Guild Wars 2

So I’ve already done everything in the game that would be considered “hard” – i.e. all achieves on Aetherpath and fractals lvl 50. While these were fun to do, I’m wondering if there going to add content that is even more difficult than these.

Something on par with GW1 hard mode would be nice, or perhaps something like Domain of Anguish where its a group type raid instance that is actually really difficult to do.

This game is so easy compared to its predecessor, and frankly its way too easy compared to other mmo’s.

As a veteran player I have nothing to work towards anymore and there is very little “Skill Based” Content that gives good exclusive rewards except for Fractals and Aetherpath.

I’d like to see hard jumping puzzles (that don’t allow your friends to teleport you) and instances that reward you with items that cannot be purchased with credit cards.

You are at a late game stage where everything will be easy no matter what. You should have tried Arah explorable on release. Ha! Even guild groups failed.

I have little doubt that the expansion will bring new PvE content (dungeons/sPvP tracks already reward you with tokens that cannot be bought btw). How hard will it be? Not a clue. Its PvE kitten . Its supposed to be easy. Players that want a challenge play WvW… naked.

Why do people always overstate the difficulty of GW1?
The vast majority of the game can be more or less AFK:ed.

There is of course also the part about everything becoming easy after a while when people have learned how to do it.

Id say this game is plenty challenging enough.

Indeed, more challenging content such as Liadri would be nice.

100% agree with the op. I guess for casual gamers the current content is sufficient, but anyone else can see this game lacks challenging endgame content. Don’t get me started on repeatability and rewards, those are both awful too.

Just try to do all Arah paths/Aether and 50 FOTM as necro with PUG groups.
Or run FOTM 43-44(the hardest levels). 50 level is easy.
Hardcore mod: 43-44 level with PUG group as necro.

White Hunter.3416:

Just try to do all Arah paths/Aether and 50 FOTM as necro with PUG groups.
Or run FOTM 43-44(the hardest levels). 50 level is easy.
Hardcore mod: 43-44 level with PUG group as necro.

I have actually done all of the dungeon paths in the game, in addition my main is a necro and I do lvl 50 fractals as well as the ones you’ve mentioned with pugs as both a necro and guardian.

I will admit that 43-44 fractals are very difficult when I did them, but there is no incentive to do these as lvl 50 is easier and gives greater reward.

I also don’t like the idea of self imposed handicaps, I like building up my character and playing to the fullest, If I wanted to make the game harder I could run around with no Armor on, but that seems silly to me.

No, it needs easy stuff actually, some dungeons paths and FotM are too hard.

aophts.9862:

No, it needs easy stuff actually, some dungeons paths and FotM are too kitten

ly hard fractal i can think of is volcanic one. Oh and maitrin with mesmer or f1 spamming guardian.

Have you considered setting conditions to make it harder on yourself?

As a few examples… level a character from 1-80, wearing nothing but Blues/Greens without dying once. If you die you delete the character and start over.

Do a dungeon wearing as little armor as possible, while using only Green rarity weapons.

Etc. There’s plenty of challenges available in this game, it’s just that a lot of people only seem to think linearly.

I mean, I understand wanting harder content, but they can’t make it impossible for casuals to do, so finding ways to make it harder for yourself is the important part of this game.

Ykfox.3825:

Have you considered setting conditions to make it harder on yourself?

As a few examples… level a character from 1-80, wearing nothing but Blues/Greens without dying once. If you die you delete the character and start over.

Do a dungeon wearing as little armor as possible, while using only Green rarity weapons.

Etc. There’s plenty of challenges available in this game, it’s just that a lot of people only seem to think linearly.

I mean, I understand wanting harder content, but they can’t make it impossible for casuals to do, so finding ways to make it harder for yourself is the important part of this game.

I hate this reply. You can go into the easiest game in the world and make it hard for yourself by closing your eyes. That doesnt change the fact that the game is easy as kitten and needs to be balanced. Guild wars 2 already has more than enough casual content its about kitten time they add some hard core PvE content.

lordkrall.7241:

Why do people always overstate the difficulty of GW1? The vast majority of the game can be more or less AFK:ed.

While I can kill most mobs in GW2 by initiating my #1 skill and letting it run its course, this was not true in GW. Vanilla GW was actually a hard game, even before Hard Mode. It got easier due to the later addition of new skills, particularly PvE skills, and the addition of Heroes, who were much more effective than Henchmen. If you don’t believe me, play a new character through Prophecies using only the skills you gain from quests, only gear that drops or you get from collectors, no Droks run for top defense armor, and only Henchmen. In other words, play it like the game was new and this was your first character.

Then, there’s Hard Mode and elite instances. While GW2 dungeon explorables were intended to be the hard content, the difficulty has not persisted the nearly three years since launch — due in part to a practice effect on a particular path, players getting better in general, and nerfs to mobs, especially in paths where 80’s are down-leveled.

