Guild Wars 2

I agree 100%.
I also had though since Beta that combining stats with weapons and armor would limit peoples roles.
Alas, it is what it is and will never change

I would like there to be a seperate tab for point allocation so that I can buff (for example) my elementalists earth spells without contributing so much to toughness. But overall I dont dislike this system too much

Tying stats to trait lines was a horrible mistake. All it does is reduce the number of viable builds. Too late now.

I personally liked the system GW1 had far more.

What made GW1 great was them questioning the conventions of an MMO, and is the reason why you see so many unique systems which ended up working for the better. GW2 attempted to do the same, but they also took traditional systems from other games seemingly without much question, magic find as an equipment stat being a great example which was thankfully removed.

But there are plenty of out of place and inferior systems still in place, stats on equipment and trait lines being one of them. There are far better ways to handle stat distribution and customization than what they decided to go with.

What worked in Gw1 is in part thanks to the game having the “old trinity” set in place to force team comps and allow for disparities between builds. a group could succeed easily or fall apart completely just by keeping everyone alive in combat.

Gw1 was also very skill based, and had some complex math and less than straight forward fall out to contemplate to create fulling working buidls and teams.

The simple but robust Trait point system in Gw1 was the way to balance and confine the mass of Skills, which were the true stars of the combat and the core of the game play.

Gw2 has turned that on its face entirely which has showed the glaring issues with the old system it replaced trinity with. Lump Stat numbers.

The trait system for Gw2 was a good move, allowing it to also change how skills and game play was handled by the player. I love the CONCEPT of the Gw2 trait system.

I appreciate limiting skills to prevent impossible to balance and the steep learning curve of Gw1.

I less appriciate the removal of enchantmets and hexes and the reworking of conditions

but where all these systems fall apart ontop of one another and are either kitten or gutted is the replacement of player skill and thought of Skills ore builds by Stat points.

Stat points often do not leave room or atleast, much room, for creativity to flow or necessity to drive players to create with other tools. It leaves little room for an expansive base of options on skills and further options on those skills.

I would have hoped for the Gw1 skill/build system with the more expansive Gw2 trait system to come together but as is common with Anet, they’ve gone from one extreme to another and missed that golden middle ground..

truth is, yeah the stat system in gw1 was way better now that we have gotten to play with gw2. there are many flaws that i dont think can be solved with this stat system. This stat system is based on trinity type play, but the game is based on control support and dps. For the most part this stat system is about setting length of fight versus how easy it is to die.

In hind sight, i can say a stat system more based around this games mechanics/playstyles would have been a better system

It could also walk on water, make the blind see, and miraculously survived an assassination attempt by Claus von Stauffenberg.

Are we complaining for the sake of complaining again?

The GW1 system was designed for a completely different game with a completely different type of “average player” playing it.

This system we have now – both stat-wise and skill-wise is designed to be as “dummy proof” as possible so terribly bad people can still perform and don’t drop the game.

That’s the short answer.

Harper.4173:

The GW1 system was designed for a completely different game with a completely different type of “average player” playing it.

This system we have now – both stat-wise and skill-wise is designed to be as “dummy proof” as possible so terribly bad people can still perform and don’t drop the game.

That’s the short answer.

Pretty much this. It’s amazing how dumb-down games have become in such a relatively short amount of time.

Boneheart.3561:

It could also walk on water, make the blind see, and miraculously survived an assassination attempt by Claus von Stauffenberg.

i wouldnt really mention it, except the current stat system only works well if players must take damage, which is kind of not the way the game really plays.

berserkers/condi focused dont get hit risk vs reward is skewed
defensive players cant force themselves to get hit being defensve is selfish
healing isnt meant to be a focus stat doesnt do much.

this stat system just doesnt really work well in pve

Harper.4173:

The GW1 system was designed for a completely different game with a completely different type of “average player” playing it.

Pretty much this. People often complained about GW1 being too complex. GW2 was meant to address those complaints, but I guess many of us didn’t realize how far it would go.

