There's no reward for higher lvl content.

There's no reward for higher lvl content.

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Posted by: Nick Lentz.6982

Nick Lentz.6982

How do you get maxed ascended and required best infusion and work 75 hours a week while only starting 5 months ago?
You’re lying about something or you credit carded your way. If it is the latter, then you found your problem.

Guardian of Maguuma
Grand Warden of I Crit Under Pressure.
message me for an invite ^_^

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Posted by: mtpelion.4562

mtpelion.4562

The greatest sin of the Gear Treadmill is that everything you have worked for up until now gets invalidated forcing you to regear your character before you can play the game.

If you take a break from the game, you wind up getting so far behind on the treadmill that you may never catch up, which is exactly the type of scenario they are trying to make you afraid of in order to incentivize you into always paying them every month so that you don’t fall behind.

It is an insult to the intelligence of gamers.

Server: Devona’s Rest

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Posted by: DiogoSilva.7089

DiogoSilva.7089

I’m not a big fan of the gear treadmill, but GW2 just plainly isn’t a very rewarding game.

Skins are end-game rewards, yet most of them are highly flawed and ugly. The few ones which aren’t are usually gem store skins, legendary skins (which require a massive grind), or extremely rare skins that you’ll only realistically get from the TP.

Skill Progression didn’t exist for around 2 years until elite specs were introduced.

Mounts and player housing, two of the biggest and most popular systems of cosmetic progression, do not even exist in this game.

Guild building system took several years to be created, and is a massive grind to small guilds to work towards. Meanwhile, all big guilds should have gotten all the ugprades by now, so joining a big guild won’t give you any sense of progression in that regard.

Stat infusions are a massive grind for little gain, and they’re not even friendly to gear with different stats or to players with alts.

The upgrade system (runes and sigils) is underwhelming, as we all know very well. Other smaller systems get old really fast, like luck/ magic find.

Some masteries are wonderfully rewarding, but most are way too niche.

And acquiring gear with different stats is a massive, massive grind. Yay horizontal progression!

GW2 could have been a very rewarding game even without gear treadmill. But it’s just not a very rewarding game.

(edited by DiogoSilva.7089)

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

True, and you know what the best part is? You can go and play literally almost any of the other MMOs on the market right now and get exactly what you desire, a gear treadmill to your liking. In your case WoW.

For everyone else who does not want that, GW2 will remain a valid and enjoyable option.

End result: everyone is happy with a game of their choice.

The other point that highlights how great GW2 is?

GW2 allows you to take a break. It doesn’t have to become the everything-game. Juggle it with another MMO. It’s not like it costs extra to do so.

There’s no need for a gear treadmill. If it bothers people that much, routinely scrap your Ascended gear, trade it in for vendor-bought basics, and go do it all over again when a new Living World episode comes out. ..then watch how old that gets, real quickly.

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

So,you’re saying you want a continuous gear treadmill? Because eventually you’re going to hit max stats without one if you play long enough and you’ll be right where you are right now.

It depends on your definition of a “gear treadmill.” I think that:

1) There should absolutely be some concrete incentive to do fractals and raids.
2) Every new expansion should introduce gear that’s at least a little better than what was previously available.
3) “Legendary” weapons and armor should offer more than a drop-down box for stat combos… and a trail of glitter on the ground.

If successful completion of the content and having fun with people you team with isn’t enough of an incentive to do the content, then you need to evaluate why you even play MMO’s in the first place, especially GW2.

As for the other points, they don’t really make sense. There WAS better gear introduced with HoT … many stat combos didn’t exist that are better for many builds. What you think SHOULD be for Legendary items is irrelevant. Frankly, it seems to me that you have chosen a game that doesn’t suit your needs. GW2 does not follow the trends set by other MMO’s; that’s it’s ultimate appeal.

(edited by Obtena.7952)

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Posted by: PaxTheGreatOne.9472

PaxTheGreatOne.9472

Yes…. Higher level content:

Fractals & 100CM:

  • legendary backpack,
  • unique skins,
  • stat infusions
  • Guild Hall decorations

Raids & CM:

  • legendary armors,
  • ascneded gear,
  • unique skins,
  • aura’s
  • titles

WvW:

  • Armor skins,
  • Ascneded armor/weapons
  • legendary backpack

PvP:

  • Armor skins,
  • PvP rewards from season (titles, legendaries, pre’s),
  • skins unique to PvP,
  • Ascneded armors,
  • legendary backpack,

PvE

  • Mastry levels,
  • unique skins from some worldbosses,
  • titles,
  • skins,
  • aura’s…

Gold, Karma, other currency and AP’s not included…

Endgame… what do you expect from endgame may I ask?

I have 27 ascneded armors on 22 lvl 80’s, 1 legendary armor, 1 legendary backpack, 6 legendary weapons, some aura’s, 28+k AP, a serious list of titles (I use only a few), I suck at PvP, but have seen ppl doing good and receiving pre’s and titles. I have a private guild hall decorated, for myself and close friends, I have all lvl100 CM skins unlocked.

I’m Unclean, but not Eternal, and only did Cairn CM, mostly due to lack of time. I do not have Slippery Slub

I have a decent account…

And now for the most important bit:


I have FUN playing this game, and with this community, being the best reward of all


In the end you play a game because you like it. Which will be your game’s reward.

23 lvl 80’s, 9 times map, 4ele, 4ncr, 3war, 3grd, 3rgr, 2thf, 2msm, 1eng, 1 rev.
Been There, Done That & Will do it again…except maybe world completion.

(edited by PaxTheGreatOne.9472)

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Posted by: TheOrlyFactor.8341

TheOrlyFactor.8341

I have fun, being the best reward of all

How dare you have fun in a video game! >:C

Playing GW2 for the story is like expecting plot in a porno. You’ll be left disappointed.

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Posted by: PaxTheGreatOne.9472

PaxTheGreatOne.9472

I have fun, being the best reward of all

How dare you have fun in a video game! >:C

IF the game would not be fun, then why would I spend time on it?

23 lvl 80’s, 9 times map, 4ele, 4ncr, 3war, 3grd, 3rgr, 2thf, 2msm, 1eng, 1 rev.
Been There, Done That & Will do it again…except maybe world completion.

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Posted by: TheOrlyFactor.8341

TheOrlyFactor.8341

I have fun, being the best reward of all

How dare you have fun in a video game! >:C

IF the game would not be fun, then why would I spend time on it?

I was being silly/facetious. :P

Playing GW2 for the story is like expecting plot in a porno. You’ll be left disappointed.

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

— snip —

it isnt really a trick, its actually a necessity of the game design. What you are missing is people WANT to have a reason to beat it repeatedly. the design’s reward structures have to encourage people to play the game, or at very least, not make it feel less rewarding.

i am not saying that in every game they find that right balance of matching people’s desire to repeat with an appropriate amount of reward, but that goal isnt a trick, its actually an integral part of designing an enjoyable system.

Something can be both a necessary part of game design and a trick at the same time. Designers are using anticipation of reward as a substitute for the flow state generated by brain chemistry when confronted with challenge and/or new experiences. Yes, it’s necessary for the MMO business model. Yes, large parts of the MMO audience want rewards, and want to have a reason to play “their” MMO into the ground. It’s still tricking the brains of players.

