Guild Wars 2

darkace.8925:

I think their lack of response is because they know they’ve created an insatiable monster. To let the monster run amuck isn’t good for the good citizens of Tyria, but any attempts to check the monster will result in a display of wrath terrible to behold.

I can hardly wait!

Im Mudbone.1437:

Lucius.2140:

Im Mudbone.1437:

I blame both, as I said before, have you not heard the saying “ignorance of the law(or in this case, the ToS) is not an excuse”. People should read and be expected to adhere to the rules no matter how trivial they may seem to you. Next.

Thats ok, but the problem isnt the farm but how some farmers react to normal people playing the game. So the act of farm isnt the problem but the behavior some of the farmers have when someone is playing their zerg chain. Next.

Farming in and of itself isn’t illegal(I’m a farmer), It’s the method used(the zerg train causing purposely failed events in order to get not as intended gains). Here’s your sign.

You cannot prove people intentionally failed the event.

You may think they did but you cannot prove people intentionally fail any events.

You cannot ban people for failing events because you cannot prove they intentionally failed the events. If you start banning people for failing events, you will have to ban people for failing all events because you cannot prove the intent.

I like to try to solo some events to see if I can do it. I may bang my head against that wall several times before I succeed. It may look like I’m farming but I’m actually trying to accomplish a personal goal. If we have it the way it seems you want, I would get banned even though I’m trying to finish the event but failing.

You cannot prove the intent of the event, no matter what you come up with because you will get innocent people in the mix and that is more harmful to the game.

There is also nothing in the ToS that states farming is not allowed. There is nothing in the event to ban people for, there is nothing here that is against the ToS regarding any of the events. Only thing that would be considered against ToS would be the stories I hear of players berating other players for finishing the event. Players behaving badly toward other players is not a problem with the event but players themselves.

theres a champion in the game that dies with 3 hits and that gives a box, and that you can kill every 30s so yeah nerf that to xd

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

You cannot ban people for failing events because you cannot prove they intentionally failed the events. If you start banning people for failing events, you will have to ban people for failing all events because you cannot prove the intent.

You use this word here “cannot”, when I assure you . . . they can, they just probably choose not to. Remember, the people who run the MMOs? They’re allowed to terminate your account. That’s something they can do, and while some lawyer-minded player can comb through the conduct rules and claim “I wasn’t breaking any of them”, the ban can happen.

The question isn’t “can ArenaNet ban them?” but “will they?” and the answer is “probably not” but it’s more likely they’ll dole out suspensions to people being substantially abusive and lay out a nicely worded warning of “play nice or we take your toys away”.

tolunart.2095:

Kronus.6048:

…the farmers are rushing to get as many rewards as possible before the nerfhammer hits. It’s not the farmers fault really…

It really is. Try actually playing the game as it is intended to be played instead of squeezing every copper out of it until Anet is forced to step in.

That too is a problem ArenaNet created, though. They placed so much of the game’s purpose on accumulating gold. The design of the game is far too structured around the principles of economy. 90% of the players in this game are bent on finding the most efficient way to scoop pennies into their packs because too many things have a price tag, including the most prolific reward in the entire game. It’s depressing that so much of the game’s content and beauty is wasted on this concept.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Im Mudbone.1437:

Lucius.2140:

Im Mudbone.1437:

I blame both, as I said before, have you not heard the saying “ignorance of the law(or in this case, the ToS) is not an excuse”. People should read and be expected to adhere to the rules no matter how trivial they may seem to you. Next.

Thats ok, but the problem isnt the farm but how some farmers react to normal people playing the game. So the act of farm isnt the problem but the behavior some of the farmers have when someone is playing their zerg chain. Next.

Farming in and of itself isn’t illegal(I’m a farmer), It’s the method used(the zerg train causing purposely failed events in order to get not as intended gains). Here’s your sign.

You cannot prove people intentionally failed the event.

You may think they did but you cannot prove people intentionally fail any events.

You cannot ban people for failing events because you cannot prove they intentionally failed the events. If you start banning people for failing events, you will have to ban people for failing all events because you cannot prove the intent.

