Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

Oh look, another person who adds 2 plus 2 together and gets 87. It doesn’t work that way.

It worked that way when you called me jaded. If my criticisms of this game makes me jaded, then your defense of the game makes you enthralled. 2 plus 2 doesn’t equal 87, but 2 does equal 2. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. That’s how it works.

OP, your lists about expansion and LS are quite accurate, thank you for making it easier for me tpo decide which one I like more.

I choose the first option. (All the things you mentioned can be downloaded in less then two weeks, it would be absurd if new race would take up that much memory so it is plausible to give any of those features along with LS chapter)

I’m one of those that was looking forward to an expansion pack.
But 2 years later, i’ve already given up hope for it. Living Story is the way to go now.

lol at the idea of Chronomancer. You want a Chronomancer? Try this.
Log out of the game, stop playing for 1 year, then log in again.
BOOM! you’re in the future! Not sure how you’re gonna go back to the past though lol.

BlueZone.4236:

FYI, 2 + 2 = 4.
Next, you’ll tell me you don’t farm! Ha, ha.

Is that a joke? I’ve seen all too often the argument that nothing can be done in the game without farming.

Boneheart.3561:

BlueZone.4236:

FYI, 2 + 2 = 4.
Next, you’ll tell me you don’t farm! Ha, ha.

Is that a joke? I’ve seen all too often the argument that nothing can be done in the game without farming.

Not joking, but nothing to do with what can or can’t be done.
Just that he adamantly denies farming when called out, but has also described many of his farming habits countless times.
Which is just like farming, but not called farming. Just farming without the word farming.

Derigar.7810:

Honestly, how many of you would’ve rather seen an expansion pack?

Living story gives us:
- Free updates
- Every 2 or so weeks
- Small amount of content

An expansion pack gives us
- Paid update
- All updates in one big batch
- Massive amount of content

Now, I don’t want to sound like an ungrateful person, but I’d rather have paid for an expansion pack. Why? Because I would have loved to see a new profession, race, a lot of new lands and more! Me and friends have been speculating the Chronomancer ever since before release. We were all very sad when it didn’t come as we were wanting to make a video series about “Back to the Future”. Alas…

so i have to choose beetwen content update every 2 weeks, and be done with it in 2 days, or content update once a year , or half a year and be done with it in 2 weeks….

i have played AION / GW1 before GW2 and that two games were exatly like you want , one update/expansion once a year / half year

and it was always the same , it took me a few weeks and i saw everything new, only left to farm the new best weapon/armor ( in aion) or the new titel in gw1, and when you got that..well then i took a break from the game and played something different and wayting for another update in half year

thats why i like the 2 weeks update more , i have something to look forward to , something that comes next week , not next year … most of the time i finish all achivments of an update by friday, if its not group orientetd like that kittening marionete…and after that i go to my daily routine of playing dungeons and wvw and waiting for the next update

and that is the reason why till now i didnt take a break of gw2, because i never got the feeling i dont move forward, i dont have to do always the same things for months like in gw1 or aion IF gw2 would stop update every two weeks , i would lose interest in it after some months and start playing a second MMO

tl: dr: i prefer the two weeks update over the once a year/half a year because i lose interesst in something if i have to wait to long

Dusty Moon.4382:

I really disliked mapping in GW1 as part of the map was Glitching, in order to 100% of all maps. I never finished it because it was not fun to me and utterly boring. I am not saying GW2 is any easier or better but, certainly you don’t have to scrape every corner, etc. That I don’t miss at all.

I never glitched to Grandmaster Cartographer. I did, however, have to do stupid JPG manipulations to try to find stuff which I hadn’t uncovered for the last 1.9% . . .

BlueZone.4236:

Yeah, I like my content the same way I like my meals. Served on a plate rather than drip fed.

I dunno, I really liked going to hibachi grills for a long time, where you got served one course at a time. Salad and soup, then rice, then one piece of grilled stuff at a time. I also really like when I go out to eat, and they don’t bring my appetizers and my entree and my dessert all at once.

Sorry, I care more about the quality and pacing of my meal . . . and my gaming . . . than whether I get it all now.

(Don’t take that to mean I think GW2 does either 100% right, by the way. So far the best prize for quality and pacing all still fall to still single-player games.)

i dun want an expansion.
i want free content via living story.
i speak for myself.

but i think there could be a lot of others that feel the same.

BlueZone.4236:

Boneheart.3561:

BlueZone.4236:

FYI, 2 + 2 = 4.
Next, you’ll tell me you don’t farm! Ha, ha.

Is that a joke? I’ve seen all too often the argument that nothing can be done in the game without farming.

Not joking, but nothing to do with what can or can’t be done.
Just that he adamantly denies farming when called out, but has also described many of his farming habits countless times.
Which is just like farming, but not called farming. Just farming without the word farming.

Playing isn’t farming. I don’t like to do the same thing over and over again for any length of time. So I do a bit of this and a bit of that. If you think that running a few events and then getting bored and going and doing something else is farming,. have it it.

Trying to discredit people by linking random threads together out of context only works for people who have their mind made up already. No one else will buy into that.

darkace.8925:

Vayne.8563:

Oh look, another person who adds 2 plus 2 together and gets 87. It doesn’t work that way.

It worked that way when you called me jaded. If my criticisms of this game makes me jaded, then your defense of the game makes you enthralled. 2 plus 2 doesn’t equal 87, but 2 does equal 2. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. That’s how it works.

How it works is we’re getting a stream of stuff done to the game. Projects big and small. I choose to acknowledge that, you choose to ignore it. I said wait and see, so let’s wait and see.

Boneheart.3561:

BlueZone.4236:

FYI, 2 + 2 = 4.
Next, you’ll tell me you don’t farm! Ha, ha.

Is that a joke? I’ve seen all too often the argument that nothing can be done in the game without farming.

Farming is a very specific activity. I gather everything while running around doing other stuff. Gathering that stuff might be considering farming, but I almost never go out to gather anything.

I don’t tend to farm dungeons. I run them when guildies need an extra guy usually. Eventually, over time, I’ll get whatever tokens I need, without needlessly going out of my way to do any specific dungeon. Is that farming?

I’ll do a few things at the end of the day see what dailies I’m missing and do them if they’re quite easy…is that farming?

Mostly I do whatever anyone else in the guild happens to need help or want company on. Is that farming?

Eventually I get enough gold, karma, mats or whatever to buy something.

I don’t consider any of that farming.

There were times I tried to farm, like back in the south sun event when everyone was trying to farm sharks for armored scales. I did pretty well for the 15 minutes I farmed. Then I got bored and went and did other stuff.

I’ve never hit DR, because I can’t keep doing the same thing over and over. I have to switch it up all the time.

darkace.8925:

lordkrall.7241:

I personally prefer to get new stuff every two weeks that lasts a few hours instead of waiting 6-12 months to get content that lasts a week or two.

