Guild Wars 2

A free for all PvP server, before I start let me say that I came from a MMO timeline when MMO’s where a nerds best keept secret, 13 years ago I started playing a MMO called Asheron’s Call and played on a server called Darktide, this server was a Free for all server where one could kill anyone at will and loot there bodies, the server over time developed a player driven social structure due to the nature of the server, Players Killers (PK) vs Anti-Players killers (Anti) needless to say this was the most fun I have ever had in a MMO and I have been chasing that feeling now for 13 years and nothing comes close.

In a game like GW2 the World map would make the perfect play ground for a FFA server with all the nooks and crannies, I would love for GW2 to add just one server with this rule set, as to avoid Aoe damage you can make it that players in your party or rep’n a guild can not be hurt by friendly fire, this would help create a tight community and very strong guild orders.

EDIT:
Added a video: History of Asheron’s Call Darktide by Ripperx from MMORPG.COM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1wVKWWkp0hU#!

I feel your pain brother. I played Ultima Online for many years and still would if the player base was bigger and the graphs a bit better. Anyways, i miss the good old days, where you always had to watch yourself for player killers (PKs) and a chance of being looted.

All the other mmos i played, i always choose (if possible) a pvp server, where you can get attacked at anytime. GW lacks that, heck, the game doesn’t offer PVE player to player challenge, so thats why i prefer wvwvw over spvp. However, even if you gain random stuff and badges, i still miss the option of looting your enemy.

How come everyone feels the need to post there gaming history ?

W v W v W is a FFA server in a kinda way

I just get a kick out of all the players who come to a new game, and complain that it is not like the game they left and want it changed so it’s like thier old game.
Makes absolutly no sense at all as it seems all they want is ever game to be a clone of every other game with nothing new or original. I think it must be something to do with not being able to adjust to a new game, so they just want the game to adapt to them instead.

Decrypter.1785:

How come everyone feels the need to post there gaming history ?

W v W v W is a FFA server in a kinda way

Not at all, true FFA means your best buddy can kill you, the only thing keeping you alive is your whits and respect for one another, WvWvW is nice but but no FFA.

WvWvW is really a massive 2004 World of Warcraft Alterac Valley when fights use to last for 2-3 days before the carebear nerf that we see today.

Rules could be simple and without breaking lore for GW2:
1. Attacking in a town will have the guards on your butt.
2. To avoid problems in PvE events make it that as soon at a player attacks a world boss or is in the same event that those playes can not attack each other untill that event is over,
3. Players in your guild that are currently rep’n can not be attacked.
4. Players in you party can not be attacked.
5. Killing a player will drop a karma, small amount currency and non account bound items, gathering mats, unbound gear ect.
5. In the mist players can not attack one another.
6. WvWvW All players are on the same team, so nothing changes for WvWvW.

With those simple rules we can have a FFA server in Gw2 without breaking lore

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

I just get a kick out of all the players who come to a new game, and complain that it is not like the game they left and want it changed so it’s like thier old game.
Makes absolutly no sense at all as it seems all they want is ever game to be a clone of every other game with nothing new or original. I think it must be something to do with not being able to adjust to a new game, so they just want the game to adapt to them instead.

What are you talking about, adding one server with a different rule set isn’t like asking for a game revamp, also I fail to see the problem with trying to make the game more enjoyable for all types of players, if a players dislike FFA then they have a choice not to join that server type, but there are many that do and adding one server with a FFA rule set can only do the game good.

P.S every MMO game is a clone of one another, and if you really want to get pickie ALL MMO’s are clones of games like M59,UO,AC & EQ , that being said GW2’s PvP is a clone of Dark age of Camlot’s RvR, and there PvE is a clone of old school sandbox questing to some degree, asking for more options is a great thing for a MMO game, all great games need the community to help, a perfect example of this is Rift, thee players wanted housing they got freaking dimensions, my point is asking for things to help make the game more enjoyable to the masses means everyone prospers in the long run.

This is how said server would play out

1) 2000 people would jump on it, 1000 of them would make thieves and go to Lion’s Arch (assumed safe zone). Buy gems and level up to 80 in 4 hours doing crafting.

2) 500 of them would then scatter out to all the newbie zones and kill any level 1 that walks into the zone repeatedly giving new characters no chance to level.

3) Every subsequent new person would quit immediately, complain on these forums, and go back to their original server.

4) The servers population would be dead within 2 days of release.

This is just impossible. GW2 is set from the ground up not to be a loss friendly(carebear) game. Looting a legendary? Yeah, not gonna happen.

If you want FFA PVP, play EvE.

Again, no one if forcing you to join a FFA server, don’t like the rule set, done play, as for looting, I said non bound items, that being unequipped BoA items, karma, small coin or crafting items.

I never understood why people get so kitten when players ask for something that will not effect those players that don’t like it one bit, How is a server for players that enjoy this type of play hurting you?

I feel this is some type of possessive personality disorder effecting players when it comes to games, I mean I can see if players asked for a change to all servers that it will indeed effect others that do not wish to partake, but in the case for a FFA server for those that enjoy this play and players getting mad over it as if it in some way is forcing them to partake in it, is a bit weird.

Warjin.8942:

Again, no one if forcing you to join a FFA server, don’t like the rule set, done play, as for looting, I said non bound items, that being unequipped BoA items, karma, small coin or crafting items.

I never understood why people get so kitten when players ask for something that will not effect those players that don’t like it one bit, How is a server for players that enjoy this type of play hurting you?

I feel this is some type of possessive personality disorder effecting players when it comes to games, I mean I can see if players asked for a change to all servers that it will indeed effect others that do not wish to partake, but in the case for a FFA server for those that enjoy this play and players getting mad over it as if it in some way is forcing them to partake in it, is a bit weird.