I like to try to solo some events to see if I can do it. I may bang my head against that wall several times before I succeed. It may look like I’m farming but I’m actually trying to accomplish a personal goal. If we have it the way it seems you want, I would get banned even though I’m trying to finish the event but failing.

You cannot prove the intent of the event, no matter what you come up with because you will get innocent people in the mix and that is more harmful to the game.

There is also nothing in the ToS that states farming is not allowed. There is nothing in the event to ban people for, there is nothing here that is against the ToS regarding any of the events. Only thing that would be considered against ToS would be the stories I hear of players berating other players for finishing the event. Players behaving badly toward other players is not a problem with the event but players themselves.

Give me a break, a 30 or 50 man zerg with closed areas repeatedly doing the same thing over and over isn’t proof enough. I’m not stupid nor do I think anyone else playing the game is.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

You cannot ban people for failing events because you cannot prove they intentionally failed the events. If you start banning people for failing events, you will have to ban people for failing all events because you cannot prove the intent.

You use this word here “cannot”, when I assure you . . . they can, they just probably choose not to. Remember, the people who run the MMOs? They’re allowed to terminate your account. That’s something they can do, and while some lawyer-minded player can comb through the conduct rules and claim “I wasn’t breaking any of them”, the ban can happen.

The question isn’t “can ArenaNet ban them?” but “will they?” and the answer is “probably not” but it’s more likely they’ll dole out suspensions to people being substantially abusive and lay out a nicely worded warning of “play nice or we take your toys away”.

Go ahead and try to prove that I intentionally failed any event just to farm.

You can not. There is no way to prove it. You will get many more innocent people than guilty and you won’t be able to prove guilty.

Im Mudbone.1437:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Im Mudbone.1437:

Lucius.2140:

Im Mudbone.1437:

I blame both, as I said before, have you not heard the saying “ignorance of the law(or in this case, the ToS) is not an excuse”. People should read and be expected to adhere to the rules no matter how trivial they may seem to you. Next.

Thats ok, but the problem isnt the farm but how some farmers react to normal people playing the game. So the act of farm isnt the problem but the behavior some of the farmers have when someone is playing their zerg chain. Next.

Farming in and of itself isn’t illegal(I’m a farmer), It’s the method used(the zerg train causing purposely failed events in order to get not as intended gains). Here’s your sign.

You cannot prove people intentionally failed the event.

You may think they did but you cannot prove people intentionally fail any events.

You cannot ban people for failing events because you cannot prove they intentionally failed the events. If you start banning people for failing events, you will have to ban people for failing all events because you cannot prove the intent.

I like to try to solo some events to see if I can do it. I may bang my head against that wall several times before I succeed. It may look like I’m farming but I’m actually trying to accomplish a personal goal. If we have it the way it seems you want, I would get banned even though I’m trying to finish the event but failing.

You cannot prove the intent of the event, no matter what you come up with because you will get innocent people in the mix and that is more harmful to the game.

There is also nothing in the ToS that states farming is not allowed. There is nothing in the event to ban people for, there is nothing here that is against the ToS regarding any of the events. Only thing that would be considered against ToS would be the stories I hear of players berating other players for finishing the event. Players behaving badly toward other players is not a problem with the event but players themselves.

Give me a break, a 30 or 50 man zerg with closed areas repeatedly doing the same thing over and over isn’t proof enough. I’m not stupid nor do I think anyone else playing the game is.

You are if you think that it can be proven.

Doing something over and over isn’t proof. Too many times I’ve seen events fail because of lack of coordination, couldn’t keep something alive, any other reason for an event to fail.

You cannot ban worthy prove that they are intentionally failing any event.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

5. Even the game itself dislikes it.
It literally breaks the game in that spot. It highlights all of the worst aspects of the current game engine and mechanics by culling out mobs and spells (getting instagibbed by an invisible AoE from an invisible Champion is always fun) and requiring full teams of berserker-only high dps characters just to get any significant amount of loot at all.

