Guild Wars 2

Sabelle.2159:

This thread again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And Again.

RNG is something inherent in nearly every single MMO. The regular coffers aren’t even that bad. You can buy most of them for chump change. I don’t understand the fixation.

And yes, totally agree mate.

I was one of the many shouting for a RNG boycott, and as id still suggest people avoid anything RNG from the gem store, I like the options anet have provided with this one.

The very fact that they drop frequently and are tradeable makes it more than acceptable. I just splashed out on gems to convert to gold, in which i bought 500 coffers off the TP.
Im another 2 tickets up (2 tickets before this aswell) which means I can buy not only get one, I can buy every piece I actually like. Still got another 10g as disposable (the rest is smartly banked hehe) that I can buy another 500 if any of my alts demand extras.
So with 2 daggers, a sword and a hammer later… Im actually very happy with the RNG. Yes, as ill say again, I would def prefer a straight gem to skin purchase but we cant get what we want all the time… Im not a child after all, I understand the basics of life/risk/reward.

Aslong as further updates are the same in terms of drop rates for the chests themselves, its no longer a game breaker.

OP message in a nutshell: Let’s not reward people actually playing the game, but I love throwing my cash to get stuff in the box-lotto…

Go drunk, you’re home.

jheryn.8390:

Soulstar.7812:

jheryn.8390:

Soulstar.7812:

OP: Let not reward people actually playing the game, but I love throwing my cash to get stuff in the box-lotto…

Go drunk, you’re home.

Are you grammar stunted? I think your last line refers to you.

Sarcasm junior google it

I actually HAVE to explain a joke to you, that’s just sad.
Speaks volumes about you, princess.

LOL. No. You don’t have to explain anything to me. I wasn’t referring to your last line, brain trust. I was talking about your first. Now, however, I can include the first line and the second run on sentence of your reply. It seems evident that you need to go back to the third grade and have some simple grammar issues explained to you, short bus.

You are calling me princess and junior? I guess that is fine. At least you used a dictionary to spell the words right. Wait. Maybe you sounded the words out. I don’t want to assume you know how to use a dictionary.

Did I use sarcasm correctly? I certainly want to live up to your expectations. It is so very important to me.

clap clap clap

Instead of buying your rewards, play the game to get your rewards.

Or should I place that info in a RNG box so you can buy that from me.

I guess I shouldn’t have expected a thread like this to take too long to devolve into grammar nonsense.

I think the OP might be trolling. It’s genetic fallacy 101: “You don’t have to listen to criticisms of the RNG because they’re all farmers and are bad anyway.”

niea.7504:

I guess I shouldn’t have expected a thread like this to take too long to devolve into grammar nonsense.

Already got my popcorn – Need to cancel my netflix sub this is far more entertaining.

Guys, please read what you have written, re-read and read again before posting, this kind of squabble is exactly why anet mods are heavy handed.

Soulstar.7812:

jheryn.8390:

Soulstar.7812:

jheryn.8390:

Soulstar.7812:

OP: Let not reward people actually playing the game, but I love throwing my cash to get stuff in the box-lotto…

Go drunk, you’re home.

Are you grammar stunted? I think your last line refers to you.

Sarcasm junior google it

I actually HAVE to explain a joke to you, that’s just sad.
Speaks volumes about you, princess.

LOL. No. You don’t have to explain anything to me. I wasn’t referring to your last line, brain trust. I was talking about your first. Now, however, I can include the first line and the second run on sentence of your reply. It seems evident that you need to go back to the third grade and have some simple grammar issues explained to you, short bus.

You are calling me princess and junior? I guess that is fine. At least you used a dictionary to spell the words right. Wait. Maybe you sounded the words out. I don’t want to assume you know how to use a dictionary.

Did I use sarcasm correctly? I certainly want to live up to your expectations. It is so very important to me.

clap clap clap

Instead of buying your rewards, play the game to get your rewards.

Or should I place that info in a RNG box so you can buy that from me.

I don’t buy rewards. I just don’t complain about the people that do. I am happy to get the rewards I do from game play. I don’t think that anything is owed to me. Maybe I should stop now. This might be more information than you can handle at once.

jheryn.8390:

Soulstar.7812:

OP: Let not reward people actually playing the game, but I love throwing my cash to get stuff in the box-lotto…

Go drunk, you’re home.

Are you grammar stunted? I think your last line refers to you.

Wow, talk about facetious and condescending! Relentless hijacking of threads that you personally disagree with for what? What do you get out of it? After taking a look through your post history a clear picture emerged. It is okay for you to post your concerns on things that you wanted changed in the game. But it is “stupid” for others to post their issues on things that bother them? Nor is it okay for others to disagree with you on any account or you simply underscore their opinion with an ad hominem attack? You said previously that you are in the business of Finance. With that said, you are obviously an Adult, correct? Do you treat others in the real world as you do here on the forums? Keep in mind, that at the end of the day, this is a video game. You should tone it down and allow free expression from others without constantly injecting your repeated disapproval. We get it. We really do. You love this game as many of us do. You have no issues with RNG. There is no need to personally attack others for having a different opinion. Agree to disagree and just move on. Be the bigger man/woman. My goodness!

tolunart.2095:

AntiGw.9367:

RNG rewards random people. In this case everyone has a chance, regardless of how much time they can spend on playing, how good he is at playing etc.

And with regards to RNG reward systems, the skilled player gets more chances to receive something because he plays more efficiently and spends less time recovering from defeat, running back from waypoints and so on. The person with more time to play also receives more chances because he puts more hours into the game. The person with money to spare is still given a chance because he can buy items from the cash shop which are convenient or offer a chance at rewards like the rich dragon coffers.

