Guild Wars 2

Mag Wars.1689:

Normally I am impressed with Anets updates, and they have made an extraordinary amount of positive changes within the recent months.. In fact, I have waited this long to say anything because I have been trying to give it the benefit of the doubt. But, the loss of 900 stat points in traits and the customization it offered F***ING SUCKS.

I used to have the most amazing build with a mixture of celestial / zerker gear and I used the stat points from the traits lines to balance my character out and it encouraged me to retrait for different dungeons and situations allowing me to really feel like I was playing my character and utilizing my options.

Now, my toon is so squishy, so weak, and just completely not the same character AT ALL. I couldn’t even do AC last night without dying literally 20 times. When I consider changing my gear, I am faced with another extremely annoying dilemma. My runes of strength are worth 15 gold a piece now, so not only do I have to make 4 new pieces of ascended gear, but I have to buy 60 gold worth of runes that I already have because I can’t salvage ascended gear, changing the stats in forge destroys the upgrade, and those COMPLETELY worthless upgrade extractors would cost me 200 gold to buy and use… LMFAO. This is so upsetting I don’t even want to play anymore. Wish I could get a refund on this expansion that’s probably going to take another several months to come out. so over it. At this point I have no motivation to play at all until the expansion comes out or until they fix this somehow. I just pray that the expansion is worth it.

aw man, the build that you found on the internet was destroyed, well i’m sorry for your loss i’ll be returning to the builds i actually created myself, ta ta

IndigoSundown.5419:

phys.7689:

IndigoSundown.5419:

My disappointment was not loss of stats, but shifting more stats to gear. Why not provide a stat interface option with a limit of 300 in any one stat and a number of stat points consistent with the 30% buff to gear stats (i.e., less than the 1400 possible under old traits)?

Because the current fad in design is simplicity over functionality

Trend, more likely. More’s the pity.

You still have the functionality, if you really want to go for a specific stat combo, get that kind of gear mix. The whole “going full this but balancing it out with stats from traits” idea still works, but it is called “going full this but balancing it out with a different ring/amulet/helmet/etc.”

Games change. You can either adapt or whine about it.

serenke.4806:

IndigoSundown.5419:

phys.7689:

IndigoSundown.5419:

My disappointment was not loss of stats, but shifting more stats to gear. Why not provide a stat interface option with a limit of 300 in any one stat and a number of stat points consistent with the 30% buff to gear stats (i.e., less than the 1400 possible under old traits)?

Because the current fad in design is simplicity over functionality

Trend, more likely. More’s the pity.

You still have the functionality, if you really want to go for a specific stat combo, get that kind of gear mix. The whole “going full this but balancing it out with stats from traits” idea still works, but it is called “going full this but balancing it out with a different ring/amulet/helmet/etc.”

While I get that your suggestion was well-meant, that is not what Phys and I were talking about.

At one point in time before the GW2 was released, you could in fact distribute stat points separate from traits (WP has a video that shows it I believe). IMO ANet erred when they combined the stat points with the traits and they should have kept them separate from the very start. There were lots of trait lines with mediocre to outright crappy synergy between the stats and the traits. HOWEVER, choosing to throw some of the lost stat points into the base character stats and rest into gear was not an ideal or even a good solution – it was just an easy/lazy one. We all lost character customization and many players gained a significant gold/laurel/guild commendation sink by needing to either restat ascended gear and/or buy new ascended trinkets. The trait changes were “generally” for the better, but the stat changes are the fuzzy end of the lollypop.

Lhos.1643:

Games change. You can either adapt or whine about it.

Wow, how philosophical of you. Yes they change, point is, when they don’t change for the better, or when that change causes massive upheaval and obsolescence of a lot of hard work and effort in the playerbase, then the change has been done WRONG.

This is crap. Complete crap. With a cutesy, sparkly non-intuitive interface slapped on top of it.

Last time I saw a game go this wrong, this fast, with changes that no one was really asking for, was the NGE in SWG. They too put in stupid circular advancement wheels into the game, and that is the first thing I thought of when I saw the craptasm of the interface and realized the dumbing down changes it was on top of…also, as an interesting aside they did that just as an expansion was coming out. A lot of people got their money back for that…just like many people, including me, are completely unenthused about this game now and will not be giving anet ANY money for this…funny how they also claimed that those changes were in the name of balance and “expansion”…

It is delusional to admit that you are giving your players FEWER choices, with FEWER options, and then claim that is ok, because now those fewer choices are more “meaningful”. That is beyond stupid.