The amount of content is probably more or less the same. It is simply difference in how and when it is delivered. Some people prefer to have it bunched up, others prefer to have it dropped during a longer period of time. Simple as that.

It’s not as simple as that. Even if the quantify of content is the same either way, the quality isn’t. The were a lot – and I do mean a LOT – of serious bug in the first season of the Living Story that slipped past an overtaxed QA department. Then there’s things like our Player Characters going voiceless because the the two week release schedule couldn’t accommodate ten different voice actors. A two week release schedule just doesn’t afford the developers the time to ensure the level of polish is where it otherwise could be.

Exactly. LS content is rushed, unpolished, launched “eh, good enough”. Gaping plothole (Scarlet) explanations have to shoehorned into new chapters to explain old ones. Issues are left unresolved because the content will be largely abandoned in 2 weeks.

months and months of getting complementary chips and salsa waiting for a main course that isn’t gonna happen because the chef is too busy making chips and salsa, rearranging the seating, and doing a social media campaign. (About Chips and Salsa)

Vayne.8563:

Boneheart.3561:

BlueZone.4236:

FYI, 2 + 2 = 4.
Next, you’ll tell me you don’t farm! Ha, ha.

Is that a joke? I’ve seen all too often the argument that nothing can be done in the game without farming.

Farming is a very specific activity. I gather everything while running around doing other stuff. Gathering that stuff might be considering farming, but I almost never go out to gather anything.

I don’t tend to farm dungeons. I run them when guildies need an extra guy usually. Eventually, over time, I’ll get whatever tokens I need, without needlessly going out of my way to do any specific dungeon. Is that farming?

I’ll do a few things at the end of the day see what dailies I’m missing and do them if they’re quite easy…is that farming?

Mostly I do whatever anyone else in the guild happens to need help or want company on. Is that farming?

Eventually I get enough gold, karma, mats or whatever to buy something.

I don’t consider any of that farming.

There were times I tried to farm, like back in the south sun event when everyone was trying to farm sharks for armored scales. I did pretty well for the 15 minutes I farmed. Then I got bored and went and did other stuff.

I’ve never hit DR, because I can’t keep doing the same thing over and over. I have to switch it up all the time.

We seem to play alike, except I’m not in a highly social guild :‘(
If you’re the same Vayne from [Choo], it’s so weird agreeing with almost all of the stuff you type. I vaguely remember not liking you.

Boneheart.3561:

Vayne.8563:

Boneheart.3561:

BlueZone.4236:

FYI, 2 + 2 = 4.
Next, you’ll tell me you don’t farm! Ha, ha.

Is that a joke? I’ve seen all too often the argument that nothing can be done in the game without farming.

Farming is a very specific activity. I gather everything while running around doing other stuff. Gathering that stuff might be considering farming, but I almost never go out to gather anything.

I don’t tend to farm dungeons. I run them when guildies need an extra guy usually. Eventually, over time, I’ll get whatever tokens I need, without needlessly going out of my way to do any specific dungeon. Is that farming?

I’ll do a few things at the end of the day see what dailies I’m missing and do them if they’re quite easy…is that farming?

Mostly I do whatever anyone else in the guild happens to need help or want company on. Is that farming?

Eventually I get enough gold, karma, mats or whatever to buy something.

I don’t consider any of that farming.

There were times I tried to farm, like back in the south sun event when everyone was trying to farm sharks for armored scales. I did pretty well for the 15 minutes I farmed. Then I got bored and went and did other stuff.

I’ve never hit DR, because I can’t keep doing the same thing over and over. I have to switch it up all the time.

We seem to play alike, except I’m not in a highly social guild :‘(
If you’re the same Vayne from [Choo], it’s so weird agreeing with almost all of the stuff you type. I vaguely remember not liking you.

I’m a different Vayne…hit me up in game sometimes so we can run around doing nothing together. lol

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

i dun want an expansion.
i want free content via living story.
i speak for myself.

but i think there could be a lot of others that feel the same.

You know, it’s kind of dawned on me that I don’t have much of a preference in regards to the “delivery” of the content.

I love expansion packs. For the most part, they’ve always expanded on my gameplay and I always considered it the best way to deliver more content. On the other hand, I loved the Fallout DLC’s and didn’t feel that the way the content was deilivered diminished their quality in the least. Opened my mind at the time, big time.

So either or is fine. As long as the content is good, I’d likely enjoy both paths equally.

My issue has everything to do with how it all gets funded. I wouldn’t like a “free to play” expansion any more than their current method of content delivery. Not to question the quality of the content itself, I just don’t like the “F2P” model, period.

I don’t want an expansion. I believe that ANet can bring anything you would put into an expansion via the Living Story. There is no reason why they couldn’t, other than expansions bringing in teh coinz.

Expansions also go against one of the things I absolutely love about Guild Wars 2. The fact that you can play it whenever you want. If they start releasing expansions, you’ll quickly run into a situation where someone who would otherwise play the game will not because they would now need to buy an expansion pack.

There is also absolutely nothing preventing ANet from taking all the content of an expansion pack and releasing it bit by bit via Living Story over 6-12 months. Because that’s how often you could expect an expansion.

Looking at the list the OP made, I think I see what he’s trying to say. His argument seems to be that since you don’t have to pay for Living Story, ANet has no motivation to make it any good. He also believes that an expansion would automatically have more content than all of the Living Story they could release in the time it takes to develop and release an expansion pack.

However, the OP is forgetting one thing: What if the content of the expansion is not vast enough to keep you playing until the next expansion hits? What if the content will only keep the people who do every Living Story playing for a month? Having a month’s worth of content every 6-12 months is much worse than having a few days’ worth of play every 2 weeks.

My issue has everything to do with how it all gets funded. I wouldn’t like a “free to play” expansion any more than their current method of content delivery. Not to question the quality of the content itself, I just don’t like the “F2P” model, period.

GW2 is far from “F2P”. An F2P game is one that has every motivation to add a set of gear that you can only buy from the shop at a price that would take months of dedicated play to afford. That or a credit card. And that is something that literally kills games. It murders them, defiles every orifice in their corpse, takes said corpse and turns it into a steak to sell to the rich guys.

In comparison, I will admit that GW2 is putting a lot more skins into the Gem Store than they are releasing to be gotten via playing the game. They have released plenty of such skins, just that they’re kind of hard to get. However, the skins will never make the game unplayable for someone who’s not willing to buy them from the Gem Store. And that’s a big kittening deal.

Vayne.8563:

Boneheart.3561:

BlueZone.4236:

FYI, 2 + 2 = 4.
Next, you’ll tell me you don’t farm! Ha, ha.

Is that a joke? I’ve seen all too often the argument that nothing can be done in the game without farming.

