Guild Wars 2

This subject is simply just ROFL, of all the things to whine about. OP, you and your fellow elitists are the reason I avoid the zerg at Mrs. T like the plague. I man the defensive teams. No issues with don’t res your teammates with them. The thread has been entertaining to read. Other than the disturbing issue of A-Net giving an official endorsement of don’t resurrect your teammates.

Cirran.1429:

Other than the disturbing issue of A-Net giving an official endorsement of don’t resurrect your teammates.

Calling Gaile’s personal opinion “official endorsement” is the reason none of us can have nice things. Your inability to distinguish between the two is, to use the word you used, disturbing.

timmyf.1490:

Cirran.1429:

Other than the disturbing issue of A-Net giving an official endorsement of don’t resurrect your teammates.

Calling Gaile’s personal opinion “official endorsement” is the reason none of us can have nice things. Your inability to distinguish between the two is, to use the word you used, disturbing.

LOL, right as always you are entitled to your opinion. If it was just her personal opinion would it not have been better to NOT user her A Net account? That little symbol to the left that none of the players get, gives the appearance of official endorsement. Personal opinion and that symbol don’t go together.

timmyf.1490:

Cirran.1429:

Other than the disturbing issue of A-Net giving an official endorsement of don’t resurrect your teammates.

Calling Gaile’s personal opinion “official endorsement” is the reason none of us can have nice things. Your inability to distinguish between the two is, to use the word you used, disturbing.

She never said nor specified that it was her personal opinion.

There was no IMO, IMHO, nor any other form of designating her comment as her opinion.

Therefore it is being seen as an official endorsement that big events are a license to not res anyone.

It’s obvious that the only way to solve the issue of having people waypoint is to remove dying altogether.

A lot of you are taking this a bit too seriously. Calm down before someone gets upset and the thread gets locked – it’s not worth the aggro!

For once someone from ANet has come out to speak against leeching/dead weight/counterproductive activity and people still find a way to get salty about it.

You guys are too spoiled by your loot pinatas and easy open world content.

Gaile Gray.6029:

For me, “to WP or not to WP” it has next to nothing to do with the loot or the rewards or the daily points. It just has to do with how it feels at any given time, what’s right for my situation, what’s right for the group and the overall objective.

Azrael.4960:

I just make it a point to declare that during Tequatl, Silverwastes, etc. People should not be ressing the fulling dead and that the dead should WP and get back.

And that makes infinite sense to me.

If the continued use of “for me” in this post does not make it clear that it’s Gaile’s opinion, not ArenaNet’s official stance to you, I have lost hope for the users of this forum for good.

sigh…pve’ers discussing the merits of wp’ing.. any of you do wvw? Where there is only 1-4 waypoints on a borderland? And 3 of them have to be built through a long expensive process, now imagine your in a largescale fight and get focused down and die on the south side of the map, have to wp to the citadel and run allllll the way back, hell try it with a guardian or mesmer. Then complain about the kitten 1silver cost and 10second run you do in pve fights.

Cirran.1429:

LOL, right as always you are entitled to your opinion. If it was just her personal opinion would it not have been better to NOT user her A Net account? That little symbol to the left that none of the players get, gives the appearance of official endorsement. Personal opinion and that symbol don’t go together.

Ravion Hawk.4736:

She never said nor specified that it was her personal opinion.

There was no IMO, IMHO, nor any other form of designating her comment as her opinion.

Therefore it is being seen as an official endorsement that big events are a license to not res anyone.

Gaile Gray.6029:

I don’t consider it a walk of shame. I mean, death happens. I have found, though, that if I’m trying to res someone and they suddenly disappear to use the WP, it can be a little disappointing. You know, we were nearly there and poof!

Too, if someone is trying to res me, I feel it can be unmannerly to just up and leave… even though occasionally I do so because I can see they’re risking too much to help out and I want to make sure they don’t incur death because of me. With no repair fees, it’s a little different now and the guilt isn’t quite as high. Still, seeing the ground littered with people who tried to help out is a wee bit embarrassing.

For me, “to WP or not to WP” it has next to nothing to do with the loot or the rewards or the daily points. It just has to do with how it feels at any given time, what’s right for my situation, what’s right for the group and the overall objective.

Azrael.4960:

I just make it a point to declare that during Tequatl, Silverwastes, etc. People should not be ressing the fulling dead and that the dead should WP and get back.

And that makes infinite sense to me.

Quoted for perspective.

If someone is down, it is in everyone’s interest to get that person back up. Won’t take but a second.

If that person is defeated/dead, especially during a major event with a bunch of potentially fatal stuff going on, that person is going to have to waypoint.

Or, sit there being dead in what equates to a giant dunce cap. You’re not going to win any popularity points for upscaling a major event with your defeated face in the dirt.

Nothing Gaile said here indicates that this is an endorsement of just leaving people for dead. There is a time and a place for rez’ing.

There is nothing unreasonable about this.

Ravion Hawk.4736:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Azrael.4960:

I just make it a point to declare that during Tequatl, Silverwastes, etc. People should not be ressing the fulling dead and that the dead should WP and get back.

