Guild Wars 2

Mystic.5934:

I purposely don’t join any speed run because of stories like this. I know everything that would be required of a speed run mesmer, and I do do those in pug cof runs. But if I ever see someone in my party gear checking or booting for being a noob, I’m leaving that party.

I do wonder what the difference in time is between how much they can shave off with a 100% efficient mesmer vs. time to find said mesmer. I’d love to hear that they then spent half an hour interviewing mesmers to find one would make their runs 1 minute shorter… then only do 10 runs with them!

From what i gather, the time shaved off per run with this “maximum efficiency” is a few seconds to sseveral minutes. However these are people farming for gold usually and will do runs many times, so collectively the small amount adds up significantly in the end. I don’t really like it but this is my understanding of it. So it’s tough when people who want fun, to learn and explore stuff, gets mixed up with ppl like this because what they’re doing is more like a serious job than playing a game.

I do like that groups like this usually make it obvious what they expect before you even join the group. look for words like “gear check”, “exp”, “speed”. the longer the post, the more you should stay away.
I would like to add that not all pugs are like this. 99% of the pugs I join are random normal people. they might give up and quit if the party keeps wiping, but they aren’t going to kick you for dying once or not doing what they want you to do. Don’t stay away from pugs just because you hear stories like these. Just be more selective with which pugs you join

OliverT.9021:

An effectively efficient run on p1 typically logs me around 6 mins. The speed run of 15 mins is more than double my timing. This may seem very little but when used in the context of farming for a legendary or some exotic weapon (which requires some crazy 350 charged lodestones or 500 powerful blood) where 400 hours needed are concerned, doubling that would mean 800 hours.

It’s not worth hurting another player’s feelings/disregarding his/her playstyle/build/gear choices over an artificial “need” to get a Legendary ASAP. I surely don’t consider “mastering CoF path one” as any sort of indicator of being good at GW2-it’s just players copying a system, practicing it enough so it becomes second nature. Whenever someone has a Legendary (or two, or three), I NEVER take for granted that the player is good, nor am I really necessarily awed. In fact, I know players who are better at CoF path one than at anything else in the game, sadly. Thus, there’s no need to kick others, etc. as if one was really a superior player for farming path one as fast as possible-it just shows one’s bad character, or willingness to be pulled with the crowd that think that it’s an OK thing to do. Note that I don’t mind people farming CoF 1; I don’t think that it’s wrong per se, but abusing other players because they didn’t meet truly non-required standards of “efficiency” for any given Dungeon path is something I won’t tolerate.

I have a nice friend ask me to get full Berserker’s for my Warrior so that I can join him with his friends on CoF runs. Of course I was upset, as I should have. I am experienced and do things for a reason-that friend is relatively new to the game. He said that he didn’t mean to offend, just that he feared his friends kicking me over having the “wrong” gear-to which I said, that is precisely why I don’t want to have anything to do with his friends and/or guildies and their “leet” runs. I will use Berserker’s gear maybe one day for fun, out of my own volition, not just to get into CoF pseudo-elite farming groups, for its own sake. I do CoF my way, and let everyone else choose the build/gear they think it’s most appropriate for themselves and the party, and with what they may be more used to (believe me, Berserker’s gear shouldn’t be forced on others simply because it doesn’t fit every player’s out there-wearing Berserker’s just because “you are supposed to” has brought endless character deaths to many.)

Disclaimer: I am not one of those who bash full Berserker’s sets-I am more annoyed at anyone who claims that GW2 MUST be played like that just because that’s t the way they prefer to play (“efficiency” being the biggest excuse for it-do not apologize for your gear choices, Berserker’s IS OK, but so can be everything else). Let people feel free to play how they want, is all I am standing for. I may use a full set one day, but I certainly won’t force others into that playstyle (and will surely be an alternate gear set, should I ever go down that route.)

In short, it’s OK to want Legendaries ASAP (though I personally don’t care about that), but your restless desire to do so shouldn’t make you treat others like BS, nor make you feel superior just because you have “mastered” one very small aspect of this huge game-I personally hope they nerf this farming method to better balance that dungeon’s difficulty with the other dungeon path options.

ZenonSeth.5739:

darkace.8925:

Diy.5296:

Anyways, CoF p1 really needs to buffed to make it harder.

I agree, but these forums are going to insufferable for a few days after the increase in difficult is implemented (if it ever is).

What are you trying to accomplish? Eliminate runners? The only way to do that is to put up hard walls that don’t go down until some enemies have been defeated.
Besides that, no matter how hard you make a dungeon, there’s always going to be people running through skipping as many fights as they can, and optimizing fights.

Besides, the moment you make a fight harder, it hurts not just those who have gotten really good at a it, but everyone else too, even those other people were having a hard time before.

I understand your point, but if the other dungeon paths are somewhat harder to farm, then this one should be more or less on the same scale. In short, all Dungeon paths should be somewhat appealing in some way-CoF path 1 shouldn’t be the preferred way to make money in-game just because it’s being exploited as the easiest. Yes, I wouldn’t like non-speed runners to be hit as well, but surely they can come up with alternate solutions so that CoF path 1 is not seen as that one option to make money (I know it necessarily isn’t, but to many players, it is.)

Alternatively, make other Dungeon paths easier, but I don’t think making Dungeons a cakewalk experience would be the way to go.

4 people do not identify a community.

This is why at the website, i ignore the posts that say ‘ping gear’. It already sends bad signals.

Star Ace.5207:

OliverT.9021:

An effectively efficient run on p1 typically logs me around 6 mins. The speed run of 15 mins is more than double my timing. This may seem very little but when used in the context of farming for a legendary or some exotic weapon (which requires some crazy 350 charged lodestones or 500 powerful blood) where 400 hours needed are concerned, doubling that would mean 800 hours.

It’s not worth hurting another player’s feelings/disregarding his/her playstyle/build/gear choices over an artificial “need” to get a Legendary ASAP.

Ah, the infamous “my feelings are more important than your everything” argument. While I don’t necessarily support the specific behavior in the OP, that doesn’t justify your statement. My time has value. If your playstyle/build/gear choices waste my time, I’m going to try recoup what I can and move on. If the most efficient way for me to do that is by kicking you from my group and replacing you, that’s exactly what I’m going to do. If my fractals group needs a pug, we will generally force them to prove they have 20 AR before doing a fractal 26 run. Why? Because we’ve had plenty of people lie about having AR in the past, and a poor or undergeared player will cost the entire group a significant amount of time.

We’re (generally) not going to harp on people and tell them they’re terrible and try to hurt their feelings. We will kick them if that’s going to be in the best interest for the group. If getting kicked from a group for not being good enough hurts their feelings that badly, that’s a personal problem which really has nothing to do with me.

/ I want to note that I’m not talking about kicking people because they were “slow with Time Warp.” In general, we’ll suffer through a poor group and just avoid those people again in the future unless it’s egregious. We’ve kicked numerous people for clearly not having the minimum AR required for a run or for directly going against instructions repeatedly. The point is, our time has value too. If you’re wasting it, you’re hurting us far more than we’re hurting you by kicking you.

Serophous.9085:

4 people do not identify a community.

