Guild Wars 2

The choices seem…forced. These new PVE dailies take people out of their regular routines and forces them to go to places they probably hadn’t planned on that day. The WvW ones, on the other hand, you can get through normal WvW play. Not sure of the PvP ones.

But it’s definitely the PVE ones that are problematic. For instance, I am in the middle of trying to get mats for an attempt at a legendary. May not end up doing it, based on the drop table for the things I need, but will try. Except when I log in, and I like to do dailies, I have to port around to areas that give me nothing I need mat-wise. It doesn’t take long, but it is jarring.

Vayne.8563:

khani.4786:

Vayne.8563:

khani.4786:

Vayne.8563:

I got them in WvW, and later did the Fractal ones as well, but I agree. I don’t think there should be two dailies that require people to group. Not everyone will do group content, and some of those people will feel disenfranchised.

Actually today I got every daily except the event one.

You don’t need to group to do the “Daily Fractal” (the full set one “Daily 1-10”, sure yeah a group would be best).

Roll underwater. Kill a few krait. Swim thru a tunnel. Kite a Jellyfish into some electricity while shooting it. That one is easy solo.

It’s not easy to solo for many people, if not most people. Having soloed it myself, I know it can be done, but such a huge percentage of the playerbase has no clue how to do stuff like that, have never done a fractal before, and probably couldn’t solo it without a whole lot more practice than they’d probably have playing time.

That’s true. I guess I’ve just been playing so long that for me, it just feel silly easy to do lots of things. I can’t solo dungeons, but I can solo a few of the fractals. Just seems like a lot of complaining and not a lot of willingness to at least try here.

It has to do with comfort zone and enjoyment. Different people enjoy different things. I don’t really enjoy running dungeons. I can run them. I’ve run every dungeon in this game multiple times. I have no problem running any dungeon, including Arah path 4.

But when I get a dungeon daily, in the old system, I never had to do it and often didn’t. Because this is a game and I want to play what I enjoy.

Now a person who doesn’t enjoy instanced content, and doesn’t enjoy PvP is being forced to do stuff they don’t want to do if they want that daily. That’s the complaint here.

Yes, you should have to do something to get a daily. But you shouldn’t have to do something you really don’t enjoy doing. Otherwise, why play?

Agreed. The people that say, “Hey! You only have to do any 3. It’s easy” are correct to a certain extent. The changes to me would be better if the choices were what we used to have. I used to be able to get my entire daily done by doing fractals. Having a daily be a certain fractal level though when the choices are so limited now? That’s bad design.

I love PvP as well, but making us play certain professions is awful.

The dailies are quicker and more rewarding now, but for me that isn’t the point. They aren’t as enjoyable because a lot of the time I have to do things I don’t want to do.

As much as I like and have liked the new changes, I think 2 fractal dailies are a little bit much. Please give us better choices. Otherwise I like the new system and rewards. Luckily I don’t mind doing some WvW so I can get it done when the PVE choices are restrictive.

Krestfallen.8025:

Like many people, I’m here to grouse about today’s PvE daily options. I don’t like doing fractals. I don’t find them fun, and I don’t want to do them.

And before anyone says anything about anything, I have played the kitten out of fractals. I have every fractal achievement, got every fractal achievement during the fractured update, and my fractal frequenter is sitting at 446/500. So yes, I have played fractals, given them a chance, and decided that they aren’t fun for me.

And that’s my problem with the new system. Before I could get dailies doing
whatever content I felt like at the time: some days I hung out in Dry Top, other days I got them done in dungeons— half the time without even trying! But it was always possible to do them in a playstyle/area that I felt like enjoying on that particular day.

But the new system (and by extension Anet) doesn’t give a flying kitten about what I enjoy. It doesn’t care wether or not I’ve tried that content before, how many hours I gave it to make an impression on me, or what individual decision I came to as a grown kitten adult about wether or not I enjoyed that content (and that includes WvW and PvP too, not just fractals). It just doesn’t care.

Let’s all just be completely honest here: yeah, the PvPers and WvWers were well serviced by the change (and I’m genuinely glad for them), but that was just blind luck. Anet still doesn’t give a kitten. This isn’t about fun or innovative gameplay. This whole bloody boondogle is about those god kitten ed metrics that Anet keeps obsessing over. I mean holy hell, the fact that the bulk of the rewards are given just for logging in is proof of that. Since when the kitten is typing in my username and password “innovative gameplay”?

All this, and I mean all this, is just so that Anet can go into meetings with investers and CEOs and journalists and whatever and kitten over artificially inflated numbers. “See! See! Look at how many concurrent users we have! See! See! Look at how many more players are entering World versus World! See! See! Look at how succesful we are!”

Look, wether you like the new system or you hate it, wether it’s quicker and more convenient for you or a tediuos waste of your time, wether it gave you more options or took them away from you, we should all be disappointed. Disappointed and disgusted that Anet would rather sink time and resources into this gimmick of a system rather than create and/or refine content that’s genuinely compelling in its own right.

I say we all Boycott the Dailies in a show of protest. That will show TRUE STATS for their board of directors!

Vayne.8563:

@munkiman

The problem is you’re assuming everyone has the problems you have or you’ve noticed, when I don’t think most people do. I don’t think most players know or see those bugs. In fact, I’m sure of it.

To you fixing those bugs is more important because you know they’re there. Most people don’t. Most people have no clue. A biggest percentage of players in this game barely notice the bugs you do and write them off when they do as no big deal.

You’re talking about putting lipstick on a pig, but not everyone sees this game as a pig in the first place.

You say you study gaming design as a hobby. Most people don’t even know what the word meta means.

You don’t have to be into studying game design to get frustrated playing a game. You’re absolutely right, players don’t need an excuse to dislike playing the game, they just do and move on. They may not even be able to pin-point what exactly they don’t care for. It’s up to the design team to read between the lines in many cases, some of which they end up getting entirely wrong, for a plethora of reasons.

While this thread or the many other complaint threads may not be about the core systems directly, those things are fundamental to how players experience your game. When you add stuff like “go do 10 jumping puzzles and we’ll give you something cool” and your camera system makes even the people that enjoy them frustrated, you have a problem.

The pig thing was just a saying, i wasn’t trying to say the game is a pig. It was specifically pointing to the basics, you have some pretty chunky flaws in your systems, yet you keep doing things to highlight those flaws. Handing out goods just to login doesn’t change that. SAB, was a pretty decently designed platforming mini game, which seemed to be created around the flaws of the camera system, not everywhere, mind you, but for the most part, it was less confined, same with wintersday puzzle. I realize, it’s most likely a huge undertaking to fix, but it’s also not something that hasn’t been high lit over the past 2.5 years either. So revamping things like the trait system, the dailies, the NPE, are mostly filler that don’t address core problems. It doesn’t matter who does it either, someone working on LW could have a fresh perspective on overcoming some of the challenges, but they can’t since they are spending their energies on LW, as an example.

