Guild Wars 2

FOX.3582:

I really really really don’t understand where this “small guilds can not have Guild Halls/Favor” talk is comming from. I see a lot of topics on it and people are saying the biggest nonsense I’ve ever seen here on the forums.

My guild has 2 people. Me and my wife.
We have our guild hall. We have almost 2000 favor. And we even have upgrades in our guild hall. The coolest thing that I am very proud of is the fact that until now we did not even spend gold on the upgrades, (and believe when I say we have more then enough gold/materials) what means that with patience and farming you can have this upgrades for almost free until a certain point.

Before HOT we could not even start a mission. We could not even obtain merits!

I don’t know about all this people saying otherwise but they just talk nonsense. The one thing HOT really did for us is making guilds very small guild friendly. Please friends do some more effort when you want to achieve something. Don’t come here on the forums asking for everything to be thrown at you.

FOX…

It’s not that you don’t understand. It’s that you don’t agree. Which is totally fine. It’s also totally fine not to agree with the way it’s implemented. As long as people present their opinions in a way that isn’t hurtful to others it’s all copacetic. Don’t hate on others opinions.

I still don’t understand how people can miss the point. I’m going to try using small words.

It’s not that people don’t want to work.

It’s that what they had worked for was taken away.

Progress was reset.

This is not rocket surgery.

Everyone who refuses to hear this simply seems to want to make themselves feel superior. If you’d take a moment and actually read what is being said, you’d see that you are countering arguments that very few people are even making.

Just love seeing all these people in what I like to refer as the “honeymoon phase” of guild halls.

Just wait till the second tiers…..that “oh it’s perfectly reasonable…we can do it” goes right out the window and a “what in the righteous ever living…who in the h e double hockey sticks….holy fish sticks” moves in.

Guhracie.3419:

I still don’t understand how people can miss the point. I’m going to try using small words.

It’s not that people don’t want to work.

It’s that what they had worked for was taken away.

Progress was reset.

This is not rocket surgery.

Everyone who refuses to hear this simply seems to want to make themselves feel superior. If you’d take a moment and actually read what is being said, you’d see that you are countering arguments that very few people are even making.

That’s what this community is.

And if you get annoyed about it, they just dismiss you as a “whiner” who “wants everything now”.

Well… I think the ‘stop critizing Guild Hall’ threads should be stopped lol! What is the use? Just post in an excisting GH thread if you want to respond.

Just a troll post, not back up with vids and any evidence and Fox , foxed ya all.
We did this, only play casually and funds are limited—-ya right.

Yeah, well, people lie on the internet all the time.

FOX.3582:

Uhhm why¿ Where do we contradict our self¿ Do you know what hypocrisy means¿

“This Guild Hall talk has to stop”

…followed by talking about Guild Hall issues.

Triangulator.2867:

Bloodstealer.5978:

Triangulator.2867:

OP is absolutely right. If you lack teamwork, organization and the skill necessary to take your hall, examine yourself. You are begging for a handout to achieve the reward people better organized, with higher priorities on teamwork and with more dedicated goal focused members have earned.

If you find yourself begging and pleading for a change to a system that rewards small guilds for hard work, realize you are not in a capable guild. Work with your small guild to achieve your goals. If you are consistently failing, making it easier for you now will only be hurting your development as a guild and as a gamer.

Will you be asking for everything along our path in GW2 be made easier and more attainable because you can’t do it? Or does this pandering end here by letting the unaccomplished gain access to a useless unupgraded hall?

Way to go .. you completely missed the point by a country mile.

It has nothing to do with organisation and teamwork.. if a 2 man guild like the OP’s lacked that then yeah.. that would be bad news for the guild.
It’s about retaining the effort but ensuring that effort/cost is spread equally throughout the guild spectrum… getting a guild hall is nothing more than a pug LFG… upgrading it is something quite different… 500 players collecting for example sand and seeds is nothing in comparison to what small guilds have to go through because someone didn’t bother to look into the mechanics of it all very well, in fact I would say it’s actually a pretty lazy content implementation with no thought other than “we now have guild halls”

It is the opposite. My point is on the money. Organizing a 500 man guild to be motivated to donate towards the hall at a pace fast enough and in quantities large enough to have guild unlocks as the aetherium becomes available is a tremendous effort. One in which you underestimate. Large guilds that can accomplish this have fantastic leaders and organization.