If you’re running around in GW in Normal Mode with fully specced Heroes using good builds … sure, a lot of the game got easy. While you could AFK if running the PvE Hero build, Discordway, things generally went better if you called targets and actively assisted your many necros in killing things.

Ykfox.3825:

Have you considered setting conditions to make it harder on yourself?

As a few examples… level a character from 1-80, wearing nothing but Blues/Greens without dying once. If you die you delete the character and start over.

Do a dungeon wearing as little armor as possible, while using only Green rarity weapons.

Etc. There’s plenty of challenges available in this game, it’s just that a lot of people only seem to think linearly.

I mean, I understand wanting harder content, but they can’t make it impossible for casuals to do, so finding ways to make it harder for yourself is the important part of this game.

Yes I could make the game harder for myself, but unfortunately there is no actual gain from doing this other than personal satisfaction.

I don’t get any better drops compared to doing this will full gear on, in fact I get drops slower playing this way as it takes longer to kill enemies + I would die easier/more frequently.

This in turn limits the only end game there is which is accumulating wealth so I can buy cosmetic goods that I enjoy.

So this handicap would make the game harder, but the reward would be less. Now if they actually made it so that I got insane drops from playing in Blues or greens I would definitely consider it. And it would indeed make the game harder.

Mostly I just want to be rewarded for playing difficult content.

The game also seems to encourage casual play and rewards it, to the point where you almost don’t have to do anything at all. For example:

I could run Aetherpath which is arguably a difficult dungeon, with the hopes of getting one of the Dreams weapons. They sell for roughly 200-500g on the TP (I understand that prices are based on supply and demand). If I Don’t get a dream weapon then the other rewards I get from doing this difficult content are marginal at best.

Now I could go to Silverwastes and basically AFK at breeches and Vinewraith events. (and many players do, I’m not one of them because I find it boring). If you do this You get guaranteed champion boxes that appear on your screen, without you having to do much, except for tagging the occasional enemy. In addition you also have a chance at the Preserved Queen Bee Gem which sell for 1.2k gold on average.

These rewards are far greater than anything you might receive from doing difficult content.

Players follow the path of least resistance, the rewards vs effort are far greater by doing easy content in general rather than doing difficult content.

The Hard Case

Beast Sos.1457:

Guild wars 2 already has more than enough casual content its about kitten time they add some hard core PvE content.

Harder (“more challenging”) content is one of the catch phrases woven into the Heart of Thorns mantra, so you’re probably going to get your wish.

However, with HoT, as with everything else GW2, it’s unlikely that most of the “hardcore” content will be exclusively hardcore, because the business case for cutting off the majority of players from new content is terrifyingly abysmal.

As in, cash your next ArenaNet paycheck before it bounces abysmal.

Based on what we’ve been seeing so far, it seems obvious that calls for more challenge have been heard, so if you’re looking for something more engaging, I’m pretty sure Heart of Thorns is going to offer it.

For whatever it’s worth, my biggest concern isn’t whether it will be challenging, but whether it will be fun.

It’s a fine line between “hard” and “tedious”.

Here’s hoping “fun” wins out overall.

Majic.4801:

The Hard Case

Beast Sos.1457:

Guild wars 2 already has more than enough casual content its about kitten time they add some hard core PvE content.

Harder (“more challenging”) content is one of the catch phrases woven into the Heart of Thorns mantra, so you’re probably going to get your wish.

However, with HoT, as with everything else GW2, it’s unlikely that most of the “hardcore” content will be exclusively hardcore, because the business case for cutting off the majority of players from new content is terrifyingly abysmal.

As in, cash your next ArenaNet paycheck before it bounces abysmal.

Based on what we’ve been seeing so far, it seems obvious that calls for more challenge have been heard, so if you’re looking for something more engaging, I’m pretty sure Heart of Thorns is going to offer it.

For whatever it’s worth, my biggest concern isn’t whether it will be challenging, but whether it will be fun.

It’s a fine line between “hard” and “tedious”.

Here’s hoping “fun” wins out overall.

Thats why I’m so hyped for the expansion! I’ve been waiting over 2 years for this. Of course fun is the top priority which is usually what harder content brings. That feeling when you beat a challenging encounter and get that sexy piece of loot at the end is so satisfying, imo.

lordkrall.7241:

Why do people always overstate the difficulty of GW1?
The vast majority of the game can be more or less AFK:ed.

There is of course also the part about everything becoming easy after a while when people have learned how to do it.

Arah was mazing kewl at beggining….

So, it’s not about the content, it’s about the rewards.
Good to know, because I never see the cries for “need hard content” paired with “no, it’s okay, I don’t need more/better/unique loot.”

