Guild Wars 2

Or fix forum bug

Still wondering what Will happen after timers are setup and 100 ppl come riding in….

1 no problem?
2 long distances to travel after death? Due to lack of WP’s
3 all patatoes and toasters smoking at 5 FPS ppl annoyed vowing to buy better rigs or leave
4 high end gamers kittened due to FPS drops down to and below the lower 20’s on 1000 + €/$ systems….
5 ppl mad due To being late at every boss due to travel time… WP’s missed…
6 ppl mad due to slow gain of masteries and slow unlock of new critters to sit on…
7 ppl mad due to all Hot masteries having 0 impact….

LESS IMMERSIVE TRAVEL IS NICE !!
UNTIL YOU NOTICE YOU’RE MISSING CONTENT WHICH SHOULD HAVE BEEN EASILY ACCESSIBLE FROM PREVIOUS EXP WHILE USING WP’S.

LET’S CROWDFUND ASURA WAYPOINTS IN POF!

8 OH and ppl leaving due to unexplained travel sickness while still behind the PC…

Perfect animations are nice… But of stuff get’s more complicated. PPL will be annoyed.

Still not convinced……

I can give you two scenarios that mounts are always helpful. Farming nodes and map exploration. In both you’re not really Waypointing around and the mount will increase efficiency. So they have a place for people who do both.

Gulesave.5073:

Rhanoa.3960:

Rikimaru.7890:

Honestly we already have lots of masteries that do exactly the same stuff as them i.e. jumping over gaps, reaching high places: Updrafts, Leylines, Bouncing Mushrooms, Nuhoch Wallows, Rift Traveler, Explosive Launch, Thermal Propulsion, Oakheart’s Reach. We can already do all that the mounts can do ok?

This is all you had to say.
Now go read how folks do not want to take the time to unlock these features that you and I took the time to do.

They are leveling the playing field once again.

However, blood vessels will burst out of foreheads when they realize they have to unlock mounts with masteries as well.

It will be fast and easy for folks like us because we know how all this works.
We will then squeal like a couple teenage girls at a New Kids on the Block concert in excitement only to be resented all over again.

Updrafts, mushrooms, etc. are all HoT masteries. Players who do not to buy HoT won’t have access to them at all. Each expansion is depending only on its own masteries. I think this is a smart business decision to not alienate new players, and also to make each expansion feel unique.

Also, the top argument is kind of like saying, “We already have specs that can deal damage, why introduce more?”

I came here to say this after reading the OP. The HoT masteries are separate from PoF. Some people may not buy HoT and thus don’t have gliding, bouncing mushrooms, etc.

While granted, you kinda need gliding for LS3; it has its own masteries as well.

I also really enjoyed the mounts, much more than the WoW ones. And the Raptor makes me happy since I played a troll hunter in WoW. I’m hoping we can get armor skins and a second dye channel for them.

HoT and LWS3 go together.
PoF and LWS4 go together.

Any questions?

I just think the mounts are glorified jump skills with the ‘need’ for them artificially created by the lack of waypoints in the new map. The lack of waypoints will just become annoying for many reasons listed by previous posters.

Even the need to gather 10 or 20 coral or whatever in order to activate a shrine is just time gating and an annoyance- there was zero need for it, and it just means having reached what appears to be a shrine you can’t actually use it and you just wasted all that time getting there- go farm more. Then you just lose interest in repeating what you just did, log off and play something more interesting than JP/farmville.

The new maps could have been done with the HoT masteries. Having more jump mechanics just makes it feel ever more like a platform game, but with those jump skills hidden behind gates of exp.

Perhaps the majority of ‘players’ really do want another platform game – as that seems to be the direction Anet are heading in.

the answer to the question that wasn’t asked would be just one word: “choice”.
If you give People means of travel, they can decide for themselves, how they are going to traverse those maps.
You on the other Hand aren’t forced to use them. You can completely ignore mounts and simply move the classic way without mounting any beasts…
i guess the real reason why arenanet brought them is to have another cashcow for mictrotransactions. Any mount-equipment-sales already planned? ’I may like them.

jheryn.8390:

Vayne.8563:

This is why taking responses in context is important. The OP stated categorically that mounts are useless. I said they’re not to me. One of us is talking useless end stop, one of us is talking about what I personsally prefer.

