Guild Wars 2

People don’t hate talent. People hate braggarts.

Korrigan.4837:

RedCobra.7693:

Korrigan.4837:

I have to agree with the people who say that advertising a guild on general chat and asking for “skilled players” is a recipe for disaster, a good way to end with not only bad players but also a lot of kids with overinflated ego.

Personally, in my guild, we only take people who are pleasant to play with, even if they aren’t “zomg top skillz!”.

i personally dont keep people in my guild who are bad at the game and choose to stay that way, its simply the way my guild is, if someone is lacking i will put all my effort into helping them and finding out what they struggle with, im an elitist but i like to think that im one of the good examples, i plan on turning the guild into a WvW guild so i need everyone to be average in it, if not then i will help them, if i know they are going to try i will help, i dont help the people who want a free ride :P

but yeah i aggre with you, its people who advertise like that who are lazy and give “elitists” a VERY bad name.

Well I’m glad I’m not in your guild. I guess I don’t take video games seriously enough to behave like that towards fellow players, and even less towards fellow guild mates. And yet we don’t have any trouble tackling any of the content of the game, including WvW.

As I said, I rather be surrounded by pleasant people even if they aren’t the best players ever than by “skilled” ones who take games way too seriously and are not pleasant to play with. I play games to relax, not to manage a second job as guild leader to lead a sort of pseudo military organization in a game after I’m done with my real job.

When I remove someone from my guild (happened once so far since release, we have a good recruitment policy), it’s because he behaved badly and broke our few guild rules which mostly say “be nice”. Never because he’s less skilled than others. I’d hate myself if I ever did that.

i totally agree im glad im not in his guild and for the casualness of my guild makes me want to play more. it funny how the skill of a few can make a dungeon run faster then a group of 5 who supposably are skilled. happened the first time i ever did cof with guild mates. three of us didnt have a clue and followed. the mates commented how it was the quickest run they ever did and found out after several runs later they were right. i prefer a more social guild. as for advertizing doesnt a more casual guild advertize that not you must be fun top play with they state they are relaxed and casual

Zelyhn.8069:

Why should players feel bad about the fact that some players are better than them?

They shouldn’t, but you do get players who make them feel bad (whether it be through not allowing them to group with them or straight up insulting) for not being as skilled / not playing what they perceive as the ‘right’ way, and in most cases they don’t help them to improve or understand. This is why ‘elitists’ get a bad name, not because the average player badmouths about ‘elitists’.

As for the whole bragging thing, I don’t understand the need to. I don’t feel the need to tell people if I’m awesome at something, or show off what I have achieved, both in-game and in real life.

I feel proud in myself for doing it. Why should I care if anyone else knows?

If someone beats me in WvW I can respect that and their skill.

If someone comes up to me in Lions Arch and tells me how good they are they will get put on ignore.

Zelyhn.8069:

More and more I am experiencing this habit that the community has to despise people who claim to be skilled for this game.

Try it: go to LA, and say that you are a good player.
(Note: I am not saying I do it. This sentence is for rhetorical purposes)

People will instantly tell you that you lack humility, that you are an elitist, that you are despicable etc; for no reason.

The reason they are saying those things is cuz its true. That’s what happens when you go around telling people how awesome you are.

People do not want to see or be aware of the fact that some players can be more skilled than them (no boasting, just statement of skill). The community seem to believe that they would be better off without such players.
It appears as if the community would like to stay bad and play only with bad people.

It is also the same on the forums.

From my experience is quite the opposite. I’ve been asked about my build/playstyle a bunch of times after dungeons or in WvW. But I don’t run around LA telling people how great I am and that they should copy me.

As a comparison: when you play football as an amateur you play it for fun and you dream of being as skilled as the players of international level. In GW2 the ’amateurs" have no such dreams, worse: they do not want to face the fact that being better is possible.

With all due respect, why the discrimination?

Most of the best athletes don’t tell people how great they are. Its the other way around other people tell the great athletes how good they are. And not all amateur players have aspirations of becoming a professional. A lot of these players in sports and GW2 alike play because they enjoy the game.

I can understand why some people feel that elitists are not liked and people don’t really appreciate good skills. However, from my experience I would say that often times the “good players” tend to have a bad way of expressing themselves.

On many occasions I’ve seen the “more advanced” players tell newbies to get better equipments while on a dungeon run, which usually indicates that the newbie doesn’t care about his equipment… while it should be pretty obvious the newbie is there, in that dungeon, to get himself some equipment. Often times they just show a lack of understanding of what it is to be “new”.

Overall it’s often the tone of the text these elitists use, as if the newbie was there purposefully making the dungeon worse by not wearing better armor. In the first post I’d say people are reading the same tone. For example the sentence: “People do not want to see or be aware of the fact that some players can be more skilled than them” shows that the OP lacks understanding of others – instead of wondering if the fault is in him or giving any deeper thought to why people react as they do, he simply puts the fault in others.

Likewise he continues to insult other people’s gamestyle by saying “stale and boring gameplay additions rather than diverse and challenging content”, adding that: “the ’amateurs” have no such dreams, worse: they do not want to face the fact that being better is possible".

If you can’t go halfway for other people, they rarely do it for you either.