I really don’t care how people collect their gold, but this is the part that gets me. The only challenge is to try to tag the mobs before they die, which, to be honest is pretty difficult. And that’s if they’re not invisible. I found myself getting a chest from maybe 1/3 champs.

If the new, trendy thing to do in the game is flock to an event that is this obviously broken, regardless of whether or not it is an exploit, something is not right.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

It’s ironic that most of the nerfed farming spots (such as Pen/Shelt) were nerfed into oblivion for rewarding based on intended mechanics (completion), while this Shank Anchorage farm has been going on without the immediate hotfix that it needs and deserves. It is, in my opinion, the single most toxic example of farming that has occurred in Guild Wars 2 to date. …

3. It is exploitation of one of the most important dynamic events in the game.

Arah is permanently locked because of exploitation of the Shank Anchorage event. The farmers’ response to this? They will tell you to guest to another server, as if that excused their actions.

You are wrong, intentionally most likely, because it has been said repeatedly that the Arah way point is not tied to the completion of that event and hasn’t been for months. If the event fails then the way point is uncontested and stays that way 90% of the time.

Grey Warden.2983:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

It’s ironic that most of the nerfed farming spots (such as Pen/Shelt) were nerfed into oblivion for rewarding based on intended mechanics (completion), while this Shank Anchorage farm has been going on without the immediate hotfix that it needs and deserves. It is, in my opinion, the single most toxic example of farming that has occurred in Guild Wars 2 to date. …

3. It is exploitation of one of the most important dynamic events in the game.

Arah is permanently locked because of exploitation of the Shank Anchorage event. The farmers’ response to this? They will tell you to guest to another server, as if that excused their actions.

You are wrong, intentionally most likely, because it has been said repeatedly that the Arah way point is not tied to the completion of that event and hasn’t been for months. If the event fails then the way point is uncontested and stays that way 90% of the time.

That is true, but lazy players want everything to be handled to them and teleport here right away instead of walking. It’s the ’’entitlement’’ of the players today. Mudbone or w/e wants farmers banned because apparently it’s unfair, so overall let’s ban everyone+ TP players too because they gain unfair amounts of gold while sitting in LA. You fail an event in ORR because bunch of risen chicken champs appeared?BAN!. You farm with a zerg? ban! You trade huge amounts of items? BAN!

I still don’t understand what was wrong with CoF p1 and Pent/Shelter. Take into consideration that the struggle to control a society’s gameplay in an mmorpg so as to prevent them from farming is like the Red Queen phenomenon -the eternal arms race- where farmers will simply shift to the next most efficient way of farming. Cof p1 and Pent/Shelter already gave the best premises to give the farmers what they want.

Crown Pavillion is a farmers paradise. Lodestones and T6 mats from destroyers. Bags of T6 mats from bandits, pirates and ogres. High drop rate for rares. Integrated magic find and a least two champions per five minutes.

However people would rather abuse the new champ loot system so events and champions all see a nerf rather than farm the area the was placed there specifically to farm.

I think there is a subtle point here Anet is trying to prove after all of the excuses that events are only sabotaged because farming areas a nerfed. And that is, it doesn’t matter how much they can give us legitimately, if players can abuse something to get more then they will. Even if it is to the detriment of the developers, game and community.

Hey, I was wondering if this would work out as a suggestion.

For Dynamic Events such as this one, the ‘champ rewards’ are not awarded or lootable immediately but accumulated in a buffer (or whatever the proper term is) for each player. If the event succeeds, everyone involved gets whatever they’ve earned in the buffer. If it fails, you get only the karma and XP. This way, zerg groups will still get their rewards and players who want to complete events in CS will get help from the zerg.

Farmers will probably not be happy but they should also realize that the current situation cannot be maintained without change.

justkoh.4073:

Hey, I was wondering if this would work out as a suggestion.

For Dynamic Events such as this one, the ‘champ rewards’ are not awarded or lootable immediately but accumulated in a buffer (or whatever the proper term is) for each player. If the event succeeds, everyone involved gets whatever they’ve earned in the buffer. If it fails, you get only the karma and XP. This way, zerg groups will still get their rewards and players who want to complete events in CS will get help from the zerg.

