Guild Wars 2

Paulytnz.7619:

Tman.6349:

it means the game revolves around using the #1 weapon skill to accomplish everything from riding the ‘Queensdale Champ Train’ to defeating massive world bosses to zerging mindlessly in WvWvW. its a “SKILL-based game” and that skill is auto-attack.

Are you saying that spamming various different keys would make playing this game more skilful? Honestly these kind of statements are so yesterday now and very incorrect.

There is a lot more to this game than just using skills and knowing when to use them that could be called using skill. Some things that could be said as such are:

1 – Your build, knowing when to use what build.
2 – Your skills, knowing when to use what skills for what situations and as such weapons that bring those skills as well as utilities. Also in many cases spamming the number 1 skill has benefits. Examples can be a guardian using a mace, the 3rd hit will heal you and allies, there are MANY other examples such as those that continuously stack conditions.

3 – Positioning, some people say this does not exist here but it does. Weather it comes down to stacking in party boss fights, or being on the front lines in WvW and knowing when to push and pull back. Also if you are dangerously low say for example in a champ fight where you are fighting with maybe 1 or 2 other people, again pullback to buy much needed time to heal and then get back into the fight.

4 – Food, there are many foods and other consumables (oils, stones) which have a lot of various effects. Again using the right foods in the right situations with the right builds can make a huge difference.

5 – Being a support player to those around you. Know when to heal others, know when to revive them, know when you should jump in there and try to take the aggro from an enemy when an ally may need time to heal etc. Of course this matters very little in zerg situations but when you are out and about roaming around or just partying in a dungeon it can make all the difference in the world.

6 – Communication, use TeamSpeak or map/team chat in places like WvW and PvP. Let your team mates know what’s going on, what needs help and where. Remember this is a MMO not a single player game and no one can read your mind. Knowing what information to pass on and when also takes skill too in many cases. Don’t just spam every little thing that is happening.

7 – Knowing your enemy. Get familiar with the NPC critters before thinking you are godly enough to just run in and take a whole army on yourself. Likewise for other classes and various builds they can bring. We all start with 5 char slots, feel free to play around with the other classes in the sPvP area for free. Spend a good hour or so on each class and see exactly what strengths and weaknesses they have – with ALL weapons/utilities/traits.

I am sure there are many other things I have overlooked here and not put down. But for anyone to say this game takes no skill I would have to say they haven’t really tried much and obviously just take the easy path available themselves.

Lastly I would like to say it may not take much skill to simply play this game but it does take skill to be a good player, especially in all aspects of the game . :P

Wow…more assumptions…great. I’ve been rocking Tyria for nearly 9 years so don’t get that twisted. I’ve had 8 geared 80s for about a year now and although your noble advice surely comes from the heart…you seem to not make a distinction between being prepared and being skilled. All of your ‘advices’/tips/quips/unfounded assumptions are completely out of context and have little to do with true skill. Than though for trying but my point demands just as valid as when I posted It. In fact, If YOU would like some tips hit me up in game any time and I’ll be glad to teach you some things.

They might be able to make the combat more interesting if they have a particular “INTERACTIVE” combat gimmick for each class.
ex: ( just at the top of my head )
warrior – counter when you press 1 right when being hit
thief – shadowsteps to a different location when out of initiatives
Guardians – knockback if you press 1 everytime u block

something like that perhaps with some internal cd. So instead of pressing 1 all the time in zergs or rotating skills. .

From experience tapping a button give a sense of speed/ holding give a sense of pwoer/ timing give a sense of precision. You can use these to make combat feel more varied.

if only gw2 is like this lol, Then it can be moving towards a skilled game category to know what to do when to do it. With a sense of rhythm and finese

Scoobaniec.9561:

Rin.1046:

Skills required in GW2:
Strategy, Tactics, Positioning, Reaction Times, Build Composition, Some Aiming (ground targeting)

Strategy, tactic, positioning, reaction time, some aiming and..

http://youtu.be/8CmZ5O_XjKs?t=8m56s

Oh sorry wrong vid, i wasnt talking about smashing 2, i was mean that one;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZmatZJX7S4

I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but all I see there is a huge health pool dragon I’d even go and compare it to tequalt, there is much more involve in tequalt than a group spamming 1, but half the Zerg is not willing to learn and let the dedicated people do the hard job.