In the MMO’s I’ve played prior to GW2, there always came a point where I stepped back and looked at what I was doing. Whether it was a F2p grinder or a gear-treadmill game such as the big gorilla, I always got to a point where I thought, "I’m doing X so that I can get to a new “level” (whether it was an actual level or a new gear tier). But why?" Then it would hit me, “I’m doing it so that when I finish I can go do it again.” And then, “That’s all this game is, a cycle that never ends, with me doing the same things over and over in slightly different places.”

That realization is why GW2 is the best MMO for me. I don’t have to do that. I can choose to go for a reward if I want to, but I do not have to. In those other games, there was no choice. As long as I wanted to do the new stuff that came out, I had to stay on the treadmill.

So, GW2 is in large part a compromise. It tries to present long-term goals for those that want the excuse to play content over and over and over without making that a requirement to be able to do the new stuff. For some of those who want the reward chase, the compromise isn’t good enough. I can see that. For those of us who got disgusted by the trick, and who play games mostly for fun, it works.

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Posted by: PaxTheGreatOne.9472

PaxTheGreatOne.9472

I have fun, being the best reward of all

How dare you have fun in a video game! >:C

IF the game would not be fun, then why would I spend time on it?

I was being silly/facetious. :P

I’m glad you have fun as well

See this game brings fun to most, even on the forum! :P
Rewarding, especially for this high level (forum) content.

23 lvl 80’s, 9 times map, 4ele, 4ncr, 3war, 3grd, 3rgr, 2thf, 2msm, 1eng, 1 rev.
Been There, Done That & Will do it again…except maybe world completion.

(edited by PaxTheGreatOne.9472)

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Posted by: Fallesafe.5932

Fallesafe.5932

Yes…. Higher level content:

Fractals & 100CM:

  • legendary backpack,
  • unique skins,
  • stat infusions
  • Guild Hall decorations

Raids & CM:

  • legendary armors,
  • ascneded gear,
  • unique skins,
  • aura’s
  • titles

WvW:

  • Armor skins,
  • Ascneded armor/weapons
  • legendary backpack

PvP:

  • Armor skins,
  • PvP rewards from season (titles, legendaries, pre’s),
  • skins unique to PvP,
  • Ascneded armors,
  • legendary backpack,

PvE

  • Mastry levels,
  • unique skins from some worldbosses,
  • titles,
  • skins,
  • aura’s…

Gold, Karma, other currency and AP’s not included…

Endgame… what do you expect from endgame may I ask?

Legendaries = ascended
Titles, auras, skins, decorations = nonsense

There's no reward for higher lvl content.

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

MMOs, powercreep and gear treadmills

For whatever set of reasons, the concept of a gear-grind power creep took hold in the MMORPG genre and essentially took it over, to the point that those who play, and those who develop games for the genre, apparently cannot even imagine an MMORPG being successful without it. We’re all familiar with the term “content locusts” – players that consume vertical progression in a game and then either complain that there is “nothing to do” or move on to other games. Developers often attempt to keep up with vertical progression content locusts by churning out more vertical progression every few months.

Obviously, thousands of games have been successful without power creep or gear treadmills. People pour millions of hours and billions of dollars into games that have no power creep gear treadmills. So why the myopic and obsessive focus on that particular mechanic in MMORPGs? It’s obviously not necessary for a game to be successful, and you can make a pretty good case that it drives a lot of potential customers away for many reasons:

1. It destroys any sense of “fair competition” between players.

2. It “forces” players to do things in the game they do not want to do (hence the term “grinding”) in order to stay competitive.

3. It forces players to play the game as if it were their primary job in order to stay competitive.

4. It funnels game structure and design concepts down a very narrow path, basically making the game all about the grind, regardless of what else is offered in the game, which is psychologically off-putting for players that don’t want to grind to stay competitive.

5. It biases development time towards trying to keep content locust type players satisfied, which is off-putting for those who are not interested in grinding.

6. It ruins many other potentially profitable and fun systems thout could be in such a game, like WvW or PvP that is competitive from a player skill point of view.

It’s like the genre has put itself in a power creep/gear treadmill straightjacket for no good reason and cannot conceive of anyone that wants to play an MMORPG without the strraightjacket on.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

There's no reward for higher lvl content.

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

MMOs, powercreep and gear treadmills

For whatever set of reasons, the concept of a gear-grind power creep took hold in the MMORPG genre and essentially took it over, to the point that those who play, and those who develop games for the genre, apparently cannot even imagine an MMORPG being successful without it. We’re all familiar with the term “content locusts” – players that consume vertical progression in a game and then either complain that there is “nothing to do” or move on to other games. Developers often attempt to keep up with vertical progression content locusts by churning out more vertical progression every few months.

Obviously, thousands of games have been successful without power creep or gear treadmills. People pour millions of hours and billions of dollars into games that have no power creep gear treadmills. So why the myopic and obsessive focus on that particular mechanic in MMORPGs? It’s obviously not necessary for a game to be successful, and you can make a pretty good case that it drives a lot of potential customers away for many reasons:

1. It destroys any sense of “fair competition” between players.

2. It “forces” players to do things in the game they do not want to do (hence the term “grinding”) in order to stay competitive.

3. It forces players to play the game as if it were their primary job in order to stay competitive.

4. It funnels game structure and design concepts down a very narrow path, basically making the game all about the grind, regardless of what else is offered in the game, which is psychologically off-putting for players that don’t want to grind to stay competitive.

5. It biases development time towards trying to keep content locust type players satisfied, which is off-putting for those who are not interested in grinding.

6. It ruins many other potentially profitable and fun systems thout could be in such a game, like WvW or PvP that is competitive from a player skill point of view.

It’s like the genre has put itself in a power creep/gear treadmill straightjacket for no good reason and cannot conceive of anyone that wants to play an MMORPG without the strraightjacket on.

this editorial is fairly biased, it also ignores the main reason power creep exist in rpgs, which is that it is one of the prime focuses of the genre. An rpg allows your charachter to grow as you progress through the game. Whether it be a dungeon and dragons charachter sheet, a final fantasy 3 adventure, a never winter nights, etc.

so, now you take that paradigm, of customizing your charachter, getting more advanced by going on adventures, finding new power and abilities after conquering that enemy, and you put it a game that you want to theoretically never end.

the shifting goalpost then isnt some crazy thing, its the simplest answer to the question.

now, i will say, maybe its time for some new answers, or remixed designs, but lets not act like progression or the desire for it is some unnatural concept within the rpg game genre.

Accept that its natural for people to want growth and progress in an rpg, now think of ways to do it without the same pitfalls old designs fell into.

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

MMOs, powercreep and gear treadmills

For whatever set of reasons, the concept of a gear-grind power creep took hold in the MMORPG genre and essentially took it over, to the point that those who play, and those who develop games for the genre, apparently cannot even imagine an MMORPG being successful without it. We’re all familiar with the term “content locusts” – players that consume vertical progression in a game and then either complain that there is “nothing to do” or move on to other games. Developers often attempt to keep up with vertical progression content locusts by churning out more vertical progression every few months.

