The New Dailies -- Feedback welcome
If you’re intent on only doing PvE, then you’ve got a self-imposed restriction that is making it more difficult than it needs to be for you.
Really. Tell that to the friend I knew a little time back who has cerebral palsy and can only use one arm/hand (with poor coordination, at that).
Self-imposed. Hmm.
you can play wvw with one hand and win i do it daily for the sake of eating while i play. just get the guy a 12 button mouse and set auto run and his skills to it and he is fine
I for one do not appreciate the efforts Anet has made to try to force me and others into other parts of the game, starting with, I believe, requiring the WvW maps to be done for 100% map completion.
Anet has made not one single effort to force you into anything. Ever.
Requiring the WvW maps as part of the world map completion, removing choices (twice now) from the dailies list. They call it encouraging people to try other parts of the game, I call it by the name it should be called by, attempted forcing. But technically you are correct, they are also not forcing me to play a game that I used to enjoy more, but less so now because they are repeatedly removing more and more choices.
Actually it is better for WvW and PvP now.Before there were more PvE dailies and less for the other modes.WvW and PvP player base had to enter PvE to finish their dailies.Now it is a lot more equal.Their foot may never step outside of the modes they do,because now it is 4/4/4 and you have to complete only 3 of 4 for full reward.Before if WvW or PvP players had only 2 or 3 dailies in the rotation then they had to go do PvE to finish the 5/5.
The current daily system is good it just needs a bit of tweeks.Maybe Anet have to make it less restrictive.For instance they can remove the 11-20 Fotm requirement.Some people just don’t have enough AR to do it even after an year and a half lol…
TxS – Tequatl Slayer Alliance (EU)
Just wanted to chime in and say that I really dislike the new dailies as well. My problem is with the specific zones required. It was like this before and then Anet changed that to no more specific zones and it was a very big welcomed change for me. And now it’s reverted back to specific zones for PvE dailies… even if some of them are hilariously easy (mining, vista) I just don’t want to hang out in Iron Marches to do events… when a lot of them are still broken even since the patch that introduced Mordrem events…
I’m thinking about stopping doing dailies entirely since it’s drawing me away from the fun parts of the game now.This really made me a sad panda.
Don’t worry.Stopping doing dailies won’t be a problem if you never were,are or will be an AP grinder to begin with.
In my opinion this change is targeting the WvW,PvP and AP farmers.They were neglected for far to long.I do agree that it needs a few more tweeks here and there for PvE specifically as it is to restrictive.Also the PvP class specific part may have to go.It is toxic and ruining PvP.
TxS – Tequatl Slayer Alliance (EU)
(edited by moiraine.2753)
I’m just going to sum up the ridiculous opposition here:
And I in return will once again refute your actually ridiculous points (where applicable).
1. We don’t care that we’re getting rewarded more. That’s not the point.
Actually, that is one of my points. Less effort to earn those points means those points have less value now than before. You do more effort you get more points under the old system. I have not looked into the new system that deeply as I have chosen to spend more time posting here than I have doing restrictive dailies that I have lost almost any desire to do now.
2. We don’t care that it takes less time to get those greater rewards. That’s not the point.
Slightly off on this one as well. Some yes and some no. It is not my main argument, never has been. If it takes more or less time than before is up for debate as this mostly depends on the play style of the person doing them. There have been days where I was able to get 8 or so daily items (on the old system) done on my three accounts within an hour, if I chose to put the effort in to do so. The time spent, if being based only on people who have the areas already would most likely be less if they knew where to go already from playing the game.
3. We don’t care long-time marginalized groups benefit greatly from the changes (AP Hunters, PvPers, to a slightly lesser extent, WvWers). That’s not the point.
I have never had an issue with people benefiting, unless it was at the expense of others, which is the case here. And technically AP hunters both benefit and suffer from this. See my above note about reduced value of rewards.
So what’s the point?
The point, before, now, and still is leave the choice of what to do up to the player.
1. We want to never be pushed outside our comfort zones. That’s the point.
That is up to the person to decide for themselves. Less options takes that choice away from the person, which is my point. Me personally, I have no interest in certain parts of the game. And for me, I play a game because I enjoy it. If I stop enjoying something that I do for recreation, then I will stop doing that event, or in this case, game. Life is for being pushed out of your comfort zone or not, not a game, unless it is the choice of the person.
Nice desperation reach trying to use this point, by the way.
2. We want to expend absolutely no additional effort in order to attain any daily achievements. They should come as a natural byproduct of what we happened to be doing anyway. That’s the point.
That is why it is a reward for playing the game. Those people who put in the extra effort to earn more points by doing more effort deserve more reward than those that put less effort in. That is what ties the reward level to the effort being put into it. I (and here is the operative word) earn less AP points than some people because I do less than they do, BUT I STILL EARN AP POINTS, because I was doing things that awarded me those points for the things I did.
Guess the ball is back in your court again.
Or just eliminate the daily system altogether and attach the AP to the daily login reward system.
Leave the dailies, remove the 10 AP, reduce every above 20k AP to 20k and remove the skin rewards from AP? :P
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
Also, can we please stop with the “LOLNEWPLAYERTRYINGTOGETTOSILVERWASTE” argument? You don’t need to go to Silverwaste to complete the daily for a newplayer, because a newplayer only needs to complete 1 of the achievements to get credit. That could be looking at a vista, or gathering some wood.
Of the two achieves that you could possibly do as a low level character, each was set in a specific map that many lowbies might not have and might not even be feasible for them to get to if they’re just starting out. Having only four very specific tasks for PvE dailies is incredibly restricting any way you look at it. Yeah, you can supplement with PvP or WvW, but why build a system that forces players into content? They should discover and experience those aspects of the game at their own pace. It seems like a lot of the adventure and discovery of the game has disappeared, only to be replaced with ANet’s heavy handed attempts to shepherd us through areas of the game that they feel need more traffic.
And honestly, that’s what bugs me the most: that I’m being coerced into something. I can even ignore the dailies, to be honest, but its the login rewards that have me eyeing the uninstall option. I mean, getting former daily rewards, that required actual effort… just for logging in? It just feels like a ploy to boost logins, and I really don’t want to be a part of it.
…What are you talking about? A level 1 player can both gather wood in Kryta (Queensdale) and look at a Vista in Ascalon (Plains of Ashford, or even Black Citadel). And a new, level 1 player, only needs to complete 1 item from the entire list to receive the 10AP.