Small guilds, such as mine and OP’S, are able to keep up with similar organization and dedication. Failing to accomplish your goals is not the contents fault. But your own shortcomings. This is my problem. People unable to accomplish guild goals due to poor organization or lack of dedication crying foul.

Guild hall and its upgrades are designed for guilds large and small with both capable members and leaders. If you are struggling it is a sign that your guild is not healthy.

I just have a little bank guild.

It’s not supposed to be “healthy”; it’s just a little bank guild.

I liked that I could level it, slowly, on my own, while I just played the parts of the game I enjoyed.

Just as I could previously, with my little bank guild, in WoW.

It gave another dimension to the game.

A game which is sorely devoid of meaningful dimensions, IMHO.

When they abolished guild levels in WoW, not that long after I had fully levelled my bank guild, on my own, I didn’t even complain.

Because nothing was taken away from me; it was just given to others.

Whereas, this has taken something away and also forces people to play in a very specific way.

One which they, quite possibly, do not enjoy.

Or grab their credit card, yet again…

I have given Anet more than enough money, already and I am not going to turn into a full time mats farmer, or a solo runner of the one type of mission I might be able to do alone(?), just for a bank guild.

Snow.2048:

SkyShroud.2865:

Yea, you can pretty much ignore Bloodstealer.5978. Much of his posts are simply aggressive and bias. He is not here to discuss, but here to demand.

@Snow.2048
If you had phrase your other posts in this manner, maybe people will respond to you better as many of the complains’ focus weren’t the reset of progress but rather the cost of the current progress and how the current cost of progress should be tweaked in a manner that benefit the smaller guilds. Naturally, when one start to ask to tweak to favor certain party, another party will begin to attack because they are being penalized.

Anet respond to the full upgraded guild is a loose conversion, some statues and upgrades unlock. Of course, there are people who bough influence and now their investment have gone to waste. However, this too apply to the changes made for commander tag when anet decided to make it account bound. People who bought 100g tag get to benefit account-wide tag while people who bought more than 1 tag are not given a full refund but a partial refund by using the 300g as the new standard cost. So, is it fair for the people who bought more than 1 tag when the others got their account-wide tag for 100g? Not really, anet respond is indifferent. So, in other words, you can be sure that anet respond to this is indifferent as well since anet is determine to push forward with this. People who realize that simply decided to move on.

I tend to focus on these things in my serious posts, or at least try to. Others sometimes do not, which is why I tried to be careful not to (mis)representative of them, I am sorry if I failed.

I would like to bring the hypothesis that, given that many people are complaining at the costs and given that much of the cost is related to restoring previous features, that a better grandfathering would go/have gone a long way in stilling/preventing a portion of these complaints as the players wouldn’t be gathering for restoration but for true progress of the guild itself.
I know that I for one, while tending towards the negative side, would be less sympathetic to other’s complaints of the actual costs if I actually still had my guilds formally essential features, for many of the same reasons presented by others as there is sound logic to them. This is, however, not the case and therefore the argument is being flooded with complaints back and forth of symptoms, and the underlying cause keeps getting buried.

As to your example, it is actually a decent one if we were to look at the whole feature instead of what you present, and add a new scenario that didn’t happen in reality but would be more accurate. The original plan with the account binding of the commander tag was to charge extra for the different colors as well as grandfathering the old tags to just have blue. There was huge backlash, and they changed their plan to what you present. Neither of the scenarios are actually akin to the guild halls.
Imagine if you would, if Arenanet decided instead to go with removing the tags from all commanders who had one, increased the price to rebuy them, but allowed the former commanders to still check supply. To regain functionality, they would have to invest more than their initial, on top of the burn that is they had feature removed from their character.
That would be more equivalent to the guild situation, and this is in mind why we should discuss this and not close the discussion (as this thread is actually on closing the discussion, and our continued opening of the discussion could be considered off-topic which was the original goal of my post to point the absurdity of, but I digress)

So what they did was a good grandfathering. What they planned was reasonable grandfathering, but met with great backlash for similar reasons that are being debated with great fervour throughout the forums on costs. What they could have done in the hypothetical was not good grandfathering, and would have inspired even greater backlash, which is in my mind the equivalent in so far as the comparison can be drawn to what has happened here.