This is why at the website, i ignore the posts that say ‘ping gear’. It already sends bad signals.

Doesn’t mean you can keep a blind eye on it, this is very normal.

Syeria.4812:

Star Ace.5207:

OliverT.9021:

An effectively efficient run on p1 typically logs me around 6 mins. The speed run of 15 mins is more than double my timing. This may seem very little but when used in the context of farming for a legendary or some exotic weapon (which requires some crazy 350 charged lodestones or 500 powerful blood) where 400 hours needed are concerned, doubling that would mean 800 hours.

It’s not worth hurting another player’s feelings/disregarding his/her playstyle/build/gear choices over an artificial “need” to get a Legendary ASAP.

Ah, the infamous “my feelings are more important than your everything” argument. While I don’t necessarily support the specific behavior in the OP, that doesn’t justify your statement. My time has value. If your playstyle/build/gear choices waste my time, I’m going to try recoup what I can and move on. If the most efficient way for me to do that is by kicking you from my group and replacing you, that’s exactly what I’m going to do. If my fractals group needs a pug, we will generally force them to prove they have 20 AR before doing a fractal 26 run. Why? Because we’ve had plenty of people lie about having AR in the past, and a poor or undergeared player will cost the entire group a significant amount of time.

We’re (generally) not going to harp on people and tell them they’re terrible and try to hurt their feelings. We will kick them if that’s going to be in the best interest for the group. If getting kicked from a group for not being good enough hurts their feelings that badly, that’s a personal problem which really has nothing to do with me.

/ I want to note that I’m not talking about kicking people because they were “slow with Time Warp.” In general, we’ll suffer through a poor group and just avoid those people again in the future unless it’s egregious. We’ve kicked numerous people for clearly not having the minimum AR required for a run or for directly going against instructions repeatedly. The point is, our time has value too. If you’re wasting it, you’re hurting us far more than we’re hurting you by kicking you.

You should be aware that people have different personality types, and therefore, while you didn’t mean to hurt their feelings by just wanting to be “efficient”, by actually hurting/offending another human being, even if you wouldn’t be yourself. In your view, It’s his/her problem, but he/she didn’t choose which type of personality he/she would have. So in short, not caring about others feelings because that’s not your forte (feelings) doesn’t mean that the other person is in the wrong for feeling mistreated, because that’s probably part of his/her personality and who he/she is. That player “hurting” you because of “wasting your time”, especially when unwillingly, is not on the same of level of you mistreating him/her unfairly because you have specific elitist criteria to be met that he/she may not possess (at least in your eyes, for who knows, that player may be really even better than you at GW2.)

If the person was bullying your party, by intentionally slowing your group down, then I understand about kicking someone. That’s him/her being annoying. But because of gear/build/playstyle/mistakes/still learning the instance/“wrong profession”, it’s totally unwarranted. Your time is valuable-but so are their feelings (I.E. you should learn to coexist.)

if elitism is possible, it will exist and spread like the plague!

Star Ace.5207:

You should be aware that people have different personality types, and therefore, while you didn’t mean to hurt their feelings by just wanting to be “efficient”, by actually hurting/offending another human being, even if you wouldn’t be yourself. In your view, It’s his/her problem, but he/she didn’t choose which type of personality he/she would have. So in short, not caring about others feelings because that’s not your forte (feelings) doesn’t mean that the other person is in the wrong for feeling mistreated, because that’s probably part of his/her personality and who he/she is. That player “hurting” you because of “wasting your time”, especially when unwillingly, is not on the same of level of you mistreating him/her unfairly because you have specific elitist criteria to be met that he/she may not possess (at least in your eyes, for who knows, that player may be really even better than you at GW2.)

If the person was bullying your party, by intentionally slowing your group down, then I understand about kicking someone. That’s him/her being annoying. But because of gear/build/playstyle/mistakes/still learning the instance/“wrong profession”, it’s totally unwarranted. Your time is valuable-but so are their feelings (I.E. you should learn to coexist.)

And I didn’t choose their personality either. Put simply, it is not my problem. It has never been my problem. It will never be my problem.

You (personally) clearly have a complete and utter lack of respect for other people, their lives, and their time. Just because someone whom I’ve never met and will never meet has a personal problem which is wholly and completely unrelated to me in any fashion does not mean that they automatically have some sort of right to my time, my effort, or anything from me. Maybe they have a serious psychological issue. Then they should discuss with their psychiatrist whether or not they should be playing Guild Wars 2. Their behavior is harming people around them, and they need to take responsibility for their actions.

Syeria.4812:

Star Ace.5207:

You should be aware that people have different personality types, and therefore, while you didn’t mean to hurt their feelings by just wanting to be “efficient”, by actually hurting/offending another human being, even if you wouldn’t be yourself. In your view, It’s his/her problem, but he/she didn’t choose which type of personality he/she would have. So in short, not caring about others feelings because that’s not your forte (feelings) doesn’t mean that the other person is in the wrong for feeling mistreated, because that’s probably part of his/her personality and who he/she is. That player “hurting” you because of “wasting your time”, especially when unwillingly, is not on the same of level of you mistreating him/her unfairly because you have specific elitist criteria to be met that he/she may not possess (at least in your eyes, for who knows, that player may be really even better than you at GW2.)

If the person was bullying your party, by intentionally slowing your group down, then I understand about kicking someone. That’s him/her being annoying. But because of gear/build/playstyle/mistakes/still learning the instance/“wrong profession”, it’s totally unwarranted. Your time is valuable-but so are their feelings (I.E. you should learn to coexist.)

And I didn’t choose their personality either. Put simply, it is not my problem. It has never been my problem. It will never be my problem.

You (personally) clearly have a complete and utter lack of respect for other people, their lives, and their time. Just because someone whom I’ve never met and will never meet has a personal problem which is wholly and completely unrelated to me in any fashion does not mean that they automatically have some sort of right to my time, my effort, or anything from me. Maybe they have a serious psychological issue. Then they should discuss with their psychiatrist whether or not they should be playing Guild Wars 2. Their behavior is harming people around them, and they need to take responsibility for their actions.

Not being like you is not a psychological disorder. This is why I said that you need to study more about how different people can be, and that it’s OK for them to be so.

In short, being you is OK, but should let others be themselves. In your eyes, people should behave and act as you think they should: as you would, and not as they were meant to-like themselves.

A player is right to feel mistreated if treated callously and disrespectfully, especially unfairly, which is almost always the case for that to be true.

The only real way to combat elitism is to not be elitist yourself. You combat it by providing the “other” alternative in the game world. It’s why I go out of my way to rez players, and often ask if someone needs a rez in chat before I do, since if they’re AFK they might well die again and break some armor.

I help out during guild missions and call out the guild bounty targets in map whenever I see them…even while our guild is doing our own mission. Might it cause us complications later? Maybe. I don’t care. I try to be community-minded.

The only way to combat selfishness is to be giving. Some people will never change, but there are a whole lot of people in the middle who can use another example of how an MMO community should be.

