saying I DO understand however because I am not trans and can’t imagine how it feels to be someone in the wrong body. Good job anet.

Respect (even more) to Anet for this, its truly fantastic to see them care about the player.. ALL the players, I am very glad for those that wanted this and the LGBT community!

+

Just because somebody disagrees with something doesn’t make it not constructive. Shutting your ears to something because you don’t like somebodies opinion is not constructive though. With that said, live and let live.

I actually think it was really cool to stumble across this NPC while exploring, and I was delighted to see her dialogue very positive, both when she interacts with the Lionguard and the Player character! Many thanks indeed.

I appreciate the unlock, Ms. Gray, and I think it’s very cool that ANET has introduced this character. Well done, and well spotted!

Well done Anet for encouraging tolerance. Keep up the great work!

I’m sorry for any issues. But if I read that right, if we don’t agree we can’t voice out thoughts on it, even if it was in polite, non offensive manner where no one person was called out. We should just shut up and keep to ourselves? our thoughts don’t matter if they are not for it? As for this NPC being easily avoidable is not the issue. The fact that it is in the game is troubling. Not everyone is going to agree with it should be here and will only breed conflict, weather or not it is easily avoidable is irrelevant.

I love it. Thank you ANet for being so progressive and timely.

Fay.2735:

Well done Anet for encouraging tolerance. Keep up the great work!

I don’t see how this encourages tolerance. People aren’t going to change their opinion because of a transgender NPC in a video game. I say this because … well, you wouldn’t like my opinion on the matter. Anyway, now that I’m aware of this NPC I can assure you that it hasn’t influenced my opinion at all. It’s not a real person. It’s an NPC.

So I am not sure what the point of this is. I can see from this thread that it makes certain people happy but why? What is so great about this? Nobody is going to feel any differently on the issue due to the existence of this NPC.

Being a post op T woman myself, I am amazed and gratified. Thank you ANET.

Khristophoros.7194:

Fay.2735:

Well done Anet for encouraging tolerance. Keep up the great work!

I don’t see how this encourages tolerance. People aren’t going to change their opinion because of a transgender NPC in a video game. I say this because … well, you wouldn’t like my opinion on the matter. Anyway, now that I’m aware of this NPC I can assure you that it hasn’t influenced my opinion at all. It’s not a real person. It’s an NPC.

So I am not sure what the point of this is. I can see from this thread that it makes certain people happy but why? What is so great about this? Nobody is going to feel any differently on the issue due to the existence of this NPC.

For the same reason it’s important to have ethnically diverse casting in film or television. For the same reason it’s important to show representation to women. Small motions create the foundation of change.

SunFireDemon.5014:

I’m sorry for any issues. But if I read that right, if we don’t agree we can’t voice out thoughts on it, even if it was in polite, non offensive manner where no one person was called out. We should just shut up and keep to ourselves? our thoughts don’t matter if they are not for it? As for this NPC being easily avoidable is not the issue. The fact that it is in the game is troubling. Not everyone is going to agree with it should be here and will only breed conflict, weather or not it is easily avoidable is irrelevant.

No, you didn’t read it right. If someone wants to post something respectful and constructive, on either side of the discussion, then that’s great. If someone is going to wade in with “Ewww yuck, that’s disgusting! It’s being rubbed in my face! What’s the world coming to??!” (to use an extreme) then they are being politely asked to stay away.

Okay. I’m going to say this.

When I go out into the real world, I do not just see heterosexual non trans people in my life. Everyone who waits on me at the supermarket isn’t heterosexual. Everyone I stop to chat with walking to the game store isn’t heterosexual. There’s the possibility some of them might be trans as well. I’ll never know because I’ll never ask. I may be talking to a woman and find out she has a girlfriend or a guy I know is now dating his male best friend. I don’t go out into the real world and expect everyone to be heterosexual and not trans. I don’t assume everyone is heterosexual and not trans. I don’t balk when someone is themselves and reveals casually they aren’t heterosexual or are trans.

So why would I expect any different in a game world? Why would anyone? If you really think the real world is 99.9% heterosexual and not trans, then you need to get out a bit more. If you expect game worlds to adhere to a strictly heterosexual white washed standard, you are playing the wrong game.

You can say “I don’t need to know about anyone’s genitals or who they sleep with!!!” but you don’t react this way when you find out a character or a couple are heterosexual. You don’t balk at the talk about an NPC’s wife having a baby even though that directly says they had sex. You don’t whine about an agenda when Logan talks about his love and devotion for the Queen. There are no threads wishing Lord Faren would stop shoving his heterosexuality in your face. You don’t complain about man/woman romances. Ever. Yet it’s the exact same thing as Sya saying she was a man, as Kasmeer swooning over Majory, and Caithe’s pining for Faolain.

You only care when it’s not heterosexual because somehow, you see heterosexuality and not being trans as “the norm” and invisible. If someone tells you they’re gay and you are envisioning who they sleep with, you have the issue. If someone tells you they’re trans and you’re trying to imagine what’s between their legs, you have the issue. That is on you.