If they’re human or charr… or figure out to use the gate system in their home city.
There’s always google, or the wiki, but I’d recommend you do a little experiment instead. Stand in any starter zone or town, and type in mapchat, “I’m new, how do I get to Kryta?” Then tell us how long it takes for someone to tell you, or even show you the way.
If I have to leave the game to search the web, or another player has to lead me through content to show me how it works, then that aspect of your game has failed. And here ANet has failed.
It completely breaks immersion. Not only that, but expecting low level characters to schlep all the way across Tyria to gather wood for a daily just seems ridiculously awkward. Talk about not playing how you want. Why can’t I gather materials in the area I’m progressing through now?
Asking for assistance from other players in a multiplayer game “breaks immersion?” Do you play this game like it’s a single player game?
Googling as per your adviced, alt-tab out, does break immersion. Asking for help from other players ingame, does not.
Sure, but the point is you shouldn’t need extra direction just to complete a daily. And it still doesn’t address the inconvenience. I would add that having to jump to a different starter zone would break immersion as well for some players.
You’re stretching there and you know it. I didn’t even know the dailies existed until I was well into the 20s and 30s on my first character, but had I known about it, I would not feel bad about having someone give me a tour of Tyria starter zones to get it, and I doubt many new players would either.
And yet, you probably still completed at least 1 or 2 daily items, and maybe even as much as an entire days worth to get the achievements without even knowing in, in spite of yourself. Some players prefer to find things out for themselves. I know it is a wild concept, but not everyone is exactly like you. Different people have different views of things.
Bluntly, more options benefits more people. A system that rewards more effort with more points is better, not worse. This is now not either one of those.
Keep in mind everyone, that one of the WvW dailies doesn’t require you to fight players at all. Most achievement hunters have some badges of honor hanging around.
Go into WvW, you’re perfectly safe in your base, and spend a few laurels. Takes a minutes. Then you only need 2 dailies.
Except those people who (for whatever reason) choose to not do WvW, and are not less of a person or player than anybody else for not wanting to.
All except newer players should have some Badges of Honor unless you spent them all. The AP chests have Badges of Honor in them.
Doesn’t require any real playing of WvW to do so.
Not talking about any real playing, talking about not even going there at all, which even if they did get some WvW badges from PvE rewards still negates having to go to WvW to spend them, unless there is another way I am not aware of.
Then I honestly have no sympathy for you if you’re not willing to hop over to WvW to buy something worth 25 badges of honor and instead choose to do the daily option which you knew beforehand would take you a few hours to do. What else are you going to spend them on? You obviously don’t do fractals often so the Ascended gear you can with them is useless as you likely have what you need for the levels you do (you’ve obviously done them 11 times at least given what I heard in chat in game). I highly doubt dungeons as well so you wouldn’t get the boost there to add to your DPS contribution. So I don’t see why the aversion to spending the Badges of Honor and then deleting the thing you bought or consuming it if it’s a consumable.
It requires absolutely 0 amount of actually doing WvW. And I can see why you wouldn’t want to do the others as they involve actually playing. WvW isn’t everyone’s cup of tea. But spending Badges of Honor you’d otherwise never spend isn’t something that can be excused with the same excuse.
You chose to not do the quick ones and put yourself into the situation where it took you 3 hours to do the Daily.
It still requires someone to go to WvW, which is more WvW than some people care to do. And your reasoning is the same lame argument as before, basically amounts to “shut up and do it” and that somehow people who choose the parts of the game they want to play should be made to feel like less of a player because it is different than you.
And thank you for making our point for us, it was their choice to make for themselves. If they did the quick ones that took 10 seconds or 2 hours, it was THEIR CHOICE.
Never saw so many selfish and self centered people in one place like there are in this “discussion” – on both sides.
For all of you attacking people whose “world is broken” because of daily system change, one day Anet will change part of game you like in manner it will be broken for you in same manner this change broke part of game these people like and there won’t be anyone to sympathize with you because they were all “chased away” by other “negative changes” done by Anet or by your highly toxic responds to their more or less valid thoughts about this or other changes.
Same can be applied to people who attack those who like this change, don’t attack them for liking this change even if their posts are highly toxic, just don’t do it, there is report button for a reason – use it if they were toxic/offensive but don’t abuse it.
You should be all ashamed, this is game and we are supposed to have fun here, not to use it to build up our own insecure egos by attacking others just because their opinions differ from ours, leave that out of this place, we should be able to take a break from such things here, thank you.
I don’t attack the person, I attack the logic (mostly the total lack of it).
I would like to join in the “don’t like it” crowd. It’s too specific, too confining, having to do 3/4 options that are each very specific. No. For this new system to be functional, they need to either:
A. Vastly increase the amount of available achievements, instead of needing 3/4 it should be more like 3/6 or even 3/9 of these new options, giving you some flexibility to ignore more of the ones you might have zero interest in doing.
OR
B. Greatly expand the flexibility of each achievement. Instead of “Kill the Jungle Wurm,” make it “kill any World Boss.” Instead of “Harvest 4 plants in Maguuma Jungle,” make it “Harvest 20 things, anywhere you like.”
You have a choice.It is 3 out of 12.Before PvE had 6 PvP and WvW x2 each.Which was unbalanced.Now each category as x4 so it is much more equal.Now there are a lot more choices than before.Yes PvE dailies are changed a bit but the WvW and PvP are improved a lot.
Before i had to do 5 dailies for full reward and if you were a complitonist you had to do all the dailies.Now i have to do only 3 achievements for full 10AP.That is alot more than the previous daily AP reward.
Also by spliting the daily on 2(one reward for loging and another for the dailies is great),removing the 1AP per daily is a good decision.Because i don’t feel forced to farm to much.
Actually, before they had ones you are labeling as part of the PvE that could be completed in WvW and PvP, and this coming directly from Anet, so that you could complete your dailies in your chosen area. I do not remember the specific article, but I remember reading it one of the few times I read the release notes.
As far as the 1AP per daily, that left it up to you how many you felt like farming. The more work you put in, the more points you got.
1. We want to never be pushed outside our comfort zones. That’s the point.
2. We want to expend absolutely no additional effort in order to attain any daily achievements. They should come as a natural byproduct of what we happened to be doing anyway. That’s the point.