At a minimum they should have allowed you to re-pick the stats on all of your gear, as they have done in the past when certain things were obsolesced. Having to regear, everything, across multiple alts, that you spent weeks/months on, is never going to be received well, and is a sign of dev failure. Having the game changed out from underneath you just isn’t something players appreciate.

They DID do that Dyvim. If you had ascended gear, all you need was the exotic insignia or inscription of the stats of your choice. If you had exotic gear, well, pretty much the same thing. All that clamoring for “give me free kitten because you made changes I dont like” is stupid.

There’s always one who complains. The bound stats to traits was a major complaint and now they removed it and others complain.

IMO it gives more versatility to remove the stats to certain traits, that was truly an awful idea to begin with. Finally they removed it. The OPs ‘versatility for dungeons’ isn’t needed anyway, just go berzerker, you don’t need those bits of other stats anyway…

First, why did you pre-order? When the expansion probably won’t be released for at least several months and without waiting to see how the recent patch update would effect your characters? Any major balance update to GW2, may well result in you needing to change your gear, costing you MASSIVE amounts of playing time and gold, just to get back to where you were before the new patch.

Secondly, have you put in a ticket asking for a refund on your pre-order? If the game as changed so you are unlikely to play anymore and HoT is not going to be out for ages, you have a perfect right to your money back. Most countries have trading laws that give you that right, so Anet cannot really refuse.

No one realizes that OP is talking about AC where the primary “issue” is increased downscaling?

IndigoSundown.5419:

My disappointment was not loss of stats, but shifting more stats to gear. Why not provide a stat interface option with a limit of 300 in any one stat and a number of stat points consistent with the 30% buff to gear stats (i.e., less than the 1400 possible under old traits)?

That would be a bad idea honestly. With the old trait system, where the stats were in the trait lines, you had to sometimes choose if you wanted stats or the traits you wanted. (Of course, there were also possibilities where the desired stats and traits were in the same line). If you seperate the two there is no more sacrifice. You would take your 3 strongest trait lines, and then proceed to put +300 in power, precision and ferocity (or condition damage if you play with conditions). It would make the offensive armor sets even more powerful and no one would even consider defensive stats anymore.

Wethospu.6437:

No one realizes that OP is talking about AC where the primary “issue” is increased downscaling?

The downscaling hasnt been an issue for me, and I’ve run AC since the update, particularly on the aforementioned Engi. It probably is just a matter of OP’s build being more noticeable as a trash build that relied on the old trait system as a carry. I mean, I dont see many threads complaining about dying so much in AC. Short of Anet “silencing” those threads, it’s more likely the OP has, as unfortunate as it is, a “git gud” problem.

The issue isn’t about “dying so much in AC”. It’s about the downscaling, and for that there are plenty of topics.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Has-the-super-downscaling-been-fixed-yet

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Downscaling-is-broken-Please-address-this

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Low-level-more-powerful-than-down-scaled

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Thoughts-on-recent-silent-nerf

Wethospu.6437:

No one realizes that OP is talking about AC where the primary “issue” is increased downscaling?

I’m pretty sure people have realized that in this particular case it was the culprit, but the OP talks about the horrible, awful, tragic death of their build which is then a wider topic.

His build is pretty much same. Few missing stat points from trait lines won’t have a big impact.

The recent changes really hurt my builds as well. Just came back today after a break and tried traiting my characters again only to find out traiting customization has been limited and some traits have been moved around, altered, or removed… Really frustrating since my tanky necro build cant be made anymore and my ranger lost the dps he had before.

Really disappointing with the way they made these changes and i’m losing all desire to really even play this game again because of it.

Thaddeus.4891:

Can I have your stuff if you quit?

You could change your trinket to adapt your build. They are far cheaper.

I’m sorry but if you have a mix of zerker and celestial and your character is too squishy for you, then you are not a really good player. Why did you went after ascended gear if you didn’t master your profession yet? I mean AC is already super easy on an Elementalist in full zerker so I can’t imagine any profession with some celestial gear.

Maybe you 2 should go 1 on 1 in PVP..see who is right about being a good player ?

Aerlen.5326:

“Full zerk or GTFO – zerk can do it so you suck”

Yeah, stop that, let the OP be upset. A bunch of all all had patch shock after we logged in and found our characters changed.