Khristophoros.7194:

Fay.2735:

Well done Anet for encouraging tolerance. Keep up the great work!

I don’t see how this encourages tolerance. People aren’t going to change their opinion because of a transgender NPC in a video game. I say this because … well, you wouldn’t like my opinion on the matter. Anyway, now that I’m aware of this NPC I can assure you that it hasn’t influenced my opinion at all. It’s not a real person. It’s an NPC.

So I am not sure what the point of this is. I can see from this thread that it makes certain people happy but why? What is so great about this? Nobody is going to feel any differently on the issue due to the existence of this NPC.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

With utmost focus on constructiveness, here’s my opinion on this: yes, the NPC is inconsequential, avoidable and irrelevant. But he is also unnecessary and inflammatory; one could say unnecessarily inflammatory.

Now, we all know that gaming community is rife with SJWs, Gamergate being the most stark proof thereof. And while respectful of ANET’s decision, I’d like to note my disappointment in their desire to jump onto the social justice bandwagon du jour.

You’re entitled to your opinion(s), I’m entitled to mine.

zenleto.6179:

SunFireDemon.5014:

I’m sorry for any issues. But if I read that right, if we don’t agree we can’t voice out thoughts on it, even if it was in polite, non offensive manner where no one person was called out. We should just shut up and keep to ourselves? our thoughts don’t matter if they are not for it? As for this NPC being easily avoidable is not the issue. The fact that it is in the game is troubling. Not everyone is going to agree with it should be here and will only breed conflict, weather or not it is easily avoidable is irrelevant.

No, you didn’t read it right. If someone wants to post something respectful and constructive, on either side of the discussion, then that’s great. If someone is going to wade in with “Ewww yuck, that’s disgusting! It’s being rubbed in my face! What’s the world coming to??!” (to use an extreme) then they are being politely asked to stay away.

Yeah, the exact wording of it is, “…please consider not posting in this thread unless you can do so with respectful and constructive comments.”

SunFireDemon.5014:

I’m sorry for any issues. But if I read that right, if we don’t agree we can’t voice out thoughts on it, even if it was in polite, non offensive manner where no one person was called out. We should just shut up and keep to ourselves? our thoughts don’t matter if they are not for it? As for this NPC being easily avoidable is not the issue. The fact that it is in the game is troubling. Not everyone is going to agree with it should be here and will only breed conflict, weather or not it is easily avoidable is irrelevant.

It depicts your character in a quick conversation with a person who has made a major life change. You ask why, they tell you, & you’re polite and kind in response. It’s an NPC whose ‘political’ message amounts to, ‘Be nice, and respect other people’s choices.’ I just don’t see that as ‘troubling.’

Most importantly – far more importantly – if a transgendered person hears about or comes across this NPC, it may be a ‘good feeling’ moment for them, a moment that says they’re included. That might mean a great deal to someone. That seems worth it, imo.

Xdmatt.3958:

Khristophoros.7194:

Fay.2735:

Well done Anet for encouraging tolerance. Keep up the great work!

I don’t see how this encourages tolerance. People aren’t going to change their opinion because of a transgender NPC in a video game. I say this because … well, you wouldn’t like my opinion on the matter. Anyway, now that I’m aware of this NPC I can assure you that it hasn’t influenced my opinion at all. It’s not a real person. It’s an NPC.

So I am not sure what the point of this is. I can see from this thread that it makes certain people happy but why? What is so great about this? Nobody is going to feel any differently on the issue due to the existence of this NPC.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

With utmost focus on constructiveness, here’s my opinion on this: yes, the NPC is inconsequential, avoidable and irrelevant. But he is also unnecessary and inflammatory; one could say unnecessarily inflammatory.

Now, we all know that gaming community is rife with SJWs, Gamergate being the most stark proof thereof. And while respectful of ANET’s decision, I’d like to note my disappointment in their desire to jump onto the social justice bandwagon du jour.

I think you’re confused about what a social justice warrior is if you think Gamersgate proves they are a vast majority in the gaming world. And why is SJW being used as an insult, these days? Like it’s somehow wrong to want social justice? Like we should just continue to marginalize people? How is it a positive thing to support marginalization and exclusion?

Guhracie.3419:

I think you’re confused about what a social justice warrior is if you think Gamersgate proves they are a vast majority in the gaming world. And why is SJW being used as an insult, these days? Like it’s somehow wrong to want social justice? Like we should just continue to marginalize people? How is it a positive thing to support marginalization and exclusion?

Au contraire, I know exactly what an SJW is; thanks to them, Gamergate became what it was rather than a minor and quickly forgotten scandal involving a sexually promiscuous wannabe “game developer” (but not really) and a few unethical journalists. I should also point out that had it remained a minor scandal, it would have probably done less damage to the same people it claimed to be “about”; so good jaerb to you and yours, I suppose.

Social justice is little more than Oppression Olympics these days, and your Instant Outrage (available in fine grocery stores next to instant coffee) illustrates just that.

