Guild Wars 2

I really wanted to defend GW2 I got all my friends to play and then they pretty much told me something that changed my mind about this game.

“Too much stuff here is optional”

You don’t even have to speak to another player in game and you can get full Exotics. You don’t even have to talk to anyone and you get credit for Boss DE’s and WvW. I’m starting to notice i rarely party with anyone outside of dungeons. I don’t party with anyone in WvW either, spvpp doesn’t really count.

This entire game is solable and since it is no one communicates outside of LA.

Anyone getting this feel i’m starting to feel that the MM in MMO is lost for GW2.

Genesis.5169:

“Too much stuff here is optional”

Yes.

The game gives you the option of talking to people, not when you are forced to, but rather when you want to.

If you are playing the game by yourself, without never trying to interact with people simply because the game is not forcing you to… Why are you playing a MMO, again?

The game has as much grouped content as you and those you surround yourself with (guild and friends) care to do. I am really opposed to having too much forced group content in order to achieve things in MMOs. Yes, it’s a multiplayer genre, but we all have our own goals, priorities, and time constraints.

And yes, the VAST majority of this game is completely optional. If you don’t want to do something, you never really have to.

An argument I could understand is that there is not enough FUN stuff to do. That argument, while subjective, can be valid. To that end, I would recommend making suggestions or supporting current suggestions for future content.

However, if you really want to explore a map with other people, ask to tag along with someone or let your guild know before starting one. Also, when you come upon an event, ping the closest waypoint and invite other people. Yes, you CAN solo most of them…but you can also invite others on the map to enjoy it as well.

Take away the MM and you won’t be able to do anything you listed that you said you could do without it.

Take away all people and there are no WvWvW, take away all people and you can’t do dungeons, take away people and you won’t even be able to group.

All the stuff you have gained is the help of other people even if you think it or not. All the events you have completed some people helped you, all the people who charged that castle helped you, all those people you grouped with to kill a dungeon boss helped you, and you helped them.

Erasculio.2914:

Genesis.5169:

“Too much stuff here is optional”

Yes.

The game gives you the option of talking to people, not when you are forced to, but rather when you want to.

If you are playing the game by yourself, without never trying to interact with people simply because the game is not forcing you to… Why are you playing a MMO, again?

The thing is.
Everything is obtainable without help.
I play MMO’s to work with people to obtain a great goal you could not do alone. There’s none of that in GW2.

And no one ever wants to why would i want to risk repair bill on players who may not be good on content i can complete on my own?

Farzo.8410:

Take away the MM and you won’t be able to do anything you listed that you said you could do without it.

Take away all people and there are no WvWvW, take away all people and you can’t do dungeons, take away people and you won’t even be able to group.

All the stuff you have gained is the help of other people even if you think it or not. All the events you have completed some people helped you, all the people who charged that castle helped you, all those people you grouped with to kill a dungeon boss helped you, and you helped then.

All with no communication or a common goal. It’s basically the same thing as GW1 where you had npcs. Only the npcs are somewhat smarter and manually controlled.

Genesis.5169:

Everything is obtainable without help.

Yes. So, again, you are not forced to play with other people; you can play with people when you want to. If you never play with people because you never want to play with people, well…

Genesis.5169:

And no one ever wants to why would i want to risk repair bill on players who may not be good on content i can complete on my own?

…Why would you risk repair bills because you were playing with other people? You are assuming that playing with others would make you die more, is that it? Where did you get that idea from?

Erasculio.2914:

Genesis.5169:

Everything is obtainable without help.

Yes. So, again, you are not forced to play with other people; you can play with people when you want to. If you never play with people because you never want to play with people, well…

Genesis.5169:

And no one ever wants to why would i want to risk repair bill on players who may not be good on content i can complete on my own?

…Why would you risk repair bills because you were playing with other people? You are assuming that playing with others would make you die more, is that it? Where did you get that idea from?

Have you been with people who pull every add in an instance for no reason who dies. Or that guy who fails to make it on a easy run and everyone dies or wipes to save him?

Your telling me you have never died because some idiot failed to succeed?