Copestetic.5174:

Harper.4173:

The GW1 system was designed for a completely different game with a completely different type of “average player” playing it.

This system we have now – both stat-wise and skill-wise is designed to be as “dummy proof” as possible so terribly bad people can still perform and don’t drop the game.

That’s the short answer.

Pretty much this. It’s amazing how dumb-down games have become in such a relatively short amount of time.

why dumb-down?

Can I assume that smart games provide 9999 skills, 999 foods and drinks, 999999 other items and allow top gaming sets to be fully utilized and full time own those with basic keyboard and mouse?
Is it dumb down also that everyone have access to endgame gear and are gear and stat wise on pair with everyone else?

you know. I’d like more of such dumb games.
I really do.

Tao.5096:

Copestetic.5174:

Harper.4173:

The GW1 system was designed for a completely different game with a completely different type of “average player” playing it.

This system we have now – both stat-wise and skill-wise is designed to be as “dummy proof” as possible so terribly bad people can still perform and don’t drop the game.

That’s the short answer.

Pretty much this. It’s amazing how dumb-down games have become in such a relatively short amount of time.

why dumb-down?

Can I assume that smart games provide 9999 skills, 999 foods and drinks, 999999 other items and allow top gaming sets to be fully utilized and full time own those with basic keyboard and mouse?
Is it dumb down also that everyone have access to endgame gear and are gear and stat wise on pair with everyone else?

you know. I’d like more of such dumb games.
I really do.

im guessing you arent familiar with gw1 stat system, because it was less big numbers, and it was the same stats for 7 years, it also was easy to get max stats and everyone was on par.
Difference is, your stats mattered, and gave you a lot more build diversity and playstyle differences.

Yet another reason why I still have GW1 installed. Sometimes I just have to play something that works.

phys.7689:

Tao.5096:

Copestetic.5174:

Harper.4173:

The GW1 system was designed for a completely different game with a completely different type of “average player” playing it.

This system we have now – both stat-wise and skill-wise is designed to be as “dummy proof” as possible so terribly bad people can still perform and don’t drop the game.

That’s the short answer.

Pretty much this. It’s amazing how dumb-down games have become in such a relatively short amount of time.

why dumb-down?

Can I assume that smart games provide 9999 skills, 999 foods and drinks, 999999 other items and allow top gaming sets to be fully utilized and full time own those with basic keyboard and mouse?
Is it dumb down also that everyone have access to endgame gear and are gear and stat wise on pair with everyone else?

you know. I’d like more of such dumb games.
I really do.

im guessing you arent familiar with gw1 stat system, because it was less big numbers, and it was the same stats for 7 years, it also was easy to get max stats and everyone was on par.
Difference is, your stats mattered, and gave you a lot more build diversity and playstyle differences.

Paragon.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Tying stats to trait lines was a horrible mistake. All it does is reduce the number of viable builds. Too late now.

Wasn’t that EXACTLY what GW1 did though? Tying stats to the attribute lines?

lordkrall.7241:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Tying stats to trait lines was a horrible mistake. All it does is reduce the number of viable builds. Too late now.

Wasn’t that EXACTLY what GW1 did though? Tying stats to the attribute lines?

i think he means tying stats that determine dps to certain traits. While the traits may be good, getting vit or toughness or healing power may not be helpful to you. Even if say you want to cause random boons or have your pet share your boons or something.

In gw1, the type of stats you see here werent linked to any attribute. Earth magic increased the power of your earth spells, swordsmanship boosted sword skills, etc. It wasnt like, if you want to get special abilities for hammer, you need 300 toughness.

Boneheart.3561:

phys.7689:

Tao.5096:

Copestetic.5174:

Harper.4173:

The GW1 system was designed for a completely different game with a completely different type of “average player” playing it.

This system we have now – both stat-wise and skill-wise is designed to be as “dummy proof” as possible so terribly bad people can still perform and don’t drop the game.

That’s the short answer.