Farming is a very specific activity. I gather everything while running around doing other stuff. Gathering that stuff might be considering farming, but I almost never go out to gather anything.

I don’t tend to farm dungeons. I run them when guildies need an extra guy usually. Eventually, over time, I’ll get whatever tokens I need, without needlessly going out of my way to do any specific dungeon. Is that farming?

I’ll do a few things at the end of the day see what dailies I’m missing and do them if they’re quite easy…is that farming?

Mostly I do whatever anyone else in the guild happens to need help or want company on. Is that farming?

Eventually I get enough gold, karma, mats or whatever to buy something.

I don’t consider any of that farming.

There were times I tried to farm, like back in the south sun event when everyone was trying to farm sharks for armored scales. I did pretty well for the 15 minutes I farmed. Then I got bored and went and did other stuff.

I’ve never hit DR, because I can’t keep doing the same thing over and over. I have to switch it up all the time.

Yeah…I’ve already heard about all the farming tricks. Avoiding DR, guesting, guesting with alts, join the world boss train, the karma train, etc etc.
That’s exactly how you farm in this game. I’m sure some of the things I’ve listed have now been “fixed”, I dunno which ones.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

months and months of getting complementary chips and salsa waiting for a main course that isn’t gonna happen because the chef is too busy making chips and salsa, rearranging the seating, and doing a social media campaign. (About Chips and Salsa)

I’m afraid I’ve got some bad news for you. You were served the main course…split up into tiny pieces. That’s the reality.

- I don’t want to pay for new content
- I don’t want to waste a day updating for the new content
- I want to see fresh and interesting small updates every week, not a confusing glob of content thrown at my face.

Olba.5376:

Expansions also go against one of the things I absolutely love about Guild Wars 2. The fact that you can play it whenever you want. If they start releasing expansions, you’ll quickly run into a situation where someone who would otherwise play the game will not because they would now need to buy an expansion pack.

I don’t see why that’s a problem, because I’m not sure why one should feel privileged enough to access something they didn’t pay for. You already have to pay $50 to play the game, but your argument here could be used to support the game going entirely free-to-play.

That’s not something I’d want. Not because I don’t want “f2p scum/noobs” in my game, I just think the $50 is well worth it. I may have issues with their continued payment model, delivery of content, etc. but the experience of playing it for the initial period deserves that pricetag.

Maybe that’s one of the larger concerns with providing additional “buy to play” content: The playerbase may be too accustomed to the “free” content.

GW2 is far from “F2P”. An F2P game is one that has every motivation to add a set of gear that you can only buy from the shop at a price that would take months of dedicated play to afford. That or a credit card. And that is something that literally kills games. It murders them, defiles every orifice in their corpse, takes said corpse and turns it into a steak to sell to the rich guys.

A F2P game is just that: A game that is free-to-play. While GW2 is a bit weird in being a buy-to-play game that essentially turns into a F2P game, it’s continued support is afterwards mostly F2P, and in a similar vein as those other F2P games you dread: Some rewards are affected by money and RNG, reward progression is ‘drawn-out’ by design, and throwing actual cash at the game can progress you towards better stats.

Of course, that’s all lacking a bit of context: The ‘gap’ in meaningful stats isn’t that big. The funny part is, even if it was, the game’s zerg-based, open-world emphasis would negate it (maybe that thought could warrant it’s own thread…)

Regardless, my point here is that while there’s far less ‘urgency’ in the loot hunt in GW2, I can’t imagine much longevity or player activity without it. And if every reward was easy and cheap to get, I don’t see why anyone would want to buy gems with cash (unless the exchange rate was nuts, maybe?)

In summation, I think of GW2 as a F2P game, it may not be as “bad” as other F2P games, and I still don’t like it as a F2P game.

Palador.2170:

I’m skipping most of the thread, so I can give my answer without getting sidetracked by something else. Apologies if someone beat me to this.

I would rather have an expansion. Why? Quality. Let me compare Dry Top and Queensdale (to use a zone I think most players know fairly well) to explain what I mean:

Dry Top is a good area. Maybe even awesome. But it’s small. Why? Most of us seem to agree that it’s only part of the zone, and we’ll be getting the rest of it in installments as the story goes on. I’m going to take a guess and say it will be 6 installments, separated out over the course of LS2. Sounds good, right? New zone in the LS, we just get it in parts.

But that’s the problem, it’s in parts. This requires designing a zone that is broken up into smaller parts. Nothing in Part A can require Part B because Part B won’t be out yet when Part A goes live. And the zone can’t be wide open, there have to be pinch points where progress can be cut off to keep us from getting further into the zone than we’re supposed to at any point.

Now, look at Queensdale. There’s a zone that has a few pinch points, but only small areas (bandit caves) can be cut off from access. Mostly, it’s a fairly open zone with plenty of freedom as to where you go. Picture what they would have to do if they wanted to break it into 6 installment parts. It’s not pretty, and it pretty much wrecks the whole feel of the zone, right?

This is the real problem with the LS versus an expansion, the need to break things down into smaller updates. The need to make things fit into a smaller updates instead of releasing it all at once is a limitation on what they can pull off, and I’m sure it applies to more than just zones. LS2 Ep1’s plot had a very clear break in the plot, for example, to allow for people to stop at that point. It seems like a good stopping point at first, until you realize our characters would (most likely) NOT just stop there for a while. Again, it’s a break they’ve been forced to build into things to accommodate the LS style of updates.

This is the main reason why I think an expansion would be better.

You provide your own answer but totally ignore it. Yes dry top is a small map compared with Queensdale but its most likely a small part of the real zone too. If they were to release a full zone every 2 weeks they’d need to develop 26 zones per year on top of the living story instances. Thats way too much so they did like you said, they broke the map down releasing a new part every 2 weeks. if they break every zone into 4 prieces will get 6 new zones which are more manageable in a year time frame and they will not have to compromise on quality either. Dry top maybe small but we know its going to get bigger.

Smith.1826:

I don’t see why that’s a problem, because I’m not sure why one should feel privileged enough to access something they didn’t pay for. You already have to pay $50 to play the game, but your argument here could be used to support the game going entirely free-to-play.

That’s not something I’d want. Not because I don’t want “f2p scum/noobs” in my game, I just think the $50 is well worth it. I may have issues with their continued payment model, delivery of content, etc. but the experience of playing it for the initial period deserves that pricetag.

Maybe that’s one of the larger concerns with providing additional “buy to play” content: The playerbase may be too accustomed to the “free” content.

So I paid the box price and I should be willing to give up my access to the game unless I’m willing to fork over more? You do realize that this is one of the reasons the people who do not play subscription-based games are the way they are?

What if I am perfectly happy with the game even without an expansion? Should I be willing to give up a game I like unless I pay for something I never asked for in the first place?

