Guild Wars 2

Lord Kuru.3685:

jesters.9406:

evadrepus.1280:

The silence is taking a long time. I think there’s only one way to go. I would expect to see a message like this very soon:

“Greetings fellow inhabitants of Tyria,

Earlier this week we opened pre-orders for our exciting new expansion, Heart of Thorns. We are really excited about this expansion – not only does it have the new Elite classes, only a few of which have been fully revealed so far, but it also introduces a whole new world for you to explore. We have many more teasers and spoilers planned over the next few weeks that will let you share our excitement about the expansion.

That said, we here at Anet have been aware of the voice of the community on the pricing or content of the expansion packs we’ve offered. We feel that the prices we listed are appropriate for the content we are releasing, and certainly comparable to the other releases we and other gaming companies are producing these days. We have a fantastic user base, and many of you have been as hyped as us for the expansion. Some of you have been with us from the original Guild Wars, including even some of our beta testers of that game. You veterans form the core of our userbase, and are are often the most vocal supporters for us. Or, in this case, vocal in your discontent. We do want to have you continue your journey with us through Tyria, after all, we have dragons and lore you haven’t even seen yet (are you there, “Bubbles”?).

After a great deal of internal conversation, we’re making the following change to all expansion packs: All packs will now include 800 gems, which is the current cost of a character slot in the game. Are you one of our players who has a maxed character in every slot? You can use these gems to buy yourself a new spot to roll that exciting new Revenant. Are you a newer player and still have open slots? Use these in our Gem Store to buy many quality of life and appearance items – we’re sure you’ll find something you’ll like! For our user base who want to buy the Ultimate Edition, you’ll now get these gems in addition to the ones you already are receiving as part of the package. We expect you to be the snappiest dressed Revenants in Maguuma!

Once again, thank you for your passion around our world. We are on a shared journey and look forward to you joining us in the newest chapter, Heart of Thorns!"

If this is Anet’s response to this situation, I’d not only be happy to pre-purchase now, I’d go ahead and get the Ultimate edition and I know I’m not the only one. I know for some the price of the standard is tad high so the Ultimate is unthinkable for them, but a good-will gesture of 800 gems across the board would at least mean people have equal access to content right out of the HoT “box” and to me that’s the real crux of the matter.

Honestly, I think this kind of gesture would soothe a lot of this anger (though of course not all of it) and get a lot of players back of the hype train again. It would also send a very strong message from Anet: we want new players but we also value our current players and are listening.

anet pls.

New feature announcements from Colin (Dragonite ore eater, ascended stat changes) look like they’re being used to quell the riot. So I don’t think pricing will change.

Well, personally speaking I’ve not said that the price should be reduced or ever thought it would. To my mind, making that $50 minimum stretch out over more (and not even a lot more, 800 gems as suggested) would be the wisest call they could make.

jesters.9406:

Well, personally speaking I’ve not said that the price should be reduced or ever thought it would. To my mind, making that $50 minimum stretch out over more (and not even a lot more, 800 gems as suggested) would be the wisest call they could make.

Exactly. I don’t have a problem paying fifty dollars for an expansion. But not to a company that’s too cheap to even throw in a character slot. It’s about the value for the money, not the bottom-line price itself.

jesters.9406:

Lord Kuru.3685:

jesters.9406:

evadrepus.1280:

The silence is taking a long time. I think there’s only one way to go. I would expect to see a message like this very soon:

“Greetings fellow inhabitants of Tyria,

Earlier this week we opened pre-orders for our exciting new expansion, Heart of Thorns. We are really excited about this expansion – not only does it have the new Elite classes, only a few of which have been fully revealed so far, but it also introduces a whole new world for you to explore. We have many more teasers and spoilers planned over the next few weeks that will let you share our excitement about the expansion.

That said, we here at Anet have been aware of the voice of the community on the pricing or content of the expansion packs we’ve offered. We feel that the prices we listed are appropriate for the content we are releasing, and certainly comparable to the other releases we and other gaming companies are producing these days. We have a fantastic user base, and many of you have been as hyped as us for the expansion. Some of you have been with us from the original Guild Wars, including even some of our beta testers of that game. You veterans form the core of our userbase, and are are often the most vocal supporters for us. Or, in this case, vocal in your discontent. We do want to have you continue your journey with us through Tyria, after all, we have dragons and lore you haven’t even seen yet (are you there, “Bubbles”?).