At least call it what it is, instead of the existing title: “Please reward hard content properly, then make more hard content.” A bit long, it’s as concise as it needs to be.

Snark aside, yes, the devs need to reconsider what rewards are appropriate for easier, zergy content versus their harder skill-based (read as Annoying One-Hit KOs) achievements. Aetherpath, high level fractals, quickdeath mordypup maze, maybe explorable dungeons, are the kinds of things that need better rewards, instead of RNG box drops that gives “two blues and a green.”

@OP, no this game is not “too easy compared to other MMOs”. Show me another MMO where years-old content is not facerolled by the players. If anything this game is much harder than other MMOs because parties in dungeons can still actually fail after all this time.

More to the point, you don’t actually want harder content. Harder content will only be completed by a tiny percentage of the population, and those that do complete it will do so in an afternoon and then come QQ on the forums about how they want more. Let’s see how long a game focused on bringing in the casual audience survives on that kind of content.

Personally I think the level of challenge in this game is perfect. Dungeons and FOTM seem really hard at first, but with skill and practice they become increasingly easier.

cthaeh.2168:

@OP, no this game is not “too easy compared to other MMOs”. Show me another MMO where years-old content is not facerolled by the players. If anything this game is much harder than other MMOs because parties in dungeons can still actually fail after all this time.

More to the point, you don’t actually want harder content. Harder content will only be completed by a tiny percentage of the population, and those that do complete it will do so in an afternoon and then come QQ on the forums about how they want more. Let’s see how long a game focused on bringing in the casual audience survives on that kind of content.

Personally I think the level of challenge in this game is perfect. Dungeons and FOTM seem really hard at first, but with skill and practice they become increasingly easier.

Hey just look at wildstar they tried to cater for the hardcore and succeded but the game failed becouse of it.

CrimsonDX.4821:

Id say this game is plenty challenging enough.

It can be (usually multiple mobs and multiple veterans) in the 80 zones, lower regions, the difficulty doesn’t scale well, so they tend to be much easier if you’re at 80.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Yes I could make the game harder for myself, but unfortunately there is no actual gain from doing this other than personal satisfaction.

Aye, there’s the obstacle.

ANet’s design intent was that they were not going to tie most rewards to specific content. This was done to provide access to things like precursors through varied content and things like Legendary weapons via collecting. That way, players have access to these carrots regardless of preferred game mode or choices of content within a mode.

Thing is, some (if not most) MMO players are not content to repeat content many, many times absent rewards. For one thing, the industry has developed so that rewards are expected. For another, the fun of beating difficult content goes away over time, but the life the developers expect out of the content is generally longer than that content can hold the attention of players on its own merits.

As soon as you postulate rewards as an incentive to repeat content, someone is going to come up with a personal equation that tells them whether the reward is worth the effort. Hard content is harder than easy content, by definition, and generally takes longer. This means the reward for hard content needs to be greater than that for easier content.

Say that rewards are equal regardless of difficulty. If so, players might play the hard content for fun until they’ve mastered it. However, once they’ve reached the stage at which the gratification from challenge/success is done and they’ve switched to getting it from anticipation/reward, they would then just do the easier content. Some skip right to the reward part, and wouldn’t ever bother with the harder content.

ANet has presented at least some of the content in HoT as “harder than anything we’ve seen.” If it is harder, then it’s likely going to need exclusive rewards. It also remains to be sen whether HoT PvE will float the boat of those who like the instanced raid or small group content from other games’ endgames.

All that said, I sometimes have a hard time separating out those who want a challenge from those who want better (and/or exclusive) rewards. Often, the two wants are inseparable.

IndigoSundown.5419:

All that said, I sometimes have a hard time separating out those who want a challenge from those who want better (and/or exclusive) rewards. Often, the two wants are inseparable.

Most seem to want better rewards, so they can sell them for greater profit or to give themselves an advantage.

This game is good in the fact it’s not going to have better stats than ascended. That’s one thing this game needs to stick to.

Harder content doesn’t need to have better rewards, if the reason is purely to test your skills.

Trouble is a lot of raiders in other games do it for the profit they can get from the better rewards. They are effectively stimulated by the amount of gold they can make per hour rather than how difficult it is.

Azala Yar.7693:

IndigoSundown.5419:

All that said, I sometimes have a hard time separating out those who want a challenge from those who want better (and/or exclusive) rewards. Often, the two wants are inseparable.

Most seem to want better rewards, so they can sell them for greater profit or to give themselves an advantage.

This game is good in the fact it’s not going to have better stats than ascended. That’s one thing this game needs to stick to.

Harder content doesn’t need to have better rewards, if the reason is purely to test your skills.

Trouble is a lot of raiders in other games do it for the profit they can get from the better rewards. They are effectively stimulated by the amount of gold they can make per hour rather than how difficult it is.