But you are right. The playerbase is accustomed to free content. What this means is that the bar that an expansion has to clear to be called a good expansion is set pretty kitten high. They can’t just put in new races or skills or even maps into it and expect everyone to happily fork over the cash, since they could have delivered all of that through Living Story for free. And that is exactly what Colin has been saying about the Living Story: That their goal is to deliver expansion-like content with it. If they ever truly succeed in that, then any hope for an expansion pack is basically dead forever.

A F2P game is just that: A game that is free-to-play. While GW2 is a bit weird in being a buy-to-play game that essentially turns into a F2P game, it’s continued support is afterwards mostly F2P, and in a similar vein as those other F2P games you dread: Some rewards are affected by money and RNG, reward progression is ‘drawn-out’ by design, and throwing actual cash at the game can progress you towards better stats.

Of course, that’s all lacking a bit of context: The ‘gap’ in meaningful stats isn’t that big. The funny part is, even if it was, the game’s zerg-based, open-world emphasis would negate it (maybe that thought could warrant it’s own thread…)

Regardless, my point here is that while there’s far less ‘urgency’ in the loot hunt in GW2, I can’t imagine much longevity or player activity without it. And if every reward was easy and cheap to get, I don’t see why anyone would want to buy gems with cash (unless the exchange rate was nuts, maybe?)

In summation, I think of GW2 as a F2P game, it may not be as “bad” as other F2P games, and I still don’t like it as a F2P game.

Well my perspective is a bit different. I think that the long term for Guild Wars 2 is in the PvP scene. That being WvW and sPvP. I just don’t see how they could make a lengthy sustainable PvE that would keep everyone satisfied for years without risking a lot. They can’t put in a gear grind and putting in a cosmetic grind runs the risk of lowering their Gem Store profits significantly. That isn’t an issue in PvP, where your primary goal is to improve your proficiency at playing the game.

Heck, coming from one of those horrible f2p games myself, I truly and honestly hope that PvP does become a major thing in GW2. Because I absolutely love how fair it is. There is no gap between someone who spends 300$ every month on Gems and someone who spends none.

I’d much rather get new skills/traits every second week than Living Story.
At least it would make WvW/sPvP more interesting.

Nick.6972:

I’d much rather get new skills/traits every second week than Living Story.
At least it would make WvW/sPvP more interesting.

It would also make WvW/sPvP 100% impossible to even got close to balanced.

Galen Grey.4709:

Palador.2170:

I’m skipping most of the thread, so I can give my answer without getting sidetracked by something else. Apologies if someone beat me to this.

I would rather have an expansion. Why? Quality. Let me compare Dry Top and Queensdale (to use a zone I think most players know fairly well) to explain what I mean:

Dry Top is a good area. Maybe even awesome. But it’s small. Why? Most of us seem to agree that it’s only part of the zone, and we’ll be getting the rest of it in installments as the story goes on. I’m going to take a guess and say it will be 6 installments, separated out over the course of LS2. Sounds good, right? New zone in the LS, we just get it in parts.

But that’s the problem, it’s in parts. This requires designing a zone that is broken up into smaller parts. Nothing in Part A can require Part B because Part B won’t be out yet when Part A goes live. And the zone can’t be wide open, there have to be pinch points where progress can be cut off to keep us from getting further into the zone than we’re supposed to at any point.

Now, look at Queensdale. There’s a zone that has a few pinch points, but only small areas (bandit caves) can be cut off from access. Mostly, it’s a fairly open zone with plenty of freedom as to where you go. Picture what they would have to do if they wanted to break it into 6 installment parts. It’s not pretty, and it pretty much wrecks the whole feel of the zone, right?

This is the real problem with the LS versus an expansion, the need to break things down into smaller updates. The need to make things fit into a smaller updates instead of releasing it all at once is a limitation on what they can pull off, and I’m sure it applies to more than just zones. LS2 Ep1’s plot had a very clear break in the plot, for example, to allow for people to stop at that point. It seems like a good stopping point at first, until you realize our characters would (most likely) NOT just stop there for a while. Again, it’s a break they’ve been forced to build into things to accommodate the LS style of updates.

This is the main reason why I think an expansion would be better.

You provide your own answer but totally ignore it. Yes dry top is a small map compared with Queensdale but its most likely a small part of the real zone too. If they were to release a full zone every 2 weeks they’d need to develop 26 zones per year on top of the living story instances. Thats way too much so they did like you said, they broke the map down releasing a new part every 2 weeks. if they break every zone into 4 prieces will get 6 new zones which are more manageable in a year time frame and they will not have to compromise on quality either. Dry top maybe small but we know its going to get bigger.

…That’s not how expansions work. Man, I feel old if I still remember how expansions used to work…

Dusty Moon.4382:

I wonder how many got the hint dropped A.Net dropped in the beginning LS2 story. The hint was the Zephyrites are disciples of Glint. That is a HUGE hint drop.

Actually they dropped it on the first week the Zephyrites showed up, on season one.

-

As for paid updates, no, I rather have this system a lot more.
The reason I’m still playing is because of living story, if I had to wait a year for an update I’d stop and forget about it frankly, this way there’s always something new every two weeks or so.
That’s what I call end game content, not grind meaningless numbers to infinity while waiting for an expansion that’s burn out in 3 weeks and back to grind nothingness, text book threadmill.

BlueZone.4236:

Galen Grey.4709:

Palador.2170:

I’m skipping most of the thread, so I can give my answer without getting sidetracked by something else. Apologies if someone beat me to this.

I would rather have an expansion. Why? Quality. Let me compare Dry Top and Queensdale (to use a zone I think most players know fairly well) to explain what I mean:

Dry Top is a good area. Maybe even awesome. But it’s small. Why? Most of us seem to agree that it’s only part of the zone, and we’ll be getting the rest of it in installments as the story goes on. I’m going to take a guess and say it will be 6 installments, separated out over the course of LS2. Sounds good, right? New zone in the LS, we just get it in parts.

But that’s the problem, it’s in parts. This requires designing a zone that is broken up into smaller parts. Nothing in Part A can require Part B because Part B won’t be out yet when Part A goes live. And the zone can’t be wide open, there have to be pinch points where progress can be cut off to keep us from getting further into the zone than we’re supposed to at any point.

Now, look at Queensdale. There’s a zone that has a few pinch points, but only small areas (bandit caves) can be cut off from access. Mostly, it’s a fairly open zone with plenty of freedom as to where you go. Picture what they would have to do if they wanted to break it into 6 installment parts. It’s not pretty, and it pretty much wrecks the whole feel of the zone, right?

This is the real problem with the LS versus an expansion, the need to break things down into smaller updates. The need to make things fit into a smaller updates instead of releasing it all at once is a limitation on what they can pull off, and I’m sure it applies to more than just zones. LS2 Ep1’s plot had a very clear break in the plot, for example, to allow for people to stop at that point. It seems like a good stopping point at first, until you realize our characters would (most likely) NOT just stop there for a while. Again, it’s a break they’ve been forced to build into things to accommodate the LS style of updates.