You’re over-simplifying the change. GW2 PvE is focused on carrots on a stick with “progression” as the main purpose. What this attracts are farmers who will grind for whatever is the next shiny. These are also players who hate losing anything at all, because it sets them back on the “progression” line.

All those FFA PVP games do not have this same “progression” thing. That’s why you can kill others and loot them, loot everything, even, and it will still be alright, because it’s comparatively easier in those games to attain meta-level equipments and they (usually) can at least keep their skillset or tools to survive.

In order for Anet to introduce a FFA PVP server, they have to make it so FFA PVP actually works for that server, this means overhauling the PvE system (or at least introduce repurcussions for crime), and it eats into development time for the new content that the other servers should be getting. There’s enough complaining about updates not coming fast enough in the forums already. Anything worst will just be bad news for Anet.

Peetee.9406:

This is how said server would play out

1) 2000 people would jump on it, 1000 of them would make thieves and go to Lion’s Arch (assumed safe zone). Buy gems and level up to 80 in 4 hours doing crafting.

2) 500 of them would then scatter out to all the newbie zones and kill any level 1 that walks into the zone repeatedly giving new characters no chance to level.

3) Every subsequent new person would quit immediately, complain on these forums, and go back to their original server.

4) The servers population would be dead within 2 days of release.

This is pretty much what happened in UO. They started with all servers being FFA, then changed it so you could choose between a FFA map and a non-PVP map because so many people complained that the game was unplayable for anyone except PKers.

For a short time the only people in the FFA map were groups of PKers and newbies who didn’t know to switch over. Then they changed it so new characters started in the no-PVP map and the FFA one was dead.

I started just after that second change and I was always told never, ever to switch to the FFA map because there was absolutely no up-side to it. But when I got curious and did try it I never saw anyone. Why would I? There were no newbies to take advantage of and people who wanted to 1v1 or whatever could do it in the PVP arenas without risking griefers. Said griefers and PKers didn’t have enough victims to be worth their time.

Peetee.9406:

This is how said server would play out

1) 2000 people would jump on it, 1000 of them would make thieves and go to Lion’s Arch (assumed safe zone). Buy gems and level up to 80 in 4 hours doing crafting.

2) 500 of them would then scatter out to all the newbie zones and kill any level 1 that walks into the zone repeatedly giving new characters no chance to level.

3) Every subsequent new person would quit immediately, complain on these forums, and go back to their original server.

4) The servers population would be dead within 2 days of release.

Not all players will quit, ,EvE as we speak has 450k active subs, DarkFall 1.0 had 50kish, just saying there is a market out there, if a game like GW2 offers it they will not only grab GW2 fans but those type of players, alot of FPS players, and new people that never tryed such a game type and might fall in love with the thrill, I am willing to bet my account that if GW2 adds a FFA server that server load would be full.

Back when I played Asheron’s Call, they had like 10 servers 9 of those PvE only and 1 FFA PvP server, guess what server had the highest pop?

I also remember EQ1 had a FFA server called Rallos Zek that I played on for about a year and loved it, but at that time WoW was coming out so I quit those games and played WoW for the early parts of the game, I guess you can say I hung up my FFA shoes to partake in more PvE/raiding MMO.

Now I am playing GW2 and though I love the PvE and the SPvP and I also enjoy WvWvW, but itching for that old feeling that I had from the days of FFA, I want that feeling of fear, never feeling safe, to tell you the truth that’s what got me into MMO’s in the first place besides from the online role playing, it was the thrill of the hunt or hunted, “is this person really your friend? or is he or she going to back stab me?”, those things made MMO’s for me.

The problem is today’s MMO or (post WoW) MMO’s they took that thrill away, not even given the option to join an FFA server, I truly feel if a game like GW2 adds one of those servers they will take the MMO community by storm.

It really hasn’t been done at all by any major AAA MMO developer post WoW, only indie developers do it and do it pretty well with very little following, really how many people besides us avid MMO players even heard of EvE online or DarkFall and they pretty much have the market when it comes to FFA, now picture if a game like GW2, Swtor or even WoW drops the bomb shell and adds a FFA server………. It’s good game to the rest because the first AAA MMO developer that adds a FFA server would become the new king of MMO’s and if it’s WoW, you can pretty much kiss all other theme parked MMO’s goodby because they surpass 15 million subs within the first year upon releasing that FFA server, I just hope that it’s GW2.

Heinel.6548:

Warjin.8942:

Again, no one if forcing you to join a FFA server, don’t like the rule set, done play, as for looting, I said non bound items, that being unequipped BoA items, karma, small coin or crafting items.

I never understood why people get so kitten when players ask for something that will not effect those players that don’t like it one bit, How is a server for players that enjoy this type of play hurting you?

I feel this is some type of possessive personality disorder effecting players when it comes to games, I mean I can see if players asked for a change to all servers that it will indeed effect others that do not wish to partake, but in the case for a FFA server for those that enjoy this play and players getting mad over it as if it in some way is forcing them to partake in it, is a bit weird.

You’re over-simplifying the change. GW2 PvE is focused on carrots on a stick with “progression” as the main purpose. What this attracts are farmers who will grind for whatever is the next shiny. These are also players who hate losing anything at all, because it sets them back on the “progression” line.

All those FFA PVP games do not have this same “progression” thing. That’s why you can kill others and loot them, loot everything, even, and it will still be alright, because it’s comparatively easier in those games to attain meta-level equipments and they (usually) can at least keep their skillset or tools to survive.

In order for Anet to introduce a FFA PVP server, they have to make it so FFA PVP actually works for that server, this means overhauling the PvE system (or at least introduce repurcussions for crime), and it eats into development time for the new content that the other servers should be getting. There’s enough complaining about updates not coming fast enough in the forums already. Anything worst will just be bad news for Anet.