There is a lot of good boss fight in GW2, sadly most of them don’t last very long and to make them interesting most people have to solo them. Boss like Giganticus Lupicus where movement and placement is crucial but then again, with a full party can be downed before even causing a threat with a good party.

On the other end I fully agree with the fact that the main threat in GW2 is not exploited as it should. Fight like Zaithan, Shadow Behemoth, Shatterer, Jormag could be a lot better.

I played Vindictus and liked it, but the rooting for a combat MMO (just like Tera) is kind of turn off for me now that I played GW2. Vindictus was more like Dragon Nest for me, instanced/gender locked, it could have been a really great game if it wasn’t for these 2.

I don’t know, I have different memories of Guild Wars 1. Most of the game, more than 90% of it, could be beaten by looking up a build in PvX Wiki, speccing out your heroes and pretty much doing nothing yourself. There were exceptions but they were few and far between.

There were many times in hard mode I’d just walk away from the computer to do stuff and my heroes would take out patrols while I was afk.

Build Wars was a skill game if you made your own builds. But if you looked up builds (or just paid for runs) you could beat just about everything.

Rin.1046:

,.,

For me the combat in gw2 feels like a generic mmo in general except it don’t have hit rate/evasion (thanks gods, its really bs) and a dodge. But other than that, tis just like a generic mmo.

As for video hes olny been using 2 skills bc his weapon choice doesnt have many skills and its really boring to play (lann twin spear).

Takes a bit mooar skill than gw
But like in every mmo theres also a dps rotation i agree.

Trice.4598:

,

I don’t like the rotation either but it doesnt mean u have to play in a rotation. Rotation just like everywhere is to get max dps and that is. As for gender locked classes and instances i can live with it. Its not like gw2 community doesnt spend their entire life in dungeons either bc open world inst rewarding and its just here to get map completion. Imho the best combat system so far has Dark Souls but thats not mmo, i do also wonder what Black Desert will bring.

Teckos.1305:

Saturn.6591:

Then you should know that if you use a sword, you will always have to use the sword for your attacks (obviously). However, you have 5 different attacks with that sword. Then you can also us another weapon and also, you’ve got 5 more exchangeable skills. I doubt that all you do is autoattacking without ever using any other skill.

Wow such knowledge, much meta, very useful. From what you write I can sense that the game knowledge flows trough you and also that you have played enough game/MMOrpgs to acknowledge that gw2 requires more than 3 skills to complete all content, seriously we are not worthy.

You know, I can also only do zerging or open world and maybe some of the easier world bosses and then claim you don’t need to use more than 3 skills.

Truth is, you’ll almost never win a fight in PvP or in WvW (while solo-roaming) with only using 3 skills. Even operating a turret at Tequatl requires you to use all 5 skills at the right time… at least if you want to support the zerg as good as possible.

Also, about the original point of the post I’ve quoted: Go play Dungeon Siege 1. If you use a sword, you’ll swing it at your foe, swing it again and again. Or Skyrim. If you use a sword, you’ll keep swinging it at your opponent. In GW2, you’ll actually do different things with that sword, use different skills with it. Not all of those skills are meant to deal damage, but you can and will use them if needed. Or at least you should. Which in turn means you don’t just swing that sword again and again and again. If you want to play a game where you need to press 8 keys in 2 seconds with the right timing to do some serious damage, go play fighting games like Tekken or Mortal Kombat.

Movement, dodge, how you utilize your build, situational decisions, teamwork etc.