I agree. I mean I think the original complaint is laughable, but I had my points which annoyed me, too. happens when things change. Fair enough to rant about it

Mag Wars.1689:

I couldn’t even do AC last night without dying literally 20 times.

It’s hard to say for me, but it might not be your build that is a problem here.

Speaking of which, if either of the two reads this, thanks for the ~lvl40 people who did AC P1 with me and two lowbie guildies yesterday. Was a very pleasant run (we only had 3 wipes on burrows until we managed :P ) and was awesome to see such a happy reaction to newbie-waiting and newbie-explaining.

Sheesh. I feel bad for you. My elementalist is going to be running similar stats when it becomes 80 too, so I can understand your frustration.

Mag Wars.1689:

Ensign.2189:

starlinvf.1358:

1. It would not had been difficult to have kept the reserve stat points for free issue.

Of course it would have been difficult! It would have required putting an entirely new system into the game to distribute stat points on top of what you get from gear – a redundant system, since you already have the ability to distribute stat points using gear.

That is not a trivial cost – players are already selecting their weapon sets, their utility skills, their traits, and their stats via gear – and that’s not even considering runes and sigils and food and oil. It probably doesn’t seem like it as a veteran, but it’s actually a pretty complicated character build system with a lot of moving parts. Why does it need another layer of stat assignment, on top of gear? What variety and depth is that adding to the game that stats from gear are not? What are you buying with that complexity?

It really wouldn’t have been difficult. It already existed and worked just fine. And I’m glad you like to pay a lot of money and spend hours to switch stat points but I much prefer my freedom and the ability to change often without consequence.

Well to be honest the new system gives you more freedom than the old one did.

You aren’t forced anymore to add useless stats if you want to access a certain trait line. For example, running Piercing Shards & Aqumancer’s Training without having to dump trait stats into Vitality and Healing, same thing with wanting to run PS on a Warrior and being forced to dump trait stats into Vitality (Boon Duration is ideal for PS though but that’s another story probably related to normalizing boon and condi duration the same way as Ferocity went).

I would like a moment of silence in remembrance of Mag War’s build.
. . .

Even though this awful tragedy took it from us. . . we will always remember the way Mag War’s build would smile. It was a good build and it will never be forgotten. Amen.

Dyvim.8293:

Lhos.1643:

Games change. You can either adapt or whine about it.

Wow, how philosophical of you. Yes they change, point is, when they don’t change for the better, or when that change causes massive upheaval and obsolescence of a lot of hard work and effort in the playerbase, then the change has been done WRONG.

This is crap. Complete crap. With a cutesy, sparkly non-intuitive interface slapped on top of it.

Last time I saw a game go this wrong, this fast, with changes that no one was really asking for, was the NGE in SWG. They too put in stupid circular advancement wheels into the game, and that is the first thing I thought of when I saw the craptasm of the interface and realized the dumbing down changes it was on top of…also, as an interesting aside they did that just as an expansion was coming out. A lot of people got their money back for that…just like many people, including me, are completely unenthused about this game now and will not be giving anet ANY money for this…funny how they also claimed that those changes were in the name of balance and “expansion”…

It is delusional to admit that you are giving your players FEWER choices, with FEWER options, and then claim that is ok, because now those fewer choices are more “meaningful”. That is beyond stupid.

At a minimum they should have allowed you to re-pick the stats on all of your gear, as they have done in the past when certain things were obsolesced. Having to regear, everything, across multiple alts, that you spent weeks/months on, is never going to be received well, and is a sign of dev failure. Having the game changed out from underneath you just isn’t something players appreciate.

It -is- a matter of philosophy. Something bad happened. You can either find a solution to the new problem or complain about it (and apparently die some obscene number of times to what is generally regarded as rather simple content). I’m sure your complaints will have the change reversed immediately.

On the obviously off-chance they don’t, I suggest you deal with the fact your amazing build is now gone and find something that works and doesn’t get you dead 20+ times in AC while you do whatever it was you were doing that worked with that old build and obviously doesn’t anymore.

Alternate post:

TIL why there was a group in LFG for AC asking for 3+ pieces of ascended gear. AC must be hardcore.

Few missing stat points from trait lines won’t have a big impact.

Every traitline had 300 statpoints if you went with the old system where you could theroretically build around those stat points.
You could increase your hp for example. For those that had low hp it could mean life or death in certain situations. (less or more time to do a condi cleanse f.i.)