Enter at your own risk, they can add a disclaimer like most do that the follow a FFA rule set, so if some unlucky guy gets camped, griefed and loses everything don’t cry, as they knew the risk before joining.

I also like to add that bind on account items would and should be safe, even AC had some gear un-loot-able and real money items off limits, as for karma, coin and unbound items on the other hand should be fair game.

Decrypter.1785:

How come everyone feels the need to post there gaming history ?

W v W v W is a FFA server in a kinda way

Not even close.

Anyway, WvWvW is instanced, not in the open world. It’s a game-mode at best not an emergent world that the OP is looking for.

And I happen to agree with him. Sandbox (of any sort) is the future.

The idea is awesome xD
And yes, I see a lot of problems when you start to think about actually putting it to life~ And yes I have no idea, how to work around those issues, for example those which have been mentioned here in this thread…
But the idea is great xD It will be fun, it might be not for everyone, but it does has it’s spark

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

I just get a kick out of all the players who come to a new game, and complain that it is not like the game they left and want it changed so it’s like thier old game.
Makes absolutly no sense at all as it seems all they want is ever game to be a clone of every other game with nothing new or original. I think it must be something to do with not being able to adjust to a new game, so they just want the game to adapt to them instead.

No, you’re not grasping what’s going on here.

The game as it stands isn’t fun or satisfying to many people as a whole. There are individual features or ideas that are cool, but they either are executed poorly or simply don’t work with the other game systems well.

An example: Weapon swapping is a cool idea, based on situation. Obtaining a legendary works directly against the players desire to use different weapons. Therefore, that’s bad design.

There is stuff like that all over the game design, and even if you don’t realize it, it’s working against your enjoyment of the game.

So, keep in mind: the developers aren’t always right, and the players aren’t always wrong.

Pk is one of the worst things you can have in an mmo.And it again would seperate alot of players,horrible idea.

Warjin.8942:

Again, no one if forcing you to join a FFA server, don’t like the rule set, done play, as for looting, I said non bound items, that being unequipped BoA items, karma, small coin or crafting items.

I never understood why people get so kitten when players ask for something that will not effect those players that don’t like it one bit, How is a server for players that enjoy this type of play hurting you?

I feel this is some type of possessive personality disorder effecting players when it comes to games, I mean I can see if players asked for a change to all servers that it will indeed effect others that do not wish to partake, but in the case for a FFA server for those that enjoy this play and players getting mad over it as if it in some way is forcing them to partake in it, is a bit weird.

I partly agree with this. Why people care if there was an option for a free for all PvP server is a mystery to me also. Simply do not go. However, as it stands right now it does effect all players. It would be a resource drain on the developers to create the server, different rules sets, etc. and for me as an example I would far prefer that resources get spent on battling bots, fixing bugs, and improving the existing game.

If the resources were there to add this server type I would ask for a couple of things. No one can transfer a character to this server type, and if you create a toon on this server type you can not create toons on the other server types (unless you delete all toons on the FFA server). Only reason I would ask for these strict rules is that the people who would go to this server type are really really the people who enjoy that enviroment.

I will tell you something. FFA servers were nice in the past. When you met the same ppl on a server on a daily base, and every player was sort of a nerd because he played a MMO.
Nowadays, there are thousands and thousands of players on a server. Noone knows each other, random ganking has no consequences. Griefing gets out of control, people quit.

To be honest, I would like to have the one or other FFA zone, but I do not expect it to happen, and in the end it is probably for the better…

The biggest issue I see for this type of server would be PVE AoE, you would technically be killing those who are helping you in group events.

I think the idea is a reasonable one for people who would like that sort of thing, but would that number be large enough to warrant a dedicated server for it?

Rustypipes.6238:

The biggest issue I see for this type of server would be PVE AoE, you would technically be killing those who are helping you in group events.

I think the idea is a reasonable one for people who would like that sort of thing, but would that number be large enough to warrant a dedicated server for it?

A few thousand dollars for hardware to satisfy a few thousand players? It’s beyond worth it.

As for the AoE, that’s part of it… if you’re truly playing as a team, and being tactical about it, you will have to avoid that kind of thing. Just as the opposing team would. You’d be forced into switching to weapons that focus on single-target combat more frequently, and that to me is a good thing.

I fully sympathize with you OP. Many MMO players, even those that now qualify as MMO veterans do not understand the beauty of the real pvp mentality, with PKs and antis/or socials. Most of the “new veterans” associate this with the need to grief, camp or troll others which is often found in current pvp games BUT they do not remember the times when that what made communities. PVE was just a way to level up and genuinely not fun, PVP was where the fun was at.
And the communities of time embraced this mentality. I was discussing just that in map chat when I started playing the game, and the general answer I got “if you like pvp, you’re either a wvwer or a griefer…hence gtfo”.

I guess the pvp mentality has switched, since now pks get the best loot from pve, and in the worst scenario possible, simply can ressucitate at the nearest spawn with no penalties. Back then, your gear could be lost forever. It was ruthless but exhilirating.

Back then the top players were often pks, I remember a zerg chasing one guy and the bugger owned us lol. Of course you had great players on the socials’ side, and that led to awesome duels. I remember one of our “heroes” lost the match and we all rushed from the closest safe spot to zerg the pk so he couldn’t steal the loot from our friend xD

Nostalgia…maybe it was 2D but it was fast, and it was furious.

Well, I’ve played my share of asian MMOs with free PvP systems.

And evrytime it all comes to this:
1) Two huge guilds fight zergwars with eachother over one spot over and over. (it would be Cursed Shore in GW2, I suppose)

2) A number of smaller guilds, who will have several squads of people scatteres around popular levelling areas to hunt any lonely noob. Spamming “lol, pwned, we’re da best pvp guilde here!1”

3) A lot of lonely noobs diyng from aforementioned gank-squads, not having any fun, growing bitter, forced to join some guild and hunt another noobs with spite.