I personally believe Arena is extremely afraid that big changes might actually break their game, but in turn, some of the big changes are actually needed. Not only to retain players, but should be marketed to attract old players to return and fresh new players to find it exciting as well.

xfer.1789:

tacticalevilnoodlefox.5694:

However not everyone is that skilled. My mother plays the game with me sometimes and she would never be able to solo a fractal no matter how easy it may seem to others. And like me WvW makes her uncomfortable (and again I don’t play a game to be uncomfortable I play to enjoy myself).

I really don’t think your mother is concerned by +10 AP in her account every day. So, doing 2 out of 4 items in her daily and receiving something for doing it is far better than the previous system, when you had to complete more items to receive a laurel + mystic coin.

Because you know my mom better then me amrite? No she didn’t care about 10 AP in the sense she was a hunter but it was nice for her to feel like there was something she was accomplishing IG. It was nice for her to feel like she was achieving something where most other achievements were out of her reach. Being able to complete more dailies, not less, services that role far better then rewards she won’t ever use. Again why is it so terrible an idea that dailies be accessible to more people inside the new system?

Well I hope ANet’s plan is coming off as intended. After 2 years I now just log in and log back out. As for today’s dailies, it is the perfect example of why I am now not even actually playing this game. Fractal, plus fractal as PvE daily.

Well done ANet. I have finally moved on, so my husband thanks you.

tacticalevilnoodlefox.5694:

xfer.1789:

tacticalevilnoodlefox.5694:

However not everyone is that skilled. My mother plays the game with me sometimes and she would never be able to solo a fractal no matter how easy it may seem to others. And like me WvW makes her uncomfortable (and again I don’t play a game to be uncomfortable I play to enjoy myself).

I really don’t think your mother is concerned by +10 AP in her account every day. So, doing 2 out of 4 items in her daily and receiving something for doing it is far better than the previous system, when you had to complete more items to receive a laurel + mystic coin.

Because you know my mom better then me amrite? No she didn’t care about 10 AP in the sense she was a hunter but it was nice for her to feel like there was something she was accomplishing IG. It was nice for her to feel like she was achieving something where most other achievements were out of her reach. Being able to complete more dailies, not less, services that role far better then rewards she won’t ever use. Again why is it so terrible an idea that dailies be accessible to more people inside the new system?

Just because someone doesn’t participate in all aspects of the game doesn’t mean they aren’t concerned with AP points. I may be even more in need of those daily AP points than those who have no trouble with fractals, pvp or wvw.

I am not the mother in question but Tactical could have just as well be talking about me. We need more choices for our 3 dailies. I don’t pvp or wvw so I don’t have 12 options to choose from, only the 4.

I just hope they are reading this thread all these days later.

re: Just accept it. ANet wants people to play fractals. – Why? I dislike them, and I won’t do them. Or anything else that I dislike in this game which is for fun and entertainment. In real life we all have to do things that we don’t want to do. We have to do things that are difficult, and no fun at all. But that’s life, this is a game. The less fun(to me) options I have, the less I play. And that pool of options has been steadily shrinking, without Anet even giving us a reason why. There are a few things in this game that are worth putting some time and effort into. I can grind for Ascended mats without having to do anything really unpleasant. And it’s nice to have a challenging fight that involves strategy instead of stupid, gimmicky tricks. So no, I’m not asking for everything to be easy. But I would like everything to be fun, or at least worth the effort. Anet doesn’t seem to understand that. So please don’t play that really tired “it’s optional” card. That is simply not a valid argument. Games are for fun and entertainment. People who don’t find a game fun and entertaining will stop playing. And the GW2 player base needs to grow, or at least not shrink.

re: the new dailies are more challenging – No, they’re more tedious. Many of them are exactly the same, except more specific.(Instead of gather 20 items, gather 10 specific items from a specific map) And I’ve never played PvP, but “Win as a <certain class>” has got to be no fun for PvP players when <certain class> is not one that they like to play, or that they even have. So everyone please refrain from justifying the new dailies as “more challenging”, it simply isn’t true.

I had tried adventuring on my own due to the new limitation of one specific-zone for events—and observed an effect.

Whereas in the past I come in the game and felt I was in a living, vibrant world where people would be helping in dynamic events, rezzing NPCs, giving a feeling of a true fantasy world, which I enjoyed as a game. Now I’m traveling in many zones with very few people there. Even the few people there run right past dynamic events. No one is rezzing.

It dawned on me that by choosing one specific zone for the daily events, the game has effectively killed maybe 97% of its zones.

I love the GW2 zones. It used to be fun wandering around all kinds of zones. Now? Even though I myself chose to ignore the daily, the world is no longer the same. As I attempt to solo in these zones, it felt like the game died. The first thought that occurred to me was: ANet had spent a lot of money developing beautiful zones. What a stroke of move to send all that money to waste. The move to specific zones just killed all the resource ANet put into to develop all the wonderful zones.

I’m guessing Anet is attempting to focus player population in plans for future expansions, but the measure has gone too far. We have crowded zones where younger characters can not get in a hit before all the level 80s shot and killed the mobs. We have wasteland-like feeling when off-the-track, where the game appears to be dying.

Suggestion: Go back to the old racial area designation for the daily events. Make it Maguna, Ascalon, etc.

I just want to say I have a very slow computer, now to some may say “buy a better computer”. I was happy trodding along doing the champ train and mining and grinding the way I was. But now I am forced to do PVP or Fractals to get the daily. I never did like WVW (again forced there to get my legendary) I don’t care to kill other players. My computer is very slow and no one want to play with a crippled player OK I am good with that. But I have decided to do what I can when I can but I wont give them another dime of my money cause, That choice I do have! Thanks ANET

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Just accept it.

ANet wants people to play fractals. Achievement hunters deserve to suffer.

They do seem pretty desperate.

Both Anet and the achievement hunters, that is.

This whole change smacks of desperation by Anet and let’s call it what it really is, a subversive feeble attempt to push players into content they don’t normally play in the hopes they can keep them here while they scramble to bring what many have been asking them for, more new content / an expansion! You think the threat of punishing those who won’t fall in line is the right path to take, wrong you are so bloody wrong.