This game was made to completely eliminate the elitism mentality. If you notice there is no real competitive PVE. No PVE raids, no gear score, no way to get better gear, no competition for resource nodes….

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Truly good players don’t advertise…. they ‘show’ it by simply playing. Jumping in and helping people out that are losing a fight, offering their assistance to someone asking for help with no expectation of any type of repayment. They are humble, and most will tell you (if asked) that they aren’t good players.

People that shout that they are ‘good players’, ‘have skillz’, or advertise ‘pro x’ usually tend to be jackkittens that (in fact) aren’t good players.

This. It’s the same way in other games and often the community comes to know who the really good players are without them having to declare it themselves. You spend enough time on a server and start to develop a reputation through actions, not words.

Speaking personally, I’ve always preferred to show people what I can do rather than brag and eat my own words when someone else better comes along (as Qui-Gon Jinn would say, “There’s always a bigger fish”).

Zelyhn.8069:

I am not talking about boasting etc, I dislike skilled players who despise average players, but I like competition, I like to dream, I like to strive to be the best (in a healthy way), I like the fun and the motivation I get from being challenged! yet people hate me for my yearnings.

Elitism is not the problem here, what is wrong is averageism !!

I hate to have to be the one to tell you this, but calling people who are happy just playing and never getting better the problem is elitism. And for you to try and tell them how they should play is what is wrong.

I’m sorry if you don’t find this game challenging enough for you, but plenty of players do. If you need more challenge there are plenty of things you can do. Such as play with all whites or all greens or all rares, try a new class or a different build, try to accomplish something fairly difficult without dying or as a speed run, try to carry some of these less good players through some of the more difficult content, try to complete as many achievements as possible or find some other interesting way to handicap yourself so that you feel accomplished when you achieve something.

At the end of this game is what you make of it and trying to blame others for your grievances will only result in them pointing the finger back at you.

Zelyhn.8069:

People will instantly tell you that you lack humility, that you are an elitist, that you are despicable etc; for no reason.

Ironically, because they lack humility.

This isn’t a game thing. It happens everywhere, especially in the real world. Nobody accepts that they’re not the best at everything ever. Oh sure, they’ll say they do. It’s socially acceptable that they do. But they don’t. Secretly they know they’re crap, but they don’t accept it. They’ll deny it to their graves if they can.

They are bad, of course. In my experience most people are really bad at mostly everything. Which is why they’re insecure. People who are good generally don’t have issues with being told they’re not. They’ll either prove you wrong, or, more often than not, not give a kitten, since they are “secure” – they know and have evidence that they are.

Of course, there is the issue that most people who claim to be good really aren’t. They’re just another subset of the bad ones that decided to take their denial one step further. But, then again, good players aren’t particularly bothered by it either. It’s only the insecure bad players that feel threatened by it. Much in the same manner that big dogs are usually a lot more quiet than tiny dogs. It’s the tiny dog that is scared of everything, and thus barks at everything. The big dog doesn’t care. You can attack him if you want, it’s your funeral.

lordkrall.7241:

Because someone that is actually good have no need to shout about being good?

What if it is relevant to the conversation? What if it merely a statement, part of a discussion? You’re right that most good players don’t usually mention they’re good, but sometimes it’s relevant, at which point it’s merely a statement of fact. And why do you care? If you don’t believe it to be true, why does it upset you? I doubt you go around the street correcting everyone who says something you believe to be untrue, especially if it’s not an objectively easy answer.

gaspara.4079:

Zelyhn.8069:

I am not talking about boasting etc, I dislike skilled players who despise average players, but I like competition, I like to dream, I like to strive to be the best (in a healthy way), I like the fun and the motivation I get from being challenged! yet people hate me for my yearnings.

Elitism is not the problem here, what is wrong is averageism !!

I hate to have to be the one to tell you this, but calling people who are happy just playing and never getting better the problem is elitism. And for you to try and tell them how they should play is what is wrong.

I’m sorry if you don’t find this game challenging enough for you, but plenty of players do. If you need more challenge there are plenty of things you can do. Such as play with all whites or all greens or all rares, try a new class or a different build, try to accomplish something fairly difficult without dying or as a speed run, try to carry some of these less good players through some of the more difficult content, try to complete as many achievements as possible or find some other interesting way to handicap yourself so that you feel accomplished when you achieve something.

At the end of this game is what you make of it and trying to blame others for your grievances will only result in them pointing the finger back at you.

I’m not going to defend “elitists” but i do see a great deal of vocal players, who i guess we could call “purists.” People complain about lack of challenge, and “purists” come in crying elitism and telling you to stop complaining and enjoy the game and ignore your feelings of stagnation, or try playing with one hand tied behind your back.

IMO, the issue is with the way the content is designed (aka dungeons), all types of players will intermingle, unless you request a specific type of player through gw2lfg.com.

But since there is only one type of dungeon (exp) and no hard modes, raids, gated-content, what-have-you, the high-end, elitist players are still doing the same challenges that newer/casual players are doing. And when these players group together unknowingly, that when the issues surface.

At least in WoW, the elitists were kept seperate from everyone else, because they were focused on raids/hard-mode isntances that casuals didn’t have access, too, or couldn’t be bothered to put in that level of effort to compete at that level.

Neither style of play is wrong— but if two players are looking to get different things out of the game in the same content, you will begin to see a conflict.