There are really few people who actually geniunely enjoy such a system. Not gonna happen.

Zeldain.5710:

As for the AoE, that’s part of it… if you’re truly playing as a team, and being tactical about it, you will have to avoid that kind of thing. Just as the opposing team would. You’d be forced into switching to weapons that focus on single-target combat more frequently, and that to me is a good thing.

I have no general disagreement with the concept of adding a FFA server. I’ve no interest in it whatsoever, but hey, to each his own.

But you can’t just gloss over this AOE component. Why? Because almost every ability that grants boons also grants conditions or does damage. Guardian’s have a heal, for example, that also does damage to enemies standing within it. So…which does it do other players? The current system doesn’t care whether you are grouped or not, so that very least they would have to change some code to make the game recognize whether you are grouped with someone or not as it can’t just apply teams to players like in sPvP or WvW.

So, okay maybe you do that. You apply a grouping system to fix that problem. Fine. But what happens when a group is running around trouncing on randoms? Do these random players that just happen to get attacked by this group have to basically fight FFA against them? A grouped team can buff each other and has no fears of AOEing one another anymore, affectively removing friendly fire for one group while the other still has it.

In the end, those are things that would have to be figured out and I’m not sure that there is really an adequate way of doing so. At least not with the current game mechanics.

I could be wrong but I think a few months ago ANet mentioned how they might (might being a key word) allow players to manage their own FFA PvP servers or something similar.

Pvp as someone said earlier is the worst thing you can put in a mmo and then add loss of items and money you worked for…those games dont work, people have no desire to risk items they won in a game.

In fact only people I ever see ask for this Crap are griefers who never actually go up against people their own level and gank newwbies and lowbies. I have to come to the conculsion that world pvpers and those that request ffa servers are the worst form of human on the planet and are despicibale gamers

Warjin.8942:

A free for all PvP server, before I start let me say that I came from a MMO timeline when MMO’s where a nerds best keept secret, 13 years ago I started playing a MMO called Asheron’s Call and played on a server called Darktide, this server was a Free for all server where one could kill anyone at will and loot there bodies, the server over time developed a player driven social structure due to the nature of the server, Players Killers (PK) vs Anti-Players killers (Anti) needless to say this was the most fun I have ever had in a MMO and I have been chasing that feeling now for 13 years and nothing comes close.

In a game like GW2 the World map would make the perfect play ground for a FFA server with all the nooks and crannies, I would love for GW2 to add just one server with this rule set, as to avoid Aoe damage you can make it that players in your party or rep’n a guild can not be hurt by friendly fire, this would help create a tight community and very strong guild orders.

EDIT:
Added a video: History of Asheron’s Call Darktide by Ripperx from MMORPG.COM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1wVKWWkp0hU#!

Nice, I played Morningthaw mostly, but had hella chars on DT just cause of the crazy PvP hijinks. Like seriously, in Darktide it was survival until you could level high enough to do any damage. I remember huddling with other lowbies grinding mobs to level, always looking over our shoulders, or finding that good samaritan high level char who protected you and power leveled you with dillos and tuskers.

AC was a grindfest of the best kind. Spend hours running back and forth between spawns and loved every second of it. (people who complain about current games being grindy I just lol now).

EDIT: I still have nightmares about those tuskers. Hear that thunderous pounding coming towards you. Gives me chills.

No an open PvP server will not hurt your hand holding PVE server.
No you do not have to join if you do not like it.
No you will not get ganked by level 80s because of the level correction.

An average player who does not feel fulfilment from a game will not go to post on forums about what they would like or what they expected. They will pack their bags and go to play another game, resulting in loss of income and loss of a player on a server.

at OP: I feel your pain. Here is a link to a thread I started a while ago about a FFA PvP server, which was met with a lot of negativity such as “this will never work stop suggesting things to cater to more people” and more hostile responses, as if people are scared of such an idea. Only a few understood the purpose of this and what needs it would meet, rather than think in the very narrow minded fashion that modern games seem to have. Here is the detailed discussion with the responses and counter-arguments.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Open-world-PvP-server/first#post901714

Why do I think that an open PvP server would work in GW2:

• It would add some spice to map of the game, weather you and your guild is defending access to a dungeon or if you are playing as a “hunter” or exploring and running into a member of an enemy guild. People would enjoy PvP would enjoy this.
• The max level and gear is very easy to get, and the game is not very heavily gear dependant anyways. The level correction in areas solves the level gap.
• The level correction in areas that are below 80 would prevent high level players from dominating a lower level spot or jumping unsuspecting level 20s.
• The general combat system is great for such thing
• The code for this is almost done, the staff would just have to tweak the code used in WvsW.
• Somewhat like in Factions, guilds could own towns and fight over them once a week or so (kind of like sieges on a castle). They would get guild rep from this, but the town would remain accessible for others (for personal story, NPCs, way points etc)

How it would work to make it fair to the newbie:

• On selecting server a big warning pop up would come up warning the player that this is an open pvp server, and if they do not want it they can choose any other of the current GW2 servers
• No pvp inside of towns unless it is in the weekly siege state. In that case the way points would become contested.
• No pvp in starting areas (such as Queensdale on the human side)
• Some kind of penalty for killing a target who is not defending himself (in L2 there was negative Karma, which would make you an open target to kill to anyone. Also, if you have negative Karma NPCs would not talk to you or offer services) and some kind of way to remove it (trade in positive Karma or do some quest, Im sure Anet can think of something else as well)
• Guild wars system, where if a guild wants to PvP more, they can declare a war on another guild (amount of wars is limited) and if the other declares war back, they are open to kill each other at all times with no negative re-precautions.