This is actually the fairest system because it doesn’t favor those with more money, or those who spend 12 hrs a day playing the game, or those who use special equipment or train their reflexes to be better than others. Everyone has an equal chance to gain something in their own way.

Chopps.5047:

Both golf and poker involve luck, are rewarded, and not only that—we celebrate the best players in those games. There is an element of luck in most competition—and in life too. Many people are rewarded in real life for being lucky.

Also, be careful what you wish for…who’s to say you’d be successful in this skill game for rewards you allude to? Hundreds of thousands of people play this game. Just saying

These two posts are fantastic. I agree completely.

starwatto.4527:

You can’t just say that anybodys way to play isn’t worth a reward, because it’s not the way you like

I can say that farming isn’t worth a reward, not because I don’t like it, but because farming is bad for the game and it’s bad for the players.

beren.6048:

In any MMO time spent needs to be rewarded because players are content and if nobody logs in then you ll end up with an empty MMO

That’s a lie told by MMO developers to justify releasing mediocre, grind-based Skinner box and calling them “games”.

jheryn.8390:

Really? Where is your statistical evidence?

In the game. You don’t know what most players do. ArenaNet, in other hand, does. And what kind of content have they been releasing? Content to be grinded (Fractals of the Mists) and content to be farmed (the Southsun event, that was basically a few repetitive events that people could farm over and over with a 200% Magic Find buff).

The reason why ArenaNet can make content that is little more than badly disguised grind is because they, having the data on what most players do most of the time, know that most of the community is a bunch of grinders.

Devata.6589:

Normally rewards are based on time and / or skill. And I am not just talking about people and work (education (skill) and time) but the whole word. A tiger is hungry so he spends time hunting a deer. If he is skilled it will take him less time or he can catch more in the same time but still he gets rewarded for time and skills.

Wrong. A Chinese factory worker who works 12 hours per day 6 days a week is a lot like the so-called “dedicated” players, doing something simple and mindless over and over. Our factory worker does not get paid more than Steve Jobs did, though, despite how he worked less hours per week.

In real life, skill is rewarded significantly more than time spent. Grind is rewarded in MMOs to cater to the lowest denominators.

Erasculio.2914:

In real life, skill is rewarded significantly more than time spent. Grind is rewarded in MMOs to cater to the lowest denominators.

No, grind is rewarded because it can be easily monetized.

TrojanBallz.2359:

jheryn.8390:

Soulstar.7812:

OP: Let not reward people actually playing the game, but I love throwing my cash to get stuff in the box-lotto…

Go drunk, you’re home.

Are you grammar stunted? I think your last line refers to you.

Wow, talk about facetious and condescending! Relentless hijacking of threads that you personally disagree with for what? What do you get out of it? After taking a look through your post history a clear picture emerged. It is okay for you to post your concerns on things that you wanted changed in the game. But it is “stupid” for others to post their issues on things that bother them? Nor is it okay for others to disagree with you on any account or you simply underscore their opinion with an ad hominem attack? You said previously that you are in the business of Finance. With that said, you are obviously an Adult, correct? Do you treat others in the real world as you do here on the forums? Keep in mind, that at the end of the day, this is a video game. You should tone it down and allow free expression from others without constantly injecting your repeated disapproval. We get it. We really do. You love this game as many of us do. You have no issues with RNG. There is no need to personally attack others for having a different opinion. Agree to disagree and just move on. Be the bigger man/woman. My goodness!

Maybe you should read other peoples post too. I am pretty sure attacks come for both sides. The reason for coming on these threads is they get old. Look back through them all and see that it is different people coming on them and voicing their concerns the same as us. If you look at the post it is the same people complaining about RNG, why don’t you write a post about them. I guess it would be easier if these post didn’t come up 3 or 4 times a week because people feel they are entitled to something. But good job researching someone before hand. Also to your statement, “this is a video game” should also be directed at the people complaining also. But we can see where you stand on the discussion. So instead of calling out someone that has an opinion, which is still allowed here, just like the ones complaining, you could add something to the discussion that will continue it. It is better to have ideas come up, cause if you have read jheryns post you will see he has put ideas out there before. Also hijacking threads, that is funny, the way I see it is this is something we like in the game, so why shouldn’t we put our opinions out there just like the ones complaining.

Tolmos.8395:

fellyn.5083:

So time spent playing a game shouldn’t be rewarded according to you. What should we be rewarded for doing? Not playing the game?

Time spent should be rewarded. EXCESSIVE time spent should not.

No one would be rewarded for simply having more free time than someone else. That leads to exceptionally unhealthy personal habits, and people willing to sacrifice things in their personal lives for their games…

Yeah but unfortunately for us Anet made anything worth going for take excessive amounts of time to get. It really is a case of “don’t hate the player hate the game”.

Anet made it this way. The most we can do is kitten about it on the forums, for all the good it will do.

Jam.3258:

Erasculio.2914:

The worst RNG in the game is the one that rewards luck

There’s another sort?

Lol. That’s what I thought.

People need to stop arguing about this issue.
In any RPG/MMO styled game, there is a random/RNG/luck based loot system. Has been for a long time, and will continue. – Grinding, is in many of the same types of games, and all grinding is, is giving yourself a greater chance to get lucky. (By killing more mobs – for example – you have a higher chance to get loot).

If we are honest, most people do not like either of these, as people want guaranteed results in life. However, in game; These two systems, ARE needed. There is no other fair way for loot to drop. If we had mobs that had precise loot. 90% of the game would end up being neglected, and a spiral of needing to add more and more into the game as the items would become common would happen.