Point 1. Mounts are useless
Counterpoint: Mounts aren’t useless to me, therefore they’re not useless.

They’re not useless to anyone who

1. Wants to customize their character further
2. Wants to stop using runes for a speed buff, or a specific build just to get a speed buff
3. Wants to get through a zone to a contested waypoint from another waypoint

If none of this has ever happened to you, mounts may be useless to you. The difference is, I didn’t post a thread about it on the forums saying they were useless. I responded to a thread with my own opinion.

It doesn’t matter to me if you personally understand both sides or not, because I’m replying to a thread that doesn’t.

The anti-mount sentiment on these forums has always been way overblow to me. But I try only to talk for me and people like me, rather than to make broad sweeping statements that are demonstrably untrue.

You’re not forced to use a mount everywhere in the open world, but there are places it will be useful.

Vayne, I was in no way tempting to admonish you. I agree with you 99% of the time and I admire what you post here on the threads. I also wasn’t defending the OP or standing up for his position.

What I was attempting to point out was a perception that you post above proved to me. It was an outlook problem on mounts and a word usage problem.

You are correct in what you say about mounts and how they can be useful to people.

I think what I got from the OP’s post was that mounts were “useless” in the sense that they did not need to be added to the game.

He referenced reasons why they didn’t need to be added to the game. With the exception of his “mounts don’t fly” he isn’t necessarily wrong. His reasoning for not having them added to the game were held by many including myself.

Your reason for them not being useless are ones that are only valid because of the way that they were implemented in game, not justification for adding them to the game.

1. Customizing your character could have been accomplished in many ways. Mounts do allow for customization and are useful, but in a broader sense were unneccessary to the game for customizing characters. Useful in game now that they are here. Yes. Useful to the game that couldn’t have been done in a different or existing ways? No.

2. Again, only useful because of the way Anet implemented them. They could have made them merely cosmetic where runes and traits were still necessary. So again, useful as implemented, but not necessarily useful to add to the game.

3. There is an easy way to get from contested waypoint to contested waypoint now. Run. We didn’t need mounts for this one. The company could have just put them in places where they would not be contested all the time or moved existing ones to accommodate this. Mounts were not necessary in this sense.

The fact that mounts in this game move faster was a company decision, not that they had to be speed buffs.

So you are most certainly right about them being useful now that they are in game.

Considering the term useful in another way, were they useful to the game before implementation? No. The same things mounts provide, could have been done with other methods already existing.

tl:dr “Useful” is a subjective term with more than one meaning depending on context and perception.

Actually useful isn’t a subjective term in this case. Gliding is useful because it has uses. Whether those uses are something you want to acknowledge or not those uses exist. For example, even without the changes to heart of thorns, gliding can prevent you from falling to your death by triggering it just before you land. That’s objectively useful even in core Tyria, whether you like it or not.

There are zones where waypoints exist in number that are mostly contested most of the time. In those zones, mounts would get you to where you are going faster. Far faster than a waypoint you can’t actually use.

This, to me, proves that the statement mounts are useless is factually untrue.

You can say I don’t like mounts. You can say you don’t add to the game. You could say that you’d prefer the new zone have more waypoints than it does and no mounts and I’d not say word.

But the worlds Mounts are Useless is a statement is simply wrong. It’s an opinion, stated as a fact that would seem to be hyperbole. Someone overstating a case to try to make it so their opinion is in fact the only acceptable opinion. I’ll always comment on that because I dislike the use of hyperbole.

I never claimed anyone should like mounts, though I believe the resistance to them for most people is largely unfounded, but I also don’t want to not respond to someone who feels the need to overstate things to make a point.

There are mount arguments that I haven’t said anything against. This just isn’t one of them.

edit: Sorry if I came off defense, btw, but sometimes on these forums…well even paranoids have enemies. lol

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

How do Mounts get in the way of things one wants/needs to interact with? They aren’t interactable (so they can’t deter from an established interact item); we have interact keys, so we don’t need to see or even be that close to interactable content.

Fortunately, this isn’t ‘other games’.

I’m sorry that you can’t see the potential issues right now, but I’m certain that you will once the expansion comes out.

Serophous.9085:

You know what could’ve been a better feature than mounts?

A build template system so we can swap builds and gear faster.

Or gvg

But…ya know…mounts

THIS!

And more armor sets!

Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921:

I can give you two scenarios that mounts are always helpful. Farming nodes and map exploration. In both you’re not really Waypointing around and the mount will increase efficiency. So they have a place for people who do both.

We already had movement speed increase and gliding. In core that was fine for me. In HoT we also had HoT movement masteries. In PoF we didn’t need yet more movement gimmicks, we already had enough.

Djinn.9245:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

How do Mounts get in the way of things one wants/needs to interact with? They aren’t interactable (so they can’t deter from an established interact item); we have interact keys, so we don’t need to see or even be that close to interactable content.

Fortunately, this isn’t ‘other games’.

I’m sorry that you can’t see the potential issues right now, but I’m certain that you will once the expansion comes out.

How about an example, then? Because my interact key works whether there are 20 large Norn in the biggest Wings around, or no one or nothing near what I’m trying to interact with.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Djinn.9245:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

How do Mounts get in the way of things one wants/needs to interact with? They aren’t interactable (so they can’t deter from an established interact item); we have interact keys, so we don’t need to see or even be that close to interactable content.

Fortunately, this isn’t ‘other games’.

I’m sorry that you can’t see the potential issues right now, but I’m certain that you will once the expansion comes out.

How about an example, then? Because my interact key works whether there are 20 large Norn in the biggest Wings around, or no one or nothing near what I’m trying to interact with.

I misspoke – what I meant to say is that you will read about the issues people have on the forums. Not everyone uses their interact key – a large percentage of people click. There is also the simple visual impediment which will affect people who look at the NPC images on their main screen to locate them as opposed to the symbols on the minimap. Etc. I’m certain that you are correct and mounts won’t effect you in any way. They will however effect me and at least some other people.

What do they click? The ‘interact’ option that appears on the screen whether the item/NPC can be seen or not. I click it more often than not. It still shows up, whether you can see the Banker in DR, or Royal Terrace, or wherever. I think most players use the description/title floating above to locate something, rather than trying to determine if the face of that NPC indicates Merchant or just random NPC. Again, nothing obscures those floating descriptors/titles. You can have complaints about Mounts, but not about things, such as not being able to interact with something, that aren’t affected. If Mounts were interactable, like Boxes of Fun, or such, and could get in the way of other interacts, I’d agree…but they aren’t.

Here’s a funny thread from a couple of years ago: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Gliders-just-a-worse-version-of-flying-mount/first#post4775975

Some players were apprehensive about the introduction of Gliding, as well. Aww, we see how that turned out. Perhaps, we should give Mounts some time, and see how it turns out. =)

Good luck.

I’ve contemplated this dilemma (deeply) and I have a solution: separate map instances for pro/anti-mounters, dictated by a flag in the Options panel.

Those that wants mounts can tick the flag and get put in maps where they can see/ride mounts.

Those that leave it unticked get put into maps where the entire map is a non-mount zone.

I know, I know. It’s brilliant in it’s simplicity.

makagoto.1204:

the answer to the question that wasn’t asked would be just one word: “choice”.
If you give People means of travel, they can decide for themselves, how they are going to traverse those maps.
You on the other Hand aren’t forced to use them. You can completely ignore mounts and simply move the classic way without mounting any beasts…

Actually this is not true. The game DOES force you to use them in some places. You had to use them to complete the first story instance for PoF, and I am willing to bet money that there will be other places within the story, as well as sections of the maps, that will require a mount.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

What do they click? The ‘interact’ option that appears on the screen whether the item/NPC can be seen or not. I click it more often than not. It still shows up, whether you can see the Banker in DR, or Royal Terrace, or wherever. I think most players use the description/title floating above to locate something, rather than trying to determine if the face of that NPC indicates Merchant or just random NPC.

I’m sure you’re right – I’m probably the only one who will have a problem.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Again, nothing obscures those floating descriptors/titles. You can have complaints about Mounts, but not about things, such as not being able to interact with something, that aren’t affected.

Yes Sir, I’m not allowed to have complaints. Got it.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

If Mounts were interactable, like Boxes of Fun, or such, and could get in the way of other interacts, I’d agree…but they aren’t.

Here’s a funny thread from a couple of years ago: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Gliders-just-a-worse-version-of-flying-mount/first#post4775975

You obviously aren’t bothered either by the many gliders that have large and intrusive visuals. I’m sure I am alone on this one also.

