Guild Wars 2

This Whining meta has to end. It has killed thread diversity too long. This game has such a great deal of things to discuss about, and you should truly be able to talk about all of them. However, unless you browse really closely or create your own thread, then people will lure you into stupid threads that have been argued for longer than a year. Start creating interesting threads!

Exactly this. Teamwork is not blasting your buddy’s fire field – you can screw that up and maybe the fight takes 20 seconds longer. Teamwork is something that if you fail at, your entire party fails. GW2 does have much teamwork at all… only forces via the environment (i.e. two people stand on a pressure plate).

Actually it is teamwork, you’re working together to create a result not possible with one person (extra might blasts).

What you’re asking for is forced reliance on one another, or in other words, a trinity. GW2 is not that game.

Why are you playing?

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

“soloing a dungeon in soldiers takes more skill“ – Are you serious ?
Have you ever soloed a dungeon, have you ever compared berserker to soldiers !? I don’t know what you see as skilled but being able to facetank more hits isn’t skill for me.

Honestly, this one is a candidate for the statement of the year!

Do it and tell me if it is even possible to solo a dungeon in soldier’s.

You can solo in pretty much any gear as long as the bosses don’t have too high regeneration or you don’t fail your evades.

GrimmR.3541:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

“soloing a dungeon in soldiers takes more skill“ – Are you serious ?
Have you ever soloed a dungeon, have you ever compared berserker to soldiers !? I don’t know what you see as skilled but being able to facetank more hits isn’t skill for me.

Honestly, this one is a candidate for the statement of the year!

Do it and tell me if it is even possible to solo a dungeon in soldier’s.

You can solo in pretty much any gear as long as the bosses don’t have too high regeneration or you don’t fail your evades.

Others have already answered you, I have “discussed” this in several posts. Not really sure what there is left to say.

I have never seen a dungeon solo run in tanky gear and would love to see it – I don’t buy that those doing it have no options to make videos of it. If you know any videos give me the link.

Those who manage to solo a dungeon in none zerker’s gear have more skills in my opinion – I have pointed out why, others have pointed out why. So, again, give me a link so I can be proven wrong.

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

“soloing a dungeon in soldiers takes more skill“ – Are you serious ?
Have you ever soloed a dungeon, have you ever compared berserker to soldiers !? I don’t know what you see as skilled but being able to facetank more hits isn’t skill for me.

Honestly, this one is a candidate for the statement of the year!

Do it and tell me if it is even possible to solo a dungeon in soldier’s.

You can solo in pretty much any gear as long as the bosses don’t have too high regeneration or you don’t fail your evades.

Others have already answered you, I have “discussed” this in several posts. Not really sure what there is left to say.

I have never seen a dungeon solo run in tanky gear and would love to see it – I don’t buy that those doing it have no options to make videos of it. If you know any videos give me the link.

Those who manage to solo a dungeon in none zerker’s gear have more skills in my opinion – I have pointed out why, others have pointed out why. So, again, give me a link so I can be proven wrong.

Not a whole dungeon but shows very well how tankier gear trivialises the content.

http://youtu.be/5-zKXILTkQo

Taku.6352:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

“soloing a dungeon in soldiers takes more skill“ – Are you serious ?
Have you ever soloed a dungeon, have you ever compared berserker to soldiers !? I don’t know what you see as skilled but being able to facetank more hits isn’t skill for me.

Honestly, this one is a candidate for the statement of the year!

Do it and tell me if it is even possible to solo a dungeon in soldier’s.

You can solo in pretty much any gear as long as the bosses don’t have too high regeneration or you don’t fail your evades.

Others have already answered you, I have “discussed” this in several posts. Not really sure what there is left to say.

I have never seen a dungeon solo run in tanky gear and would love to see it – I don’t buy that those doing it have no options to make videos of it. If you know any videos give me the link.

Those who manage to solo a dungeon in none zerker’s gear have more skills in my opinion – I have pointed out why, others have pointed out why. So, again, give me a link so I can be proven wrong.

Not a whole dungeon but shows very well how tankier gear trivialises the content.

http://youtu.be/5-zKXILTkQo

Alright, but I still mean a whole dungeon, not just one part of it =) Thanks though.

I’ll say this once and once only. There is only one solution to balancing anything and that is mastery of temporal calculations.

juno.1840:

Piratoz.8627:

Until several major things change, zerker meta will stay as the prevalent build for all classes in GW2. Why is that you say?

1. No holy trinity. The holy trinity remains as the primary way of designing a combat system in MMOs. It works well and is easy to make content for. However, in guild wars 2 the 2 sides of the trinity: tanking and healing either don’t exist or just kind of suck. There is no way to reliably control aggro, tank stats are pretty useless other than for personal survival. Healing power scales extremely poorly for PVE and is largely seen as useless as every class has a heal skill with high base healing. Instead the “trinity” of gw2 was advertised as DPS, support, and control. However this leads me to my second point…

2. No matter what you build, your CC and boon giving abilities are pretty much the same. The zerker elementalist is going to give roughly the same amount of boons as the full soldiers elementalist. Outside of boon duration, there is really no way to make your support or control abilities stronger. By building any stat except for damage you are really just gimping your party in a way unless you can’t survive. However this leads me to my third point…

3. Content in guild wars 2 is easy. There. I said it. You can view it how you want, but in my opinion, content in guild wars 2, especially older content is fairly easy compared to other popular MMOs because of one mechanic: Dodge. I love dodging in this game, however the ability to have evade frames for a good second at any time if you have the endurance to pay for it makes it so that even the glassiest of characters can survive almost all encounters in the game. I have a feeling that Arenanet won’t change this as they have the motto of “play how you want”. While some players may make this excuse to take strange or “unoptimal” builds, it works both ways. The full cleric guardian should theoretically be able to complete the same content as the 11k hp elementalist. This leads me to my final point…

4. Because of these reasons, there is no real need for teamwork . This is by far one of the biggest gripes I have with the game. Your thief and elementalist are dead or downed? Guardian AFK? Thats okay! Chances are, if you or the other person are good enough you could probably solo or duo the boss. Every class is self sufficient. While this does have its strengths, it really detracts from the most challenging aspect of MMOs, and in my opinion, the part that is the most fun: working as a team to beat challenging content.