@ Syeria: if this is how you routinely treat people the same can be said of you. You are ‘wasting’ their time just as much as they ‘waste’ yours.
Quote:
“You (personally) clearly have a complete and utter lack of respect for other people, their lives, and their time. Just because someone whom I’ve never met and will never meet has a personal problem which is wholly and completely unrelated to me in any fashion does not mean that they automatically have some sort of right to my time, my effort, or anything from me. Maybe they have a serious psychological issue. Then they should discuss with their psychiatrist whether or not they should be playing Guild Wars 2. Their behavior is harming people around them, and they need to take responsibility for their actions.”

Thankfully the leet people tend to lock themselves away in leet guilds, leaving normal folks free to have fun

Barbelo.5916:

Just sharing an experience I had. I have 3 level 80 toons, 2 of them are at FOTM scale 39+. I’ve also earned the Dungeon Master title and do daily random dungeon runs mostly with my guild but sometimes with a pug party. I’d like to think I’m not an elitist MOST of the time and in all my daily runs I’ve only ever initiated a kick once and it was not due to gear issues or “noob” behavior but simply because the player went afk at a crucial time (at the arm seals in a 30+ fractal) without any logical explanation.

So today I went with my fairly new but fully zerk-geared mesmer to my first COF p1 speed run with a pug group. I’ve done COF p1 countless times before, most of them with my guildmates. And yesterday I joined a “casual” speed farming pug group with my mesmer (had 1 ele and later 1 guard, not full zerk) that did well (did 1 run in an average of 15min). But the group I joined today was one of those elitist groups that wanted 4 zerk warriors and 1 zerk mesmer and demanded that we ping our gears. We finished 1 run in about 10min. I THOUGHT I did everything right including blink-porting them through the boulders (on my first try). Then after the run I got kicked. I asked two of them why. Only one of them was kind enough to reply and tell me what I should have done. He said I “didn’t pull the slave driver into the wall and didn’t time-warp fast enough”. Also I cast feedback late at the turrets (apparently they didn’t notice I cast Phantasmal warden before casting feedback). Other than that I did everything right, he said.

I am astonished at the level of elitism in the GW2 community now. And especially because from what I was told I only made minor errors that I could have easily changed. I’ve tolerated much worse mistakes from other players without raging or kicking. Wouldn’t it have been easier to tell me what I did wrong than risk getting a less experienced mesmer on the next run? Or is it really just easier to initiate a kick?

I run P1 with a warrior and a mesmer. The hardest job in a speed run falls on a good mesmer. Without one the run takes 10 min like you said. That is just terrible.

generalraccoon.3857:

From what i gather, the time shaved off per run with this “maximum efficiency” is a few seconds to sseveral minutes. However these are people farming for gold usually and will do runs many times, so collectively the small amount adds up significantly in the end. I don’t really like it but this is my understanding of it. So it’s tough when people who want fun, to learn and explore stuff, gets mixed up with ppl like this because what they’re doing is more like a serious job than playing a game.

I must admit that I am one of those Zerk Warrior’s that look for zerk warriors or thiefs with a mesmer that are elitests in CoF, while I do look for experienced players, I wouldn’t ever kick someone for being a bit slow.. I think thats crazy. As I am farming up for my legendary, I farm CoF for hours so being in a group that takes 15 minutes to clear a dungeon that usually takes 6 – 10 minutes its not something I am interested in right now. That being said I do participate in guild runs with any class for fun.

I don’t think anyone should be offended if they get kicked from an elitest group, it’s not about you or what the player is capable of, its about the toon and the stats. Also, if you don’t read the post before you join, then you shouldn’t be offended if the group kicks you.

Star Ace.5207:

Syeria.4812:

Star Ace.5207:

You should be aware that people have different personality types, and therefore, while you didn’t mean to hurt their feelings by just wanting to be “efficient”, by actually hurting/offending another human being, even if you wouldn’t be yourself. In your view, It’s his/her problem, but he/she didn’t choose which type of personality he/she would have. So in short, not caring about others feelings because that’s not your forte (feelings) doesn’t mean that the other person is in the wrong for feeling mistreated, because that’s probably part of his/her personality and who he/she is. That player “hurting” you because of “wasting your time”, especially when unwillingly, is not on the same of level of you mistreating him/her unfairly because you have specific elitist criteria to be met that he/she may not possess (at least in your eyes, for who knows, that player may be really even better than you at GW2.)

If the person was bullying your party, by intentionally slowing your group down, then I understand about kicking someone. That’s him/her being annoying. But because of gear/build/playstyle/mistakes/still learning the instance/“wrong profession”, it’s totally unwarranted. Your time is valuable-but so are their feelings (I.E. you should learn to coexist.)

And I didn’t choose their personality either. Put simply, it is not my problem. It has never been my problem. It will never be my problem.

You (personally) clearly have a complete and utter lack of respect for other people, their lives, and their time. Just because someone whom I’ve never met and will never meet has a personal problem which is wholly and completely unrelated to me in any fashion does not mean that they automatically have some sort of right to my time, my effort, or anything from me. Maybe they have a serious psychological issue. Then they should discuss with their psychiatrist whether or not they should be playing Guild Wars 2. Their behavior is harming people around them, and they need to take responsibility for their actions.

Not being like you is not a psychological disorder. This is why I said that you need to study more about how different people can be, and that it’s OK for them to be so.

In short, being you is OK, but should let others be themselves. In your eyes, people should behave and act as you think they should: as you would, and not as they were meant to-like themselves.

A player is right to feel mistreated if treated callously and disrespectfully, especially unfairly, which is almost always the case for that to be true.

Yawn. That’s a lovely strawman you came up with there. Did you have fun with it?

Seems you need the situation explained to you better:

Your position – Extremely sensitive peoples’ feelings are the single most important thing in the entire world, and anything that may or may not incidentally harm them (held to the standard of the most sensitive person in the entire game, rather than to a “normal,” average, median, or even nth percentile measure) is far more important than any possible motivation behind the action.

Rational position – There’s no responsibility for every single individual in the world to break their back in order to ensure extremely insecure people don’t perceive horrible offenses being committed against them around every corner.

The fact of the matter is the enjoyment of the game by 4 people in a party is more valuable than the enjoyment by the 1 remaining person in the party. Groups in Guild Wars 2 are extremely informal arrangements where people try work together for a common goal. If things aren’t working out, they’re not working out and the informal arrangement should be broken. If you’re driving somewhere with someone and they suggest you take a shortcut, but it becomes immediately apparent that taking that shortcut is going to damage your vehicle, you should turn around and go the other way. Even though not taking the shortcut might hurt that person’s feelings, no rational person is going to seriously risk their life and property just to ensure that person’s feelings are protected, and that’s when dealing with someone they presumably actually know and care about for other reasons.

I know it’s hip and cool to be “empathetic” and “concerned” but to people actually capable of coherent thought, it’s pretty clear those people are just pretentious kittens who think far too highly of themselves.

After reading the additional replies to this topic I feel it comes down to the following:

The dungeon fights in GW2 is some of the easiest I’ve ever come across in any MMO. You can literally be ‘pro’ at a specific path within the first few runs. It’s that easy.