I think the issue is that the “leet” players are often the most unbearable players in the game. The worst experiences I’ve had in this game have all come from the same type of person: The player who is good at the game, but in their head they are great at the game and use this as justification for being just plain unpleasant. They’ll try to control how others play the dungeon and throw tantrums when they don’t get their way, with biting back commentary the whole time if the group doesn’t go with their plan, and then yelling at the group when their plan doesn’t work. They’ll spend the whole time criticizing how other people play the game, and 90% of the time they’re wrong about what happened or why it happened. The kind of players who will go on LFG, invite you to their team and then go on a different mission while saying you are stupid for wanting to go on a certain path.

The interesting thing is that these players are actually good at the game. But as soon as you get someone who goes into LA and brags about how good they are, all this does is remind those players of intolerable punks who ruin everyone’s day because they can’t have fun at the game themselves.

So if someone is a good player, they should just keep it to themselves. If they feel the need to tell people they are good, then something is wrong.

How is announcing to all of LA that you’re a highly-skilled player (solely for the sake of announcing it) not boasting?

I’m going to receive a lot of hate for this, but being “skilled” in this game isn’t anything to brag about. Before anybody says “why are you playing this game then?!?”, because I enjoy it, but that doesn’t mean it’s not more simple than other games.

Making use of 10 skills, limited trait builds, standardized gear, standardized stats, and knowing when to press the dodge key isn’t that difficult. In reality, the only thing that would make somebody more “skilled” than others is as simple as the amount of time spent in any activity. I don’t think I have come across any bad players in this game yet, just inexperienced. I believe this to be a common misconception that somebody is “bad” when really they just need more time to learn the dungeon or needs more experience in WvW/PvP.

If you want to argue “depth” there’s so many mechanics this game doesn’t have which really provide for a larger distinction between “good” and “bad” players in other games. If you’re a fan of the GW franchise and the style of limited skills and variables, then there’s no sense arguing with you because you like what you like.

TL;DR- Saying you’re good at this game is about the same as saying you’re good at Mario.

Zindrix.1750:

I’m going to receive a lot of hate for this, but being “skilled” in this game isn’t anything to brag about. Before anybody says “why are you playing this game then?!?”, because I enjoy it, but that doesn’t mean it’s not more simple than other games.

Making use of 10 skills, limited trait builds, standardized gear, standardized stats, and knowing when to press the dodge key isn’t that difficult. In reality, the only thing that would make somebody more “skilled” than others is as simple as the amount of time spent in any activity. I don’t think I have come across any bad players in this game yet, just inexperienced. I believe this to be a common misconception that somebody is “bad” when really they just need more time to learn the dungeon or needs more experience in WvW/PvP.

---

If you want to argue “depth” there’s so many mechanics this game doesn’t have which really provide for a larger distinction between “good” and “bad” players in other games. If you’re a fan of the GW franchise and the style of limited skills and variables, then there’s no sense arguing with you because you like what you like.

TL;DR- Saying you’re good at this game is about the same as saying you’re good at Mario.

It still comes down to basic reflexes and timing. Which is pretty much a measure of skill in any video game. If you can’t get your timing down then you wont be able to dodge anything.

And there is depth to skill in Mario, too. At the higher levels your getting into speed runs, but just because the game is accessible to new players doesn’t mean there is a high ceiling for skill.

At a very basic level for GW2, you could even just compare “clickers” to “hotkeyers”, or people that use the keys to turn as opposed to mouse turning.

I’m not hating on you, but basically your saying “your skills don’t impress me” which is just, like, your opinion, man.

Scrambles.2604:

Zindrix.1750:

I’m going to receive a lot of hate for this, but being “skilled” in this game isn’t anything to brag about. Before anybody says “why are you playing this game then?!?”, because I enjoy it, but that doesn’t mean it’s not more simple than other games.

Making use of 10 skills, limited trait builds, standardized gear, standardized stats, and knowing when to press the dodge key isn’t that difficult. In reality, the only thing that would make somebody more “skilled” than others is as simple as the amount of time spent in any activity. I don’t think I have come across any bad players in this game yet, just inexperienced. I believe this to be a common misconception that somebody is “bad” when really they just need more time to learn the dungeon or needs more experience in WvW/PvP.

---

If you want to argue “depth” there’s so many mechanics this game doesn’t have which really provide for a larger distinction between “good” and “bad” players in other games. If you’re a fan of the GW franchise and the style of limited skills and variables, then there’s no sense arguing with you because you like what you like.

TL;DR- Saying you’re good at this game is about the same as saying you’re good at Mario.

It still comes down to basic reflexes and timing. Which is pretty much a measure of skill in any video game. If you can’t get your timing down then you wont be able to dodge anything.

And there is depth to skill in Mario, too. At the higher levels your getting into speed runs, but just because the game is accessible to new players doesn’t mean there is a high ceiling for skill.

At a very basic level for GW2, you could even just compare “clickers” to “hotkeyers”, or people that use the keys to turn as opposed to mouse turning.

I’m not hating on you, but basically your saying “your skills don’t impress me” which is just, like, your opinion, man.

You do make some valid points.

I would say reflexive skill is more along the lines of FPS gaming whereas more complex MMOs deal with some level of “intellectual” ability and a smaller amount of reflexive skill. Dodging red circles isn’t difficult once the encounter is learned and becomes monotonous very quickly.