Obviously, thousands of games have been successful without power creep or gear treadmills. People pour millions of hours and billions of dollars into games that have no power creep gear treadmills. So why the myopic and obsessive focus on that particular mechanic in MMORPGs? It’s obviously not necessary for a game to be successful, and you can make a pretty good case that it drives a lot of potential customers away for many reasons:

1. It destroys any sense of “fair competition” between players.

2. It “forces” players to do things in the game they do not want to do (hence the term “grinding”) in order to stay competitive.

3. It forces players to play the game as if it were their primary job in order to stay competitive.

4. It funnels game structure and design concepts down a very narrow path, basically making the game all about the grind, regardless of what else is offered in the game, which is psychologically off-putting for players that don’t want to grind to stay competitive.

5. It biases development time towards trying to keep content locust type players satisfied, which is off-putting for those who are not interested in grinding.

6. It ruins many other potentially profitable and fun systems thout could be in such a game, like WvW or PvP that is competitive from a player skill point of view.

It’s like the genre has put itself in a power creep/gear treadmill straightjacket for no good reason and cannot conceive of anyone that wants to play an MMORPG without the strraightjacket on.

this editorial is fairly biased, it also ignores the main reason power creep exist in rpgs, which is that it is one of the prime focuses of the genre. An rpg allows your charachter to grow as you progress through the game. Whether it be a dungeon and dragons charachter sheet, a final fantasy 3 adventure, a never winter nights, etc.

so, now you take that paradigm, of customizing your charachter, getting more advanced by going on adventures, finding new power and abilities after conquering that enemy, and you put it a game that you want to theoretically never end.

the shifting goalpost then isnt some crazy thing, its the simplest answer to the question.

now, i will say, maybe its time for some new answers, or remixed designs, but lets not act like progression or the desire for it is some unnatural concept within the rpg game genre.

Accept that its natural for people to want growth and progress in an rpg, now think of ways to do it without the same pitfalls old designs fell into.

It’s natural for people to want growth and progress however it does not need to be through a traditional gear treadmill, such as the OP is asking for.

This game is attempting to give growth and progress through the Mastery system. Get enough mastery points and you can glide, auto loot, use oakhearts to leap tall buildings with a single bound. All of which is growth and progression and none of which is a gear treadmill.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: Dindin.2378

Dindin.2378

I did some more thinking and I think that being equals is not fun. Guild Wars 2 tries to give everybody the same opportunities. This is boring. I remember playing a MMORPG called Cabal Online. I used to farm a spot for hours and hours. Why? Because I knew that spot could drop one of the most powerful weapons in game, that only a handful of people have. Guild Wars 2 lacks the possibility to be more powerful than everybody else. You can be more ’ skilled’ but IMO there is not that much skill involved in playing Guild Wars 2, there is not enough build diversity to facilitate this type of gameplay. This is just some speculation, though. I am just trying to think about WHY this type of gameplay is boring for me and apparently for OP and WHY we want something more.

tl:dr: being equals is not fun, the fun is in being different, there has to be a king and someone who dreams to someday become that king. I think.

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

MMOs, powercreep and gear treadmills

For whatever set of reasons, the concept of a gear-grind power creep took hold in the MMORPG genre and essentially took it over, to the point that those who play, and those who develop games for the genre, apparently cannot even imagine an MMORPG being successful without it. We’re all familiar with the term “content locusts” – players that consume vertical progression in a game and then either complain that there is “nothing to do” or move on to other games. Developers often attempt to keep up with vertical progression content locusts by churning out more vertical progression every few months.

Obviously, thousands of games have been successful without power creep or gear treadmills. People pour millions of hours and billions of dollars into games that have no power creep gear treadmills. So why the myopic and obsessive focus on that particular mechanic in MMORPGs? It’s obviously not necessary for a game to be successful, and you can make a pretty good case that it drives a lot of potential customers away for many reasons:

1. It destroys any sense of “fair competition” between players.

2. It “forces” players to do things in the game they do not want to do (hence the term “grinding”) in order to stay competitive.

3. It forces players to play the game as if it were their primary job in order to stay competitive.

4. It funnels game structure and design concepts down a very narrow path, basically making the game all about the grind, regardless of what else is offered in the game, which is psychologically off-putting for players that don’t want to grind to stay competitive.

5. It biases development time towards trying to keep content locust type players satisfied, which is off-putting for those who are not interested in grinding.

6. It ruins many other potentially profitable and fun systems thout could be in such a game, like WvW or PvP that is competitive from a player skill point of view.

It’s like the genre has put itself in a power creep/gear treadmill straightjacket for no good reason and cannot conceive of anyone that wants to play an MMORPG without the strraightjacket on.

this editorial is fairly biased, it also ignores the main reason power creep exist in rpgs, which is that it is one of the prime focuses of the genre. An rpg allows your charachter to grow as you progress through the game. Whether it be a dungeon and dragons charachter sheet, a final fantasy 3 adventure, a never winter nights, etc.

so, now you take that paradigm, of customizing your charachter, getting more advanced by going on adventures, finding new power and abilities after conquering that enemy, and you put it a game that you want to theoretically never end.

the shifting goalpost then isnt some crazy thing, its the simplest answer to the question.

now, i will say, maybe its time for some new answers, or remixed designs, but lets not act like progression or the desire for it is some unnatural concept within the rpg game genre.

Accept that its natural for people to want growth and progress in an rpg, now think of ways to do it without the same pitfalls old designs fell into.

It’s natural for people to want growth and progress however it does not need to be through a traditional gear treadmill, such as the OP is asking for.

This game is attempting to give growth and progress through the Mastery system. Get enough mastery points and you can glide, auto loot, use oakhearts to leap tall buildings with a single bound. All of which is growth and progression and none of which is a gear treadmill.

yeah i think the mastery system is decent, but the mastery system is focused on expansions, and generally leads you through open world content, it doesnt translate that well as an incentive for instances. Also the mastery system we saw in HoT had a number of problematic implementations, that turned off many players.

There's no reward for higher lvl content.

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

MMOs, powercreep and gear treadmills

For whatever set of reasons, the concept of a gear-grind power creep took hold in the MMORPG genre and essentially took it over, to the point that those who play, and those who develop games for the genre, apparently cannot even imagine an MMORPG being successful without it. We’re all familiar with the term “content locusts” – players that consume vertical progression in a game and then either complain that there is “nothing to do” or move on to other games. Developers often attempt to keep up with vertical progression content locusts by churning out more vertical progression every few months.

Obviously, thousands of games have been successful without power creep or gear treadmills. People pour millions of hours and billions of dollars into games that have no power creep gear treadmills. So why the myopic and obsessive focus on that particular mechanic in MMORPGs? It’s obviously not necessary for a game to be successful, and you can make a pretty good case that it drives a lot of potential customers away for many reasons:

1. It destroys any sense of “fair competition” between players.

2. It “forces” players to do things in the game they do not want to do (hence the term “grinding”) in order to stay competitive.

3. It forces players to play the game as if it were their primary job in order to stay competitive.

4. It funnels game structure and design concepts down a very narrow path, basically making the game all about the grind, regardless of what else is offered in the game, which is psychologically off-putting for players that don’t want to grind to stay competitive.

5. It biases development time towards trying to keep content locust type players satisfied, which is off-putting for those who are not interested in grinding.

6. It ruins many other potentially profitable and fun systems thout could be in such a game, like WvW or PvP that is competitive from a player skill point of view.