We need random drops in games for them to function. That is why they were made in the first place.

Gergolot.4217:

In any RPG/MMO styled game, there is a random/RNG/luck based loot system. Has been for a long time, and will continue.

MMORPGs have been mediocre for a very long time, with two of the main reasons being the grind, and players’ willingness to accept said grind.

And as far as people not being able to conceive a MMORPG without grind… I’m not going to repeat myself.

Erasculio.2914:

Wrong. A Chinese factory worker who works 12 hours per day 6 days a week is a lot like the so-called “dedicated” players, doing something simple and mindless over and over. Our factory worker does not get paid more than Steve Jobs did, though, despite how he worked less hours per week.

In real life, skill is rewarded significantly more than time spent. Grind is rewarded in MMOs to cater to the lowest denominators.

Yes, but why are you comparing a factory worker to Steve jobs? Sure, desirable skills as you put it is the deciding factor in being paid. But a factory worker that works more than another factory worker of the same job still gets paid more than the one that works less. The CEO that contributes more still gets contributed that the one that contributes much less in most cases. The homeless guy that spends more time panhandling is going to have more money.

That’s just deliberately ignoring one of the factors. Let’s just put it this way, for 99% of people not on the outliers, not “grinding” irl is going to land you on the streets, regardless of what skills you’ll have. In any case, the peasantry needs a way to get around.

Oh wait, why are we talking about RL anyways?

ArchonWing.9480:

Yes, but why are you comparing a factory worker to Steve jobs?

Because it’s the perfect metaphor for grinders. Factory workers are doing something mindless, easy and that they don’t even enjoy under the assumption that hey, they have to eat somehow, so of course they are expected to work like that to get money. Same thing with grinders – they are addict to a mediocre system in MMOs under the assumption that hey, grinding is part of MMOs, so of course they are expected to grind like that in order to get rewards.

Meanwhile, Steve Jobs did a hard, challenging work that he actually enjoyed, and got a reward for it bigger than anything the Chinese factory workers will ever have. It would be the in-game equivalent of giving players fun, challenging content and making it the main source of rewards in the game, as opposed to grinding.

In many ways, that’s also the difference between a teenager who skips college and ends up working in a fast food, claiming that he has to make money somehow and that will do…And a man who builds a career as a laywer or as a doctor, doing what he likes the way he likes, finding motivation in the experience of working as opposed to only in the salary he gets at the end of every month. I think part of the reason some people cannot understand why grind is a bad thing is how many MMORPG players are like the former, and not like the latter.

jheryn.8390:

tolunart.2095:

I think the complaints are mostly just coming from people who are used to having a clear advantage in other MMOs because of their chosen play style. Such as the problem with DR – you can wander through a zone all day long and do a variety of activities and never hit DR, or you can stand on a hill killing ettins for an hour and be punished for it. Some people don’t want to leave their comfort zone and think that if they complain about it loud and long enough, they won’t have to.

Ladies and Gentlemen there it is in a nutshell. A big, big +1 to you tolunart. And what these people complaining on the threads about RNG do not understand is that they are but a very small fraction of the player out there. ANet knows this. It isn’t as if ANet doesn’t care about their complaints, they just are not going to change their business structure for those unhappy that they can not get things the way they think they should be able to. I’m glad people like you and Hjorje are out there. Level headed and who exercise common sense.

Lol, most complains I here and the reason that people stop playing GW2 all comes down to the gem-store focus. The gold-driven system and the RNG has a lot to do with that.

How do you get anything in this game? Being lucky, farming gold (there are like 3 ways to do that) or buy money. Well, not a small part of the player base but a huge part does not like that. Why where so many people so enthusiastic about SAB and MF?

Because you where rewarded for our time and skill. MF still had a big RNG but IF that would not have been temporary that would not have been a problem. And strangely the only complain I hear about MF is that is was temporary. Is has nothing to do with the play-style of a few people that benefit from it in other games. Almost nobody likes to just farm for gold, or buy gems to get the stuff you need. Most people don’t like that they want multiple ways playing the game, getting that. Doing dungeons, doing JP’s, doing WvW or killing mobs but not farming for gold. using real money to buy it…. And then still having a big change of not getting it.

If you really think it’s just a small part of the people I can ensure you you are wrong. But we both don’t have the numbers to proof it.

Devata.6589:

Lol, most complains I here and the reason that people stop playing GW2 all comes down to the gem-store focus. The gold-driven system and the RNG has a lot to do with that.

How do you get anything in this game? Being lucky, farming gold (there are like 3 ways to do that) or buy money. Well, not a small part of the player base but a huge part does not like that. Why where so many people so enthusiastic about SAB and MF?

Because you where rewarded for our time and skill. MF still had a big RNG but IF that would not have been temporary that would not have been a problem. And strangely the only complain I hear about MF is that is was temporary. Is has nothing to do with the play-style of a few people that benefit from it in other games. Almost nobody likes to just farm for gold, or buy gems to get the stuff you need. Most people don’t like that they want multiple ways playing the game, getting that. Doing dungeons, doing JP’s, doing WvW or killing mobs but not farming for gold. using real money to buy it…. And then still having a big change of not getting it.

If you really think it’s just a small part of the people I can ensure you you are wrong. But we both don’t have the numbers to proof it.

This has to be one of the most delusional posts I’ve seen in a long time.

You get anything in this game by playing it. Dungeons give you plenty of tokens to buy gear, karma, guild missions, fractals, dailies…

It’s the cosmetic skins you are talking about, not the “stuff you need”. Stop lying already.