This is a MMO. If you dont care about rewards there are plenty of other games out there for you. Why shouldnt harder content give better rewards? You put more effort and thought into it so why shouldnt you get better rewards for it?

Beast Sos.1457:

Azala Yar.7693:

IndigoSundown.5419:

All that said, I sometimes have a hard time separating out those who want a challenge from those who want better (and/or exclusive) rewards. Often, the two wants are inseparable.

Most seem to want better rewards, so they can sell them for greater profit or to give themselves an advantage.

This game is good in the fact it’s not going to have better stats than ascended. That’s one thing this game needs to stick to.

Harder content doesn’t need to have better rewards, if the reason is purely to test your skills.

Trouble is a lot of raiders in other games do it for the profit they can get from the better rewards. They are effectively stimulated by the amount of gold they can make per hour rather than how difficult it is.

This is a MMO. If you dont care about rewards there are plenty of other games out there for you. Why shouldnt harder content give better rewards? You put more effort and thought into it so why shouldnt you get better rewards for it?

Because that’s not what this game is about? It’s like saying “I’m a great healer, why am I not rewarded for it in GW2?”

This is a casual game. If all you care about are rewards there are plenty of other games out there for you. Why should harder content give better rewards? If you ask for harder content in a casual game, then why shouldn’t the harder content itself be seen as the extra reward?

Palador.2170:

Beast Sos.1457:

Azala Yar.7693:

IndigoSundown.5419:

All that said, I sometimes have a hard time separating out those who want a challenge from those who want better (and/or exclusive) rewards. Often, the two wants are inseparable.

Most seem to want better rewards, so they can sell them for greater profit or to give themselves an advantage.

This game is good in the fact it’s not going to have better stats than ascended. That’s one thing this game needs to stick to.

Harder content doesn’t need to have better rewards, if the reason is purely to test your skills.

Trouble is a lot of raiders in other games do it for the profit they can get from the better rewards. They are effectively stimulated by the amount of gold they can make per hour rather than how difficult it is.

This is a MMO. If you dont care about rewards there are plenty of other games out there for you. Why shouldnt harder content give better rewards? You put more effort and thought into it so why shouldnt you get better rewards for it?

Because that’s not what this game is about? It’s like saying “I’m a great healer, why am I not rewarded for it in GW2?”

This is a casual game. If all you care about are rewards there are plenty of other games out there for you. Why should harder content give better rewards? If you ask for harder content in a casual game, then why shouldn’t the harder content itself be seen as the extra reward?

Where did you get this idea Gw2 is suppose to be a game only for casual players? They promoted hard content before the game was released but failed with the AI (admitted by Colin and Izzy). The harder content was also suppose to reward better loot.

If you didnt know HoT is suppose to bring challenging content.

if u want a challenge get out of pve and try wvw or pvp

Beast Sos.1457:

Palador.2170:

Beast Sos.1457:

Azala Yar.7693:

IndigoSundown.5419:

All that said, I sometimes have a hard time separating out those who want a challenge from those who want better (and/or exclusive) rewards. Often, the two wants are inseparable.

Most seem to want better rewards, so they can sell them for greater profit or to give themselves an advantage.

This game is good in the fact it’s not going to have better stats than ascended. That’s one thing this game needs to stick to.

Harder content doesn’t need to have better rewards, if the reason is purely to test your skills.

Trouble is a lot of raiders in other games do it for the profit they can get from the better rewards. They are effectively stimulated by the amount of gold they can make per hour rather than how difficult it is.

This is a MMO. If you dont care about rewards there are plenty of other games out there for you. Why shouldnt harder content give better rewards? You put more effort and thought into it so why shouldnt you get better rewards for it?

Because that’s not what this game is about? It’s like saying “I’m a great healer, why am I not rewarded for it in GW2?”

This is a casual game. If all you care about are rewards there are plenty of other games out there for you. Why should harder content give better rewards? If you ask for harder content in a casual game, then why shouldn’t the harder content itself be seen as the extra reward?

Where did you get this idea Gw2 is suppose to be a game only for casual players? They promoted hard content before the game was released but failed with the AI (admitted by Colin and Izzy). The harder content was also suppose to reward better loot.

If you didnt know HoT is suppose to bring challenging content.

Please give a source on were they state that harder content was suppose to reward better loot.

Harder content is there for the challenge, want harder dungeons do ac explorable with only lvl 35s do the same with all other dungeons. (hard mode go with 5 levels below said dungeon)

Just becouse you can breeze through it at max levels dont mean its hard at the intended levels

Edit
Really we need to turn down the kitten limitation in the forum just becouse it can mean naught things dont mean you cant use it in a normal sentences. you cant type Hard

and On after each other as an example

Azala Yar.7693:

IndigoSundown.5419:

All that said, I sometimes have a hard time separating out those who want a challenge from those who want better (and/or exclusive) rewards. Often, the two wants are inseparable.