That being said, the GW franchise does play more like an FPS-style MMO, and that is exactly how I played the first one. Make a pvp character and do AB/JQ/Arena.

You’re also right about keyboard turners and such though. Those playstyles are certainly more feasible in other games and it just doesn’t work in this one.

Someone that is good doesn’t need to go to LA and say to all that they are good.

Anyone that thinks they need to state such deserves to be ripped.

All they are doing is boasting. No matter how you are trying to present it, it is still boasting, bravado, bragging, and people like that need their ego taken down several notches.

Similarly to another thread, I wanted to point out that “elitism” and “skill” are not necessarily correlated.

The only thing that is consistent is their own perception of their skill, and desire to be recognized by other players. So, their playstyle revolves around satisfying this. Not good or bad, etc, just how it is.

It isnt so much a concern about actual skill, but perception of skill. Some elitists are excellent at what they are doing, some are terrible. The perception is all that matters, and every experience will be biased through perspective to confirm the initial foundation of thought. They also tend to attempt to confirm this through means that are perceived to let other players know that the individual is “awesome.” Skill is not relevant, only perception.

Really, my only thing is, “elitist” tends to be mutually exclusive with “I suck at dealing with other people.” If anything needed to be worked on, I would say that is it. The rest is just personal preference, perhaps tinged with a bit of egotism (which can be said for darn near everyone, just different contexts).

Some people have no interest in running dungeons with people who are not as talented, skilled and knowledgeable as they are. Some people have no interest in catering to others’ need for approval or admiration. These two groups may or may not overlap.

In a game, I’m more inclined to admire people who go out of their way to help others than I am to admire someone who was gifted with good twitch reflexes and as a result thinks this makes them a badkitten.

What’s the point of this topic?

Saying “I’m a good player” doesn’t make it so… why would you ever expect a favorable response in a semi-public forum?

ditto on the “people hate braggarts”, so true. Humility is good, you should try it sometime.

?

Why do we despise people that claim to be skilled at the game? We don’t. We despise people that claim to be skilled and pass on their statements as an absolute truth with no alternatives.

The key word is CLAIM.

Of course, if you go to LA and say you are good, then people will laugh at you. They should. If you are good, prove it. Do something people can’t. People that post actual videos and calculations (aka those that actually prove) do not get as much flack as people that just use theorycraft BS to put down people.

In addition, there’s 8 professions and a number of game modes? Are you claiming superiority over all of them? Even if you did, you’d still lose to someone specializing in one. Could it be that there’s more to it than your own perspective?

In the end, of course some players are more skilled than others. Problem is that a lot of players believe that they are skilled, but in reality they are just as terrible as the players they talk crap about it. PvF isn’t Gw2, after all. A lot of people are bad at that too. The same BS that people sprout when they claim the game is too easy for them when they only play one section of the game as one profession, is no different from the whiner who can’t solo Cursed Shore outside of events. Did anyone ever consider several things can be simultaneously right? A lack of perspective prevents this.

ArchonWing.9480:

PvF isn’t Gw2, after all.

I dont know about that…

I would propose that PvF is an integral part to ANY modern MMO.

I can see your point. Though I really don’t like it when I dominate a thread and then it proceeds to get nightcapped or buried by the next day. It’s impossible to have 24 hour coverage on these forums. Nor do I like it when [Event] Complain About the Game gets finished and the same thing shows up every 20 minutes. It doesn’t feel very dynamic and given that your threads can be one shot and locked, I find that zerker is best for that too. And honestly this language filter makes the forum cater to casuals too much; the hardcore trolls should be recognized more.

Well, I wouldn’t mind a “complain on the forums” button in game. That would make it easier for me.

Vayne.8563:

People don’t hate talent. People hate braggarts.

Well said!

I am a decidedly mediocre (or possibly worse) player. I admire talent. I have played with some remarkable players and hold them in the highest esteem..seriously. I marvel at what these players can do. No envy…no jealousy…just admiration. What I dislike…as one who is not so talented…are those with the talent you claim to have using this as a foundation for denigrating others. This unfortunately is sometimes the case.

As for braggarts…well…they are annoying but I largely just disregard them…whether in game or IRL.

I do not strive to be good, or bad here… i just am who i am, i play the game for what it is, a virtual game, an MMORPG..

Pressing keyboard keys and using a mouse is not really skill..When you get a bit older you’ll understand this OP

Calae.1738:

zenleto.6179:

Calae.1738:

This game is a haven for casual players. Maybe that’s a good thing. When a AAA hardcore MMO is released that requires actual skill and minimal brain activity; the casual players can stay right here.

I’m more than happy to let those with minimal brain activity get their jollies elsewhere.

The implication was that Guild Wars 2 requires no brain functions what so ever to succeed. But I see what you did there. Well played sir.

Thanks. I really couldn’t let that one pass through.

Not true. Do we hate the pro soccer player because they arw awesome in their skill? No. The difference is that the pro soccer player doesnt go to the local park and tell everyone that they suck. You just dont see that happening.