Pretty much this. It’s amazing how dumb-down games have become in such a relatively short amount of time.

why dumb-down?

Can I assume that smart games provide 9999 skills, 999 foods and drinks, 999999 other items and allow top gaming sets to be fully utilized and full time own those with basic keyboard and mouse?
Is it dumb down also that everyone have access to endgame gear and are gear and stat wise on pair with everyone else?

you know. I’d like more of such dumb games.
I really do.

im guessing you arent familiar with gw1 stat system, because it was less big numbers, and it was the same stats for 7 years, it also was easy to get max stats and everyone was on par.
Difference is, your stats mattered, and gave you a lot more build diversity and playstyle differences.

Paragon.

what about paragon? his stats mattered, and he had different builds.

I totally agree with this post (and have since forever). I refrained from making such a topic myself since I felt it had to real use, since it probably will never change.

GW1 had so much unique systems, that were both simple and were engaging, it’s sad to see GW2 adopted so little of it :-/

Tao.5096:

Copestetic.5174:

Harper.4173:

The GW1 system was designed for a completely different game with a completely different type of “average player” playing it.

This system we have now – both stat-wise and skill-wise is designed to be as “dummy proof” as possible so terribly bad people can still perform and don’t drop the game.

That’s the short answer.

Pretty much this. It’s amazing how dumb-down games have become in such a relatively short amount of time.

why dumb-down?

Can I assume that smart games provide 9999 skills, 999 foods and drinks, 999999 other items and allow top gaming sets to be fully utilized and full time own those with basic keyboard and mouse?
Is it dumb down also that everyone have access to endgame gear and are gear and stat wise on pair with everyone else?

you know. I’d like more of such dumb games.
I really do.

It’s “dumbed down” because it doesn’t require the player to think and improve like the first game did.
It doesn’t punish them for being terrible both at thinking their character build/gear through and at executing moves.

Let’s look back – GW1 gave you access to 8 skills – however a proper build required skill synergy and creating a combination of 8 skills that worked well together.

In GW2 your skill slots are fixed – that means you can’t go wrong since you’re made to take a healing skill, an elite, and utilities.
And the worst part? Your skills are tied into your weapon – so any player no matter how terrible he is can now just equip a weapon and be effective regardless of his understanding of the game.

I remember in GW1 – when I first picked it up – I just loaded my skill bar with attack skills – needless to say how that worked out.

You had to pick skills out of a pretty large selection in order to create a skill bar that did something or the other. Usually skills had synergy between them so picking the right ones made a huge difference.
Couple this with the fact that you had to invest attributes and pick up upgrades for your weapons and armor ( which could do various things) and you have a game with a much steeper difficulty curve.

Your weapon, your attributes, your upgrades and skills were all linked together. If you could think things through properly you’d get a build that was good. If not you’d be terrible.

The bottom line is that the game is dumbed down not because people have access to end-game tier items easily – but because it doesn’t force you to get good in any way.

It doesn’t make you have to think about what you’re doing or you might fail. You can open world farm bosses all day every day in the worst gear in the game and have no idea what you’re doing since the zerg is there to cover for you.

Yes, i completely agree, came to same conclusions some time ago. GW2’s stat system works better in PvP and there it allows to achieve some variety and flexibility, but in PvE it’s just all over the place, way too many junk stats and stat combos and the only thing they can do is to mislead inexperienced players and hinder their performance. Used to be even worse back when magic find used to be on gear as well. AN doesn’t stop here, however, recently introduced nomad stat combo, again in PvE where it have zero use.That stat combo theoretically could be useful for someone in WvW, but why it’s obtainable in and through PvE is just escapes me completely. The only answer i can come up with is bad design. They could clean it up in some update, in theory. That’s not unheard of.

Harper.4173:

… require the player to think and improve…

I believe there might be merit to this. It certainly was punishing to attempt play with a “thoughtless” build in Guild Wars, for me. Not so much in Guild Wars 2, I essentially bulldozed my way through iron briars.