I see. I did read the message more than once. To me it didn’t seem respectful really.
“If you feel negatively towards the presence of this NPC, this optional, easily-avoided, easily-ignored NPC, please avoid her in the game and please consider not posting in this thread unless you can do so with respectful and constructive comments.” The reiteration of the presence of the NPC being avoided brought to mind that we were being belittled for any thoughts that were not in favor of the NPC. From this I feel my opinion is completely unwanted. That it doesn’t matter. Because from there it will not be considered constructive.

Guhracie.3419:

Khristophoros.7194:

Fay.2735:

Well done Anet for encouraging tolerance. Keep up the great work!

I don’t see how this encourages tolerance. People aren’t going to change their opinion because of a transgender NPC in a video game. I say this because … well, you wouldn’t like my opinion on the matter. Anyway, now that I’m aware of this NPC I can assure you that it hasn’t influenced my opinion at all. It’s not a real person. It’s an NPC.

So I am not sure what the point of this is. I can see from this thread that it makes certain people happy but why? What is so great about this? Nobody is going to feel any differently on the issue due to the existence of this NPC.

For the same reason it’s important to have ethnically diverse casting in film or television. For the same reason it’s important to show representation to women. Small motions create the foundation of change.

I really disagree. Change is achieved by going out and representing yourself and the people you care about. That can be done by creating or contributing to a work of fiction, but not by placing a shallow token character where it is actually irrelevant.

Zoul.1087:

In a world with magic, it does seem political. As the character could have changed and no one would have known.

A Vegan Charr on the other hand would be scandalous however.

Don’t say that around the Charr cubs! It is a vegan agenda I tell you! AGENDA!

Khristophoros.7194:

Guhracie.3419:

Khristophoros.7194:

Fay.2735:

Well done Anet for encouraging tolerance. Keep up the great work!

I don’t see how this encourages tolerance. People aren’t going to change their opinion because of a transgender NPC in a video game. I say this because … well, you wouldn’t like my opinion on the matter. Anyway, now that I’m aware of this NPC I can assure you that it hasn’t influenced my opinion at all. It’s not a real person. It’s an NPC.

So I am not sure what the point of this is. I can see from this thread that it makes certain people happy but why? What is so great about this? Nobody is going to feel any differently on the issue due to the existence of this NPC.

For the same reason it’s important to have ethnically diverse casting in film or television. For the same reason it’s important to show representation to women. Small motions create the foundation of change.

I really disagree. Change is achieved by going out and representing yourself and the people you care about. That can be done by creating or contributing to a work of fiction, but not by placing a shallow token character where it is actually irrelevant.

Agree. All this leads to is stereotypes of certain races. There is nothing progressive about me continuously being compared to Aladdin or that one Arab/middle eastern guy in any film.

In all honesty though, I wish I was a prince.

stobie.2134:

SunFireDemon.5014:

I’m sorry for any issues. But if I read that right, if we don’t agree we can’t voice out thoughts on it, even if it was in polite, non offensive manner where no one person was called out. We should just shut up and keep to ourselves? our thoughts don’t matter if they are not for it? As for this NPC being easily avoidable is not the issue. The fact that it is in the game is troubling. Not everyone is going to agree with it should be here and will only breed conflict, weather or not it is easily avoidable is irrelevant.

It depicts your character in a quick conversation with a person who has made a major life change. You ask why, they tell you, & you’re polite and kind in response. It’s an NPC whose ‘political’ message amounts to, ‘Be nice, and respect other people’s choices.’ I just don’t see that as ‘troubling.’

Most importantly – far more importantly – if a transgendered person hears about or comes across this NPC, it may be a ‘good feeling’ moment for them, a moment that says they’re included. That might mean a great deal to someone. That seems worth it, imo.

Yes you get to interact with the npc, but the only convo choice you get is to accept and praise. What if you don’t agree? Do just walk away? What if you are a perfectionist and can’t walk away from something unless it is completed? There for you have the conversation, and force to to praise despit what you may think. The convo is just one sided. Even if they just added at “oh. I see.” response that will still let you finish the convo if that is your personality quirk. And yes. I do know people like this. If we are to aim for equality and fairness to all, it should extend to everyones thoughts including those that don’t agree with it. As humans we are all different, with different morals, beliefs, religions, and ways of life. Respect one means respect for all, weather you agree or not.

jesters.9406:

Kury.8210:

‘They’ is improper grammar. -sniffs the air-
Just saying.

Beats arguments made from indignant outrage.

Oxford would beg to differ: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/words/he-or-she-versus-they

Might I also suggest getting yourself some tissues, you seem to have developed a bit of a snuffly nose there.

Looks like Oxford and I can be friends. We both believe it’s an archaic practice centuries out of use. Only reason reason it’s cropping up again is an insidious combination of laziness and political correctness.

Thanks for the tissue suggestion. I’m afraid the problem may lie in the thread rather than my nose. Do you smell something burning?