Speed runs are not fun. If you are looking for fun, join a casual run or run it with guildies. People doing speedruns do it for one thing only: gold gained per hour. Do not expect a chatty environment. Do not expect friendliness or courtesy. Expect to do your part.

So having said that, if you are looking at speed running you probably have some reason for doing so. Legendary weapon skin or whatever, it doesn’t matter. Most others doing this will have similar reasons. Gold.

Make sure you know what your role will be before entry and be prepared to continually learn how to be even more efficient. There are lots of videos on youtube and you can get traited and geared correctly beforehand. Heck, you can even start practicing some of the encounters on mobs in open world. If your intention is speed running you should have at least a basic understanding of what to do before you’ve even set foot in whatever dungeon.

Try to join groups willing to teach you the run. Lots of groups will be willing to help out because chances are, you’ll be added to the friends list for future runs (especially mesmers for CoF).

If you can’t find a group willing to let you learn, go ahead and join as ‘experienced’ but grow a pair and do not cry for mommy if your feelings get hurt when you get called out or kicked for making mistakes. Rather learn from those mistakes and get better or accept that this is not your scene and move on. It is not fair to expect the other players in your group to carry you or explain things to you like you are 5, unless agreed upon beforehand.

If you are not prepared for any of the above then just don’t join speedrun groups. No need for name calling on the forums, discussion about who’s, right, who’s wrong or who’s time is more important. The ability to do speedruns is in the game and not considered an exploit – therefore working as intended until anet changes it.

Simple, really…

Syeria.4812:

Star Ace.5207:

Syeria.4812:

Star Ace.5207:

You should be aware that people have different personality types, and therefore, while you didn’t mean to hurt their feelings by just wanting to be “efficient”, by actually hurting/offending another human being, even if you wouldn’t be yourself. In your view, It’s his/her problem, but he/she didn’t choose which type of personality he/she would have. So in short, not caring about others feelings because that’s not your forte (feelings) doesn’t mean that the other person is in the wrong for feeling mistreated, because that’s probably part of his/her personality and who he/she is. That player “hurting” you because of “wasting your time”, especially when unwillingly, is not on the same of level of you mistreating him/her unfairly because you have specific elitist criteria to be met that he/she may not possess (at least in your eyes, for who knows, that player may be really even better than you at GW2.)

If the person was bullying your party, by intentionally slowing your group down, then I understand about kicking someone. That’s him/her being annoying. But because of gear/build/playstyle/mistakes/still learning the instance/“wrong profession”, it’s totally unwarranted. Your time is valuable-but so are their feelings (I.E. you should learn to coexist.)

And I didn’t choose their personality either. Put simply, it is not my problem. It has never been my problem. It will never be my problem.

You (personally) clearly have a complete and utter lack of respect for other people, their lives, and their time. Just because someone whom I’ve never met and will never meet has a personal problem which is wholly and completely unrelated to me in any fashion does not mean that they automatically have some sort of right to my time, my effort, or anything from me. Maybe they have a serious psychological issue. Then they should discuss with their psychiatrist whether or not they should be playing Guild Wars 2. Their behavior is harming people around them, and they need to take responsibility for their actions.

Not being like you is not a psychological disorder. This is why I said that you need to study more about how different people can be, and that it’s OK for them to be so.

In short, being you is OK, but should let others be themselves. In your eyes, people should behave and act as you think they should: as you would, and not as they were meant to-like themselves.

A player is right to feel mistreated if treated callously and disrespectfully, especially unfairly, which is almost always the case for that to be true.

Yawn. That’s a lovely strawman you came up with there. Did you have fun with it?

Seems you need the situation explained to you better:

Your position – Extremely sensitive peoples’ feelings are the single most important thing in the entire world, and anything that may or may not incidentally harm them (held to the standard of the most sensitive person in the entire game, rather than to a “normal,” average, median, or even nth percentile measure) is far more important than any possible motivation behind the action.

Rational position – There’s no responsibility for every single individual in the world to break their back in order to ensure extremely insecure people don’t perceive horrible offenses being committed against them around every corner.

The fact of the matter is the enjoyment of the game by 4 people in a party is more valuable than the enjoyment by the 1 remaining person in the party. Groups in Guild Wars 2 are extremely informal arrangements where people try work together for a common goal. If things aren’t working out, they’re not working out and the informal arrangement should be broken. If you’re driving somewhere with someone and they suggest you take a shortcut, but it becomes immediately apparent that taking that shortcut is going to damage your vehicle, you should turn around and go the other way. Even though not taking the shortcut might hurt that person’s feelings, no rational person is going to seriously risk their life and property just to ensure that person’s feelings are protected, and that’s when dealing with someone they presumably actually know and care about for other reasons.

I know it’s hip and cool to be “empathetic” and “concerned” but to people actually capable of coherent thought, it’s pretty clear those people are just pretentious kittens who think far too highly of themselves.

“Pretentious kittens who think far too highly of themselves”
.
.
.
“Yawn. That’s a lovely strawman you came up with there. Did you have fun with it?”

Mindblow O.o

Poplolita.2638:

Syeria.4812:

Star Ace.5207:

Syeria.4812:

Star Ace.5207:

You should be aware that people have different personality types, and therefore, while you didn’t mean to hurt their feelings by just wanting to be “efficient”, by actually hurting/offending another human being, even if you wouldn’t be yourself. In your view, It’s his/her problem, but he/she didn’t choose which type of personality he/she would have. So in short, not caring about others feelings because that’s not your forte (feelings) doesn’t mean that the other person is in the wrong for feeling mistreated, because that’s probably part of his/her personality and who he/she is. That player “hurting” you because of “wasting your time”, especially when unwillingly, is not on the same of level of you mistreating him/her unfairly because you have specific elitist criteria to be met that he/she may not possess (at least in your eyes, for who knows, that player may be really even better than you at GW2.)

If the person was bullying your party, by intentionally slowing your group down, then I understand about kicking someone. That’s him/her being annoying. But because of gear/build/playstyle/mistakes/still learning the instance/“wrong profession”, it’s totally unwarranted. Your time is valuable-but so are their feelings (I.E. you should learn to coexist.)

And I didn’t choose their personality either. Put simply, it is not my problem. It has never been my problem. It will never be my problem.

You (personally) clearly have a complete and utter lack of respect for other people, their lives, and their time. Just because someone whom I’ve never met and will never meet has a personal problem which is wholly and completely unrelated to me in any fashion does not mean that they automatically have some sort of right to my time, my effort, or anything from me. Maybe they have a serious psychological issue. Then they should discuss with their psychiatrist whether or not they should be playing Guild Wars 2. Their behavior is harming people around them, and they need to take responsibility for their actions.

Not being like you is not a psychological disorder. This is why I said that you need to study more about how different people can be, and that it’s OK for them to be so.

In short, being you is OK, but should let others be themselves. In your eyes, people should behave and act as you think they should: as you would, and not as they were meant to-like themselves.

A player is right to feel mistreated if treated callously and disrespectfully, especially unfairly, which is almost always the case for that to be true.

Yawn. That’s a lovely strawman you came up with there. Did you have fun with it?