I’m not saying that I hate Guild Wars 2. I love playing the game. However like most things, there are many things that could be improved in this game, one of which is the combat. There will be many people who disagree with me, however one of the best parts about playing an MMO is working with other people, often people that you don’t know. The holy trinity was an easy way to make it so that it was necessary to play the different roles and work with other people.

TLDR: I do believe that gw2 can find a way to make their “soft trinity” combat system work, but right now PVE really needs some love from the developers. Until there are major changes to combat or the way encounters are designed, the only trinity in the game is power, precision, and ferocity.

Exactly this. Teamwork is not blasting your buddy’s fire field – you can screw that up and maybe the fight takes 20 seconds longer. Teamwork is something that if you fail at, your entire party fails. GW2 does have much teamwork at all… only forces via the environment (i.e. two people stand on a pressure plate).

Q1: Ever did arah?
Q2: Ever played guardian?
Q3: Ever played high level fractals?
Q4: Ever participated in a speedrun?

Yep, the game isn’t hard at first especially if you don’t leave ac. In more difficult conditions ( something anet doesn’t want to support (ironically)), defensive support is needed. At least for offensive geared user, since ptv guards and warriors can still fail to dodge and facetank.

This again?

1. ppl will always find the optimal doesn’t matter what it is. Changing a meta for PvE where you don’t have the receiving end crying about balance is kind of pointless.

2. It’s easy to find a group that is accepting of different stat allocations.

3. High end stuff does in fact benefit equally from having diverse builds outside of zerk and relies much higher on communication and coordination than it does specific builds. (although maybe specific traits and utilities are common)

I realistically think it’s fine, although there is an influx of zerker players who also want other zerkers it’s not really that big an issue. Unless you are part of a group of friends forcing you to roll zerk there isn’t much to complain about.

That being said I think it’s perfectly reasonable for people to get mad at people using the wrong builds and trying to do something they shouldn’t. Like refusing to let anyone else do door in CoF p1 while rolling a nomad guard.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

I don’t think the trinity affects as much as people think. In most games with a trinity the class/profession you choose will decide what role you will be taking, whether its DPS, tank, or healing. In a game like GW1 there was a trinity but almost any class could fill any role. Yes I know some primary classes were tankier because of armor but the skills made it so anyone could do anything.

In GW2 every class pretty much has the ability to do anything also. Sure some classes are better at some things but most classes can fill multiple roles depending on build. The problem is that there is not any content that warrants having a healer or a tank. Since most dangerous things are conditions that can be easily removed and straight damage that is easily dodged, experience, skill and DPS will rule all encounters and dictate the meta. This is the core issue that those asking for zerker to be nerfed do not understand.

Until something is done about conditions and dodging the meta will stay where its at. I also want to say I am not asking for dodging or conditions to get nerfed. They just need to be reworked a little bit.

Thats exactly the thing I am speaking about though. When you say “The problem is that there is not any content that warrants having a healer or a tank.” Thats what other MMOs do to force people in those roles. It is simply impossible to have content that warrants a healer and a tank and at the same time leaves you free to play any role you want and at the same time it also allows you the freedom to play any role you want on any class.

Case in point is when you say "Since most dangerous things are conditions that can be easily removed " Thats a support role right there even though in this case you’re supporting yourself so to speak.

DPS rules everything everywhere because naturally thats what you want when you’re trying to kill stuff. Its Like I said not everyone goes DPS in other MMOs simply because content is designed as such that without having tank and healer you’re going to fail. Tanks and healers in those games pay the same price someone who doesnt go full damage in this game pays and to a higher degree. Lets not forget that Tanks and healer classes are great in dungeons and raids in those games but they’re the worst roles you can having in all other PvE. Especially healer they’re orders of magnitude slower to level then a straight up DPS build much much much worst then you get in this game if you go with a support build. Its basically excepted over there cause the game puts a gun to player’s head in like 5% of the content where not having a healer means a guaranteed failure.

Don’t join Zerk groups.
Don’t join Meta groups.
Make your own groups.
Problem solved.

Leo G.4501:

Jerus.4350:

Different gear in PVE is to give a difficulty scale honestly. Do you want more passive defense to make up for your inability to perfectly use your active defense? then grab soldiers or something.

I feel this is just an excuse. Why grind in a dungeon for tankier armor if you couldn’t already complete the content? Why have that as a reward for dungeon completes if you needed it to complete dungeons?

I say just stop trying to sugar coat it and just say armor choice in most PvE is shoddy at worst and just lack of forethought at best. And I doubt the devs intended for content to be burned down as quickly as it is today or could foretell how players’ tactics would gravitate to specific AI exploitation.

The “they couldn’t foresee” excuse people give the devs is probably one of the worst ones I’ve seen.

People do this in every game.
The developers at Anet aren’t new to the business. Before they started work on GW2 they had another game up – GW1.

Do you know what happened there?
Players abused every game mechanic from AI to skills in order to get better and faster rewards. I don’t think you can just wave it off as “they didn’t think about it” since at least GW1 should have given them good indication that players will do whatever it takes to get good loot.