Genesis.5169:

Have you been with people who pull every add in an instance for no reason who dies. Or that guy who fails to make it on a easy run and everyone dies or wipes to save him?

Your telling me you have never died because some idiot failed to succeed?

Outside a dungeon? No. And dungeons cannot be soloed, so the point is moot. There is nothing else in this game that people call a “run”, so your argument doesn’t make much sense. Are you really talking about GW2?

Erasculio.2914:

Genesis.5169:

Have you been with people who pull every add in an instance for no reason who dies. Or that guy who fails to make it on a easy run and everyone dies or wipes to save him?

Your telling me you have never died because some idiot failed to succeed?

Outside a dungeon? No. And dungeons cannot be soloed, so the point is moot. There is nothing else in this game that people call a “run”, so your argument doesn’t make much sense.

Orr?
Southsun?

Mass orr pulls for no reason?
Some one pulling 3 veteran karkas for no reason?

Do you do world pve at all?

LOL! Roflcopter!

You actually used MY term!!! Yaaaaay!

Anyhow, it is still not there. Whether it’ll turn into an OLG or it becomes full fledged MMO is upon the decisions of ANet. We’ll see on Spring. The seed can be rotten or marvelous and only time when you can see what kind of seed is, is in the Spring.

Poetic again! I love it!

Genesis.5169:

Orr?
Southsun?

Do you really die in those, against common enemies roaming in the world? The only content close to challenging in those areas are within dynamic events. If someone aggros half the map, runs in your direction and you can’t deal with those enemies, just walk in the opposite direction for a bit and you will lose aggro. Regardless, I have never, ever died in Orr because of other people pulling mobs to me – and don’t make me laugh, as if there were anyone in Southsun to actually pull enemies over other players.

and are you saying that you never failed and made the others wipe because of a mistake?

and i would like to see you get Stone Mist alone or even a Keep for that mather without cheating in any way even without any enemy attacking you

and are you groupe up with people just because your in party with them or are you grouped up with people because you do the same contend with manly the same goal as them?
i would say the later as no mather if your in a groupe or not loot is personal so its all a mather of how sociable you are and how much initiativ you take that mathers

Korsbaek.9803:

and are you saying that you never failed and made the others wipe because of a mistake?

and i would like to see you get Stone Mist alone or even a Keep for that mather without cheating in any way even without any enemy attacking you

and are you groupe up with people just because your in party with them or are you grouped up with people because you do the same contend with manly the same goal as them?
i would say the later as no mather if your in a groupe or not loot is personal so its all a mather of how sociable you are and how much initiativ you take that mathers

No i haven’t not in my lifetime of GW2.
I’m far to experienced in mmo’s and gaming in general to suddenly pull aggro and kill myself and others.

Genesis.5169:

I’m far to experienced in mmo’s and gaming in general to suddenly pull aggro and kill myself and others.

Experience in other MMOs is more detrimental than a benefit in GW2. Many MMO players jump from MMO to MMO seeking a copy of their first virtual world, whether they realize it or not (there’s a great read about it here). Considering how the main qualities of GW2 are in how it’s different from other MMOs, this can lead people to play the game as if it were something it’s not. Trying to play GW2 as if it were a classic MMO is a recipe for failure, as there would be little to no satisfaction to be earned from that.

I do notice the community in game is a little quiet… But then again that might just be me being new and shy. I dunno much about the game yet so I dont have much to talk about.

However I really like the cooperative gameplay Gw2 has. When people band together to do a hard quest or big boss fight it’s basically the same as being grouped together. We’re working together and no one has to miss out.

Curious. Have you ever tried to spark a conversation?

Erasculio.2914:

Genesis.5169:

I’m far to experienced in mmo’s and gaming in general to suddenly pull aggro and kill myself and others.

Experience in other MMOs is more detrimental than a benefit in GW2. Many MMO players jump from MMO to MMO seeking a copy of their first virtual world, whether they realize it or not (there’s a great read about it here). Considering how the main qualities of GW2 are in how it’s different from other MMOs, this can lead people to play the game as if it were something it’s not. Trying to play GW2 as if it were a classic MMO is a recipe for failure, as there would be little to no satisfaction to be earned from that.