I would prefer that they move to better grandfathering to make either the second or perhaps even the top bracket of the example.

The grandfathering for commander tag wasn’t perfect because there were people who still lose out in the change. However, there is less repulsion because many people benefit from it by getting a account-wide tag for 100g. Those who are rich enough to buy more than a single tag, naturally, they did complain for a bit but quickly get over it, maybe because they are rich enough to absorb the unfairness.

Now, the grandfathering for the guild hall isn’t that popular to some people because they didn’t get any benefit out of it like the commander tag, for example, free tier 1 building upgrades. It is because people did not get anything, they complain, it is natural, it is human greed. Of course, if anet does give a free tier 1 building upgrades, it will also make it unfair to all the guilds that started during HOT. It is a very hard transition progress, how to make it fair for the new HOT guilds while not giving too much advantage to the pre-HOT guilds.

On a side note, honestly, if the people who complain about the current cost of progression simply want to reduce the cost for everyone, I think that will gain more supports from people but many people who complain about the cost of progression simply want the cost to be reduced for a certain group of people and that naturally isn’t very popular with many.

Edit: I am one of the guys who bought more than a tag, I think I bought 4 tags so yea, I paid 200g more than the rest who bought it at 100g.

Ah I misunderstood, sorry I thought you meant the people who paid more post update. (I actually thought people with multiple got compensated considering how fast it went but you would know better than I). However, it still not comparable because they didn’t remove functionality from anyone who had it, they just didn’t acknowledge those who had multiple. So basically, different people paid different amounts, but they all kept their functionality and gained the new functionality that was inherent so couldn’t be separated (without extra work).
Guild halls removes functionality, it would be like if they took the tag away from those who had it so to speak, gave it some extras and used the extras to justify making all the previous owner repurchase, regardless of how many tags they have or for how long they’ve had them.
And now the “rich” players (which translate to the current situation as guilds with a strong enough market presence or have enough farmers) shrug and buy back their functionality and tell others to stop complaining.

So I say that this situation is worse than the commander tag, being more comparable to the “let’s reset the fractals because we want to add a leader board” on a larger scale (affects more people). And I’m bringing it up now because in a month or two, it’ll all be forgotten. Then next xpac/feature patch hits and it happens again (as this is a design decision) in a game of how often can we get people to pay for an altered, but ultimately repackaged thing designed to reset progress so the players will fill up part of their time with work to get back to where they were before the xpac.

It may be a small issue in the end, but I don’t agree with the idea behind it. I don’t want to see it becoming continuously more acceptable to take things away.

^ Exactly.

Well said.

How do you have a guild hall and do missions with 2 people.

I must have misunderstood something huge about the new mechanics.

Labjax.2465:

How do you have a guild hall and do missions with 2 people.

I must have misunderstood something huge about the new mechanics.

You can do the basic Bounties for 300 favour each week in PvE… not really that tuff anymore but moving up to the next tier becomes a little more difficult unless you get outside help to push you along… the wvw ones I don’t think you can actually do with 2 as it requires 3 to claim a location if I remember the heads up on it before launch (not done a wvw one yet so might have to check on that though).
PvP – no idea never even looked at it tbh.

Snow.2048:

Ah I misunderstood, sorry I thought you meant the people who paid more post update. (I actually thought people with multiple got compensated considering how fast it went but you would know better than I). However, it still not comparable because they didn’t remove functionality from anyone who had it, they just didn’t acknowledge those who had multiple. So basically, different people paid different amounts, but they all kept their functionality and gained the new functionality that was inherent so couldn’t be separated (without extra work).
Guild halls removes functionality, it would be like if they took the tag away from those who had it so to speak, gave it some extras and used the extras to justify making all the previous owner repurchase, regardless of how many tags they have or for how long they’ve had them.
And now the “rich” players (which translate to the current situation as guilds with a strong enough market presence or have enough farmers) shrug and buy back their functionality and tell others to stop complaining.