But it was quite refreshing to build however the hell I wanted here, than be required to select a build someone else created because someone else had already thought of the best skills and you better ping build or kick. Only time I could use my Paragon/Elementalist template was during a leisurely Vanquish, where seven people could just carry you. Although, being told to start an entirely different character (profession) because your chosen profession is shunned at certain content was when I realized ‘this is Game of the Year’.

Perhaps I should take off my rose-tinted glasses.

The old system was absolutely better. Multi-classing, plus gear stats not being a factor, gave a tremendous amount of freedom in how you might succeed or fail at challenging content. The attributes were nice too. Simple and straight forward and highly changeable. Your primary class decided your primary attribute and armor-type. Beyond that, totally up to you how you want to do it. And if how you set things up wasn’t working out, well, guess you better retool and come up with a better idea ..not just changing your 8 skills, but changing entire attribute and skill sets by swapping your secondary class to something else. You could basically “be” anything you could think of, for better or worse.

When they were making GW2, I expected it to still have “everything I loved about GW1”, just with open world, jumping, swimming, events, and more, along with a direct continuation of the existing lore.

I didn’t expect to LOSE those things that made me so appreciate the franchise. 1st person view, multi-classing, the old skill/attribute/gear system, the rich lore, guild halls, multiple continents after multiple years, very low level/gear cap, etc, They made various design decisions to go in another direction. A more dumbed down generic “like everyone else” direction.

I’ve had to accept it and still appreciate other aspects, but I won’t pretend they didn’t butcher a good and beloved franchise. It’s a pretty decent game in its own right, but they betrayed too many of their old philosophies. I’m not convinced it’s actually a worthy successor to the game Anet built their name and earned our respect on.

wasted.6817:

GW2’s stat system works better in PvP and there it allows to achieve some variety and flexibility.

I hope you are joking…

papryk.6273:

wasted.6817:

GW2’s stat system works better in PvP and there it allows to achieve some variety and flexibility.

I hope you are joking…

No. In PvE we have 2323454656 stat combos while only one is viable. In PvP plenty of combos/amulets are used and completely viable. Same goes to runes btw.

Kartel.2561:

I didn’t expect to LOSE those things that made me so appreciate the franchise. 1st person view, multi-classing, the old skill/attribute/gear system, the rich lore, guild halls, multiple continents after multiple years, very low level/gear cap, etc, They made various design decisions to go in another direction. A more dumbed down generic “like everyone else” direction.

This always baffled me. With all their focus on being new and innovative, the decision to cut out some of the very original ideas from GW in favor of more generic systems seems odd.
I remember some statements in early interviews about not wanting to just make a reskinned Guild Wars game. I get that, but I feel like they sacrificed a hell of a lot, changing things just for the sake of being different from the predecessor.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

In Guild Wars 1, on the other hand, item nomenclature was irrelevant.

Not always. Earth eles weren’t that great and air got hit hard after the IL nerf, just to refer to your own examples. Fire ele was the best ele for damage dealing and E/Mo was your prot spec.

While I agree that the system in GW1 was better, I also enjoy the simplicity found in GW2 – they basically trimmed off all the unnecessary fat (although in the process trimmed off some wanted meat as well) that was in GW1. Also, item nomenclature made a huge difference. I kid you not, I’ve seen people use Windwalker insignias on their VoS dervishes in PvE…

The game was easy and you could take a Windwalker decked VoS dervish or ST + Minion Bomber and go clear any zone. Just like you can take a scepter elementalist clad in Soldier’s gear and do relatively well in Orr, the whole “berserker is the only optimal choice” is somewhat bullkitten outside of dungeons (which therein lies a problem).

More specifically though, the problem arises when you realize that whether you use Soldier’s gear or Berserker’s or X gear – or whether you spec in Fire or Air or Y trait trees (or apply any relevant value to X or Y), you’re not really playing that much differently.

Boneheart.3561:

you better ping build or kick.

Although, being told to start an entirely different character (profession) because your chosen profession is shunned at certain content

Perhaps I should take off my rose-tinted glasses.