And people aren’t even “exploiting” the bad AI. The AI is not bad. The AI is designed to not be challenging to good players because if it was it would roflstomp all the average and bad players into not playing.

Imagine if every encounter felt like a balanced match of sPVP. A small fraction of the player base would be off the wall with joy while the rest would get frustrated and upset.

How do I know this? Let’s look at the industry.

COD: AW – which launched about a month ago has something called skill based match making and is using it very extensively when matching you up with other people.
The result? You play against people of your skill level and most matches are challenging and you have to try really hard to do well ( because the other guys are).

What do the players say?

Almost unanimously people hate it. Because it means you have to go hard, try hard and push hard in every game or else you’ll get stomped. And that makes people frustrated, tired and burns them out.

Video games are a power fantasy – the moment they stop fulfilling that fantasy role is the moment people become dissatisfied with them.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Azhure.1857:

After rereading my own post I can’t help but notice how it sounds like I’m trying to bring back the ‘Holy Trinity’ into this game. While I do miss it sometimes, its not exactly what I wish for here. I enjoy diversity. * shrugs * I really do. Just wish other sides of the new Trinity: Damage, Support, and Control could be more distinguished. More rewarded. Not to such a severe degree that we have the traditional tank/dps/healer system… but enough to where wearing something other than Zerk and stacking dps traits would be warranted.

I mean what is the point of even having other gear stats at all, at this point?

Reasons for other geat sets:

• WvW
• PvE players who want more survivability or whatever
• PvE players who need more survivability or whatever
• PvE players who have an image of how their character performs
• PvE players who couldn’t t care less about the meta
• PvE players who like to experiment

Gear sets do not exist only for high-end play. You might also ask, “What is the point of traits, weapons and utility skills that are not used in the meta?” If you did, I’d provide the same answers.

Anet grafted an old-style MMO stat system onto a flexible skill system vaguely similar to the skill system they used in GW. Seeing the “standard” MMO stat types, people expect standard MMO diversity rooted in gear choices. Instead, diversity in GW2 team play is — as others have stated — based on what your character brings to the group to complement what others are bringing. That’s the disconnect.

If only more people read and understood this.

juno.1840:

Piratoz.8627:

Until several major things change, zerker meta will stay as the prevalent build for all classes in GW2. Why is that you say?

1. No holy trinity. The holy trinity remains as the primary way of designing a combat system in MMOs. It works well and is easy to make content for. However, in guild wars 2 the 2 sides of the trinity: tanking and healing either don’t exist or just kind of suck. There is no way to reliably control aggro, tank stats are pretty useless other than for personal survival. Healing power scales extremely poorly for PVE and is largely seen as useless as every class has a heal skill with high base healing. Instead the “trinity” of gw2 was advertised as DPS, support, and control. However this leads me to my second point…

2. No matter what you build, your CC and boon giving abilities are pretty much the same. The zerker elementalist is going to give roughly the same amount of boons as the full soldiers elementalist. Outside of boon duration, there is really no way to make your support or control abilities stronger. By building any stat except for damage you are really just gimping your party in a way unless you can’t survive. However this leads me to my third point…

3. Content in guild wars 2 is easy. There. I said it. You can view it how you want, but in my opinion, content in guild wars 2, especially older content is fairly easy compared to other popular MMOs because of one mechanic: Dodge. I love dodging in this game, however the ability to have evade frames for a good second at any time if you have the endurance to pay for it makes it so that even the glassiest of characters can survive almost all encounters in the game. I have a feeling that Arenanet won’t change this as they have the motto of “play how you want”. While some players may make this excuse to take strange or “unoptimal” builds, it works both ways. The full cleric guardian should theoretically be able to complete the same content as the 11k hp elementalist. This leads me to my final point…

4. Because of these reasons, there is no real need for teamwork . This is by far one of the biggest gripes I have with the game. Your thief and elementalist are dead or downed? Guardian AFK? Thats okay! Chances are, if you or the other person are good enough you could probably solo or duo the boss. Every class is self sufficient. While this does have its strengths, it really detracts from the most challenging aspect of MMOs, and in my opinion, the part that is the most fun: working as a team to beat challenging content.

I’m not saying that I hate Guild Wars 2. I love playing the game. However like most things, there are many things that could be improved in this game, one of which is the combat. There will be many people who disagree with me, however one of the best parts about playing an MMO is working with other people, often people that you don’t know. The holy trinity was an easy way to make it so that it was necessary to play the different roles and work with other people.

TLDR: I do believe that gw2 can find a way to make their “soft trinity” combat system work, but right now PVE really needs some love from the developers. Until there are major changes to combat or the way encounters are designed, the only trinity in the game is power, precision, and ferocity.

Exactly this. Teamwork is not blasting your buddy’s fire field – you can screw that up and maybe the fight takes 20 seconds longer. Teamwork is something that if you fail at, your entire party fails. GW2 does have much teamwork at all… only forces via the environment (i.e. two people stand on a pressure plate).

I’m against this 100%.

GW2 is the only MMO with a decent level of self-sufficiency. It’s the only MMO where people failing doesn’t drag me down.
It’s the only MMO where you work together towards a common goal but aren’t chained to each other.

One person being terrible doesn’t destroy every boss encounter.

And it should stay that way. Team work is a part of the game and is required.
Being chained to others and punished for their mistake is not a part of the game and is most certainly not required.

Self-sufficiency for every character was their goal from the get-go. It’s a core and fundamental aspect of the game.