So yes, it does have an impact on those that were build that way, the devs said as much before the patch was released.

I suggest you deal with the fact your amazing build is now gone and find something that works and doesn’t get you dead 20+ times in AC while you do whatever it was you were doing that worked with that old build and obviously doesn’t anymore.

It’s exactly what i said in my previous post, you are being funneled into a certain direction, like it or not. Did we get more options ? No, we didn’t, it’s just that the options to choose from became viable while offbeat builds became obsolete.
Adapt or die, that’s indeed true in these cases.

Gerikstoof.9563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

My disappointment was not loss of stats, but shifting more stats to gear. Why not provide a stat interface option with a limit of 300 in any one stat and a number of stat points consistent with the 30% buff to gear stats (i.e., less than the 1400 possible under old traits)?

That would be a bad idea honestly. With the old trait system, where the stats were in the trait lines, you had to sometimes choose if you wanted stats or the traits you wanted. (Of course, there were also possibilities where the desired stats and traits were in the same line). If you seperate the two there is no more sacrifice. You would take your 3 strongest trait lines, and then proceed to put +300 in power, precision and ferocity (or condition damage if you play with conditions). It would make the offensive armor sets even more powerful and no one would even consider defensive stats anymore.

Thinking about this got me curious. I added up all gear stats on one character under the current system. The character has all exotics except for Asc. rings and amulets. The numbers worked out to 1246 major and 874 minor x 2. The total is 2994 points. Assuming the ~30% buff was actually 30%, the character would have had 2303 stat points on gear prior to the patch. The difference is 691 points. 74 points were added to the four primary stats. The total points added to stats for this mix of gear is (74 × 4) + 691, or 987. Obviously, full Asc. would increase that total slightly.

With all Berserker gear, the character received:

288 (gear) + 74 (primary buff) = 362 Power
202 (gear) + 74 (primary buff) = 276 Precision
202 (gear) = 202 Ferocity

So, 840 points were added to the Pow/Prec/Fero. stats. Allowing 300 into each stat would mean 62 less power, 24 more precision (slightly more than 1% crit chance) and 98 more Ferocity (slightly more than 6.5% crit damage). If that extra Prec/Fero would be too much, then allow 300 into one line and no more than 200 into other lines.

The point about opportunity cost is well taken, however. Before, extra stat points were tied to trait choices. This is also interesting. Let’s assume that one’s primary goal was to max the three direct damage stats. Four professions could gain a full 900 points to those stats, at the cost of accepting Condition Duration as the accompanying stat to Power. The other four could only gain 700 points to Pow/Prec/Fero and had to accept Cond. Duration, Cond. damage and Profession mechanic or Toughness (Guardians) as the accompanying stats.

Looking further at the stats with traits system, some professions could gain 1400 stat points, but doing so meant avoiding Profession Mechanic and Cond./Boon Duration. That would, of course, limit options severely. Spit-balling 1400 seems to be the flaw in my allocation flight of fancy. 1000 would be closer to what’s actually happened under “more stats on gear.”

All a moot point. What we’ve gotten instead is a system which requires one to change some gear pieces to achieve approximately what one had under the old system, with less access to duration boosts. However, putting the lost stats on gear has done approximately what you believe would happen to direct damage builds under an allocation system.

NTDK.4897:

@OP: if you die 20 times in AC, you should reconsider your playing style. It’s not even gears or traits at that point. Since most PvE are easier now (fractal 49 can be done in 30m easily now). I cant think of why a mix zerk, celestial and Strenght runes would be bad. Seem pretty meta.

It’d be meta on a EA PS Warrior…

And Fractal 50 was 20 minutes with the “broken” symbolic avenger + 5 zerk guards… I really enjoyed it for that week… But yeah, dieing 20 times (although I’m sure exaggerated) in AC, any path, is an indicator OP needs to learn the content better. Even drunk and on my zerk thief or ele I don’t die that much…. not nearly.

Sthenith.5196:

Few missing stat points from trait lines won’t have a big impact.

Every traitline had 300 statpoints if you went with the old system where you could theroretically build around those stat points.
You could increase your hp for example. For those that had low hp it could mean life or death in certain situations. (less or more time to do a condi cleanse f.i.)

So yes, it does have an impact on those that were build that way, the devs said as much before the patch was released.

And you got lots of stats back.