Hey team, another great player chiming in here. I’m also good at bowel movements, brushing my teeth, making my bed, eating, walking, watching TV (some people claim to be good at this, but I’m better), talking to people, posting on forums, turning on appliances, writing my name (I’m an expert at this actually), singing songs, watching clouds in the sky, fighting (I’m awesome at fighting, no one in the world could possibly defeat me), driving my car (I could be a nascar world champ if I wanted to), throwing a ball, sleeping (I get a better night’s sleep than anyone else I know), waiting for expansions to computer games I like (I have immense patience), socializing, picking up girls (yes, I’m better at this than you) – actually the list goes on and on and on – I’m just really, really good and it’s no wonder I’m especially good at GW2, probably the best player that has ever played this game.

@Torpian,
Oh my gosh! Really? I’ve never been this amazed by anyone anywhere. You must be so much better than I am. I watch youtube videos all day long about those things and spend my time with nothing else than wondering how I could drive my car better than anyone else in the road. It’s where I get my joy of life. Being better than others at driving. I know my workplace associates hate me, ‘cause I’m already better than they are at it. Sometimes people stop and stare at me on the parking lot, being all amazed at how precisely I park my car. It’s like always right in the middle of the parking lot. I hope that some day we can be buddies and watch the same sky, sing songs and pick up girls like the elite that we are.

But for now I’ll just go back to my dark, dark cellar to read books + read online tutorials on those things, because I just don’t deserve to breathe the same air as you.

tee hee. <3
- Your Best Fan Ever

Are you all seriously assuming that I shout about my skill level in LA ? Even if I said I don’t? You people are what is wrong: you jump on the assumptions that I am an elitist, an arrogant person etc. In fact I can understand: you may have had such bad experiences with people like who you think I am in the past that as soon as you see something that could be a sign of their presence you jump in for the kill.

Maybe that explains my problems.

ProxyDamage has put it in words for you:
The key word is “statement of fact”

ProxyDamage.9826:

lordkrall.7241:

Because someone that is actually good have no need to shout about being good?

What if it is relevant to the conversation? What if it merely a statement, part of a discussion? You’re right that most good players don’t usually mention they’re good, but sometimes it’s relevant, at which point it’s merely a statement of fact. And why do you care? If you don’t believe it to be true, why does it upset you? I doubt you go around the street correcting everyone who says something you believe to be untrue, especially if it’s not an objectively easy answer.

Zelyhn.8069:

Are you all seriously assuming that I shout about my skill level in LA ? Even if I said I don’t? You people are what is wrong: you jump on the assumptions that I am an elitist, an arrogant person etc. In fact I can understand: you may have had such bad experiences with people like who you think I am in the past that as soon as you see something that could be a sign of their presence you jump in for the kill.

Maybe that explains my problems.

ProxyDamage has put it in words for you:
The key word is “statement of fact”

ProxyDamage.9826:

lordkrall.7241:

Because someone that is actually good have no need to shout about being good?

What if it is relevant to the conversation? What if it merely a statement, part of a discussion? You’re right that most good players don’t usually mention they’re good, but sometimes it’s relevant, at which point it’s merely a statement of fact. And why do you care? If you don’t believe it to be true, why does it upset you? I doubt you go around the street correcting everyone who says something you believe to be untrue, especially if it’s not an objectively easy answer.

This entire comment is again, completely different than the original situation.
Now it’s “part of a existing conversation” instead of just a randomly self proclaimed statement of fact? God why can’t this post die. The story keep changing, the arguments are completely irrelevant… god just let it end.

because this is a mmorpg, if you can brag about your skill, others can do that too with the addition of bashing yours.

Castaliea.3156:

Zelyhn.8069:

Are you all seriously assuming that I shout about my skill level in LA ? Even if I said I don’t? You people are what is wrong: you jump on the assumptions that I am an elitist, an arrogant person etc. In fact I can understand: you may have had such bad experiences with people like who you think I am in the past that as soon as you see something that could be a sign of their presence you jump in for the kill.

Maybe that explains my problems.

ProxyDamage has put it in words for you:
The key word is “statement of fact”

ProxyDamage.9826:

lordkrall.7241:

Because someone that is actually good have no need to shout about being good?

What if it is relevant to the conversation? What if it merely a statement, part of a discussion? You’re right that most good players don’t usually mention they’re good, but sometimes it’s relevant, at which point it’s merely a statement of fact. And why do you care? If you don’t believe it to be true, why does it upset you? I doubt you go around the street correcting everyone who says something you believe to be untrue, especially if it’s not an objectively easy answer.

This entire comment is again, completely different than the original situation.
Now it’s “part of a existing conversation” instead of just a randomly self proclaimed statement of fact? God why can’t this post die. The story keep changing, the arguments are completely irrelevant… god just let it end.

A statement of fact, whether it is part of a discussion or not, is just a statement of fact.
Nothing has changed in this topic, well maybe the way everybody interprets what I say, but then again it is interpretation so you know…

We can close the subject. I got my answer: people cannot bear a simple statement of fact. People ask for humility that is morally unnecessary because they cannot bear the fact that people can be better. This has been stated several times in this discussion. People interpret statements, they are biased. People are inconfident and often frustrated about their skill level.