Combat in GW2 was designed around PvP, so in PvE it’s basically crippled. The main thing needed is dps and thus this meta, i don’t believe there’s a way around it or a fix for it at this point. Sure, every now and then, AN can release some content which would draw other gear sets more favorable compared to zerker (Teq, Wurm), but that’s always gonna be a minor thing in PvE, a sidekick, because the main body of this game is different, it favors zerker set up and to change that they will need to change how game works in PvE and i don’t think it’s possible, it would basically require a complete rework of existing content. They can, however, design future content differently, where it will allow players to fill some different roles not in a way that they will have to wear different gear sets (btw, here you all still think in that “Holy Trinity” mindset, as in, variety and roles means different gear sets which essentually means same old stuff: tank (soldier, nomad), healer (cleric), dps (zerk, condi) etc.), but rather just taking some specific tasks, positions, roles during the event itself (Marionette, Teq, Wurm, Aetherblade path in TA) and i believe that’s the path AN have choosen. So i don’t think zerker meta will go away.

As for “play how you want”. Sure you can do that. But it’s always gonna be subpar, always gonna be a sidekick, never gonna be a main thing. Yea you can experiment. For how long? A day? WP experimented with HP, came to conclusion that it sucks — end of story. Yea, you can do a bit of RPing, fullfillig the vision you had for your toon, i.e. guardian healer or whatever, but unless it’s a 40+ FotM nobody really needs your heals, so have fun, but know that you’re always gonna be a bit of a dead weight for your team, so stop complaining about others, because they’re doing exactly same thing you are -- playing how they want.

maha.7902:

Jana.6831:

RemiRome.8495:

Jana.6831:

I have never seen a video of someone soloing a dungeon without zerker gear*. Search for solo dungeon videos – they all need the damage.

Not true. You have never seen it because most folks don’t have their own private server hall for storage of footage.

So? Don’t just pick one sentence of what I wrote and make a statement on that. And if people doing dungeons in soldiers or whatever gear they really should bring some videos to prove “the meta” wrong. I mean that, btw. And yes, I think soloing a dungeon in soldier’s or whatever tanky gear requires more skill than doing it in zerkers.

Edit: And by that I don’t just mean one fragment of the dungeon but the whole thing.

If you stick on a condition build for two of the bosses in Arah path 2, you will actually get superior kill times to using a direct damage build.

I haven’t got a full run of it because that would involve actually playing the game and wasting my time resetting to get a clean recording, but I can imagine it’s perfectly possible to solo the entire path in decent time if you used conditions on everything.

If you think soloing a dungeon in soldier’s takes more skill, I don’t even know what to say. Does forcing yourself to stay awake longer = more skill? Like, it’ll either let you mess up more and make more mistakes, or you’ll have everything down perfectly and you’re just doing the same fight but for 3x as long and dodging everything perfectly.

Mymy, I seem to have started something with my personal opinion.
Alright: Not every condi gear is tanky, I spoke of soldier’s or other tanky gear, not condi gear. We can though, if you like.
I solo towers in wvw with my condi and with my zerker thief. I’m lagging pretty bad at the moment, so my CnD misses more often than it hits, so I can’t really tell whether or not it’s easier with my D/D zerker/valk power thief, or my P/D dire condi thief. The problem I have in both cases is that if I don’t kill fast enough the adds respawn and that my skills are on cooldown. I know that mobs don’t respawn in dungeons, but the skill cooldown stays the same – so the faster you kill stuff the less problems you have with cooldowns. Well, and with all three teams in wvw who all want that tower.

Harper.4173:

The “they couldn’t foresee” excuse people give the devs is probably one of the worst ones I’ve seen.

Past changes and current state say otherwise. You can’t argue with the past because it’s already happened. You can deny it all you want but it’s not changing anything.

And you act like I’m trying to defend someone. I say that to describe the current state of the game. Since the devs couldn’t use hindsight to make their content, I’m hoping they’re learning and the reason they’re taking so long to introduce permanent dungeon content is so they get something varied enough that the majority tactic used on most older content won’t be the best approach.

KSIBBQ.8123:

This game has such a unique build system….

This made me lol…

Dungeon Bingo!!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeons-Forum-Bingo/first

I highly advise the OP reads the following:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Carried-Players/first

KSIBBQ.8123:

This Zerker meta has to end. It has killed the diversity too long. This game has such a unique build system, and you should truly be able to play how you want. However, unless you have a pre made, then people will kick you. Start building your toon the way you want to!

Play some WvW then you can moan about balance. Balance in PvE is laughable. you can make any dumb as balls build and it’ll work aslong as you can apply your face to a keyboard, I’m not a PvP elitist as i played PvE for over a year before doing PvP so i know how easy PvE is.

[EDIT] Also you don’t have to be a zerker to look like one, they can’t check your gear. justl ie to them and have zerker appropriate utils and weapons, they won’t know any better.

The OP doesn’t seem to be complaining about balance at all. We all know you can complete the PvE in this game by training a hamster to faceroll 1111111..

It’s about the zerg meta and it’s subsequent side-effects.

We can tell if you’re pinging zerker gear and not using it – be warned we have ways of knowing if the DPS is lower than expected.

Don’t expect to be reinvited to parties if you try this and run nomads gear.

fireflyry.7023:

The OP doesn’t seem to be complaining about balance at all. We all know you can complete the PvE in this game by training a hamster to faceroll 1111111..

Which game are you refering to exactly?

Rhetorical questions make me itchy.

I would very much like to see you pull that off in a lvl 50 fractal.

spoj.9672:

I would very much like to see you pull that off in a lvl 50 fractal.

Or Arah, or other dungeons too, try 1111111 faceroll the spider in AC for example.