• Why WvsW does’t do it?*
• It is too Zerg based. People do not go there unless they intend to do nothing but PvP, which burns the player out of it quicker
• It does not have the thrill of open PvP, which is created by surprise or the joy of hunting a target.
• There is nothing personal about it, while in open world PvP everything becomes personal very quick. One random kill can affect the server’s politics and quickly create enemies as well as friendship among players.

I am currently shopping for a new game because GW2 is starting to get stale with a feeling like there is nothing to do (while there is tons to do, but it all seems pointless to me). If a PvP server was introduced I believe GW2 would get a breath of fresh air into it.

MorceluLebeau.5109:

Pvp as someone said earlier is the worst thing you can put in a mmo and then add loss of items and money you worked for…those games dont work, people have no desire to risk items they won in a game.

In fact only people I ever see ask for this Crap are griefers who never actually go up against people their own level and gank newwbies and lowbies. I have to come to the conculsion that world pvpers and those that request ffa servers are the worst form of human on the planet and are despicibale gamers

http://www.eveonline.com/
10 years strong, 450k players World wide, full PvP loot system, so please don’t tell me people have no desire to risk items they won in game.

The problem is there are 2 typs of MMO players, that being:

a. the per WoW MMO’s players where MMORPGS where just that, a online role playing world that lets players live there fantasy, risk and reward.
b. Post WoW MMO players that are pretty much ex-console players that made the jump to PC/Mac gaming and needed instant glorification or they would just quit and cry like they did when they played console games with there friends.

My point being, AAA MMO companies today sold out to big business and did nothing but turn MMO games to nothing more then a computer console game with co-op features, and called it a MMO.

I have the solution, I was just watching a Elder Scrolls Online: What to Expect Video(I will be playing ES:O along with GW2 and some DayZ now that I got a new video card.) and it is like this(for all you Skyrim guys you already know this lol) there are three zones which belong to three factions,,and Cyrodil in the middle is a area where there is constantly war(exactly like WvWvW). Now there is no factions in GW2 which actually supports FFA since there is no reason for you to be friendly to the other person because of their character(even though all the races work together).Now I started Runescape in ‘04 and have been playing ever since(on and off, I have 400-450 days of gamplay in total and quit for like 2 years in total lol) and just quit in the summer of this year due to how crap it became even though there is still 90kish people online at a time which is probaly about the same as GW2 which is just a new MMO and will grow big for sure due to the way it is designed(used to be 110k+ btw for runescape and it says on the main website how many people are online >.>the combat overhaul destroyed the game) . Now RS is that MMORPG that you and your grandma have either heard about or played so no need to explain much but there is a zone called the Wilderness which used to be booming back in the day when graphics didn’t matter and gameplay did and now its trash.
GW2 just sucked every good thing out of MMORPG’s and made it into one amazing game, now Tyria can have another zone added to it or take away some part of it and make it into a complete wasteland that allows open-world PVP Players who go here beclome upgraded to level 80 and get new gear and all that kitten. This will allow it on every server and there will be no killing people on spawn or that crap, there should also be amazing bosses,quests and dynamic events that offer great items and xp but you are at a very high risk of dying. I think you should be able to betray people in your guild or party but AoE should not affect them, since I always find it fun dogpiling BSers but that’s just me. The area should be a combination of the upcoming ES:O Cyrodil and RS wilderness., there should be oppurtunity for you to build forts in territory that you take from other parties,guilds or maybe even solo players and that should be like your little place in the world that YOU and your friends own, until it gets attacked. Whoever has the most territory(there should be abandoned cities or borders that are up for grabs) should be the current emperor(if it is more then one player it should be the leader of that group and the rest will be the empire)
Seige weapons should be available for you to buy, make or repair from the cities you discover.

MorceluLebeau.5109:

Pvp as someone said earlier is the worst thing you can put in a mmo and then add loss of items and money you worked for…those games dont work, people have no desire to risk items they won in a game.

In fact only people I ever see ask for this Crap are griefers who never actually go up against people their own level and gank newwbies and lowbies. I have to come to the conculsion that world pvpers and those that request ffa servers are the worst form of human on the planet and are despicibale gamers

Runescape? Most popular free MMORPG and second(probaly third now to GW2 after the “Evolution of Combat” BS) most popular MMORPG…. I rest my case.
Oh and you sir are a complete pu…sorry I called you sir,Ma’am

I came from an mmo where there was world pvp, it was my first mmo and the pvp imo was sick. Here’s how it would work.

Players between 1-30 would be safe from PK

Pkers have certain amount of people they can kill each day, when you go over the limit your name will become red “murderer” and anyone can attack you, and the chance for you to drop items greatly increase. Said pkers with the “murderer” statue have to log in for 10hr before the statue goes away.

Every player will have a hit list “who you killed, and who killed you” if you’ve been killed by someone who’s higher lvl than you, or if you need help you can find someone to help you, click on the name and you and the person who’s helping you will be teleport to the pker location for a chance to kill him. You have only one chance to kill name, if you’ve been killed by the same person again, you can teleport to him again with you’re ally to gank him.

No interest whatsoever in a server like this. Played Everquest for a number of years on Rallos Zek, which was like that and it does nothing but bring griefers and campers out in droves. No thanks. The game is fine the way it is. Want FFA, go play WvW.

tasaunders.3746:

No interest whatsoever in a server like this. Played Everquest for a number of years on Rallos Zek, which was like that and it does nothing but bring griefers and campers out in droves. No thanks. The game is fine the way it is. Want FFA, go play WvW.

Coming from Rallos Zek you of anyone should understand it’s appeal , sure maybe it wasn’t for you but you can’t deny that this type of play is what’s missing from today’s modern MMO’s. or the option to play this way.

Yes there will be griefs, yes there will be zerg fest but that’s what people signed up for, the thrill of being in danger from the moment you log on to the time you log off, the feel of living in a world full of threats is the appeal.