We have sex changes but no Indians (not the ones you killed, the other ones outside US of Me).

Xdmatt.3958:

Khristophoros.7194:

Fay.2735:

Well done Anet for encouraging tolerance. Keep up the great work!

I don’t see how this encourages tolerance. People aren’t going to change their opinion because of a transgender NPC in a video game. I say this because … well, you wouldn’t like my opinion on the matter. Anyway, now that I’m aware of this NPC I can assure you that it hasn’t influenced my opinion at all. It’s not a real person. It’s an NPC.

So I am not sure what the point of this is. I can see from this thread that it makes certain people happy but why? What is so great about this? Nobody is going to feel any differently on the issue due to the existence of this NPC.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

With utmost focus on constructiveness, here’s my opinion on this: yes, the NPC is inconsequential, avoidable and irrelevant. But he is also unnecessary and inflammatory; one could say unnecessarily inflammatory.

Now, we all know that gaming community is rife with SJWs, Gamergate being the most stark proof thereof. And while respectful of ANET’s decision, I’d like to note my disappointment in their desire to jump onto the social justice bandwagon du jour.

You’re entitled to your opinion(s), I’m entitled to mine.

Bigotry-fueled opinions aren’t worth consideration.

I didn’t want to chime in again but since I had more time to think about this….

I’d rather not see this kind of pedastal be erected, nor a NEED for it to be put up. Why? Because at the end of the day the NPC is just another person that shouldn’t have this aspect of them be the end of all who they are. There’s that one episode of Saved by the Bell (god showing my age here) where one girl in a wheelchair is constantly given recognition and being called up in because she can handle her condition to the point where it eclipses that she has her own personality and life. That stuck in my head pretty well thinking about all of this.

Would Sya be feeling this way if she saw all the attention one of her personal choices was getting simply because she chose to bring it up? There are plenty of NPCs in the world, some may have these kind of choices in mind but simply not chosen to bring up to the player because it’s not what they want to make their point of interaction with everyone. Sya has a job to do you know!

Everyone has their choices, everyone is getting along, you all play with each other with all your differences and never has this topic been at the forefront of our enjoyment of the game nor has it even forced onto us. However now with this topic coming up at a very bad time following controversy outside the game, it’s risking hitting up further with this bad timing and it’s unfortunate, had this happened about 2 years ago, this probably wouldn’t exist, or at least instead be a topic of “So Mesmers can do more than let themselves go about without any ACTUAL clothing on?”

Let’s take…Kasmeer for example, that relationship she has going? A part of who she is, yes, it was made a little bit too to the front for a while. But I actually like her, why? Because she was the one who stood by us and teamed up with her good ol “Boss” against Scarlett in her final standoff when the others couldn’t. She was the “Maya” to my “Phoenix” at that noble party in DR when we were trying to find the source of lies impacting our mission. I’m aware of who she is, but at the end of the day, she’s a comrade, and quite the attractive one speaking as a guy.

Why should this whole thing even be an issue? Yes, they’ve had an NPC identify themselves to the player. Lets not make a big issue of it, for OR against. Because that’s how it should be. I’d rather not have this kind of topic brought up again, Tyria is already highly inclusive, look at yourselves, you play together! Like those kids in LA that play together despite their differing races! Charr and Human were killing each other in GW1, here their young are friends!

Now I’m out. I hope it came out ok, tis a bit late here. Let’s just get along.

Xdmatt.3958:

Guhracie.3419:

I think you’re confused about what a social justice warrior is if you think Gamersgate proves they are a vast majority in the gaming world. And why is SJW being used as an insult, these days? Like it’s somehow wrong to want social justice? Like we should just continue to marginalize people? How is it a positive thing to support marginalization and exclusion?

Au contraire, I know exactly what an SJW is; thanks to them, Gamergate became what it was rather than a minor and quickly forgotten scandal involving a sexually promiscuous wannabe “game developer” (but not really) and a few unethical journalists. I should also point out that had it remained a minor scandal, it would have probably done less damage to the same people it claimed to be “about”; so good jaerb to you and yours, I suppose.

Social justice is little more than Oppression Olympics these days, and your Instant Outrage (available in fine grocery stores next to instant coffee) illustrates just that.

LOL! “Gamer gate” became what it was? DO you know what it was? It was an embarrassment to gamers that anyone would use the name of gamers to act like that in the name of " gamers". When in fact " gamergate" wasn’t even started by gamers, and gamers want nothing to do with that garbage. The reality check is that " gamer gate" is globally known as a tiny group of loud people ( many who are admittedly not gamers) harassing people with their narrow minded bigoted POV . Self proclaimed " gamer gaters" have harrassed some of the people who work on this game..

The NPC’s in games should be as varied as the players in games. Players come in all shapes, colors, sizes, genders and sexes. It is good that our games are starting to reflect the vibrancy of the world we live in.

Einlanzer.1627:

Xdmatt.3958:

Khristophoros.7194:

Fay.2735:

Well done Anet for encouraging tolerance. Keep up the great work!