Or try 111111 faceroll the Mordrem bosses at Indigo, or or or

But of course people like to say the “1111 faceroll” argument and think it’s valid

People taking generalized and sweeping statements literally and out of the context they were intended makes me itchy too.

Have fun high fiving each other.

lol.

fireflyry.7023:

The OP doesn’t seem to be complaining about balance at all. We all know you can complete the PvE in this game by training a hamster to faceroll 1111111..

It’s about the zerg meta and it’s subsequent side-effects.

How is it out of context? I assume you were just trying to be a smart kitten . But its people like you that cause so many people to create pointless threads like these based on ignorance.

And I wasnt being sarcastic for once (rare for me). I did genuinely want to see someone suceed at fractal 50 by spamming 1.

Ehhh?

Read my post, what I was responding to and the tone of said post. Then you guys come in, take it literally and talk about “try spamming 1111 to get past a lvl 50 fractal or Arah!!!” like it’s serious business.

Seriously?

lolzypopz.

Context dude. Context.

maddoctor.2738:

try 1111111 faceroll the spider in AC for example.

Well…

Taku.6352:

http://youtu.be/5-zKXILTkQo

11111111 not even needed thanks to AA :P If you have an hour to kill, faceroll can be easy.

fireflyry.7023:

Ehhh?

Read my post, what I was responding to and the tone of said post. Then you guys come in, take it literally and talk about “try spamming 1111 to get past a lvl 50 fractal or Arah!!!” like it’s serious business.

Seriously?

lolzypopz.

Context dude. Context.

Hahaha I guess I failed at reading comprehension, my bad

Peace

Not really bud, I should have directly quoted and probably used the term “majority of PvE” or some such to make things clearer but it’s pretty quiet here this time of night (Pacific) so I tend to get lazy and just respond directly.

All good

You will have to forgive me. I kind of instinctively assume anyone who says “zerg meta” has no idea what they are talking about.

Jana.6831:

Taku.6352:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

“soloing a dungeon in soldiers takes more skill“ – Are you serious ?
Have you ever soloed a dungeon, have you ever compared berserker to soldiers !? I don’t know what you see as skilled but being able to facetank more hits isn’t skill for me.

Honestly, this one is a candidate for the statement of the year!

Do it and tell me if it is even possible to solo a dungeon in soldier’s.

You can solo in pretty much any gear as long as the bosses don’t have too high regeneration or you don’t fail your evades.

Others have already answered you, I have “discussed” this in several posts. Not really sure what there is left to say.

I have never seen a dungeon solo run in tanky gear and would love to see it – I don’t buy that those doing it have no options to make videos of it. If you know any videos give me the link.

Those who manage to solo a dungeon in none zerker’s gear have more skills in my opinion – I have pointed out why, others have pointed out why. So, again, give me a link so I can be proven wrong.

Not a whole dungeon but shows very well how tankier gear trivialises the content.

http://youtu.be/5-zKXILTkQo

Alright, but I still mean a whole dungeon, not just one part of it =) Thanks though.

Is like this video, just takes longer.
Do you think that dodging/evading takes less skill than simply dpsing ?
So giving up passive defense to do more dmg is less skilled ?
Also, do you think soloing in rabids (f.e.) takes also more skill than in berserker ?

Allow me a question; did you ever solo a dungeon?

I love how people just think that zerkers just autoattack in their solos. Get deeper in the materia and then we can continue discussing.

Leo G.4501:

Harper.4173:

The “they couldn’t foresee” excuse people give the devs is probably one of the worst ones I’ve seen.

Past changes and current state say otherwise. You can’t argue with the past because it’s already happened. You can deny it all you want but it’s not changing anything.

And you act like I’m trying to defend someone. I say that to describe the current state of the game. Since the devs couldn’t use hindsight to make their content, I’m hoping they’re learning and the reason they’re taking so long to introduce permanent dungeon content is so they get something varied enough that the majority tactic used on most older content won’t be the best approach.

If you’re waiting for more dungeons I understand – but doubt it’ll be a thing.

Regarding the foresight issue – you’re naive if you think they couldn’t do it. I explained things pretty well in my previous post.

Also – just because the tactic changes doesn’t mean we won’t have a strictly enforced meta that goes “adhere to this meta or get kicked”.

Which is funny since that’s what most of these non-meta anti-zerker people want – to get carried through content when they’re not even adapting to it. To be accepted into parties that don’t want them and to not get kicked.

These people thinking they can join a zerker group with nomad gear obviously never partied with me. You can assume crit chance by “on crit effect”, and health by steady attacks you know the numbers of, like belka auto attack. But hey, keep being toxic and joining groups not suiting your way, I’m waiting for the storm if I dare join an " all welcome" group" and kick everyone on sight. This meh-kitten has to end.

spoj.9672:

You will have to forgive me. I kind of instinctively assume anyone who says “zerg meta” has no idea what they are talking about.

All good.

It’s not an unjust assumption. I’d say the majority don’t, it’s pretty much a catch phrase now.

I’m with the OP on this though. I don’t play games like this to be dictated to…play this way, with this gear, blah, blah. Kitten that. My job and my mother do that. Takes me back to “ping build or kicked” in GW1. I’m not mad at the players though, don’t get me wrong, the games mechanics are purely at fault in conjunction with the need to repeat content as quickly as possible over, and over, and over again to garner reward.

There should be varied ways of doing the same content or garnering said rewards just as efficiently. This “Zerg meta” really is making certain aspects of the game stale, outside good friends and good guilds allowing for the freedom to play how one actually wants…as opposed to must.

Pugging should be an open and friendly place…in this game….lol.gl.