And that makes infinite sense to me.

Did you seriously just bless this?

You guys at ANet designed this game to be a team effort and took away dedicated Healers/Revivers and gave us ALL the ability to res each other to encourage Team Work.

Now you just threw everyone under the bus since now the “WP if you’re Dead/Don’t res the Dead” group can now say “ANet says so.”

I can not believe you did that.

It’s team work when players contribute to the success of the event. Is being dead and drawing players away from helping the event, when you could have popped to a way point and returned, called contributing? In the vast majority of cases, it is faster to WP and run back to the fight than waiting for someone to res you. Bearing in mind that running and ressing while in combat are significantly slowed down so the “noble soul” who comes to res you is running twice the risk of being taken down while they’re ressing the sorry form lying before them.

When you die in a major group event and you draw players away from it, you are contributing to its failure not success

Dave.2536:

For once someone from ANet has come out to speak against leeching/dead weight/counterproductive activity and people still find a way to get salty about it.

You guys are too spoiled by your loot pinatas and easy open world content.

For some, it isn’t about loot as much as wasting time and effort because people weren’t pulling their weight.

I will not teleport because the wp is far away.

I rather wait till someone resses me up.

eithinan.9841:

sorudo.9054:

i think your kind of player is the exact problem here, if someone has to wait more then 1 minute for someone to res then guess who is really the problem here.

During an event like Teq or THW burn phase, its the person lying around completely down on the ground, the reasons have been explained ad nauseam above.

sorudo.9054:

death happens, just because someone died and waits for someone to res doesn’t make them a leech, don’t think so negative about ppl and start ressing if it bothers you so much.

Yes and I do rez people in the open world if I happen to come across them, but that is not what I am talking about. The discussion was about people lying dead during events waiting for rez and those people who rez them are now not doing DPS. People should help the downed every time unless it will cause them to die during big bosses but not dead.

The FULLY DOWNED should have the consideration for the other players to WP and run back. This is something that really hasnt been brought up much this thread, is how inconsiderate those who sit around waiting for rez are being to everyone else who are contributing to the success of the event.

a dead player is a dead player, we have ress for a reason.
maybe i am one of the odd balls here but i actually help players get back up, it’s called cooperation, look it up when you feel generous for ones…..

sorudo.9054:

eithinan.9841:

sorudo.9054:

i think your kind of player is the exact problem here, if someone has to wait more then 1 minute for someone to res then guess who is really the problem here.

During an event like Teq or THW burn phase, its the person lying around completely down on the ground, the reasons have been explained ad nauseam above.

sorudo.9054:

death happens, just because someone died and waits for someone to res doesn’t make them a leech, don’t think so negative about ppl and start ressing if it bothers you so much.

Yes and I do rez people in the open world if I happen to come across them, but that is not what I am talking about. The discussion was about people lying dead during events waiting for rez and those people who rez them are now not doing DPS. People should help the downed every time unless it will cause them to die during big bosses but not dead.

The FULLY DOWNED should have the consideration for the other players to WP and run back. This is something that really hasnt been brought up much this thread, is how inconsiderate those who sit around waiting for rez are being to everyone else who are contributing to the success of the event.

a dead player is a dead player, we have ress for a reason.
maybe i am one of the odd balls here but i actually help players get back up, it’s called cooperation, look it up when you feel generous for ones…..

Generosity is all well and good. I too race towards defeated players in the field. But try doing that in an event like Triple wurms. The event is structured around every available player pulling their weight. If you go down, people will rush you to get your back up but if you are defeated, you draw a minimum 2 players out of the fight because one is dead and one is ressing. That’s DPS and aggro that you’re losing. Every time someone is defeated in THW, they straight away WP, because they know that they risk drawing ppl away from the fight. Only during very small windows, right before the decap phase, will a commander tell people to res defeated players. If you’re not on the commander when the burn phase starts, you’re going to draw the wurm to you and that will screw the entire final phase and fail the event.

The actions of 1 lazy person can ruin the event for over 100 players.

sorudo.9054:

but i actually help players get back up, it’s called cooperation, look it up when you feel generous for ones…..

Let’s say you’re on an elevator with 12 other people. You see somebody running down the hallway to catch the elevator. Do you hold it?

You might say, “Yes, because I’m generous and nice and you’re a jerk who won’t hold the elevator.”

To which I say, “Sure, but you’re making the decision to delay the elevator for twelve other people. Does their time not also matter?”

Using words like “generous” has no place in this discussion as it is entirely subjective. By ignoring the fight to help a defeated player, you are helping that individual while also hurting the whole group.

Gaile Gray.6029:

I have found, though, that if I’m trying to res someone and they suddenly disappear to use the WP, it can be a little disappointing. You know, we were nearly there and poof!

Too, if someone is trying to res me, I feel it can be unmannerly to just up and leave… even though occasionally I do so because I can see they’re risking too much to help out and I want to make sure they don’t incur death because of me.