Tman.6349:

it means the game revolves around using the #1 weapon skill to accomplish everything from riding the ‘Queensdale Champ Train’ to defeating massive world bosses to zerging mindlessly in WvWvW. its a “SKILL-based game” and that skill is auto-attack.

Nailed it. :P

wait what. When did they call this a skill based game? I mean necros insta downing ppl with condi spam or fear fow dayz and engis auto attacking to put 3 dif condis at once then just sitting there laughing while you try to clense while warriors stun you and guards heal and run laps. Or is it when thieves stealth and blind then hit you for most your hp? Or maybe even the mesmer chain tele/stealth with condis to throw at the same time dpsing you down.

Its ok Eles and rangers. Eles wil be back one day and as for rangers… one day rangers one day.

Wow, alot of people seem to be confused between skill, tactic and strategy… They are 3 different things.

pulupulu.9730:

Wow, alot of people seem to be confused between skill, tactic and strategy… They are 3 different things.

Not neccesserily. A skill is something someone has an expertise in.

So, someone can have skill in creating and executing strategies and tactics.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t know, I have different memories of Guild Wars 1. Most of the game, more than 90% of it, could be beaten by looking up a build in PvX Wiki, speccing out your heroes and pretty much doing nothing yourself. There were exceptions but they were few and far between.

There were many times in hard mode I’d just walk away from the computer to do stuff and my heroes would take out patrols while I was afk.

Build Wars was a skill game if you made your own builds. But if you looked up builds (or just paid for runs) you could beat just about everything.

Still a more skill game than Gold Wars 2.

Tman.6349:

Paulytnz.7619:

Tman.6349:

it means the game revolves around using the #1 weapon skill to accomplish everything from riding the ‘Queensdale Champ Train’ to defeating massive world bosses to zerging mindlessly in WvWvW. its a “SKILL-based game” and that skill is auto-attack.

Are you saying that spamming various different keys would make playing this game more skilful? Honestly these kind of statements are so yesterday now and very incorrect.

There is a lot more to this game than just using skills and knowing when to use them that could be called using skill. Some things that could be said as such are:

1 – Your build, knowing when to use what build.
2 – Your skills, knowing when to use what skills for what situations and as such weapons that bring those skills as well as utilities. Also in many cases spamming the number 1 skill has benefits. Examples can be a guardian using a mace, the 3rd hit will heal you and allies, there are MANY other examples such as those that continuously stack conditions.

3 – Positioning, some people say this does not exist here but it does. Weather it comes down to stacking in party boss fights, or being on the front lines in WvW and knowing when to push and pull back. Also if you are dangerously low say for example in a champ fight where you are fighting with maybe 1 or 2 other people, again pullback to buy much needed time to heal and then get back into the fight.

4 – Food, there are many foods and other consumables (oils, stones) which have a lot of various effects. Again using the right foods in the right situations with the right builds can make a huge difference.

5 – Being a support player to those around you. Know when to heal others, know when to revive them, know when you should jump in there and try to take the aggro from an enemy when an ally may need time to heal etc. Of course this matters very little in zerg situations but when you are out and about roaming around or just partying in a dungeon it can make all the difference in the world.

6 – Communication, use TeamSpeak or map/team chat in places like WvW and PvP. Let your team mates know what’s going on, what needs help and where. Remember this is a MMO not a single player game and no one can read your mind. Knowing what information to pass on and when also takes skill too in many cases. Don’t just spam every little thing that is happening.

7 – Knowing your enemy. Get familiar with the NPC critters before thinking you are godly enough to just run in and take a whole army on yourself. Likewise for other classes and various builds they can bring. We all start with 5 char slots, feel free to play around with the other classes in the sPvP area for free. Spend a good hour or so on each class and see exactly what strengths and weaknesses they have – with ALL weapons/utilities/traits.

I am sure there are many other things I have overlooked here and not put down. But for anyone to say this game takes no skill I would have to say they haven’t really tried much and obviously just take the easy path available themselves.