AntiGw.9367:

This has to be one of the most delusional posts I’ve seen in a long time.

You get anything in this game by playing it. Dungeons give you plenty of tokens to buy gear, karma, guild missions, fractals, dailies…

It’s the cosmetic skins you are talking about, not the “stuff you need”. Stop lying already.

This was supposed to be a game about cosmetic skins after all, not about stats. Which definitely makes good-looking skins “stuff you need”.

And originally all those better, rarer skins could have been acquired through consistently working towards them, without any significant RNG presence at all (with all those things you have mentioned before – dungeon tokens, karma, gold). Fractal skins were the first deviation from that path (and it’s not accident that the whole game direction changed at the same time, into far more grind and RNG reliant one).

Astralporing.1957:

And originally all those better, rarer skins could have been acquired through consistently working towards them, without any significant RNG presence at all (with all those things you have mentioned before – dungeon tokens, karma, gold). Fractal skins were the first deviation from that path (and it’s not accident that the whole game direction changed at the same time, into far more grind and RNG reliant one).

Very much this. thanks for stating I am really dissapointed to see the direction change. Then it was all if u see a particular set/item u like, u work towards it and in time u eventually get it. the challenge was probably in getting groups for it (ie: want the SE armor skins sets, need to find ppl for a dungeon not so many ppl run :P ). The new skins is all u run around hoping to get lucky. or rather run around to get boxes (which is chance based as well, though the recent one not so bad) and hope u get lucky when opening them

Erasculio.2914:

Meanwhile, Steve Jobs did a hard, challenging work that he actually enjoyed, and got a reward for it bigger than anything the Chinese factory workers will ever have. It would be the in-game equivalent of giving players fun, challenging content and making it the main source of rewards in the game, as opposed to grinding.

So the lesson here is… steal from Xerox, get bankrupt and bailed out by Microsoft, before getting lucky with the idea that maybe mp3 players would be a better idea than some ancient cd technology. Right then.

Of course the main problem is that this MMO (like most of them out there) won’t let you be a Steve Jobs. Unless the Steve Jobs game equivalent is the TP flipper, but i consider them as much of an aberration of the game idea as the farmers are.

Astralporing.1957:

Of course the main problem is that this MMO (like most of them out there) won’t let you be a Steve Jobs

Exactly.

/15chars

Who gives a kitten about those kittened boxes and skins… what about DR they slapped on everything. Kill 20 “insert anything” and 20 kills later they don’t drop anything … anything at all. Now thats kittened rng. Skins… pfft… who cares. When I was pleased with game I bought minis… after my amusement wore off and I got face full of kittenation anet calls necro I stopped feeding koreans.
Then again I’m huge cash shop hater as soon as I see anything that modifies gameplay. And yeah that includes bank space. Most of the stuff they have in cash shop is fine. Except for kittening bag and bank and character slots.

But as I said real kittening rng is DR on npc kills. I hate luck based crap as any other guy, I’m not lucky… never was. Even if I stand for you never know and everything is possible… im 99.9% sure I’ll never get precursor as a drop or for that matter anything worth mentioning. Meh… it happens… but with gay kitten system anet has in place for loot… I can’t even get mats for anything… or gold…
If you going to complain at least make an effort to put together a coherent list of cons/pros. Half the posts here are some inane garbage like… “Don’t reward farming because I don’t know… some obscure reason I thought about while I was taking a kitten” really?….

I’m fine with RNG, but not poorly implemented RNG. Defeating a champion and getting an exotic, or getting good loot at the end of a dungeon from the chest is something I enjoy. The problem I have with RNG is when it’s opening boxes for a seemingly impossible chance to get a ticket for a weaponskin I really like. There’s no fun in that there’s no challenge in that, and when there’s no alternative presented to it it’s downright horrible. And then they have the gal to make RNG boxes that people spend money on, with an extra .001% chance to get it?! The SAB setup was one of the best thing I’ve seen in this game, you actually did something fun to get the item you wanted and had a rare chance to get a version you could sell or give to somebody. Or just buy it off the TP if you had the gold. In what universe does somebody in an MMO want to open boxes all day for a rare item rather than playing the game and doing something challenging for it?

Also in MMO’s it’s generally accepted that if you spend more time playing the game the more reward you should be given. This however is done rather poorly in guildwars. I enjoy more challenging things like say fractals. But what’s the bloody point when somebody who just mindlessly runs CoF p1 a few times makes an insulting amount more than I could running a 30+ fractal that takes at least over an hour for an average run?

I’m currently playing a few games that have very little RNG in them and they are a lot more Entertaining..

Devata.6589:

jheryn.8390:

tolunart.2095:

I think the complaints are mostly just coming from people who are used to having a clear advantage in other MMOs because of their chosen play style. Such as the problem with DR – you can wander through a zone all day long and do a variety of activities and never hit DR, or you can stand on a hill killing ettins for an hour and be punished for it. Some people don’t want to leave their comfort zone and think that if they complain about it loud and long enough, they won’t have to.

Ladies and Gentlemen there it is in a nutshell. A big, big +1 to you tolunart. And what these people complaining on the threads about RNG do not understand is that they are but a very small fraction of the player out there. ANet knows this. It isn’t as if ANet doesn’t care about their complaints, they just are not going to change their business structure for those unhappy that they can not get things the way they think they should be able to. I’m glad people like you and Hjorje are out there. Level headed and who exercise common sense.

Lol, most complains I here and the reason that people stop playing GW2 all comes down to the gem-store focus. The gold-driven system and the RNG has a lot to do with that.