No one is asking for Gw2 to change it’s core game play, just add 1 simple server for those that do wish to partake in this play style.

I’m sure if A-net puts there minds to it they can come up with a system that will work with lore in GW2.

Think of it like this, I live in the USA, and my fellow Americans try to get along but as we all know that isn’t that case, here we have gangs vs gangs, person vs person, right wing vs left wing, racism, ect. we as a people are always at odds with each other, and as sad as it is we kill each other over it, when 9/11 happen we all stood together for that brief moment in history to unite under one goal, but the violence didn’t stop.

My point is in GW2 the same holds true, sure we are united to kill the world eating dragons but that does not mean the every day problems, politics, racism and violence stopped, GW2 like any world has problems, killing, violence, towards one another, that being said a FFA server makes more sense lore wise then the standers servers where everyone is holding hands monster hunting or fight off invaders from parallel dimensions. (WvWvW)

The residents of GW2 have a common goal but that does not mean the every days problems stopped.

This is the core difference between today’s MMO’s vs yesterday’s MMO’s, the lack of fantasy realism, or as us old school MMO player’s call it, MMO, “Role Playing Games”

yes please. as much as i like the pve in this game, an option to have ffa pking on top of it would just take it to a whole different level of awesome.

and being a separate server that wouldn’t affect anyone that didn’t like it, i’m completely failing to see why the carebears are opposing it. it wouldn’t even effect you guys, you could hide all you want in ur pve servers while us “scary terrible griefers” went and had our oldschool fun completely away from you

Warjin.8942:

A free for all PvP server, before I start let me say that I came from a MMO timeline when MMO’s where a nerds best keept secret, 13 years ago I started playing a MMO called Asheron’s Call and played on a server called Darktide, this server was a Free for all server where one could kill anyone at will and loot there bodies, the server over time developed a player driven social structure due to the nature of the server, Players Killers (PK) vs Anti-Players killers (Anti) needless to say this was the most fun I have ever had in a MMO and I have been chasing that feeling now for 13 years and nothing comes close.

In a game like GW2 the World map would make the perfect play ground for a FFA server with all the nooks and crannies, I would love for GW2 to add just one server with this rule set, as to avoid Aoe damage you can make it that players in your party or rep’n a guild can not be hurt by friendly fire, this would help create a tight community and very strong guild orders.

EDIT:
Added a video: History of Asheron’s Call Darktide by Ripperx from MMORPG.COM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1wVKWWkp0hU#!

Never going to happen, this game is made to be accessible and casual to an extreme, the amount of babying the players of this game get is absurd, there will never be a FFA pvp server for this game because the remaining playerbase isn’t a good market for it.

To all the people bashing the OP, I’m guessing he purchased his game under the pretense it was a PvP MMO (which it was marketed as) he has every right to be expecting more from the product he received.

And let’s also be honest here, this game is still riddled with bugs and broken mechanics/content, fixing the current game should be a far higher priority than appeasing the PvP crowd which they have already largely alienated.

Balance, my fellow players. Balance.

Ignoring all the other factors mentioned, this game is not balanced for FFA PVP. If they added such a thing, it would boil down to one of two scenarios:

1. Anet does nothing to balance FFA combat. This means FFA combat sucks for everyone who is not one of three or so builds, which could change at any given patch. Open-world PVP ultimately becomes predictable and frustrating.

2. Anet rebalances combat to accommodate FFA. Suddenly, everyone is affected by the new server. PVE balance suffers because the priority is no longer PVE or even WvW, but open-world PVP.

Ultimately, you’re only going to find good FFA in a game that’s actually devoted to it. GW2 is not that game, and it could not become that game without a massive overhaul the alienates a large portion (if not the majority) of the current playerbase.

I am SO happy GW2 did away with the PK system. I despise killing fellow players and would rather cooperate with them with our common goals. In fact, this is one of GW2’s best features: mostly cooperation vs merciless competition.

And in all honesty, stating “carebears” as a pejorative term is rather ridiculous-to care is good (even in a game), and saying that’s a negative only makes people look bas, as in selfish. Never saw the fun in killing some other player and steling his/her loot. I am a proud “carebear”, because I cannot envision myself as its merciless, opportunistic opposite.

I don’t think it would be implemented even as a separate server for those who like that sort of thing, because I think it’s one of the things ANet is against and don’t want the game to be any part of.

I am sorry if the above sounded harsh-yes, it’s your right to love PK systems, but I honestly don’t believe GW2 is for you if you are hoping for such a system. Not that you are necessarily wrong in wishing for it, but GW2 will never be that type of game (and as some said, it would alienate SO many players, “carebears” or otherwise, even if it was implemented via an optional server only.)

WvWvW is good enough for me if I want to “hunt down” player characters-and I don’t even enjoy that play mode that much, quite honestly (it’s fun, but not as much as PvE stuff for me.)

Urthona.3198:

Balance, my fellow players. Balance.

Ignoring all the other factors mentioned, this game is not balanced for FFA PVP. If they added such a thing, it would boil down to one of two scenarios:

1. Anet does nothing to balance FFA combat. This means FFA combat sucks for everyone who is not one of three or so builds, which could change at any given patch. Open-world PVP ultimately becomes predictable and frustrating.

2. Anet rebalances combat to accommodate FFA. Suddenly, everyone is affected by the new server. PVE balance suffers because the priority is no longer PVE or even WvW, but open-world PVP.

Ultimately, you’re only going to find good FFA in a game that’s actually devoted to it. GW2 is not that game, and it could not become that game without a massive overhaul the alienates a large portion (if not the majority) of the current playerbase.

FFA MMO servers tend to be balanced around players being useful in group settings because people form groups out of necessity. Your point still stands though, given the lack of group synergy in this game the classes that are best 1v1 will likely be the best for groups too.