You must be completely correct. However I will maintain my own opinion if that is OK with you.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

I’ve contemplated this dilemma (deeply) and I have a solution: separate map instances for pro/anti-mounters, dictated by a flag in the Options panel.

Those that wants mounts can tick the flag and get put in maps where they can see/ride mounts.

Those that leave it unticked get put into maps where the entire map is a non-mount zone.

I know, I know. It’s brilliant in it’s simplicity.

LOL. Are we back in time of the German Wall during DDR times, or when Blacks were only allowed to sit on designated seats on the bus? But sure, let’s divide the playerbase further; it’s not that this was NEVER a concern before.

I may be wrong but. Way points has been less and less since silverwastes and has nothing to do with us having access to mounts. I think it is because the game becomes a little bigger if you have to treverse the maps more then just jump to every location you need to go to.

About mounts not giving you any specific than what other mastered does. Well they do. We are going to the dessert, there is probably no mushrooms to let us jump, speedboost or recharge our skills. The different races is not there… We need new means to get us around the new area, mounts seems to be a perfect answer. Not only do they help us get around but as we level them up with materiens they will have some more special abilities.

As story goes, Elona is a place where Asura haven’t been that much. Why and how would there be alot of way points there?

To everyone claiming that we “Don’t need another movement gimmick which requires grinding masteries”:
Just stay in core tyria and chill around lion’s arch. You won’t have to grind anything.

But don’t try to take away what makes up RPG’s: personal progression.

About the porpuse of mounts:
Yes, the mounts only get their use by designing the maps in a way that requires mounts.
Q: where’s the difference to HoT?

I love how all these real haaardcore HoT “veterans” are still trying to get to stop people (who skipped HoT) from having fun in PoF (and core Tyria) with new mechanic that is not their precious gliders and shrooms. Real champs you are.

The ability to use waypoints from any location is to simply make them more convenient for players. Imagine if you actually had to touch them to access the waypoint map and reviving was only possible at the last one you passed by.

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

As story goes, Elona is a place where Asura haven’t been that much. Why and how would there be alot of way points there?

Well there are waypoints in Dragon’s Stand next to an Elder Dragon

maddoctor.2738:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

As story goes, Elona is a place where Asura haven’t been that much. Why and how would there be alot of way points there?

Well there are waypoints in Dragon’s Stand next to an Elder Dragon

Yea becouse the Pact or the other factions has set it up there. There are still Waypoints in Elona too. I said why there would be alot of waypoints, there isn’t many Waypoints in the HoT maps iether.

I for one believe there there should have been mounts from day one. Yes portals may be faster. But for those that want to explore. Only mounts will do. Portals do not allow for exploration plain and simple.

Hyrai.8720:

To everyone claiming that we “Don’t need another movement gimmick which requires grinding masteries”:
Just stay in core tyria and chill around lion’s arch. You won’t have to grind anything.

But don’t try to take away what makes up RPG’s: personal progression.

About the porpuse of mounts:
Yes, the mounts only get their use by designing the maps in a way that requires mounts.
Q: where’s the difference to HoT?

Mounts (for some people like me) cannot and will not ever be progression. They are degradation.

1) I do not have the choice to see the game anymore as it looks now, players wise. I love seeing players, use their mobility skills, their weapons, armor, dye combo’s etc. Mounts will take that away. Mounts will trample the game with massive zoo effect (players will not walk normal anymore.

2) A lot of content REQUIRES mounts in pof, i don’t even have to choice to bypass it with normal walking

3) for min maxing, (wich a veteran always will do), mount is now forced gameplay. First rumors said they are not faster then players, but watching video’s, they seem even a little faster then superspeed…. Copy that speed to swiftness/superspeed now, and I have a choice. Without is, not much choice heh?

4)“Go back to Lion’s ARch, problem solved”. See 1). It’s not solved. It will be a zoo infestation (a degradation, not a progression).

5) Gliding, is much cooler then mounts and does everything, but that insane jump raptors do.

6) Mounts still take time to get someplace. Waypoints barely do. New map by definition will be much more time consuming. I know for certain that after a while, the area’s with only sand, (and no trees, water, or buildings) will be insanely boring, after a while.

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

I for one believe there there should have been mounts from day one. Yes portals may be faster. But for those that want to explore. Only mounts will do. Portals do not allow for exploration plain and simple.

Walking = exploration.