I thought so too “Someone is rezzing me, I don’t want to disappoint them” “I’m rezzing someone and they dissapear, how disappointing” – Until I killed about 10 people in wvw who were rezzing me one after the other just because I stayed and wanted to watch the fight. So, I’m always wping now, no matter what. I really like/d that guys and still feel bad for them having been killed because of me although it’s been more than a year (and they never were mad at me).

sorudo.9054:

eithinan.9841:

Yes and I do rez people in the open world if I happen to come across them, but that is not what I am talking about. The discussion was about people lying dead during events waiting for rez and those people who rez them are now not doing DPS. People should help the downed every time unless it will cause them to die during big bosses but not dead.

The FULLY DOWNED should have the consideration for the other players to WP and run back. This is something that really hasnt been brought up much this thread, is how inconsiderate those who sit around waiting for rez are being to everyone else who are contributing to the success of the event.

a dead player is a dead player, we have ress for a reason.
maybe i am one of the odd balls here but i actually help players get back up, it’s called cooperation, look it up when you feel generous for ones…..

When there is no logical argument, resort to insult.

Ya, I am all for rezzing players out in the PvE field, and do so all the time, including at events and champs and all that. However, I also believe that at certain events, like VW, Teq, Grenth, etc, you either need to keep up DPS or you run a WAY higher risk of your own toon getting creamed if you help a fully downed player. I always will rez if someone is downed but not dead, as that takes a mere couple seconds, and only if they are right beside me. If I start to rez and notice the player is fully dead I stop the rez right away.

If I’m fully dead I will WP even if someone starts to rez me right away. But that’s just me. I fully know that many will just lay there. I can cry about it, or I can keep doing my part and hope that the event doesn’t fail.

Because WP cost money, I don’t think ANet can implement an auto WP unless it’s free. Some players will not have enough money (could happen), so if there is a charge, then what? You have to think it through to logical conclusion. Charging a fee on forced WP is not going to fly.

Ravion Hawk.4736:

timmyf.1490:

Cirran.1429:

Other than the disturbing issue of A-Net giving an official endorsement of don’t resurrect your teammates.

Calling Gaile’s personal opinion “official endorsement” is the reason none of us can have nice things. Your inability to distinguish between the two is, to use the word you used, disturbing.

She never said nor specified that it was her personal opinion.

There was no IMO, IMHO, nor any other form of designating her comment as her opinion.

Therefore it is being seen as an official endorsement that big events are a license to not res anyone.

I might be inclined to agree with you except for the fact that we do not need a license to not res anyone, big event or otherwise.

runeblade.7514:

I will not teleport because the wp is far away.

I rather wait till someone resses me up.

You’re why other players die at events such as Teq and THW. No one in this thread cares about shoddy farm events in places like weeniefail (I will never refer to the human starting area by it’s proper name). Most of us are talking about events where excessive numbers of dead people refusing to waypoint is actually detrimental to the event’s odds of success.

• Tequatl: takes 60 seconds WITHOUT swiftness and gap closers or jump pads to get back to the fight. 30 seconds or so if they were used. Too far away you say? Guess you wont get a res.
• Amber Wurm Head: 30 seconds without any movement assists. Half that with. Hard to see how that’s too far away.
• Cobalt Wurm Head: Basically the same as Amber. Still not too far away.
• Crimson Wurm Head: Bit longer than either of the others, but STILL not too far away.

• Breach: You die, waypoint. We dont have time to pick you up. EOD.
• Vinewrath: Sure, this one can be seen as “too far,” but even if on win/fail against the champions, if you die in the first 60 seconds, you arent being picked back up. Run your behind back from the waypoint, and you’ll be able to assist one of the other two lanes in their defense. Die outside the champ fights? I’d probably waypoint even then because the only way you’re getting picked up is if there’s enough people in your lane to take care of the defense and have some to spare to help rez people. If there isnt enough in the lane for that, you’re going to be sitting dead for quite a while. The only reason it’d be alright to stay dead and wait for a rez at vinewrath is if you died with less than 30 seconds to go on the champion fight. If it’s the final champ, you either get dumped outside your lane on a fail, stay there on a succeed, or everyone’s dead in the first place because you failed and had no more carriers.

In the context of Teq, THW, and Silverwastes, the phrase “waypoint is too far” is an excuse for the lazy.

sorudo.9054:

a dead player is a dead player, we have ress for a reason.
maybe i am one of the odd balls here but i actually help players get back up, it’s called cooperation, look it up when you feel generous for ones…..

Nope in vinewrath second boss trasher;
– a downed person can be rezzed without too much risk.
– a dead person can’t be rezzed without putting you at high risk with pustule damage, trasher attack & vinewrath special.

I’m all for rezzing downed people if possible but rezzing dead people during a tense fight is just impossible or way to risky for one simple reason; it’s 5 time longer.
That’s the difference.

Aidan Savage.2078:

You’re why other players die at events such as Teq and THW. No one in this thread cares about shoddy farm events in places like weeniefail (I will never refer to the human starting area by it’s proper name). Most of us are talking about events where excessive numbers of dead people refusing to waypoint is actually detrimental to the event’s odds of success.