Seems you need the situation explained to you better:

Your position – Extremely sensitive peoples’ feelings are the single most important thing in the entire world, and anything that may or may not incidentally harm them (held to the standard of the most sensitive person in the entire game, rather than to a “normal,” average, median, or even nth percentile measure) is far more important than any possible motivation behind the action.

Rational position – There’s no responsibility for every single individual in the world to break their back in order to ensure extremely insecure people don’t perceive horrible offenses being committed against them around every corner.

The fact of the matter is the enjoyment of the game by 4 people in a party is more valuable than the enjoyment by the 1 remaining person in the party. Groups in Guild Wars 2 are extremely informal arrangements where people try work together for a common goal. If things aren’t working out, they’re not working out and the informal arrangement should be broken. If you’re driving somewhere with someone and they suggest you take a shortcut, but it becomes immediately apparent that taking that shortcut is going to damage your vehicle, you should turn around and go the other way. Even though not taking the shortcut might hurt that person’s feelings, no rational person is going to seriously risk their life and property just to ensure that person’s feelings are protected, and that’s when dealing with someone they presumably actually know and care about for other reasons.

I know it’s hip and cool to be “empathetic” and “concerned” but to people actually capable of coherent thought, it’s pretty clear those people are just pretentious kittens who think far too highly of themselves.

“Pretentious kittens who think far too highly of themselves”
.
.
.
“Yawn. That’s a lovely strawman you came up with there. Did you have fun with it?”

Mindblow O.o

Lol. Nailed it.

This is why Cof p1 needs a fix..

The game has been designed to allow this behavior, just look at the way these dungeons are set up and supposedly allowed to be ran, honestly a lot of the game has lost the plot badly..

Barbelo.5916:

Just sharing an experience I had. I have 3 level 80 toons, 2 of them are at FOTM scale 39+. I’ve also earned the Dungeon Master title and do daily random dungeon runs mostly with my guild but sometimes with a pug party. I’d like to think I’m not an elitist MOST of the time and in all my daily runs I’ve only ever initiated a kick once and it was not due to gear issues or “noob” behavior but simply because the player went afk at a crucial time (at the arm seals in a 30+ fractal) without any logical explanation.

So today I went with my fairly new but fully zerk-geared mesmer to my first COF p1 speed run with a pug group. I’ve done COF p1 countless times before, most of them with my guildmates. And yesterday I joined a “casual” speed farming pug group with my mesmer (had 1 ele and later 1 guard, not full zerk) that did well (did 1 run in an average of 15min). But the group I joined today was one of those elitist groups that wanted 4 zerk warriors and 1 zerk mesmer and demanded that we ping our gears. We finished 1 run in about 10min. I THOUGHT I did everything right including blink-porting them through the boulders (on my first try). Then after the run I got kicked. I asked two of them why. Only one of them was kind enough to reply and tell me what I should have done. He said I “didn’t pull the slave driver into the wall and didn’t time-warp fast enough”. Also I cast feedback late at the turrets (apparently they didn’t notice I cast Phantasmal warden before casting feedback). Other than that I did everything right, he said.

I am astonished at the level of elitism in the GW2 community now. And especially because from what I was told I only made minor errors that I could have easily changed. I’ve tolerated much worse mistakes from other players without raging or kicking. Wouldn’t it have been easier to tell me what I did wrong than risk getting a less experienced mesmer on the next run? Or is it really just easier to initiate a kick?

You’re better off staying far away from toxic runs, especially groups that ask for gear pinging, 4 war/1 mes groups. It isn’t that it’s elitist, moreso just think of yourself as having more skill because you bring more to a group than just all DPS and no survivability.

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

The ability to do speedruns is in the game and not considered an exploit – therefore working as intended until anet changes it.

It is why I hope ANet changes it ASAP, so it stops becoming the norm. I personally see it as an exploit in the sense that the difficulty of the Dungeon is too low vs that of the other Dungeon paths for such a fragile party composition (that’s on the developers, though, not the farmers.) There should be more “easy” options else where, or at least it should be riskier/harder than it currently is for that “more efficient” party build.

I never join them to later complain about it, however. Though it is silly seeing these demands on LFG-some people go a long way to look as anti-social as humanly possible in some of the ads.

While people are free to form their own more casual groups, it is important to note that the prevalence of this exclusivist mentality on LFG means that a majority of CoF speed run groups looking for people are of this type. I have seen non-elite type of players make a “zerk” Warrior from level 1 to 80 JUST to farm this path, because it has sadly become the norm, and they don’t want to “lose out” due to the prevalence of the copycat, “meta” build.

Only thing I can add is: if you don’t really enjoy this type of job-like playstyle, please do not join any of these groups, as they won’t be a good fit for you at all. The word “speed run” is not bad by itself, but the more reqs. you see (LF Guard/Warrior, knows fights-even if you know the fights, zerk only, ping gear, etc.) the farther away you should stay clear of them.

They will probably tweak it, like they did AC. But the zerkers will move to the next easiest one and the story will continue as before.

As someone else mentioned, you can make more money by playing the TP but that takes a lot more time and dedication to get it right. And it being “extremely boring” probably goes without saying.

Sorry, getting off topic here. Point is, if you have long term goals (legendary etc) of any kind you are almost forced into this type of play style because of the way certain things are designed in game. If making things like legendaries require skill in stead of all out grind this might not have happened to begin with.

I have a similar story that I’ll keep short.
Full exotic gear, lvl 80, 100% map star going for Ascalonian Catacumbs for the first time.
As soon as I asked if it was cool being my 1st run I got kicked, like 4 times that day.
People just rather spend 20 minutes waiting for someone than 10 explaining anything.

As a result I just ended looking up a walkthrough video on YouTube before I had a go.

Dean Calaway.9718:

I have a similar story that I’ll keep short.
Full exotic gear, lvl 80, 100% map star going for Ascalonian Catacumbs for the first time.
As soon as I asked if it was cool being my 1st run I got kicked, like 4 times that day.
People just rather spend 20 minutes waiting for someone than 10 explaining anything.

As a result I just ended looking up a walkthrough video on YouTube before I had a go.

Guilds > pugs.

You don’t have to live with someone you treat badly in a pug. There’s a good chance you won’t be seeing them again. Guilds have different standards, at least the ones I’ve been in have.

Not farming guilds maybe but most guilds will explain and help you out.

Dean Calaway.9718:

I have a similar story that I’ll keep short.
Full exotic gear, lvl 80, 100% map star going for Ascalonian Catacumbs for the first time.
As soon as I asked if it was cool being my 1st run I got kicked, like 4 times that day.
People just rather spend 20 minutes waiting for someone than 10 explaining anything.

As a result I just ended looking up a walkthrough video on YouTube before I had a go.

Never tell anyone it’s your first time. If you screw up you can apologize and most of the time they’ll just continue through the dungeon. But if you tell them up front they won’t give you a chance to screw up.

tolunart.2095:

Never tell anyone it’s your first time. If you screw up you can apologize and most of the time they’ll just continue through the dungeon. But if you tell them up front they won’t give you a chance to screw up.