You survive 1 hit more in some cases. Perhaps reducing those 20 deaths to like 15. But that wasn’t the case.

I think taking the chance to learn to play the game better would solve a lot of the issues. Dying in AC is definitely you doing something wrong not the loss of stats.

I feel for you op, I had the opposite experience with one character and exactly what you described on another.
My Mesmer build was a mix of Carrion and Sinister before the patch and greatly improved with the release. My Elementaist did not fair as well with full Berserker gear. Prior to the patch, she was a powerhouse. After the update, she could still hit hard, but her survivability went way down.
When ANet said it was trying to encourage more diverse builds, it seemed to translate to “Break the Meta”, or at least shake it up. I don’t completely dislike it because I now have to re-trait all my characters and get them new gear too.
At least one of them is in a good place right now.

I am not fond of the change that puts the trait points onto equipment — which is very static — and not into a more fluid medium like trait lines. Taking away the ability to increase condition and boon durations also kinda sucks. I’d much rather that they had given us points to place as we wished on the fly instead of dumping them into equipment.

I can’t say that it ruined anything for me, it’s just that more choice is better. There is very little choice left in this game.

This seems like a kneejerk reaction to a single bad experience in a dungeon group that wasn’t good. You had a few low levels… yes that IS a problem. They probably didn’t have gear updated to their level so they were dead weight. People who bring low level characters don’t know what they are doing and are usually dead weight.

Sankofa Jimiyu.1567:

My Elementalist did not fare as well with full Berserker gear. Prior to the patch, she was a powerhouse. After the update, she could still hit hard, but her survivability went way down.

Is this a stat issue or a trait choice issue (i.e., ANet put two traits in the same tier so that you could no longer get both; or you can no longer select two adept traits in a given line).

If it’s stats, you might look at rings and amulet first since the Asc. ones can be gained with laurels. It may be possible to approximate your old stat numbers by changing anywhere from trinkets. Asc. Amulets and Rings combined have 409 primary stat and 278 × 2 minor stats and there are a decent selection of stat combinations.

As much as I would have preferred stat allocation to more stats on gear, ANet is not going to change this. Given that, it’s time to look at work-arounds. Also, fwiw, my Ele now does more damage than before and has not lost any perceivable survivability. Regen has lost a very small amount of HPS and this is more than compensated for by being able to get more regen via traits (I’m running 10011 atm, and may switch out to get Earth in WvW, depending on whether I’m roaming or not).

Good luck and have fun.

About those strength runes.
Since they are so useless now could you mail them to me?
Ty.

The gear didn’t make you not able to survive in AC. How do I know this? Because I ran it last night on my lvl80 venomshare condi thief. OH, and I was the only lvl 80 in the group. Every one else (some good RL buddies) was between lvl 30 and 77. No one had difficulties, I think there were only something like 3 total deaths. In fact, the run was pathetically easy, the entire group commented on how fast bosses were being downed.

WE DIDN"T NEED TO SEPARATE VASSAR AND RELENA.

I’m not saying there aren’t issues with the changes, but overall the changes have made content WAY easier.

Furthermore, we knew about these changes for a long time before they were implemented, and most people realized that they may need to exchange a piece of armor or two to maintain their current stat spread. If you didn’t prepare for a change you knew was being implemented, then it is NOT Anet’s fault.

Oberon Vex.1389:

The gear didn’t make you not able to survive in AC. How do I know this? Because I ran it last night on my lvl80 venomshare condi thief. OH, and I was the only lvl 80 in the group. Every one else (some good RL buddies) was between lvl 30 and 77. No one had difficulties, I think there were only something like 3 total deaths. In fact, the run was pathetically easy, the entire group commented on how fast bosses were being downed.

WE DIDN"T NEED TO SEPARATE VASSAR AND RELENA.

I’m not saying there aren’t issues with the changes, but overall the changes have made content WAY easier.

Furthermore, we knew about these changes for a long time before they were implemented, and most people realized that they may need to exchange a piece of armor or two to maintain their current stat spread. If you didn’t prepare for a change you knew was being implemented, then it is NOT Anet’s fault.

Are you sure the OP was not talking about AC Explorables? Vassar and Ralena are in AC Story, which is far and away the easiest dungeon in the game. That said, the OP’s issue in AC was more a down-scaling issue than anything else.

Is the title a danganronpa reference?

And I’m pretty sure the June 23rd patch wasn’t the Most Awful, Most Tragic, Worst, Most Despair-Inducing Incident in the History of Mankind.