I despised those kind of people. I ran vanquishes and dungeons all the time while carrying and still had respectable speeds on par with those who didn’t. As long as people didn’t overpull mobs it was a stupidly easy game.

Harper.4173:

The GW1 system was designed for a completely different game with a completely different type of “average player” playing it.

This system we have now – both stat-wise and skill-wise is designed to be as “dummy proof” as possible so terribly bad people can still perform and don’t drop the game.

That’s the short answer.

That’s an unfortunate statement, and it’s one that really cuts down to the bitter heart of the situation.

I was actually discussing MMO design with one of my friends, and when I brought up the possibility of an MMO structured around tanks that body-block and shield through position, he shot the idea down as being too difficult for the masses. “MMO players are idiots, and an MMO not designed for idiots will fail.”

I’m going to take a different stance on MMO communities however. My answer is this “MMO communities are idiotic because MMOs are designed for the idiotic.” When a developer assumes that their playerbase will be unintelligent, that is precisely what they will get. Have a little faith in your playerbase in game design, and you’ll get a more skilled one.

Harper.4173:

Tao.5096:

Copestetic.5174:

Harper.4173:

The GW1 system was designed for a completely different game with a completely different type of “average player” playing it.

This system we have now – both stat-wise and skill-wise is designed to be as “dummy proof” as possible so terribly bad people can still perform and don’t drop the game.

That’s the short answer.

Pretty much this. It’s amazing how dumb-down games have become in such a relatively short amount of time.

why dumb-down?

Can I assume that smart games provide 9999 skills, 999 foods and drinks, 999999 other items and allow top gaming sets to be fully utilized and full time own those with basic keyboard and mouse?
Is it dumb down also that everyone have access to endgame gear and are gear and stat wise on pair with everyone else?

you know. I’d like more of such dumb games.
I really do.

It’s “dumbed down” because it doesn’t require the player to think and improve like the first game did.
It doesn’t punish them for being terrible both at thinking their character build/gear through and at executing moves.

Let’s look back – GW1 gave you access to 8 skills – however a proper build required skill synergy and creating a combination of 8 skills that worked well together.

In GW2 your skill slots are fixed – that means you can’t go wrong since you’re made to take a healing skill, an elite, and utilities.
And the worst part? Your skills are tied into your weapon – so any player no matter how terrible he is can now just equip a weapon and be effective regardless of his understanding of the game.

I remember in GW1 – when I first picked it up – I just loaded my skill bar with attack skills – needless to say how that worked out.

You had to pick skills out of a pretty large selection in order to create a skill bar that did something or the other. Usually skills had synergy between them so picking the right ones made a huge difference.
Couple this with the fact that you had to invest attributes and pick up upgrades for your weapons and armor ( which could do various things) and you have a game with a much steeper difficulty curve.

Your weapon, your attributes, your upgrades and skills were all linked together. If you could think things through properly you’d get a build that was good. If not you’d be terrible.

The bottom line is that the game is dumbed down not because people have access to end-game tier items easily – but because it doesn’t force you to get good in any way.

It doesn’t make you have to think about what you’re doing or you might fail. You can open world farm bosses all day every day in the worst gear in the game and have no idea what you’re doing since the zerg is there to cover for you.

Couldn’t have said it better myself. Excellent job.

Cuddy.6247:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

In Guild Wars 1, on the other hand, item nomenclature was irrelevant.

Not always. Earth eles weren’t that great and air got hit hard after the IL nerf, just to refer to your own examples. Fire ele was the best ele for damage dealing and E/Mo was your prot spec.

While I agree that the system in GW1 was better, I also enjoy the simplicity found in GW2 – they basically trimmed off all the unnecessary fat (although in the process trimmed off some wanted meat as well) that was in GW1. Also, item nomenclature made a huge difference. I kid you not, I’ve seen people use Windwalker insignias on their VoS dervishes in PvE…

Let’s not bring balance into the argument. Point is, an Air Elementalist is intended to be as good as an Earth, Water, or Fire Elementalist at their role while bringing their own unique skill pool with functionalities not available to the others. That’s what the game was all about, that is why the old system was superior, and that is why, barring borderline-incompetent balancing by Izzy, it was generally more successful at creating build variety.