What is with people, that makes ‘mounting’ more exploration? We run unnatural fast in game (like a sprint speed, but as long for marathon). Be happy you and explore and are as fast as a real life horse. But it’s still not enough. Why do people have to associate horse-riding with exploring in a game. Why is seeing the nicely dye’d armor you made not good enough in a game? I seriously don’t get it. Mounts are mmo-maker indoctrination. Just like smartphone, We think we need/like them, but in reality we don’t.

1) by progression i did not mean the mounts themselves, but the path to them: the masteries.
+ you can still see the characters and their weapons + dyed armor, sitting on their dyed mounts, probably even with special mount skins.
since you can’t fight sitting on mounts, you will still see players walking around using their skills.

2) do you have a choice in HoT?

3) for minmaxing veterans there is – and will always be – “forced” gameplay everywhere around gw2. what’s the difference now?

4) missed my point again. it’s not about you seeing mounts as “degradation”. it was about people not wanting to grind masteries (which are progression by their nature, no matter what you say). also mounts will most likely be banned from towns.

5) for you gliding is “cooler”. for me mounts are cooler. but this thread is not about our personal perspective on mounts, it’s about whether mounts have a purpose (and why?) or not.

6) looking at other maps with very few waypoints, which are often contested in addition, I don’t see where having a mount to get around faster than by walking is negative… also i haven’t seen a single PoF map with “only sand – no trees, water, or buildings” so far.

about your 2nd post:
mounts are not necessary for exploration, that’s right. but they make it a lot more comfortable for a lot of people. just like smartphone make a lot of people’s lifes more comfortable.

anyways, considering your perspective on mounts as “degradation” in combination with your signatures logic and all your arguments basically being based on “i don’t like mounts”, we will never be able to convince you of mounts being an enrichment for the game.

ACTUALLY, waypoints can be really useless too. Especially in Cursed Shore. They are contested alllllll the time! The amount of exp and loot I’ve missed because I didn’t get to the events in time thanks to contested waypoints is too kitten high… At least my mount will help me get there faster!

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

I for one believe there there should have been mounts from day one. Yes portals may be faster. But for those that want to explore. Only mounts will do. Portals do not allow for exploration plain and simple.

Walking = exploration.

What is with people, that makes ‘mounting’ more exploration? We run unnatural fast in game (like a sprint speed, but as long for marathon). Be happy you and explore and are as fast as a real life horse. But it’s still not enough. Why do people have to associate horse-riding with exploring in a game. Why is seeing the nicely dye’d armor you made not good enough in a game? I seriously don’t get it. Mounts are mmo-maker indoctrination. Just like smartphone, We think we need/like them, but in reality we don’t.

Moving around is exploration. Walking is just one of the ways to explore.

Moving around is exploration. Walking is just one of the ways to explore.

Depends if mounts could allow you to exploit and avoid fights/places.
If so, it will be still exploration, but way less than walking.

Exploration isnt passive. If youre actively avoiding places and fights then youre not exploring.

So overall people might be exploring less because its easier to avoid fights and locations, this doesnt mean there is less exploration available.

In a way it becomes less necessary to explore, though that option is still available to you.

I personally am someone who kills stuff on the way regardless. In the demo I did exactly that, even with a mount. Even better was to instant mount, use jump skill and unmount again when jumping from one location to another.

One thing that does interest me is how easy it is to switch mounts.

Avoiding places in terms of “there’s a pull between me and the cave and i can’t avoid it nor kill em. Oh wait, with that specific mount i could avoid em”.

If you avoid the plain full of enemies and reach directly the cave, for an instance, it’s not skipping exploration, but having a easier one.

shrug Many players avoid mobs with stealth teleports and swiftness regardless of mounts. Have you ever done dungeon or fractal runs? People avoided mobs whenever they wanted to.

So it’s easier to avoid? In the open world there’s not even one location where its not already really easy to avoid fighting.

They updated Orr in the beginning of the games live to make it easier to explore.

Plus if they really need to make it so you cant cheat it with mounta they can make it a mountfree zone. Or install a few mount traps like the forged use in the demo map to kick players off their mount.

Problem is, instead of proposing a new addition to gameplay that in combination with what already exists creates more choices, PoF is actually banishing any advancement obtained through HoT masteries, replacing them with mounts masteries.
Mounting is not a choice, but a requirement, and an artificially created one, which also depends on eliminating previous choices.