I don’t see how this encourages tolerance. People aren’t going to change their opinion because of a transgender NPC in a video game. I say this because … well, you wouldn’t like my opinion on the matter. Anyway, now that I’m aware of this NPC I can assure you that it hasn’t influenced my opinion at all. It’s not a real person. It’s an NPC.

So I am not sure what the point of this is. I can see from this thread that it makes certain people happy but why? What is so great about this? Nobody is going to feel any differently on the issue due to the existence of this NPC.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

With utmost focus on constructiveness, here’s my opinion on this: yes, the NPC is inconsequential, avoidable and irrelevant. But he is also unnecessary and inflammatory; one could say unnecessarily inflammatory.

Now, we all know that gaming community is rife with SJWs, Gamergate being the most stark proof thereof. And while respectful of ANET’s decision, I’d like to note my disappointment in their desire to jump onto the social justice bandwagon du jour.

You’re entitled to your opinion(s), I’m entitled to mine.

Bigotry-fueled opinions aren’t worth consideration.

My opinion is not from bigotry. I have a close family member who has been in transition for a few years and I don’t accept it. That is a much more real experience on the issue than most people have.

SunFireDemon.5014:

stobie.2134:

SunFireDemon.5014:

I’m sorry for any issues. But if I read that right, if we don’t agree we can’t voice out thoughts on it, even if it was in polite, non offensive manner where no one person was called out. We should just shut up and keep to ourselves? our thoughts don’t matter if they are not for it? As for this NPC being easily avoidable is not the issue. The fact that it is in the game is troubling. Not everyone is going to agree with it should be here and will only breed conflict, weather or not it is easily avoidable is irrelevant.

It depicts your character in a quick conversation with a person who has made a major life change. You ask why, they tell you, & you’re polite and kind in response. It’s an NPC whose ‘political’ message amounts to, ‘Be nice, and respect other people’s choices.’ I just don’t see that as ‘troubling.’

Most importantly – far more importantly – if a transgendered person hears about or comes across this NPC, it may be a ‘good feeling’ moment for them, a moment that says they’re included. That might mean a great deal to someone. That seems worth it, imo.

Yes you get to interact with the npc, but the only convo choice you get is to accept and praise. What if you don’t agree? Do just walk away? What if you are a perfectionist and can’t walk away from something unless it is completed? There for you have the conversation, and force to to praise despit what you may think. The convo is just one sided. Even if they just added at “oh. I see.” response that will still let you finish the convo if that is your personality quirk. And yes. I do know people like this. If we are to aim for equality and fairness to all, it should extend to everyones thoughts including those that don’t agree with it. As humans we are all different, with different morals, beliefs, religions, and ways of life. Respect one means respect for all, weather you agree or not.

That part, I agree with, in a way. It’s what drove me away from GW2 in the first place, the way my characters just faded into nothing, clicking green arrows to get on to the next part, while NPCs babbled (sometimes, in the most irritating ways.) But this is just one NPC, and not a developed story. You ask, they answer, and your character is nice about it. Since GW2 isn’t a ‘dark side/light side’ game, that’s nothing new. Your character is nice, & really, debating with a total stranger about their personal life choices can’t be considered ‘nice.’ It would always be ‘completely rude.’

But again, I don’t think this NPC is meant for people’s debate. I think it’s meant to welcome people who don’t necessarily feel very welcomed. I don’t think it’s meant to tell me what I should think about the issue. I think it’s a quiet little voice saying, “You’re welcome here, too,” to people who might really appreciate that. If you view it that way, rather than as an affront to whatever you personally believe (and beliefs change with time) then it might be easier to understand.

eta: Oh, God, if gamergate has entered this topic, it really has died! /runs away screaming

Npc’s babbled, agreed. I just started skipping the storyline things since it became an inconvenience when all I was watching was a verbal tennis match

At least tennis has winners

“The reiteration of the presence of the NPC being avoided brought to mind that we were being belittled for any thoughts that were not in favor of the NPC. From this I feel my opinion is completely unwanted. That it doesn’t matter. Because from there it will not be considered constructive.”

Yeah. Surprise. Your opinion, just like that of every other individual who thinks they should have creative control over the content someone else’s work or creative endeavor is belittled, ridiculed, and unwanted.

Amazingly Gaile’s post did none of those things. As for me, I’m just sad that you can’t take joy in other people really geeking out over this character – it wasn’t put in the game for you, or me for that matter, since for the most part I wouldn’t remember if the character had been Skritt, Norn, Hylek or Mordrem Thrasher pre-patch – I never notice this stuff. In fact, one of the most enjoyable things for me is watching other people geek out and have fun with this kind of stuff, I’m a jaded old fart and it doesn’t grab me the way it does others.

As for ‘agendas’ as it applies to other people’s personal choices and autonomy – for the most part this is simply a way to externalize ‘I don’t like this because I think it’s icky’. Get over yourself, I don’t want to think about you in your bedroom either.

