Guild Wars 2

maddoctor.2738:

Olvendred.3027:

Vol.7601:

These changes are great and exactly what people wanted when they asked for horizontal progression.

Levelling is, pretty much by definition, vertical progression.

The changes are about traits though not leveling. And traits are a mix of vertical (on which level they are unlocked) and horizontal (when/how to unlock them)

The OP is talking about levelling. Specifically, at what levels you unlock trait points. Try reading the first post before you jump into a thread.

this is a good change, too bad it wasnt on release….

I think this will only make things harder for new players. With this, and the dead maps they encounter when truly exploring and trying to level up (as was originally meant via exploring) they are going to find things truly difficult without the trait line bonuses.

Then again those who run with the zergs farming Queensdale wont have anything to worry about I guess…. :s

PS, we wont be getting refunds will we for all those gold that we spent on our manuals? :P

overall it’s a good change, but for new players leveling a mesmer as the first character will be even more painful

I’m happy that traits will be free and easy to reset, and I like that you no longer have to buy books to unlock each tier.

I don’t, however, like that I have to wait 6 levels between each trait point, or that I have to wait until level 30 to unlock traits at all (early levels will now, for me, be extremely boring).

I, personally, also dislike the idea of having to do specific things to unlock traits. I can see why this change is happening, but I don’t like it and would prefer the unlocking system to remain more similar to how the current system is.

Paulytnz.7619:

PS, we wont be getting refunds will we for all those gold that we spent on our manuals? :P

Yes, in the form of having all existing traits already unlocked in the new system.

This is a good change. Players just steamroll low level content at the moment. This will actually mean they will have to learn how to play in the early levels and then they will quickly ramp up in power at the later levels when they already know how to play the game.

Good change imo. Would have been nice with some more elite skills as well.

chemiclord.3978:

I can’t say I like the “unlocking” mechanism at all.

I thought it was inane and stupid in GW1, and I don’t see how it’s going to be any better in GW2, especially if they start adding a bunch of traits. I hated having to hunt down a specific boss to find an elite I HAD to have if I was going to be accepted into GW1’s group play. I’m going to loathe it if it starts becoming prevalent in GW2 as well.

You don’t have to hunt them down if you don’t want to.

You can also just buy them:

As excited as we are to let players earn traits with feats of bravery and cunning, we know not everyone is the exploring or adventure type—which is why we’ve included the option for you to buy trait guides from profession trainers! The cost of current traits varies based on the tier of that trait. Newly added traits to the game will be set at a higher price point.

Healix.5819:

Paulytnz.7619:

PS, we wont be getting refunds will we for all those gold that we spent on our manuals? :P

Yes, in the form of having all existing traits already unlocked in the new system.

I figured that was the counter balance but hey it was worth a shot! Don’t try and take away my free shinies!

skullmount.1758:

There is also the item, so that people who don’t want to (or don’t have the time) do the specific task can still unlock it. They just go buy the item and it gives them it.

they could have just made you buy it through the UI like bagslots etc.

it may be that they sell guides like they do unlock books atm, but that doesn’t explain why they specifically mention getting the items in the world and not from a vendor

I’m not too keen on the changes. And I don’t really like the sound of having to do specific things for specific traits. That doesn’t sound like being allowed to level any way I want to at all (I realise I can buy the traits, but this will mollify me once I know the cost and if it’s not like 20 gold). Also, the whole point of having access to several major traits at once is that it’s fun to experiment with my build and see which trait works in a matter of minutes. If I have to go and do some task each time I wan to change, then I don’t personally think that will do much except make me not want to bother.

But, all that said, I am willing to see what will happen and how things will pan out. Though I might make a few new characters I want to play before this is implemented, just in case, lol.

I have to agree that level 30 is rather late. It will definitely make the leveling experience more boring, more so on certain classes than on others.

I mean I can see it being OK on a warrior who already has plenty of weapon options to play around but not necessarly on a thief, necro and mesmer.

It could be less fun for some players. But tbh this is so small. People will be on their level 80 a lot more than on their underlevel and for me it was once i was my level 80 that i begin to really experiment.

Maybe something like that would be better. You have 14 pts to get. You start at level 15 and get 1 pts each 5 levels. That way, you don’t have to wait much time to get into trait and its way more easier to remember when you gonna have your next trait. Each 6 level can be confusion for new players.