You know what would push us outside of our comfort zones?
- Win an Arena match in PvP
- Capture a keep in WvW
- Successfully defend 4 objectives times in WvW
- Fully complete a map (home cities and LA excluded)
- Obtain a Pristine Fractal Relic
- Obtain 100 dungeon tokens
- Successfully complete a Breach event in the Silverwastes
- Defeat the Skritt Queen in Dry Top
- Defeat Tequatl or the Great Jungle Wurm (even Karka Queen if enough QQ)
- Complete a personal story arc
- Craft an exotic or ascended quality armor, weapon, or trinket
This is how you push players out of their comfort zones. Not “Come to this specific area and collect your special snowflake medal for showing up”.
I wouldn’t mind any of these. I wouldn’t necessarily do all of them, but I would not mind if this is what the dailies consisted of. I doubt A.Net could pull that off though, especially the more time consuming ones. Just look at the outrage that’s going on in this thread, and they actually made dailies -easier-.
More hassle going to specific areas and/or gathering specific event completions and/or materials, when you could complete the dailies just by playing how you chose to play, but that is easier. Uhm…no.
Maybe it would help if people stopped comparing them to the OLD “Daily” system. It’s been removed. Taken out of the game. Anet would have been smart(er) to just say "We’re removing Dailies & Monthlies and replacing them with ’Login Bonuses and Random Achievements (that happen to reset on a daily basis) which reward players with Bonus Chests and a set amount of Achievement Points ’.
I don’t really see anyone complaining about the loss of the monthlies – even though THOSE came with more than just 10 Laurels – they also had up to 100 Achievement Points associated with them.
I’m sure there will be days when I look at the random set of daily achievements and go “Meh, I’ll skip the 10 AP today” – whereas in the past I’d feel more pressured to do them because of the Laurel. I do like those reward chests, though – especially the experience scrolls and the guaranteed rare item(s).
I know I’m glad to (hopefully) never have to do “Daily Reviver”, “Skill Interrupter”, or “Daily WvW Invasion Defender” ever again.
Just look at the outrage that’s going on in this thread, and they actually made dailies -easier-.
I think that’s why people are miffed. ANet went and made the things annoying and specifically trivial so the whole activity feels like a grind. Combined with the NPE, it just makes it look like the game is going in a backwards direction.
The dailies were never particularly challenging. They were always trivial, and far more grindy than they are now. If anything, they just took the grind out of it.
Uhm, I am going to have to go ahead and disagree with you on the whole grindy issue here. (Office Space flashbacks anyone?) Get the achievements that I got just from playing the game sounds a whole lot less grindy than galevant all over the map to do specific dailies. The people who chose to do more of them made the grindy part happen, or not, on their own choice. So now somehow forcing everyone into less choice is supposed to be seen as better.
I’m just going to sum up the ridiculous opposition here:
1. We don’t care that we’re getting rewarded more. That’s not the point.
2. We don’t care that it takes less time to get those greater rewards. That’s not the point.
3. We don’t care long-time marginalized groups benefit greatly from the changes (AP Hunters, PvPers, to a slightly lesser extent, WvWers). That’s not the point.So what’s the point?
1. We want to never be pushed outside our comfort zones. That’s the point.
2. We want to expend absolutely no additional effort in order to attain any daily achievements. They should come as a natural byproduct of what we happened to be doing anyway. That’s the point.
The point is that Anet gave us “Go to ‘insert map’ and do 4 events.” “Go to ‘insert map’ and view a vista.”
So tell me what’s wrong with the previous system? Why cant I do events at my current location. Why can’t I view that vista that’s just down the road.
My view on this new daily system is this:
Login rewards: Great, very nice.
3 dailies for 10 AP: Again, that’s great
Making me go to specific areas: Not so great.Honestly though, after thinking about it, it’s not that big of deal. Assuming Anet doesnt tweak (which is a VERY MINOR, simple tweak) the system in the future, we’ll all just simply adapt to it.
Your main qualm about the new system is that you maybe have to take a WP or an Asura gate or two…
Yea I’m just going to quote myself.
“2. We want to expend absolutely no additional effort in order to attain any daily achievements. They should come as a natural byproduct of what we happened to be doing anyway. That’s the point.”
Your godkitten right that’s my qualm. You ignored this though.
“So tell me what’s wrong with the previous system? Why cant I do events at my current location. Why can’t I view that vista that’s just down the road.”
That’s easy. The goal of the daily achievement system to expose players to different parts of the game. I imagine that’s the reason why they separated the laurels from it too, so that stubborn, whiny people who dislike anything new, different, or challenging would not find themselves terribly disadvantaged by more aggressive positioning of dailies.
That’s your answer? So you imagined? Everyone that is doing world completion is already going around different parts of the world. By default, we’re exposing ourselves to different areas just by playing the game.
Try again.
“So tell me what’s wrong with the previous system? Why cant I do events at my current location. Why can’t I view that vista that’s just down the road.”
It’s not the same thing. When you make an area a daily, you draw a population of players into that area. Caledon Forest, for example, is not the same experience when there’s numerous people running about, as compared to you being the only person you’ve seen in the last 10 minutes. By making the dailies, “Go here,” they’re able to create a more community active experience. This is especially true for the “Do X events in Y Area” achievements, where you’ll actually find people interacting, calling out in map chat when they’ve found an event.
Which they had as a part of the more options before this kittenup. Shiverpeaks events, Maguuma veteran kills, etc. They were already a part of the rotation, just not every day.
I am sure it was like that for some but Underwater kills, kill variety, laurel vendor visiting, event mentoring, reviving, and others were all things I stopped doing what I wanted in order to complete.
And if we kept the old dailys and simply gave everyone 10 AP for completing 5 of them, I suspect most of the QQ in this thread would be gone.
I would still have an issue with it as it devalues earned items and things doing stuff like this, but I would be a kittenload less vocal about it. Nerfing (as it is called) something too much is not good either, as it takes away the feeling of accomplishment others who already earned it got from it. Specific case in point, various titles in GW1.
I for one do not appreciate the efforts Anet has made to try to force me and others into other parts of the game, starting with, I believe, requiring the WvW maps to be done for 100% map completion.
Anet has made not one single effort to force you into anything. Ever.