This is the main reason why I think an expansion would be better.

You provide your own answer but totally ignore it. Yes dry top is a small map compared with Queensdale but its most likely a small part of the real zone too. If they were to release a full zone every 2 weeks they’d need to develop 26 zones per year on top of the living story instances. Thats way too much so they did like you said, they broke the map down releasing a new part every 2 weeks. if they break every zone into 4 prieces will get 6 new zones which are more manageable in a year time frame and they will not have to compromise on quality either. Dry top maybe small but we know its going to get bigger.

…That’s not how expansions work. Man, I feel old if I still remember how expansions used to work…

Well i was talking about the living story not expansions. And not about all of it but specifically about new zones.

Besides what do you mean thats not how expansions work? there are many different types of expansions. Some large that introduced many new zones, new classes, new dungeons etc.. some small that only introduced a handful of new dungeons and nothing else. This has been true since the dawn of MMOs.

Olba.5376:

So I paid the box price and I should be willing to give up my access to the game unless I’m willing to fork over more? You do realize that this is one of the reasons the people who do not play subscription-based games are the way they are?

What if I am perfectly happy with the game even without an expansion? Should I be willing to give up a game I like unless I pay for something I never asked for in the first place?

One does not (in any MMO I’ve heard of) lose access to the existing game if one does not buy an expansion.

If you are perfectly happy with the existing content, and have no interest in an expansion, then you could continue to play the existing content.

Ashen.2907:

Olba.5376:

So I paid the box price and I should be willing to give up my access to the game unless I’m willing to fork over more? You do realize that this is one of the reasons the people who do not play subscription-based games are the way they are?

What if I am perfectly happy with the game even without an expansion? Should I be willing to give up a game I like unless I pay for something I never asked for in the first place?

One does not (in any MMO I’ve heard of) lose access to the existing game if one does not buy an expansion.

If you are perfectly happy with the existing content, and have no interest in an expansion, then you could continue to play the existing content.

I’m not sure that’s the point though. If you’re in a guild or you play with friends, it becomes an issue.

I had dungeons in DDO I couldn’t go to with my friends because they’d purchased that content and I didn’t. Same with Lotro. There were areas I didn’t have unlocked. My friends could go and I couldn’t.

With this system, everyone can go everywhere. You don’t divide the community into have and have nots.

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Olba.5376:

So I paid the box price and I should be willing to give up my access to the game unless I’m willing to fork over more? You do realize that this is one of the reasons the people who do not play subscription-based games are the way they are?

What if I am perfectly happy with the game even without an expansion? Should I be willing to give up a game I like unless I pay for something I never asked for in the first place?

One does not (in any MMO I’ve heard of) lose access to the existing game if one does not buy an expansion.

If you are perfectly happy with the existing content, and have no interest in an expansion, then you could continue to play the existing content.

I’m not sure that’s the point though. If you’re in a guild or you play with friends, it becomes an issue.

I had dungeons in DDO I couldn’t go to with my friends because they’d purchased that content and I didn’t. Same with Lotro. There were areas I didn’t have unlocked. My friends could go and I couldn’t.

With this system, everyone can go everywhere. You don’t divide the community into have and have nots.

I was responding to comments about access to the existing game. I ran into the same situation (in reverse) in LoTRO. Then again there are a few of my friends that didn’t buy GW2. Can’t play it with them as a result. I don’t think that it is reasonable to ask that a company not charge for their work out of concern that some people will not want/be able to buy it.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Olba.5376:

So I paid the box price and I should be willing to give up my access to the game unless I’m willing to fork over more? You do realize that this is one of the reasons the people who do not play subscription-based games are the way they are?

What if I am perfectly happy with the game even without an expansion? Should I be willing to give up a game I like unless I pay for something I never asked for in the first place?

One does not (in any MMO I’ve heard of) lose access to the existing game if one does not buy an expansion.

If you are perfectly happy with the existing content, and have no interest in an expansion, then you could continue to play the existing content.

I’m not sure that’s the point though. If you’re in a guild or you play with friends, it becomes an issue.

I had dungeons in DDO I couldn’t go to with my friends because they’d purchased that content and I didn’t. Same with Lotro. There were areas I didn’t have unlocked. My friends could go and I couldn’t.

With this system, everyone can go everywhere. You don’t divide the community into have and have nots.

I was responding to comments about access to the existing game. I ran into the same situation (in reverse) in LoTRO. Then again there are a few of my friends that didn’t buy GW2. Can’t play it with them as a result. I don’t think that it is reasonable to ask that a company not charge for their work out of concern that some people will not want/be able to buy it.

Sure it’s fair for Devs to charge for their work. But if they’re willing to give away stuff for free, I’m not going to be the one complaining about it.

People keep asking about getting better rewards and more gear looks in the game itself and not the gem store. Unfortunetly, this is not going to happen with Living Story since you are not paying anything for it and no money is being generated from it. Why do you think most of all the armor and weapon skins are in the gem store? Because it is the only way for the company to make money. An expansion would allow more looks and rewards to be in the game itself since the company would make money off selling the expansion.

I for one really do not care too much either way at the moment. Just thought people should realize that there is a trade off with Living story that people may not realize.

SkiTz.4590:

What? xpac content = new gears, weapons, dungs, skills, new bosses, etc possibles races/classes.
When the heck has this bi-weekly update system produced something like that?
Majority of these bi-weekly updates are ONLY focused story + new gemstore stuff and tool tip updates LOL…. .its been 2 years and still haven’t seen anything remotely close to xpac like content being added to this game. By this time around, GW1 had factions and that xpac alone had more content added than what anet has added to GW2. And i mean NEWCONTENT , not some silly features and revamps to runes and terrible class balancing

From initial release until now, I can list the following additions from Living Story from memory:

- Southsun Shore, an entire zone, complete with events and a major boss.
- Southsun Survival, Crab Toss, Sanctum Sprint (I won’t mention the holiday mini games since they aren’t permanent)
- Edge of the Mists, a gigantic WvWvW zone
-Fractals of the Mist, which has I don’t know how many different dungeons in them these days, none of which were out at release
- New Aetherblade path in TA
- New healing skills for every class
- 10+ new armor sets, sure they are available on gem store, but who cares that’s where the money comes from
- tons of new weapon skins, Love-laced, Phoenix, Dreamthistle, etc. etc.
- lots of musical instruments
- Dry Top, new zone, which obviously only a portion is available, but will be an entire zone
- Completely updated UI for managing skins, dyes, PvP builds, etc.
- Ascended armor, Ascended weapons, new stat combos
- A plethora of new back-piece skins

I’m sure someone else can add to the list.