It’s like the genre has put itself in a power creep/gear treadmill straightjacket for no good reason and cannot conceive of anyone that wants to play an MMORPG without the strraightjacket on.

this editorial is fairly biased, it also ignores the main reason power creep exist in rpgs, which is that it is one of the prime focuses of the genre. An rpg allows your charachter to grow as you progress through the game. Whether it be a dungeon and dragons charachter sheet, a final fantasy 3 adventure, a never winter nights, etc.

so, now you take that paradigm, of customizing your charachter, getting more advanced by going on adventures, finding new power and abilities after conquering that enemy, and you put it a game that you want to theoretically never end.

the shifting goalpost then isnt some crazy thing, its the simplest answer to the question.

now, i will say, maybe its time for some new answers, or remixed designs, but lets not act like progression or the desire for it is some unnatural concept within the rpg game genre.

Accept that its natural for people to want growth and progress in an rpg, now think of ways to do it without the same pitfalls old designs fell into.

It’s natural for people to want growth and progress however it does not need to be through a traditional gear treadmill, such as the OP is asking for.

This game is attempting to give growth and progress through the Mastery system. Get enough mastery points and you can glide, auto loot, use oakhearts to leap tall buildings with a single bound. All of which is growth and progression and none of which is a gear treadmill.

yeah i think the mastery system is decent, but the mastery system is focused on expansions, and generally leads you through open world content, it doesnt translate that well as an incentive for instances. Also the mastery system we saw in HoT had a number of problematic implementations, that turned off many players.

I think the Mastery system is ANet’s answer to the power creep/gear treadmill question. Maybe they made some mistakes, and who has not ever made mistakes, but those mistakes don’t mean that they aren’t working out a viable system to give players new ways to interact with the environment, ways to move around, and new skills that allow your characters to progress and become more than what they were. And all this without introducing power creep and the need to constantly regear to keep up.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

There's no reward for higher lvl content.

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Posted by: Khisanth.2948

Khisanth.2948

I did some more thinking and I think that being equals is not fun. Guild Wars 2 tries to give everybody the same opportunities. This is boring. I remember playing a MMORPG called Cabal Online. I used to farm a spot for hours and hours. Why? Because I knew that spot could drop one of the most powerful weapons in game, that only a handful of people have. Guild Wars 2 lacks the possibility to be more powerful than everybody else. You can be more ’ skilled’ but IMO there is not that much skill involved in playing Guild Wars 2, there is not enough build diversity to facilitate this type of gameplay. This is just some speculation, though. I am just trying to think about WHY this type of gameplay is boring for me and apparently for OP and WHY we want something more.

tl:dr: being equals is not fun, the fun is in being different, there has to be a king and someone who dreams to someday become that king. I think.

Have you ever thought about being more … skillful?

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Posted by: Silvatar.5379

Silvatar.5379

There are plenty of “rewards” for higher level content, you are just selectively choosing not to acknowledge them for whatever reason. Perhaps you do not place “value” in the rewards that are available but that is down to you.

What you are actually asking for, as others have already pointed out, is for Anet to implement power-creep into the game with a gear-tread mill which would just ruin the game. You only need to look at virtually every other MMO to find this (go play an Asian MMO if you really need power creep to feel rewarded). Power-creep is just a sneaky way to make gamers play the same content endlessly, or, alternatively, force them to spend a ridiculous amount of real life money for in-game currency to stay competitive with those living in their parents’ basement playing 14+ hours a day.

One of the great things about GW2 is that the gear tread mill is so small. This allows gamers to focus more on “doing what they want” without begin forced to grind something endlessly just to stay competitive with the rest of the player-base. GW2 is not perfect, but it is definitely one of the best MMO’s around.

(edited by Silvatar.5379)

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

tl:dr: being equals is not fun, the fun is in being different, there has to be a king and someone who dreams to someday become that king. I think.

This shows you don’t get what GW2 is successful … There does NOT have to be a king and someone who dreams it’s them someday. If GW2 can trick/convince/fool people into the fact that no king exists, then the only thing left is to enjoy a back-to-basics RPG style game … by simply playing it and being successful and having fun with firends … unfortunately, there are few people around that know what that means anymore that it’s actually a struggle to sell that message to people.

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Posted by: Djinn.9245

Djinn.9245

Yes…. Higher level content:

Fractals & 100CM:

  • legendary backpack,
  • unique skins,
  • stat infusions
  • Guild Hall decorations

Raids & CM:

  • legendary armors,
  • ascneded gear,
  • unique skins,
  • aura’s
  • titles

WvW:

  • Armor skins,
  • Ascneded armor/weapons
  • legendary backpack

PvP:

  • Armor skins,
  • PvP rewards from season (titles, legendaries, pre’s),
  • skins unique to PvP,
  • Ascneded armors,
  • legendary backpack,

PvE

  • Mastry levels,
  • unique skins from some worldbosses,
  • titles,
  • skins,
  • aura’s…

Gold, Karma, other currency and AP’s not included…

Endgame… what do you expect from endgame may I ask?

Legendaries = ascended
Titles, auras, skins, decorations = nonsense

A huge part of the fun people have in GW2 is exactly what you call “nonsense”. So while it might not matter to you, it does to many other players.

it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol

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Posted by: Djinn.9245

Djinn.9245

I did some more thinking and I think that being equals is not fun. Guild Wars 2 tries to give everybody the same opportunities. This is boring. I remember playing a MMORPG called Cabal Online. I used to farm a spot for hours and hours. Why? Because I knew that spot could drop one of the most powerful weapons in game, that only a handful of people have. Guild Wars 2 lacks the possibility to be more powerful than everybody else. You can be more ’ skilled’ but IMO there is not that much skill involved in playing Guild Wars 2, there is not enough build diversity to facilitate this type of gameplay. This is just some speculation, though. I am just trying to think about WHY this type of gameplay is boring for me and apparently for OP and WHY we want something more.

tl:dr: being equals is not fun, the fun is in being different, there has to be a king and someone who dreams to someday become that king. I think.

There are already many ways of being “different” in GW2. Including getting one of the very rare items, they just don’t make you more powerful than everyone else.

it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

And that is exactly why I left this game.

Yet you’re posting on the forums. o_O

He’s not the only one. I find the forum PvP better than what’s in-game at this point.

I came here for the PvP/WvW, stayed for the PvP/WvW, and quit because the PvP/WvW got spoiled by catering to PvE in its design. A ton of sPvP/WvW people have done the same and feel the same.

There is a sizable chunk of the playerbase (maybe no longer due to so many quitting) that quit for the exact reasons the OP has suggested. If I didn’t ever have to set foot in PvE, I never would have. I’m pretty sure my main character with 6k hours on it still has 40% map completion, with most of my characters having < 5%, and some only 1%.

Forcing people into a certain kind of content is the exact opposite of what GW2 was founded on, and quite frankly, what made it so successful at launch. Since catering mote towards one audience a la HoT, sales have rapidly fallen and that’s just that.

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Posted by: Ryou.2398

Ryou.2398

Op I am telling you, I highly doubt you will find any gear treadmills fun in the current mmorpg market with a 75 80 hour work week, I played eso before gw2 and you have to invest quite a bit of time into the game because of the rng, even if you craft your own gear it takes a long time to get all your research done and use only crafted sets and trust me you will want to go beyond those.