GrimmR.3541:

Jana.6831:

Taku.6352:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

“soloing a dungeon in soldiers takes more skill“ – Are you serious ?
Have you ever soloed a dungeon, have you ever compared berserker to soldiers !? I don’t know what you see as skilled but being able to facetank more hits isn’t skill for me.

Honestly, this one is a candidate for the statement of the year!

Do it and tell me if it is even possible to solo a dungeon in soldier’s.

You can solo in pretty much any gear as long as the bosses don’t have too high regeneration or you don’t fail your evades.

Others have already answered you, I have “discussed” this in several posts. Not really sure what there is left to say.

I have never seen a dungeon solo run in tanky gear and would love to see it – I don’t buy that those doing it have no options to make videos of it. If you know any videos give me the link.

Those who manage to solo a dungeon in none zerker’s gear have more skills in my opinion – I have pointed out why, others have pointed out why. So, again, give me a link so I can be proven wrong.

Not a whole dungeon but shows very well how tankier gear trivialises the content.

http://youtu.be/5-zKXILTkQo

Alright, but I still mean a whole dungeon, not just one part of it =) Thanks though.

Is like this video, just takes longer.
Do you think that dodging/evading takes less skill than simply dpsing ?
So giving up passive defense to do more dmg is less skilled ?
Also, do you think soloing in rabids (f.e.) takes also more skill than in berserker ?

Allow me a question; did you ever solo a dungeon?

I love how people just think that zerkers just autoattack in their solos. Get deeper in the materia and then we can continue discussing.

Have you ever soloed a dungeon or soloed a dungeon in soldiers?
You do’t seem to read what I write, here again: If you don’t dish out max damage you’ll likely get in troubles with your cooldown or with tiny mistakes or things you can’t avoid. So to me everybody who’s able to solo an entire dungeon in soldier’s is more skilled than someone who does that in zerker’s – just read the stuff I wrote, maybe you’ll get my poiint of view and where I’m coming from.
Btw: If soldier’s were easier there would be more soldier’s videos than zerkers and I always see zerker’s.

fireflyry.7023:

spoj.9672:

You will have to forgive me. I kind of instinctively assume anyone who says “zerg meta” has no idea what they are talking about.

All good.

It’s not an unjust assumption. I’d say the majority don’t, it’s pretty much a catch phrase now.

Really? That’s a bad mistake, who consider that a catch phrase? I would understand if zerk meta detractors would use that as a pejorative term, but that really don’t help their case, they just looks like they just spit what somebody else explain them.

juno.1840:

Exactly this. Teamwork is not blasting your buddy’s fire field – you can screw that up and maybe the fight takes 20 seconds longer. Teamwork is something that if you fail at, your entire party fails. GW2 does have much teamwork at all… only forces via the environment (i.e. two people stand on a pressure plate).

Ok and if the Guardian don’t use Aegis of Lupi’s kick when the party expect him to? Or if the Mesmer don’t use feedback at the right moment when you melee the Dredge boss in fractal?

Fortunately, these thing can make your party fail, but you can play these part in other way so they can be harmless. Do you really want to put all into a pug hand. Do you really want to make sure that if that pug fail, you fail automatically without any question? That’s what you said, if the teamwork fail, the entire party fails. I don’t wanna play in that kind of game. I want teamwork to improve our run, not someone that will make me fail if we don’t do it the right way. Right now you can do dungeon the way you want, with the party you want, with the strategy you want. You can have teamwork to make the dungeon faster and easier or play independently if you need or want too.

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

Jana.6831:

Taku.6352:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

“soloing a dungeon in soldiers takes more skill“ – Are you serious ?
Have you ever soloed a dungeon, have you ever compared berserker to soldiers !? I don’t know what you see as skilled but being able to facetank more hits isn’t skill for me.

Honestly, this one is a candidate for the statement of the year!

Do it and tell me if it is even possible to solo a dungeon in soldier’s.

You can solo in pretty much any gear as long as the bosses don’t have too high regeneration or you don’t fail your evades.

Others have already answered you, I have “discussed” this in several posts. Not really sure what there is left to say.

I have never seen a dungeon solo run in tanky gear and would love to see it – I don’t buy that those doing it have no options to make videos of it. If you know any videos give me the link.

Those who manage to solo a dungeon in none zerker’s gear have more skills in my opinion – I have pointed out why, others have pointed out why. So, again, give me a link so I can be proven wrong.

Not a whole dungeon but shows very well how tankier gear trivialises the content.

http://youtu.be/5-zKXILTkQo

Alright, but I still mean a whole dungeon, not just one part of it =) Thanks though.

Is like this video, just takes longer.
Do you think that dodging/evading takes less skill than simply dpsing ?
So giving up passive defense to do more dmg is less skilled ?
Also, do you think soloing in rabids (f.e.) takes also more skill than in berserker ?

Allow me a question; did you ever solo a dungeon?

I love how people just think that zerkers just autoattack in their solos. Get deeper in the materia and then we can continue discussing.

Have you ever soloed a dungeon or soloed a dungeon in soldiers?
You do’t seem to read what I write, here again: If you don’t dish out max damage you’ll likely get in troubles with your cooldown or with tiny mistakes or things you can’t avoid. So to me everybody who’s able to solo an entire dungeon in soldier’s is more skilled than someone who does that in zerker’s – just read the stuff I wrote, maybe you’ll get my poiint of view and where I’m coming from.
Btw: If soldier’s were easier there would be more soldier’s videos than zerkers and I always see zerker’s.

Thats simply not true. Think about why people record videos of them playing. And then look at your last comment again.