How do you get anything in this game? Being lucky, farming gold (there are like 3 ways to do that) or buy money. Well, not a small part of the player base but a huge part does not like that. Why where so many people so enthusiastic about SAB and MF?

Because you where rewarded for our time and skill. MF still had a big RNG but IF that would not have been temporary that would not have been a problem. And strangely the only complain I hear about MF is that is was temporary. Is has nothing to do with the play-style of a few people that benefit from it in other games. Almost nobody likes to just farm for gold, or buy gems to get the stuff you need. Most people don’t like that they want multiple ways playing the game, getting that. Doing dungeons, doing JP’s, doing WvW or killing mobs but not farming for gold. using real money to buy it…. And then still having a big change of not getting it.

If you really think it’s just a small part of the people I can ensure you you are wrong. But we both don’t have the numbers to proof it.

If you have another suggestion on how they can afford to keep the servers up without us needing to buy gems for cosmetic things that we want in the game, please by all means share it with the crowd. Otherwise, to get what you want, this game would have to switch to a subscription based system.

Tolmos.8395:

If you have another suggestion on how they can afford to keep the servers up without us needing to buy gems for cosmetic things that we want in the game, please by all means share it with the crowd

Using the same system seen in the original Guild Wars. This isn’t exactly hard to figure out.

Erasculio.2914:

Tolmos.8395:

If you have another suggestion on how they can afford to keep the servers up without us needing to buy gems for cosmetic things that we want in the game, please by all means share it with the crowd

Using the same system seen in the original Guild Wars. This isn’t exactly hard to figure out.

Except that it’s not the same thing as the original Guild Wars. You can’t possibly compare a lobby game to a full MMO and you certainly can’t compare a staff of 50 to a staff of over 300 people. Nor can you compare the speed at which content is provided, whether you like the content or not.

You could get away with very infrequent content up dates 8 years ago. It was a different world. Things have changed.

There’s too much competition. People need reasons to log in and since many people have finished the content, devs have to make MORE content. Because they make that content fast, it’s a mixed bag. And they need devs also for bug fixes and they need devs for longer term permanent content. Artists too.

Someone has to pay for that, and it’s not going to be box sales. Hence the current state of the cash shop.

Of course, its’ not the consumers problem that companies need money to run. But if companies don’t get the money to support the staff, they’ll lay off staff, upgrades and fixes will be less frequent, more people will leave the game or not log in each month and the expansion, when it finally comes out, won’t attract enough interest to keep the game going.

Guild Wars 1 could easily exist on a shoestring budget. Not so, Guild Wars 2.

Erasculio.2914:

Tolmos.8395:

If you have another suggestion on how they can afford to keep the servers up without us needing to buy gems for cosmetic things that we want in the game, please by all means share it with the crowd

Using the same system seen in the original Guild Wars. This isn’t exactly hard to figure out.

I hope you don’t own or manage a company. Just keep doing things the same way you did ten years ago is not the path to success.

tolunart.2095:

Erasculio.2914:

Tolmos.8395:

If you have another suggestion on how they can afford to keep the servers up without us needing to buy gems for cosmetic things that we want in the game, please by all means share it with the crowd

Using the same system seen in the original Guild Wars. This isn’t exactly hard to figure out.

I hope you don’t own or manage a company. Just keep doing things the same way you did ten years ago is not the path to success.

Actually it’s kinda ironic that you mention that Tol because that’s exactly what we’re seeing here when it comes to rewards.

Other companies stopped making everything strickly RNG years ago so essentially the grind system they have in place for anything in this game is something that started in 1999 really. (could be older) Even the boxes from the store thing, other game devs learned that putting more valuable items into these boxes and increasing the big items drop rates slightly improved their sales. Other game devs learned that activities in the game that give currency should be used for everything the player needs so they have a reward system for that currency.

We’re not seeing any of those things happen in this game with the essentials for gameplay. T6 mats are the hardest things to get in the game and instead of offering a direct buy solution they made even that RNG and on top of it all one of the boxes almost never drops anything (1 in 6 chance)

So it’s not that people want to grind to get what they need it’s currently the only method for people who don’t want to buy large sums of gems to convert to gold on a burst conversion day to get the things they need.

Anet knows this is a problem and they are working on the rewards system so I still have hope.

Oh and btw I hit DR when I’m simply doing my daily so that theory you had earlier doesn’t apply actually. Some people are basically stuck with permaDR and I just happen to have one of those accounts unfortunately.

tolunart.2095:

Erasculio.2914:

Tolmos.8395:

If you have another suggestion on how they can afford to keep the servers up without us needing to buy gems for cosmetic things that we want in the game, please by all means share it with the crowd

Using the same system seen in the original Guild Wars. This isn’t exactly hard to figure out.

I hope you don’t own or manage a company. Just keep doing things the same way you did ten years ago is not the path to success.

But thinking that everything thats ‘new’ is good just because it’s new and everything thats old is bad just because it is ‘old’ is also not a good quality for a manager.

I did not play enough GW1 to know how they did it, the the whole gem-store focus is scaring people away. Remembers, people that want F2P games for to a F2P game but people that want B2P go for B2P you know like GW2.

So they should focus on the B2P.. So the game and expansions. A gem-store as a nice extra (like it was the first few months) is fine but the focus is bad for the game. Scare people away and they will not pay anything anymore.

Devata.6589:

tolunart.2095:

Erasculio.2914:

Tolmos.8395:

If you have another suggestion on how they can afford to keep the servers up without us needing to buy gems for cosmetic things that we want in the game, please by all means share it with the crowd

Using the same system seen in the original Guild Wars. This isn’t exactly hard to figure out.