Most seem to want better rewards, so they can sell them for greater profit or to give themselves an advantage.

This game is good in the fact it’s not going to have better stats than ascended. That’s one thing this game needs to stick to.

Harder content doesn’t need to have better rewards, if the reason is purely to test your skills.

Trouble is a lot of raiders in other games do it for the profit they can get from the better rewards. They are effectively stimulated by the amount of gold they can make per hour rather than how difficult it is.

There is nothing wrong with wanting harder content with better/more profitable rewards. Why should low skilled activities like chest farm in silver waste be the most profitable thing?

lordkrall.7241:

Why do people always overstate the difficulty of GW1?
The vast majority of the game can be more or less AFK:ed.

There is of course also the part about everything becoming easy after a while when people have learned how to do it.

Well because it was harder. It wasnt a really hard game, but gw2 is just a joke. In gw1 u had to work together as a team if you wanted todo speedclears, everyone had a specific role. If you had an important role like T1/T2/… u could just destroy the complete run by casting your SF 2 seconds to late.. Your party would probably leave and have to restart the run and but for each run u had to pay 7k for a new conset. So you absolutely didnt want to die. I know after 100 runs it becomes easy. But in gw2, it’s easy from the first time you try. Once i did this dungeon in gw2 (expl.mode). I had absolutely no idea what i had to do,, i just ran around,, i cleared the dungeon in 15min… like… That made me sad.

No one bother with harder content if it don’t reward something good.

And if it reward something good, it just become cash cow for pro group who either speed run it fast or sell it to other players.

CoRtex.2157:

lordkrall.7241:

Why do people always overstate the difficulty of GW1?
The vast majority of the game can be more or less AFK:ed.

There is of course also the part about everything becoming easy after a while when people have learned how to do it.

Well because it was harder. It wasnt a really hard game, but gw2 is just a joke. In gw1 u had to work together as a team if you wanted todo speedclears, everyone had a specific role. If you had an important role like T1/T2/… u could just destroy the complete run by casting your SF 2 seconds to late.. Your party would probably leave and have to restart the run and but for each run u had to pay 7k for a new conset. So you absolutely didnt want to die. I know after 100 runs it becomes easy. But in gw2, it’s easy from the first time you try. Once i did this dungeon in gw2 (expl.mode). I had absolutely no idea what i had to do,, i just ran around,, i cleared the dungeon in 15min… like… That made me sad.

And all of you were the intended level of said dungeon noone was max and noone knew what to do or did you just piggy back on people that new what they were doing?

Edit
Remember doing ac p2 at release as lvl35 with friends noone knew what to do and we quit at last boss since we got two waves of ghost on one trap and couldent kill them so npc could build the trap.

Linken.6345:

Beast Sos.1457:

Palador.2170:

Beast Sos.1457:

Azala Yar.7693:

IndigoSundown.5419:

All that said, I sometimes have a hard time separating out those who want a challenge from those who want better (and/or exclusive) rewards. Often, the two wants are inseparable.

Most seem to want better rewards, so they can sell them for greater profit or to give themselves an advantage.

This game is good in the fact it’s not going to have better stats than ascended. That’s one thing this game needs to stick to.

Harder content doesn’t need to have better rewards, if the reason is purely to test your skills.

Trouble is a lot of raiders in other games do it for the profit they can get from the better rewards. They are effectively stimulated by the amount of gold they can make per hour rather than how difficult it is.

This is a MMO. If you dont care about rewards there are plenty of other games out there for you. Why shouldnt harder content give better rewards? You put more effort and thought into it so why shouldnt you get better rewards for it?

Because that’s not what this game is about? It’s like saying “I’m a great healer, why am I not rewarded for it in GW2?”

This is a casual game. If all you care about are rewards there are plenty of other games out there for you. Why should harder content give better rewards? If you ask for harder content in a casual game, then why shouldn’t the harder content itself be seen as the extra reward?

Where did you get this idea Gw2 is suppose to be a game only for casual players? They promoted hard content before the game was released but failed with the AI (admitted by Colin and Izzy). The harder content was also suppose to reward better loot.

If you didnt know HoT is suppose to bring challenging content.

Please give a source on were they state that harder content was suppose to reward better loot.

Harder content is there for the challenge, want harder dungeons do ac explorable with only lvl 35s do the same with all other dungeons. (hard mode go with 5 levels below said dungeon)

Just becouse you can breeze through it at max levels dont mean its hard at the intended levels

Edit
Really we need to turn down the kitten limitation in the forum just becouse it can mean naught things dont mean you cant use it in a normal sentences. you cant type Hard

and On after each other as an example

It would take me way to long to find the source. This was more than 3 years ago. Rewards give the content re playability without them no one is going to do a fight more than 4 times. A example of that is the LS 2. 9/10 people wont go back to do the content since it doesnt have any rewards (other than AP). But once the lumi set hit people were doing it left and right.

laokoko.7403:

No one bother with harder content if it don’t reward something good.