You’re trying to force players hands, through some petty blackmail attempt well you may not like the fallout for doing so. I got it, you don’t want me playing the way i want to play, message received, ill just stop playing!

If they changed "kill a specific world boss " (which implies specific times of day) to “kill any world boss” (which you can generally do in the next 20 mins) , it would be better.

If they changed "4 events in Queensdale " to “4 events in Kryta”, it might be less bizarrely zergy, or maybe not if the megaserver is already breaking it up. The old “5 events” would work fine.

But really, Anet, I will start doing PvP/Fractals/WvW if I ever want to, not because you put them in a daily. It ain’t gonna happen. You’re just making me wonder what other MMOs are out there.

Beldin.5498:

lordkrall.7241:

Why do people keep shouting about there being no choice but to do Fractals?

WvW and PvP is open to everyone. You have however CHOSEN to not do them. That is not the games fault. It is yours. YOU decide to limit yourself.

If people have no problems to beeing forced to game modes they don’t like .. yeah,
but then they could also play directly fractals.

And of course its the games fault, since we didn’t had such problems under the old system .. because of : more choices for PvE.

Beldin’s right. Your not looking at the whole picture, krall.

The system changed. Under the old system, if people wanted to avoid either of the PvP modes, they were never required to do group content if they wanted to complete the daily. There were some days one could not get the full eight AP available in PvE, but five tasks to “complete” the daily was always doable in solo PvE.

That’s why they’re complaining. The game is now limiting their options in a way it did not before. Now, maybe there’s nothing magical about getting “Daily Completion.” However, some people seem to think it does matter.

Stop blaming the victims.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

you don’t want me playing the way i want to play, message received, ill just stop playing!

I did feel, as I ventured on off-daily zones, how empty it was, and it did occur to me that if this continues, we will have a player base decline. Once that tide has turned, it may be difficult to recapture many players who have moved on. I did not relish the thought of hitting that stage.

Imho, the solution is simple. Just change the daily event back to Maguna, Ascalon, et. It will be an intermediate measure that allows players to make their own decisions. Also add back anything that can help the player participate in building a living, vibrant world. Chief of which may be the daily rez. The world atmosphere takes both the zone design and players to build. Without players in a zone, any beautiful zones may appear dead.

The feeling most people seek for in a mmorpg is a living fantasy world. Rezzing, as minor as it is, does provide a feeling that this is a world where strangers help each other. People who play feel soothed by it, and happy in doing it to develop a connection even in a brief few seconds with another player. You want to make a world where people visit to be happy, to enjoy life, and relish in others help, to be helpful, in the PvE section of the world. Thanks for the read.

In short, plan the daily to facilitate player participation in that fantasy world. Not just manipulate their movements without considering the human side of emotions needed in fantasy world. In WvW and PvP we have fun in competition. In PvE the fun is in cooperation. Give players credit for participating in that cooperation. Rezzing is part of that. As a gamemaster/world builder, this is of course an effective way in even utilizing the player population itself to help you build a world.

Once player base has left, it will be hard to draw them back. Witness what happened to Aion. (Speaking to myself… and just sharing my thoughts in hope to remind devs of what is at stake. I’m sure they already know this.)

//But really, Anet, I will start doing PvP/Fractals/WvW if I ever want to, not because you put them in a daily. It ain’t gonna happen. You’re just making me wonder what other MMOs are out there//

I know I’m beginning to look at new games now. And since I don’t care about pvp or wvw it won’t have to be an mmo and it will save me a lot of money. Don’t take too long GW2 to change the daily or you’ll see your player base plummet.

LOL, I don’t even know what a fractal is, and could care less.

The other stuff was way easy to do for the completionist reward.

Do you suppose it’s possible that she has no problems finding a group?
Is it possible she just doesn’t want to do that content because it isn’t fun for her?
She said the dailies are just an example of why she isn’t playing, not the only reason.
For her one post of “I quit”, how many are now gone that didn’t post?

Her presence made the game better, just like your presence does. Saying good riddance is like letting the door hit you in the butt. Please try to not let your dramatics overshadow the good point you made about this issue being looked at.
Her response to this is just one of many. I don’t quit.
I simply close the gem shop till it’s changed to a ‘fun to play system’ again.

Krestfallen.8025:

Like many people, I’m here to grouse about today’s PvE daily options. I don’t like doing fractals. I don’t find them fun, and I don’t want to do them.

And before anyone says anything about anything, I have played the kitten out of fractals. I have every fractal achievement, got every fractal achievement during the fractured update, and my fractal frequenter is sitting at 446/500. So yes, I have played fractals, given them a chance, and decided that they aren’t fun for me.

And that’s my problem with the new system. Before I could get dailies doing whatever content I felt like at the time: some days I hung out in Dry Top, other days I got them done in dungeons— half the time without even trying! But it was always possible to do them in a playstyle/area that I felt like enjoying on that particular day.

But the new system (and by extension Anet) doesn’t give a flying kitten about what I enjoy. It doesn’t care wether or not I’ve tried that content before, how many hours I gave it to make an impression on me, or what individual decision I came to as a grown kitten adult about wether or not I enjoyed that content (and that includes WvW and PvP too, not just fractals). It just doesn’t care.

Let’s all just be completely honest here: yeah, the PvPers and WvWers were well serviced by the change (and I’m genuinely glad for them), but that was just blind luck. Anet still doesn’t give a kitten. This isn’t about fun or innovative gameplay. This whole bloody boondogle is about those god kitten ed metrics that Anet keeps obsessing over. I mean holy hell, the fact that the bulk of the rewards are given just for logging in is proof of that. Since when the kitten is typing in my username and password “innovative gameplay”?

All this, and I mean all this, is just so that Anet can go into meetings with investers and CEOs and journalists and whatever and kitten over artificially inflated numbers. “See! See! Look at how many concurrent users we have! See! See! Look at how many more players are entering World versus World! See! See! Look at how succesful we are!”

Look, wether you like the new system or you hate it, wether it’s quicker and more convenient for you or a tediuos waste of your time, wether it gave you more options or took them away from you, we should all be disappointed. Disappointed and disgusted that Anet would rather sink time and resources into this gimmick of a system rather than create and/or refine content that’s genuinely compelling in its own right.

I like the fact in the past I could finish the daily just by doing my normal PvE roleplaying gaming. It took longer but I was enjoying the game a lot more. BRING BACK THE OLD DAILY!!!

I also dislike the new dailies. Anet claimed that they were trying to make Dailies easier but in reality they have removed PvE choices from people who want to do more than 3 dailies and get points. They added all kinds of WvW and other optional content dailies.