Point is. When you add all of this crap up, it’s an expansion’s worth of content. Problem is, you whiners will literally complain about everything. Pretty sure the responses to this will be along the lines of: pfft FoTM sucks, EoTM nobody likes and is a zergfest, ascended armor is a grind, new UI sucks, Southsun is boring, karka queen is lame, those mini-games stink, etc. etc. Fact is, whether you like the content or not is completely irrelevant, they have put out plenty of content for free over the course of 2 years.

Just because you don’t like the content doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

Derigar.7810:

Honestly, how many of you would’ve rather seen an expansion pack?

Not me!

Draknar.5748:

Point is. When you add all of this crap up, it’s an expansion’s worth of content. Problem is, you whiners will literally complain about everything.

Point is, it doesn’t add up to an expansion’s worth of content, and it certainly doesn’t add up to an expansion’s worth of quality.

And by the way, calling people with whom you disagree whiners is childish and disrespectful. No one from the other side (that I’ve seen) is calling those who don’t want a paid expansion “poor” or saying of them “they don’t want a paid expansion because they can’t afford to buy one”. This is supposed to be a place for mature discussion about Guild Wars 2. Please act accordingly.

Derigar.7810:

Honestly, how many of you would’ve rather seen an expansion pack?

Living story gives us:
- Free updates
- Every 2 or so weeks
- Small amount of content

An expansion pack gives us
- Paid update
- All updates in one big batch
- Massive amount of content

Now, I don’t want to sound like an ungrateful person, but I’d rather have paid for an expansion pack. Why? Because I would have loved to see a new profession, race, a lot of new lands and more! Me and friends have been speculating the Chronomancer ever since before release. We were all very sad when it didn’t come as we were wanting to make a video series about “Back to the Future”. Alas…

I think you are pretty unfair in your compairison.
This is how it looks in my eyes.

Living story gives us (Based on the experience I have got from paying GW2 since headstart.):
- Free updates.
- Every 2 or so weeks.
- Small to medium amount of content.
- A reason to play atleast once every two weeks or so.
- Gives the Developers a chance to do small tweaks to the LS every two weeks or so depending on players feedback.
- World changes little by little.
- Something new to look forward to every two weeks or so.
- A few Bugs that mostly get fixed at patch week or until next patch.

An expansion pack gives us (Based on experience from other MMO’s with this feature.):
- Paid update.
- All updates in one big batch once a year at best.
- Massive amount of content.
- A reason to shelf the game a year to play other games.
- A truckload of bugs that will take massive ammount of time to fix.

Saying an update will bring us Dungeons and other stuff that we didn’t get from the LS updates is bull since we don’t know what we would have gotten from an Expac.

Draknar.5748:

Someone posting on the forums about how horrible Living Story is because it doesn’t add any content is really just talking out of their sphincter.

So anyone who disagrees with you is talking out their kitten

darkace.8925:

Draknar.5748:

Someone posting on the forums about how horrible Living Story is because it doesn’t add any content is really just talking out of their sphincter.

So anyone who disagrees with you is talking out their kitten

Content is objective. Saying content is subjective is incorrect.
You cannot disagree with someone, when they are just flat-out wrong. There is no opinion to disagree with, it’s just not factual to say content isn’t being added.

Vayne.8563:

Riaky.8965:

Taygus.4571:

jiust log in once every 2 weeks, ..don’t play. in 6 months time, then play. Should have “lots of content” then.

to burn through in a few days, just as you would with an expansion.

That is not true, every 2 weeks content can finish in less than 2 hours so if u do the math for 6 months thats like 12 hours to finish all the 2 weeks contents. But if it was “Expansion” contents then it would last for months

You did not finish this content in less than two hours. I’m calling BS on thsi for sure. Unless you just followed a Dulfy guide after it was out. Anyone can finish anything if someone tells them how to do it.

Don’t forget to call BS on his ‘doing the math’ too. 2 hrs bi-weekly for 6 months would get you to 24-26 he’s…not 12. The rest of it is as well thought out….

Olba.5376:

So I paid the box price and I should be willing to give up my access to the game unless I’m willing to fork over more?

Did you pay for access to the “game”, or just the content that came with the box price? More importantly, who has more of a right to make that choice, the people who bought it or the people who made it?

Bear in mind, the need to pay for content wouldn’t necessarily mean they’re trying to nickel and dime us, I’d hope it would mean that they can only release completely free content – which they’ve been doing for nearly two years – for so long before more strings get attached.

Olba.5376:

You do realize that this is one of the reasons the people who do not play subscription-based games are the way they are?

Of course, but what you get for your subscription fee is more ambiguous. It’s not the same as actually being able to see something on the shelf and choose to buy it, you have to hope that what they develop with your money is to your liking.

Olba.5376:

But you are right. The playerbase is accustomed to free content. What this means is that the bar that an expansion has to clear to be called a good expansion is set pretty kitten high.

…

That their goal is to deliver expansion-like content with it. If they ever truly succeed in that, then any hope for an expansion pack is basically dead forever.

Bear in mind: I’m not just talking about an expansion pack, I’m talking about paid content, period. They’ve already taken steps towards this, too, with certain content having a price tag if you missed it’s release.

Generally, there’s this underlying belief that if Anet followed a more traditional payment model – similar to their previous title – it would improve the quality of the content. That may be true in a few areas (no cash shop = no black lion slotmachines), but ultimately it comes down to whether the content is true or not. The belief may also be partially fueled by how Diablo III turned out after removing the AH and switching to an expansion format.

When it comes down to how I feel about it, it’s mainly because I strongly disagree with turning real cash into virtual cash. Ideally, I’d want a game where the replayability is strong and enjoyable without ever feeling the desire to ‘speed it up’ through a credit card. How do you think GW2’s cash shop would’ve ended up without gold>gems? The idea is an interesting one, and something I hope GW2 is able to grow out of in the future.

Olba.5376:

Well my perspective is a bit different. I think that the long term for Guild Wars 2 is in the PvP scene. That being WvW and sPvP. I just don’t see how they could make a lengthy sustainable PvE that would keep everyone satisfied for years without risking a lot. They can’t put in a gear grind and putting in a cosmetic grind runs the risk of lowering their Gem Store profits significantly. That isn’t an issue in PvP, where your primary goal is to improve your proficiency at playing the game.

Heck, coming from one of those horrible f2p games myself, I truly and honestly hope that PvP does become a major thing in GW2. Because I absolutely love how fair it is. There is no gap between someone who spends 300$ every month on Gems and someone who spends none.

I’d agree, so it’s really sad to see that SPvP is the least supported of the ‘game modes’, with PvE and WvW being the others so to speak. I can’t speak for everyone, but I just don’t find it that fun. It doesn’t feel all to different from the PvP I’ve played in other MMOs, and I never really enjoyed them there, either. They were just extrinsically rewarding.