Your telling me you unlocked all your masteries? The thing about guild wars 2 is your meant to play it moderately, you can play other games on the side, but again I do not recommend a gear treadmill the rng in most of them are pretty bad.

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Posted by: Ryou.2398

Ryou.2398

MMOs, powercreep and gear treadmills

For whatever set of reasons, the concept of a gear-grind power creep took hold in the MMORPG genre and essentially took it over, to the point that those who play, and those who develop games for the genre, apparently cannot even imagine an MMORPG being successful without it. We’re all familiar with the term “content locusts” – players that consume vertical progression in a game and then either complain that there is “nothing to do” or move on to other games. Developers often attempt to keep up with vertical progression content locusts by churning out more vertical progression every few months.

Obviously, thousands of games have been successful without power creep or gear treadmills. People pour millions of hours and billions of dollars into games that have no power creep gear treadmills. So why the myopic and obsessive focus on that particular mechanic in MMORPGs? It’s obviously not necessary for a game to be successful, and you can make a pretty good case that it drives a lot of potential customers away for many reasons:

1. It destroys any sense of “fair competition” between players.

2. It “forces” players to do things in the game they do not want to do (hence the term “grinding”) in order to stay competitive.

3. It forces players to play the game as if it were their primary job in order to stay competitive.

4. It funnels game structure and design concepts down a very narrow path, basically making the game all about the grind, regardless of what else is offered in the game, which is psychologically off-putting for players that don’t want to grind to stay competitive.

5. It biases development time towards trying to keep content locust type players satisfied, which is off-putting for those who are not interested in grinding.

6. It ruins many other potentially profitable and fun systems thout could be in such a game, like WvW or PvP that is competitive from a player skill point of view.

It’s like the genre has put itself in a power creep/gear treadmill straightjacket for no good reason and cannot conceive of anyone that wants to play an MMORPG without the strraightjacket on.

this editorial is fairly biased, it also ignores the main reason power creep exist in rpgs, which is that it is one of the prime focuses of the genre. An rpg allows your charachter to grow as you progress through the game. Whether it be a dungeon and dragons charachter sheet, a final fantasy 3 adventure, a never winter nights, etc.

so, now you take that paradigm, of customizing your charachter, getting more advanced by going on adventures, finding new power and abilities after conquering that enemy, and you put it a game that you want to theoretically never end.

the shifting goalpost then isnt some crazy thing, its the simplest answer to the question.

now, i will say, maybe its time for some new answers, or remixed designs, but lets not act like progression or the desire for it is some unnatural concept within the rpg game genre.

Accept that its natural for people to want growth and progress in an rpg, now think of ways to do it without the same pitfalls old designs fell into.

It’s natural for people to want growth and progress however it does not need to be through a traditional gear treadmill, such as the OP is asking for.

This game is attempting to give growth and progress through the Mastery system. Get enough mastery points and you can glide, auto loot, use oakhearts to leap tall buildings with a single bound. All of which is growth and progression and none of which is a gear treadmill.

yeah i think the mastery system is decent, but the mastery system is focused on expansions, and generally leads you through open world content, it doesnt translate that well as an incentive for instances. Also the mastery system we saw in HoT had a number of problematic implementations, that turned off many players.

Uhhhh no the masteries unlock allot of core things beyond special abilities to unlock hot content, not to mention a faster way to get legenderies.

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Posted by: Ryou.2398

Ryou.2398

yeah i think the mastery system is decent, but the mastery system is focused on expansions, and generally leads you through open world content, it doesnt translate that well as an incentive for instances. Also the mastery system we saw in HoT had a number of problematic implementations, that turned off many players.[/quote]

I think the Mastery system is ANet’s answer to the power creep/gear treadmill question. Maybe they made some mistakes, and who has not ever made mistakes, but those mistakes don’t mean that they aren’t working out a viable system to give players new ways to interact with the environment, ways to move around, and new skills that allow your characters to progress and become more than what they were. And all this without introducing power creep and the need to constantly regear to keep up. [/quote]

I could not agree more, while I do miss alternate advancement systems like in everquest 2 where you would get new combat abilities I can see why it can easily ruin a game, the masteries are awesome maybe they could find a way to add new combat abilities into those instead.

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Posted by: kdaddy.5431

kdaddy.5431

Op I am telling you, I highly doubt you will find any gear treadmills fun in the current mmorpg market with a 75 80 hour work week, I played eso before gw2 and you have to invest quite a bit of time into the game because of the rng, even if you craft your own gear it takes a long time to get all your research done and use only crafted sets and trust me you will want to go beyond those.

Your telling me you unlocked all your masteries? The thing about guild wars 2 is your meant to play it moderately, you can play other games on the side, but again I do not recommend a gear treadmill the rng in most of them are pretty bad.

I agree i hate gear tread mills and would not play GW2 at all if they did that.

But im wondering why GW2 doesnt make unique rewards for X thing.

For instance a unique armor set for 10k PvP games played then 20k and 30k.

Same thing for WvW players.

Then for PvE players unique items for X amount of characters with 100% completion of core tyria.

People have talked a long time about why there isnt mini drops/rewards unique to a boss/event/ or achievement. They did it for the dungeon but then made it a item for guild mission in HOT.

I really wished they cared about the long term life of the game but they killed PvP aspect of this when they made levels super easy to obtain.

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Posted by: Ryou.2398

Ryou.2398

Op I am telling you, I highly doubt you will find any gear treadmills fun in the current mmorpg market with a 75 80 hour work week, I played eso before gw2 and you have to invest quite a bit of time into the game because of the rng, even if you craft your own gear it takes a long time to get all your research done and use only crafted sets and trust me you will want to go beyond those.

Your telling me you unlocked all your masteries? The thing about guild wars 2 is your meant to play it moderately, you can play other games on the side, but again I do not recommend a gear treadmill the rng in most of them are pretty bad.

I agree i hate gear tread mills and would not play GW2 at all if they did that.

But im wondering why GW2 doesnt make unique rewards for X thing.

For instance a unique armor set for 10k PvP games played then 20k and 30k.

Same thing for WvW players.

Then for PvE players unique items for X amount of characters with 100% completion of core tyria.

People have talked a long time about why there isnt mini drops/rewards unique to a boss/event/ or achievement. They did it for the dungeon but then made it a item for guild mission in HOT.

I really wished they cared about the long term life of the game but they killed PvP aspect of this when they made levels super easy to obtain.

I agree that would be cool and add allot of fun for doing them in my opinion.

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Posted by: PaxTheGreatOne.9472

PaxTheGreatOne.9472

Yes…. Higher level content:

Fractals & 100CM:

  • legendary backpack,
  • unique skins,
  • stat infusions
  • Guild Hall decorations

Raids & CM:

  • legendary armors,
  • ascneded gear,
  • unique skins,
  • aura’s
  • titles

WvW:

  • Armor skins,
  • Ascneded armor/weapons
  • legendary backpack

PvP:

  • Armor skins,
  • PvP rewards from season (titles, legendaries, pre’s),
  • skins unique to PvP,
  • Ascneded armors,
  • legendary backpack,

PvE

  • Mastry levels,
  • unique skins from some worldbosses,
  • titles,
  • skins,
  • aura’s…

Gold, Karma, other currency and AP’s not included…

Endgame… what do you expect from endgame may I ask?