I hope you don’t own or manage a company. Just keep doing things the same way you did ten years ago is not the path to success.

But thinking that everything thats ‘new’ is good just because it’s new and everything thats old is bad just because it is ‘old’ is also not a good quality for a manager.

I did not play enough GW1 to know how they did it, the the whole gem-store focus is scaring people away. Remembers, people that want F2P games for to a F2P game but people that want B2P go for B2P you know like GW2.

So they should focus on the B2P.. So the game and expansions. A gem-store as a nice extra (like it was the first few months) is fine but the focus is bad for the game. Scare people away and they will not pay anything anymore.

There big question is, as always, what percentage of people are scared away, compared with a small percentage of people that spend stupid money on stuff.

A game can get away with a much smaller playerbase, if people are throwing money at it. So even if people are scared away it may not mean that much. It depends how many people are happy to pay.

In my opinion there are way too many of them.

tigirius.9014:

Oh and btw I hit DR when I’m simply doing my daily so that theory you had earlier doesn’t apply actually. Some people are basically stuck with permaDR and I just happen to have one of those accounts unfortunately.

No matter how many times you say this, it still will not become true.

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

tolunart.2095:

Erasculio.2914:

Tolmos.8395:

If you have another suggestion on how they can afford to keep the servers up without us needing to buy gems for cosmetic things that we want in the game, please by all means share it with the crowd

Using the same system seen in the original Guild Wars. This isn’t exactly hard to figure out.

I hope you don’t own or manage a company. Just keep doing things the same way you did ten years ago is not the path to success.

But thinking that everything thats ‘new’ is good just because it’s new and everything thats old is bad just because it is ‘old’ is also not a good quality for a manager.

I did not play enough GW1 to know how they did it, the the whole gem-store focus is scaring people away. Remembers, people that want F2P games for to a F2P game but people that want B2P go for B2P you know like GW2.

So they should focus on the B2P.. So the game and expansions. A gem-store as a nice extra (like it was the first few months) is fine but the focus is bad for the game. Scare people away and they will not pay anything anymore.

There big question is, as always, what percentage of people are scared away, compared with a small percentage of people that spend stupid money on stuff.

A game can get away with a much smaller playerbase, if people are throwing money at it. So even if people are scared away it may not mean that much. It depends how many people are happy to pay.

In my opinion there are way too many of them.

Well I don’t have the numbers but I have a big guild and I am active on 2 fan forums and this forums. Judging by that they scare away many people. And I know you see complainers more then none complainers but like I said, I am also active on some fan-sites / forums and I now see the real ‘fanboys’ saying they might leave soon. Besides that, once you lose players you will lose more players because they don’t want to be in empty worlds so it only get worse. I do think that in the short run they are indeed making some proper money with this tactic but if they keep doing this there is no long run and for an MMO the real profit is in the long run I would say.

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

tolunart.2095:

Erasculio.2914:

Tolmos.8395:

If you have another suggestion on how they can afford to keep the servers up without us needing to buy gems for cosmetic things that we want in the game, please by all means share it with the crowd

Using the same system seen in the original Guild Wars. This isn’t exactly hard to figure out.

I hope you don’t own or manage a company. Just keep doing things the same way you did ten years ago is not the path to success.

But thinking that everything thats ‘new’ is good just because it’s new and everything thats old is bad just because it is ‘old’ is also not a good quality for a manager.

I did not play enough GW1 to know how they did it, the the whole gem-store focus is scaring people away. Remembers, people that want F2P games for to a F2P game but people that want B2P go for B2P you know like GW2.

So they should focus on the B2P.. So the game and expansions. A gem-store as a nice extra (like it was the first few months) is fine but the focus is bad for the game. Scare people away and they will not pay anything anymore.

There big question is, as always, what percentage of people are scared away, compared with a small percentage of people that spend stupid money on stuff.

A game can get away with a much smaller playerbase, if people are throwing money at it. So even if people are scared away it may not mean that much. It depends how many people are happy to pay.

In my opinion there are way too many of them.

Well I don’t have the numbers but I have a big guild and I am active on 2 fan forums and this forums. Judging by that they scare away many people. And I know you see complainers more then none complainers but like I said, I am also active on some fan-sites / forums and I now see the real ‘fanboys’ saying they might leave soon. Besides that, once you lose players you will lose more players because they don’t want to be in empty worlds so it only get worse. I do think that in the short run they are indeed making some proper money with this tactic but if they keep doing this there is no long run and for an MMO the real profit is in the long run I would say.

But the people who post on forums also represent a very small percentage of the player base, and I know from long experience, it’s not necessarily indicative of most players. It’s just not that easy to look at specific subsets of the population and predict what the big population is doing.

Put it another way. Anet has exact figures on how many people stopped buying, how many people continue buying and how many people don’t log in. They KNOW. We’re guessing.

Don’t you think if their data showed you were right, they would change something?

Devata.6589:

But thinking that everything thats ‘new’ is good just because it’s new and everything thats old is bad just because it is ‘old’ is also not a good quality for a manager.

I did not play enough GW1 to know how they did it, the the whole gem-store focus is scaring people away. Remembers, people that want F2P games for to a F2P game but people that want B2P go for B2P you know like GW2.

So they should focus on the B2P.. So the game and expansions. A gem-store as a nice extra (like it was the first few months) is fine but the focus is bad for the game. Scare people away and they will not pay anything anymore.

Either extreme should be avoided, but it has to be said that GW2 is a completely different game, they really don’t share anything except the theme/lore and name.