Anyway, i don’t see it as a big deal, and the important stuff they get it right (except the lack of trait template).

skullmount.1758:

Shadow Blade.1324:

maddoctor.2738:

Shadow Blade.1324:

maddoctor.2738:

As I said on the other thread, check the PICTURE on the trait unlocks. It says “Defeat the Risen High Wizard” there is no drop chance. You either do the event associated with the trait or pay money to the trainer.

thats the requirement for one trait,

Major traits will now be unlocked via traits guides, a new in-game item. Double-clicking on a trait guide will unlock its associated trait. You can find trait guides by completing specific content in the world

the fact that its an item means there will be a drop rate

It says “You can find trait guides by completing specific content in the world” there is no indication that it is a drop.

As in, complete the content and get it

read back to the top where it says

traits guides, a new in-game item

if its an automatic unlock why the item?
they could just give you points to allocate how you please, or automatically unlock it once you have met the requerements, no need at all for an item.
the fact that they are specifying its an item indicates there will be a drop rate, on some encounters for some guides that may well be 100%, but i doubt it will be for all of them anet uses rng too frequently for me to believe it wont be present here.

There is also the item, so that people who don’t want to (or don’t have the time) do the specific task can still unlock it. They just go buy the item and it gives them it.

This ^^ There is also an item. The wording is “you get the trait by completing the content” not by grinding it. It wouldn’t make any sense to have the trait books as RNG drops

The new traits make it look like they’re creating a real clear separation between offense and defense. The elementalist’s trait is a typical healer’s skill for example.

… and then tomorrow they’re revealing “The Art of Combat” and “Critical!”

Perhaps big changes are coming.

Shadow Blade.1324:

they could have just made you buy it through the UI like bagslots etc.

it may be that they sell guides like they do unlock books atm, but that doesn’t explain why they specifically mention getting the items in the world and not from a vendor

They’re giving players a choice on how to unlock the Traits:

• Through exploring and hunting them down
• Going to a vendor and buying them

As excited as we are to let players earn traits with feats of bravery and cunning, we know not everyone is the exploring or adventure type—which is why we’ve included the option for you to buy trait guides from profession trainers! The cost of current traits varies based on the tier of that trait. Newly added traits to the game will be set at a higher price point.

Healix.5819:

The new traits make it look like they’re creating a real clear separation between offense and defense. The elementalist’s trait is a typical healer’s skill for example.

… and then tomorrow they’re revealing “The Art of Combat” and “Critical!”

Perhaps big changes are coming.

Won’t the Critical! one be about the Ferocity changes? Or has that already been implemented?

I agree so much with this! Leveling has been made pointlessly grindy. I just texted my boyfriend saying that “if you want to level do it before April 15th” and he just responded with being put off from the game now. And well so am I. Yes I have a lot of level 80s. Yes, I like reseting traits on the fly. However the damage done to the leveling experience is so huge that I don’t really feel like playing anymore. This game does not need grinding. At all.

I’m just lucky I have all classes now at lvl 80 with everything unlocked. I seriously wonder how many people will now make new alts and rush them to 80 to unlock everything before these changes come in, I would like to see the stats from Anet on that. Psst Anet, NOW might be a good time to do a price special for char slots!

This is … pretty awful.

Oh, don’t get me wrong, the free resetting of traits at any time is great. Not needing books to unlock trait levels is good too. 5 new Grandmaster traits per class? Depends on the traits, some of them may be awesome.

But the “Horizontal Progression” they’re playing with here is just nerfing what we currently have, then making us work to overcome the changes. They’re also pushing traits back to higher levels, making lower level characters weaker and slowing their leveling. This isn’t progress, people, it’s a game-wide nerf. You might feel it the least if you’re already level 80, but it’s still a huge hit to everyone’s characters.

I was under the impression that people wanted NEW SKILLS that they could go out and earn. Instead, they’ve given us a system where we have to go out and unlock the same old traits we already had. New Grandmaster traits are nice and all, but for levels 11-79, they don’t matter.

ive also just noticed they haven’t specified whether all traits will remain free in spvp

since they have made the new healing skills require unlocks

does this mean we will now have to buy traits as well as skills in Spvp?

CrossedHorse.4261:

I, personally, also dislike the idea of having to do specific things to unlock traits. I can see why this change is happening, but I don’t like it and would prefer the unlocking system to remain more similar to how the current system is.

It makes exploration more rewarding and exciting, and creates new opportunities for Anet to add new permanent content in the open world too.

What feels better for you, to get a new sword trait after fighting a swordsman in an epic fight, or to simply “unlock” it via a menu and then “explore” the world for more generic gold/ karma?