Ardid.7203:

Problem is, instead of proposing a new addition to gameplay that in combination with what already exists creates more choices, PoF is actually banishing any advancement obtained through HoT masteries, replacing them with mounts masteries.
Mounting is not a choice, but a requirement, and an artificially created one, which also depends on eliminating previous choices.

This is expected since PoF is standalone and doesn’t require HoT. If PoF zones required HoT masteries then HoT would be essential and not optional.

FrizzFreston.5290:

shrug Many players avoid mobs with stealth teleports and swiftness regardless of mounts. Have you ever done dungeon or fractal runs? People avoided mobs whenever they wanted to.

That’s what i am talking about.
There’s no need to push in that specific direction with mounts too ( glider also did his part indeed ).

For dungeons/fract they should have done something like “if you aggro, mobs follow you till the end of cave”.

Don’t get me wrong, you save time up and this is great… but would be better a major reward and a dungeon run how it should be.

Part of the content ( exploration, dungeons, fractals, etc… ) is made for… nothing?
Since you can skip whatever you want ( or exploit through mechanics ).

maddoctor.2738:

Ardid.7203:

Problem is, instead of proposing a new addition to gameplay that in combination with what already exists creates more choices, PoF is actually banishing any advancement obtained through HoT masteries, replacing them with mounts masteries.
Mounting is not a choice, but a requirement, and an artificially created one, which also depends on eliminating previous choices.

This is expected since PoF is standalone and doesn’t require HoT. If PoF zones required HoT masteries then HoT would be essential and not optional.

Yes, I think it’s very important for people to remember that PoF is standalone. There are going to be a lot of people who don’t have any HoT masteries playing it. If there were a bunch of updrafts, leylines and mushrooms dotted about the place then people would get the feeling that they need to go back and get their HoT masteries.

If there were a bunch of updrafts, leylines and mushrooms around the maps then it would also give an immediate advantage to people who played HoT; “so I can unlock my skimmer mount and get its mastery level 4 to get past this part of the map and access that area over there or… I can jump on that leyline and glide over there now.”

A key thing for people to appreciate is that the reverse is also true. PoF mounts will work in HoT zones and will be great there but HoT masteries will still be required for a lot of the content like nuhoch wallows, mushrooms, gliding, leylines, updrafts and so on.

This is good, if nothing else it gives a real reason why people will want to and need to play the expansion. If it wasn’t the case and HoT masteries were heavily used in PoF we’d have even more threads about how mounts are useless and not required.

Ardid.7203:

Problem is, instead of proposing a new addition to gameplay that in combination with what already exists creates more choices, PoF is actually banishing any advancement obtained through HoT masteries, replacing them with mounts masteries.
Mounting is not a choice, but a requirement, and an artificially created one, which also depends on eliminating previous choices.

Thats the mastery system. Its there to let you progress abilities to explore the map. Same as in HoT.

Then again, I’m totally for character based mastery progression.

maddoctor.2738:

Ardid.7203:

Problem is, instead of proposing a new addition to gameplay that in combination with what already exists creates more choices, PoF is actually banishing any advancement obtained through HoT masteries, replacing them with mounts masteries.
Mounting is not a choice, but a requirement, and an artificially created one, which also depends on eliminating previous choices.

This is expected since PoF is standalone and doesn’t require HoT. If PoF zones required HoT masteries then HoT would be essential and not optional.

I’m not speaking of requiring HoT, but about having HoT masteries still playing a role as a parallel route. This way someone who bought both expansions can play in more ways. You can use the rabbit mount to go up that cliff, AND you can also use that mushroom; you can use new gear from PoF to confront that new boss, AND you can also call an exalted helper to back you up; etc. HoT is not required, but is also not forgotten.

Right now it feels like they wanted to erase HoT from existence while you are in Elona.
Would make sense to ban first generation elite specs form the new expac maps? I don’t think so. The logic should be the same with masteries.

i mean, i understand the principle of creating parallel routes that require HoT masteries next to routes that require PoF masteries.
but..
..1 this thread literally is called “mounts are useless”. by making such parallel routes available, wouldnt that make mounts even “more useless”?
..2 players who don’t own HoT will feel like they’re missing out on something. even if thats not the case overall.. the feeling will be there.
..3 i can already see HoT owners complaining about lack of progression because the mount mastery doesn’t have a purpose if you can easily travel around Elona by just using HoT masteries.