If you drive a beat up old pickup truck for ten years, then win an expensive sports car in a contest, you can’t just expect to sit behind the wheel and drive it the same way you drove the truck. It’s a completely different machine, capable of doing new things but also incapable of doing some things you’re used to. You have to adjust your approach and your expectations.

The original game was an experiment in a different way of doing things, and so is this one. But they are very different games that need to be handled differently.

And I don’t think they are scaring anyone away from the cash shop. No company is going to build their business plan on the assumption that every player will spend money on the cash shop, the fact that you can convert in-game currency to gems means that some portion of the player base will NEVER spend a dime more than the cost of the box.

They have the sales records and such, we don’t. So it’s impossible to say how much people spend there, but we do have indications such as the spikes in gold-gems conversion when an item is introduced like the permanent harvesting tools, and the reports to stockholders about profits from different games. All indications are that this is a successful business model, so why would they throw it away to go back to something they did almost a decade ago?

tigirius.9014

Actually it’s kinda ironic that you mention that Tol because that’s exactly what we’re seeing here when it comes to rewards.

Other companies stopped making everything strickly RNG years ago so essentially the grind system they have in place for anything in this game is something that started in 1999 really. (could be older) Even the boxes from the store thing, other game devs learned that putting more valuable items into these boxes and increasing the big items drop rates slightly improved their sales. Other game devs learned that activities in the game that give currency should be used for everything the player needs so they have a reward system for that currency.
.

Yeah, the loot system in Rift is much better… like, the first person to “tag” an enemy in PvE play gets the loot, if you hit it second too bad. Or when you’re in a group and it randomly assigns loot to this person or that. Or even when something valuable drops – that you may or may not actually be able to use – then everyone gets to make a random roll to see who gets it.

Yeah, much better system, no RNG involved at all.

tolunart.2095:

Yeah, the loot system in Rift is much better… like, the first person to “tag” an enemy in PvE play gets the loot, if you hit it second too bad. Or when you’re in a group and it randomly assigns loot to this person or that. Or even when something valuable drops – that you may or may not actually be able to use – then everyone gets to make a random roll to see who gets it.

Yeah, much better system, no RNG involved at all.

That is better??? o.o

No thanks, not in my GW2…

At least there are new games that reward farming more, and focus less on just spam selling everything on tp for profit lol. GW2 is always changing, I’m sure it will get there sooner or later.

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

tolunart.2095:

Erasculio.2914:

Tolmos.8395:

If you have another suggestion on how they can afford to keep the servers up without us needing to buy gems for cosmetic things that we want in the game, please by all means share it with the crowd

Using the same system seen in the original Guild Wars. This isn’t exactly hard to figure out.

I hope you don’t own or manage a company. Just keep doing things the same way you did ten years ago is not the path to success.

But thinking that everything thats ‘new’ is good just because it’s new and everything thats old is bad just because it is ‘old’ is also not a good quality for a manager.

I did not play enough GW1 to know how they did it, the the whole gem-store focus is scaring people away. Remembers, people that want F2P games for to a F2P game but people that want B2P go for B2P you know like GW2.

So they should focus on the B2P.. So the game and expansions. A gem-store as a nice extra (like it was the first few months) is fine but the focus is bad for the game. Scare people away and they will not pay anything anymore.

There big question is, as always, what percentage of people are scared away, compared with a small percentage of people that spend stupid money on stuff.

A game can get away with a much smaller playerbase, if people are throwing money at it. So even if people are scared away it may not mean that much. It depends how many people are happy to pay.

In my opinion there are way too many of them.

Well I don’t have the numbers but I have a big guild and I am active on 2 fan forums and this forums. Judging by that they scare away many people. And I know you see complainers more then none complainers but like I said, I am also active on some fan-sites / forums and I now see the real ‘fanboys’ saying they might leave soon. Besides that, once you lose players you will lose more players because they don’t want to be in empty worlds so it only get worse. I do think that in the short run they are indeed making some proper money with this tactic but if they keep doing this there is no long run and for an MMO the real profit is in the long run I would say.

But the people who post on forums also represent a very small percentage of the player base, and I know from long experience, it’s not necessarily indicative of most players. It’s just not that easy to look at specific subsets of the population and predict what the big population is doing.

Put it another way. Anet has exact figures on how many people stopped buying, how many people continue buying and how many people don’t log in. They KNOW. We’re guessing.

Don’t you think if their data showed you were right, they would change something?

If I am right they make a lot of money now, but it would be bad in the long run. So if they focus mostly on there current income then no they would not change something. I think it’s more about logical thinking then the current numbers. While people leave also new people are comming. They numbers do not show what people are leaving and what for a people are comming. A slow decrease in active numbers can be easily be waved away because they are making more money now. So it all depends on the focus of the manager(s) how they would react on some numbers. BTW it’s more NCSoft is a Public company so you might be able to get those numbers if you really want them.. I mean buy stocks and you are basically one of the managers.

Geotherma.2395:

At least there are new games that reward farming more, and focus less on just spam selling everything on tp for profit lol. GW2 is always changing, I’m sure it will get there sooner or later.

The biggest problem/benefit is that the TP is multi-server. Take a couple million players and dump everything they want to sell into one pot, and it’s going to get crowded quickly. More competition means that prices drop quickly, leading to a buyer’s market. The only defense is to keep things very very rare, like precursor weapons and limited-time items that are only available in small quantities.

The second biggest problem is crafting – nodes are usable by everyone, not just the first person to get to it, so the market is flooded with crafting mats and its use in leveling means that a lot of people end up with crafted goods they don’t need, and sell them on the TP.

There’s simply more of almost everything than people need, and those things that are rare are the things everyone wants, and people complain that they can’t get them because they are rare.