So I say that this situation is worse than the commander tag, being more comparable to the “let’s reset the fractals because we want to add a leader board” on a larger scale (affects more people). And I’m bringing it up now because in a month or two, it’ll all be forgotten. Then next xpac/feature patch hits and it happens again (as this is a design decision) in a game of how often can we get people to pay for an altered, but ultimately repackaged thing designed to reset progress so the players will fill up part of their time with work to get back to where they were before the xpac.

It may be a small issue in the end, but I don’t agree with the idea behind it. I don’t want to see it becoming continuously more acceptable to take things away.

Honestly, anet has been doing this kind of things for the past 3 years, is just the matter of scales. People did complain but eventually, people accept it. The most anet ever do is the just tweak it to make it slightly easier to obtain.

So, basically, we paid for early access to the game where anet is still doing all kinds of experiments.

Bloodstealer.5978:

Labjax.2465:

How do you have a guild hall and do missions with 2 people.

I must have misunderstood something huge about the new mechanics.

You can do the basic Bounties for 300 favour each week in PvE… not really that tuff anymore but moving up to the next tier becomes a little more difficult unless you get outside help to push you along… the wvw ones I don’t think you can actually do with 2 as it requires 3 to claim a location if I remember the heads up on it before launch (not done a wvw one yet so might have to check on that though).
PvP – no idea never even looked at it tbh.

PvP I remember seeing that you need 3 for it. I guess I can see how you’d make some progress if one mission is possible. I’m assuming they asked for help for claiming their guild hall though. I’ve never heard of 2 people claiming one.

It is possible to capture a guild hall with two people and I think there are probably quite a few guilds out there who have captured a guild hall this way. Here’s the video from our guild hall capture. It isn’t pretty, but it worked.

https://youtu.be/T0TSUo1_vF8

I record it and I’m not a very experienced staff elementalist. I’m sure the players out there who solo/duo dungeons often would have an easy time claiming a guild hall.

Dagger.2035:

It is possible to capture a guild hall with two people and I think there are probably quite a few guilds out there who have captured a guild hall this way. Here’s the video from our guild hall capture. It isn’t pretty, but it worked.

https://youtu.be/T0TSUo1_vF8

I record it and I’m not a very experienced staff elementalist. I’m sure the players out there who solo/duo dungeons often would have an easy time claiming a guild hall.

Huh. Ok.

What a load of waffle. Are you really telling me its a perfect system?

1. Most guilds should have had a bunch of this stuff unlocked right from the start. They took 2 years of effort away from my guild and threw it all down the drain.

2. There is no incentive to donate to the guild hall. Members throw in their resources and get pretty much nothing in return. Honestly, it is just another material sink.

3. The progression is messed up. PvP guilds want arena, WvW guilds want more supply and catapults. They have to jump through many hoops to actually get them.

4. They still have not fixed the guild mission system. People are missing out on rewards, different guilds are fighting over who gets mission credit, and other issues.

If you can make it work, then good for you. Its still a horrible system.

Labjax.2465:

Bloodstealer.5978:

Labjax.2465:

How do you have a guild hall and do missions with 2 people.

I must have misunderstood something huge about the new mechanics.

You can do the basic Bounties for 300 favour each week in PvE… not really that tuff anymore but moving up to the next tier becomes a little more difficult unless you get outside help to push you along… the wvw ones I don’t think you can actually do with 2 as it requires 3 to claim a location if I remember the heads up on it before launch (not done a wvw one yet so might have to check on that though).
PvP – no idea never even looked at it tbh.

PvP I remember seeing that you need 3 for it. I guess I can see how you’d make some progress if one mission is possible. I’m assuming they asked for help for claiming their guild hall though. I’ve never heard of 2 people claiming one.

Yeah kinda thought that would be min 3 as well, makes sense.

As fir them getting their Hall with just 2… it’s more than likely just BS for the sake of the “mememe” moment he hoped to gain from his post. I am almost certain that they brought in outside help to complete the Guild Hall Mission, but there is nothing wrong with that.
As for the missions.. 2 man guild = very slow favour accumulation – upgrading the Hall from ground up to the Mine – nah I still smell a big fast rat on that. Guild Leaders know just how much time, effort and costs are involved and a 2 man band just wont be able to get them that quickly.. .. so yeah I still think there is a whole chunk of “I am not telling the whole truth” still missing from the outset… but really let’s just say grz to him and get on with our own farming.