Farmers will probably not be happy but they should also realize that the current situation cannot be maintained without change.

I was going to suggest that the timer for a failed event was aligned with the exact same of that with a successful event. However I like your ‘buffer’ idea better. It would not be considered a nerf except in the most negligible way as to the time factor.
Hopefully something like this will be considered because as others have said so much of the game is tied to gold acquisition. Last time I checked no one was failing anything purposefully to garner more Karma. ( I know that’s impossible but just an example of a currency that is mostly ignored)

You know, with the anchorage event specifically, I don’t think it would take more than two people to destroy the cauldrons, being that the mobs are all focused on the rest of the zerg. I could be wrong. I’ve never bothered to try it. The zerg will be occupied with killing the champs though, you can bet on that. Take out the cauldrons, complete the event, take screenshots of their comments and report for harassment when they get out of hand.

Neural.1824:

You know, with the anchorage event specifically, I don’t think it would take more than two people to destroy the cauldrons, being that the mobs are all focused on the rest of the zerg. I could be wrong. I’ve never bothered to try it. The zerg will be occupied with killing the champs though, you can bet on that. Take out the cauldrons, complete the event, take screenshots of their comments and report for harassment when they get out of hand.

The problem is that the end champ scales up based on the number of players there – and there will be a LOT of players there. It would take a significant number of players to “grief” the zerg.

And griefing the zerg for the sake of griefing the zerg is not good behavior either. For a more simple moral example, look at the Queensdale champ farm. There are three basic types of players:

1) The zerg farming champions. These include non-toxic players who are just looking for rewards and won’t harass “ninjas” and toxic players who will give any “ninjas” hell for stealing one or more champions.

2) The players who “ninja” champions just to play the game because they had the people there and wanted to kill a champion. No harm was meant to the zerg, but the zerg will probably insult them anyway.

3) The players who go out of their way to “ninja” champions just to inconvenience the zerg. They’re every bit as toxic as the zerg that will no doubt harass them for it.

It’s a tricky situation. I can’t ever approve of deliberately trolling another group of players just because they’re participating in an activity that you find distasteful, but at the same time, if you just wanted to complete the event just to complete the event, you don’t deserve to be flamed for it.

AcidicVision.5498:

Crown Pavillion is a farmers paradise. Lodestones and T6 mats from destroyers. Bags of T6 mats from bandits, pirates and ogres. High drop rate for rares. Integrated magic find and a least two champions per five minutes.

However people would rather abuse the new champ loot system so events and champions all see a nerf rather than farm the area the was placed there specifically to farm.

I think there is a subtle point here Anet is trying to prove after all of the excuses that events are only sabotaged because farming areas a nerfed. And that is, it doesn’t matter how much they can give us legitimately, if players can abuse something to get more then they will. Even if it is to the detriment of the developers, game and community.

‘Farmers paradise’ is a bit wrong. I frown heavily on ANet’s blanket nerf tactics, i.e, sweeping away Lyssa, nerfing pentinent, plinx, and even old ones like Frostgorge troll area farming. Oh, yes, I remember what the devs do. When the economy started to inflate higher and higher because supply was shrinking from the lootless mobs, they introduced southsun cove.

After the event was over, loot was starting to be scarce once again and the next few patches introduced ‘high dropping’ loot farm (which is actually pretty much a false thing, T6 mats are still very annoying to get), to regulate the economy. More and more people started going about to go to the area to kill things.

And finally, I ask you what’s the point of sweatshop farming?

How many hours can you stand doing this 6 rotations run about? 1 hour of milling about there where your loot is maybe 200 bags per hour? How many bags do you need to fill up your bank? 15000 bags? That means you have to do it for 75 hours non stop without a single break. Maybe 100 hours of repeating the kitten cycle.

And don’t forget you have DR.

Each time I see anet come up with some sort of poop MF event for farming, I really want to smack my table.

That being said, I really don’t like such players in-game exploiting a DE (even though I don’t blame them, they really are starved for better loot). I absolutely agree a nerf should be done, where champs appear once or twice and that’s it. You already have lots of champs and the speed of getting a single chest isn’t that bad either.

