Guild Wars 2

Orpheal.8263:

@Pax:

lol 100 Stack Condition Cap..
About what do you dream at nights??, if this seriously was meant as a serious wish..
Besides of that, ANet has already mentioned mutiple times over the past years, that the current Stack Number of 25 is a TECHNICAL LIMIT for the game.
The game simply can’t handle more stacks higher than 25. Point.
Thats why I suggested some long time ago to change the Condition System into a mechanic, that uses multiple TIERS of Conditions, so that if you apply a condition to a target like a World Boss, that easiyl gets 25 stacks of all conditions from the pure mass of players bombarding it with tons of conditions every second, the game would recognize this them and at the moment where Tier 1 of a Condition gets to 25 Stacks, the Condition changes to TIER 2 of it, resets the counter to 1 Stack and of that Tier 2 Condition and from that point on it becomes harder to increase the Stacks to higher Tier 2 Stacks.

Each Condition easily could have say maximum 3 Tiers of its Condition where 25 Stacks of Tier 3 would be enough.
its a system, that wold be simply unreachable for players in PvP and WvW, but it would perfectly make Condition Builds useful for PvE, where World Bosses have millions of health and are pure damage sponges…

Bleedign as Tier 1 Condition for example could have this:

Tier 2 = Deep Wound = increases the speed of Bleeding by 20% and decreases the Max Health of the Target by 20%

Tier 3 = Hemorrhage = increases the Condition Damage of the Bleeding by 25%

It would be a simple system to impriove the Condition System to make it useful for PvE, so that fighting in large battles with alot of Condition Builds would make also SENSE, where you don’t lose out your DPS as a Condition Build, where Critical Hit builds are in advantage, cause their damage system doesn’t make you obsolete, if there are already hundreds of other crit build players around you.

Simply raising only, if it would be technical possible the Condition Stack Cap from 25 to 100 would solve absolutely nothing at all. It would postpone the real problem only a tiny bit.

they were testing condi cap removal in HoT, the stress tests had no limit, or perhaps it was a high one.

really?

There has been nothign officially so far about that, or I haven’t see that postign yet, that Anet did something like that or is planning maybe to increase the cap and therefore make a stress test about this in HoT.
If there is anythign officialyl about that, could you link me the thread/postign please. I would like to read it. Thanks in advance.

PS< or does exist perhaps a video about this, there was no NDA for the stress test, so maybe someone has made a video about this condi cap ioncrease stress test???

The last officially I know was just that ANet devs self said, that they can#t raise it, due to technical limitations…however, we all know, that technical limitations could be overcome maybe somewhen when the technical resosurces ect get improved over time… so even if a increased condi cap would postpone only the real problem, for small scale battles it would naturally be a direct help without having something extra ordinary as a more effectful solution, like tiering the conditions up into several tiers.

Orpheal.8263:

really?

There has been nothign officially so far about that, or I haven’t see that postign yet, that Anet did something like that or is planning maybe to increase the cap and therefore make a stress test about this in HoT.
If there is anythign officialyl about that, could you link me the thread/postign please. I would like to read it. Thanks in advance.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Increased-Bleeding-Stacks/first#post4916628

Oh, thanks for the super quick reply.

Interesting… nom nom nom

mando.2730:

As an experiment, I would like to suggest this to everyone: Next time you do some dungeon runs in a full zerker party, any time someone goes down, let them die. Or if they rally, have them leave the fight/area completely, and see how that affects your run. Now try it again, but with a more balanced party composition and see how you go. I tried this earlier today with a group (did AC, CoF and HoTW), and the zerker runs were far more painful than the runs with a more balanced group. All of a sudden, we had a real need to run less glassy builds, and we actually had a couple players specced for power/healing, and a couple specced for tank/condi/boons, and one for dps (but slightly less squishy).

Just a nice little experiment, which improved my experience a whole lot. Of course, put the downed state back in there and we can just zerker our way through picking people up as they go down.

I solo/duo dungeons so I’m not sure how that would affect me at all.

mando.2730:

As an experiment, I would like to suggest this to everyone: Next time you do some dungeon runs in a full zerker party, any time someone goes down, let them die. Or if they rally, have them leave the fight/area completely, and see how that affects your run. Now try it again, but with a more balanced party composition and see how you go. I tried this earlier today with a group (did AC, CoF and HoTW), and the zerker runs were far more painful than the runs with a more balanced group. All of a sudden, we had a real need to run less glassy builds, and we actually had a couple players specced for power/healing, and a couple specced for tank/condi/boons, and one for dps (but slightly less squishy).

Just a nice little experiment, which improved my experience a whole lot. Of course, put the downed state back in there and we can just zerker our way through picking people up as they go down.