That’s not at all true. My first time in an explorable dungeon I made it very clear I was new and didn’t know what to expected/was expected of me. A friendly mesmer took the time to explain the plan of attack at each stage of the dungeon. If upon telling them it’s your first time they have a problem, that’s probably not the kind of person you’d generally want to spend your leisure time with anyway.

tolunart.2095:

Dean Calaway.9718:

I have a similar story that I’ll keep short.
Full exotic gear, lvl 80, 100% map star going for Ascalonian Catacumbs for the first time.
As soon as I asked if it was cool being my 1st run I got kicked, like 4 times that day.
People just rather spend 20 minutes waiting for someone than 10 explaining anything.

As a result I just ended looking up a walkthrough video on YouTube before I had a go.

Never tell anyone it’s your first time. If you screw up you can apologize and most of the time they’ll just continue through the dungeon. But if you tell them up front they won’t give you a chance to screw up.

Thats BS. I’ve had runs on all my characters in all dungeon paths (ones I couldn’t get guild runs for) after I specifically stated that it was my first time.

@ Dean:
You did the right thing in looking up the vids on youtube. Smooth sailing from there on.

Never tell anyone it’s your first time. If you screw up you can apologize and most of the time they’ll just continue through the dungeon. But if you tell them up front they won’t give you a chance to screw up.

No, no, no. Just no. This is terrible advice. I pug regularly and most pugs I’ve been in (non-speedrun/farm groups) are happy to have players new to the dungeon (I’ve never seen anyone kicked for being new). Not to mention that it takes much less time to warn someone about traps or tricky parts than to have to extract their corpse from the situation. Doing this kind of stuff not only hinders the rest of your group, it deprives you of an opportunity to learn the path so you can do it should you find it fun.

It’s a hit or miss, you gotta just keep putting yourself out there. It’s basically like a job application, most places want prior experience, but it’s so hard to get that initial experience but eventually someone will take you under there wing. This will result in the best results because then you’ll get a supportive, helpful group that will play within your ability.

I loved the upgrade to AC explorable, I can’t wait til it’s done to CoF

emikochan.8504:

I loved the upgrade to AC explorable, I can’t wait til it’s done to CoF

If this will happen, I’m gonna start farming several other dungeons before those dungeons get heavily invaded by the “elite-all-zerker-perfect-execution-only” crowd :P SE or HotW is where I’ll go to now! hehehe… As for Cof, I’m bored of it, so I am gladly taking time off it.

On the topic at hand, I see it got down finally to whose priorities are higher and such. My opinion is always that everyone has a right to do things as the way they want to. It’s certainly ok if some people want to look for only a very very very specific kind of ppl to fill in their party slots for their perfect runs. It’s certainly ok if they feel they can find other ppl to replace a party member they feel is less efficient. But I do think it’s not ok if they do it rather rudely. I don’t feel justifying rudeness is ok at all. That’s the way I see it.

Barbelo.5916:

generalraccoon.3857:

Let me get this straight. The OP’s mistake was:
1. Didnt pull slave driver into the wall.
2. Didnt time warp fast enough.
3. Didn’t cast feedback fast enough.

And for that you get kicked? OMG I am so thankful for being in my guild then. I’d have been kicked a hundred times over by such people. I ran several CoF p1 farms recently. We never really did #1, is it really THAT necessary? As for the other 2 points, well, I get that some people want to do fast runs and all but I feel like that just crosses the line. It’s not like the OP didn’t do it at all.

The person that told me all this said we would have saved “about 20 secs” had I done everything perfectly.

That’s hilarious, since I’m sure they wasted more than 20 seconds kicking you from the party and finding someone else.

They should kick themselves.

IMO, the videogame is something called “super pretendy fun time”, and nothing should ever take precedence over this.

It is for this reason that I am only “elitist” in only one manner: I liberally use the block function. As far a I am concerned, in a game with such a large population, any person in that game only gets one shot. If they do something that really ticks me off and they don’t apologize for it, blocked and forgotten.

I suggest others use this method as well. If someone, or ANYONE is doing stuff you don’t like and doesn’t stop or change, block them and leave it at that. Then maybe when this person finds themselves unable to communicate to half the server, they’ll figure out something is up.

Man..as a newcomer, if this is what I can look forward to at the endgame, I may as well just quit now :|

Yawn. That’s a lovely strawman you came up with there. Did you have fun with it?

Seems you need the situation explained to you better:

Your position – Extremely sensitive peoples’ feelings are the single most important thing in the entire world, and anything that may or may not incidentally harm them (held to the standard of the most sensitive person in the entire game, rather than to a “normal,” average, median, or even nth percentile measure) is far more important than any possible motivation behind the action.

Rational position – There’s no responsibility for every single individual in the world to break their back in order to ensure extremely insecure people don’t perceive horrible offenses being committed against them around every corner.

The fact of the matter is the enjoyment of the game by 4 people in a party is more valuable than the enjoyment by the 1 remaining person in the party. Groups in Guild Wars 2 are extremely informal arrangements where people try work together for a common goal. If things aren’t working out, they’re not working out and the informal arrangement should be broken. If you’re driving somewhere with someone and they suggest you take a shortcut, but it becomes immediately apparent that taking that shortcut is going to damage your vehicle, you should turn around and go the other way. Even though not taking the shortcut might hurt that person’s feelings, no rational person is going to seriously risk their life and property just to ensure that person’s feelings are protected, and that’s when dealing with someone they presumably actually know and care about for other reasons.

I know it’s hip and cool to be “empathetic” and “concerned” but to people actually capable of coherent thought, it’s pretty clear those people are just pretentious kittens who think far too highly of themselves.

This type of person is a part of online gaming I’ll never understand. The whole ’I’m a total and utter jerk and proud of it’ thing…the kind of person who – in a situation where one person is a deliberate and obnoxious twerp to another, is going to blame the guy that got offended rather than the guy who started it.

Sigh. And this is why gaming will never, ever become acceptable as a mainstream passtime. This right here.

Starbird.4029:

Man..as a newcomer, if this is what I can look forward to at the endgame, I may as well just quit now :|

They represent a realy small sample of gw2 community. So no biggie, you’ll be alright as long as you avoid them

Clipbord.8726:

Elitism is part of every MMO, I never have problem finding a cof group. There are a lot of non elitism out there, gw2lfg.com is your best bet, and as long as you know what you’re doing, doesnt matter the group or class, you should finish in an efficient amount of time.

This.

My sister and I run a zerker warrior/mesmer set because we like to kill things fast (considering that our mains are Engi/Ele respectively you can see why we do). What cracks me up is that for a long time I was running around CoF in greens and none of those elite groups ever seemed to care that my mesmer didn’t apparently DPS fast enough. I also popped off stuff incorrectly or occasional misspulls but over all they never even knew that I wasn’t ‘geared up.’ The reason I say this is because they would ask me to run again afterwards. :/ Goes to show they really don’t even know what they’re looking for.

Secondly, because my sister wanted the full gear from CoF, I would post up a request for grouping on gw2lfg.com. Originally it used to be: LF3M P1 & p2 /join. Over time it’s come to be what I use now: LF3m P1 & P2. Any class welcome. No gear ping. /join. o__o It’s crazy that I have to even go so far out to say that there are no real requirements other than you know the dungeon fight. Best of all neither I nor she have ever noticed a difference in speed when we have a diverse group of classes. It takes roughly about the same time each time even with a deaths/resets.