ArenaNet is releasing living world and they will release an expansion anyhow by 2015.

I would much rather pay for an expansion every year. Even if they would deliver exactly the same content with the living story.

The whole problem is that this living story approach also means they need to focus on the cash-shop to earn money in stead of focusing on expansions.

So we see the gold-grind, many items that should have been in the game-world in the cash-shop and so on. It has suck all the fun out of the game. (depending on your preferred gameplay)

So yes I rather see a paid expansion once a year and then no (or an extremely limited) cash-shop.

Making expansions instead of 2 weeks of small patches doesn’t prevent ANet to focus on the cash-shop. You can check LotRO as an example for this. Small patches in 4-5 months in a year and one big(!) expansion once in a year. However, they focus on their shop between patches/expansions (and unlike GW2, it has monthly subscription too).

Phoenixlin.8624:

Making expansions instead of 2 weeks of small patches doesn’t prevent ANet to focus on the cash-shop. You can check LotRO as an example for this. Small patches in 4-5 months in a year and one big(!) expansion once in a year. However, they focus on their shop between patches/expansions (and unlike GW2, it has monthly subscription too).

Not sure how much LotRO focuses on the cash-shop and so how much it effects the game but the fact is that now Anet has to focus on it. Sure they can still do it and so negatively effect the game even when they release expansion but they can also then just focus on the expansions purely and having a better game for it. An option that is not available now.

Devata.6589:

Phoenixlin.8624:

Making expansions instead of 2 weeks of small patches doesn’t prevent ANet to focus on the cash-shop. You can check LotRO as an example for this. Small patches in 4-5 months in a year and one big(!) expansion once in a year. However, they focus on their shop between patches/expansions (and unlike GW2, it has monthly subscription too).

Not sure how much LotRO focuses on the cash-shop and so how much it effects the game but the fact is that now Anet has to focus on it. Sure they can still do it and so negatively effect the game even when they release expansion but they can also then just focus on the expansions purely and having a better game for it. An option that is not available now.

As far as I’m concerned the Lotro shop is much worse, but that’s because the game itself isn’t really free. You have to buy areas, or quest packs. There are professions that aren’t unlocked unless you pay to unlock them.

When I played the game I had a friend who wanted to quest in a certain area, but I hadn’t paid to unlock that area, and I couldn’t quest with him until I did so.

You keep talking about how this game is based on the cash shop, but compared to most other MMORPGs that don’t have a sub, this game is very very gentle in that way.

It is interesting that Turbine gave up the concept of a big paid expansion too. They switched to several smaller releases spread over the year. The concept is much closer to the LW of GW2: Parts delivered on a much more regular base and obtainable without paying money if you want to go this way.

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Phoenixlin.8624:

Making expansions instead of 2 weeks of small patches doesn’t prevent ANet to focus on the cash-shop. You can check LotRO as an example for this. Small patches in 4-5 months in a year and one big(!) expansion once in a year. However, they focus on their shop between patches/expansions (and unlike GW2, it has monthly subscription too).

Not sure how much LotRO focuses on the cash-shop and so how much it effects the game but the fact is that now Anet has to focus on it. Sure they can still do it and so negatively effect the game even when they release expansion but they can also then just focus on the expansions purely and having a better game for it. An option that is not available now.

As far as I’m concerned the Lotro shop is much worse, but that’s because the game itself isn’t really free. You have to buy areas, or quest packs. There are professions that aren’t unlocked unless you pay to unlock them.

When I played the game I had a friend who wanted to quest in a certain area, but I hadn’t paid to unlock that area, and I couldn’t quest with him until I did so.

You keep talking about how this game is based on the cash shop, but compared to most other MMORPGs that don’t have a sub, this game is very very gentle in that way.

Well if a game would lock the type of things you mention about LotRO behind a expansion I would be fine with that. Makes it more B2P does it not. If it comes in all small DLC like stuff then I don’t like it. That said. Pointing to other games that might be worse (not saying it is.. don’t know the details about that game) does not make it good for another.

In fact if you have to point to another game to say it worse when ‘defending’ the current game that does not say much good for the current game. (generally speaking)

About if it’s worse or bad. That really depends on your preferred game-play. I don’t like to grind currency. I like to work in the game directly towards cosmetics. I like to do fun crafts and all that sort of things. Those fun more cosmetic like elements have mostly been stripped out of the game in favor of the cash-shop. Or they have been turned into a currency grind or just become trivial and with that I mean.. yeah there are a few mini for example you can get in the game (while mostly still the best way to get them is by grinding gold) but how fun is that if 90% of that are still cash-shop / currency grind. That makes the few ‘good’ ones not interesting anymore as well. So if thats what you like the cash-hop focus has very much sucked the joy out of this game. You keep saying that compared to some other games it’s oke.

I keep saying that comparing to bad games is bad and that if the the current approach is bad for the game it does not even matter if there are games that are even worse. There probably are. So what. That does not make it any better.

And then we haven’t even talked about how there “we have to be different” approach has been limiting the game in many ways. Add that to it and you have a game that had great potential but can’t deliver where it should.

But heey there are games that are worse.

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Phoenixlin.8624:

Making expansions instead of 2 weeks of small patches doesn’t prevent ANet to focus on the cash-shop. You can check LotRO as an example for this. Small patches in 4-5 months in a year and one big(!) expansion once in a year. However, they focus on their shop between patches/expansions (and unlike GW2, it has monthly subscription too).

Not sure how much LotRO focuses on the cash-shop and so how much it effects the game but the fact is that now Anet has to focus on it. Sure they can still do it and so negatively effect the game even when they release expansion but they can also then just focus on the expansions purely and having a better game for it. An option that is not available now.

As far as I’m concerned the Lotro shop is much worse, but that’s because the game itself isn’t really free. You have to buy areas, or quest packs. There are professions that aren’t unlocked unless you pay to unlock them.

When I played the game I had a friend who wanted to quest in a certain area, but I hadn’t paid to unlock that area, and I couldn’t quest with him until I did so.

You keep talking about how this game is based on the cash shop, but compared to most other MMORPGs that don’t have a sub, this game is very very gentle in that way.

Well if a game would lock the type of things you mention about LotRO behind a expansion I would be fine with that. Makes it more B2P does it not. If it comes in all small DLC like stuff then I don’t like it. That said. Pointing to other games that might be worse (not saying it is.. don’t know the details about that game) does not make it good for another.

In fact if you have to point to another game to say it worse when ‘defending’ the current game that does not say much good for the current game. (generally speaking)

About if it’s worse or bad. That really depends on your preferred game-play. I don’t like to grind currency. I like to work in the game directly towards cosmetics. I like to do fun crafts and all that sort of things. Those fun more cosmetic like elements have mostly been stripped out of the game in favor of the cash-shop. Or they have been turned into a currency grind or just become trivial and with that I mean.. yeah there are a few mini for example you can get in the game (while mostly still the best way to get them is by grinding gold) but how fun is that if 90% of that are still cash-shop / currency grind. That makes the few ‘good’ ones not interesting anymore as well. So if thats what you like the cash-hop focus has very much sucked the joy out of this game. You keep saying that compared to some other games it’s oke.