This is far more complicated than you think.
It’s about how good the team works together, how good the people know their classes, the dungeons/fractals whatever. If people just smash buttons, the party will fail, no matter whether or not someone is specced into healing.
The safest bet is that you chose a build in which you can survive most stuff on your own, without having anyone to care for you. In my case that’s zerker or valk/zerker with some defensive traits. In a good group I can go full full zerkers. And actually our high fractal runs are more succesful when our heal guard isn’t around, our zerker guard can heal as well, but in the end my own healing is usually enough.

warbignime.4610:

LOL, flying mounts and open world PvP does not affect community? I am laughing so hard , man you know nothing about how MMO community works. Flying mounts cause players to fly on different attitude which reduce the amount of player you see and cause communication much more difficult. Open world PvP caused nothing but hatred between Alliance and Horde , I remember the first time I play WoW, a zerg of high level Alliance just killed all the low level quest NPCs over and over. Mechanic like this caused terrible community of WoW , say it’s caused by elitist is pretty Mich pure BS.

Flying mounts (lack of) don’t effect how players behave towards each other in-game. All it does is cause arguments on the forums between those that want flying and those that don’t. The game mechanics of flying mounts does not cause anti-social behaviour.

Open world PvP, there’s nothing wrong with open world PvP as a game mechanic it’s how it’s been implemented in WoW. Resentment tends to be fostered in that game. Imbalance is classes (class traits, human being the latest or at least was). High level players killing low level players, high level players killing NPCs (including quest givers) repeatedly. There’s a lot of hatred in the community in WoW and a lot of it is due to the way the game mechanics has been implemented, resulting in the way players can and do behave towards each other.

When they made GW2 they recognised that game mechanics leads to the way players behave towards each other, which is why they made the game the way they did. Although was surprised they left aggro dragging, but then again in as far as aggro dragging goes it can make things interesting sometimes having to deal with extra mobs.

Elitists divide communities, so does poor game mechanics as does competition. But of course you also get a small part of any community that just likes to grief others and will do so if the game mechanics allows them to do so.

But from what you’ve replied with previously I wouldn’t expect you to understand that.

mando.2730:

As an experiment, I would like to suggest this to everyone: Next time you do some dungeon runs in a full zerker party, any time someone goes down, let them die. Or if they rally, have them leave the fight/area completely, and see how that affects your run. Now try it again, but with a more balanced party composition and see how you go. I tried this earlier today with a group (did AC, CoF and HoTW), and the zerker runs were far more painful than the runs with a more balanced group. All of a sudden, we had a real need to run less glassy builds, and we actually had a couple players specced for power/healing, and a couple specced for tank/condi/boons, and one for dps (but slightly less squishy).

Just a nice little experiment, which improved my experience a whole lot. Of course, put the downed state back in there and we can just zerker our way through picking people up as they go down.

While i agree with most of your observations, this game, any game, will develop player adopted tactics to achieve a win state. Unless Arena changed the fight dynamics every couple of months, i just don’t see how stat changes would prevent these optimal builds and preferred professions from being prevalent.

munkiman.3068:

mando.2730:

As an experiment, I would like to suggest this to everyone: Next time you do some dungeon runs in a full zerker party, any time someone goes down, let them die. Or if they rally, have them leave the fight/area completely, and see how that affects your run. Now try it again, but with a more balanced party composition and see how you go. I tried this earlier today with a group (did AC, CoF and HoTW), and the zerker runs were far more painful than the runs with a more balanced group. All of a sudden, we had a real need to run less glassy builds, and we actually had a couple players specced for power/healing, and a couple specced for tank/condi/boons, and one for dps (but slightly less squishy).

Just a nice little experiment, which improved my experience a whole lot. Of course, put the downed state back in there and we can just zerker our way through picking people up as they go down.

While i agree with most of your observations, this game, any game, will develop player adopted tactics to achieve a win state. Unless Arena changed the fight dynamics every couple of months, i just don’t see how stat changes would prevent these optimal builds and preferred professions from being prevalent.

Yeah, the funny part is these same players will go out of the way to make the game easier for themselves then complain that the game is too easy.

mando.2730:

maddoctor.2738:

Don’t try to make the game what it is not, and will never be. Tanks and Healers have no place here by design

It seems like bad design that healing power and toughness/vitality are stats, yet there is no place for tanks or healers. What is the point in having these stats (especially healing power), if healing has no place?

Ah, but they do have a place, even in PvE. Just because a minority(!) of dungeon groups require glass gear does not mean the other gear has no place in the game. In other games’ trait systems, there are an awful lot of traits that don’t get used in high-end dungeons/raids. Does that mean no one uses these traits, or that they have no place? People act like dungeons are the be-all and end-all arbiter of what PvE is all about. They aren’t.

They should make so you can only rally from champs or legendary mobs. Suddenly dungeons are harder and less forgiving. For spvp the downed state is not a big problem because you can’t kill a player as easily as a trash mob.