Interesting read, the only thing this did for me though was considering to quit Gw2 and play TERA with my friends.

Vail.1065:

I do notice the community in game is a little quiet… But then again that might just be me being new and shy. I dunno much about the game yet so I dont have much to talk about.

However I really like the cooperative gameplay Gw2 has. When people band together to do a hard quest or big boss fight it’s basically the same as being grouped together. We’re working together and no one has to miss out.

Curious. Have you ever tried to spark a conversation?

I have over 1k hours of this game, I have plenty of times where I talk a bit in yell maybe party some one (9times out of 10 its declined). Things like shatterer and jormag, and orr people do group up but not in a party because its not needed and its the most silent zerg ever.

The only exception is southsun karka farming and rich ori mining. Since you have to party up there to grind faster and efficiently and you have to pt up to get to that rich ori vein the community there is pretty vocal southsun is one of my favorite spots to chill too.

But yeah this game is quiet outside of LA man.

Edit : Grammar.

Erasculio.2914:

Why are you playing a MMO, again?

I play MMOs not to socialize. But to ensure there is always some one on to kill when ever I play WvW.

Killer explorers represent.

I hate to compare with WoW but it’s kinda the same thing there. You hardly ever see people talking in general chat anywhere other than the main cities. Although in Gw2 I think more people would have more reason to communicate.. As questing and what not can actually be challenging.

It’s kinda sad but maybe that’s just how MMOs are now a days?

The best part of GW2 is that it isn’t designed to force player cooperation. This is also the worst part of GW2. For better or for worse, it’s the design choice that sets the game apart. I try to appreciate it for what it is.

Vail.1065:

I hate to compare with WoW but it’s kinda the same thing there. You hardly ever see people talking in general chat anywhere other than the main cities. Although in Gw2 I think more people would have more reason to communicate.. As questing and what not can actually be challenging.

It’s kinda sad but maybe that’s just how MMOs are now a days?

No i agree with you i consider it Lobby of Warcraft. I quit during WotLK it has become a silent game. How ever i must say vanilla WoW far more different and social then LK Cata and Mists combined.

I think the best part of GW2 is the large amount of ad-hoc cooperation between players. It’s something I’ve never before seen in an MMO setting. In most MMOs, you largely stay by yourself unless you’re forming a group to accomplish something. Random folk are often seen as nuisances to someone doing quests. People basically never randomly start working together without any coordination or without using the group mechanic.

That’s completely different in GW2 because it’s there’s no reason not to. You might not talk to anyone, but you’re actually interacting with other people far more than almost any other MMO.

MrQuizzles.6823:

I think the best part of GW2 is the large amount of ad-hoc cooperation between players. It’s something I’ve never before seen in an MMO setting. In most MMOs, you largely stay by yourself unless you’re forming a group to accomplish something. Random folk are often seen as nuisances to someone doing quests. People basically never randomly start working together without any coordination or without using the group mechanic.

That’s completely different in GW2 because it’s there’s no reason not to. You might not talk to anyone, but you’re actually interacting with other people far more than almost any other MMO.

True. Perhaps “cooperation” was the wrong word, and I should have used “coordination” or something.

Just because you aren’t forced to party with people doesn’t mean you aren’t grouped and playing with others in a DE, nor does it mean you can’t party with people if you want to. You’re only limiting yourself. All that’s been removed is the mechanical aspect of grouping.

Forcing people to group doesn’t encourage social interaction. I don’t know why anyone who has been playing MMOs for awhile would think otherwise. Most of your social interaction will come from talking with people that are your friends or in your guild.

I get this feeling its a different generation from myself that has no concept of how to play a game without being forced and lead around.

The game is severely in need of matchmaking and party features. Joining guilds for me just hasn’t worked. By comparison, all of the guilds I have joined have been frustrating inactive. I join a fresh new guild with 200 players, constantly active and doing dungeons, WvW, PvP and donkey vs donkey. Apparently. What I get is me playing an 18 hour day during the holidays and being lucky to see 2 players online for that entire day.