People solo in berserkers because they have already learnt to solo. Most people learn to solo after they already accept the meta. Noone is going to solo a dungeon with gear that takes twice as long when they can do it in berserker. And people who record solos tend to only upload the runs they are proud of. So obviously they arent going to upload their first solo where they tried various things and wiped several times. With that in mind its fairly obvious why most videos demonstrate smooth runs with the most efficient builds and gear for solos.

Like I said before. Defensive gear is easier. But the endurance of maintaining your active defence is the hardest part of learning to solo. Once you have that down the gear makes no difference other than kill time. But if you arent consistant then defensive gear is obviously going to be easier. Cool downs dont come into play at all. Most bosses cannot be solo’d that fast even in berserker gear. So repeatable management of active defence is important no matter what gear you use.

I would solo a dungeon in Soldiers just to demonstrate it for you, but…

1. I don’t own a set of soldiers gear and
2. My time is more valuable than taking two hours to solo an arah path to prove a point that anyone who can think logically wouldn’t need visual proof of.

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

Jana.6831:

Taku.6352:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

“soloing a dungeon in soldiers takes more skill“ – Are you serious ?
Have you ever soloed a dungeon, have you ever compared berserker to soldiers !? I don’t know what you see as skilled but being able to facetank more hits isn’t skill for me.

Honestly, this one is a candidate for the statement of the year!

Do it and tell me if it is even possible to solo a dungeon in soldier’s.

You can solo in pretty much any gear as long as the bosses don’t have too high regeneration or you don’t fail your evades.

Others have already answered you, I have “discussed” this in several posts. Not really sure what there is left to say.

I have never seen a dungeon solo run in tanky gear and would love to see it – I don’t buy that those doing it have no options to make videos of it. If you know any videos give me the link.

Those who manage to solo a dungeon in none zerker’s gear have more skills in my opinion – I have pointed out why, others have pointed out why. So, again, give me a link so I can be proven wrong.

Not a whole dungeon but shows very well how tankier gear trivialises the content.

http://youtu.be/5-zKXILTkQo

Alright, but I still mean a whole dungeon, not just one part of it =) Thanks though.

Is like this video, just takes longer.
Do you think that dodging/evading takes less skill than simply dpsing ?
So giving up passive defense to do more dmg is less skilled ?
Also, do you think soloing in rabids (f.e.) takes also more skill than in berserker ?

Allow me a question; did you ever solo a dungeon?

I love how people just think that zerkers just autoattack in their solos. Get deeper in the materia and then we can continue discussing.

Have you ever soloed a dungeon or soloed a dungeon in soldiers?

Just for funsies, I’ll share.

I carry PVT on my guard as a backup set, and used to wear it when I first started soloing, mostly Arah p2, but also TA forward.

Now, I can’t get past Lupi on my own regardless of gear, but Belka and Abom were not at all challenging in soldier’s gear (note, I didn’t glitch Belka in those days, either).

Abomination was actually pretty funny. The first time I soloed him (in PVT), I farmed maybe 20-30 rifles before starting, and actually ran out and had to start pulling inquest mid-solo to finish him. It took about 35 minutes.

35. Minutes.

For one boss.

It wasn’t any harder, I was actually playing sloppy as hell and getting hit a lot. I could eat a couple of attacks, get back up, and continue. Most of my failures were from pulling him too far and resetting.

Now, I always use zerker gear. Why? Because abom takes about 8-10 minutes on a sloppy run.

PVT isn’t harder, it’s just slower. My opinion — YMMV.

The argument about running out of defenses before the enemy dies works for mobs, but most (Arah) bosses require you to go through several rotations, even at max DPS. Gear won’t affect cooldowns, so you’ll run out of defenses at some point either way. The difference is that PVT is (a) slower and (b) more forgiving if you play sloppy.

maha.7902:

Exactly this. Teamwork is not blasting your buddy’s fire field – you can screw that up and maybe the fight takes 20 seconds longer. Teamwork is something that if you fail at, your entire party fails. GW2 does have much teamwork at all… only forces via the environment (i.e. two people stand on a pressure plate).

Actually it is teamwork, you’re working together to create a result not possible with one person (extra might blasts).

What you’re asking for is forced reliance on one another, or in other words, a trinity. GW2 is not that game.

Why are you playing?

I’m not playing (anymore) – doesn’t mean I’m happy about it. I had such high expectations.

Thaddeus.4891:

fireflyry.7023:

spoj.9672:

You will have to forgive me. I kind of instinctively assume anyone who says “zerg meta” has no idea what they are talking about.

All good.

It’s not an unjust assumption. I’d say the majority don’t, it’s pretty much a catch phrase now.

Really? That’s a bad mistake, who consider that a catch phrase? I would understand if zerk meta detractors would use that as a pejorative term, but that really don’t help their case, they just looks like they just spit what somebody else explain them.

I can’t really understand that but yes…it’s a catch phrase.

Play the game.

dlonie.6547:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

Jana.6831:

Taku.6352:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

“soloing a dungeon in soldiers takes more skill“ – Are you serious ?
Have you ever soloed a dungeon, have you ever compared berserker to soldiers !? I don’t know what you see as skilled but being able to facetank more hits isn’t skill for me.

Honestly, this one is a candidate for the statement of the year!

Do it and tell me if it is even possible to solo a dungeon in soldier’s.

You can solo in pretty much any gear as long as the bosses don’t have too high regeneration or you don’t fail your evades.

Others have already answered you, I have “discussed” this in several posts. Not really sure what there is left to say.

I have never seen a dungeon solo run in tanky gear and would love to see it – I don’t buy that those doing it have no options to make videos of it. If you know any videos give me the link.