As for insignias, that is not the GW1 equivalent of item nomenclature. Those are runes – plain and simple. Yes, they were the only real stat customization of the first game, but they served the same function as modern runes. If anything, I’d say that GW2’s runes are one of the only game systems to have improved from the first game’s equivalent, simply because of their variety of interesting passives.

I would argue that very little of the design in GW1 was “unnecessary fat.” It was mostly lean meat, even if it did have a little grizzle. GW2 cut the grizzle, cut away a vast chunk of the meat, and then stapled on the masses of fat that we know as ascended gear and stats attached to gear and trait lines.

The big thing for me isn’t the stat system itself. It’s that none of those stats were tied to armor.

It’s all very nice to be able to change traits outside of combat, but carrying around 2, 3 sets of armor for different builds is just annoying (and I won’t do it).

Vayne.8563:

The big thing for me isn’t the stat system itself. It’s that none of those stats were tied to armor.

It’s all very nice to be able to change traits outside of combat, but carrying around 2, 3 sets of armor for different builds is just annoying (and I won’t do it).

And it got downright evil when ascended armor was added. Especially as a light armor class.

No class is as stat-flexible (and thus reliant on experimentation) as the Elementalist, and no class pays more for their armor pieces than the Elementalist, Mesmer, and Necromancer. Paying over 500g for a single set of best-in-stat gear is absurd.

Agree with the above posts about stats on gear. It is frustrating to have the tease of being able to change builds dynamically only to have so many of the stats tied to gear that is either annoying to swap out, or too expensive to maintain multiple sets.

It was more than just stats. Almost everything about Guild Wars 1 (except the graphics) were better.

If half of the community left back to play Guild Wars 1, I would probably follow. Guild Wars 2 just does not have the depth of its predecessor… I am glad that it has made ANET a ton of money but I am afraid that the Guild Wars franchise is just a shadow of its former self.

They could potentially fix this to some degree by making stats on gear switchable (similar to legendary weps functionality) and adding build/gear manager with templates and all.

In GW2, ANet bit off more than it could chew by trying to make systems that were innovative and different while also trying to make sure that fans of traditional MMO features felt at home. I, also, preferred the GW stat mechanics. Unfortunately, I don’t see ANet redesigning GW2 stats especially because a return to the GW system would kitten off people who spent all that time and/or gold making Ascended crud.

wasted.6817:

They could potentially fix this to some degree by making stats on gear switchable (similar to legendary weps functionality) and adding build/gear manager with templates and all.

Would love to see that implemented. I know tons of people have asked for build template ability on the forums, but I’d agree that gear stats should be modifiable and that if templates are ever enabled, they should include the gear stats.

Harper.4173:

The GW1 system was designed for a completely different game with a completely different type of “average player” playing it.

This system we have now – both stat-wise and skill-wise is designed to be as “dummy proof” as possible so terribly bad people can still perform and don’t drop the game.

That’s the short answer.

Well that hasnt worked either. More and more people drop every day. Because it is soooo dumbed down.

While I agree to most of the points in this thread, particularly the OP, I don’t feel that a change back to the GW1 style would be necessary for the present system to work well.

As Wasted pointed out, the stat system is pretty viable in PvP, though I’d argue that the widest variety of viable builds is available in WvW, rather than PvP in general. What needs to be rethought is the PvE combat. Boss and general mob mechanics which favor pure power/crit builds due to unstrippable mob boons, OHKO attacks and outright condition immunities. The mordrem mobs have been a step in the right direction in many ways but are held back by condition immunity and unstrippable boons.
If some boss monsters had periods of physical damage resistance, in exchange for vulnerability to conditions rather than outright damage immunity, this would immediately start opening up condition build viability. If general mobs were more mixed – some vulnerable to condi, others power – we could expand on this, adding further game dynamics and much needed variety to encounters. As for bosses, don’t get me wrong, I know that some of the boss mechanics are there to add difficulty but I can see definite advantages for player variety, in making boss boons strippable, even if it’s only for one to two seconds.