Requiring the WvW maps as part of the world map completion, removing choices (twice now) from the dailies list. They call it encouraging people to try other parts of the game, I call it by the name it should be called by, attempted forcing. But technically you are correct, they are also not forcing me to play a game that I used to enjoy more, but less so now because they are repeatedly removing more and more choices.
Calling it attempted forcing is inaccurate. There is no amount of force involved. Zero. Offering a completely optional and unnecessary reward for doing something is not in any way a form of forcing one to do that something.
For me the new daily system increases the choices involved in my play time. I desire the rewards typically associated with dailies but have limited time to play. By instituting a new daily system that allows me to spend less time going out of my way to complete dailies ANet has provided me with more choices on how to spend my limited play time while still pursuing daily rewards.
I am decidedly unhappy with a number of the design decisions involved in GW2. This particular one works out for me for the most part. I don’t necessarily expect others to share my opinion on the matter but for people, or a person, to admit that their claims are incorrect and yet continue them is the sort of dishonesty that doesn’t do anyone any good in this sort of situation.
If one has to lie to support one’s position then the position may be without merit.
(edited by Ashen.2907)
what i dislike?well maybe dislike is a wrong word to say but i believe that the previous system was working fine.you could easily complete it really fast just by playing either pvp pve or wvw.
I thought the first daily system was okay after getting Karma Jugs appended to it. I was clearly mentally handicapped, because it kept getting tinkered with for the good of the players and I kept going “what the . . . why? It’s working . . .”
Can this be the last time the system gets overhauled? Pretty please?
Hopefully no, they need one more overhaul, and that is to put it back to how it worked before the kitten up just before this one. Where you got AP for ea daily item you completed, and if you completed more, you earned more.
I personally was using the dailies for my alts exp.
Now logging in every day for 28 days gets you 10 levels worth of tomes. I suspect you can pick even more tomes with the 28th day bonus.
I have my issues with this change, but experience for your alts should be the least of your worries.
If you take the tomes you lose laurels compared to before.
Also I was using the XP for low level alts/keyfarming, where 1 daily achievement gave more than on high level.
And concerning the AP, as you already stated 5 are better than none.
On the other sides laurels are easier to get now and also additional rewards from the new dailies.
In the end the change has also downsides for me and I ask myself if that dev-time wouldn´t have been better spent on something else.
Doing the achievements still gives the same amount of exp (5%) but now in a consumable form which is account bound. You can just save these, give ’em to your lowbie and level up like that.
And here lies the one mildly useful thing about this entire fiasco, but if that is the price to pay for having to live with the rest of it, I don’t want it. The cost to get that is just too high.
forces them to do things that are out of the way
But this is where the whole “New dailies are stupid!”-idea falls apart:
The rewards are given just from logging in now.You are even less forced to do anything you don’t want to do than you were before. You got your rewards, now play whatever mode you enjoy. Or, if you fall into the target category of what daily quests are for, do things you normally didn’t do for the dailies (that’s the whole point, get people to play more varied).
I agree ANet usually does the 1-step-forward-2-back, but this feels like 3-forward. It even fixes the issue the previous system had after they made it so that the same achievements came up most days, in that there was 0 variety and hence 0 point caring.
Except for those of us who were not hardcore but still achievement point seekers before, and IMO, this is 3-5 steps back and only half a step forwards. As far as getting people to try other things, there are better ways to do it. Cap the area (PvE, WvW, PvP) daily points at X, and award more if they go to another area and do more daily items from that pile. More choices, FOR EVERYBODY, and less bullkitten specific daily items from all parts of the game.
People see me as a PvE player which is fine, I am. But my points apply to every part of the game. Some people are only PvP players, and I am fine with that. You can still encourage people to try other parts of the game without choking the hell out of their choices in their chosen area, basically what amounts to punishing them for only wanting to play their chosen part.
I’m just going to sum up the ridiculous opposition here:
1. We don’t care that we’re getting rewarded more. That’s not the point.
2. We don’t care that it takes less time to get those greater rewards. That’s not the point.
3. We don’t care long-time marginalized groups benefit greatly from the changes (AP Hunters, PvPers, to a slightly lesser extent, WvWers). That’s not the point.So what’s the point?
1. We want to never be pushed outside our comfort zones. That’s the point.
2. We want to expend absolutely no additional effort in order to attain any daily achievements. They should come as a natural byproduct of what we happened to be doing anyway. That’s the point.
The point is that Anet gave us “Go to ‘insert map’ and do 4 events.” “Go to ‘insert map’ and view a vista.”
So tell me what’s wrong with the previous system? Why cant I do events at my current location. Why can’t I view that vista that’s just down the road.
My view on this new daily system is this:
Login rewards: Great, very nice.
3 dailies for 10 AP: Again, that’s great
Making me go to specific areas: Not so great.Honestly though, after thinking about it, it’s not that big of deal. Assuming Anet doesnt tweak (which is a VERY MINOR, simple tweak) the system in the future, we’ll all just simply adapt to it.
Your main qualm about the new system is that you maybe have to take a WP or an Asura gate or two…
Yea I’m just going to quote myself.
“2. We want to expend absolutely no additional effort in order to attain any daily achievements. They should come as a natural byproduct of what we happened to be doing anyway. That’s the point.”
Your godkitten right that’s my qualm. You ignored this though.
“So tell me what’s wrong with the previous system? Why cant I do events at my current location. Why can’t I view that vista that’s just down the road.”
That’s easy. The goal of the daily achievement system to expose players to different parts of the game. I imagine that’s the reason why they separated the laurels from it too, so that stubborn, whiny people who dislike anything new, different, or challenging would not find themselves terribly disadvantaged by more aggressive positioning of dailies.
There is an old adage that covers your reasoning fine here. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Or something like that, you get the concept, I hope.
You can encourage people to try other parts of the game with more options, not by choking out the available ones and by default, forcing them into other areas. This update is fail (for so many reasons besides this) for this reason alone.
Except for those of us who were not hardcore but still achievement point seekers before, and IMO, this is 3-5 steps back and only half a step forwards. As far as getting people to try other things, there are better ways to do it. Cap the area (PvE, WvW, PvP) daily points at X, and award more if they go to another area and do more daily items from that pile. More choices, FOR EVERYBODY, and less bullkitten specific daily items from all parts of the game.