On balance though, lol, this game isn’t even close to balanced for PvE and it won’t be for a long time yet if ever, WvW balance is non-existant as its almost entirely PvD or ZvZ.

But yeah, agreed on the rest of your points, wrong community and wrong design for a FFA game.

Star Ace.5207:

I am SO happy GW2 did away with the PK system. I despise killing fellow players and would rather cooperate with them with our common goals. In fact, this is one of GW2’s best features: mostly cooperation vs merciless competition.

And in all honesty, stating “carebears” as a pejorative term is rather ridiculous-to care is good (even in a game), and saying that’s a negative only makes people look bas, as in selfish. Never saw the fun in killing some other player and steling his/her loot. I am a proud “carebear”, because I cannot envision myself as its merciless, opportunistic opposite.

I don’t think it would be implemented even as a separate server for those who like that sort of thing, because I think it’s one of the things ANet is against and don’t want the game to be any part of.

I am sorry if the above sounded harsh-yes, it’s your right to love PK systems, but I honestly don’t believe GW2 is for you if you are hoping for such a system. Not that you are necessarily wrong in wishing for it, but GW2 will never be that type of game (and as some said, it would alienate SO many players, “carebears” or otherwise, even if it was implemented via an optional server only.)

WvWvW is good enough for me if I want to “hunt down” player characters-and I don’t even enjoy that play mode that much, quite honestly (it’s fun, but not as much as PvE stuff for me.)

Each to their own, this game was designed as a PvE game from the ground up so don’t worry, it’s never going to happen.

On FFA PvP though I think you misunderstand why people find it enjoyable. In sandbox MMO’s there is a sense of risk/reward and accountability for your actions because they are player controlled, repuation actually counts for something, and on top of that it is a far more social experience than any themepark MMO.

Never met someone that doesn’t enjoy being social, the reason themepark MMO’s are so prevalent is because people don’t like being accountable for their actions.

The dev’s long ago said they were against doing this as it leads to tons of greifing and the server splitting into its own sort of factions vs promoting all players to help each other within their own server. The closest thing this game has to this is WvW.

I do miss this as well though :P

While there are more ‘civil’ ways that people go about this sort of thing, the majority of people just grief lowbies or run around in gank squads. Even with level scaling the 80’s would kill everyone in the low areas way too easily. Have you gone back to the level 2 areas at 80? You still 1-3 hit everything.

Having leveled up on vanilla WoW on a pvp server, it was not fun at all. I think it’s the worst thing any MMO could do and I completely disagree with implementing this. Every MMO I’ve played that had this just had hordes of people ganking low levels, this makes the low level people angry at what was done to them, they finally level up and then go gank low levels, rinse, repeat. The only thing open pvp does is encourage hatred between players and really, lore-wise, it doesn’t make any sense at all.

WvW is an acceptable compromise if you ask me.

Three simple solutions to those who want open world ffa pvp.
1) One ffa PvP server. (PvP is dissabled for lower starter areas, for say up to lvl 15 or 20)
2) An option to flag yourself for open world pvp on all servers. You can ONLY attack and kill those who are flagged. 5 min cooldown on flag once activated, reset each time you attack someone. Level restriction system applied.
3) One open world PvP server, with the above flagging and level restrictions system.

Instead of asking to change GW2, I would rather see a FFA PvP game built on this engine with the same combat system and stylized art. I also miss the edginess of constantly looking over my shoulder while exploring or gathering, but I would hate to see FFA server in GW2. Too easily broken, waste of precious resources that are already spread thin catering to sPvP, WvW, PvE and Dungeon content.

This would be a great engine for a new Lineage sequel.

Warjin.8942:

tasaunders.3746:

No interest whatsoever in a server like this. Played Everquest for a number of years on Rallos Zek, which was like that and it does nothing but bring griefers and campers out in droves. No thanks. The game is fine the way it is. Want FFA, go play WvW.

Coming from Rallos Zek you of anyone should understand it’s appeal , sure maybe it wasn’t for you but you can’t deny that this type of play is what’s missing from today’s modern MMO’s. or the option to play this way.

Yes there will be griefs, yes there will be zerg fest but that’s what people signed up for, the thrill of being in danger from the moment you log on to the time you log off, the feel of living in a world full of threats is the appeal.

At the time, I loved it but I got tired of trying to raid on a server like this. Going after Avatar of War was like pulling teeth when you’re racing other guilds and end up in a 3 hour pvp bloodbath, for example. So, I guess from my perspective the time for that kind of play has been and gone.

You do make a good argument about having just one server like this. I think the reason they don’t do this is because it would fragment the way they have the servers setup. You would have a very small percentage of the total players of GW2 on this FFA server, then everybody else on ‘care bear’ servers. You couldn’t overflow to those servers and you would have people not being able to do anything on those servers, because of the overall lack of people they would attract, IMO.

I think if ANet felt they could attract a large enough player base to support two separate server pools, then perhaps they would make FFA servers, but I honestly don’t believe there’d be that much support for it. For me, I’ve all ready experienced heavy competitive play. I’m older now and I’d like to be able to walk away from my computer and answer the phone or help cook dinner or spend time with my wife-to-be, without worrying about getting lolgank ’n camped.

That would be an interesting thing for ANet to poll its player base on though, just to see how many would be behind something like that.

Silver.8023:

While there are more ‘civil’ ways that people go about this sort of thing, the majority of people just grief lowbies or run around in gank squads. Even with level scaling the 80’s would kill everyone in the low areas way too easily. Have you gone back to the level 2 areas at 80? You still 1-3 hit everything.