I keep saying that comparing to bad games is bad and that if the the current approach is bad for the game it does not even matter if there are games that are even worse. There probably are. So what. That does not make it any better.

And then we haven’t even talked about how there “we have to be different” approach has been limiting the game in many ways. Add that to it and you have a game that had great potential but can’t deliver where it should.

But heey there are games that are worse.

I’m not pointing to another game to defend this game. I’m saying this game doesn’t really need defending. You’re attacking it because of your limited experience with other cash shops. I’m saying this isn’t a bad cash shop.

You don’t like cash shop games period. None of them. If you don’t like them, nothing is going to make you happy other than not having a game depend on cash shops.

Cash shops are now a fact of life. Even sub games have them.

You can talk about this games cash shop until you’re blue in the face, but because it’s not offensive compared to the others, most people aren’t going to jump on that bandwagon. It’s just logic.

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Phoenixlin.8624:

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I’m not pointing to another game to defend this game. I’m saying this game doesn’t really need defending. You’re attacking it because of your limited experience with other cash shops. I’m saying this isn’t a bad cash shop.

You don’t like cash shop games period. None of them. If you don’t like them, nothing is going to make you happy other than not having a game depend on cash shops.

Cash shops are now a fact of life. Even sub games have them.

You can talk about this games cash shop until you’re blue in the face, but because it’s not offensive compared to the others, most people aren’t going to jump on that bandwagon. It’s just logic.

“I’m not pointing to another game to defend this game.” > “because it’s not offensive compared to the others” You see there you do it again.

“not having a game depend on cash shops.” .. “Cash shops are now a fact of life. Even sub games have them.” You see there is a difference there. Depending on them (like F2P games should) or just having them but not depending on them (Like B2P and P2P games should).

I have no limited experience with them. They tend to be almost always bad, thats one of the reasons I got interested in GW2 as it was promoted as a B2P game.. So should not be depending on it.

And I am not so sure so many people will jump on the bandwagon. Sure many people are no very wise if it comes to this sort of things. They jump onto an MMO. Spend hundred of dollars on the cash-shop then complain the game is bad, failing to see they helped to support that bad behavior and then move on tot he next game from the same publisher to do the same. However at some point people will get it.

That cash-shop focus would be here to say… well thats what they said about P2P games (in fact some still do) just a few years ago. However most games had to come back from there P2P approach.

Will me talking about it help. Well I do feel the game is losing people and I have been saying from the beginning (that I got really active here) that it would work in the short run, but be bad in the long run. Long rust starting at about 3 years. Anet could be wise and take my advise. I was also ones of the first complaining about the temporary nature of the content. It took Anet almost a year to come to that same conclusion. So maybe they should learn form that, that listening to people on these forums might be a good idea. If not at least I hope some more people will see how one effects the other and start approaching games in another way. As soon as enough people do that things (in general, not only in GW2) also start to change.

At some point there will be some developer that gets it write.

So yes I do think it help even if it’s a little bid. The only thing that does not help or even only makes it worse is jumping on the bandwagon because you know it can be worse. That will only make it worse.

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Phoenixlin.8624:

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I’m not pointing to another game to defend this game. I’m saying this game doesn’t really need defending. You’re attacking it because of your limited experience with other cash shops. I’m saying this isn’t a bad cash shop.

You don’t like cash shop games period. None of them. If you don’t like them, nothing is going to make you happy other than not having a game depend on cash shops.

Cash shops are now a fact of life. Even sub games have them.

You can talk about this games cash shop until you’re blue in the face, but because it’s not offensive compared to the others, most people aren’t going to jump on that bandwagon. It’s just logic.

“I’m not pointing to another game to defend this game.” > “because it’s not offensive compared to the others” You see there you do it again.

“not having a game depend on cash shops.” .. “Cash shops are now a fact of life. Even sub games have them.” You see there is a difference there. Depending on them (like F2P games should) or just having them but not depending on them (Like B2P and P2P games should).

I have no limited experience with them. They tend to be almost always bad, thats one of the reasons I got interested in GW2 as it was promoted as a B2P game.. So should not be depending on it.

And I am not so sure so many people will jump on the bandwagon. Sure many people are no very wise if it comes to this sort of things. They jump onto an MMO. Spend hundred of dollars on the cash-shop then complain the game is bad, failing to see they helped to support that bad behavior and then move on tot he next game from the same publisher to do the same. However at some point people will get it.

That cash-shop focus would be here to say… well thats what they said about P2P games (in fact some still do) just a few years ago. However most games had to come back from there P2P approach.

Will me talking about it help. Well I do feel the game is losing people and I have been saying from the beginning (that I got really active here) that it would work in the short run, but be bad in the long run. Long rust starting at about 3 years. Anet could be wise and take my advise. I was also ones of the first complaining about the temporary nature of the content. It took Anet almost a year to come to that same conclusion. So maybe they should learn form that, that listening to people on these forums might be a good idea. If not at least I hope some more people will see how one effects the other and start approaching games in another way. As soon as enough people do that things (in general, not only in GW2) also start to change.

At some point there will be some developer that gets it write.

So yes I do think it help even if it’s a little bid. The only thing that does not help or even only makes it worse is jumping on the bandwagon because you know it can be worse. That will only make it worse.

As I’ve said over and over again, what Guild Wars 1 did will never happen again because it’s a different time and place. MMOs cost to much to produce. There’s too much risk involved. Any MMO that doesn’t put the money in won’t have the funds necessary to make an ambitious enough game to compete.

In an ideal world, I’d probably agree with you. This world just isn’t ideal.

The game you’re waiting for will probably never arrive.

Vayne.8563:

Riaky.8965:

Taygus.4571:

jiust log in once every 2 weeks, ..don’t play. in 6 months time, then play. Should have “lots of content” then.

to burn through in a few days, just as you would with an expansion.

That is not true, every 2 weeks content can finish in less than 2 hours so if u do the math for 6 months thats like 12 hours to finish all the 2 weeks contents. But if it was “Expansion” contents then it would last for months

You did not finish this content in less than two hours. I’m calling BS on thsi for sure. Unless you just followed a Dulfy guide after it was out. Anyone can finish anything if someone tells them how to do it.

No dulfy guide. Finished it in 1.5 hours. ??? I didn’t skip any of the story either and completed the jumping puzzle , vistas/poi etc and a few random achievements. Not complaining about the content I liked it more so then most of season 1. One of my favorite parts was actually the non combat instance that was all story related.