Castaliea.3156:

Zelyhn.8069:

Are you all seriously assuming that I shout about my skill level in LA ? Even if I said I don’t? You people are what is wrong: you jump on the assumptions that I am an elitist, an arrogant person etc. In fact I can understand: you may have had such bad experiences with people like who you think I am in the past that as soon as you see something that could be a sign of their presence you jump in for the kill.

Maybe that explains my problems.

ProxyDamage has put it in words for you:
The key word is “statement of fact”

ProxyDamage.9826:

lordkrall.7241:

Because someone that is actually good have no need to shout about being good?

What if it is relevant to the conversation? What if it merely a statement, part of a discussion? You’re right that most good players don’t usually mention they’re good, but sometimes it’s relevant, at which point it’s merely a statement of fact. And why do you care? If you don’t believe it to be true, why does it upset you? I doubt you go around the street correcting everyone who says something you believe to be untrue, especially if it’s not an objectively easy answer.

This entire comment is again, completely different than the original situation.
Now it’s “part of a existing conversation” instead of just a randomly self proclaimed statement of fact? God why can’t this post die. The story keep changing, the arguments are completely irrelevant… god just let it end.

I think I’ll have to agree.

People like the OP just don’t get it, don’t bother trying to explain it to him. Probably thinks the same way IRL, which I can’t imagine working out too well for him.

Zelyhn.8069:

Castaliea.3156:

Zelyhn.8069:

Are you all seriously assuming that I shout about my skill level in LA ? Even if I said I don’t? You people are what is wrong: you jump on the assumptions that I am an elitist, an arrogant person etc. In fact I can understand: you may have had such bad experiences with people like who you think I am in the past that as soon as you see something that could be a sign of their presence you jump in for the kill.

Maybe that explains my problems.

ProxyDamage has put it in words for you:
The key word is “statement of fact”

ProxyDamage.9826:

lordkrall.7241:

Because someone that is actually good have no need to shout about being good?

What if it is relevant to the conversation? What if it merely a statement, part of a discussion? You’re right that most good players don’t usually mention they’re good, but sometimes it’s relevant, at which point it’s merely a statement of fact. And why do you care? If you don’t believe it to be true, why does it upset you? I doubt you go around the street correcting everyone who says something you believe to be untrue, especially if it’s not an objectively easy answer.

This entire comment is again, completely different than the original situation.
Now it’s “part of a existing conversation” instead of just a randomly self proclaimed statement of fact? God why can’t this post die. The story keep changing, the arguments are completely irrelevant… god just let it end.

A statement of fact, whether it is part of a discussion or not, is just a statement of fact.
Nothing has changed in this topic, well maybe the way everybody interprets what I say, but then again it is interpretation so you know…

We can close the subject. I got my answer: people cannot bear a simple statement of fact. People ask for humility that is morally unnecessary because they cannot bear the fact that people can be better. This has been stated several times in this discussion. People interpret statements, they are biased. People are inconfident and often frustrated about their skill level.

Didn’t there used to be a German leader in the past who thought this way?

Mattargul.9235:

RedCobra.7693:

its difficult to distinguish between pride and boasting (…)

Pride is something you have.
Boasting is something that requires other people. If you boast in the forest and no one hears you how many baby cats were given?

The premise of the OP is that people hate you for talent and the example he gives is that someone in LA shouts “I’m a good player.” and gets murdered. Wrong. They don’t hate you for being a good player they hate you for boasting to be a good player.

Some people can be happy in their knowledge/belief that they are a good player. Some people need other people to feel good about themselves.

i hope a dont get flame for this but i think im going to be honest and say that i need other people to know xD i want to get noticed on the game, however unlike a lot of people i understand there is a right way and a wrong way of doing this.

But to address your first point, i dont believe that is exactly true Im missing the right words to use but the word boasting has gathered negative connatations and has for a while, im aware that it means to show excessive pride but i do believe its about showing control and finding a balance, i personally find enjoyment from being congratulated, who doesnt?

Zindrix.1750:

Zelyhn.8069:

Castaliea.3156:

Zelyhn.8069:

Are you all seriously assuming that I shout about my skill level in LA ? Even if I said I don’t? You people are what is wrong: you jump on the assumptions that I am an elitist, an arrogant person etc. In fact I can understand: you may have had such bad experiences with people like who you think I am in the past that as soon as you see something that could be a sign of their presence you jump in for the kill.

Maybe that explains my problems.

ProxyDamage has put it in words for you:
The key word is “statement of fact”

ProxyDamage.9826:

lordkrall.7241:

Because someone that is actually good have no need to shout about being good?

What if it is relevant to the conversation? What if it merely a statement, part of a discussion? You’re right that most good players don’t usually mention they’re good, but sometimes it’s relevant, at which point it’s merely a statement of fact. And why do you care? If you don’t believe it to be true, why does it upset you? I doubt you go around the street correcting everyone who says something you believe to be untrue, especially if it’s not an objectively easy answer.

This entire comment is again, completely different than the original situation.
Now it’s “part of a existing conversation” instead of just a randomly self proclaimed statement of fact? God why can’t this post die. The story keep changing, the arguments are completely irrelevant… god just let it end.

A statement of fact, whether it is part of a discussion or not, is just a statement of fact.
Nothing has changed in this topic, well maybe the way everybody interprets what I say, but then again it is interpretation so you know…

We can close the subject. I got my answer: people cannot bear a simple statement of fact. People ask for humility that is morally unnecessary because they cannot bear the fact that people can be better. This has been stated several times in this discussion. People interpret statements, they are biased. People are inconfident and often frustrated about their skill level.