Lastly I would like to say it may not take much skill to simply play this game but it does take skill to be a good player, especially in all aspects of the game . :P

Wow…more assumptions…great. I’ve been rocking Tyria for nearly 9 years so don’t get that twisted. I’ve had 8 geared 80s for about a year now and although your noble advice surely comes from the heart…you seem to not make a distinction between being prepared and being skilled. All of your ‘advices’/tips/quips/unfounded assumptions are completely out of context and have little to do with true skill. Than though for trying but my point demands just as valid as when I posted It. In fact, If YOU would like some tips hit me up in game any time and I’ll be glad to teach you some things.

Ummm I have 8 chars all with 100% world complete now I don’t need your advice or tips but thanks for offering anyway. Okay so you played GW1 for a long time, a lot of people did, but tbh that really means nothing here, 2 totally different games.

Hey I never said they didn’t dumb this game down any because they obviously have. But for people to say you just stand still and auto attack is plain rubbish. Sure you CAN do that in a lot of the content but all of it? Ummm no you will fail.

“All of your ‘advices’/tips/quips/unfounded assumptions are completely out of context "

My “advice” or whatever you want to call it I’m sure may help some new players to the game while it also does point out again that there is more to this game and what some people can term as “skill”. If you can’t see that well I can’t help you, maybe you are looking too much in the mirror and thinking too much thoughts like “I’m awesome, I have played a game for 9 years now, I am pro”. Okay, now you can say I am getting twisted. :P

If you are looking for games that require player-skill you should stop playing MMORPG and go for FPS or fighting games.

Headless.3718:

If you are looking for games that require player-skill you should stop playing MMORPG and go for FPS or fighting games.

You mean those games where ppl can’t stand losing and so they have to use some exploit to shoot you through walls and such, no thanks……had enough of that garbage now. Xbox needs to die, and die NOW lol.

Mosharn.8357:

wait what. When did they call this a skill based game? I mean necros insta downing ppl with condi spam or fear fow dayz and engis auto attacking to put 3 dif condis at once then just sitting there laughing while you try to clense while warriors stun you and guards heal and run laps. Or is it when thieves stealth and blind then hit you for most your hp? Or maybe even the mesmer chain tele/stealth with condis to throw at the same time dpsing you down.

When you actually know how to use a stunbreak in the right time, how to position yourself, when and what to dodge and when to cleanse, so you actually kill those evil Necros, Engineers and Thieves instead of getting killed by them. Yes, I would call that skill. Skill which you seem to lack, judging from your post. Which leads to the conclusion that some people are like “if I don’t have the skill to play the game properly, I’ll just claim that the game doesn’t require any skill anyway”. This group of players is similar to the “I got owned by someone playing another class, I’ll go and cry for nerfs now, because it’s obviously impossible that the other person just was a more skilled player than me” group.

This is not a skill based game. It is a level and gear based game. Simple.

Pre NGE SWG was a skill based game. Eve is a skill based game. TSW is a skill based game. GW1 was a semi skill based game, far far more than this one.

In skill based games your char is defined by the skill sets chosen from a large pool and not limited to a given profession or level. Power of weapons and armor are dependant on skills invested in them, not level. In a skill based game, how you invest skill points are far more important than profession or weapons choice.

It is a very basic game concept that has nothing to do with button mashing “skillz”

Skills tied to weapons is bad design for a game that brags about skins being the end game. I mean GS is a great dps weapon but I hate them with a passion. Doesn’t mean I wouldn’t mind some of the skills for my hammer, then I’d really use all 5 skills often.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

This is not a skill based game. It is a level and gear based game. Simple.

Pre NGE SWG was a skill based game. Eve is a skill based game. TSW is a skill based game. GW1 was a semi skill based game, far far more than this one.