Five pages of “Zerker parties need consequences”

when any change to the “all damage, no defense” will eventually just make a new meta with the smallest amount of (insert useless stat here) in exchange for (insert damage stat here)?

Or, heaven forbid, cause the players to just get better at not dying?

You cant nerf minmaxing.

mando.2730:

maddoctor.2738:

Don’t try to make the game what it is not, and will never be. Tanks and Healers have no place here by design

It seems like bad design that healing power and toughness/vitality are stats, yet there is no place for tanks or healers. What is the point in having these stats (especially healing power), if healing has no place?

This is from a little while back, but I think it’s interesting to examine the difference between the three defensive passive stats. They’re all based on how long you want a fight to last.

Vitality is extra health that you get to use once. This is for fighters who want a little survivability, but plan on ending or escaping fights rather quickly. Toughness reduces damage (boosting effective health) while also making your heals proportionally better (since that static heal of 4000 now requires more enemy damage to erase). Healing power is for people that want a fight to last (or last in a fight) indefinitely.

Basically, as a fight goes from short to long to very long, effectiveness per stat changes from vitality to toughness to healing power. (And combinations of the three)

Just adding my voice to those supporting downed state, with added support for Orpheal’s idea about the dual stats. To some of the other posters I simply have to ask why you want to turn GW2 into something it’s not (and not in the good way).

And just so we’re clear, only one of my 20 chars runs ’zerker (most pieces, not even all) and I never had any issue finding a group for dungeons, even when going full PUG.

xDudisx.5914:

They should make so you can only rally in champs or legendary mobs. Suddenly dungeons are harder and less forgiving. For spvp the downed state is not a big problem because you can’t kill a player as easily as a trash mob.

Mobs are skipped.

Anet said they won’t change dungeons.

rotten.9753:

xDudisx.5914:

They should make so you can only rally in champs or legendary mobs. Suddenly dungeons are harder and less forgiving. For spvp the downed state is not a big problem because you can’t kill a player as easily as a trash mob.

Mobs are skipped.

Anet said they won’t change dungeons.

They also said wvw ranks were going to be character bound, that exotic was going to be the final tier, etc….

Also how is your comment related with the rally mechanic? Skiping or not is not what OP started discussing.

xDudisx.5914:

They also said wvw ranks were going to be character bound, that exotic was going to be the final tier, etc….

Dungeons haven’t seen virtually any change since probably ac rework which was more than 2 years ago. Wishful thinking at best.

Also how is your comment related with the rally mechanic? Skiping or not is not what OP started discussing.

You brought a proposal of change which is related to skipping. I’m not sure why are you even asking this question.

mando.2730:

Aenesthesia.1697:

But i didnt have to go that far: i’ve run cof p1 and 2 countless times and i still die with my ele if the wind blows in the wrong direction. yesterday, without going too far, in the end boss of p2, i was feared and ran through 2 areas, getting downed in the second. Nothing i could do. Why? because i was running with a berserker build.

Right, but you should’ve been defeated, not downed. Perhaps in this circumstance it didn’t matter either way, but in another scenario, perhaps once again you went down, because you were running a glassy spec and didn’t time your dodge etc correctly, but this time you are close to your team, and they just come over and res you and you’re back in the game, no harm done. <— This is a big issue, in my eyes at least.

But if i runthe risk of dying due to an unavoidable attack that puts me in an unavoidable situation, then of course the zerker gear is dead. So, for you it would be better if the game moved from active play to passive play and damage mitigation through stats?

I cannot aggree with that.

mando.2730:

But I propose this to you: How many times have you been stacked in a corner, bursting down an enemy with all of your zerker friends, when all of a sudden, one or two or even three of your party get put into the downed state (after all, you are all standing on that big boss and taking all of his damage), only to be immediately rallied off a nearby low level enemy, or speed ressed by the rest of the party? The party finishes off the boss, collects rewards and moves on. There was no real consequence for those players ‘dying’.

Holy crap, what were they thinking by neglecting to punish players??? You’d almost think we were playing a game!

rotten.9753:

xDudisx.5914:

They also said wvw ranks were going to be character bound, that exotic was going to be the final tier, etc….

Dungeons haven’t seen virtually any change since probably ac rework which was more than 2 years ago. Wishful thinking at best.

Also how is your comment related with the rally mechanic? Skiping or not is not what OP started discussing.

You brought a proposal of change which is related to skipping. I’m not sure why are you even asking this question.

Yes, they did some direct changes to dungeons. AC spider cast aoe even when stacking, TA spider that you can no longer reflect projectiles, fractal changes, etc…

Now if you look at the indirect changes we have lots of stuff: FGS nerf, norn’s elite nerf, might nerf from 35 to 30, etc…

It is not related to skipping. It is related to when killing a boss you get free rally from trash mobs. I don’t know how skipping is related to the rally mechanic because if you are skipping you are not even fighting and therefore not going in downed state.

Did you read the wrong post?