After a great deal of internal conversation, we’re making the following change to all expansion packs: All packs will now include 800 gems, which is the current cost of a character slot in the game. Are you one of our players who has a maxed character in every slot? You can use these gems to buy yourself a new spot to roll that exciting new Revenant. Are you a newer player and still have open slots? Use these in our Gem Store to buy many quality of life and appearance items – we’re sure you’ll find something you’ll like! For our user base who want to buy the Ultimate Edition, you’ll now get these gems in addition to the ones you already are receiving as part of the package. We expect you to be the snappiest dressed Revenants in Maguuma!

Once again, thank you for your passion around our world. We are on a shared journey and look forward to you joining us in the newest chapter, Heart of Thorns!"

If this is Anet’s response to this situation, I’d not only be happy to pre-purchase now, I’d go ahead and get the Ultimate edition and I know I’m not the only one. I know for some the price of the standard is tad high so the Ultimate is unthinkable for them, but a good-will gesture of 800 gems across the board would at least mean people have equal access to content right out of the HoT “box” and to me that’s the real crux of the matter.

Honestly, I think this kind of gesture would soothe a lot of this anger (though of course not all of it) and get a lot of players back of the hype train again. It would also send a very strong message from Anet: we want new players but we also value our current players and are listening.

anet pls.

New feature announcements from Colin (Dragonite ore eater, ascended stat changes) look like they’re being used to quell the riot. So I don’t think pricing will change.

Well, personally speaking I’ve not said that the price should be reduced or ever thought it would. To my mind, making that $50 minimum stretch out over more (and not even a lot more, 800 gems as suggested) would be the wisest call they could make.

I agree. I was expecting to pay 35$ for the expansion and willing to pay a max of $40. Don’t care about character slots I already have a spare one I used for key farming. What I want is value for my money, giving extra 800 gems ($10worth) which I would have eventually bought anyway brings the expac into the price range I was willing to pay and I am sure it would be enough to satisfy a lot of people who aren’t happy about the current HoT pricing.

jesters.9406:

Lord Kuru.3685:

jesters.9406:

evadrepus.1280:

The silence is taking a long time. I think there’s only one way to go. I would expect to see a message like this very soon:

“Greetings fellow inhabitants of Tyria,

Earlier this week we opened pre-orders for our exciting new expansion, Heart of Thorns. We are really excited about this expansion – not only does it have the new Elite classes, only a few of which have been fully revealed so far, but it also introduces a whole new world for you to explore. We have many more teasers and spoilers planned over the next few weeks that will let you share our excitement about the expansion.

That said, we here at Anet have been aware of the voice of the community on the pricing or content of the expansion packs we’ve offered. We feel that the prices we listed are appropriate for the content we are releasing, and certainly comparable to the other releases we and other gaming companies are producing these days. We have a fantastic user base, and many of you have been as hyped as us for the expansion. Some of you have been with us from the original Guild Wars, including even some of our beta testers of that game. You veterans form the core of our userbase, and are are often the most vocal supporters for us. Or, in this case, vocal in your discontent. We do want to have you continue your journey with us through Tyria, after all, we have dragons and lore you haven’t even seen yet (are you there, “Bubbles”?).

After a great deal of internal conversation, we’re making the following change to all expansion packs: All packs will now include 800 gems, which is the current cost of a character slot in the game. Are you one of our players who has a maxed character in every slot? You can use these gems to buy yourself a new spot to roll that exciting new Revenant. Are you a newer player and still have open slots? Use these in our Gem Store to buy many quality of life and appearance items – we’re sure you’ll find something you’ll like! For our user base who want to buy the Ultimate Edition, you’ll now get these gems in addition to the ones you already are receiving as part of the package. We expect you to be the snappiest dressed Revenants in Maguuma!

Once again, thank you for your passion around our world. We are on a shared journey and look forward to you joining us in the newest chapter, Heart of Thorns!"