Didn’t there used to be a German leader in the past who thought this way?

That’s not a valid argument. You just invoked Godwin’s law and therefor lost the discussion.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

ricky markham.8173:

Korrigan.4837:

RedCobra.7693:

Korrigan.4837:

I have to agree with the people who say that advertising a guild on general chat and asking for “skilled players” is a recipe for disaster, a good way to end with not only bad players but also a lot of kids with overinflated ego.

Personally, in my guild, we only take people who are pleasant to play with, even if they aren’t “zomg top skillz!”.

i personally dont keep people in my guild who are bad at the game and choose to stay that way, its simply the way my guild is, if someone is lacking i will put all my effort into helping them and finding out what they struggle with, im an elitist but i like to think that im one of the good examples, i plan on turning the guild into a WvW guild so i need everyone to be average in it, if not then i will help them, if i know they are going to try i will help, i dont help the people who want a free ride :P

but yeah i aggre with you, its people who advertise like that who are lazy and give “elitists” a VERY bad name.

Well I’m glad I’m not in your guild. I guess I don’t take video games seriously enough to behave like that towards fellow players, and even less towards fellow guild mates. And yet we don’t have any trouble tackling any of the content of the game, including WvW.

As I said, I rather be surrounded by pleasant people even if they aren’t the best players ever than by “skilled” ones who take games way too seriously and are not pleasant to play with. I play games to relax, not to manage a second job as guild leader to lead a sort of pseudo military organization in a game after I’m done with my real job.

When I remove someone from my guild (happened once so far since release, we have a good recruitment policy), it’s because he behaved badly and broke our few guild rules which mostly say “be nice”. Never because he’s less skilled than others. I’d hate myself if I ever did that.

i totally agree im glad im not in his guild and for the casualness of my guild makes me want to play more. it funny how the skill of a few can make a dungeon run faster then a group of 5 who supposably are skilled. happened the first time i ever did cof with guild mates. three of us didnt have a clue and followed. the mates commented how it was the quickest run they ever did and found out after several runs later they were right. i prefer a more social guild. as for advertizing doesnt a more casual guild advertize that not you must be fun top play with they state they are relaxed and casual

i believe from the comments youve made, you havnt read the whole post, did i at one point say that i have kicked anyone??? no so dont assume, it is my philosophy though, i have put so much effort to help the people in my guild, like i said i teach and introduce them to each aspect, i said i need them to be average, and at what point did i say that it was a military organisation xD im making it a WvW guild, but when it comes down to it, i want to have fun, its a little disrespectful even for the forums to say what you just did :S

Onis.2418:

I can understand why some people feel that elitists are not liked and people don’t really appreciate good skills. However, from my experience I would say that often times the “good players” tend to have a bad way of expressing themselves.

On many occasions I’ve seen the “more advanced” players tell newbies to get better equipments while on a dungeon run, which usually indicates that the newbie doesn’t care about his equipment… while it should be pretty obvious the newbie is there, in that dungeon, to get himself some equipment. Often times they just show a lack of understanding of what it is to be “new”.

Overall it’s often the tone of the text these elitists use, as if the newbie was there purposefully making the dungeon worse by not wearing better armor. In the first post I’d say people are reading the same tone. For example the sentence: “People do not want to see or be aware of the fact that some players can be more skilled than them” shows that the OP lacks understanding of others – instead of wondering if the fault is in him or giving any deeper thought to why people react as they do, he simply puts the fault in others.

Likewise he continues to insult other people’s gamestyle by saying “stale and boring gameplay additions rather than diverse and challenging content”, adding that: “the ’amateurs” have no such dreams, worse: they do not want to face the fact that being better is possible".

If you can’t go halfway for other people, they rarely do it for you either.

hmm yes you have to be careful with words especially in pug groups, i have a guildie who has played in my guild for a long time, im the leader and have pushed for him to get dungeon gear but he simply has no desire, confusing i know :P but this guy is incredibly talented in wvw hence the reason i want him to have the best possible chances but at his current skill level i have 0 reason to complain, he organises events well and he is friendly to new guild members, i rarely see him get downed in dungeons tbh aswell.

Torpian.9142:

Hey team, another great player chiming in here. I’m also good at bowel movements, brushing my teeth, making my bed, eating, walking, watching TV (some people claim to be good at this, but I’m better), talking to people, posting on forums, turning on appliances, writing my name (I’m an expert at this actually), singing songs, watching clouds in the sky, fighting (I’m awesome at fighting, no one in the world could possibly defeat me), driving my car (I could be a nascar world champ if I wanted to), throwing a ball, sleeping (I get a better night’s sleep than anyone else I know), waiting for expansions to computer games I like (I have immense patience), socializing, picking up girls (yes, I’m better at this than you) – actually the list goes on and on and on – I’m just really, really good and it’s no wonder I’m especially good at GW2, probably the best player that has ever played this game.

the sarcasm is strong with this one

There’s a lot of sensitive people in this thread, you all play on Tarnished Coast?