Legendaries = ascended
Titles, auras, skins, decorations = nonsense

I’m sorry you cannot find anything in this game rewarding to you…

But the real question would be what do you want?

Provided you know there will not be
- Gear progression (no introduction of new levels of armor)
- Level progression (no new 80+ levels)

Please, suggest something instead of saying it’s all rubbish. You are not suggesting anything , just telling it’s not enough for you.


I have 21 lvl 80’s all in ascneded gear. 1 character in legendaries, I have multiple legendary weapons, a legendary backitem, I unlocked skins for the 22 lvl 80’s , levelled up to lvl 100 fractals, did all dungeons, did raids, did WvW (~rank 900) did PvP (just Wolf, it’s not my main enjoyment).

I am playing the game to relax and play a game. I do not need to work (grind or whatever name you give continously trying to max the stats) ingame, because it would defeat the purpose of the game being a game.

I actually find running dungeons , fractals and raids with less Meta builds on less perfected gear more fun cause it gives me a challenge.
If you are wondering what I mean put your ascended infused gear in the bank buy a rare lvl 80 set and run Arah on a (non-) meta build… this will culminate in the “naked runs”. Whcih was briefly a thing before HoT launched. Maybe “naked raids”?

You might not get better rewards , but maybe the improved challenge makes the the effort worthwhile?

I took 4.5 years to gear my lvl 80’s and get exotics, and later ascneded gear, to find a look, with skins, and character looks and find the builds I like (not neccesarily Meta).

I noticed I geared half my characters with ascneded armors since I started doing raids. Maybe the time we need to do the gearing dropped considerably. But so what?

You either play a game cause you like playing and accept all rewards as being a part of the fun, or you do not. If a game is not fun or no longer fun, leave and return in a while and check if it improved.

There is no fear for ingame progression so your character will be maxed out when your return.


And as final word…

The “enjoyment of playing the game” any game should be your main reward in any game.

23 lvl 80’s, 9 times map, 4ele, 4ncr, 3war, 3grd, 3rgr, 2thf, 2msm, 1eng, 1 rev.
Been There, Done That & Will do it again…except maybe world completion.

(edited by PaxTheGreatOne.9472)

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Posted by: Faaris.8013

Faaris.8013

I started this game about five months ago, and decided that I wanted to play some of the higher level content. So I got all of my ascended armor and weapons and trinkets (even the underwater stuff), and filled them with the best infusions and upgrade components. It would be impossible for me to find any item for any slot that would constitute any sort of improvement over what I have.

…because I work 75 hours/week, and don’t have tons of time.

No, you haven’t maxed your character or account. Maybe you are in a state of what is called “unconscious incompetence”, you are lying or you bought everything with real money. Even if you did nothing else in your life besides working, sleeping (let’s say 5 hours of 24, some people do that) and playing GW2, you would have only about 1000 hours of playtime. Maxing might be enough for someone who already knows the game, but not for someone who started 5 month ago. I think I have a good feeling for this because I started playing this game end of February, and had a few weeks off, and I work 40 hours per week.

So maybe you simply don’t know what exists in the game, that would be option 1, unconscious incompetence. You think, for example, that you have reached max stats but don’t know that stat infusions exist. Option 2 would be lying, but I don’t see why you would do that. Maybe you are not lying about your progress in the game, but about the amount of hours you work per week, because in the culture you live in it’s a postive thing to work many hours. Or maybe you can play the game at work, or the game is your work (dulfy?). But you also say you have little time to play, so I guess that’s not the case.

Now, if you work that much, you might be able to afford to pay for the progress with money. If you have done that, then this could be the reason why you are bored and don’t feel challenged. Don’t get me wrong, paying for the game is a good thing. But it’s also true that if you overdo it, you spoil your sense of achievement. If I bought gems for 5k Euros and maxed everything within one or two weeks, I would probably feel empty. People do that btw.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/387314/so_i_spent_5000_on_gw2_gems_last_week/

That is not a problem of the game though. There can be a good discussion about what the game offers for endgame players, but your experience with it differs from probably 99% of the player base, it’s difficult to see it with your eyes.

Herleve – Ruins of Surmia

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Posted by: PaxTheGreatOne.9472

PaxTheGreatOne.9472

I agree i hate gear tread mills and would not play GW2 at all if they did that.

But im wondering why GW2 doesnt make unique rewards for X thing.
For instance a unique armor set for 10k PvP games played then 20k and 30k.
Same thing for WvW players.

Then for PvE players unique items for X amount of characters with 100% completion of core tyria.
People have talked a long time about why there isnt mini drops/rewards unique to a boss/event/ or achievement. They did it for the dungeon but then made it a item for guild mission in HOT.

I really wished they cared about the long term life of the game but they killed PvP aspect of this when they made levels super easy to obtain.

We have rewards for
Dungeons: Dungeon skins, “dungeon master” and “dungeoneer”
Fractals: fractal skins, Ad Infinitum, “Unclean”
Raids: Legendary armor, a lot of tritles and unique skins
PvP: PvP only armors, The Ascnension , a myriad of titles
WvW: WvW only armors, Warbringer , again a myriad of titles
PvE: unique skins from meta maps, world bosses….

The game as a whole: Legendary Weapons

23 lvl 80’s, 9 times map, 4ele, 4ncr, 3war, 3grd, 3rgr, 2thf, 2msm, 1eng, 1 rev.
Been There, Done That & Will do it again…except maybe world completion.

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

An interesting question arises:

Should higher-level/-difficulty content by default give better rewards? As in, should the game artificially add meaning to tackling challenging content? Or should the content inherently be rewarding enough to overcome?

Where should the motivation come from, basically?

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: DiogoSilva.7089

DiogoSilva.7089

If successful completion of the content and having fun with people you team with isn’t enough of an incentive to do the content, then you need to evaluate why you even play MMO’s in the first place, especially GW2.

GW2, yes. MMOs in general, no way.

The entire RPG genre’s gameplay is built around a reward-driven structure. RPGs are all about progression. Stats, items, collectibles, skills, levels, etc. This genre exists EXACTLY to attract the kind of players that enjoy a reward-driven structure.

It makes absolutely no sense for people to come and demand other to evaluate the RPG genre for not having the strong points of a RPG.

That’s like criticizing readers of horror novels that dislike a particular book because it had underwhelming horror elements in it. You can’t simply say “if you can’t enjoy a book simply because it’s fun, then you need to evaluate why you buy horror books”, which their reply will simply be “dude, I bought a horror book because I wanted a horror experience, and the book failed at that”. As simple as that.

The concept may seem alie too, but yes, rewards also contribute to how fun gameplay can be, and yes, there are players who enjoy reward-driven gameplay more, and yes, there are gaming genres that exist specifically for those kind of people: the RPG genre, which GW2 happens to be as well.

But even assuming the concept of a rewardless RPG that would be wonderfully fun, GW2 wouldn’t be it. We’re talking about a game with little to no difficulty in the open world. We’re talking about a game where most skills are useless, clumsy or balanced for pvp, which makes them feel underwhelming and unsatisfying to use in PvE. We’re talking about a game that still has repetitive grinds just as much as any other MMO, just with cosmetics instead of more powerful items. We’re talking about a game that forces you to go into jumping puzzles to complete map achievements, and then had a kitten bad game engine that puts invisible barriers and invisible ground everywhere you jump into.