In skill based games your char is defined by the skill sets chosen from a large pool and not limited to a given profession or level. Power of weapons and armor are dependant on skills invested in them, not level. In a skill based game, how you invest skill points are far more important than profession or weapons choice.

It is a very basic game concept that has nothing to do with button mashing “skillz”

When referring to skill-based, I don’t think they’re referring to the main focus being on skills, but that the game has a greater focus on player-skill and less on numbers in the back (block chance, parry chance ect).

I had to do some special exercises to build up the strength and endurance required to spam 1.

“fighting without fighting”

Skill in GW2 combat is primarily timing. You time when to dodge, when to use defensive buffs, when to heal, when to use offensive buffs, when to reposition, etc. The rest is knowing which attacks or utility skills to use when. Timing the invulnerability frames can require both a good computer, good connection and good twitch reflexes. Since you can increase your twitch reflexes to some degree (i.e., you can get better at it with practice), this does constitute the development of skill.

Skilled play is, unfortunately, not required in some of the activities the game provides. Thus, the negative comments about herd play and overuse of #1 skill. It’s also unfortunate that most of the reward carrots provided in the game steer players towards herd play. This is a side effect of wanting large numbers of players to do content in the open world simultaneously.

I’m confused about what argument some of you are actually making, and how you’re able to arrive at that conclusion. Is it:

A) You have never developed any skill and are successful in all content of the game (PvE,WvW,sPvP) by using only one skill on auto-attack. Conclusion being the game is too easy for non-skilled players.

or

B) You have developed a lot of skill at all types of game-play and therefore the game seems too easy. The only logical conclusion being the game is easy for skilled players.

or

C) Sheer numbers of players (zergs) can overwhelm any content if the number is high enough, so very little skill is required in those situations. Conclusion, the more players against a target the less individual skills are a factor.

If the argument some of you are making is ‘A’ I would absolutely agree with you, if it were true or even possible. No one should be able to never learn or utilize the combat mechanics of the game and still be competitive or successful in all game-play modes. I simply don’t think it’s possible. I would love to see a video of a party of 5 players completing a dungeon, taking a WvW enemy camp, winning an sPvP match, cleansing an Orrian temple etc. using only one skill and no dodge, ability, or positioning skills. Even bots have to use all their abilities just to kill an easy mob in Orr for instance.

A very easy way to eliminate ‘skill’ as a variable would be to set up a 1v1 with identical builds/stats. If skill is no part of the equation and it is just a gear & stat check then they would tie, forever. Or test out the theory that a dungeon can be completed with 5 people only using one skill, no strategic positioning, and no dodge.

If the argument is ‘B’ then I would have to agree and it is as it should be.

If the argument is ‘C’ then I would also agree, somewhat. The ‘skills’ of a zerg (as with any army actually) is primarily in organization and communication. For instance Teq not only needs high numbers of players but also a lot of organization. The same goes for WvW zergs. The skill comes more from the overall strategy than the skills of the individual players.

If the argument is that running the Queensdale zerg-train is easy and requires no skill then yes, I totally and absolutely agree.

This is skilled combat

milo.6942:

Can someone break that statement down and explain what it means and how gw2 compares with non skill-based games

If I were to compare,

WoW for example is a gear based game, two equal skilled/traited opponents are matched up, but different tier gear. The better gear will always win.

Usually the gear based games will have a pretty big difference in stats at end level between gear tiers.

GW2 is called “skill” based, less about the word skill and more of an emphasis of not having such a stat inflation between tiers of level 80 gear.

A testament to how skill based a game is, is by how many bads complain about failing.

It’s not too bad here. Although let’s admit that this isn’t an esports despite what some may claim.

Also, it’s also dependent on performance difference between 2 equally leveled and geared characters. Is there a huge difference between 2 equally geared rangers, but one just camps with a longbow with a bear vs a ranger that switches weapons and pets? I think so, I hope. Is there a difference between 2 zerker players of which one tries to facetank and the other dodges? The former leads to wipes due to being a deadweight, the later leads to speedruns. And a lot of people aren’t able to do dungeons properly; there’s a big diffrence between casual runs and those hardcore speedruns.