Those who manage to solo a dungeon in none zerker’s gear have more skills in my opinion – I have pointed out why, others have pointed out why. So, again, give me a link so I can be proven wrong.

Not a whole dungeon but shows very well how tankier gear trivialises the content.

http://youtu.be/5-zKXILTkQo

Alright, but I still mean a whole dungeon, not just one part of it =) Thanks though.

Is like this video, just takes longer.
Do you think that dodging/evading takes less skill than simply dpsing ?
So giving up passive defense to do more dmg is less skilled ?
Also, do you think soloing in rabids (f.e.) takes also more skill than in berserker ?

Allow me a question; did you ever solo a dungeon?

I love how people just think that zerkers just autoattack in their solos. Get deeper in the materia and then we can continue discussing.

Have you ever soloed a dungeon or soloed a dungeon in soldiers?

Just for funsies, I’ll share.

I carry PVT on my guard as a backup set, and used to wear it when I first started soloing, mostly Arah p2, but also TA forward.

Now, I can’t get past Lupi on my own regardless of gear, but Belka and Abom were not at all challenging in soldier’s gear (note, I didn’t glitch Belka in those days, either).

Abomination was actually pretty funny. The first time I soloed him (in PVT), I farmed maybe 20-30 rifles before starting, and actually ran out and had to start pulling inquest mid-solo to finish him. It took about 35 minutes.

35. Minutes.

For one boss.

It wasn’t any harder, I was actually playing sloppy as hell and getting hit a lot. I could eat a couple of attacks, get back up, and continue. Most of my failures were from pulling him too far and resetting.

Now, I always use zerker gear. Why? Because abom takes about 8-10 minutes on a sloppy run.

PVT isn’t harder, it’s just slower. My opinion — YMMV.

The argument about running out of defenses before the enemy dies works for mobs, but most (Arah) bosses require you to go through several rotations, even at max DPS. Gear won’t affect cooldowns, so you’ll run out of defenses at some point either way. The difference is that PVT is (a) slower and (b) more forgiving if you play sloppy.

Exactly, slower and more forgiving.
I don’t get why you say it takes more skill then!

I think players should stop complaining about ‘run this’ or ‘that’ builds.
Get with the programme – accept it, try it embrace it for a bit.
Once you’ve seen if it works or doesn’t work for you then you’re in a better position to comment on the meta (as by then you actually understand why it is there).
Once you understand the meta and team composition fully you’re in a better position to tweak and optimise a teams build (Just like a music conductor in an orchestra)

Games will always have a meta:
Racing games will always have a found optimal car setup (meta) – brake balance, gear ratio, tyres, suspension etc for a given track/car
MMOs always will have an optimal team makeup for a specific location (meta).
Solo players will have a meta for MMOs – which is different than a team meta.

The meta is constantly changing depending on updates, mechanics and new strategies (usually by those who already understand the meta and how each profession truly works ).

One of the design principles of this game is that zerker would always be the most rewarding for skilled players (speed and efficiency) but mean you have a higher likelihood of dying if you really don’t play as a team with active defenses/cc skills.

This game is a different type of MMO without the ‘tank’,‘healer’ and ‘DPS’ segregated roles. If you want that game – go somewhere else.

GW1 had specific meta bars for running certain content (FOW, UW, DOA)- as we completed runs in (7mins before dhumm dhumm- both FoW/UW; 30 min DOAs). Non-meta groups often took 1-4hrs to complete the same content.

Time is the most expensive commodity – it cannot be bought or replaced.
Once people understand the basic mechanics – hone those skills and become good at playing in a shorter timeframe.

Learn the meta, understand why it works (before moaning without justification- as your not getting accepted to those “good reliably fast groups”).

TPMN.1483:

MMOs always will have an optimal team makeup for a specific location (meta).

That’s fine.

What your missing is other games have alternate options. The “meta” in this regard is varied and caters to different play-styles and/or gearing often just as efficient, if not more so, than the common generic cookie-cutter.

In this game the (meta) is purely zerg for the majority. Yes you can run the same content naked with a rusty spoon but good luck getting into a team and god forbid if you take 2 minutes longer than the last run.This seems to be the OP’s point, Zerg or your gimping the team.

This negates any semblance of player freedom or choice…in an MMORPG.

Harper.4173:

I wonder if the people above going against the “meta” realize what meta means, what it is and why diversity is not and can never be a thing.

No, they don’t. If Berzerker gear is somehow made less favorable, something else will take its place.

Regarding the OP, you say you have friends but you say people kick you for not having the right gear. Do your friends kick you? Can’t you play with your friends and you all can use the gear you prefer?

PSA:

No one take this personal, I’ve just seen these mixed enough times it’s worth pointing out:

zerk: Short for Berserker’s gear stats (Power > Precision = Ferocity).

zerg: A clusterkitten of 100 players mindlessly spamming abilities and autoloot.

When I hear “zerg meta”, I think of the problems with open world boss events. The “zerk meta” is the dominance of Berserker’s gear in PvE.

I think this has been causing some confusion.

The OP isn’t complaining about zerging being the meta – it’s " zerker".

The design principle of the game was always ‘zerker’ would be the most efficient and best stats- this was stated at release (2 yrs ago).

The alternatives are non-meta and usually are not as efficient.
Don’t like it /- go form a non-meta team of your own with no requiremnts.

3hr ARAh P3 (non-meta) runs vs 25mins (meta pugs) vs 12 mins (high end guild runs)- I know which I prefer.
~7min SE P1 (good pugs) vs 20 min SE P1 (bad non-meta) vs 3 mins (record runs)

I think – you get my point.
It’s not about saving 2-3 mins or getting kicked.
It’s about saving a lot of time