If this is Anet’s response to this situation, I’d not only be happy to pre-purchase now, I’d go ahead and get the Ultimate edition and I know I’m not the only one. I know for some the price of the standard is tad high so the Ultimate is unthinkable for them, but a good-will gesture of 800 gems across the board would at least mean people have equal access to content right out of the HoT “box” and to me that’s the real crux of the matter.

Honestly, I think this kind of gesture would soothe a lot of this anger (though of course not all of it) and get a lot of players back of the hype train again. It would also send a very strong message from Anet: we want new players but we also value our current players and are listening.

anet pls.

New feature announcements from Colin (Dragonite ore eater, ascended stat changes) look like they’re being used to quell the riot. So I don’t think pricing will change.

Well, personally speaking I’ve not said that the price should be reduced or ever thought it would. To my mind, making that $50 minimum stretch out over more (and not even a lot more, 800 gems as suggested) would be the wisest call they could make.

Yeah.. sorry, I meant that I don’t think anything will change with regards to pricing — these announcements are meant to appease the crowd so that they don’t need to modify the sale packages.

I’m glad the silence from Anet is deafening. It should be. I preordered and prepaid for the ultimate edition, and I’m very happy with all the perks that come with that.

I don’t want those perks that I paid so much extra for to start being doled out for free to people who’ve bought the cheapest ‘basic’ package. You want the perks? Pay for them then. If you don’t think it’s worth it, don’t buy it.

Greyhound.2058:

I’m glad the silence from Anet is deafening. It should be. I preordered and prepaid for the ultimate edition, and I’m very happy with all the perks that come with that.

I don’t want those perks that I paid so much extra for to start being doled out for free to people who’ve bought the cheapest ‘basic’ package. You want the perks? Pay for them then. If you don’t think it’s worth it, don’t buy it.

But if ANet does rework the expansion packages and they happen to add something extra to the package you’ve already prepurchased, I’m sure you won’t want that either, right? In fact, I’m sure you’ll just delete it, whatever it is, since you only want what you paid for.

Right?

That’s called management or marketing paralysis. Remember some of the upper management are/were at E3 this week. Let them have some time to regroup now that this spat is on game news websites and not just this forum and reddit.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ashen.2907:

Mooncaller.9634:

Under contract ArenaNet is offering Core + Expansion to every purchaser and only delivering Expansion to existing users.

Actually existing users can get exactly the same thing offered to first time buyers. Both get a new account with both core content and HoT included. The existing user, of course, has the option to forgo, at their discretion, the new account in favor of linking to an existing account.

I wouldn’t expect many existing users to choose not to link accounts, but the option to have exactly the same as the first time buyer is there.

Good point.

Although, to be fair to some of those criticizing the pricing, this still means that veterans aren’t offered anything for their years of loyalty. (Well, ‘nothing’ aside from a great game that has given them hundreds or thousands of hours of entertainment, which is probably how NCSOFT and most other game publishers would think of it.)

Why do I keep seeing this argument? Veterans should NOT be offered anything for years of loyalty. This game doesn’t work on that model; it’s not sub based or pay as you go. Someone that plays 5 minutes has as much impact as someone that player 5 years. If there is any patronage (and I don’t think there should be), it’s to the people that buy gems.

And what defines veteran? Day the account was registered? Time played? Gems bought? Forum posts?

Veteran is usually a number of months paid subscription term which isn’t applicable in a B2P game.

Edit: And until the crisis and what to say about it is decided, everyone has gone mute until the official word comes down from above.

Lots of people here must run highly successful software companies, given all the expert opinions on what ANet should/could do.

Trying to analyze ANet’s strategy or internal discussions from the perspective of a outsider is like trying to call the next move of a chess game when you can only see a single square of the board.