This new hunting system greatly enhances the value of exploration and world immersion, something that was lacking in this game.

Shadow Blade.1324:

skullmount.1758:

There is also the item, so that people who don’t want to (or don’t have the time) do the specific task can still unlock it. They just go buy the item and it gives them it.

they could have just made you buy it through the UI like bagslots etc.

it may be that they sell guides like they do unlock books atm, but that doesn’t explain why they specifically mention getting the items in the world and not from a vendor

It’s probably to conserve effort and resources. The trait book item will probably exist on the vendor, so the same item is awarded for completion of the event. It was probably faster to do it this way.

Btw.: Does anyone else has the feeling we get the China-System here ?

So next news is, that weapon Skill unlocks are level-bound, and we have to autoattack just through the first levels maybe, and we get our elite-skills at what was it .. 50 ?

DiogoSilva.7089:

CrossedHorse.4261:

I, personally, also dislike the idea of having to do specific things to unlock traits. I can see why this change is happening, but I don’t like it and would prefer the unlocking system to remain more similar to how the current system is.

It makes exploration more rewarding and exciting, and creates new opportunities for Anet to add new permanent content in the open world too.

What feels better for you, to get a new sword trait after fighting a swordsman in an epic fight, or to simply “unlock” it via a menu and then “explore” the world for more generic gold/ karma?

This new hunting system greatly enhances the value of exploration and world immersion, something that was lacking in this game.

Like I said, I can see what’s intended by it. But I can also see the other side where suddenly I have to go and do this specific event that I don’t want to do because I would like to try that trait (note, try, not even get because maybe I don’t know what it does properly yet).

I realise, that you can just buy the traits, and perhaps I’ll not mind so much if the traits aren’t hugely expensive to buy. Just erring on the side of caution though – I imagine they’ll be available for golds rather than silvers, which is not so fun. And, sadly, buying them, when previously I could just unlock them isn’t so appealing.

But, I shall wait and see. Mostly, I dislike the having to wait until level 30 to unlock any traits at all. And I would prefer to unlock a trait per level, rather than every 6. But, as with any change, we’ll get used to it.

Palador.2170:

This is … pretty awful.

Oh, don’t get me wrong, the free resetting of traits at any time is great. Not needing books to unlock trait levels is good too. 5 new Grandmaster traits per class? Depends on the traits, some of them may be awesome.

But the “Horizontal Progression” they’re playing with here is just nerfing what we currently have, then making us work to overcome the changes. They’re also pushing traits back to higher levels, making lower level characters weaker and slowing their leveling. This isn’t progress, people, it’s a game-wide nerf. You might feel it the least if you’re already level 80, but it’s still a huge hit to everyone’s characters.

I was under the impression that people wanted NEW SKILLS that they could go out and earn. Instead, they’ve given us a system where we have to go out and unlock the same old traits we already had. New Grandmaster traits are nice and all, but for levels 11-79, they don’t matter.

I think you missed some parts of the article…

Nothing is changing for current level 80’s. you keep all your current unlocked traits. Only new characters will have to earn them. Also we are getting new skills. Each class is getting 5 new traits, not replacements or reworks, brand new.

Level 30 makes sense.
The first 30 levels you’re learning how to fight against mobs, mobs with different abillities, how to dodge, how to use your weapon skills and weapon switching, how conditions work, how boons work etc. Then there’s crafting, harvesting, collecting, events, meta events, personal story, jumping puzzles etc.

At level 30 dungeons become available.

The thing i have wish for is one option to save trait builds, that seems to still be not there and we need to reset and make it again.

Beldin.5498:

Btw.: Does anyone else has the feeling we get the China-System here ?

So next news is, that weapon Skill unlocks are level-bound, and we have to autoattack just through the first levels maybe, and we get our elite-skills at what was it .. 50 ?

with the dyes being available only in the gem store and grind increasing it smells very much like China. I do not like this one bit. If they successfully implement everything they will lose me as a customer. Screw it, there are many other MMOs that I can be playing.

Mirta.5029:

with the dyes being available only in the gem store and grind increasing it smells very much like China. I do not like this one bit. If they successfully implement everything they will lose me as a customer. Screw it, there are many other MMOs that I can be playing.

Where did they say that dyes will only be in the Gemstore now?

TheDaiBish.9735:

Mirta.5029:

with the dyes being available only in the gem store and grind increasing it smells very much like China. I do not like this one bit. If they successfully implement everything they will lose me as a customer. Screw it, there are many other MMOs that I can be playing.