I can go on, but GW2 isn’t exactly the champion of “fun” games. It has a lot of flaws in combat and exploration, and, for that reason, rewards are a wonderful tool the developers have (and need) to keep players interesting in the game.

GW2 had wonderful front-loaded sales, and then Anet went completely silent about their game’s popularity state after that, outside of developers admitting the game was bad at keeping players interesting and NCSoft expressing disappointment about HoT’s sales. Meanwhile, a game like FFXIV had a disastrous launch, it was rebuilt, and now it has surpassed GW2.

If GW2 was this “oh so wonderfully fun game, who needs rewards when this game is fun, fun, fun?”, it would likely have been at a better state. But it isn’t.

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

We’re talking about a game with little to no difficulty in the open world. We’re talking about a game where most skills are useless, clumsy or balanced for pvp, which makes them feel underwhelming and unsatisfying to use in PvE. We’re talking about a game that still has repetitive grinds just as much as any other MMO, just with cosmetics instead of more powerful items. We’re talking about a game that forces you to go into jumping puzzles to complete map achievements, and then had a kitten bad game engine that puts invisible barriers and invisible ground everywhere you jump into.

I can go on, but GW2 isn’t exactly the champion of “fun” games.

Thank you. Independent of the thread, this summed up the issues of GW2 quite succinctly.

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: Fowidner.6930

Fowidner.6930

Start doing the collections, craft legendaries, get your legendary armor, all the legendary backpieces, hit rank 80 in spvp, get your 250.000 kills in wvw, get all dyes/skins/minis, complete every story achieve, complete treasure hunter on your own, do giant slayer and i speak with you again in about 3-4 years. Enjoy! (If you dont like any of it, ask yourself if this is the right game for you)

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Posted by: Feanor.2358

Feanor.2358

An interesting question arises:

Should higher-level/-difficulty content by default give better rewards? As in, should the game artificially add meaning to tackling challenging content? Or should the content inherently be rewarding enough to overcome?

Where should the motivation come from, basically?

You can’t rely on the content being a motivation by itself. This motivation exists, but it is exhausted MUCH faster. To make content creation cost effective, you must provide some additional motivation. In other words, grind. It’s always there, in any MMO. The only question is what should be the end result of that grind. Virtually any other MMO answers with “power”, whereas GW2 answers with “fashion”. Apparently, both approaches work. Obviously, there will be the player who prefer one and those who prefer the other.

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Posted by: marelooke.9708

marelooke.9708

If successful completion of the content and having fun with people you team with isn’t enough of an incentive to do the content, then you need to evaluate why you even play MMO’s in the first place, especially GW2.

GW2, yes. MMOs in general, no way.

The entire RPG genre’s gameplay is built around a reward-driven structure. RPGs are all about progression. Stats, items, collectibles, skills, levels, etc. This genre exists EXACTLY to attract the kind of players that enjoy a reward-driven structure.

It makes absolutely no sense for people to come and demand other to evaluate the RPG genre for not having the strong points of a RPG.

That’s like criticizing readers of horror novels that dislike a particular book because it had underwhelming horror elements in it. You can’t simply say “if you can’t enjoy a book simply because it’s fun, then you need to evaluate why you buy horror books”, which their reply will simply be “dude, I bought a horror book because I wanted a horror experience, and the book failed at that”. As simple as that.

The concept may seem alie too, but yes, rewards also contribute to how fun gameplay can be, and yes, there are players who enjoy reward-driven gameplay more, and yes, there are gaming genres that exist specifically for those kind of people: the RPG genre, which GW2 happens to be as well.

But even assuming the concept of a rewardless RPG that would be wonderfully fun, GW2 wouldn’t be it. We’re talking about a game with little to no difficulty in the open world. We’re talking about a game where most skills are useless, clumsy or balanced for pvp, which makes them feel underwhelming and unsatisfying to use in PvE. We’re talking about a game that still has repetitive grinds just as much as any other MMO, just with cosmetics instead of more powerful items. We’re talking about a game that forces you to go into jumping puzzles to complete map achievements, and then had a kitten bad game engine that puts invisible barriers and invisible ground everywhere you jump into.

I can go on, but GW2 isn’t exactly the champion of “fun” games. It has a lot of flaws in combat and exploration, and, for that reason, rewards are a wonderful tool the developers have (and need) to keep players interesting in the game.

GW2 had wonderful front-loaded sales, and then Anet went completely silent about their game’s popularity state after that, outside of developers admitting the game was bad at keeping players interesting and NCSoft expressing disappointment about HoT’s sales. Meanwhile, a game like FFXIV had a disastrous launch, it was rebuilt, and now it has surpassed GW2.

If GW2 was this “oh so wonderfully fun game, who needs rewards when this game is fun, fun, fun?”, it would likely have been at a better state. But it isn’t.

That’s your definition of what an RPG is supposed to be. I guarantee you that if you state your definition of an RPG as fact in an RPG forum there will be tar, feathers and a religious war on par with Vi vs Emacs in the old days. It’s not as clear cut as you like to make it out to be.

Moreover GW2 is a reward driven game, except the rewards don’t necessarily make you more powerful, rather they broadcast your achievements (do this thing, get this shiny to show off).

This is actually great since it keeps old content from becoming obsolete or trivial which is a big problem with level-grind/gearmill MMOs. Eg. newer WoW players will never understand how Sunwell Plateau, Ulduar or Ahn’Qirai, for example, were since power creep has made these raids trivial (Blizzard’ s tendency to entirely redo classes each expansion instead of building on them only confounds this issue). Moreover “revisiting” these old dungeons and raids fails to recreate what made them tick, the best examples being Naxxramas and the Temple of Atal’Hakkar which are pale imitations of what they used to be.

Clearly balance changes to GW2 also affect the available content to some extent, but the dungeons that were there at release are still very much relevant (despite them being “unsupported content”) and most definitely haven’t been turned trivial by extreme power creep as is the case in pretty much every other MMO.

This also highlights why MMOs have long since stopped being called MMORPGs: they no longer focus on providing an environment to role play and have fun in, rather they focus on abusing human psychology to keep players grinding forever. It’s why most of them focus on gear progression rather than on providing an environment for player character to “live” in, gear grind is much easier than shaping an actual “world” that is fun and engaging to be in. It’s also why people tend to drop MMOs once they get older: when the only fun is in the “endgame” which requires excessive amounts of time to stay up-to-date with then the only ones doing it are those with enough spare time on their hands.

There's no reward for higher lvl content.

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Posted by: Tryhard Pants.9745

Tryhard Pants.9745

Every MMO has a wall that you’re eventually gonna hit, except maybe games like Black Desert where you have no levelcap but that game doesn’t have challenging high lvl PvE.

In fact, I personally don’t know ANY mmo that has challenging PvE with a some sort of infinite gear/character progression.

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

You can’t rely on the content being a motivation by itself. This motivation exists, but it is exhausted MUCH faster. To make content creation cost effective, you must provide some additional motivation. In other words, grind. It’s always there, in any MMO. The only question is what should be the end result of that grind. Virtually any other MMO answers with “power”, whereas GW2 answers with “fashion”. Apparently, both approaches work. Obviously, there will be the player who prefer one and those who prefer the other.