Good, I’m counting on it. If they refuse to take 5 seconds to res me from downed state, then they can die.

• Tequatl: takes 60 seconds WITHOUT swiftness and gap closers or jump pads to get back to the fight. 30 seconds or so if they were used. Too far away you say? Guess you wont get a res.
• Amber Wurm Head: 30 seconds without any movement assists. Half that with. Hard to see how that’s too far away.
• Cobalt Wurm Head: Basically the same as Amber. Still not too far away.
• Crimson Wurm Head: Bit longer than either of the others, but STILL not too far away.

• Breach: You die, waypoint. We dont have time to pick you up. EOD.
• Vinewrath: Sure, this one can be seen as “too far,” but even if on win/fail against the champions, if you die in the first 60 seconds, you arent being picked back up. Run your behind back from the waypoint, and you’ll be able to assist one of the other two lanes in their defense. Die outside the champ fights? I’d probably waypoint even then because the only way you’re getting picked up is if there’s enough people in your lane to take care of the defense and have some to spare to help rez people. If there isnt enough in the lane for that, you’re going to be sitting dead for quite a while. The only reason it’d be alright to stay dead and wait for a rez at vinewrath is if you died with less than 30 seconds to go on the champion fight. If it’s the final champ, you either get dumped outside your lane on a fail, stay there on a succeed, or everyone’s dead in the first place because you failed and had no more carriers.

In the context of Teq, THW, and Silverwastes, the phrase “waypoint is too far” is an excuse for the lazy.

vs. a 5 second res from down state.

I refuse to walk literally 60 seconds from the wp to the boss because the zerg doesn’t feel like ressing me. Another alternative if ANet add a wp 5 seconds away from the boss. Then I would wp.

runeblade.7514:

vs. a 5 second res from down state.

How many times do people have to state it’s about ressing people from full dead state?

runeblade.7514:

I refuse to walk literally 60 seconds from the wp to the boss because the zerg doesn’t feel like ressing me. Another alternative if ANet add a wp 5 seconds away from the boss. Then I would wp.

Not sure I get this.

You would rather lie there and do nothing than take care of yourself ? You will actually choose to do nothing at all if other people dont give up doing what they want in order to take care of your character for you ?

runeblade.7514:

Aidan Savage.2078:

You’re why other players die at events such as Teq and THW. No one in this thread cares about shoddy farm events in places like weeniefail (I will never refer to the human starting area by it’s proper name). Most of us are talking about events where excessive numbers of dead people refusing to waypoint is actually detrimental to the event’s odds of success.

Good, I’m counting on it. If they refuse to take 5 seconds to res me from downed state, then they can die.

• Tequatl: takes 60 seconds WITHOUT swiftness and gap closers or jump pads to get back to the fight. 30 seconds or so if they were used. Too far away you say? Guess you wont get a res.
• Amber Wurm Head: 30 seconds without any movement assists. Half that with. Hard to see how that’s too far away.
• Cobalt Wurm Head: Basically the same as Amber. Still not too far away.
• Crimson Wurm Head: Bit longer than either of the others, but STILL not too far away.

• Breach: You die, waypoint. We dont have time to pick you up. EOD.
• Vinewrath: Sure, this one can be seen as “too far,” but even if on win/fail against the champions, if you die in the first 60 seconds, you arent being picked back up. Run your behind back from the waypoint, and you’ll be able to assist one of the other two lanes in their defense. Die outside the champ fights? I’d probably waypoint even then because the only way you’re getting picked up is if there’s enough people in your lane to take care of the defense and have some to spare to help rez people. If there isnt enough in the lane for that, you’re going to be sitting dead for quite a while. The only reason it’d be alright to stay dead and wait for a rez at vinewrath is if you died with less than 30 seconds to go on the champion fight. If it’s the final champ, you either get dumped outside your lane on a fail, stay there on a succeed, or everyone’s dead in the first place because you failed and had no more carriers.

In the context of Teq, THW, and Silverwastes, the phrase “waypoint is too far” is an excuse for the lazy.

vs. a 5 second res from down state.

I refuse to walk literally 60 seconds from the wp to the boss because the zerg doesn’t feel like ressing me. Another alternative if ANet add a wp 5 seconds away from the boss. Then I would wp.

(Probably gonna get an infraction for this but it’ll be worth it)

In case you forgot to read, we’re talking about defeated state not downed state. Commanders always tell people to res Downed players but not Defeated players. However, if you’re the sort of player that expects others to res you from defeated then I’ll make sure you’re on my list so I can tell people to look out for you in case you die and make sure you stay defeated, because when I’m commanding and I see people like yourself, there are only 2 words for it: Dead weight.

Lazaar.9123:

runeblade.7514:

vs. a 5 second res from down state.

How many times do people have to state it’s about ressing people from full dead state?

How do I get to a full dead state?

Thats right, I go through the downed state.