Thank you Anet for including this character, as well as the other occasional LGBT friendly content – it’s not for me, but as long as it’s well written I’ll enjoy it.

Personally I totally geeked out at the two kids playing Belinda and Kasemeer instead of Logan/Rytlock (I don’t remember what characters from Destiny’s Edge the kids in the original Lion’s arch were acting as). I laughed out loud at that the first time, and it still makes me smile every time.

Khristophoros.7194:

My opinion is not from bigotry. I have a close family member who has been in transition for a few years and I don’t accept it. That is a much more real experience on the issue than most people have.

On the contrary, that means your bigotry is more deeply rooted and prejudicial than average. Most bigots are simply against a faceless hypothetical image, not a real person. But you’ve made the decision to turn against a real person who is part of your life, denying them the love and support they no doubt were hoping for and may desperately need. Your bigotry is on a whole other level than that of a mere idealogue.

Paul.4081:

We have sex changes but no Indians (not the ones you killed, the other ones outside US of Me).

There are varying degrees of skin colors, and India doesn’t exist in Tyria, so…

jesters.9406:

Chrono.6928:

jesters.9406:

Chrono.6928:

i don’t really get it… nothing against the lgbt community, have several friends who are, and legally i think they should have more rights, but why the need to put hot topic issues in a fantasy video game? In a game about unity and fighting dragons just seems like a good way to stirr up controversy and have more religion debates in trade chat and can see otherwise good people who just happen to have a religious belief getting banned just for having a discussion (even if in a polite/friendly manner)

why not put obama or hillary flyers up, or crosses or other religious symbols ingame too? Thought the whole point of a fantasy video game was to escape reality.

bunny trail but… why do voters even care about social issues atm when we are billions or trillions in debt atm in the usa. everything else seems kind of irrelevant in comparison to the giant problem that isn’t going away.

again (just to make it clear and i dont get banned for even posting this lol) i support the agenda, but I don’t get the need for it in a game. let the politicians and preachers fight in real life, ingame i just want to fight dragons and talk in trade chat without debates.

In my experience, anything that starts with “nothing against the lgbt community” is probably going to be against the lgbt community, just like anything that starts “nothing against black people” is probably going be racist.

I always hope to be pleasantly surprised, but I wasn’t this time, and I doubt I will be the next time either. :’)

if u actually read what i said… there isn’t anything against the community. Specifically said i have friends who are and also support their rights. I don’t like intolerance anymore than you do.

in reply to lord ahran: I didn’t say “being” gay was a political issue, i 100% agree with u that its a way of life and am completely cool with it. Just seems like the whole “debate” is a political issue and a hot button social issue at that judging by how passionate both sides get talking about it. To me might as well promote obamacare, or limited government, or christianity, or wiccans, or taxes, or other things that tend to upset people one way or another. I just don’t like people fighting over real life hot topics when I’m trying to have fun playing a game. That’s all i meant. If my friend comes out I will pat him on the back and say good for you bud But if 2 friends start fighting or arguing I will walk away since I don’t like confrontation.

ps: <3 Game of thrones. Difference between watching tv and a game with live interaction/chats where people tend to get vocal.

“I have LGBT friends” does not actually make you exempt from saying troubling things against the community, just as you did in your earlier comment.

If you think you aren’t saying something against the LGBT community, let me tell you that you might want to reconsider.

What Chronos has said in his posts was in no way a slur or an insult to the LGBT community, it’s just you trying to force your point of view on anyone who doesn’t play the same game and in doing so it only serves to exacerbate the issue… maybe that is what you actually prefer to happen.

See .. this is why ANET should of steered clear of this kind of attempt at inclusiveness.. small and of little consequence to the game per say.. but that small thing has already begun to ignite that very hot potato Chronos is referring to.
Many of us genuinely don’t have any issues with LGBT inclusion and their preferences, but we also know and understand that not everyone shares that same level of acceptance, tolerance, acknowledgement and understanding around the globe.. its cruddy yes but it’s a fact. MMO’s or games in general are not the place to fight these kind of stigmas and hot topics and for good reason…
If this is allowed to escalate within game then maybe ANET need to start placing warning on boxes, or across splash screens and raise the age bar.. because this isn’t something that young kids need to get embroiled in when playing .. a game.

So do yourself and others in the LGBT community a favour and take your aggressive intent out of the thread because your actually the one who is doing their utmost to turn it into the cat fight many of us are are saying we would prefer to avoid.

Guhracie.3419:

Paul.4081:

We have sex changes but no Indians (not the ones you killed, the other ones outside US of Me).

There are varying degrees of skin colors, and India doesn’t exist in Tyria, so…

But baseball caps do?

U S of ME

I can get a tan but does that make me look like another person, no.

WitM.2308:

“The reiteration of the presence of the NPC being avoided brought to mind that we were being belittled for any thoughts that were not in favor of the NPC. From this I feel my opinion is completely unwanted. That it doesn’t matter. Because from there it will not be considered constructive.”