If they weren’t so rare you’d have rares and exotics selling for 1c above vendor price, as well, and LA would be painted black from all the toons swinging Twilight around.

Devata.6589:

If I am right they make a lot of money now, but it would be bad in the long run. So if they focus mostly on there current income then no they would not change something. I think it’s more about logical thinking then the current numbers. While people leave also new people are comming. They numbers do not show what people are leaving and what for a people are comming. A slow decrease in active numbers can be easily be waved away because they are making more money now. So it all depends on the focus of the manager(s) how they would react on some numbers. BTW it’s more NCSoft is a Public company so you might be able to get those numbers if you really want them.. I mean buy stocks and you are basically one of the managers.

But, as a publicly traded company, are the people in charge more concerned with this quarter, or ten years from now? What about the stockholders?

tolunart.2095:

Devata.6589:

But thinking that everything thats ‘new’ is good just because it’s new and everything thats old is bad just because it is ‘old’ is also not a good quality for a manager.

I did not play enough GW1 to know how they did it, the the whole gem-store focus is scaring people away. Remembers, people that want F2P games for to a F2P game but people that want B2P go for B2P you know like GW2.

So they should focus on the B2P.. So the game and expansions. A gem-store as a nice extra (like it was the first few months) is fine but the focus is bad for the game. Scare people away and they will not pay anything anymore.

And I don’t think they are scaring anyone away from the cash shop. No company is going to build their business plan on the assumption that every player will spend money on the cash shop, the fact that you can convert in-game currency to gems means that some portion of the player base will NEVER spend a dime more than the cost of the box.

They have the sales records and such, we don’t. So it’s impossible to say how much people spend there, but we do have indications such as the spikes in gold-gems conversion when an item is introduced like the permanent harvesting tools, and the reports to stockholders about profits from different games. All indications are that this is a successful business model, so why would they throw it away to go back to something they did almost a decade ago?

I think you misunderstand me. I don’t say the cash shop is scaring people away. I say the focus on that is. And with that I mean decisions made in the game that are made to try to get people to use the cash shop. The gold-driven stuff, the RNG, and the temporary available content in the gem-store.

And yes we can get those numbers if we want and yes they are making money but what is there focus about that. Making money now or making money in the long run? The whole financial crisis showed that many managers where only looking in the short run so who tells me thats not the case here?

tolunart.2095:

Devata.6589:

If I am right they make a lot of money now, but it would be bad in the long run. So if they focus mostly on there current income then no they would not change something. I think it’s more about logical thinking then the current numbers. While people leave also new people are comming. They numbers do not show what people are leaving and what for a people are comming. A slow decrease in active numbers can be easily be waved away because they are making more money now. So it all depends on the focus of the manager(s) how they would react on some numbers. BTW it’s more NCSoft is a Public company so you might be able to get those numbers if you really want them.. I mean buy stocks and you are basically one of the managers.

But, as a publicly traded company, are the people in charge more concerned with this quarter, or ten years from now? What about the stockholders?

Well, thats the question isn’t it.

If it was my company I would go for the long run but this company is from ‘nobody’ or form ‘everybody’ so those making the decisions might be more interested in the short run.

I think Anet isn’t.. If I am correct Anet is basically a private company that now ‘works for NCsoft’ so us talking about this might help, but in the end NCsoft makes the decisions.

I understand and disagree.

Of course they are not focused on the long run. A subscription-based MMO is focused on the long run because they make their money from X players paying monthly fees for Y months. The longer they get players to stay on the hamster wheel, the more money they make.

Cash-shop based games are focused on the short term, because if you aren’t interested in the Jade weapons set, then the Steampunk weapons set might get you to whip out your credit card. Or the next set, or the next. When they run out of interesting things to sell you, the game is over.

tolunart.2095:

I understand and disagree.

Of course they are not focused on the long run. A subscription-based MMO is focused on the long run because they make their money from X players paying monthly fees for Y months. The longer they get players to stay on the hamster wheel, the more money they make.

Cash-shop based games are focused on the short term, because if you aren’t interested in the Jade weapons set, then the Steampunk weapons set might get you to whip out your credit card. Or the next set, or the next.

Yeah but There are subscription-based games, there are F2P games (Cash-shops) and there are B2P games. I would say B2P games should go for the long run and GW2 is a B2P game but with there current focus on the cash-shop it indeed looks like they are more or more focusing on the long run probably not understanding that by doing that they might destroy it for them-self in the long run. Now it is not to late yet but it’s really time to start rethinking there actions and hopefully they will do that in time.

It is like all those subscription-based MMO’s of the last few years.. The people behind that did see Blizz getting very very rich with that so they also focused on that, not understanding that it would not work anymore. Now all? those games failed (I personally can’t name one of them that has not been going F2P or totally stopped by now) so the wrong focus does more harm then good.

tolunart.2095:

Erasculio.2914:

Tolmos.8395:

If you have another suggestion on how they can afford to keep the servers up without us needing to buy gems for cosmetic things that we want in the game, please by all means share it with the crowd

Using the same system seen in the original Guild Wars. This isn’t exactly hard to figure out.

I hope you don’t own or manage a company. Just keep doing things the same way you did ten years ago is not the path to success.

And changing a successful model for the sake of change is not the path to success, either. Unless that’s how you run your own successful company?

And for the records…

tolunart.2095:

The second biggest problem is crafting – nodes are usable by everyone, not just the first person to get to it, so the market is flooded with crafting mats and its use in leveling means that a lot of people end up with crafted goods they don’t need, and sell them on the TP.

…So your solution is to make crafting nodes work like they did in games released ten years ago? I see.