Azrael.4960:

runeblade.7514:

Aidan Savage.2078:

You’re why other players die at events such as Teq and THW. No one in this thread cares about shoddy farm events in places like weeniefail (I will never refer to the human starting area by it’s proper name). Most of us are talking about events where excessive numbers of dead people refusing to waypoint is actually detrimental to the event’s odds of success.

Good, I’m counting on it. If they refuse to take 5 seconds to res me from downed state, then they can die.

• Tequatl: takes 60 seconds WITHOUT swiftness and gap closers or jump pads to get back to the fight. 30 seconds or so if they were used. Too far away you say? Guess you wont get a res.
• Amber Wurm Head: 30 seconds without any movement assists. Half that with. Hard to see how that’s too far away.
• Cobalt Wurm Head: Basically the same as Amber. Still not too far away.
• Crimson Wurm Head: Bit longer than either of the others, but STILL not too far away.

• Breach: You die, waypoint. We dont have time to pick you up. EOD.
• Vinewrath: Sure, this one can be seen as “too far,” but even if on win/fail against the champions, if you die in the first 60 seconds, you arent being picked back up. Run your behind back from the waypoint, and you’ll be able to assist one of the other two lanes in their defense. Die outside the champ fights? I’d probably waypoint even then because the only way you’re getting picked up is if there’s enough people in your lane to take care of the defense and have some to spare to help rez people. If there isnt enough in the lane for that, you’re going to be sitting dead for quite a while. The only reason it’d be alright to stay dead and wait for a rez at vinewrath is if you died with less than 30 seconds to go on the champion fight. If it’s the final champ, you either get dumped outside your lane on a fail, stay there on a succeed, or everyone’s dead in the first place because you failed and had no more carriers.

In the context of Teq, THW, and Silverwastes, the phrase “waypoint is too far” is an excuse for the lazy.

vs. a 5 second res from down state.

I refuse to walk literally 60 seconds from the wp to the boss because the zerg doesn’t feel like ressing me. Another alternative if ANet add a wp 5 seconds away from the boss. Then I would wp.

(Probably gonna get an infraction for this but it’ll be worth it)

In case you forgot to read, we’re talking about defeated state not downed state. Commanders always tell people to res Downed players but not Defeated players. However, if you’re the sort of player that expects others to res you from defeated then I’ll make sure you’re on my list so I can tell people to look out for you in case you die and make sure you stay defeated, because when I’m commanding and I see people like yourself, there are only 2 words for it: Dead weight.

This is why I don’t wp.

People like you are incredibly rude to not res and then blame the victim. If my corpse causes people to fail the run, then good. I hope that whenever you are leading the zerg and you demand the zerg to not res me, your raids would fail every time.

Ashen.2907:

runeblade.7514:

I refuse to walk literally 60 seconds from the wp to the boss because the zerg doesn’t feel like ressing me. Another alternative if ANet add a wp 5 seconds away from the boss. Then I would wp.

Not sure I get this.

You would rather lie there and do nothing than take care of yourself ? You will actually choose to do nothing at all if other people dont give up doing what they want in order to take care of your character for you ?

I rather ANet put a WP 5 seconds away from the boss so that no one is inconvenienced at all.

In a literal sense, 60 seconds is a pretty long walk especially when you have to stare at the computer so that you won’t hit the obstacles. I rather avoid that.

runeblade.7514:

Ashen.2907:

runeblade.7514:

I refuse to walk literally 60 seconds from the wp to the boss because the zerg doesn’t feel like ressing me. Another alternative if ANet add a wp 5 seconds away from the boss. Then I would wp.

Not sure I get this.

You would rather lie there and do nothing than take care of yourself ? You will actually choose to do nothing at all if other people dont give up doing what they want in order to take care of your character for you ?

I rather ANet put a WP 5 seconds away from the boss so that no one is inconvenienced at all.

In a literal sense, 60 seconds is a pretty long walk especially when you have to stare at the computer so that you won’t hit the obstacles. I rather avoid that.

Not going to lie, that sounds like selfishness diluted with alot of lazy.

Plenty of people in this thread pointed out how ressing a dead person was detrimental but the main things were:

• Takes way longer to res the dead than a downed player.
• Takes away from DPS in addition to the dead DPS which means the fight will last longer, meaning higher chance of failure.
• Very little excuse due to inconsequential WP charge and distance from event.

And another thing I want to point out is that the way this game is designed, player characters are designed to be self-sufficient with the capacity to provide some form of support. But the support rarely synergizes enough with the other parts of combat to make any added difference leaving more DPS as one of the more efficient methods. The point is if you die it is all on you.

It isn’t about elitist’s gold/sec like you assumed. More people are more concerned with the time and effort they’ve put into big events.

Here is the last point I am going to say to you: Nothing wastes time and effort in this game like a bunch of corpses on the ground.

The reason why is this:

1.) When one player refuses to waypoint, the only ones attempting to res them are good Samaritans and people who believe that they won’t get downed during the attempt. But things like ressing and healing can draw aggro and make it more likely that a ranged attack will target you. I believe it takes ~25 seconds for a single player to res a dead player in combat. With max number (I believe 5) all in combat, 5-10 seconds.