Yeah. Surprise. Your opinion, just like that of every other individual who thinks they should have creative control over the content someone else’s work or creative endeavor is belittled, ridiculed, and unwanted.

.

Sorry I came off this way. It’s not what I meant. just how it was constantly reiterated didn’t seem polite to me. And that may just be me. I’m sorry if I sounded that way. AS an artist I will never take control of someone else work. Just make statements of what I feel as an individual.

I think the inclusion of a transgender character is fantastic. And it’s important to note that players are not being exposed to “real world” controversy in-game, since no one in Tryia makes an issue about it. I could understand people being uncomfortable if there was an entire storyline where NPC’s were picketing and protesting for transgender rights in Lion’s Arch, but this just isn’t the case.

I posted the following in a discussion on another site, but it applies here as well:

It just seems like people who complain about “real world” “angenda”-type stuff in their games are contradicting themselves.

On the one hand, they claim they don’t want to see unpleasant political stuff in their games, but then when you try to immerse them in a game world where transgender people (or gay or lesbian or whatever other appropriate minority) exist WITHOUT the nasty unpleasantness…

Well, they don’t want to see THAT either. Funny, that.

Maybe you need to take your aggressive homophobia out of the thread. We have as much right to post here as you.

And many of us genuinely don’t have any issues with ‘heterosexual’ inclusion and their preferences, but we also know and understand that not everyone shares that same level of acceptance, tolerance, acknowledgement and understanding around the globe..

Oh and god forbid young kids see a trans gendered person or a lesbian or gay character, because we all know these deviants will start on children next.

Sarcasm.

Thankfully many children are not as judgmental as you. Many children already grow up in gay/lesbian households. And before someone starts on the whole children need a man and a woman nonsense, what happens when a parent is widowed, or is left through no fault of their own raising a child? Does that make them a bad parent suddenly?

Diversity happens. Diversity is the world of Tyria. We have different species, how does this differ?

Don’t like her, don’t talk to her. And it really is that simple.

Gaile Gray.6029:

However… I believe we should be able to have a conversation about this without the moderator team being required to lock the thread. Don’t you agree? Especially when, as several forum members have pointed out, this is one NPC with a few lines of dialogue who it not part of the story or of an event. You may interact with her, or not, as you choose. Just as you may join this thread, or not. But if you do…

If you feel negatively towards the presence of this NPC, this optional, easily-avoided, easily-ignored NPC, please avoid her in the game and please consider not posting in this thread unless you can do so with respectful and constructive comments.

Thanks.

Absolutely agree Gaile.. the discussion was well intended.. shame other posters felt the need to speak apparent support of the subject but then try to make out others were insulting in some way that actually was not the case.. likely to ignite the spark they apparently don’t like to see ignited.

One thing though.. small and unobtrusive to ones ideologies as this NPC is.. and yes avoidable by choice.. but then the role play and chat sniping will soon follow, and In doing so that small thing begins to grow and that little spark soon turns into a flame war that could and should of been avoided with the boundaries of a game imo.

I too having nothing against anyone’s preferences, skin colours, favourite food or what color Quaggan they want for dinner today… I’d just prefer not to see the toxicity that can and likely will emerge.. not everyone thinks, acts and tolerates equally as sad a fact as that is, but sadly it is a fact of life.

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

Khristophoros.7194:

My opinion is not from bigotry. I have a close family member who has been in transition for a few years and I don’t accept it. That is a much more real experience on the issue than most people have.

On the contrary, that means your bigotry is more deeply rooted and prejudicial than average. Most bigots are simply against a faceless hypothetical image, not a real person. But you’ve made the decision to turn against a real person who is part of your life, denying them the love and support they no doubt were hoping for and may desperately need. Your bigotry is on a whole other level than that of a mere idealogue.

This is an extremely disrespectful thing for you to say. You have no idea what my experience is like.

I was actually very accepting of transgendered people until this happened. I’d like to see you just accept it if it happened to you.

Paul.4081:

We have sex changes but no Indians (not the ones you killed, the other ones outside US of Me).

When saying “you” are you referring to people of a certain country in Europe or a certain country in North America? Heck, plenty of Native Americans in Central America have been referred to as Indians as well. Looks like if you meant Europe you’ll have to specify a bit further. Sorry if you’ve already told us. I simply don’t recall a country that goes by “US of Me.”

dervix.9126:

There is a 40%+ suicide rate in transgendered teenagers.
Imagine being part of such a marginalized and hated group, and finding this NPC, effectively getting a message from the developers of one of your favorite games that it’s important to express yourself and that you’re brave for doing so. Can you even imagine how important that sentiment could be to some people?

This is why it’s so important.

Hopefully one day threads like this won’t exist, people will see a transgender npc in a game and just think “oh, there’s a person” and that’ll be it. That’s why characters like this, and Kasmeer and Marjory, Taimi and others are important. Why should video games only include perfectly typical heterosexual men and women? In the real world there are disabled people, gay people and trans people, what’s strange is not that a trans person has been added to the game but that this is an exception to the rule in video games.