For the first time since the last time they changed Dailies I will not complete Dailies today. (Nevermind get the additional Achievement points I used to get…)

What really baffles me is this. I hate CM. It traumatized me when I was new and I just don’t go there now. I also don’t complain that I don’t get the token for CM. And when I went to make my minstrel, I forced myself to do it for a reward I deemed was worth it. When you don’t want to do a dungeon, or don’t value the rest for it enough to do it, you just don’t do it. When you don’t want to do a puzzle, you just don’t do it. When you don’t want to do fractals, you just don’t do it. All of these things have tangible rewards, yet you’re perfectly capable of choosing not to do them because you don’t feel the reward merits the endeavor. Why is your approach to dailies so different? Objectively speaking. The dailies now are more rewarding and take less time and effort to do, if you’re willing to branch out into other game modes. But if you don’t want to do that, and you also don’t want to do the more difficult pve content, then don’t! What perpetuates this ideology that you’re “forced” to do the dailies? You’re not. They’re optional, just like everything else three is to do in this game.

Subdue.5479:

What really baffles me is this. I hate CM. It traumatized me when I was new and I just don’t go there now. I also don’t complain that I don’t get the token for CM. And when I went to make my minstrel, I forced myself to do it for a reward I deemed was worth it. When you don’t want to do a dungeon, or don’t value the rest for it enough to do it, you just don’t do it. When you don’t want to do a puzzle, you just don’t do it. When you don’t want to do fractals, you just don’t do it. All of these things have tangible rewards, yet you’re perfectly capable of choosing not to do them because you don’t feel the reward merits the endeavor. Why is your approach to dailies so different? Objectively speaking. The dailies now are more rewarding and take less time and effort to do, if you’re willing to branch out into other game modes. But if you don’t want to do that, and you also don’t want to do the more difficult pve content, then don’t! What perpetuates this ideology that you’re “forced” to do the dailies? You’re not. They’re optional, just like everything else three is to do in this game.

Your question has already been answered in this thread. The daily system has been changed. Before, people could “complete” the daily (5 tasks) without going into WvW or PvP or a dungeon. Yes, those game modes all have their rewards. Well, they still have those rewards. Now, there are days when solo PvE-only players won’t get their AP. This was never the case before – because they could always get whatever AP minimum completion offered before.

The saddest thing is that the whole problem with the new Daily system is 100% self-inflicted by Anet and 100% unnecessarily so.
Those players who regularly went out of their way to squeeze as many AP out of the Daily as they could have it better nowadays. You get your 10 AP much quicker than you used to.

But a the same time they screwed over all those who did not want to go out of their way, who just got their 5+ AP for whatever could be completed by just playing whatever they felt like that day, and just because Anet chose to cut down on the diversity of the PvE Dailies and made the objectives more specific on top of that.
And it’s the latter part that really gets to me. While the original reasons, to set incentives to explore more parts of the game etc., might be well-intended it is really condescending and badly implemented. And worst of all: nobody profits except those who really did not know the event zone or world boss of the day and are thankful for the pointer, a number that is bound to decline as this system stays in effect.
Anet certainly does not care if I mine for iron in one area or the other, so I mine iron wherever I want to play that day… yet now I get a special reward if I mine in a specific region, so I go there first just to get it over with, although I would rather be somewhere else and mining in the Diessa Plateau is not any more challenging than it is in Kessex nor does it add anything to my playing experience other than a bit of annoyance for the extra-time spent off my planned track (and because of my dislike for being told what I should do when there is not a good reason behind it).
Telling players that there are events in a certain zone (Brisban today) might also be well-intended, but for somebody who has 100% exploration on several chars this information is really not all that valuable, and zerging any event in any zone is not the most exciting thing, either, yet is the thing that is guaranteed to happen if everybody gets a special reward if they do this on a given day. And again, Anet does not gain or lose anything if I do my daily events in a specific zone or somewhere else where I am just about to level a new character or just like to be on that day.

And it’s not like this could have been surprising for anybody playing the game on a regular basis. This problem was perfectly predictable, so much so, that I would really like to know how decisions like these are made without somebody pointing out the obvious flaws.

Subdue.5479:

What really baffles me is this. I hate CM. It traumatized me when I was new and I just don’t go there now. I also don’t complain that I don’t get the token for CM. And when I went to make my minstrel, I forced myself to do it for a reward I deemed was worth it. When you don’t want to do a dungeon, or don’t value the rest for it enough to do it, you just don’t do it. When you don’t want to do a puzzle, you just don’t do it. When you don’t want to do fractals, you just don’t do it. All of these things have tangible rewards, yet you’re perfectly capable of choosing not to do them because you don’t feel the reward merits the endeavor. Why is your approach to dailies so different? Objectively speaking. The dailies now are more rewarding and take less time and effort to do, if you’re willing to branch out into other game modes. But if you don’t want to do that, and you also don’t want to do the more difficult pve content, then don’t! What perpetuates this ideology that you’re “forced” to do the dailies? You’re not. They’re optional, just like everything else three is to do in this game.

They aren’t if you’re interested in AP. Basically the old system was fine, let’s just call it how it is. I’m fine personally with it now, it’s more of a pain, sure, but it’s still doable, for me. But, it doesn’t actually improve the game, for me, it makes it less convenient. I liked just being able to play content and get a side reward.

Dungeon rewards for legendaries, while it might suck, i still don’t hate the concept, it was introduced that way and hasn’t changed, it’s a design ideal and it’s stuck around. Dailies have been re-vamped at least 3 times now, for what? What’s the bigger picture we are missing here? First intro was more like this, player feedback changed it and now we are back here, for what reason again? It doesn’t help that we don’t get a broader scope of the whys. So lack of communication hurts all of us.

Saying we changed this because X is coming soon™ would actually be more palatable. Then there is “how long do we wait to know one way or the other”. Seems Gaile is gathering feedback, that’s good, let’s see how long it takes to “fix” issues players have.

Locce.8405:

The saddest thing is that the whole problem with the new Daily system is 100% self-inflicted by Anet and 100% unnecessarily so.

Anet is not responsible for your choice of things you refuse to do.

Three of the WvW achievements require either killing a single NPC no harder than a veteran or just standing in a single spot. I have never encountered another player while doing any of those three.