Sthenith.5196:

I suggest you deal with the fact your amazing build is now gone and find something that works and doesn’t get you dead 20+ times in AC while you do whatever it was you were doing that worked with that old build and obviously doesn’t anymore.

It’s exactly what i said in my previous post, you are being funneled into a certain direction, like it or not. Did we get more options ? No, we didn’t, it’s just that the options to choose from became viable while offbeat builds became obsolete.
Adapt or die, that’s indeed true in these cases.

So we lost a bunch of ‘options’ but the ‘good options’ became much better/obvious (depending on the initial intention, of course)? Sound like a win to me.

Ad far as the op is concerned, if you were having success with only 4 pieces is Cele and this change ‘rekt your build’, it sounds like a problem of the new downscaling or you were just bad and getting carried. I can’t think of, imagine, or put together a build, in the history of GW, where a couple hundred stat points would mean the difference between absolute success and dying 20+ times. :/

Your silly thread takes away from actual builds that were actually put to death with this patch. P/P Ricochet Thief comes to mind, as well as maybe 3-4 others, but it sounds like you were just bad all this time or something, literally anything, other than what you think the problem actually is.

BTW Ele is better than ever on PvE!

Edit: quotes may or !at not be relevant…

Teevell.1684:

I hate to point out the obvious, but this is an MMORPG, a type of game which usually sees regular updates and changes throughout its lifespan. This will probably not be the last time a build you enjoy will be completely changed. If that isn’t something you can accept and adapt to, MMOs may not be for you.

Aenaos.8160:

About those strength runes.
Since they are so useless now could you mail them to me?
Ty.

nearlight.3064:

Is the title a danganronpa reference?

And I’m pretty sure the June 23rd patch wasn’t the Most Awful, Most Tragic, Worst, Most Despair-Inducing Incident in the History of Mankind.

It’s so obvious when people don’t actually read or understand the line of posting. LOL. Unfortunately there’s nothing I can do to help you except suggest you actually read and try to understand what you’re talking about.

Aye.8392:

I am not fond of the change that puts the trait points onto equipment — which is very static — and not into a more fluid medium like trait lines. Taking away the ability to increase condition and boon durations also kinda sucks. I’d much rather that they had given us points to place as we wished on the fly instead of dumping them into equipment.

I can’t say that it ruined anything for me, it’s just that more choice is better. There is very little choice left in this game.

Amen.

Tman.6349:

So we lost a bunch of ‘options’ but the ‘good options’ became much better/obvious (depending on the initial intention, of course)? Sound like a win to me.

Please tell me these much better / obvious options so that I only have to spend money once. K thanx.

And since you like your options to be obvious and superior… why doesn’t Anet just pick all of our stats for us? Just give us all one or two builds? Lock everyone in to the same small box. Sounds so fun. (Sarcasm)

Khristophoros.7194:

This seems like a kneejerk reaction to a single bad experience in a dungeon group that wasn’t good. You had a few low levels… yes that IS a problem. They probably didn’t have gear updated to their level so they were dead weight. People who bring low level characters don’t know what they are doing and are usually dead weight.

I agree it probably was just a bad dungeon with under-geared dead-weight noobs. And I obviously was probably exaggerating as I did not actually count the number of deaths (it just felt like 20+)

However, that has absolutely nothing to do with what I’m talking about. Being able to re-stat some of your points easily and for free to add a sense of customizability to your character.

ProtoGunner.4953:

There’s always one who complains. The bound stats to traits was a major complaint and now they removed it and others complain.

IMO it gives more versatility to remove the stats to certain traits, that was truly an awful idea to begin with. Finally they removed it. The OPs ‘versatility for dungeons’ isn’t needed anyway, just go berzerker, you don’t need those bits of other stats anyway…

Last time for clarification since you people don’t read. I LIKE that the stats and traits were separated so the focus could be on skills. I DO NOT LIKE that the selectable stat points were completely taken away from us and rolled in to EXPENSIVE gear (made expensive because of their failure to properly address upgrades) and that we have to spend all that money, crafting time, and bag space carrying all this gear around instead of giving us the ability to be versatile and adapt to different situations easily and without cost / difficulty / wasted time.