And I find it’s perfectly fine that there’s easy faceroll content that caters to just pressing 1 (actaully if you turn on autoattack you don’t really have to spam it, scrubs). Of course, you could do the harder stuff, like roaming in wvw (maybe on a class that doesn’t have 9 billion escapes) or the instance content which can’t be “zerged”. But if you can’t, then maybe you should just stick to 1111 in zergs because chances are, that’s all you’re capable of. You know, especially the crowd that goes “all you have to do in pve dungeons is to wear zerker and dodge”, but don’t do actually do it, because it’s too tedious or not how the way they want to play. (read: too hard)

GW2 tests the players’ ability to churn cheese.

Ronah.2869:

This is skilled combat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y1RIbrKgdA

12345 – F2 – 12345 – F3 -12345 – F4 – 12345 – F1 – 12345

Mix in a few dodge rolls and utility skills and there you have it.

TheDaiBish.9735:

pulupulu.9730:

Wow, alot of people seem to be confused between skill, tactic and strategy… They are 3 different things.

Not neccesserily. A skill is something someone has an expertise in.

So, someone can have skill in creating and executing strategies and tactics.

No. Skill is needed to execute strategy and tactic. It does not make them the same thing.

A bunch of people here just label all 3 under “skill”. Which is either over simplifying or just butchering the language.

Eloquence.5207:

GW2 tests the players’ ability to churn cheese.

Ahahaha, 10/10 post man, 10/10 post.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

This is not a skill based game. It is a level and gear based game. Simple.

Pre NGE SWG was a skill based game. Eve is a skill based game. TSW is a skill based game. GW1 was a semi skill based game, far far more than this one.

In skill based games your char is defined by the skill sets chosen from a large pool and not limited to a given profession or level. Power of weapons and armor are dependant on skills invested in them, not level. In a skill based game, how you invest skill points are far more important than profession or weapons choice.

It is a very basic game concept that has nothing to do with button mashing “skillz”

When referring to skill-based, I don’t think they’re referring to the main focus being on skills, but that the game has a greater focus on player-skill and less on numbers in the back (block chance, parry chance ect).

In that context the conversation is meaningless. There is no base level player “skill” required to succeed in this game, other level based games, or in skill based games.

There are “skilled” players in every type of game. There are “unskilled” players as well.
Game companies do not set a standard of “skill” to play a game, they sell to a broad demographic. They do not base games on some arbitrary player skill standard.

Skill based is a description of a mechanic, no more. While it may salve some peoples ego to assume a game takes more “skill”, they don’t. A player’s skill level can make games easier, but is not required to be successful in any MMO I have played. Earth And Beyond, SWG, WoW, LoTRO, STO,GW1, AoC, Everquest 1 and 2, CoH, EVE, etc etc etc.

I play this with a severe manual dexterity handicap. I do not wasd. I rarely dodge. I don’t run about like a headless chicken. My chars are set up to be passively tough, and that gives me enough time to mash buttons with my one functional left finger. I have 9 level 90s with no problems doing whatever it is I want to do, in spite of lacking the “skillz” people here are going on and on about.

Knowledge is the only “skill” necessary. People fail in games by not understanding mechanics, period. Physical dexterity is only needed in certain forms of PVP.. and the most dexterous person on earth can be beaten by latency and bad connectivity… or, by someone who simply knows the mechanics better.

The greatest dodger and mover in this game will fail in GW1 trying to use those “skillz”. Does that make GW1 harder? No. No more than dodging makes this game harder. Not understanding the mechanics of either game will make them harder.. and that is it.

Danicco.3568:

All games requires skills, it just happens they’re different.

GW2, however, does seem to have a higher skill ceiling than other MMOs.