And if it reward something good, it just become cash cow for pro group who either speed run it fast or sell it to other players.

Are you talking about hard content or Gw2 dungeons? Kind of seems like the latter. People have thousands of gold from spamming the easy mode dungeons.

laokoko.7403:

No one bother with harder content if it don’t reward something good.

And if it reward something good, it just become cash cow for pro group who either speed run it fast or sell it to other players.

You make it sounds like its something bad to reward good players for doing harder content. In fact it is something really good because it encourages people to get better instead of farming chests in silverwastes (or whatever is the flavor of the month farm), playing the trading post or buying lots of accounts for daily login rewards.

Currently GW2 has a seriously out of whack reward system.

Tequatl gives way better rewards than tri headed worm despite being much easier.
Fractals 50 gives 1.4g (the rings are vendor food at this point and you get duplicate skins most of the time if any) while needing the time of an full ascalon run, even with an above averaage group.

The easy regular dungeons are on farm status for everyone and give guranted gold + tokens you can use for dungeon specific armor and weapon skins.
Do not get me started about the aetherpath in twilight arbor. Unless you get one of the rare drop weapon skins once in a lifetime, you basically wasted your time.

laokoko.7403:

No one bother with harder content if it don’t reward something good.

And if it reward something good, it just become cash cow for pro group who either speed run it fast or sell it to other players.

As a sudden thought, what if instead of bigger rewards, it allowed for less RNG of the rewards?

Let’s take an event that gives 1-3 charged cores, for example. What if instead of getting random ones, you could pick the kind you get as your reward? Or an event that rewards some rare T6 crafting supplies, but you get to pick what kind it gives you. Would that make people happy? Happy enough to do the tougher content, despite the fact that they’re still not getting a bigger reward?

Beast Sos.1457:

Linken.6345:

Beast Sos.1457:

Palador.2170:

Beast Sos.1457:

Azala Yar.7693:

IndigoSundown.5419:

All that said, I sometimes have a hard time separating out those who want a challenge from those who want better (and/or exclusive) rewards. Often, the two wants are inseparable.

Most seem to want better rewards, so they can sell them for greater profit or to give themselves an advantage.

This game is good in the fact it’s not going to have better stats than ascended. That’s one thing this game needs to stick to.

Harder content doesn’t need to have better rewards, if the reason is purely to test your skills.

Trouble is a lot of raiders in other games do it for the profit they can get from the better rewards. They are effectively stimulated by the amount of gold they can make per hour rather than how difficult it is.

This is a MMO. If you dont care about rewards there are plenty of other games out there for you. Why shouldnt harder content give better rewards? You put more effort and thought into it so why shouldnt you get better rewards for it?

Because that’s not what this game is about? It’s like saying “I’m a great healer, why am I not rewarded for it in GW2?”

This is a casual game. If all you care about are rewards there are plenty of other games out there for you. Why should harder content give better rewards? If you ask for harder content in a casual game, then why shouldn’t the harder content itself be seen as the extra reward?

Where did you get this idea Gw2 is suppose to be a game only for casual players? They promoted hard content before the game was released but failed with the AI (admitted by Colin and Izzy). The harder content was also suppose to reward better loot.

If you didnt know HoT is suppose to bring challenging content.

Please give a source on were they state that harder content was suppose to reward better loot.

Harder content is there for the challenge, want harder dungeons do ac explorable with only lvl 35s do the same with all other dungeons. (hard mode go with 5 levels below said dungeon)

Just becouse you can breeze through it at max levels dont mean its hard at the intended levels

Edit
Really we need to turn down the kitten limitation in the forum just becouse it can mean naught things dont mean you cant use it in a normal sentences. you cant type Hard

and On after each other as an example

It would take me way to long to find the source. This was more than 3 years ago. Rewards give the content re playability without them no one is going to do a fight more than 4 times. A example of that is the LS 2. 9/10 people wont go back to do the content since it doesnt have any rewards (other than AP). But once the lumi set hit people were doing it left and right.

kitten I must be playing the game wrong then I do it for fun and challenge with pugs since you never know what the others will bring.
I have certainly done every boss fight/dungeon more then 4 times, even tho them just rewarding coin and tokens.

Beast Sos.1457:

Where did you get this idea Gw2 is suppose to be a game only for casual players?

From all the complaints that there’s no hard core/challenging content?

And they may have said a lot before the game came out, but I think we all know what became of those “not promises”. The game we have now is the game as it is, and should be judged as such.

If you didnt know HoT is suppose to bring challenging content.

Is that a promise?

IndigoSundown.5419:

lordkrall.7241:

Why do people always overstate the difficulty of GW1? The vast majority of the game can be more or less AFK:ed.