For the people who just QQ about QQing, all you’re doing is taking away from the larger and more important discussion… which is: whether you utilized it or not, the ability to change some of your characters stat points EASILY and for FREE was a very enjoyable part of the game and now it’s gone. Forcing us now in to making expensive gear changes because Anet can’t properly price upgrade extractors (which are a complete joke) and forcing everyone to go through a long process of crafting and buying expensive runes that we already have. Not to mention, any players who are unsure about these new changes or want to experiment with new stat point combos are now unable to without spending large amounts of cash and valuable time.

phys.7689:

IndigoSundown.5419:

My disappointment was not loss of stats, but shifting more stats to gear. Why not provide a stat interface option with a limit of 300 in any one stat and a number of stat points consistent with the 30% buff to gear stats (i.e., less than the 1400 possible under old traits)?

Because the current fad in design is simplicity over functionality

My only regret is that I can’t give you more than one +1.

CandyHearts.6025:

I would like a moment of silence in remembrance of Mag War’s build.
. . .

Even though this awful tragedy took it from us. . . we will always remember the way Mag War’s build would smile. It was a good build and it will never be forgotten. Amen.

Thats what i call epic trolling, but lest get serious for a moment, builds change, stats change, hud changes, i mean every single MMO is the same, i feel the op actually i never care to much about stats until i got my ascended gear (full berzeker, and no i dont like to much going that way, but well the devs make a game where only that kind of gear is the"one that really works"), is sad somehow that you allways have to go on a meta build, meta gear meta everything, where is the “build diversity” if every single player have to aim for “Zerker”, but well mobs on GW2 have become hp sponges, the only challenge here is how much time i need to kill X-mob with more or less hp.

Dont get me wrong i like the new stuff, what the hell i even like the new system couse finally i get to experiment new builds, and as a master crafter i can enjoy again making “new” (yes is the same crap) things to compensate for the “free” stats.

Remembers his old clone death build…..

I would still love to know what build has suffered this badly from the changes.

Ranger

We lost:
a +10% damage modifier from Hunter’s Tactics trait (turned into crit chance)
a +5% damage modifier from former trait Eagle’s Eye
6% critical damage via ferocity stat loss
And we lost the 5% vitality converted into power trait. This was replaced with 7% healing power converted to power.

LB ranger hits for noodles now. Anet is stripping the ranger of wanting to use its ranged weapons. It’s all "stack or leave from here on out.

(BY comparison: on warrior in the defense tree Armored attack 10% toughness turned into power. This gives you extra power even when you are fully zerk.)

The old trait system was severely limiting with those stat points..

even with the loss of those points all my builds got more powerful because of trait synergy and the fact I can have 3 lines now instead of 2

I fail to see why everyone is soo annoyed by these changes.. and frankly all it seems to come down to is that they just can’t seem to make their own builds and rely on other people to make them and post them online

I don’t see these complaints as valid at all
since the update I’ve created 6 new builds for my lvl 80’s most of them upgrades to their old builds and 2 of them entirely new.. and all 6 of them are far more powerful than anything I was running before with more dmg, more survivability and more party support

I’ve tested these builds against multiple bosses including dungeon bosses and entire dungeon solo runs and they all work better than i expected them too

My full Zerk Ranger soloed TA’s spider path with little effort not long ago
and the other day I soloed AC story mode in around 20-25 minutes with a necro wearing nothing but lvl 80 Rare gear.. with a totally untested and experimental build..

Frankly all these complaits about the new system just come accross as people who suck at making their own builds or are just too lazy to do it..

as someone who’s played with the system a lot since GW2’s beta I can say for a fact that this new system is ten times better and far easier to learn and use

I agree it is easier to use interface-wise however I do not agree with all the “people that aren’t performing better now than before are idiots” undertone to your post.

While some changes might help your build (which you never said what it was…?), that doesn’t mean the class as a whole wasn’t nerfed due to poor design choice. How can you really defend the trait that has 7% healing power converted to power? It’s a trait that shouldn’t even be an option outside of PERHAPS the eventual druid traitline.

Inclusions like this and exclusions for talents that were required to pull acceptable dps prior show a lack of unified vision from the devs that changed ranger.

SURE, you might have found one niche spec that works for you but does that justify the nerfs that have made both LB and SB weak on a class that was a bit niche at playing them?

People don’t want to be pinned into playing one play style. We were making do with a variety of builds before but the changes are funneling us all to have to pick similar traits and contend with being homogeneously subpar.

P.S. The fact you can solo TA spider path means nothing when other classes are also able to do it, probably in half the time :P Hit anything long enough and it dies.