Makes sense, yeah.

You can gain short-term or momentary motivation from “omg this is new!” or “omg this is difficult!!!”, but MMOs are played long-term hence we need something which pushes us to do doing it 50, 500 or 5000 times.

Fair enough, really. TY.

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: Menadena.7482

Menadena.7482

I have 15 characters. Does anyone think I bothered to get every possible piece of gear as ascended for all of them? For that matter there are plenty of things I have not maxed out. There is always something to do, even if I have accomplished the given goal on 14 characters of my menagerie.

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Posted by: Despond.2174

Despond.2174

There’s not enough spare hours in my life to do everything I want to in this game. There’s always something to do. If infinite gear/stats progression is more your style/grind then there’s a gazillion MMOs to quench that thirst for you. GW2 has plenty of end game and I am constantly traveling all over Tyria to do stuff.

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Posted by: HiddenNick.7206

HiddenNick.7206

Legendaries = ascended
Titles, auras, skins, decorations = nonsense

Mind If I ask why do you play the game? Because I think no one bothered to ask you that before. And I think that the answer is vital to even start this conversation.
And what for did you gathered all that gear?

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Posted by: Ashantara.8731

Ashantara.8731

2) Every new expansion should introduce gear that’s at least a little better than what was previously available.
3) “Legendary” weapons and armor should offer more than a drop-down box for stat combos… and a trail of glitter on the ground.

I agree on those two things. However, your definition of “better” might not be the same as mine.

See, with HoT we got better equipment in the form of being able to acquire four-stat armor, weapons and trinkets (which are more costly to craft). I assume the next expansion will hold other benefits, but not what you are looking for — “higher stats” is not going to happen, as it would completely break the game’s balance regarding previously released content. Also, GW1 wasn’t like that either and it’s one of the characteristics of GW the devs stayed true to in GW2 (I only wish they had done so in many other aspects as well).

(edited by Ashantara.8731)

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Posted by: Khisanth.2948

Khisanth.2948

Op I am telling you, I highly doubt you will find any gear treadmills fun in the current mmorpg market with a 75 80 hour work week, I played eso before gw2 and you have to invest quite a bit of time into the game because of the rng, even if you craft your own gear it takes a long time to get all your research done and use only crafted sets and trust me you will want to go beyond those.

Your telling me you unlocked all your masteries? The thing about guild wars 2 is your meant to play it moderately, you can play other games on the side, but again I do not recommend a gear treadmill the rng in most of them are pretty bad.

I agree i hate gear tread mills and would not play GW2 at all if they did that.

But im wondering why GW2 doesnt make unique rewards for X thing.

For instance a unique armor set for 10k PvP games played then 20k and 30k.

Same thing for WvW players.

Then for PvE players unique items for X amount of characters with 100% completion of core tyria.

People have talked a long time about why there isnt mini drops/rewards unique to a boss/event/ or achievement. They did it for the dungeon but then made it a item for guild mission in HOT.

I really wished they cared about the long term life of the game but they killed PvP aspect of this when they made levels super easy to obtain.

because that approach isn’t sustainable. People would just rush through it then you go back to square one of people saying there is no reward.

That is just a treadmill on the dev side of things.

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Posted by: RedDeadFred.1256

RedDeadFred.1256

I’ve never understood why people want a gear treadmill. If you need higher stats as an excuse to repeat content, then you probably don’t like the content all that much to begin with.

I play games for fun. Not for some arbitrary increase in number. I also don’t just repeat the same things in this game over and over. I do whatever I think I’ll have fun with on that given play session.

I hate gear treadmills. They’re just a crutch to make people think there’s more to do. If you need this in order to have fun, then the core mechanics of the game probably aren’t that enjoyable to you. Play something else. The idea of just playing one game is insane to me anyway. Gear treadmill or not, that would get old pretty fast.

That’s why I like this game. I know that if I take a break to go through some of my Steam backlog, play some Overwatch, or go back to an old favourite (Mount and Blade calls to me for several lengthy play sessions in a row at least once a month), my characters won’t suddenly be worthless when I come back. Idk, maybe this isn’t how you’re supposed to play mmos, but it’s why GW2 is the only mmo I play.

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Posted by: Tumult.2578

Tumult.2578

Let me give you some perspective.
I believe raiders have been extremely lucky that Anet needs to relearn that ever increasing difficulty, and reward, is unsustainable. They learned it once from the first year personal story but game control changed hands.

Here’s what you would have gotten in the past. The rewards for raiding would be simply standing on a leader board. That leader board would have levels. Each level gives you better standing and additional permanent AGONY in everything you do. That would be the only reward.

Accept that challenge and show how good you really are.

Not saying you bought your way to play difficult content instead of earning it but it seems like it. That makes you miss 90% of the fun of the game.

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Posted by: Dindin.2378

Dindin.2378

I did some more thinking and I think that being equals is not fun. Guild Wars 2 tries to give everybody the same opportunities. This is boring. I remember playing a MMORPG called Cabal Online. I used to farm a spot for hours and hours. Why? Because I knew that spot could drop one of the most powerful weapons in game, that only a handful of people have. Guild Wars 2 lacks the possibility to be more powerful than everybody else. You can be more ’ skilled’ but IMO there is not that much skill involved in playing Guild Wars 2, there is not enough build diversity to facilitate this type of gameplay. This is just some speculation, though. I am just trying to think about WHY this type of gameplay is boring for me and apparently for OP and WHY we want something more.

tl:dr: being equals is not fun, the fun is in being different, there has to be a king and someone who dreams to someday become that king. I think.

There are already many ways of being “different” in GW2. Including getting one of the very rare items, they just don’t make you more powerful than everyone else.

You are absolutely right. I ment power specific items, my bad.

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Posted by: Dindin.2378

Dindin.2378

It sounds like OP is playing the wrong game…
WoW is that way —-————>

I really dislike your mentality. This is the main mentality of the Guildwars 2 fan boys. It is even worse on Reddit. You seem to think that if someone is attacking what YOU like they should just leave the game, instead of thinking and helping them to make the game also right for them. It isn’t just one person having this feelings, there are many. Hell, I even left the game for 2 years because of this. Those could have been 2 years where I spent money in the gem store and supported the game.

No we won’t leave. I will be vocal about what I dislike and I will stay until I can’t enjoy the game anymore.

You’re fine to do that, but going off your posts on this thread (especially that “needs to be a king” one), I sincerely hope that a lot of the things you’re asking for never happen. It fundamentally goes against a lot of what myself and many other players enjoy about this game. I apologize if that comes across as rude, but for me, it’d be like if Fromsoft released a patch that made all of Dark Souls 3 easier (fundamentally going against something I love about a game).

Glad you’re still enjoying the game, but that you also seem to realize that it doesn’t need yo be the only thing you play.

Thank you for your comment. I totally understand the way you and others feel about the game. I just hope with enough brainpower we can find some kind of compromis that is good for both parties. I am afraid that the Fashion oriented gameplay is too niche. Ofcourse there exist many profitable niches in the world but I am not sure if the niche GW2 attracts is enough to sustain the game far after the coming expansion. Though this is just my speculation and I do not have any data about player base and profitability etc.