What we know:
– A LOT of forum and reddit activity about HoT
– Gaile and Regina immediately responding in ways that indicate the company is very much aware of what is going on
– Numerous other devs actively going through business as usual, working incredibly hard for the MASSIVE, GAME CHANGING PATCH
– A major marketing activity (E3) that would be consuming nearly all the time of key decision makers

What we don’t know:
– what market research and data analytics said about price points
– what the revenue vs cost is to support all the players who only paid $40 for the base game 3 years ago and never bought a gem
– detailed stats on conversion rates from the pre-order thus far across the 3 packages
– how these relate to playtime, age of account and gemstore purchases
– how many players have used all their char slots
– what technology issues might be requiring the inclusion of the base game (e.g. they have no mechanism to create an “upgrade key”)
– what requirements NCSoft has given them, versus their own recommendations
- ratio of forum views/posts to gem purchases, active playerbase, pre-purchases

I could think of dozens of more bits of data they have that we don’t that would have informed the pricing decision and any future reaction to HoTgate.

Who is selling this to you? Anet or NCSoft? Who is paying Anet employees who moderate this forum?

Who tells Anet what they can or cannot release as information on the upcomming expansion?

There could be many reasons Anet hasent replied to any of this, not least of which is the possibility that they might even agree with some of it.

If you want to demand a response, demand it from NCsoft, not Anet.

Ants don’t serve grasshoppers! It’s you who need us!

Greymelken.1892:

Who is selling this to you? Anet or NCSoft? Who is paying Anet employees who moderate this forum?

Who tells Anet what they can or cannot release as information on the upcomming expansion?

There could be many reasons Anet hasent replied to any of this, not least of which is the possibility that they might even agree with some of it.

If you want to demand a response, demand it from NCsoft, not Anet.

I’m not so sure NcSoft if behind all the issues with Anet communication. NcSoft also owns Wildstar and they’re far more communicative. No, I think the Anet choice to talk less comes from Anet, having to deal with this particular community.

In some ways we have a very nice community, one of the nicest. But I’ve never seen a gaming community hang on every syllable of every word either. Someone says one thing once, and that’s it. It’s imprinted on the collect fan hive mind for eternity.

Obtena.7952:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ashen.2907:

Mooncaller.9634:

Under contract ArenaNet is offering Core + Expansion to every purchaser and only delivering Expansion to existing users.

Actually existing users can get exactly the same thing offered to first time buyers. Both get a new account with both core content and HoT included. The existing user, of course, has the option to forgo, at their discretion, the new account in favor of linking to an existing account.

I wouldn’t expect many existing users to choose not to link accounts, but the option to have exactly the same as the first time buyer is there.

Good point.

Although, to be fair to some of those criticizing the pricing, this still means that veterans aren’t offered anything for their years of loyalty. (Well, ‘nothing’ aside from a great game that has given them hundreds or thousands of hours of entertainment, which is probably how NCSOFT and most other game publishers would think of it.)

Why do I keep seeing this argument? Veterans should NOT be offered anything for years of loyalty. This game doesn’t work on that model; it’s not sub based or pay as you go. Someone that plays 5 minutes has as much impact as someone that player 5 years. If there is any patronage (and I don’t think there should be), it’s to the people that buy gems.

I think a few versions of this argument are floating around and what veterans and not-quite-new players (see the link I posted elsewhere in this thread) are saying is being taken as “I’ve been playing since forever, Anet OWES me more stuff than a new player!” when actually I think the argument from pre-established players isn’t about being entitled to things or given more than new players.

What it seems to me is this: if you pay for HoT you should have access to the content being offered for the price you paid. I.e. vets shouldn’t have to pay out more (be it through real money, grinding for gold, or deleting an existing character) for an extra character slot to access the content of the revenant.

It’s honestly not about wanting more than new players for having played longer. Personally, I’ve been playing since GW1 just before they brought out Factions. I have spent money in the gem store and I play often. I don’t want extras or special treatment for that and I WANT new players. But I also want to play the content that’s being released for the minimum amount. $50 should give access to that, but for me it’ll be $60 because I’ll need to buy a slot. And no, I won’t grind for gold to trade for a slot, I’m grinding for gold for other things.

I don’t think it’s an unreasonable ask that there be a principle of equal access to content straight out of the HoT “box.” I’ve bought slots in the past, so I’m not adverse to giving Anet my money, and were it not for feeling like I need to shell out extra to access content I’d be buying the Ultimate edition, personally.

I don’t think, as a vet, that I’m “owed” extra stuff for my investment, but I do think as a customer I should get equal access to the product I’m paying for as a brand new player.