Urthona.3198:

MrQuizzles.6823:

I think the best part of GW2 is the large amount of ad-hoc cooperation between players. It’s something I’ve never before seen in an MMO setting. In most MMOs, you largely stay by yourself unless you’re forming a group to accomplish something. Random folk are often seen as nuisances to someone doing quests. People basically never randomly start working together without any coordination or without using the group mechanic.

That’s completely different in GW2 because it’s there’s no reason not to. You might not talk to anyone, but you’re actually interacting with other people far more than almost any other MMO.

True. Perhaps “cooperation” was the wrong word, and I should have used “coordination” or something.

I think zerging would be a better word. But i might be mean and bitter about my world experience outside of southsun.

Urthona.3198:

The best part of GW2 is that it isn’t designed to force player cooperation. This is also the worst part of GW2. For better or for worse, it’s the design choice that sets the game apart. I try to appreciate it for what it is.

Yes, yes, very much yes! Good thing someone mentioned the other side of the coin.

There’s no adventure to do with your friends in GW2, unless you enjoy dungeons. There’s no story missions like GW1. There’s no party-driven content outside of dungeons or pvp. There’s no means to stick with a friend and both follow a story or explore the world in a way that does not waste our time.

There’s no obstacles to overcome with a cooperative group through general pve, outside of a few scattered champions.

By giving you the option of playing solo, GW2 takes from you the option of doing party content. At first, GW2’s general pve seems to appeal to both types of players, but in the end, it handles everything to solo players and forgets players who love parties.

I feel forced to NOT joining a party because doing somebody else’s story instance won’t advance mine’s, because exploring the world with other players is a mess, as they have done different hearts than me, and because it’s not even needed, so most players will simply ignore their party – if they even join in one – if they ever get an invite.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Urthona.3198:

The best part of GW2 is that it isn’t designed to force player cooperation. This is also the worst part of GW2. For better or for worse, it’s the design choice that sets the game apart. I try to appreciate it for what it is.

Yes, yes, very much yes! Good thing someone mentioned the other side of the coin.

There’s no adventure to do with your friends in GW2, unless you enjoy dungeons. There’s no story missions like GW1. There’s no party-driven content outside of dungeons or pvp. There’s no means to stick with a friend and both follow a story or explore the world in a way that does not waste our time.

There’s no obstacles to overcome with a cooperative group through general pve, outside of a few scattered champions.

By giving you the option of playing solo, GW2 takes from you the option of doing party content. At first, GW2’s general pve seems to appeal to both types of players, but in the end, it handles everything to solo players and forgets players who love parties.

I feel forced to NOT joining a party because doing somebody else’s story instance won’t advance mine’s, because exploring the world with other players is a mess, as they have done different hearts than me, and because it’s not even needed, so most players will simply ignore their party – if they even join in one – if they ever get an invite.

Exceptional post so im not alone here.
This is good to know maybe Anet will get on this.

I’m not actually pushing for a change. There are plenty of MMOs with forced grouping, but not many that let you be a lone wolf when it comes to end game content. I’m at a stage in my life where I can’t really commit to a particular schedule or group of players, and the current design lets me keep gaming in a way that otherwise wouldn’t be possible.

I agree 100% that the negative results of that design are there, though, and if I were still able to raid actively I’d probably find another game.

One of the reasons for why the monthly content updates have been so fun, it’s because they actually make people group together. Now if only Anet could spread this kind of content all over pve….

The chat is usually more lively when players have trouble with something and need someone else’s help.

EDIT:

@Urthona,
But why not have content balanced for both type of players, instead of just a portion of them? Afterall, dungeons and champions do exist, so Anet’s intentions are there. It just so happens that there’s too much for solo, and too little for groups.

I only want to play with friends, guildies and other trusted people. When those people are offline, I like that I can do most things solo.

One of my friends and I have been keeping one of our Alts in sync, doing the same story missions together whilst chatting over VOIP. Is it necessary? No. But it’s more fun than doing the story solo, so we like it.

Rieselle.5079:

I only want to play with friends, guildies and other trusted people. When those people are offline, I like that I can do most things solo.