How other MMOs works:
You press the button. Skill starts casting. If it’s not canceled/interrupted, skill goes off, and WILL hit the target. (If there’s a math hit/evasion calculation, it’s calculated then)
You get close, you press melee skill, melee skill goes off. Calculates hit and damage.

How GW2 differentiates from it:
You press the button, Skill starts casting. If it’s not canceled/interrupted, skill goes off, and IF it actually hits the target, it deals damage. There is no hit/miss calculation, it’s based if you actually hit or not.
Melee skills works the same way. You press the button, skill goes off. If it hits the enemy area, it deals damage.

So, other MMOs don’t have much of this “action” part where you can dodge or avoid attacks by moving or by having fast reflexes. They’re sorta turn-based, math-heavy, like all old school RPGs. “Skill” is heavily based on strategy.
GW2 “Skill” is based on strategy and dexterity.

It’s still a different set of skills, so saying GW2 is “skill-based game” doesn’t imply the other games aren’t.

Not really true. Ive been playing Blade and Soul CN server and that game skill base is much higher then GW2. Consider that you need to be able to connect combos and dodge while at it. And ive played GW2 for about a year X.X so ive compare the 2. Not bashing on the game or what but just wanted to put it out that there are MMO that have higher base skill then GW2. Especially the new ones.

Man some of these comments are hilarious.

But anyway, what the “skill” thing was trying to say is that everyone has the same access to the same gear – so the person who wins in a fight is theoretically more skilled.

This is opposed to other MMOs – where having ‘epic’ or ‘legendary’ gear will make you do 3 x more damage and no matter how skilled someone is, you can insta-kill them if you are more geared.

Ghostextechnica.3270:

Man some of these comments are hilarious.

But anyway, what the “skill” thing was trying to say is that everyone has the same access to the same gear – so the person who wins in a fight is theoretically more skilled.

This is opposed to other MMOs – where having ‘epic’ or ‘legendary’ gear will make you do 3 x more damage and no matter how skilled someone is, you can insta-kill them if you are more geared.

You forgot that composition is a thing. Composition isn’t skill.

If u play a Thief then this game is skill based,if u play warrior then its not

Judge Banks.9018:

You forgot that composition is a thing. Composition isn’t skill.

Oh it’s not me forgetting, it’s Anet.

But anyway, equal access to gear was the big thing in GW1.

Too bad class balance has somehow gone out the window in GW2.

saalle.4623:

If u play a Thief then this game is skill based,if u play warrior then its not

Because stealthing and running away is so hard.

ANET should make the world boss as hard as the scaled up diplomat tarban…….. hell make them summon 4 diplomat tarban…..

‘Skill’ is not just having tools available to spam, or how fast you can spam them. It’s when to use those tools/abilities…in any game. It’s timing.

Even in games like bowling, where you have one skill (roll the ball) you have to know when to put some ‘english’ on it to get that 7-10 split or just hurl it as fast and as accurate as you can to get a strike.

Skill is not how many abilites you have.
Skill is not how fast you can use them.
Skill is not being the overwhelming outnumbering force.
Skill is reactive, knowing when to do something at the right time.

I’m done with this thread since it seems to boil down to the basic definition of ‘skill’ is for some reason lost on some people. Just please, either look up the definition of skill or post a video link showing how you completed any of the content by using no skill.

And btw, if anyone says it takes no skill to play a thief, they have never played a thief.

Wasbunny.6531:

‘Skill’ is not just having tools available to spam, or how fast you can spam them. It’s when to use those tools/abilities…in any game. It’s timing.

Even in games like bowling, where you have one skill (roll the ball) you have to know when to put some ‘english’ on it to get that 7-10 split or just hurl it as fast and as accurate as you can to get a strike.

Skill is not how many abilites you have.
Skill is not how fast you can use them.
Skill is not being the overwhelming outnumbering force.
Skill is reactive, knowing when to do something at the right time.