With downed players it takes, ~5 seconds for one player to res and it is nearly instantaneous with 3. Another thing is that a downed person can also add to the ressing meaning that a max of 6 players are ressing at once. That is why downed takes priority over dead.

2.) If the ressers are targeted by a ranged attack, a boss will quickly down them unless they manage to free themselves and avoid it. Otherwise, worst case scenario is that there are now 5 downed and one still dead. 5 players are now providing severely reduced DPS until they get ressed. Otherwise, worst case scenerio is there are now 6 corpses all taking up an area that could be used to drop support items.

3.) With a lower number of targets, damage and aggro is not as thinly spread as it was and is more concentrated on those who are still alive which reduces survivability for the players and lower the chance of it succeeding.

4.) If players continue to die and not waypoint, morale begins to fall aswell. Seeing a high number of downed symbols on the map can make people feel uncomfortable but seeing alot of dead player markers on the map is a cause for concern especially if the number keeps growing. Once morale drops enough people start leaving.

5.) If a noticeable amount of players start leaving, the rest will follow seeing as it is a failing event. Unless the few players present manage to pull it off, the event will fail and rewards will be reduced for everyone. All that time and effort for only 50% of the event’s XP for everyone involved.

This is all worst-case scenario, yet it happens so often. A group can completely avoid this scenario, however, if they waypointed once they died (or just not die at all) and ran back. The 2 silver and 30 seconds is nothing compared to the duration of the event x the # of players participating.

Schumi.4285:

Novuake.2691:

Schumi.4285:

Yep and because of that, scaling is not the problem. But lots of other things are! See above!

People will be people. Larger events, Vinewrath included, hardly ever fail.
So no problem.

Have you been lately in silver wastes at around 5-6pm on Sundays? When all the casual gamers are on. On a non-organized server? You can see a lot of failures there.
I have seen like 10-20 ppl lying around not WPing during boss 2 fight in one single try (most of them dead within the first 120 seconds of the fight).
And like 3 vw event fails in a row. Maybe you were lucky with your servers…

Arguing that events hardly fail is btw not solving the issue of the discussion here, it’s more not wanting to accept other arguments.

>>People in my neighborhood almost never die of hunger so there is no hunger/poverty problem on this earth and no need to change anything.
People will be people.<<
Do you see the flaw in this argumentation?

Do you see the comparison your making? Hyperbolic and inappropriate much…

Point is, why should an event be easy?
Why should it just succeed when people just die and lie there? As punishment it SHOULD fail in my opinion…

If ArenaNet wanted to do something simple, simply hide the ability to revive dead players while you are in combat. Either disable it entirely, or make them only revivable if you specifically click on them. This would fix the problem of dead people camping on interactables. Alternatively, if ArenaNet wanted to make it casual friendly, simply disable reviving and add an automatic ~30s respawn to a special waypoint near the event that is only active for that event. The perfect solution would be to actually have a contribution system that mattered, but that is nearly impossible to implement right as there are things that simply can’t be measured.

For people complaining about Gaile’s response, here’s an actual dev saying it, one of the people who actually designs the larger events:

http://youtu.be/NuYE77UW3js

13:22, 24:41, 29:18

Novuake.2691:

Why should it just succeed when people just die and lie there? As punishment it SHOULD fail in my opinion…

Except only the people who were trying are being punished. The people leeching don’t care if it succeeds or not because what they get is just a bonus. They had no intention of trying either way. If the event is a guaranteed failure, they’ll just hop to a new one.

If you remove all those players, could it have succeeded? If the minimum requirements were met and depending on the difference in scale, probably, yes.

Although scaling is a great plus, other people can forcibly cause you to fail. So, why should you be punished for putting in 100x the effort and why should they receive the same rewards as you when they did nothing?

aspirine.6852:

Being bad? That is pretty dumb to call people bad when they die. Ever heard of suicide attacks in wvw, or taking one for the team/server?

You are aware this is about PvE right? You know those “special” spots people like to huddle in, for example the sides on Jormag, the box near the Mark 2, the higher platform near the fire elemental, etc? If you die on these events, especially in those spots, you’re going to look like a bad player.

The only people who would notice you doing the “walk of shame” are other people doing the same thing, which means they have nothing to scoff about. I can assure you that people doing events like Tequatl or temple events, etc, are far too busy focusing on the event itself and trying to find their cursor in a sea of special effects, to be bothered to notice anyone walking back to their general vicinity from a WP. And if they did notice you, they’re more likely to applaud you for WP-ing and coming back rather than lying around dead, as opposed to scorning you or thinking badly of you.

Lying around dead is much more shameful.

I think the only time I lay dead at temples is for Grenth when I see we’re about to win a phase and can be picked up between them. Because that is one heck of a walk from Shank Anchorage . . .

Its just open world content…. just whip out your bearbow and auto attack while watching TV. No teamwork required.

rename the thread to “waypoint of shame” the “walk of shame” is for something totally different.