While I can kill most mobs in GW2 by initiating my #1 skill and letting it run its course, this was not true in GW. Vanilla GW was actually a hard game, even before Hard Mode. It got easier due to the later addition of new skills, particularly PvE skills, and the addition of Heroes, who were much more effective than Henchmen. If you don’t believe me, play a new character through Prophecies using only the skills you gain from quests, only gear that drops or you get from collectors, no Droks run for top defense armor, and only Henchmen. In other words, play it like the game was new and this was your first character.

Then, there’s Hard Mode and elite instances. While GW2 dungeon explorables were intended to be the hard content, the difficulty has not persisted the nearly three years since launch — due in part to a practice effect on a particular path, players getting better in general, and nerfs to mobs, especially in paths where 80’s are down-leveled.

If you’re running around in GW in Normal Mode with fully specced Heroes using good builds … sure, a lot of the game got easy. While you could AFK if running the PvE Hero build, Discordway, things generally went better if you called targets and actively assisted your many necros in killing things.

I agree with you. Vanilla Guild Wars 1 was hard, but it didn’t stay Vanilla Guild Wars 2 for 3 years. It got easier and easier, and yes people complained even then. It’s easier now that it’s ever been of course, at least as far as soloing with heroes, since you can now use 7 of them.

The problem is, when it was that hard, a lot of people didn’t stay around to play it and that’s the balance a game company needs to make. They need to keep people playing and they found that hard wasn’t really the way to do that. WoW found the same thing which is why everything keeps getting nerfed more and more.

Not much you can do, if you’re the one running the business and responsible to investors to maximize the number of people playing.

Malediktus.9250:

You make it sounds like its something bad to reward good players for doing harder content.

I’m talking about rewards per hour.

No one bothers to run TA aetherblade because PUG could take 3 hours. So unless people are giving like 30 gold for completing it, most people dont’ bother.

But a pro group could finish it in 15 minutes. And I highly doubt Anet will give people 30 gold for something that can be complete in 15 minutes.

Malediktus.9250:

Do not get me started about the aetherpath in twilight arbor. Unless you get one of the rare drop weapon skins once in a lifetime, you basically wasted your time.

which is precisely what I’m talking about.

One of the dungeon group I know actually do them everyday. And they get like 4-5 of it. And it’s worth it to them since they can do it in 20 minutes.

You think it’s not worth it because you can’t do it fast.

laokoko.7403:

Malediktus.9250:

Do not get me started about the aetherpath in twilight arbor. Unless you get one of the rare drop weapon skins once in a lifetime, you basically wasted your time.

which is precisely what I’m talking about.

One of the dungeon group I know actually do them everyday. And they get like 4-5 of it. And it’s worth it to them since they can do it in 20 minutes.

You think it’s not worth it because you can’t do it fast.

I can do it fast, but if you only get a skin every 100 runs or so on average it still turns out to terrible gold per hour

I’ve recently looked back and have begun to remember Orr prior to being nerfed.
Back then it was considered hell. At least 2x the mob density and the CC’s were everywhere. If you were lucky enough to make it to where you want to go, it was:
1) with a massive train following you
2) with no small degree of patience and skill
3) you got lucky, and were ping ponged to where you wanted to go.

Yes, back then Orr was considered hard. Some vocal folks cried out that it was bad level design and demanded it be nerfed, and it was.

I now run through Orr (some of my favorite zones) and think back fondly to those days. This is a warzone. A battle building up to the pinnacle of your character’s story. It should be hard. It should test you, and challenge you to use every skill you have learned up to that point.

Some content needs to be hard, if it makes sense to the story. Making something challenging all the time, just because, is risking frustrating your player base and may cause loss of players.

Of course, with risk must come the appropriate rewards.
That’s a discussion for another time.

Malediktus.9250:

laokoko.7403:

Malediktus.9250:

Do not get me started about the aetherpath in twilight arbor. Unless you get one of the rare drop weapon skins once in a lifetime, you basically wasted your time.

which is precisely what I’m talking about.

One of the dungeon group I know actually do them everyday. And they get like 4-5 of it. And it’s worth it to them since they can do it in 20 minutes.

You think it’s not worth it because you can’t do it fast.

I can do it fast, but if you only get a skin every 100 runs or so on average it still turns out to terrible gold per hour

It’s more of a example than anything. The dungeon take me like 3 hours to do in pug, while another group do it in 20 minutes. So should the rewards be balance base on 3 hours or 20 minutes?

And anything relatively hard and soloable just become another thing dungeon seller sell.