The entire point is that they’re specific. Seriously. Change that and you remove the whole point, might as well remove the implementation entirely then. Incidentally, you’re back to the previous system then, which did not do what the devs wanted dailies to do, period.
Now you might argue "Yes, it didn’t, but it still gave me 10 AP a day for minimum brain activity. Fair enough, but if 10 AP a day motivate you then I really feel it ought to be easy enough to find an alternative means of getting you motivated.
You can encourage people to try other parts of the game with more options, not by choking out the available ones and by default, forcing them into other areas. This update is fail (for so many reasons besides this) for this reason alone.
We had more options before. It didn’t work.
What do you make of that? :P
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
Keep in mind everyone, that one of the WvW dailies doesn’t require you to fight players at all. Most achievement hunters have some badges of honor hanging around.
Go into WvW, you’re perfectly safe in your base, and spend a few laurels. Takes a minutes. Then you only need 2 dailies.
Except those people who (for whatever reason) choose to not do WvW, and are not less of a person or player than anybody else for not wanting to.
All except newer players should have some Badges of Honor unless you spent them all. The AP chests have Badges of Honor in them.
Doesn’t require any real playing of WvW to do so.
Not talking about any real playing, talking about not even going there at all, which even if they did get some WvW badges from PvE rewards still negates having to go to WvW to spend them, unless there is another way I am not aware of.
Then I honestly have no sympathy for you if you’re not willing to hop over to WvW to buy something worth 25 badges of honor and instead choose to do the daily option which you knew beforehand would take you a few hours to do. What else are you going to spend them on? You obviously don’t do fractals often so the Ascended gear you can with them is useless as you likely have what you need for the levels you do (you’ve obviously done them 11 times at least given what I heard in chat in game). I highly doubt dungeons as well so you wouldn’t get the boost there to add to your DPS contribution. So I don’t see why the aversion to spending the Badges of Honor and then deleting the thing you bought or consuming it if it’s a consumable.
It requires absolutely 0 amount of actually doing WvW. And I can see why you wouldn’t want to do the others as they involve actually playing. WvW isn’t everyone’s cup of tea. But spending Badges of Honor you’d otherwise never spend isn’t something that can be excused with the same excuse.
You chose to not do the quick ones and put yourself into the situation where it took you 3 hours to do the Daily.
It still requires someone to go to WvW, which is more WvW than some people care to do. And your reasoning is the same lame argument as before, basically amounts to “shut up and do it” and that somehow people who choose the parts of the game they want to play should be made to feel like less of a player because it is different than you.
And thank you for making our point for us, it was their choice to make for themselves. If they did the quick ones that took 10 seconds or 2 hours, it was THEIR CHOICE.
Can you honestly tell me that you were unaware of how long the Fractals one would take before you did it? That it would be much longer than the other PvE/non-combative WvW options available?
I highly doubt that you didn’t know. And I honestly can’t fathom why you would choose the choice that would have you do something you hate for the longest time of the options.
Silverwastes events probably could be done in like 10 minutes if even that long.
WvW spender would take 5 minutes tops, a lot less if you found the vender right away.
Yet you chose Fractals. And when I ran with my friends last it took us on average 1 hour and 30 minutes to do all four fractals.
And yes, you’re going to have to suck it up and learn to just do the dailies if you want the AP from them. I highly doubt ANet will do a complete reversal of this system too quickly. They do appear to like to make drastic changes to the system so wait it out and it will likely eventually change drastically again.
There’s nothing else to suggest if you want the AP from the dailies for as long as they are like this.
~~~
I do however understand why you’re upset about the changes. And I do sympathize that you do have to do content you dislike to get the AP you want. I doubt that’s ANet’s intent with the system to make players do content they hate for the Daily.
It might do you some good to take a step back and try to understand why people like the changes. Even if you don’t fall under the same reasoning. And then make that clear in your posts that you do understand. Because if you do understand, it’s not coming across very well that you do.
So what happened to being able to do the daily while playing the way we want? At least that was what you had posted before as goal for the daily. Now it clearly changed to playing the way you want us to play… not a good change.
I feel like I should put it out there that if you feel as though you are being forced to do dailies, you may want to seek professional medical help as that is a sign of addiction, and that can ruin your life.
I want to be able to continue to play this game with you, and that can’t happen if your life spirals into the disease that is addiction.
I don’t feel that I am being forced to do dailies. In fact, given this last adjustment to them, I feel I am being strongly encouraged to NOT do them, at least not until they become reasonable again. What I DO feel forced to do is try other parts of the game that I have no interest in. I play a game for enjoyment, because I like to do it or not, as I choose, not to have the makers of the game try to tell me, well, you should go here, you should go there, and to (sorry, I still can’t even type this with a straight face) encourage you to do so, they take away more and more options from you.
So what happened to being able to do the daily while playing the way we want? At least that was what you had posted before as goal for the daily. Now it clearly changed to playing the way you want us to play… not a good change.
The point of dailies…
http://www.forbes.com/sites/carolpinchefsky/2013/03/12/has-guild-wars-2-become-too-complicated/
I spoke on the telephone with Isaiah Cartwright, GW2’s lead designer, about the dungeons and currencies, and most recently, the addition of the guild system.
Q:There have also been changes to the daily system. Before, you had to complete a set number of tasks in a day (completed dynamic events, plants gathered, etc). What’s changed?
A: We give you an option of like eight to ten [goals, such as killing enemies underwater or reviving other players and NPCs], and you get to pick five that you want to accomplish. So if you don’t like doing dungeons, you don’t have to choose it.
It only takes twenty to thirty minutes to accomplish these things, and it gives people a taste of different types of content. We try to kind of mix it up to encourage players to go to different maps and try different things out. We feel our system is the most robust one.
According to that quote dailies were supposed to get you to go to different maps and try different things, not to provide additional rewards for just doing what you were going to do anyway.
Do you have a link or quote to support your claim ?
I like the new dailies.
They give me an incentive to break my routines. I have a habit of just playing the same couple of things every day, and that leads to tedium and boredom. And while it’s of my own making, it is one of the things that makes me take breaks from the game. The new dailies give me a reason to do things a bit different, to visit places I haven’t been in a while, or level a character I’ve neglected, or if I really want to get it done and not do those things, jump in PvP for a bit (something I rarely do, but enjoy occasionally when I have a reason to do it).