Where did they say that dyes will only be in the Gemstore now?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Features-Patch-15-4-14/first

Read the Q/A. They are taking a really bad direction with the game.

Max Lexandre.6279:

The thing i have wish for is one option to save trait builds, that seems to still be not there and we need to reset and make it again.

Jareth.4813:

I’m sure it’s coming, but not seeing any mention of save-able trait builds was a little disappointing.

We need this!

TheDaiBish.9735:

Mirta.5029:

with the dyes being available only in the gem store and grind increasing it smells very much like China. I do not like this one bit. If they successfully implement everything they will lose me as a customer. Screw it, there are many other MMOs that I can be playing.

Where did they say that dyes will only be in the Gemstore now?

China press release, they also said they wanted to implement here in NA/EU. It’s over on reddit somewhere if you want to see it yourself.

I love the change to finding traits. It’s similar to Guild Wars 1 and would give a reason to go out in the world, dungeons, WvW and get something meaningful in return.

Major traits will now be unlocked via traits guides, a new in-game item. Double-clicking on a trait guide will unlock its associated trait. You can find trait guides by completing specific content in the world, like story dungeons, minidungeons, WvW, personal story, specific bosses, and discovering certain areas on the world map.

But then we come to the next bit, which basically tosses that entire idea out of the window.

As excited as we are to let players earn traits with feats of bravery and cunning, we know not everyone is the exploring or adventure type—which is why we’ve included the option for you to buy trait guides from profession trainers! The cost of current traits varies based on the tier of that trait. Newly added traits to the game will be set at a higher price point.

Basically, players might as well keep doing what we do right now, farm gold and be done with it. The initial change would actually force us to explore or do something else for a change. It would also give players something extra to do with their alts when they’d reach the maximum level. Why put in anything that requires effort and at the same time put something in that trivializes it.

With this nothing will be changed about people just sitting in the capitol cities and not doing any of the world events.

Enough with the whining already!

They’re killing the 14/14/14/14/14 build. What ever happened to I play how I want…?

Zoid.2568:

Level 30 makes sense.
The first 30 levels you’re learning how to fight against mobs, mobs with different abillities, how to dodge, how to use your weapon skills and weapon switching, how conditions work, how boons work etc. Then there’s crafting, harvesting, collecting, events, meta events, personal story, jumping puzzles etc.

At level 30 dungeons become available.

Lol, you can learn most of that in the first 10 levels (which was why level 11 for your first trait was good). And in a dungeon, a current level 30 will have 29 traits. A new level 30 under this system would only have 1, being the equivalent, according to what I’ve read, of 5? Yeah, not feeling positive, but will wait and see.

This is a good gold sink… and who said anything about 1g?

I suspect the new high end grandmaster traits will be minimum 100g each.

and completely kitten pvp players?

Max Lexandre.6279:

The thing i have wish for is one option to save trait builds, that seems to still be not there and we need to reset and make it again.

Although the save/load system would be awesome, there will also be a “-” button to make it easier to lower how many traits you have on each line, so if you missclick for example you won’t have to reset all your traits.
Also, with only 14 traits to allocate it won’t be so click-heavy anymore.

Max Lexandre.6279:

The thing i have wish for is one option to save trait builds, that seems to still be not there and we need to reset and make it again.

It’s certainly not there yet, however, it’s pretty clear that it’ll exist someday.

A build template system is meant to exist someday in pvp, or so has anet said several months ago. When asked if that would also come for pve, their answer was that, because the traiting works very different in pve compared to pvp, it would create some difficulties.

However, traiting will now work the same across all modes (with the possible exception of unlocking), which opens the way for a game-wide build saving/ loading system.

Reading through the first part…I think lv30 is kind of a long time to wait for traits, but what I really DO NOT LIKE is the part about people being able to change traits on the fly. This is part of what made diablo 3 so BAD BAD BAD, that ability to change traits/skills at any time.

Can you imagine how WvW play will be totally ruined by being able to retrait while out of combat? I can: people will be constantly running away to change traits, and thief will be at the forefront of the whinefest that will be “Wah it’s so easy for thief to get OOC and retrait, easier than any other profession wahh”

However, at the same time, all the players out there will see a thief and adjust to an anti-thief traitline they found on the forum.

Thief will get completely trashed by both parts. Also, WvW gameplay in general will get very messy.