But sweatshop farming? Isn’t that supposed to be what DEs give out?

ANet is not going to ban people for failing an event deliberately. They might ban people for abusive language towards other players. Death threats would probably be bannable also.

CMF.5461:

Actually, I think the simple solution would be that dynamic events scale to success and failure rates as well as surrounding players.

The more often…

Unfortunately, this idea has too many undesirable shortcomings.

For instance, it would not work very well with randomly sized groups of players that legitimately try to complete the event. You could get an event that is either too easy, or completely impossible to do, for no really good reason.

i think in the next update all champs will be extremely buffed… Something like the old abomination of balthazar… 1 hit = 50 players dead.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Go ahead and try to prove that I intentionally failed any event just to farm.

You can not. There is no way to prove it. You will get many more innocent people than guilty and you won’t be able to prove guilty.

That’s not the point, and that’s not what I was addressing at all. You said ANet cannot just ban people for X. I pointed out “well, yes, yes they can”. It’s their right to do so, they just choose not to.

In this case, they’d probably ban/suspend the people slinging the bile around and say “now seriously guys, knock this off”. Of course, that’s what I’d do. Either that or never make an MMO in the first place . . .

Although I’m certain this will be fixed next week, it’s shocking no developer has replied to this concern. It’s a huge issue in the community and economy.

Lopez.7369:

Although I’m certain this will be fixed next week, it’s shocking no developer has replied to this concern. It’s a huge issue in the community and economy.

What are they going to say? Whatever they say, whether they’re going to change it or leave it as is, they’re going to be jeered by half the community. When what you say is going to upset a great many people, it’s generally best to say nothing at all.

Did you know, after its first few hours, the crown pavillon was nerfed ? When it was released, there were 2-3 champions in each zone and the champion centaurs used to respwan incredibly fast. Giving boxes to everyone.
It was more “fun” that Shank…at least you could see most things and there weren’t hundreds of other players next to you.

Anet won’t ban players. No one is taking advantage of a bug : before this update, those champions spawned if there were too much players. It was their own idea to make champion spawn in Cursed Shore when there were too many players doing an event.

As for those completing the event : quit QQ’ing and just complete it if you want to. While doing so, report for abusive language and block anyone who insult you, then tick of the map chat when you are tired of it. I think you can even tick off pms.
Did you know ? There’s virtually no limit to the block list. (Although after a while, around 100+ persons on it, your game might slow down).

Champions need not be nerfed. If an event is allowed to fail, the timer for it to restart should be extended well beyond the timer for it to reset from completion.
In this case, there’s more incentive to actually follow through and complete the events as they will restart sooner for more farming.

I wish Anet would ban the exploiters, instead of nerfing the whole event for everybody. Just the new account sales would pay for the people that review and ban the exploiters

Sligh.2789:

I wish Anet would ban the exploiters, instead of nerfing the whole event for everybody. Just the new account sales would pay for the people that review and ban the exploiters

How many of the exploiters do you think would honestly buy a new account? For many, it would probably be a final straw.

No, nerfing the event or reworking the reward handout in some way is actually the reasonable and safe solution here.

MrRuin.9740:

Champions need not be nerfed. If an event is allowed to fail, the timer for it to restart should be extended well beyond the timer for it to reset from completion.
In this case, there’s more incentive to actually follow through and complete the events as they will restart sooner for more farming.

some “penalization” for fail the event fix the problem ^^

Kronus.6048:

The reason why you see this happening is pretty simple: Arenanet nerfs to the ground every farming area in the game that is seen as profitable so the farmers are rushing to get as many rewards as possible before the nerfhammer hits. It’s not the farmers fault really, but rather the extreme nerf on the farming areas from anet that led to this behaviour. Before you had cof p1 to run, areas to farm and so on. Now, it’s all about the places where champs spawn the most to get as many chests as possible. When this gets nerfed, the zerg will move to the next most profitable thing and repeat the process.