Didn’t some Living World Season 3 maps use new movement features and leave some Heart of Thorns core map movement features behind? There is still Gliding, and who knows?, there might be the occasional obscure other additional HoT Mastery feature tucked away somewhere (purely optional, of course).

Ardid.7203:

I’m not speaking of requiring HoT, but about having HoT masteries still playing a role as a parallel route.

Gliding was rather useful in the demo, you could get to many places easier with gliding than moving around on your mount. I doubt we’ll see any LS3 specific mastery abilities, which is understandable, while the more specific ones, like Itzel Poison and Nuhoch Wallows wouldn’t make any kind of sense to be used in PoF.

Which leaves us with mushrooms, updrafts and leylines. Mushrooms are a jungle thing so I seriously doubt we’ll see those in PoF. Leylines can be seen (but not interacted with) even in core tyria (Dry Top) so maybe we’ll see leylines in PoF too, after all Elder Dragons eat magic through the leylines. Updrafts I’m not so sure, it depends how vertical the rest of the zones will be, but an updraft in the middle of a desert would look a pit weird.

There is a possibility to use HoT masteries in PoF, gliding was already proven to be useful in the crystal desert, even in the demo. Leylines are my best bet for other HoT masteries used in PoF. In a very very similar way you can use PoF mounts to get to places you can’t without HoT masteries, for example getting to Burnisher Quarry requires Nuhoch Wallow mastery or Leyline mastery. With PoF, the Sprigan could easily make that jump.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

they seem even a little faster then superspeed….

Mounts are a 200% speed increase over the standard out of combat run speed. For comparison, swiftness is 33% and superspeed is only 36% due to the movement speed cap.

Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921:

I can give you two scenarios that mounts are always helpful. Farming nodes and map exploration. In both you’re not really Waypointing around and the mount will increase efficiency. So they have a place for people who do both.

For farming nodes they may actually not be so helpful, due to the “dismount to farm/need to remount later” mechanic.

IMO, everything can be justifiable with some imagination. Updrafts are quite common in real deserts, while ponds and volcanic activity can be almost anywhere. Poison could also exist in different places (I’m sure some of the new foes will be venomous). I don’t think this is about lore or mechanics, but only about development and money.

I can understand HoT masteries not being used right now, given the nature of the adjustments Anet did to give relevance to mounts (not adding, but replacing). What I cant understand is why they did take that route in the first place.

Is the 3rd expac going to use the same strategy It seems to be used here (make old masteries useless to give new masteries relevance)? Will they give us yet ANOTHER way of doing the SAME movement across the new maps? Will it invalidate mounts so they can reapply the same basic mechanic to another thing (vehicles, elevators, magic portals, giant tentacles, etc)?

I really hope I’m wrong, and indeed the new maps offer ways to keep using HoT stuff, (And the 3rd expac offer ways to keep using mounts too), but right now it seems pretty cheap to nullify your current horizontal progression to create a new, awkwardly similar, horizontal progression someplace else.

Ardid.7203:

IMO, everything can be justifiable with some imagination. Updrafts are quite common in real deserts, while ponds and volcanic activity can be almost anywhere. Poison could also exist in different places (I’m sure some of the new foes will be venomous).

And i definitely would like if the “see through stealth” mastery worked on some of the non-HoT mobs as well.

I’m not someone that played HoT, I quit GW2 after season 2 and wasn’t particulary interested much with what was offered in HoT at its launch. However, I’ve been considering getting back into GW2 with the state of the game now and where its going. Being a person that hasn’t bought HoT I do have a view that some might be forgetting:

1-The mastery system from what I understand was implemented as a way our characters would understand and “master” the in game world for their maximum benefit. HoT masteries are divided into 2 categories Mastering the Maguuma Jungle and Mastering Core Tyria. You only get access to those from owning HoT, remember that.

2- Living world S3 as per people’s comments has added new masteries, again something that is tied completely to HoT and in fact you DO NOT have access to LW S3 without owning HoT.