Zindrix.1750:

Castaliea.3156:

Zelyhn.8069:

Are you all seriously assuming that I shout about my skill level in LA ? Even if I said I don’t? You people are what is wrong: you jump on the assumptions that I am an elitist, an arrogant person etc. In fact I can understand: you may have had such bad experiences with people like who you think I am in the past that as soon as you see something that could be a sign of their presence you jump in for the kill.

Maybe that explains my problems.

ProxyDamage has put it in words for you:
The key word is “statement of fact”

ProxyDamage.9826:

lordkrall.7241:

Because someone that is actually good have no need to shout about being good?

What if it is relevant to the conversation? What if it merely a statement, part of a discussion? You’re right that most good players don’t usually mention they’re good, but sometimes it’s relevant, at which point it’s merely a statement of fact. And why do you care? If you don’t believe it to be true, why does it upset you? I doubt you go around the street correcting everyone who says something you believe to be untrue, especially if it’s not an objectively easy answer.

This entire comment is again, completely different than the original situation.
Now it’s “part of a existing conversation” instead of just a randomly self proclaimed statement of fact? God why can’t this post die. The story keep changing, the arguments are completely irrelevant… god just let it end.

I think I’ll have to agree.

People like the OP just don’t get it, don’t bother trying to explain it to him. Probably thinks the same way IRL, which I can’t imagine working out too well for him.

I can’t imagine elitists having a good life if they carry that attitude into the workplace. Doing your job well has nothing to do with the speed of your (company) car or the amount of cores in your (company) laptop. Bragging about such meaningless things won’t make you employee of the month.

It also depends on relevance

Good
“I am ranked 47 PvP, and you are completely wrong. Class X is perfectly viable in pvp using this build…”

Less Acceptable.
“Lol you have so much trouble against class X, I am rank x in pvp, I’ll show you how to kill them ezpz "

Unacceptable
“LOL you can’t beat cof p2 I am rank x in pvp and I could do it by slapping my kitten on the keyboard”

Stupid
“LOL how to escape a zerg? Stop playing wvw scrub, I am rank x in pvp”

Stupid
“LOL I’m more skilled than you in pve, because you know I’m just better.”

[quote=2211348;ArchonWing.9480:]

Scrambles.2604:

gaspara.4079:

Zelyhn.8069:

I am not talking about boasting etc, I dislike skilled players who despise average players, but I like competition, I like to dream, I like to strive to be the best (in a healthy way), I like the fun and the motivation I get from being challenged! yet people hate me for my yearnings.

Elitism is not the problem here, what is wrong is averageism !!

I hate to have to be the one to tell you this, but calling people who are happy just playing and never getting better the problem is elitism. And for you to try and tell them how they should play is what is wrong.

I’m sorry if you don’t find this game challenging enough for you, but plenty of players do. If you need more challenge there are plenty of things you can do. Such as play with all whites or all greens or all rares, try a new class or a different build, try to accomplish something fairly difficult without dying or as a speed run, try to carry some of these less good players through some of the more difficult content, try to complete as many achievements as possible or find some other interesting way to handicap yourself so that you feel accomplished when you achieve something.

At the end of this game is what you make of it and trying to blame others for your grievances will only result in them pointing the finger back at you.

I’m not going to defend “elitists” but i do see a great deal of vocal players, who i guess we could call “purists.” People complain about lack of challenge, and “purists” come in crying elitism and telling you to stop complaining and enjoy the game and ignore your feelings of stagnation, or try playing with one hand tied behind your back.

IMO, the issue is with the way the content is designed (aka dungeons), all types of players will intermingle, unless you request a specific type of player through gw2lfg.com.

But since there is only one type of dungeon (exp) and no hard modes, raids, gated-content, what-have-you, the high-end, elitist players are still doing the same challenges that newer/casual players are doing. And when these players group together unknowingly, that when the issues surface.

At least in WoW, the elitists were kept seperate from everyone else, because they were focused on raids/hard-mode isntances that casuals didn’t have access, too, or couldn’t be bothered to put in that level of effort to compete at that level.

Neither style of play is wrong— but if two players are looking to get different things out of the game in the same content, you will begin to see a conflict.

This post nearly made me cry, its beautiful, neither is wrong.

lulzy thread here.

I like how…
People who are bad at socializing in general, are so unpracticed at restraint & “filters” in every day contact with the rest of humanity WILL do stuff exactly like this. They’ll just yell out in chat the most selfish basement dwelling instigations right across Lion’s Arch and then get offended & find a way to escalate it when they get laughed at. A normal person just walks away and learns something from it usually. (or pouts quietly).

No one hated “skill” in GW1 either… What they hated was Rank-Snobs and other n00bs who were so afraid of carrying a team (& then maybe losing anyway b/c they weren’t THAT good), that they’d boil every group recruitment down to “Meta Teams” of other boring Grinders instead of facing the unpredictable. That’s not being “good”, That’s just called being afraid of dying in a video game

Purists aka bleeding hearts

Fighting the man because fighting Kohler is just too hard.

“There is no need to boast of your accomplishments and what you can do. A great man is known, he needs no introduction.”
- CherLisa Biles

Kootje.9271:

“There is no need to boast of your accomplishments and what you can do. A great man is known, he needs no introduction.”
- CherLisa Biles

i dont like this qoute as it implies that if you need an introduction then you are not a great man, little bit mean :C