Nerfed to the ground because people keep exploiting events. Said it before – farmers are the cause of their own problems.

fellyn.5083:

Kronus.6048:

The reason why you see this happening is pretty simple: Arenanet nerfs to the ground every farming area in the game that is seen as profitable so the farmers are rushing to get as many rewards as possible before the nerfhammer hits. It’s not the farmers fault really, but rather the extreme nerf on the farming areas from anet that led to this behaviour. Before you had cof p1 to run, areas to farm and so on. Now, it’s all about the places where champs spawn the most to get as many chests as possible. When this gets nerfed, the zerg will move to the next most profitable thing and repeat the process.

Nerfed to the ground because people keep exploiting events. Said it before – farmers are the cause of their own problems.

Need to rephrase it to ZERG FARMERS are the cause of their own problems.

Just drop the champs to vets. Problem solved.

fellyn.5083:

Kronus.6048:

The reason why you see this happening is pretty simple: Arenanet nerfs to the ground every farming area in the game that is seen as profitable so the farmers are rushing to get as many rewards as possible before the nerfhammer hits. It’s not the farmers fault really, but rather the extreme nerf on the farming areas from anet that led to this behaviour. Before you had cof p1 to run, areas to farm and so on. Now, it’s all about the places where champs spawn the most to get as many chests as possible. When this gets nerfed, the zerg will move to the next most profitable thing and repeat the process.

Nerfed to the ground because people keep exploiting events. Said it before – farmers are the cause of their own problems.

what exploits ? really enlighten me on what exploits were used in the old areas. When plinx was farmed there was no exploit happening at all, it was pure farming. Right now farming in Orr you are better if you succeed the events since it’s more champs. The only place I hear about exploits is South.

Also mud seems like you have a personal vendetta against zergs. CP itself is a zerg fest. Anet made it so, just DEAL with it!

Kronus.6048:

what exploits ? really enlighten me on what exploits were used in the old areas. When plinx was farmed there was no exploit happening at all, it was pure farming.

Plinx farming was fine in that respect, it wasn’t exploiting anything. But take a look at two much more recent updates to Orr. The Union Waypoint event at the Lyssa Temple and the champ giant event on the steps leading up to Arah. Both of these were exploited by intentionally not completing the event in order to keep waves of enemies spawning infinitely. The Arah giant event is actually one of the next steps in the event chain that is currently being exploited.

mrstealth.6701:

Kronus.6048:

what exploits ? really enlighten me on what exploits were used in the old areas. When plinx was farmed there was no exploit happening at all, it was pure farming.

Plinx farming was fine in that respect, it wasn’t exploiting anything. But take a look at two much more recent updates to Orr. The Union Waypoint event at the Lyssa Temple and the champ giant event on the steps leading up to Arah. Both of these were exploited by intentionally not completing the event in order to keep waves of enemies spawning infinitely. The Arah giant event is actually one of the next steps in the event chain that is currently being exploited.

Good thing Anet had the sense to nerf those exploits as well. The sooner we can get rid of toxic forms of farming, the sooner more healthy farming methods can take over and be improved.

This is starting to get ridiculous.

After that little outburst, they also Spammed my name on LFG.com for dungeons.
…which resulted in tons of people blind-inviting to my Party.

Terrible attempt at trolling, and I’m not even mad (I LOVE dungeons).
Just sharing this b/c it goes beyond just messing with the order we run these events in…

My guild really likes to do gates of arah event. i told all the farmers a few hours before hand that we were going to be doing it at 10PM sever time last night. i went in 20 minutes before the time as well to let them know again and the rage that ensued was terrible. Some(not all) of the commanders present instructed the zerg to stand at the gates but not to attack so that it would be harder for us to kill the boss with so many people around but those people were not attacking. When we successfully defeated the boss a lot of people cussed us out and accused us of being from a different server even after all my stops in Cursed Shore to let them know we were completing the event.

The problem isn’t the event or ArenaNet (The new Champ drops are AMAZING! Thank you ArenaNet). It’s the player base. We are the issue. The zerg needs to get hit with the nerf bat. I am tired of getting reported for doing an event as intended. We kept our mouths shut though and went on our way and had a great run with fat loots.