SkyShroud.2865:

Honestly, anet has been doing this kind of things for the past 3 years, is just the matter of scales. People did complain but eventually, people accept it. The most anet ever do is the just tweak it to make it slightly easier to obtain.

So, basically, we paid for early access to the game where anet is still doing all kinds of experiments.

I agree completely, which is why I start posting when these things show up to voice my continued concerns.

I do like Anet’s willingness to experiment and fill out the game (eg this round they tried to add more challenging content, skins for specific content and long term goals [all permanent thankfully!], which were things that have had plenty of requests for)

I just wish it wouldn’t cost my character/account/guild progress.

Excludee.3850:

Guhracie.3419:

I still don’t understand how people can miss the point. I’m going to try using small words.

It’s not that people don’t want to work.

It’s that what they had worked for was taken away.

Progress was reset.

This is not rocket surgery.

Everyone who refuses to hear this simply seems to want to make themselves feel superior. If you’d take a moment and actually read what is being said, you’d see that you are countering arguments that very few people are even making.

That’s what this community is.

And if you get annoyed about it, they just dismiss you as a “whiner” who “wants everything now”.

Exactly as what was once a model ideal for what other gaming communities should aspire to has taken a complete 180 with the launch of HoT. Heck it says something when the devs choose to implement something that even WoW got rid off do to it’s destructive effect on the gaming community.
(Referring to Guild bonuses tied to guild rank and how people will refuse to join up and coming smaller friendlier guilds and jump right in the larger mega guilds because those larger guilds have a greater XP/Stat buff. Everyone is removing such features but HoT decides to go full steam in the opposite direction.)

Holy… The amount of blatant trolling and rude comments on this thread is ridiculous. OP shows up saying, “Hey guys! This is totally possible! Work hard and stop crying for nerfs and playing credit card wars!” and he gets nothing but flak for it.

No, I doubt OP and his wife two-personed the capture event, but that’s what friends are for. This is a MMO, for Lyssa’s sake. Get friends to help you claim, then do all the upgrades yourself. It takes nothing but tenacity.

Seriously, the number of “BS” and “muh small guild” comments is just stupid. Get some class, people.

Nice work, OP! Keep going at it! =D

Blair.3796:

Holy… The amount of blatant trolling and rude comments on this thread is ridiculous. OP shows up saying, “Hey guys! This is totally possible! Work hard and stop crying for nerfs and playing credit card wars!” and he gets nothing but flak for it.

Actually the OP, “showed up,” and told everyone who holds an opinion with which he disagrees that they have to stop posting their views. Of course he, and presumably those who agree with him, are exempt from his unilateral decision about what opinions are permissable on these forums.

I have to admit that there are parts of HOT that are really fun, like gliding, and I have to give the developers props!
That said, after seeing what was done to guilds and fractals and the core game, I regret buying it and wont recommend it to anyone.

Triangulator.2867:

Small guilds, such as mine and OP’S, are able to keep up with similar organization and dedication. Failing to accomplish your goals is not the contents fault. But your own shortcomings. This is my problem. People unable to accomplish guild goals due to poor organization or lack of dedication crying foul.

From what people have told me, most of the guild missions are literally incapable of being completed in groups of less than three players, even if two players are able to complete the tasks that it gives, it just wont give them credit.

Simply put, I don’t believe the claim that they have a well upgraded hall, and they haven’t provided evidence for it, such as a log showing that they managed to do this as a two person guild rather than as a currently 2 person guild that just kicked/had people leave, or leaned heavily on favour from pre-release.

A screenshot of the logs leading back to the release of HoT would probably work.

FOX.3582:

Ty guys. I already submitted a ticked tho. Its just so so so freaking scary! Yesterday it was weird indeed. Guildchats where lagging. All of my guildmembers were not visible, the emblem was gone too. My wife could see the guildbank but she could not withdraw stuff. But today when I logged in, I saw the members, level, and status again. Only now it’s like tho whole guild bank is not there. I also cant enter that office in LA and when i talk to the registrant/greeter it tells me that it need to speak to a leader or officer. Really weird stuff is going on here. Ty Edgar for your peptalk tho mate :p…

Btw, all the other guild I’m in have no visible problems as far as i can see.