Whether or not someone vehemently refuses to spend a minute killing a single mob or standing in a single spot is not 100% Anet-inflicted.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Subdue.5479:

What really baffles me is this. I hate CM. It traumatized me when I was new and I just don’t go there now. I also don’t complain that I don’t get the token for CM. And when I went to make my minstrel, I forced myself to do it for a reward I deemed was worth it. When you don’t want to do a dungeon, or don’t value the rest for it enough to do it, you just don’t do it. When you don’t want to do a puzzle, you just don’t do it. When you don’t want to do fractals, you just don’t do it. All of these things have tangible rewards, yet you’re perfectly capable of choosing not to do them because you don’t feel the reward merits the endeavor. Why is your approach to dailies so different? Objectively speaking. The dailies now are more rewarding and take less time and effort to do, if you’re willing to branch out into other game modes. But if you don’t want to do that, and you also don’t want to do the more difficult pve content, then don’t! What perpetuates this ideology that you’re “forced” to do the dailies? You’re not. They’re optional, just like everything else three is to do in this game.

Your question has already been answered in this thread. The daily system has been changed. Before, people could “complete” the daily (5 tasks) without going into WvW or PvP or a dungeon. Yes, those game modes all have their rewards. Well, they still have those rewards. Now, there are days when solo PvE-only players won’t get their AP. This was never the case before – because they could always get whatever AP minimum completion offered before.

“We used to be able to do it before,” doesn’t really mean anything though. The dailies were replaced by the login reward for all intent and purposes, and the new dailies are really something different. What I’m asking is, what is intrinsically flawed with a system that rewards players for venturing into other game modes?

Subdue.5479:

What really baffles me is this. I hate CM. It traumatized me when I was new and I just don’t go there now. I also don’t complain that I don’t get the token for CM. And when I went to make my minstrel, I forced myself to do it for a reward I deemed was worth it. When you don’t want to do a dungeon, or don’t value the rest for it enough to do it, you just don’t do it. When you don’t want to do a puzzle, you just don’t do it. When you don’t want to do fractals, you just don’t do it. All of these things have tangible rewards, yet you’re perfectly capable of choosing not to do them because you don’t feel the reward merits the endeavor. Why is your approach to dailies so different? Objectively speaking. The dailies now are more rewarding and take less time and effort to do, if you’re willing to branch out into other game modes. But if you don’t want to do that, and you also don’t want to do the more difficult pve content, then don’t! What perpetuates this ideology that you’re “forced” to do the dailies? You’re not. They’re optional, just like everything else three is to do in this game.

Just for the record, I did exactly like you’ve suggested here: I don’t like fractals, so I didn’t do the daily, easy as that.

Over these past twenty nine pages, we’ve all of us begun talking in circles, and I have the feeling it’s because both sides are refusing to acknowledge the other sides key point.

Players who didn’t enjoy PvE content (dungeons, open world, fractals, meta bosses, etc…), suddenly find themselves with vastly more, vastly easier activities to be rewarded with, so these players do like the new system. And, as I said before, I’m genuinely stoked that these players have received this nice quality of life improvement.

But players who did enjoy PvE (dungeons, open world, fractals, meta bosses, etc…) have found themselves with vastly fewer options that can be accomplished in only in a very narrow range of ways. Why is it that one cannot understand why this is disappointing/frustrating?

Pour example, every time the “Event Mentor” daily came up, I hit the Meta Boss train, because most Meta-Bosses are in underleveled zones anyway. Now what we have is “Horrify all the newbies by bum rushing Queensdale like a black plague of grossly over powered locusts.” Daily kills? I got to decide wether those were done in a dungeon, in Dry Top, while helping a friend complete a story mission, it was my call.

Someone above me already pointed this out, but it’s worth bringing it up again: this is a classic example of Arena Net refusing to give us something without also taking something away. More options for PvP/WvW that don’t interfere with their usual choice of play? More power too you! I’m all for it! Applause and confetti everywhere!

But why, why does adding that in mean that PvE players had to have their options gutted?

And those of you who argue that the system is trying to “move players into content they may not normally play/haven’t tried before.” I find this to be incredibly condescending and incredibly insulting (both from the players saying this and from the devs who may or may not be thinking this way).
I’ve been playing this game since the servers went up (actually, since the betas). Like I alluded to in my last post, I’ve tried WvW, I’ve tried PvP, I’ve tried it all! And upon trying it I made my own decisions about how I do or do not like to spend my game time. And yet now Anet has taken a system that let me “play how I wanted” (yes, yes, a dangerous and controversial phrase I know, but it was accurate in this case) and replaced it with a big old pair of shackles and a short, short leash.

So why? Why does adding more options for other playstyles mean that PvErs had to have all theirs taken away? Why?

munkiman.3068:

Subdue.5479:

What really baffles me is this. I hate CM. It traumatized me when I was new and I just don’t go there now. I also don’t complain that I don’t get the token for CM. And when I went to make my minstrel, I forced myself to do it for a reward I deemed was worth it. When you don’t want to do a dungeon, or don’t value the rest for it enough to do it, you just don’t do it. When you don’t want to do a puzzle, you just don’t do it. When you don’t want to do fractals, you just don’t do it. All of these things have tangible rewards, yet you’re perfectly capable of choosing not to do them because you don’t feel the reward merits the endeavor. Why is your approach to dailies so different? Objectively speaking. The dailies now are more rewarding and take less time and effort to do, if you’re willing to branch out into other game modes. But if you don’t want to do that, and you also don’t want to do the more difficult pve content, then don’t! What perpetuates this ideology that you’re “forced” to do the dailies? You’re not. They’re optional, just like everything else three is to do in this game.

They aren’t if you’re interested in AP. Basically the old system was fine, let’s just call it how it is. I’m fine personally with it now, it’s more of a pain, sure, but it’s still doable, for me. But, it doesn’t actually improve the game, for me, it makes it less convenient. I liked just being able to play content and get a side reward.

Dungeon rewards for legendaries, while it might suck, i still don’t hate the concept, it was introduced that way and hasn’t changed, it’s a design ideal and it’s stuck around. Dailies have been re-vamped at least 3 times now, for what? What’s the bigger picture we are missing here? First intro was more like this, player feedback changed it and now we are back here, for what reason again? It doesn’t help that we don’t get a broader scope of the whys. So lack of communication hurts all of us.

Saying we changed this because X is coming soon™ would actually be more palatable. Then there is “how long do we wait to know one way or the other”. Seems Gaile is gathering feedback, that’s good, let’s see how long it takes to “fix” issues players have.

I think it’s pretty easy to tell what the purpose the revamp was. They wanted to encourage people to participate in other game modes, so they created incentives to do so. That’s not really a bad thing.

Filaha.1678:

Locce.8405:

The saddest thing is that the whole problem with the new Daily system is 100% self-inflicted by Anet and 100% unnecessarily so.