Angelica Dream.7103:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I’m not saying ANet did a great job of pricing or marketing (I don’t think they did). I am saying that reasonable people can disagree about what is fair.

That is so true.
But there is an old saying that “The customer is always right.”

This board has gone viral. Which should at least give them pause for thought. Since so many people disagree, the right marking move might be to toss the players a bone.
All the bad press can not he;p new players want to play.

Though my real point is Anet’s silence on this topic. For some reason they will not explain their side. Hence many players view it as a move to just ride it out. It looks like they do not care about us loyal players.

How much of the Virality of it actually influenced people though? I mean I know just as many people that DID pre-purchase as I know of people who didn’t. Just because something went viral didn’t mean that it affected their bottom line at all and the whole “customer is always right thing” only works sum of the time. Because there are SO many customers and There is never a topic that everyone agrees on.

Im pretty sure things are going apekitten at Anet so that’s why there hasn’t been much. I stopped buying gems and spending money on this game after they kept releasing those lazy outfits month after month. I don’t know if many ppl saw this but the anet from gw1 doesn’t seem to be the same now. They have milked the outfits thing and gemstore so much and now this price tag for an ’’expansion’’ after three years of barely any content.

Its just a huge let down and a slap to the face from all the veteran players from gw1 and the people that started since gw2 came out.

Who knows maybe they will stop doing this and actually listen to ppl and have reasonable prices.

evadrepus.1280:

KGS.9842:

Only that wouldn’t fix the problem: two different groups of people paying the same price, for the same product, during the same time period, and one group receiving more than the other

neither the price, nor the slot is an issue here

Just so it’s clear, what are users getting that others are not? With my proposed solution (which is simply a different way to the same solution everyone else has proposed) they’re essentially saying “Ok, it’s a $40 expansion, plus $10 for a char slot”.

If you’re saying some people are getting a game+expansion while existing players are getting just the expansion, well, there’s where the gems are a consolidation for you for time and let you buy something. Every MMO I’ve played in 15 years has included the base in in the expansion after a very short period of time after that expansion launched. It became the new base. In that case, perhaps you should be furious at me, a person who paid a mere $9.99 for the game, if you’re a person who bought it at release. That’s just standard economics though – price drops on products as it ages, or to keep price points identical you have to offer more on an aged product unless scarcity keeps it artificially high.

New users get a free copy of the core game, which existing users don’t.

this is not the same as a sale:

• in a sale, the change in price varies from one period of time to another
• in this case, the price (or availability of the freebie) varies from user to user

• in a sale, existing players can also obtain another account at sale price
• in this ‘promotion’ existing users are excluded completely.

so no, I’m not angry at you (and not just because you seem to be a nice, reasonable person)
I would be angry if you had gotten the game for $9.99 in a sale which I was not allowed to participate in

the thing is not that new players are getting a good deal. it’s that existing players can’t get the same deal.

the fix for this is to provide two codes – one for the core game, one for the expansion. this should be easy enough, unless Anet’s being less than genuine when they say that GW2 and HoT are separate items. (I’m not saying they are, but there’s a disturbing amount of evidence in that direction…)

Mosharn.8357:

Im pretty sure things are going apekitten at Anet so that’s why there hasn’t been much.

True. Also Anet is owned by NCSoft, which means that every decision they want to make, they have to submit to NCSoft first.

But like every big company, they should have a way to accelerate decisions when in crisis. So it seems to me this is not a crisis for them. It’s just a bunch of old players ranting, like they always do. We have already milked them for 3 years, why should we care if they buy the expansion or not?

Lord Kuru.3685:

New feature announcements from Colin (Dragonite ore eater, ascended stat changes) look like they’re being used to quell the riot. So I don’t think pricing will change.

Unfortunately I agree with Lord Kuru. Anet has a history of just being quite, instead of using communication to explain their side. Though I do not personally believe there is another side except for a major PR fiasco. It appears that it is Anet’s way or the highway. they just don;t care about their base any more.

In the past players begged for years to play Super adventure Box to only received silence.

Where did the deleted human female animation go? Silence.

The pattern is clear.