Having leveled up on vanilla WoW on a pvp server, it was not fun at all. I think it’s the worst thing any MMO could do and I completely disagree with implementing this. Every MMO I’ve played that had this just had hordes of people ganking low levels, this makes the low level people angry at what was done to them, they finally level up and then go gank low levels, rinse, repeat. The only thing open pvp does is encourage hatred between players and really, lore-wise, it doesn’t make any sense at all.

WvW is an acceptable compromise if you ask me.

I will disagree on the statement that on a FFA Pvp server the majority griefs lowbies and runs around in groups for ganks.

To begin with, coming from an MMO with no level correction in areas, I can 1st hand tell you that griefing lowbies that you 1 or 2 hit gets old very fast. Even if you are not countered in any way.

Now most of those lowbies have a high level in their pocket to come and kill the PKer real quick. With the level correction we have in GW2 it will not even be needed as 2-3 lowbies can just smash the griefer if they gang up. But lets use the example of the kid (let’s call him Dave) who just started playing on his 1st character after getting the game as a gift from a distant uncle. And this example is very standard for a PvP MMO both with player’s behavoir and game design (minus the level correction, but that makes it even better). Also there is generally a penalty for killing people who don’t fight back and a reward for killing a PKer.

After the mandatory tutorials, there is the lowbie areas. PvP is usually blocked in the very lowbie areas and becomes available after the “fresh” player has been exposed to the game for some time. In GW2, we can safely assume that PvP would be blocked in the lowbie areas, such as Queensdale on the human side. By the time a player makes it out to LA he has been exposed to many other players and dozens of guild recruiters. Knowing that it is a PvP server Dave will most likely join a guild rather fast, probably by level 15-20 he will have his 1st few friends in a guild.

Once he steps into the PvP areas, lets say he runs into a bored PKer who loves killing lowbies. To begin with the high level player will be level corrected. Once he kills unsuspecting Dave once, Dave will tell his guild that there is a PKer at the bridge. Lets say that Dave cannot just go elsewhere, he is determined to finish a heart. Possile scenarios:

1- The guild will respond and someone (lets name her Rosie) will come to enforce Dave’s location, even if the enforcer is not level 80 in exotics it is already 2 vs 1. They will win since PKer is suffering penalties that usually come with negative reputation. Dave and Rosie are now friends which would unlikely happen if the PK did not occur. Dave’s GW2 gameplay gets better as he has a friend he can rely on. He is also less likely to throw in the towel.

2- Nobody wants /can come to help Dave, so he as a PvPer (he did choose the PvP server) will try to kill the PKer. Once another couple of former victims (let’s say Bob and Mary) sees the fight, he jumps in knowing that together they can overpower the PKer with odds of 3 vs 1. They do so, and all 3 stick together for the heart and the dynamic event since they know it will be safer. They are also now friends, improving their gameplay experience.

3- Nobody is around to help and Guild is quiet. Dave goes to a safe area and shouts “PKer at the bridge”. The level 80s who are getting their 100% of the map and the people who hang around towns waiting for their dungeon group to fill will most likely show interest and will go hunt the PKer, which will improve their game play as they were probably getting bored standing around and waiting for their Fractals 29 group to fill.

This is not something I pulled out of thin air, this is something that usually occurs in PvP games. I am very surprised that I have to break it down as much as this, but I guess not all have had the experience of such games and can only rely on the stereotypes that were made by the guy in Age of Conan (I think this is the game with the guy throwing people of the cliff from a horse? not sure).

Elthuzar.9478:

Instead of asking to change GW2, I would rather see a FFA PvP game built on this engine with the same combat system and stylized art. I also miss the edginess of constantly looking over my shoulder while exploring or gathering, but I would hate to see FFA server in GW2. Too easily broken, waste of precious resources that are already spread thin catering to sPvP, WvW, PvE and Dungeon content.

This would be a great engine for a new Lineage sequel.

Oh gawd yes please. I would still play Lineage if they didn’t ruin it with the Godess update Q.Q

Give it a bit of time, I’m sure they’ll listen sooner or later. Although the PvE side of this game was built for carebears, it can become much more than that if the people that want it keep voicing their opinion day in day out.

Silver.8023:

While there are more ‘civil’ ways that people go about this sort of thing, the majority of people just grief lowbies or run around in gank squads. Even with level scaling the 80’s would kill everyone in the low areas way too easily. Have you gone back to the level 2 areas at 80? You still 1-3 hit everything.

Having leveled up on vanilla WoW on a pvp server, it was not fun at all. I think it’s the worst thing any MMO could do and I completely disagree with implementing this. Every MMO I’ve played that had this just had hordes of people ganking low levels, this makes the low level people angry at what was done to them, they finally level up and then go gank low levels, rinse, repeat. The only thing open pvp does is encourage hatred between players and really, lore-wise, it doesn’t make any sense at all.

WvW is an acceptable compromise if you ask me.

FFA means free for all.

Not knocking your WoW experience but you have no understanding of what a FFA server entails.

Yes, FFA games do have some griefing in it and some people can’t handle it, that is fine. The fact you think FFA PvP only fosters hatred between players tells me you have never actually played a FFA MMO in your life.

People band together in these MMO’s out of necessity, bonds are fare more commonly formed and last a lot longer than they do in themepark MMO’s.

In addition to this, griefers are normally punished very heavily because these MMO’s are player driven and policed, reputation means something.

Haven’t had the time to read everything on this thread, but…

I also fondly remember Ultima Online, but I don’t think we can pull off that sort of PvP setting in Guild Wars 2.

I do support the idea of the server under two conditions:

- PvP is effective as of hitting the level cap: like this, everyone roaming the overworld is on the same footing, lower levels can’t be killed and can’t be prevented from levelling.

and

- No inventory looting. Or, if there is inventory looting, soulbound items + items bought with gems shouldn’t be lootable. Loose stuff like mats and drops and gold can be lootable.