More like “Shamelessly laying dead during a Boss event instead of WP”

runeblade.7514:

How do I get to a full dead state?

Thats right, I go through the downed state.

While this thread is aimed at defeated players not waypointing, I do agree that there is also a big problem with players not helping downed players.

I am seeing it more and more in all aspects of the game. I’ve even seen players standing next to downed players, doing absolutely nothing to help them when there is little or no risk involved, and then proceed to shout at them in chat saying things like ‘WP your lazy kitten ’ when they get defeated! There is laziness on both sides of the defeated state.

The bad players need to wake up and realise that getting players back in the fight sooner is better then making them waste time running from a WP. The more players can contribute the better it is for everyone. If it is possible to do so, I will always opt for a 5 second rally over a 60 second WP run, as it means that player can contribute to the group effort more.

There are of course bad players who get defeated, without hope of a rally, and then just lay there waiting for a res, and this is not a good thing. I do agree they should WP or be auto WP’d. Sometimes defeat is unavoidable and there needs to be something in place to prevent players from being lazy. But ignoring downed players is also a major problem that needs to be addressed.

A fix for one should be accompanied by a fix for the other, because they are both contributing factors to the overall issue.

Why not just shunt dead players to the closest WP after a short timer? Not a forced WP use (whether free or payable), just move the body to the WP. That way, people there can either revive you, away from the battle so that you’re not interfering with the actual fight, or you can use the waypoint whose cost is now effectively minimized since you’re sitting on top of it.

runeblade.7514:

Good, I’m counting on it. If they refuse to take 5 seconds to res me from downed state, then they can die.

vs. a 5 second res from down state.

I refuse to walk literally 60 seconds from the wp to the boss because the zerg doesn’t feel like ressing me. Another alternative if ANet add a wp 5 seconds away from the boss. Then I would wp.

If you died from downed state, dont be blaming others for not rezzing you. If any of you have been to teq, you know there are situations where it’s frankly impossible to pick you up. For example, if you’re in a poison field away from the main zerg, and I cant reach you from the edge, I’m not walking into the poison field to die for you. You can pray you live through the poison field or start getting ready to waypoint. Go down in the main zerg? Odds are you’ll get revived if someone’s paying attention. The few times you’ll be fully dead before someone revives you is if it’s multiple poison fields and you basically splatter into a corpse.

Frankly, you’re also not comprehending the difference between the two, so I’m going to make this short: if you’re downed, people will pick you up if it’s safe to. If it’s not safe to? Well, tough kitten there, you’re going to be waypointing if someone’s not dropping a banner or the hazard goes away and it becomes safe. If you’re dead? You’re a waste of our time, your time, and overall DPS by continuing to sit there because the game does not differentiate between your lifeless corpse and someone who was downed.

That is as simple as it gets for those big events. If you cant comprehend that, frankly I wouldnt pick you up from downed state either.

Tangent: I was just at a VW and the south lane had 80% of the people on the map at it. it failed, then all those people bailed on the event leaving south a mess with 2 champs and tons of mobs. I shifted from north to find no more than 7 people trying to contend with those champs and escort the siege carrier. The map ended up succeeding on the event because we taxi’d people in who wanted to participate but it was close.

This tells me that there is an issue with GW2 and the open world event content that really needs to be addressed. This added a whole other level of complexity to the fight that completely draws someone out of the gaming experience. I don’t care how hard content is but this is breaking the 4th wall and all that.

papry.8096:

More like “Shamelessly laying dead during a Boss event instead of WP”

Yesterday I died at the Vinewraith event, at the north lane. I died to kill an elite troll that was getting at the arrowcarts, and it went down within 2 seconds of me. There was an immediate lull in the fighting. I spun the camera and couldn’t see a mordrem, and there were four other players around the arrowcarts. So I lay there a couple of seconds, and the other guys started moving in various directions then realised there was nothing to do. So they ressed me to save the walk. Which they did, without problems, and I was back on an arrowcart when the fighting restarted moments later.

Now this, I think, is about the only circumstance under which you shouldn’t waypoint — the rare occasion when it’s quicker and no risk to do a full res.

But I felt really dirty.

A big annoyance issue for me is that with rezzing the dead is that when the bodies pile up, the rez-targeting should always pick the downed players first and then the fully dead players (unless specifically targeted).

timmyf.1490:

sorudo.9054:

but i actually help players get back up, it’s called cooperation, look it up when you feel generous for ones…..

Let’s say you’re on an elevator with 12 other people. You see somebody running down the hallway to catch the elevator. Do you hold it?

You might say, “Yes, because I’m generous and nice and you’re a jerk who won’t hold the elevator.”

To which I say, “Sure, but you’re making the decision to delay the elevator for twelve other people. Does their time not also matter?”

Using words like “generous” has no place in this discussion as it is entirely subjective. By ignoring the fight to help a defeated player, you are helping that individual while also hurting the whole group.

if an event is build on “everyone pulling their weight” then i seriously doubt it’s the problem of one single player, it’s more likely the event is simply not designed properly.
seriously, if one player, just ONE single player, hurts the entire even, i will simply say “suck it” and leave.

it’s the problem of even scaling, not players kittens a player.
it’s one player less for about 15-20 second and 2 more players hence forth, that’s a win-win in my mind.