But it’s not just CoF that suffers from this. CoE is also specific on class requirements just not as noticeable as CoF. I had posted for CoE runs for my mesmer because I wanted the bottom from the dungeon it wasn’t until I started posting Zerker Mesmer into the comments section that people would add me and then I had to know “the trick” as well.

In any case, elitism will always exist and to a point we all do it. I do it in terms of knowledge of a dungeon because I don’t want to have to bother to type out how fights go and what people are supposed to do, I try to exclude newbies from the run (this is not to say I don’t do them just not always). However my advice to you and to everyone else that doesn’t like it is just don’t join up with them. I start almost all my parties now and take on anyone willing to do so. I’ve had amazing times out of it. Have some fights been longer than others? Yeah but not enough that it felt like a chore just that I would notice 3 mesmers, 1 warrior and 1 necro would take longer to beat down the final boss is all (class diversity IS important but not a HUGE deal).

It also bothers me that if a person in the party makes a small mistake or gets trapped (which happens a lot in the acolyte room) that they say “I’m so sorry!!!” like it was some grievous offense. :/ My sister and I always have to go “It’s no problem. Things happen.” because well.. it does. No one can play perfectly every time, every second. That’s unnatural.

Starbird.4029:

Man..as a newcomer, if this is what I can look forward to at the endgame, I may as well just quit now :|

I’ve realized that many people in the game are still willing to help (like one of the warriors in the party who responded and took the time to show me what to do). In the 6 months I’ve been playing this game that was really the only time it happened to me. Although those other people in the party don’t define a whole community it made me wonder if that was the direction the community was heading; such that new players will get kicked and berated by the more experienced ones and the newer ones are just supposed to take it if they want to play this game. This is what’s happening in World of Warcraft and it’s the reason why I decided to quit WoW for good after returning to it and finding that the community there was rather unpleasant and really unwelcoming to new and even rusty returning players like myself.

Yeah I don’t think I’ll ever touch a dungeon now. Seems to happen in every mmo nowadays as well. mmos just suck in general

Creeper.9360:

Yeah I don’t think I’ll ever touch a dungeon now. Seems to happen in every mmo nowadays as well. mmos just suck in general

You could always try what works for me. Go to the gw2lfg site and wait till someone posts a LFG that states they are tolerant to newcomers. Even though I have done some of the explorables now I still like to take my time with a more relaxed party. Doing so has not only gotten me into many non-skip groups (i prefer these) but has also made me some good friends.

These elitists are NOT the norm, it is just unfortunate they tend to be the most annoying/vocal. Please don’t let a few (dozen) bad apples spoil these dungeons for you; it would be a loss for you and the rest of the players if you did.

I’ve realized that many people in the game are still willing to help (like one of the warriors in the party who responded and took the time to show me what to do). In the 6 months I’ve been playing this game that was really the only time it happened to me. Although those other people in the party don’t define a whole community it made me wonder if that was the direction the community was heading; such that new players will get kicked and berated by the more experienced ones and the newer ones are just supposed to take it if they want to play this game. This is what’s happening in World of Warcraft and it’s the reason why I decided to quit WoW for good after returning to it and finding that the community there was rather unpleasant and really unwelcoming to new and even rusty returning players like myself.

So far my experiences haven’t exactly been positive, I must say. I started off and shortly after finishing the starter quest, I got my butt handed to me by a Sonic Turret of some kind that 2 shot me. Some guy ran by me, laughed, killed the turret, told me I was bad and ran off.

Shortly after I tried to party up with 3 warriors doing something and was told that if I wanted to PvE, I should abandon my thief asap and ‘start playing right’.

This reminded me of BC at its worst and I must say, on top of the various bugs and issues I’ve seen so far…have not made a very good impression.

Creeper.9360:

Yeah I don’t think I’ll ever touch a dungeon now. Seems to happen in every mmo nowadays as well. mmos just suck in general

Like Tommy has said, don’t feel discouraged. Many of us like newbies and teaching them and in gw2lfg.com you can find the party that fits your style. You’ll even find teaching runs where one or two party members will teach newcomers how a dungeon goes. Often I’ll run a newbie party or if someone joins up even if I asked for experienced, I’ll explain to them how it goes patiently and no one really cares often pipping up to put forth information. You only need to tell people you are new and the community here is really really nice in game. Just avoid the spoiled ones for the good ones and you’ll have a fabulous time.

Syeria.4812:

Ah, the infamous “my feelings are more important than your everything” argument. While I don’t necessarily support the specific behavior in the OP, that doesn’t justify your statement. My time has value. If your playstyle/build/gear choices waste my time, I’m going to try recoup what I can and move on. If the most efficient way for me to do that is by kicking you from my group and replacing you, that’s exactly what I’m going to do. If my fractals group needs a pug, we will generally force them to prove they have 20 AR before doing a fractal 26 run. Why? Because we’ve had plenty of people lie about having AR in the past, and a poor or undergeared player will cost the entire group a significant amount of time.

We’re (generally) not going to harp on people and tell them they’re terrible and try to hurt their feelings. We will kick them if that’s going to be in the best interest for the group. If getting kicked from a group for not being good enough hurts their feelings that badly, that’s a personal problem which really has nothing to do with me.

/ I want to note that I’m not talking about kicking people because they were “slow with Time Warp.” In general, we’ll suffer through a poor group and just avoid those people again in the future unless it’s egregious. We’ve kicked numerous people for clearly not having the minimum AR required for a run or for directly going against instructions repeatedly. The point is, our time has value too. If you’re wasting it, you’re hurting us far more than we’re hurting you by kicking you.

Quick observation: so this playstyle wants to use people from the community who are fully trained and practiced in CoF p1 speedruns, but is unwilling to invest in developing that skill in the community.

This means that other than the handful of people who developed the CoF p1 speedrun techniques and taught them to others, that the bulk of the “value my time” people doing these speedruns are in effect taking advantage of the investments others have made in mentoring/training people on this technique and being patient while they learned.

That’s being more of a parasite on the community than any other behavior I can think of, save maybe using chat in a city to beg for gold.

As a member of the GW2 community, albeit a very different segment and very different playstyle from the speedrunners, I’d like to think I could actively support every other segment and every other playstyle in the game as part of one larger community. This one is hard.

Try not to make it sound like the WHOLE of the GW2 community is like this will ya? Cmon. This kitten is in EVERY GAME from Final Fantasy online to World of Warcraft and everything in between. This doesn’t seem like a very useful post and doesn’t speak at all specifically about GW2 as a community.

bewhatever.2390:

Syeria.4812:

Ah, the infamous “my feelings are more important than your everything” argument. While I don’t necessarily support the specific behavior in the OP, that doesn’t justify your statement. My time has value. If your playstyle/build/gear choices waste my time, I’m going to try recoup what I can and move on. If the most efficient way for me to do that is by kicking you from my group and replacing you, that’s exactly what I’m going to do. If my fractals group needs a pug, we will generally force them to prove they have 20 AR before doing a fractal 26 run. Why? Because we’ve had plenty of people lie about having AR in the past, and a poor or undergeared player will cost the entire group a significant amount of time.