Pro-tip: Don’t claim to be a 2 player guild… after posting that you aren’t. It’s obvious that you’re either lying, or you just booted/were abandoned by all your members.

Eponet.4829:

Triangulator.2867:

Small guilds, such as mine and OP’S, are able to keep up with similar organization and dedication. Failing to accomplish your goals is not the contents fault. But your own shortcomings. This is my problem. People unable to accomplish guild goals due to poor organization or lack of dedication crying foul.

From what people have told me, most of the guild missions are literally incapable of being completed in groups of less than three players, even if two players are able to complete the tasks that it gives, it just wont give them credit.

Pvp and wvw are impossible with less than 3, pve has no minimum just recommended.
(source: Me and my bro trying to two man everything)

Well, to the op, I partially call BS. I don’t see how you could have accomplished the clearing event to get the guild hall with 2 people. You have to have recruited some friends to help with that.

2nd, most of the guild missions require at least 3 people, so again, you and your wife are SOOL.

3rd, there’s more to just obtaining a guild hall to the game. WvW in particular is totally screwed, as our upgrades and buffs are directly tied to not only guild upgrades, but scribing, which is tied to guild upgrades. There’s no way a small guild can compete with large guilds considering the hundreds of gold worth of items and the massive amount of intagables you can not even buy with gold needed for upgrades.

Oh, and lets not forget the fact that many of us had guilds with everything unlocked for years, but it’s now all gone and will never be accessible.

So, yeah, some of us are allowed to complain and are perfectly justified in doing so.

Snow.2048:

Eponet.4829:

Triangulator.2867:

Small guilds, such as mine and OP’S, are able to keep up with similar organization and dedication. Failing to accomplish your goals is not the contents fault. But your own shortcomings. This is my problem. People unable to accomplish guild goals due to poor organization or lack of dedication crying foul.

From what people have told me, most of the guild missions are literally incapable of being completed in groups of less than three players, even if two players are able to complete the tasks that it gives, it just wont give them credit.

Pvp and wvw are impossible with less than 3, pve has no minimum just recommended.
(source: Me and my bro trying to two man everything)

I’ll have to give it a try, it’s kind of stupid that they require it though. If two people are good enough to claim a keep somehow, then they should be credited for it.

Also it doesn’t change the fact that the original poster claimed in the past that they weren’t a 2 player guild, had a guild message listing schedules (something clearly unnecessary for a husband/wife guild), and that they had a few members.

Yes.. we are allowed to complain.. I was ok with with the trade-able items in mass numbers.. that can actually be farmed together to save gold or bought.

But then they decided.. oh let’s throw in direct Gold (no way around) things like Icy runestones, Runes of holding in hefty quantities. And even more annoying time gated things like Charged Quartz to slow everything down

Give up your shovels as well, I mean seriously 50 shovels, 100 shovels 50 shovels. Especially when shovel drops have been pretty bad.

Of all this.. I would be slightly happier if they made Charged Quartz tradeable or Ley line sparks tradeable so we can actually share with each other.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Well, to the op, I partially call BS. I don’t see how you could have accomplished the clearing event to get the guild hall with 2 people. You have to have recruited some friends to help with that.

2nd, most of the guild missions require at least 3 people, so again, you and your wife are SOOL.

3rd, there’s more to just obtaining a guild hall to the game. WvW in particular is totally screwed, as our upgrades and buffs are directly tied to not only guild upgrades, but scribing, which is tied to guild upgrades. There’s no way a small guild can compete with large guilds considering the hundreds of gold worth of items and the massive amount of intagables you can not even buy with gold needed for upgrades.

Oh, and lets not forget the fact that many of us had guilds with everything unlocked for years, but it’s now all gone and will never be accessible.

So, yeah, some of us are allowed to complain and are perfectly justified in doing so.

He admitted he is in another guild and they helped. So yeah his real guild helped him and his wife get their personal guild. Bravo OP, you and your buddies in your main guild all probably helped each other get personal guild halls. Good job, now your real guild has multiple guild halls and arenas available. That’s probably how you got all your shovels also, everyone in the big guild helping each other to get arenas unlocked.

So the key to unlocking guild halls and upgrades for small guilds is to be in a large guild. Makes perfect sense. So we should all be quiet now because its possible for people in large guilds to unlock personal stuff.