Hardly an issue eithinan. I dont see how the VW fight is that different than the fight we had against Marionette a year and some change ago. In fact, it’s kitten near identical. You have multiple lanes that need to be defended (3 instead of 5), you have objectives that need to be defended (carriers instead of gates), and once certain thresholds are achieved, you have a fight against a “miniboss” in the central arena (3 “single” bosses instead of the 5 groups of… 4? bosses), once all the minibosses are defeated, the boss itself was defeated.

Plus it’s kinda hard to see how it’s solely the fault of the content too. I mean, sure the enemies have gimmicks, and have disgustingly high health totals even with 5 people there (yes, I mean you, god kitten champ thrasher). But the entire premise of the event is simple. Defend your carrier through brute force, siege equipment, and air strikes (which I’ve seen few people use constantly), and once your carrier reaches the final wall, go in and fight your boss without failing miserably.

Artaz is pretty much reiterating the point most of us are trying to get others to understand. The game makes no difference between someone dead or downed. The other reason we want people to waypoint if they die is so that you are not in our way of reviving the downed. We’re all various levels of “sorry” that you died, but… you died and your importance for reviving just dropped to the bottom of the list to tie for last place with other dead people. Hell, if it’s the zerg commander that dies, instead of picking them up, I’ll temporarily take their spot as a commander and lead until they waypoint, run back, and are able to resume command. Far more efficient that way.

Aidan Savage.2078:

The other reason we want people to waypoint if they die is so that you are not in our way of reviving the downed.

Totally agree with this. I think the game should prioritize these kinds of things better. If two players are in range, downed should be available first.

sorudo.9054:

if an event is build on “everyone pulling their weight” then i seriously doubt it’s the problem of one single player, it’s more likely the event is simply not designed properly.
seriously, if one player, just ONE single player, hurts the entire even, i will simply say “suck it” and leave.

it’s the problem of even scaling, not players kittens a player.
it’s one player less for about 15-20 second and 2 more players hence forth, that’s a win-win in my mind.

What you’re describing is called a “collective action problem.” You are correct that JUST ONE player behaving this way isn’t a problem. But when 20 or 30 people decide to be THE ONE PLAYER, you have a problem.

Collective Action problems are typically solved by strongly condemning the individual actors and exposing the self-centered action, something you’ll see done appropriately in map chat at these events.

Note that the self-centered action I speak of here is being defeated and not waypointing.

Gaile Gray.6029:

I don’t consider it a walk of shame. I mean, death happens. I have found, though, that if I’m trying to res someone and they suddenly disappear to use the WP, it can be a little disappointing. You know, we were nearly there and poof!

Too, if someone is trying to res me, I feel it can be unmannerly to just up and leave… even though occasionally I do so because I can see they’re risking too much to help out and I want to make sure they don’t incur death because of me. With no repair fees, it’s a little different now and the guilt isn’t quite as high. Still, seeing the ground littered with people who tried to help out is a wee bit embarrassing.

For me, “to WP or not to WP” it has next to nothing to do with the loot or the rewards or the daily points. It just has to do with how it feels at any given time, what’s right for my situation, what’s right for the group and the overall objective.

Azrael.4960:

I just make it a point to declare that during Tequatl, Silverwastes, etc. People should not be ressing the fulling dead and that the dead should WP and get back.

And that makes infinite sense to me.

The issue is why should 70% of the event populous put the effort in to get a successful completion and reward and the other 30% be allowed to lay dead for the whole event and then get the same reward as those who had to do it for them… that is of course if there is enough contributing players left to gain a successful completion.

ANET implement nothing to combat it and worse still you actually design content that promotes it , just like you encourage failing events to be more lucrative than actually succeeding them.. its completely comical that you see no real issues with it.

There should be a forced timer when dead.. 1min or you get booted back out to your home instance and loose your reward and locked out from map instance.
That way players will have to contribute in order to not waste their own time and get their loots.. but that concept or something similar is far to tasking on the creative think tank it seems!

Dave.2536:

AFK leechers (perhaps you are one of them given your unnecessarily strong reaction) and the current tagging system that emphasizes quantity over quality are the reason this game can’t get new content that isn’t a massive loot pinata.

…
This makes zero sense.

Sariel V.7024:

Dave.2536:

AFK leechers (perhaps you are one of them given your unnecessarily strong reaction) and the current tagging system that emphasizes quantity over quality are the reason this game can’t get new content that isn’t a massive loot pinata.

…
This makes zero sense.

The content can’t be harder because 30-40% of the population will just play Staff Guardian and spam 1 to get as many tags – and therefore as much loot – as possible. Truly challenging open world content which requires massive coordination from all, like Triple Trouble, will be ignored (unless you are a guild large enough to do it yourself) because it fails when these people show up.

And, sadly, they will show up for any event that’s a part of the world boss train.