Why would there be any of the features or things that were present in the Maguuma Jungle that were only found IN the Maguuma Jungle that required you to Master them IN the Jungle to traverse through the Maguuma be present IN the Crystal Desert/Elona. I don’t get people’s complaining about not needing mounts. There was no NEED for mushrooms, lava catupults, alice’s rabit hole for teleportation or gliders to be implemented in HoT. The devs did it as a progression system, to have something to work towards and to be honest made sense given how they wanted the Jungle to feel. A multilayered environment of humongous trees and plantlife. They could have just as easily made it multilayered with pathways going up and down between the layers of the Jungle. Interactable environmental objects to get you to certain areas. That would have been pretty boring though and there really wouldn’t be anything for you to work towards. Implementing those into the game made for a fun way of traversal that, don’t forget, content was gated behind them. In some areas it was REQUIRED to reach those new areas whether for progression or exploration.

Elona is a desert environment, why would it have magic mushrooms or leylines or the need for gliding from high areas and magic oakheart holes that take you somewhere else? Lets say there was no need to implement mounts, and we used those skills from HoT, Where’s the progression in that? Would people not hate on Arenanet for pulling something like that off? I played the PoF demo and can say the mounts feel awesome to use, very different from how mounts in other games feel. And only required in certain areas, similar to how I believe in HoT the skills from those masteries were required to progress. I remember reading about how some story missions were only doable if you had certain masteries unlocked. I can tell you now that at least in the PoF demo I finished that first mission without using the mount and without gliding. But even if it was a requirement, you only need it to jump gaps. How is that any different from needing to be able to use leylines for gliding or needing gliding at all to pass an area in HoT.

The only real issue I can side with is the lack of waypoints in the area. Don’t get me wrong, core tyria imo had way to many waypoints and I rememeber playing when in major events people would ignore you if you died and shout in chat to just revive at the waypoint and come back. Also being able to teleport everywhere made traversal feel too simplistic and easy. There was almost no need for running to places (long distaces) which is great for those of us with jobs and responsibilities that meant saving on time (which was a major selling point for core GW2). But then we realised we wanted to get places we had to run to faster and we started running builds that had mobility in them or singets that gate the 25% MS boost out of combat, heck even rune sets for the movement speed. As a Thief, it was crazy to even think about playing the open world without my shortbow because it was how I could get to places real fast. ITS LIMITING. Now with mounts you don’t have to worry about that. To those saying well mounts mean we don’t have to fight mobs, to some degree that is true. But for the open world you fall under two categories of people:

1- You either fight every mob to your destination bec you like that
2- You use your mobility skills to run passed mobs to get to your destination

With mounts, if you are part of the first group, you’ll just get to those mobs quicker without the need for signets/runes/buffs. Hell you even have a combat opener skill from your mount. Don’t tell me having a mount will prevent you from fighting mobs on your way to your destination if that’s how you play the game. If you’re part of the 2nd group, you can just run by them quickly wihtout the need for signets/runes/buffs. Its a win/win situation.

Cont. in next post

Sure not having enough waypoints in the map can be a problem for some people, but to be completely honest it makes sense gameplay wise/lore wise to not have that many. Gameplay wise Anet wants us to find a use in mounts, it a selling point for the expac after all.
Lore wise, this is a desert environment which warrants less exploration. From what I understood from the initial story mission and from the ending of LWS3 (from what I’ve watched/read) is that we’re following Balthazar’s rampage as he’s on his way to go kill Kralkatorric. Not the whole pact mind you, it looked like only a group of us actually went to follow him. Contrast this to the Maguuma Jungle where you had the whole Pact pushing into the jungle to defeat Mordremoth. There’s more reason there to be more waypoints lore wise. You’re trying to push into the jungle into dragon controlled territory as a whole Pact effort so it makes sense to make more waypoints to ease travel and control over areas. This is Elona and you’re a small group following Balthazar, running into the Elonans which no race has interacted with them since forever. Who from the looks of it, don’t have much in terms of technological advancements and are still using animals as a form of transportation. This is the Crystal Desert Mastery system. You master the ways of the Crystal Desert, which is using what the denizens of the desert use to traverse the area. This so happens to be mounts. Since you’re not going into the whole area with the full force of the Pact behind your back, no having a lot of waypoints doesn’t make sense. No one’s supposedly explored Elona in at least Decades from Tyria. We lost contact with them ages ago. So it makes sense that the asura haven’t explored it all and what little Waypoints we have makes sense. Especially when it seems that those waypoints are in cities, which again makes complete sense lore wise.

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

I may be wrong but. Way points has been less and less since silverwastes and has nothing to do with us having access to mounts.

You’re right, it has to do with all the other travel masteries.