So, well done anet, it’s one more stepping stone over the river of bigotry, prejudice and ignorance. I’m sure we’ll cross it one day.

This is great and all but can we finally get that Quaggan genocide we’ve all wanted since launch, please? Where’s Peter Fries when you need him? Take action friend!

Swizzle.7982:

dervix.9126:

There is a 40%+ suicide rate in transgendered teenagers.
Imagine being part of such a marginalized and hated group, and finding this NPC, effectively getting a message from the developers of one of your favorite games that it’s important to express yourself and that you’re brave for doing so. Can you even imagine how important that sentiment could be to some people?

This is why it’s so important.

Hopefully one day threads like this won’t exist, people will see a transgender npc in a game and just think “oh, there’s a person” and that’ll be it. That’s why characters like this, and Kasmeer and Marjory, Taimi and others are important. Why should video games only include perfectly typical heterosexual men and women? In the real world there are disabled people, gay people and trans people, what’s strange is not that a trans person has been added to the game but that this is an exception to the rule in video games.

So, well done anet, it’s one more stepping stone over the river of bigotry, prejudice and ignorance. I’m sure we’ll cross it one day.

Because if you want us to think “Oh, its just another person” Then there shouldn’t have been a point to point at that shes transgender to begin with.

anx.7549:

Maybe you need to take your aggressive homophobia out of the thread. We have as much right to post here as you.

And many of us genuinely don’t have any issues with ‘heterosexual’ inclusion and their preferences, but we also know and understand that not everyone shares that same level of acceptance, tolerance, acknowledgement and understanding around the globe..

Oh and god forbid young kids see a trans gendered person or a lesbian or gay character, because we all know these deviants will start on children next.

Sarcasm.

Thankfully many children are not as judgmental as you. Many children already grow up in gay/lesbian households. And before someone starts on the whole children need a man and a woman nonsense, what happens when a parent is widowed, or is left through no fault of their own raising a child? Does that make them a bad parent suddenly?

Diversity happens. Diversity is the world of Tyria. We have different species, how does this differ?

Don’t like her, don’t talk to her. And it really is that simple.

For your info .. I am left raising my 2 young children after my wife passed away a few years ago – my kids are now of the age to play this game and they are pretty unassuming in their own views also… so where is this apparent homophobia that you think I posses because I am not judging anyone or anything.. I simply prefer not to log into a game and be met with the kind of toxicity you yourself have instantly jumped into gear with.

Furthermore I have a member of my family that IS a member of the LGBT community and who also has a child albeit from a previous marriage.. so get of your high horse and engage your anger management switch before opening mouth.

Swizzle.7982:

Hopefully one day threads like this won’t exist, people will see a transgender npc in a game and just think “oh, there’s a person” and that’ll be it. That’s why characters like this, and Kasmeer and Marjory, Taimi and others are important.

But this is also why we shouldn’t make that aspect of them so prominant and not put these differences to the forefront of discussion.

They have that choice about their lives, let them get on with it, don’t hoist them up for everyone to judge. The only thing about this topic i can say is “The Road to hell is paved with good intentions” while people want to celebrate this NPC, it is only having the knock on effect of bringing these differences up and making them more visible when in reality, it shouldn’t be! It’s the opposite effect of what the end desire is!

That’s why I implied in my earlier post that there should be no need for this.

I’m not angry far from it, but before you go instructing members of the LGBT community to leave the thread because you don’t like what they are saying, maybe you need anger management classes.

Khristophoros.7194:

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

Khristophoros.7194:

My opinion is not from bigotry. I have a close family member who has been in transition for a few years and I don’t accept it. That is a much more real experience on the issue than most people have.

On the contrary, that means your bigotry is more deeply rooted and prejudicial than average. Most bigots are simply against a faceless hypothetical image, not a real person. But you’ve made the decision to turn against a real person who is part of your life, denying them the love and support they no doubt were hoping for and may desperately need. Your bigotry is on a whole other level than that of a mere idealogue.

This is an extremely disrespectful thing for you to say. You have no idea what my experience is like.

I was actually very accepting of transgendered people until this happened. I’d like to see you just accept it if it happened to you.

About a year ago my girl friend decided she liked girls. We had been together for more than a year. My response was probably different than the vast majority of people in the same situation. I valued all the time I had spent with her and the experiences we shared. Yes, I was hurt, but I didn’t press the issue. She had enough troubles with friends suddenly rejecting her and I didn’t want to add to that list. We parted as friends and gradually stopped seeing each other.

But this is important, I was hurt. I had a lot of emotions going through my mind, one of them being anger that a lot of the characteristics I found highly attractive in my girl friend were the same that the whole LGBT community sees as traits of their own. If society keeps telling a person he seems gay, he may very well give it a try. I know a big debate is over whether it’s a choice or not, and maybe for some there isn’t a choice. But for some it is and opinions can be swayed.

So, end point is I’ve had a similar experience, and though I reacted differently, I see all to well where Khristophorus could be coming from.