So, I don’t know who these changes are meant to target, but they hit me dead on and will just make me less likely to find a reason not to play the game.
Plus, I like the rewards quite a bit. They seem pretty well thought out and well done.
Way I feel right now is…
I need 12 skill points to get my monthly. I have a character slot, a birthday level 20 scroll and 6 Tomes of Experience.
I’m thinking of dropping in, blasting them all on a new character, and logging back out, then only collecting my daily log in reward until they make improvements to this game.
I already quit once and returned to do LS2 5-7 in the hope I would want to play again. I don’t.
According to that quote dailies were supposed to get you to go to different maps and try different things, not to provide additional rewards for just doing what you were going to do anyway.
Do you have a link or quote to support your claim ?
So the 2 recent years and the latest half a year with extensive daily options introduced after many threads and which made people happy do not count as an argument anymore?
20 level 80s and counting.
I have to say I feel as though I wasted money buying this game. I used to enjoy doing Dailies. I find it total BS having to run all over to do stuff. I feel put off by the whole idea of being Made to do this crap the way it is now. Maybe A-Net will get a clue here but I really doubt it. Stupid way to go but then all they care about is making a buck. Shame they made fools out of themselves.
So the 2 recent years and the latest half a year with extensive daily options introduced after many threads and which made people happy do not count as an argument anymore?
There were no “extensive daily options”. It was rather the opposite.
Originally the old daily system (let’s call it version 1) could roll a rather random selection of rather specific things. Like Ascalon Killer, but no Daily Kills, two dailies from the current monthly festival, Kryta Event Completer on top of that, etc.
Then the devs realized that they made a mistake. Dailies awarded a very necessary currency (laurels). But the dailies themselves were very specific, and so players had to go out of their way to get the laurels. While the effect (players going out of their way) was what dailies were meant to do, now it felt forced. Which wasn’t ever the intention.
So they changed it, and “sanded off” the dailies. They locked most of the selection so that only 4 dailies each day could vary, and even those largely varied between a handful of possibilities which all were extremely generic.
Problem partially solved. Now players were no longer forced to do something for laurels (as they more or less got the daily meta just from playing), but in the process dailies no longer did what they were implemented for. That was version 2.
Now we’re at version 3. The laurels, the one required currency, have been moved out of the daily quests, fixing that issue. At the same time the dailies themselves have been rolled back to a system like, but more so, version 1, being very specific and very random, wanting you to go out of your way to do stuff.
Only unlike version 1, the critical flaw of being a requirement no longer exists so players who don’t want a system to do that can simply ignore it safely at no cost to themselves.
That’s what happened.
The past implementation (which ran for ~1 years btw, if memory serves – not 2,5 years :P ) didn’t work. It fixed one issue of version 1, but also removed the entire point of why we got dailies in the first place. Now version 3 brings that point back into the game while also alleviating the issue the first version had.
And even the AP hunters cannot complain. Why?
Because while getting the daily meta was nearly automatic in version 2, getting 10-12 AP was quite the grind. You didn’t get that just from picking your nose in LA at all. It cost a lot of time.
While the new dailies are awfully specific, they’re also very small. Getting 3 of a type is a matter of 10-20 minutes, even if you go for the WvW ones. That’s a lot less time than getting 10 AP in the old system took.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
I have to say I’m enjoying the new system so far. Now whether that continues or not time will tell. Here are the reasons why I’m currently enjoying it -
- More freedom. I now don’t have to do my dailies to get the laurels/mystic coins I need if I don’t want to. If I decide that the things on the list are beneficial to me and not massively out of my way then I don’t mind hopping into Kryta to chop down a few trees or getting a Vista in Ascalon that I don’t have yet.
- Nifty rewards. If I do decide that 4 events in Silverwastes (or wherever) is worth my time then I get some nifty little rewards. Are they amazing? Nope. Are they fun? Yeah I think so.
- As someone who plays PvE, WvW and sPvP it’s great because when I login and realise that tonight the guild is raiding in WvW I don’t have to rush around trying to bang out some PvE dailies so that I can finish them off in WvW. I simply hop into WvW with the WvW achievements selected and away I go!
So at the moment it’s a good change but I’ll reserve full judgement on the system until I’ve had a month or so to experience it.
[BAD] a casual PvE guild on Aurora Glade.
http://bad-eu.guildlaunch.com
The Family Deuce. Asuran Adventure Specialists.
http://bad-eu.guildlaunch.com
The Family Deuce. Asuran Adventure Specialists.
what i dislike?well maybe dislike is a wrong word to say but i believe that the previous system was working fine.you could easily complete it really fast just by playing either pvp pve or wvw.
I thought the first daily system was okay after getting Karma Jugs appended to it. I was clearly mentally handicapped, because it kept getting tinkered with for the good of the players and I kept going “what the . . . why? It’s working . . .”
Can this be the last time the system gets overhauled? Pretty please?
Hopefully no, they need one more overhaul, and that is to put it back to how it worked before the kitten up just before this one. Where you got AP for ea daily item you completed, and if you completed more, you earned more.
And then we’ll be back here in six months about how the dailies force you to do stuff you don’t want to do. Again. As has been happening since day one.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
I’m somewhat ambivalent about the changes to the dailies.
My biggest gripe is the same as many others: we need more, NOT FEWER, options to satisfy dailies. And that applies to all three main segments of gameplay. I don’t indulge in PvP at all outside a smattering of WvW, and being functionally restricted to just four PvE options on a given day—some of which I don’t care to do because I’ve already decided for myself—is very annoying.
One of the most irritating issues I have, though, is this business with having a single world boss as a daily option. Oh, it definitely brings people together, but to say it engenders a greater sense of community is patently absurd. A zerg does not equal community. Instead, it severely ramps up lag (even at 2AM on a weekday) and increases the incidences of crash outs (which was my case today for the first time in months).
Please consider making this sort of daily an option to participate in one of a subset of boss events across the world. A subset that covers multiple zone level ranges so even new players have a decent chance to get to at least one of them. This will still increase the number of players in each of the events, but because only one of the subset is required for the daily, it won’t create nearly the same enormous deluge of players all converging on the same place at the same time we now have because we’ve only been given ONE option.
what i dislike?well maybe dislike is a wrong word to say but i believe that the previous system was working fine.you could easily complete it really fast just by playing either pvp pve or wvw.