The removal of OHKO mechanics would also go a long way to making pets viable (looking at ranger pets specifically) on it’s own, while increasing the usefulness of healing and support builds, exactly as you see in WvW.

I suspect that reducing boon-stacking would also be a good idea. Right now, classes and builds that have mightstacking far outshine every other build, due to the irresistable lure of massive DPS boosts.

Tl;dr: Yes GW1 stats were better in some ways, but it’s the PvE mechanics of GW2 that make the present stat system suck. Without that, I feel it could potentially achieve the goal of broader appeal over GW1 stats.

SYPHA.9283:

Harper.4173:

The GW1 system was designed for a completely different game with a completely different type of “average player” playing it.

This system we have now – both stat-wise and skill-wise is designed to be as “dummy proof” as possible so terribly bad people can still perform and don’t drop the game.

That’s the short answer.

Well that hasnt worked either. More and more people drop every day. Because it is soooo dumbed down.

There is no such thing as a game that appeals to everyone. By attempting to do so, you only make a mediocre game for everyone. Better to know your audience and appeal to them, as the first game did.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Unfortunately, I don’t see ANet redesigning GW2 stats especially because a return to the GW system would kitten off people who spent all that time and/or gold making Ascended crud.

Maybe not go back to the old system (besides, i don’t think that’s needed), but just work on current one. I.e., Blizzard changes things in every expansion.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

SYPHA.9283:

Harper.4173:

The GW1 system was designed for a completely different game with a completely different type of “average player” playing it.

This system we have now – both stat-wise and skill-wise is designed to be as “dummy proof” as possible so terribly bad people can still perform and don’t drop the game.

That’s the short answer.

Well that hasnt worked either. More and more people drop every day. Because it is soooo dumbed down.

There is no such thing as a game that appeals to everyone. By attempting to do so, you only make a mediocre game for everyone. Better to know your audience and appeal to them, as the first game did.

Never a truer statement. But, obviously they aren’t appealing to the masses, that’s apparent by the mass exodus and the crazy long queue times. Appealing to a select few “pro” players is going to be the games demise. Well, whats left of the community anyway.

What mass exodus?

Umm, who cares? This isn’t GW1, so whats the point of this post?

SYPHA.9283:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

SYPHA.9283:

Harper.4173:

The GW1 system was designed for a completely different game with a completely different type of “average player” playing it.

This system we have now – both stat-wise and skill-wise is designed to be as “dummy proof” as possible so terribly bad people can still perform and don’t drop the game.

That’s the short answer.

Well that hasnt worked either. More and more people drop every day. Because it is soooo dumbed down.

There is no such thing as a game that appeals to everyone. By attempting to do so, you only make a mediocre game for everyone. Better to know your audience and appeal to them, as the first game did.

Never a truer statement. But, obviously they aren’t appealing to the masses, that’s apparent by the mass exodus and the crazy long queue times. Appealing to a select few “pro” players is going to be the games demise. Well, whats left of the community anyway.

Oh, no one said anything about appealing to pros. A good developer is simply one that knows what its audience is and attempts to make the best game possible for them. And that’s a vision that should be held from development all the way till the game’s life span runs its course.

MachineManXX.9746:

Umm, who cares? This isn’t GW1, so whats the point of this post?

probably just a point of discussion/realization. Its clear they wouldnt really alter the stat system at this juncture.
Probably the best thing that could come of it, is templates/stat unlocks. But it would still not be as elegant/utile as gw1 stat system.
The stats just dont fit the way the game is played that well.

Zerker (power/prec/crit) is the only stat that matters anyway but yes GW1 was far superior in every way , everyone knows this.