Anet is not responsible for your choice of things you refuse to do.

Three of the WvW achievements require either killing a single NPC no harder than a veteran or just standing in a single spot. I have never encountered another player while doing any of those three.

Whether or not someone vehemently refuses to spend a minute killing a single mob or standing in a single spot is not 100% Anet-inflicted.

You’re wrong, this is their game, they dictate how you get rewarded. This self-imposed limit, just because you do all modes doesn’t even apply to 10% of the players, i’d bet on that. Fine you do all modes, great.

This is a kitten game, you try and “force” players to play all modes of your game doesn’t magically make them want to play them. Doesn’t matter how “hard” it is, there is nothing else to say about it. World bosses are easy enough for me, if they hit my playtime. Hoorah, Still the same press 1 fest it’s always been, easy peasy.

For some, it’s the same lesser of 2 evils, that’s how Arena seems to work too. Have fun with that. But it’s not magically going to fix the same problems people have with those modes.

The new daily system is anti-player retention, I’ve discovered. Forcing my wife to play modes she does not enjoy has caused her to simply stop playing on many days.

Something ANet must understand is that the social atmosphere makes forced grouping a barrier to gameplay.

Saying “join a guild” doesn’t work when we don’t have a consistent play schedule that fits guild demands.

WvW requires random group-mates, and I don’t think anyone is happy with PUGs.
Fractals are populated by fanatics and farmers. Same with dungeons. Sure, I could spend hours in chat or LFG looking for a friendly group, but that’s not fun. I’d rather be playing.

I’m not anti-social, just anti-jerk. I love playing with other people, joking around, taking on big monsters with a friendly group. Some of my best enjoyment is chatting and goofing off before Jormag or Tequatl. I love people.

But not in the frenetic, selfish world of PvP or fractals or dungeons.

ANet is not “encouraging” or forcing with the new dailies. It’s making the game less fun. And we’ll find something else to do and other places to spend money if ANet continues down this road.

Filaha.1678:

Anet is not responsible for your choice of things you refuse to do.

Good job on pointing out the obvious that has hardly anything to do with the point made. I guess in a more serious context this sort of reasoning is known as victim-blaming. Let’s not do that.

@Krest

The problem I have is that calling the change as a huge pain for pve players is disingenuous. If you absolutely will not give the content a serious look because you’ve already decided you don’t end to, that’s okay, you don’t have to. Today, one of the PvP dailies was point capture, which can be done without even fighting another of player. One of the wvw dailies was kill a dolyak and the other was claim land, CCC which involves killing a veteran and then sitting on s point for a few seconds. All of these can be easily accomplished without fighting another player. Most days I complete the daily in no more than five to ten minutes.

Subdue.5479:

munkiman.3068:

Subdue.5479:

What really baffles me is this. I hate CM. It traumatized me when I was new and I just don’t go there now. I also don’t complain that I don’t get the token for CM. And when I went to make my minstrel, I forced myself to do it for a reward I deemed was worth it. When you don’t want to do a dungeon, or don’t value the rest for it enough to do it, you just don’t do it. When you don’t want to do a puzzle, you just don’t do it. When you don’t want to do fractals, you just don’t do it. All of these things have tangible rewards, yet you’re perfectly capable of choosing not to do them because you don’t feel the reward merits the endeavor. Why is your approach to dailies so different? Objectively speaking. The dailies now are more rewarding and take less time and effort to do, if you’re willing to branch out into other game modes. But if you don’t want to do that, and you also don’t want to do the more difficult pve content, then don’t! What perpetuates this ideology that you’re “forced” to do the dailies? You’re not. They’re optional, just like everything else three is to do in this game.

They aren’t if you’re interested in AP. Basically the old system was fine, let’s just call it how it is. I’m fine personally with it now, it’s more of a pain, sure, but it’s still doable, for me. But, it doesn’t actually improve the game, for me, it makes it less convenient. I liked just being able to play content and get a side reward.

Dungeon rewards for legendaries, while it might suck, i still don’t hate the concept, it was introduced that way and hasn’t changed, it’s a design ideal and it’s stuck around. Dailies have been re-vamped at least 3 times now, for what? What’s the bigger picture we are missing here? First intro was more like this, player feedback changed it and now we are back here, for what reason again? It doesn’t help that we don’t get a broader scope of the whys. So lack of communication hurts all of us.

Saying we changed this because X is coming soon™ would actually be more palatable. Then there is “how long do we wait to know one way or the other”. Seems Gaile is gathering feedback, that’s good, let’s see how long it takes to “fix” issues players have.

I think it’s pretty easy to tell what the purpose the revamp was. They wanted to encourage people to participate in other game modes, so they created incentives to do so. That’s not really a bad thing.

I won’t go into how much of a bad thing that is actually. It’s fine to do short, intros into other game modes, but to basically ask players to do a mode they already “don’t enjoy” key words here, is not an improvement. No, it’s not “forcing” anyone to do anything, but why even do it at all. If i want to PvP, i will, if i want to WvW i will. I don’t need anet to tell me to go do it, if i want AP and i can’t wait around for a world boss or i don’t have enough luck to craft an exotic artificer item.

I really don’t think it’s fair to say it’s a self-imposed limit. Please remember, i wish any that post this malformed info would, that this is a game, it needs to be rewarding, and that is mostly gameplay rewarding. Back in the old system you’d get a ding for just doing the stuff you normally do, now it’s a checklist, even if you like PvP or WvW.

Forget that i’m comparing, But BL2, and Destiny actually reward me in satisfying combat. I can go on, with at least a hundred games that make me feel rewarded for a job well done, where is that in this game? No where…

Subdue.5479:

@Krest

The problem I have is that calling the change as a huge pain for pve players is disingenuous. If you absolutely will not give the content a serious look because you’ve already decided you don’t end to, that’s okay, you don’t have to. Today, one of the PvP dailies was point capture, which can be done without even fighting another of player. One of the wvw dailies was kill a dolyak and the other was claim land, CCC which involves killing a veteran and then sitting on s point for a few seconds. All of these can be easily accomplished without fighting another player. Most days I complete the daily in no more than five to ten minutes.

All of this does not change the fact that you do not go into WvW because you now magically love WvW, but just because you want to get it over with for the Daily completionist, as opposed to completing your Daily on the go as a side-effect of doing what you really want to do. Expecting players to suddenly love a part of the game because you withhold their usual reward unless they take part in it is like betting on Stockholm syndrome.