I thought the first daily system was okay after getting Karma Jugs appended to it. I was clearly mentally handicapped, because it kept getting tinkered with for the good of the players and I kept going “what the . . . why? It’s working . . .”
Can this be the last time the system gets overhauled? Pretty please?
Hopefully no, they need one more overhaul, and that is to put it back to how it worked before the kitten up just before this one. Where you got AP for ea daily item you completed, and if you completed more, you earned more.
And then we’ll be back here in six months about how the dailies force you to do stuff you don’t want to do. Again. As has been happening since day one.
where is this magical contract that you signed that forces you to do a daily?
Everyone arguing this is missing the point why Arenanet did this.
They did it so YOU DON’T HAVE TO DO YOUR DAILY IF YOU DON’T WANT TO.
You get your laurels just for logging in.
If you don’t like your daily category selection…. don’t do your daily.
Simple as that.
The only thing you are going to miss out on is 10 ap if you choose not to do your daily.
The total AP you can get for doing dailies has a cap…. and if you are still below the cap… you obviously don’t care enough about AP to begin with.
what is the point of all this qq?
snip
what is the point of all this qq?
After 14 pages no one knows anymore…
[BAD] a casual PvE guild on Aurora Glade.
http://bad-eu.guildlaunch.com
The Family Deuce. Asuran Adventure Specialists.
http://bad-eu.guildlaunch.com
The Family Deuce. Asuran Adventure Specialists.
(edited by AdaephonDelat.3890)
I have to say I feel as though I wasted money buying this game. I used to enjoy doing Dailies. I find it total BS having to run all over to do stuff. I feel put off by the whole idea of being Made to do this crap the way it is now. Maybe A-Net will get a clue here but I really doubt it. Stupid way to go but then all they care about is making a buck. Shame they made fools out of themselves.
If you’re only playing this game for doing dailies, so much so that you feel you wasted money buying the game, then it’s likely you just don’t like the game. The whole point here is that the game is more than just dailies. The focus on dailies is probably what Anet wants to get away from.
I’m not really sure how dailies themselves can be such a big deal that they make you feel you wasted money. More likely you don’t like many aspects of the game and you’re piling them all on top of dailies.
According to that quote dailies were supposed to get you to go to different maps and try different things, not to provide additional rewards for just doing what you were going to do anyway.
I find that design decision somewhat “insulting”. It’s like “we know what is best for you, you REALLY should try out this game mode and that game feature, and we will remind you of it every day, because we are sure you will REALLY like it !”
There is a reason why I do not play PvP and why I never do fractals or dungeons: I know that I do not like them. I do not need to try these things out all the time to see if I changed my mind in the meantime.
So I would fully support a daily system with enough (5-6) options in each area (pve, pvp, wvw) so that you can complete the dailies within only one game mode and STILL have enough options available. But deliberately designing the dailies so that you have to “explore other game modes” as soon as there are one or two options within your preferred mode which you do not enjoy or simply cannot do (e.g. fractals) – that sucks.
And then we’ll be back here in six months about how the dailies force you to do stuff you don’t want to do. Again. As has been happening since day one.
where is this magical contract that you signed that forces you to do a daily?
You must be not reading my posts here – I’m not saying I’m forced to do them. I barely worried about doing them back when I was stashing Jugs of Karma two years back. (When “forced to do them” may have had some weight since you could get your temple Exotics just through roughly one and a half to two months of daily activities. Since that was the easiest way to gear your armor, aside from crafting. . . )
I did them because they were there, for the most part.
But ever since the start of the game, I’ve seen comments about the dailies . . . about being forced into doing them, even when the rewards didn’t include Karma and it was a fixed list of simple things to do. At this point, I just start giggling when I see “forced” and “daily achievements” in the same context.
You get your laurels just for logging in.
Well, some of the days.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
According to that quote dailies were supposed to get you to go to different maps and try different things, not to provide additional rewards for just doing what you were going to do anyway.
I find that design decision somewhat “insulting”. It’s like “we know what is best for you, you REALLY should try out this game mode and that game feature, and we will remind you of it every day, because we are sure you will REALLY like it !”
I, too, find it insulting when I go to a renaissance fair and people keep trying to get me to go to shows I have no interest in.
Of course, then I just don’t go and wind up in front of the pub singers again for another round of really filthy limericks.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
Today’s daily was better than the previous days. 3 of the 4 pve dailies were easy enough to get for everyone. If you didn’t have the time (or proper timing) to get Maw you had 3 other options that you could do in real time.
I’m not sure if brand new players had a problem getting “iron marches event completer”. I heard you get different dailies depending on your highest level character. I can’t confirm that because my toons are all 80.
However, if they keep it this way I rescind my former objections to the new system. I just don’t want to see the following:
1) a need to camp out bosses
2) a requirement for new players to get to an unobtainable level.
3) Forcing PVE players into game modes they don’t normally want to play.
Today’s daily was better than the previous days. 3 of the 4 pve dailies were easy enough to get for everyone. If you didn’t have the time (or proper timing) to get Maw you had 3 other options that you could do in real time.
I’m not sure if brand new players had a problem getting “iron marches event completer”. I heard you get different dailies depending on your highest level character. I can’t confirm that because my toons are all 80.
However, if they keep it this way I rescind my former objections to the new system. I just don’t want to see the following:
1) a need to camp out bosses
2) a requirement for new players to get to an unobtainable level.
3) Forcing PVE players into game modes they don’t normally want to play.
With regards to point 2 this is from the patch notes -
“The number of available achievements per day is based on the highest-level character on an account:
Levels 1–10: 1 achievement per category
Levels 11–30: 3 achievements per category
Levels 31–80: 4 achievements per category”
I believe someone put up a screenshot from a low level account that didn’t have the silverwastes achievement listed as available, but I’ll be kittened if I can find the darned thing.
[BAD] a casual PvE guild on Aurora Glade.
http://bad-eu.guildlaunch.com
The Family Deuce. Asuran Adventure Specialists.
http://bad-eu.guildlaunch.com
The Family Deuce. Asuran Adventure Specialists.
I find that design decision somewhat “insulting”. It’s like “we know what is best for you, you REALLY should try out this game mode and that game feature, and we will remind you of it every day, because we are sure you will REALLY like it !”
No, the design intent is to entice players to try it out. Because most players never ever actually do that. And if a little teensy extra reward is enough to get you to try it, well, here it is.