One of my friends and I have been keeping one of our Alts in sync, doing the same story missions together whilst chatting over VOIP. Is it necessary? No. But it’s more fun than doing the story solo, so we like it.

That keeps you isolated from making new friends and forming new alliances. That’s mmo’s are at its core about. Meeting new players and playing together. Over 1027 hours i have 13friends on my list….

Only 13…and im extremely sociable.

I completely agree with what’s being said.

This really is sad for me because, all my irl friends have stopped playing Gw2 like months ago and every guild I join either ends up dying or is so big that no one speaks to each other and it’s more like a “raid” squad who only talk when WvWvW is invovled.

As a person who really enjoys the role of a support in mmos i’ve kinda been left out here, with everyone being so independent I don’t get asked to help or people don’t feel the need to interact. One thing I loved about mmos when playing was walking around to a lower level area or just walking around my level area and helping people and feeling needed.

In GW2 people are not “needed” for most of the content so it becomes a game where the only time people interact are when they are forced to like when going dungeons. An example, go to Orr and find a world boss, you will find people zerging the boss 99% of the people attacking that boss are not in a party because it isn’t needed, therefore people don’t talk or party or interact, people simply zerg and kill the boss then leave.

Oh yes, this lack of party-driven content also leads to a lot of support builds becoming pointless. Most of pve’s builds have degenerated into DPS + some defense, or DPS + Magic Find, because there’s no reason to pick anything else unless you want to grind or explore at a slower pace.

Drago: if they ever implement build swapping, that will help.

Re: quiet ones: my server usually always has someone chattering except maybe at very early morning hours (3-4 am and generally only in out of the way zones).

Genesis.5169:

I really wanted to defend GW2 I got all my friends to play and then they pretty much told me something that changed my mind about this game.

“Too much stuff here is optional”

You don’t even have to speak to another player in game and you can get full Exotics. You don’t even have to talk to anyone and you get credit for Boss DE’s and WvW. I’m starting to notice i rarely party with anyone outside of dungeons. I don’t party with anyone in WvW either, spvpp doesn’t really count.

This entire game is solable and since it is no one communicates outside of LA.

Anyone getting this feel i’m starting to feel that the MM in MMO is lost for GW2.

I realized this early on, so quit at about level 36 and haven’t looked back.

This isn’t an MMO – it’s a single player game that you play along side others, not WITH others.

Vorch.2985:

The game has as much grouped content as you and those you surround yourself with (guild and friends) care to do

There’s not one thing my guild can do in this game together. Not one single thing. Nothing that requires us to act as a team, that’s for sure.

Zeldain.5710:

I realized this early on, so quit at about level 36 and haven’t looked back.

This isn’t an MMO – it’s a single player game that you play along side others, not WITH others.

Ooo level 36, you must know so much about how this game works..

And now you sit on here trolling the forums, way to not look back bro!

Erasculio.2914:

Genesis.5169:

“Too much stuff here is optional”

Yes.

The game gives you the option of talking to people, not when you are forced to, but rather when you want to.

Some people need games to force them to be social, or they will not talk to anyone.
It’s not GW2’s problem if some people is socially awkward.
MMOs are not made to force sociality, but to create an environment that allows it – normal people want freedom of choice in a game, not be forced to do anything.

Gw2 has good base to build on. I would personally add open world bosses pvp where guilds fights over the loot (some tier 6 mats, or tokens that could make the exo for legendary) This would bring alot communication and guilds would actually get meaning. There should be several world bosses (minor, major, superior) so that big growd guilds would go after the big fish and starting guilds for the smaller ones. Ofcourse, winner takes it all!

Zeldain.5710:

Genesis.5169:

I really wanted to defend GW2 I got all my friends to play and then they pretty much told me something that changed my mind about this game.

“Too much stuff here is optional”

You don’t even have to speak to another player in game and you can get full Exotics. You don’t even have to talk to anyone and you get credit for Boss DE’s and WvW. I’m starting to notice i rarely party with anyone outside of dungeons. I don’t party with anyone in WvW either, spvpp doesn’t really count.

This entire game is solable and since it is no one communicates outside of LA.

Anyone getting this feel i’m starting to feel that the MM in MMO is lost for GW2.