We’re (generally) not going to harp on people and tell them they’re terrible and try to hurt their feelings. We will kick them if that’s going to be in the best interest for the group. If getting kicked from a group for not being good enough hurts their feelings that badly, that’s a personal problem which really has nothing to do with me.

/ I want to note that I’m not talking about kicking people because they were “slow with Time Warp.” In general, we’ll suffer through a poor group and just avoid those people again in the future unless it’s egregious. We’ve kicked numerous people for clearly not having the minimum AR required for a run or for directly going against instructions repeatedly. The point is, our time has value too. If you’re wasting it, you’re hurting us far more than we’re hurting you by kicking you.

Quick observation: so this playstyle wants to use people from the community who are fully trained and practiced in CoF p1 speedruns, but is unwilling to invest in developing that skill in the community.

This means that other than the handful of people who developed the CoF p1 speedrun techniques and taught them to others, that the bulk of the “value my time” people doing these speedruns are in effect taking advantage of the investments others have made in mentoring/training people on this technique and being patient while they learned.

That’s being more of a parasite on the community than any other behavior I can think of, save maybe using chat in a city to beg for gold.

As a member of the GW2 community, albeit a very different segment and very different playstyle from the speedrunners, I’d like to think I could actively support every other segment and every other playstyle in the game as part of one larger community. This one is hard.

For the few and I stress few players out here who do use other players without giving back to the community, I can understand the word “parasitic”.

I understand there are players who embrace the “use players as if they are bots”. There are several other gear-centric MMO’s where this sense of non-respectful entitlement is the norm. The “self-focused only” behavior has been allowed and fostered by the game developers themselves, who also publicly disdain their own customer base.

ANet does not do this.

Thankfully there is a majority of players here who come from old school games which many of these entitled players have never experienced. For those minority of players that believe they are entitled (my time is important), having only experienced the MMO’s that support their self-focus, may explain their behavior. It does not, however, in the end, excuse it.

I am speaking of the ultra-fanatical self-focused players, which are a small minority in this game.

I am slightly perplexed about the desire to adhere to this fanaticism in this game where gear-centric “status” has limited value. Especially regarding legendaries, which can easily be bought on the tradepost, and may actually indicate only that someone has opened their wallet to “buy” their way to some supposed level of “success” in all probability supporting gold sellers in the process. (Apologies to those who actually worked hard to earn them, it is impossible to tell the difference.) I digress.

There is nothing wrong with wanting speed runs. There is nothing wrong with advertising for them. It’s a playstyle that some enjoy.

When it uses the community, without giving back, except for rudeness and disrespect, then it has crossed from playstyle preference to negative social impact.

The GW2 community as a whole can then choose to ignore those few players or tolerate their behavior. And in tolerating, may actually send the message this behavior is not only acceptable, it is welcomed within the larger community instead of only within the smaller circle of like-minded players.

The discussion on this thread is dealing with exactly that issue, which is important for the healthy growth of GW2’s culture as it forms within the first year.

And as long as the discussion is civil, it is important to air concerns, including viewpoints of speedrunners.

goldenwing.8473:

For the few and I stress few players out here who do use other players without giving back to the community, I can understand the word “parasitic”.

I understand there are players who embrace the “use players as if they are bots”. There are several other gear-centric MMO’s where this sense of non-respectful entitlement is the norm. The “self-focused only” behavior has been allowed and fostered by the game developers themselves, who also publicly disdain their own customer base.

ANet does not do this.

Thankfully there is a majority of players here who come from old school games which many of these entitled players have never experienced. For those minority of players that believe they are entitled (my time is important), having only experienced the MMO’s that support their self-focus, may explain their behavior. It does not, however, in the end, excuse it.

I am speaking of the ultra-fanatical self-focused players, which are a small minority in this game.

I am slightly perplexed about the desire to adhere to this playstyle in this game where gear-centric “status” has limited value. Especially regarding legendaries, which can easily be bought on the tradepost, and may actually indicate only that someone has opened their wallet to “buy” their way to some supposed level of “success” in all probability supporting gold sellers in the process. (Apologies to those who actually worked hard to earn them, it is impossible to tell the difference.) I digress.

There is nothing wrong with wanting speed runs. There is nothing wrong with advertising for them. It’s a playstyle that some enjoy.

When it uses the community, without giving back, except for rudeness and disrespect, then it has crossed from playstyle preference to negative social impact.

The GW2 community as a whole can then choose to ignore those few players or tolerate their behavior. And in tolerating, may actually send the message this behavior is not only acceptable, it is welcomed within the larger community instead of only within the smaller circle of like-minded players.

The discussion on this thread is dealing with exactly that issue, which is important for the healthy growth of GW2’s culture as it forms within the first year.

And as long as the discussion is civil, it is important to air concerns, including viewpoints of speedrunners.

Well, I couldn’t have said it better myself :P

I tot elitist players demand harder content and demand that all existing content be made harder to suit them.

If you don’t like speed runs why would you join one then come here to complain? You messed up the 3 main things a mesmer is in the run to do. A Mesmer’s job in CoF 1 is about as demanding as GW2 can get. Elitism =/= looking to play with like minded players, and you obviously don’t have the mentality that someone that could have learned the mesmer roll purely by observation on other classes. would. It’s not elitism just a mentality to play competitively and seek others to play with like that. It’s not their responsibility to teach you either, although it would have been nice if they did. A mesmer in CoF speed that isn’t doing their job is incredibly easy to notice so it’s a very vulnerable spot to be in if you are underprepared to be honest.

While over the top elitism is on one side of the spectrum there is also people that care so little and invest so little time that they become a burden and frustrating experience and can make playing the game much less enjoyable. GW2’s challenge bar is so low that even the most casual with the slightest bit of will power could bridge this gap.

To be absolutely blunt doing a few runs of CoF on any class would reveal almost all of the mesmer tricks purely by observing. I think the problem is your definition of your own experience and not that some people were looking to play with other like minded people, and wern’t trying to set up a mesmer classroom for you to learn.

You don’t even need 4 warriors but you do need a Mesmer mostly because from my experience you’re lucky if 1/5 people can do ball gauntlet without many attempts.

generalraccoon.3857:

Let me get this straight. The OP’s mistake was:
1. Didnt pull slave driver into the wall.
2. Didnt time warp fast enough.
3. Didn’t cast feedback fast enough.

And for that you get kicked? OMG I am so thankful for being in my guild then. I’d have been kicked a hundred times over by such people. I ran several CoF p1 farms recently. We never really did #1, is it really THAT necessary? As for the other 2 points, well, I get that some people want to do fast runs and all but I feel like that just crosses the line. It’s not like the OP didn’t do it at all.

1. Not really necessary. All speed runs without pull still result in 20s-30s kills by competent non-“elitist” 4 warriors.
2. Read above. I set up my phantasms then cast my TW sometimes.
3. Read above w.r.t the 2 shamans and turrets. Don’t even cast feedback at all.