While some of his reasons are a bit subjective, his points are some big issues in the game right now on their own.
Like not being able to get runes or sigils from ascended weaponary is hugely annoying.

Switching stats only being possible with gear is another that can be seen as annoying inventory management.

Especially when one of the arguments brought forward is to merely adapt to the new system and MMOs need changes. The current system isn’t too friendly to adapting at all.

Maybe they are betting on players buying an extractor by making it not too eady to switch, seemingly forcing people to buy such an expensive thing for something that should not actually be an issue is not making people stand too positively towards that.

Also building your character’s skillset is linear as opposed to being able to pick your skills fairly freely. Instead of picking a skill you like you need to go through the whole skilltype tree before ending up at the skill you want.

Alice.5360:

I agree it is easier to use interface-wise however I do not agree with all the “people that aren’t performing better now than before are idiots” undertone to your post.

While some changes might help your build (which you never said what it was…?), that doesn’t mean the class as a whole wasn’t nerfed due to poor design choice. How can you really defend the trait that has 7% healing power converted to power? It’s a trait that shouldn’t even be an option outside of PERHAPS the eventual druid traitline.

Inclusions like this and exclusions for talents that were required to pull acceptable dps prior show a lack of unified vision from the devs that changed ranger.

SURE, you might have found one niche spec that works for you but does that justify the nerfs that have made both LB and SB weak on a class that was a bit niche at playing them?

People don’t want to be pinned into playing one play style. We were making do with a variety of builds before but the changes are funneling us all to have to pick similar traits and contend with being homogeneously subpar.

P.S. The fact you can solo TA spider path means nothing when other classes are also able to do it, probably in half the time :P Hit anything long enough and it dies.

First of all I never called those people stupid..
If anything I called them lazy since they are unwilling to learn the new system and make their own builds

No I didn’t say what my build was intentially.. in all honesty I have personal issues with sharing my builds openly online..
I don’t agree with doing it because I do not want to unintenially end up causing more of this elitism meta bull which I personally find extremely toxic to the community..

im in no way saying thats what will happen if I did share them but i am not willing to take that risk <—(no idea why it thinks that is profanity)
I keep my builds to myself and share them only with friends..
but tbh here the new system is soo simple in its design that it takes minimum effort to work out how to make such effective builds like I did..
3 traitlines with 3 trait options.. its mostly just common sense to put builds together now.. and you no longer have to worry about wasted stats restricting your performance

I do use a couple of those 7% conversion traits myself.. and yeah they are specifically a little restrictive if you are not running the specified stats for it..
but in that case all you need to do is pick another trait instead
overall I don’t think the system is restrictive.. you can still run any class and any build with any stats you like..
the effectiveness depends on your own ability to run the build you make and how well the traits work together with the skills you’ve chosen
some traits are defined for specific builds.. thats the whole point of the traits..
if someone is running a Corruption Condi Necromancer and is traited for Minions.. speced with Zerker stats and then thats just… well stupid in that case.. the whole build would just be a bad joke.. and no class can spec for multiple build play.. thats not how the game works nor has ever worked

What Nerfs are you referring to with Longbow and Shortbow? cause last I checked Longbow got merged with the Eagle eye trait for perminant 1,500 range.. and its also traitable for faster arrows that pierce which massively improves dps
one of my Ranger builds is entirely designed around the Longbow Weapon and its one of my favorite and most powerful builds

the shortbow is a condition specified weapon mostly so unless you are runing a condi Ranger its pointless having one

People don’t want to be pinned into playing one play style thats funny because thats exactly what the Meta has been doing ever since Gw2 developed one
forcing people to play the same Zerker Warrior etc garbage with the same stacking tactics and flat out kicking people who play any different builds or even specific classes in general.. have you not even seen the discrimination Necros have been getting for practically 3 years?..

this new system changes that because it makes all classes viable and capable with different build capabilities..
soo what if someone can solo run a dungeon faster than me with a different class or build..
the point is that now I can do it myself and with the build I want to play.. that is all that matters

My problem with the claim in this thread is that I’m unaware of any trait so amazingly powerful that changing it would have causes a build to go from something being used to utterly trash. Even a few traits in concert being changed would be hard pressed to destroy a build. This is why I would like to know what builds have been utterly ruined.

Losing some damage is not what the OP is referring to. That would not be enough to make his build dead.