Imagine somebody just steps into your way while you are walking down the street. He does not have any particular reason to do so, actually he could have just as well stayed where he was, but he chooses to step in your way, just so you have to walk around him.
He might not be fat enough that the way around takes a long detour, but if that guy does this every day, most of us would be pretty annoyed sooner or later.
That’s what the new, specific Daily objectives do.

Think of it this way:

I like lots of different flavors of ice cream.

My wife likes vanilla. Just vanilla.

If all we have is chocolate, my wife doesn’t eat ice cream. Why? Because she doesn’t like chocolate.

That doesn’t make her lazy, or unwilling to try chocolate, or anything bad. She doesn’t like chocolate. No amount of begging (Gaile) or shaming (Others) is going to make her eat chocolate.

She’d rather not eat chocolate, so she doesn’t.

Quite frankly, just because you tried something once and didn’t like it doesn’t mean you’ll never like it. I’ve gone through spurts of shrinking dungeon running, wvwing, and pvping, each ending with me feeling like I had gotten bored of them only to be pulled back into something I had given up on before.

For example, today I played more PvP then I had in the previous three months or so, even though I had been playing daily. I hopped in and doing myself having fun, so I stayed.

Perhaps ap if not a sufficient reward, or not an appropriate reward. The idea of reading players for moving around the world and the content is not a bad thing.

Consider this. If the changes also involved a 10 gold bonus for completing three dailies. Do you think all these pve only players would still end to go back to the old system?

Sytherek.7689:

Think of it this way:

I like lots of different flavors of ice cream.

My wife likes vanilla. Just vanilla.

If all we have is chocolate, my wife doesn’t eat ice cream. Why? Because she doesn’t like chocolate.

That doesn’t make her lazy, or unwilling to try chocolate, or anything bad. She doesn’t like chocolate. No amount of begging (Gaile) or shaming (Others) is going to make her eat chocolate.

She’d rather not eat chocolate, so she doesn’t.

Excellent.

Sytherek.7689:

Think of it this way:

I like lots of different flavors of ice cream.

My wife likes vanilla. Just vanilla.

If all we have is chocolate, my wife doesn’t eat ice cream. Why? Because she doesn’t like chocolate.

That doesn’t make her lazy, or unwilling to try chocolate, or anything bad. She doesn’t like chocolate. No amount of begging (Gaile) or shaming (Others) is going to make her eat chocolate.

She’d rather not eat chocolate, so she doesn’t.

Exactly… If she doesn’t want to do the dailies, then she doesn’t do them. She’s already got her Laurel for logging on and can go do whatever she wants!

We used to be able to do it before," doesn’t really mean anything though. The dailies were replaced by the login reward for all intent and purposes, and the new dailies are really something different. What I’m asking is, what is intrinsically flawed with a system that rewards players for venturing into other game modes?

I apologise, but I strongly disagree. “We used to be able to do it before” means everything. You never take away a player’s ability to make choices without a really good reason to do so (not just talking GWs here, but game design in general). Emphasis being on take away. Yes, the rewards for dailies (other than AP) have been shifted to a new system (and I’ve already stated what I think of that system), but that misses half the point: dailies were fun. Dailies were a way to contextualize a gameplay session, or make what you were going to do anyway just that tiny bit more satisfying.

You ask what issue there is with a system that lures players into new game modes (paraphrasing here. Don’t worry I’m not putting words in your mouth). The answer? Absolutely nothing. Zilch. Zip. Nadda.

The problem, which people continually refuse to acknowledge, is that this system isn’t coming to us from nowhere. It’s actively replacing a system that was already in place. And now with the old system gone and this new one in place, an unspecifued number of players who were satisfied are now being woefully underserved.

So now I will ask it again: why does adding more content for some game type/playstyles mean that others had to be gutted?

Hell, this whole debacle could have been avoided if they had implemented the new system, but just left the old PvE dailies in rotation in the new section. Everything we do now would still be there, just in a less restrictive, disappointing way.

Filaha.1678:

Anet is not responsible for your choice of things you refuse to do.

True.

I just walk away and stop spending money in their store if they don’t make the game fun.

The new dailies are not fun.

Therefore, I play games that are fun, and spend money there.

Gotejjeken.1267:

I already know the response by saying this but…players really need to learn that GW2 is not defined by one specific game mode. It might be annoying to you, but the game is geared so that at least two game modes are played (PvE + WvW or PvE + sPvP at least).

Curious.
I very distinctly remember anet stating before the game came out that a big focus would be playing how you wanted, without PVE players being forced to play PvP (and vice versa) or being forced to run dungeons.

But I guess we can toss that on the ever growing pile of things anet said but didn’t actually do.

Subdue.5479:

Sytherek.7689:

Think of it this way:

I like lots of different flavors of ice cream.

My wife likes vanilla. Just vanilla.

If all we have is chocolate, my wife doesn’t eat ice cream. Why? Because she doesn’t like chocolate.

That doesn’t make her lazy, or unwilling to try chocolate, or anything bad. She doesn’t like chocolate. No amount of begging (Gaile) or shaming (Others) is going to make her eat chocolate.

She’d rather not eat chocolate, so she doesn’t.

Exactly… If she doesn’t want to do the dailies, then she doesn’t do them. She’s already got her Laurel for logging on and can go do whatever she wants!

Actually.. quite true.

GW2’s general gameplay is still somewhat interesting, and we’ve started defining our own goals. Oh, I’ve got bucket-loads of achievements and I’ve explored everything, but my wife hasn’t, so we’re working on a plan, zone by zone. Not rewarding in the sense of game goodies, but fun.

I still think the dailies suck and were only changed because WvW populations were down.

Krestfallen.8025:

We used to be able to do it before," doesn’t really mean anything though. The dailies were replaced by the login reward for all intent and purposes, and the new dailies are really something different. What I’m asking is, what is intrinsically flawed with a system that rewards players for venturing into other game modes?

I apologise, but I strongly disagree. “We used to be able to do it before” means everything. You never take away a player’s ability to make choices without a really good reason to do so (not just talking GWs here, but game design in general). Emphasis being on take away. Yes, the rewards for dailies (other than AP have been shifted to a new system (and I’ve already stated what I think of that system), but that misses half the point: dailies were fun. Dailies were a way to contextualize a gameplay session, or make what you were going to do anyway just that tiny bit more satisfying.

You ask what issue there is with a system that lures players into new game modes (paraphrasing here. Don’t worry I’m not putting words in your mouth). The answer? Absolutely nothing. Zilch. Zip. Nadda.

The problem, which people continually refuse to acknowledge, is that this system isn’t coming to us from nowhere. It’s actively replacing a system that was already in place. And now with the old system gone and this new one in place, an unspecifued number of players who were satisfied are now being woefully underserved.