I realized this early on, so quit at about level 36 and haven’t looked back.

This isn’t an MMO – it’s a single player game that you play along side others, not WITH others.

If you quit, why are you here?

And secondly, level 36? You have one dungeon available to you that you probably didn’t even do. And quite frankly, I cannot think of any MMOs currently that getting to less than half of the max level will have you flooded with group content that needs doing.

Rhysati.4932:

Zeldain.5710:

Genesis.5169:

I really wanted to defend GW2 I got all my friends to play and then they pretty much told me something that changed my mind about this game.

“Too much stuff here is optional”

You don’t even have to speak to another player in game and you can get full Exotics. You don’t even have to talk to anyone and you get credit for Boss DE’s and WvW. I’m starting to notice i rarely party with anyone outside of dungeons. I don’t party with anyone in WvW either, spvpp doesn’t really count.

This entire game is solable and since it is no one communicates outside of LA.

Anyone getting this feel i’m starting to feel that the MM in MMO is lost for GW2.

I realized this early on, so quit at about level 36 and haven’t looked back.

This isn’t an MMO – it’s a single player game that you play along side others, not WITH others.

If you quit, why are you here?

And secondly, level 36? You have one dungeon available to you that you probably didn’t even do. And quite frankly, I cannot think of any MMOs currently that getting to less than half of the max level will have you flooded with group content that needs doing.

Uh, it’s pretty clear I made the right choice. Everyone acknowledges there is no group content.

Aren’t most MMORPGs soloable outside of dungeons/instances? Or did I just play the wrong ones?

I like it’s drop in feel. It fills gaps in my life that would otherwise be filled with uncompleted tasks in other videogames, that may not be completable in the time I have.

BiJay.9830:

Aren’t most MMORPGs soloable outside of dungeons/instances? Or did I just play the wrong ones?

There is no group content, that’s the problem.

OLG = Offline Game?

as oppose to…

OLG = Online Game?

Zeldain.5710:

BiJay.9830:

Aren’t most MMORPGs soloable outside of dungeons/instances? Or did I just play the wrong ones?

There is no group content, that’s the problem.

Other than everything in the game designed around dynamic group play, instances, fractals and group events, nope, the game has no group content, you know, other than the entire game.

GW1: Skill needed, tons of grouping and working together perfectly as a team
GW2: Random skill usage, facerolling keyboard, join party just for some extra dmg, GG

Bastion.2457:

Zeldain.5710:

BiJay.9830:

Aren’t most MMORPGs soloable outside of dungeons/instances? Or did I just play the wrong ones?

There is no group content, that’s the problem.

Other than everything in the game designed around dynamic group play, instances, fractals and group events, nope, the game has no group content, you know, other than the entire game.

Nope.

Group content. Content my guild can do. Content that challenges us a team.

There is none of that. Zero.

World zerg events are not group content. Dungeons, as poorly designed as they are, might be group content, but what guild has 5 people in it? Not any real MMO guild, that’s for sure.

there is planty of group content there is just no good large scale group content. we dont needs raids persay but we do need somthing to replace rade’s ((with all the GW2 standers of every one getting there own loot at the end ETC))

Maybe I’m just strange, but the lack of forcing me to form groups only increased my desire to communicate with people.

I played GW1 and other games out there where it made more sense to group up with people and then play out the game.
Nearly every time that happened I tried to solo even if it wasn’t advantageous.

However GW2 doesn’t care if I group or not.
Do I go around world zerging? Yes.
Do I help heal people who are down? Nearly every time.
Do I party up with someone if they are new and need help? I actually do enjoy this now.
Do I want to run dungeons now? For the first time in years, absolutely.

Does this mean the game is perfect? No, but it has made me a bit more sociable online to the point I’m not auto-rejecting guild invites from people I know and party with whenever possible.

You generally get less chat in games that require more effort to play, I can chat if i’m autoattacking, but in these more action oriented modern mmos it can be hard to get a space to chat.

Sometimes I relish the few times I get to use my autorun key :p

I remember when people had to sit around a campfire and spend time eating, a little downtime isn’t such a horrible thing imo…