That being said, the game consists of all of it. It’s not marketed to just a specific subgroup, otherwise sPvP, WvW and PvE would have released as three fully separate games.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
snip
what is the point of all this qq?After 14 pages no one knows anymore…
Mostly, PvE-only players complaining about that the new Daily system has fewer choices (for them) for completing the Daily AP reward.
Mostly, PvE-only players asking for more or less specific Daily choices to complete the Daily AP reward.
snip
what is the point of all this qq?After 14 pages no one knows anymore…
i find very little reason behind the whining on this particular issue.. i like the new system, but even if i didn’t, there’s still the crucial matter of “it’s good for the game” so it’s disappointing to see so much criticism
Huge fan of the new dailies. I can get my 10 AP in literally 8-10min now. I don’t see how people have a problem with this. If you choose to do more of the daily categories then more power to you, but for those of us that sought to complete every category strictly for AP, this is a godsend.
I won’t stop because I can’t stop.
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
snip
what is the point of all this qq?After 14 pages no one knows anymore…
Mostly, PvE-only players complaining about that the new Daily system has fewer choices (for them) for completing the Daily AP reward.
Mostly, PvE-only players asking for more or less specific Daily choices to complete the Daily AP reward.
Yeah I know, I was just being facetious. But it does kinda seem like no one knows. People are arguing about the lack of diversity but neglecting the fact that it’s no longer necessary to do as the main reason to do dailies was to get the shiny. Unless they were using them as a checklist of things to do in the game at which point you now have a slightly shorter checklist. For people complaining about the lack of EXP boost you still get the EXP just now in a consumable format which you can give to any character.
Also people seem to be complaining about being forced into playing WvW/PvP but I fail to see how. Surely if they wanted to get 10 AP in the old system they were forced to play WvW/PvP and if they didn’t want the full 10 AP then they’re better off with this new system (assuming they do the dailies) as they get the 10 AP for just playing PvE.
As far as I can tell all it boils down to is – “I’ve got into a set routine of doing menial tasks and now they’ve been replaced them with some other menial tasks but these tasks are different and disrupt my routine so I don’t like it!”
[BAD] a casual PvE guild on Aurora Glade.
http://bad-eu.guildlaunch.com
The Family Deuce. Asuran Adventure Specialists.
http://bad-eu.guildlaunch.com
The Family Deuce. Asuran Adventure Specialists.
People are arguing about the lack of diversity but neglecting the fact that it’s no longer necessary to do as the main reason to do dailies was to get the shiny.
Why do you people keep forgetting about 5-6-8 AP (and experience) we got naturally playing the game, which is now nerfed because we have to do specific stuff to get any AP? Because it is a valid and important, thus inconvenient, argument, is that why?
20 level 80s and counting.
People are arguing about the lack of diversity but neglecting the fact that it’s no longer necessary to do as the main reason to do dailies was to get the shiny.
Why do you people keep forgetting about 5-6-8 AP (and experience) we got naturally playing the game, which is now nerfed because we have to do specific stuff to get any AP? Because it is a valid and important, thus inconvenient, argument, is that why?
Actually I just missed that argument. But as you can see by Draknar’s post above mine that at least some AP hunters seem to enjoy the fact that they can get the full 10 AP in less time than it used to take thus allowing them to go out and enjoy the rest of their time doing other things.
Also if you think very, very carefully you can still get those 10 AP by playing the game. Example I’m levelling a Thief at the moment. Going with yesterday’s dailies I can do some map completion (in Ascalon and Kryta thus knocking out Vista Viewer and Krytan Logger). Can I take him to Silverwastes? No but I can give him the XP. Can I take him into Fractals? Yes (just not levels 11-20). Hmm so those two are out. Oh! I know I’ll quickly jump into WvW buy a couple of blueprints (and sell them on the TP for naff all) with all the badges I’ve accumulated from AP chests and bam I’m done. Depending on your machine (mine’s quite bad) it takes you 3 minutes out of your way and puts you right back where you were!
I also commented that you still get the experience just now in consumable form. Which means I can do all the dailies on a level 80 and give them to my Thief for him to get the XP. So there that issue’s solved for you as well now.
Of course the other solution is if you hate the change this much – give me all your stuff, log off and uninstall the game. Problem solved!
[BAD] a casual PvE guild on Aurora Glade.
http://bad-eu.guildlaunch.com
The Family Deuce. Asuran Adventure Specialists.
http://bad-eu.guildlaunch.com
The Family Deuce. Asuran Adventure Specialists.
Today’s daily was better than the previous days. 3 of the 4 pve dailies were easy enough to get for everyone. If you didn’t have the time (or proper timing) to get Maw you had 3 other options that you could do in real time.
I’m not sure if brand new players had a problem getting “iron marches event completer”. I heard you get different dailies depending on your highest level character. I can’t confirm that because my toons are all 80.
However, if they keep it this way I rescind my former objections to the new system. I just don’t want to see the following:
1) a need to camp out bosses
2) a requirement for new players to get to an unobtainable level.
3) Forcing PVE players into game modes they don’t normally want to play.
With regards to point 2 this is from the patch notes -
“The number of available achievements per day is based on the highest-level character on an account:
Levels 1–10: 1 achievement per category
Levels 11–30: 3 achievements per category
Levels 31–80: 4 achievements per category”I believe someone put up a screenshot from a low level account that didn’t have the silverwastes achievement listed as available, but I’ll be kittened if I can find the darned thing.
Well then, if they keep doing what they did with today’s daily then I rescind my objection.
People are arguing about the lack of diversity but neglecting the fact that it’s no longer necessary to do as the main reason to do dailies was to get the shiny.
Why do you people keep forgetting about 5-6-8 AP (and experience) we got naturally playing the game, which is now nerfed because we have to do specific stuff to get any AP? Because it is a valid and important, thus inconvenient, argument, is that why?
We’ve had specific dailies before, it’s not like this is new.
As for the AP, I don’t really care. I don’t actively hunt AP. Oh sure, when I notice that I’m 50 to 100 points away from my next chest, I’ll go looking for AP, but that’s the only time I actively AP hunt.
Regarding experience even if you absolutely ignore the dailies, the daily log in reward for the “6th day” of each “week” is a ‘Bag of Experience’ so that hasn’t disappeared either.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.