So now I will ask it again: why does adding more content for some game type/playstyles mean that others had to be gutted?

Hell, this whole debacle could have been avoided if they had implemented the new system, but just left the old PvE dailies in rotation in the new section. Everything we do now would still be there, just in a less restrictive, disappointing way.

… If the old options still existed then the “lure” as you or it wouldn’t be effective. If the girl is the changes is to encourage players to explore other zones and modes, leaving the old dailies in place would be counterproductive.

And let’s be honest here, the old dailies were not any more “fun” then the new ones. At best, they were passive and ignorable, and most likely they just happened is you wander around open world, where as the new ones cause you to have to decide how you want to complete them, or if you even ever to complete them at all that day.

Subdue.5479:

Quite frankly, just because you tried something once and didn’t like it doesn’t mean you’ll never like it. I’ve gone through spurts of shrinking dungeon running, wvwing, and pvping, each ending with me feeling like I had gotten bored of them only to be pulled back into something I had given up on before.

Quite frankly, urging everybody to try stuff the didn’t like before, just because some might change their opinion, thus deeming everybody else’s opinion unqualified, is very patronising.

Consider this. If the changes also involved a 10 gold bonus for completing three dailies. Do you think all these pve only players would still end to go back to the old system?

Consider this: there already is a name for doing something I would not like to do otherwise, just because somebody else pays me enough for it. It’s called “a job”. I prefer my games without many job-like attributes, thank you.

Subdue.5479:

@Krest

The problem I have is that calling the change as a huge pain for pve players is disingenuous. If you absolutely will not give the content a serious look because you’ve already decided you don’t end to, that’s okay, you don’t have to. Today, one of the PvP dailies was point capture, which can be done without even fighting another of player. One of the wvw dailies was kill a dolyak and the other was claim land, CCC which involves killing a veteran and then sitting on s point for a few seconds. All of these can be easily accomplished without fighting another player. Most days I complete the daily in no more than five to ten minutes.

So…. You managed to do a PvP reward without interacting with the PvP community. You managed to do WvW dailies without (or in the most miniscule of ways) interacting with the WvW community…

If “forcibly” ushering players into these game modes isn’t even having an impact on these game modes/communities (which you yourself just argued) then what, by all that is holy in heaven, is the point of “forcing” us there in the first place?

I repeat: if you can do these achievements without even interacting with thise communities (which you just argued), then what is the point of forcing us to go there in the first place?

munkiman.3068:

Filaha.1678:

Locce.8405:

The saddest thing is that the whole problem with the new Daily system is 100% self-inflicted by Anet and 100% unnecessarily so.

Anet is not responsible for your choice of things you refuse to do.

Three of the WvW achievements require either killing a single NPC no harder than a veteran or just standing in a single spot. I have never encountered another player while doing any of those three.

Whether or not someone vehemently refuses to spend a minute killing a single mob or standing in a single spot is not 100% Anet-inflicted.

You’re wrong, this is their game, they dictate how you get rewarded. This self-imposed limit, just because you do all modes doesn’t even apply to 10% of the players, i’d bet on that. Fine you do all modes, great.

This is a kitten game, you try and “force” players to play all modes of your game doesn’t magically make them want to play them. Doesn’t matter how “hard” it is, there is nothing else to say about it. World bosses are easy enough for me, if they hit my playtime. Hoorah, Still the same press 1 fest it’s always been, easy peasy.

For some, it’s the same lesser of 2 evils, that’s how Arena seems to work too. Have fun with that. But it’s not magically going to fix the same problems people have with those modes.

I don’t do all game modes.

But I also don’t blame Arenanet for it. It’s my choice not to do PvP, and I accept that I won’t get the rewards for doing PvP because I chose not to.

Krestfallen.8025:

….
I repeat: if you can do these achievements without even interacting with thise communities (which you just argued), then what is the point of forcing us to go there in the first place?

I’m going to take a random stab here and say…
It’s an attempt to show/lure you into “more” (be it old, but still less explored by you) game content.
And by “you” I don’t specifically mean you Krest, I mean everyone in general.

I have met multiple people that “play” MMOs simply as interactive chat-rooms, rather than actual games. So those kind of people actually do exist. And why should they have to go out of their way to do stuff when people here demand that they shouldn’t have to leave PvE (which they don’t even have to do) in order to do it?

If all they are doing is an interactive chat room then they have no need for clearing daily achievements. Again, strawman argument, come back when there are actually real people seriously complaining about this, and we can tell them to shut up together.

Why do you want to do dailies at all? You want to be able to do them without going out of your way (more than a minimal amount, anyway). But you still want to have a checklist for some reason?

Yes.

I already know the response by saying this but…players really need to learn that GW2 is not defined by one specific game mode. It might be annoying to you, but the game is geared so that at least two game modes are played (PvE + WvW or PvE + sPvP at least).

No.

Krestfallen.8025:

Subdue.5479:

@Krest

The problem I have is that calling the change as a huge pain for pve players is disingenuous. If you absolutely will not give the content a serious look because you’ve already decided you don’t end to, that’s okay, you don’t have to. Today, one of the PvP dailies was point capture, which can be done without even fighting another of player. One of the wvw dailies was kill a dolyak and the other was claim land, CCC which involves killing a veteran and then sitting on s point for a few seconds. All of these can be easily accomplished without fighting another player. Most days I complete the daily in no more than five to ten minutes.

So…. You managed to do a PvP reward without interacting with the PvP community. You managed to do WvW dailies without (or in the most miniscule of ways) interacting with the WvW community…

If “forcibly” ushering players into these game modes isn’t even having an impact on these game modes/communities (which you yourself just argued) then what, by all that is holy in heaven, is the point of “forcing” us there in the first place?

I repeat: if you can do these achievements without even interacting with thise communities (which you just argued), then what is the point of forcing us to go there in the first place?

That’s simple. Getting someone there is the toughest part. Once someone is there, the hope is that they’ll find something they like. If they do, great! If they don’t, then oh well , they are rewarded more than they used to be for going a few minutes out of their way.

This game is at the end of the day all about choices. Is you feel the reward for an activity is worth it, then you’ll do it. If you don’t, then you won’t. I personally run past onions, roots, copper, mithril, but I’ll stop for herbs and orichalcum. The rewards for those are worth it for me. I’ll run cof p1, but generally avoid p3. Again, one is worth it for me. This is the same with the dailies. If the ap and token rewards are worth it for you, then you’ll do them. If they’re not, then you won’t. You’re not forced to do them.