Some things I would like to see to make the game harder:
- Fixed downscaling (lv80s no longer being too powerful on low level maps)
- All events scaled to better compensate for zergs, since they are common now with megaserver.
- All world bosses overhauled to be like Tequatl, Vinewrath, Wurm
- Meta events on all maps that lead to world bosses (e.g Queensdale meta to SB).
- Better “player-like” mechanics on the AI (make mobs evade, strafe, use more skills, etc.).
- Open world agony on lv80 maps to push ascended gear into mainstream. Everyone has access to ascended trinkets and 30AR+ without fractals anyway.
(Just sell versatile infusions from laurel merchants.)

Hannelore.8153:

- Open world agony on lv80 maps to push ascended gear into mainstream. Everyone has access to ascended trinkets and 30AR+ without fractals anyway.
(Just sell versatile infusions from laurel merchants.)

I can imagine the kittenstorm this would cause. I would love to see it implemented just to witness that… But it’s not going to happen.

Yeah, it’d really help to have some stuff which is less trivial. Mind you, I feel they’re getting there. And they’re so close with most content…

I mean, look at Claw of Jormag. There’s the fire shield on the weapons to avoid effects between your dodges. However, damage and knockback is so irrelevant that you can just ignore all this. If you want, you can do a perfect never-hit run on the claw. But for what purpose?

What I’d do:

• For one, make these defensive effects less optional. They shouldn’t be 100% required, but they should have a lot of bite and hence just defending should be substantially less annoying. Mordrem mostly provide this already with their Terrorgriffs and the channel where the vines rise from the ground.
• Two, add a personal “perfection” bar to many larger events. Getting needlessly hit and failing to provide fight-critical effects drains this bar, which can provide up to X bonus, depending on event. Most old world bosses could provide a rather large amount of bonus karma, for example. Not entirely sure about this, plus I’d want helping other people to slightly recharge it somehow. But in general, reward good poersonal play.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

So I’ve already done everything in the game that would be considered “hard” – i.e. all achieves on Aetherpath and fractals lvl 50. While these were fun to do, I’m wondering if there going to add content that is even more difficult than these.

Something on par with GW1 hard mode would be nice, or perhaps something like Domain of Anguish where its a group type raid instance that is actually really difficult to do.

This game is so easy compared to its predecessor, and frankly its way too easy compared to other mmo’s.

As a veteran player I have nothing to work towards anymore and there is very little “Skill Based” Content that gives good exclusive rewards except for Fractals and Aetherpath.

I’d like to see hard jumping puzzles (that don’t allow your friends to teleport you) and instances that reward you with items that cannot be purchased with credit cards.

I don’t believe they’re ever going to do Hard Mode -they specifically said (as far as I recall) that GW2 won’t have a Hard Mode (which is a shame).

The problem with “hard” content is that you can’t make really “hard” content for a game 3 years after its release. Why? A number of reasons that all intertwine.

First of all a good part of “hard” and one of the reasons a lot of content was considered hard at launch is the fact that players are unfamiliar with the game’s mechanics and their own classes.

To make hard content today aimed at veteran players in order to satisfy their desire for challenge you have to take into account that veteran players have not only mastered the game’s mechanics, have a lot of knowledge about it and have good execution but also that they’re well geared.

This means your content will be incredibly punishing for anybody who’s not a veteran and hasn’t obtained the best gear and the best understanding of the game. Which will make new and casual players feel alienated and complain.

Since hardcore-seeking veteran players seem to be a minority of GW2’s player base this move would probably not be well received among the majority of GW2’s more casual player base.

Another issue is that hard content needs good or unique rewards to drive players to do it past the first few times.
If such rewards were put in place again – a good portion of GW2’s casual player base would object to rewards that they cannot obtain since they’re not “skilled” or “dedicated” enough to be able to tackle the content and get the rewards.

Ultimately – I think more difficult content is coming but not overly difficult. I think it might be the type of content that requires more grind than skill.

This is a shame – but it is what it is.

Hard PvE content is a very difficult thing to create. Unless you can create a complex dynamic system that makes things different each time you play it, every challenging content added will eventually become easy once the players learn what needs to be done to overcome it. Once the tactics are discovered and memorized the content will become trivial.

The only way a developer will be able to keep content always challenging is by adding many random elements. Give players stuff they do not expect so they have to react rather than go through a routine. If players do not know what to expect, what enemy compositions they will face, what skills the mobs will have, then content will remain challenging for much longer. But like I say, this kind of thing is very difficult to create.

Anet added some dynamic events into dungeons, but they weren’t enough in my opinion. They need to add more randomized content if they want to keep the player base happy for longer. Procedurally generated dungeons for example, where not only the map layout changes each time, but the mobs, their skills, the traps and puzzles, and the bosses can change drastically with each run through it.

Procedural content is the future of the genre in my opinion, along side player generated/influenced content. I would love to see Anet add one or both of these things to GW2, but I would also understand if they didn’t. They are both colossal tasks to undertake, and incredibly difficult to get right.