Do NOT allow free trait alteration anytime you are out of combat in WvW. DO NOT! It’s fine in PvE, absolutely and totally fine there…but NOT WvW! If you allow this to happen in the WvW environment, there will be so much abuse of it and the lack of semi-permenancy (having to go to home base and buy a retrait) will really kill the feeling AND fun. It’s hard to describe, but if things are so free to be remade all the time it seems to make games less fun and feel more like a casual thing.

To prevent a game from feeling too casual, you MUST force things like trait adjustment to require a visit to the shop or something else.

I repeat: do NOT do this part of the trait system adjustment!

Why not keep it for PvP as it is now? Enter the mists and you get all relevant abilities unlocked. It’s not like you’ll be able to use all abilities all of a sudden anyway.

And even with the vendor, not getting all abilities unlocked in sPvP by default would be terrible. Especially considering that sPvP is supposed to offer an even play field, where everyone (still) has the same stats regardless of PvE progression.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

This is a good gold sink… and who said anything about 1g?

I suspect the new high end grandmaster traits will be minimum 100g each.

Sure, if they really were 100g I wouldn’t mind it one bit. I guess the major concern is that they would become too cheap.

I can definitely see the trait guide being rewarded in a splash reward for accomplishing some content goal. I can also see the guide being sold in Gem store for folks who don’t have in-game gold to buy it or time to do the content. If it weren’t an item, it couldn’t go in the Gem store, which is a primary driver for these things to be items.
I’m very glad to see the removal of the trait reset fee. Who knows what kind of crazy builds I might feel like playing. I did that often in GW1 because there was no monetary penalty for changing things up.
The requirement for hunting down traits in the game world content is interesting. So long as they do not all require a group to complete and some can be solo’d, this would provide a fun incentive to explore the world.
I’ll also voice my dislike of the delay in trait points to lvl30. Traits were what kept leveling interesting at the beginning, since you learn the weapon skills so blindingly fast (so fast, why are they even locked to begin with?) and then there’s nothing new to develop your character aside from gear upgrades. That makes a large hiatus between lvl10 or so and lvl30.

Wait for the full picture. This isn’t the only change coming with the update. I’m guessing the changes with skill points and probably some other systems will make the early progression quite different.

I love the idea of horizontal progression unlocked by actually doing content in the game world…I love that it will be easy for them to add a greater variety of traits for players to choose from. This system is definitely a step in the right direction.

That ranger trait makes me really excited to try it out.

Malchior.5042:

Shadow Blade.1324:

skullmount.1758:

There is also the item, so that people who don’t want to (or don’t have the time) do the specific task can still unlock it. They just go buy the item and it gives them it.

they could have just made you buy it through the UI like bagslots etc.

it may be that they sell guides like they do unlock books atm, but that doesn’t explain why they specifically mention getting the items in the world and not from a vendor

It’s probably to conserve effort and resources. The trait book item will probably exist on the vendor, so the same item is awarded for completion of the event. It was probably faster to do it this way.

thats probably the reasoning between using the same item.
but if its not RNG it defeats the purpose of getting people out to old content again.

after patch itll be just like the last few living story releases where people clear it in the first few days and then its mostly dead again, which will screw over new and leveling players as they wont be able to clear Balthazar etc without a big zerg which will have moved back to whatever it was farming before or whatever they’re pushing as the new season LS focus

so they will be stuck farming gold to buy it.

Well there is a need for people to buy the books, in case they don’t like the content associated with that trait. Having more options isn’t bad, power hungry players will probably pay for their traits, but lots of players won’t.

As for PVP, they should either have all major traits unlocked in PVP, OR make them unlockable in PVP as well. PVP players don’t need any extra incentive to go to PVE, there are loads already there, on the other hand, allowing players to unlock major traits in PVP would offer a third option for trait unlocks, win-win

Thaddeus.4891:

Maybe something like that would be better. You have 14 pts to get. You start at level 15 and get 1 pts each 5 levels. That way, you don’t have to wait much time to get into trait and its way more easier to remember when you gonna have your next trait. Each 6 level can be confusion for new players.

That would have been a LOT better, and pretty logical. I’m honestly confused by the fact that they didn’t do it, and went with this other way of doing it instead.

Pls wait at least until friday and the ready up livestream before giving rude comments about the patch, you don’t know how exactly everything will play together.

They have to give an alternative method. They can’t force people into doing dungeon, PvP, hard solo content, etc. It would only cause even more problems. In a system where everyone is meant to be at relatively the same power, not offering an alternative would simply be unfair.

For example, imagine having the best trait locked behind Liadri without offering an alternative.