I’m done with this thread since it seems to boil down to the basic definition of ‘skill’ is for some reason lost on some people. Just please, either look up the definition of skill or post a video link showing how you completed any of the content by using no skill.

And btw, if anyone says it takes no skill to play a thief, they have never played a thief.

I can guarantee you that there are thieves… with none of what you define as “skill”, who have legendaries, ascended, piles of gold and 10k+ achievements. Nothing in this game is gated based on your “skill” definition. It is not a skill based game, period. The absolute worst thief in game can gain as much in the whole sphere of the game as the best can. It takes little skill to blob content, gank yaks and run from players in wvw, grind maps, mats, do JPs and hit F repeatedly. And this goes for any class in this game.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Wasbunny.6531:

‘Skill’ is not just having tools available to spam, or how fast you can spam them. It’s when to use those tools/abilities…in any game. It’s timing.

Even in games like bowling, where you have one skill (roll the ball) you have to know when to put some ‘english’ on it to get that 7-10 split or just hurl it as fast and as accurate as you can to get a strike.

Skill is not how many abilites you have.
Skill is not how fast you can use them.
Skill is not being the overwhelming outnumbering force.
Skill is reactive, knowing when to do something at the right time.

I’m done with this thread since it seems to boil down to the basic definition of ‘skill’ is for some reason lost on some people. Just please, either look up the definition of skill or post a video link showing how you completed any of the content by using no skill.

And btw, if anyone says it takes no skill to play a thief, they have never played a thief.

I can guarantee you that there are thieves… with none of what you define as “skill”, who have legendaries, ascended, piles of gold and 10k+ achievements. Nothing in this game is gated based on your “skill” definition. It is not a skill based game, period. The absolute worst thief in game can gain as much in the whole sphere of the game as the best can. It takes little skill to blob content, gank yaks and run from players in wvw, grind maps, mats, do JPs and hit F repeatedly. And this goes for any class in this game.

Agreed. No skill is required to attaining gold (can be bought by real money).

The worst player can gain as much as the best player? If that were true I would totally agree, but it’s not. The more skilled players are more effective in every game-play mode I’ve been in, whether it’s WvW, sPvP, or PvE.

It takes little skill to ‘blob content’. Agreed. I guess I should link my previous post.

I’m confused about what argument some of you are actually making, and how you’re able to arrive at that conclusion. Is it:

A) You have never developed any skill and are successful in all content of the game (PvE,WvW,sPvP) by using only one skill on auto-attack. Conclusion being the game is too easy for non-skilled players.

or

B) You have developed a lot of skill at all types of game-play and therefore the game seems too easy. The only logical conclusion being the game is easy for skilled players.

or

C) Sheer numbers of players (zergs) can overwhelm any content if the number is high enough, so very little skill is required in those situations. Conclusion, the more players against a target the less individual skills are a factor.

If the argument some of you are making is ‘A’ I would absolutely agree with you, if it were true or even possible. No one should be able to never learn or utilize the combat mechanics of the game and still be competitive or successful in all game-play modes. I simply don’t think it’s possible. I would love to see a video of a party of 5 players completing a dungeon, taking a WvW enemy camp, winning an sPvP match, cleansing an Orrian temple etc. using only one skill and no dodge, ability, or positioning skills. Even bots have to use all their abilities just to kill an easy mob in Orr for instance.

A very easy way to eliminate ‘skill’ as a variable would be to set up a 1v1 with identical builds/stats. If skill is no part of the equation and it is just a gear & stat check then they would tie, forever. Or test out the theory that a dungeon can be completed with 5 people only using one skill, no strategic positioning, and no dodge.

If the argument is ‘B’ then I would have to agree and it is as it should be.

If the argument is ‘C’ then I would also agree, somewhat. The ‘skills’ of a zerg (as with any army actually) is primarily in organization and communication. For instance Teq not only needs high numbers of players but also a lot of organization. The same goes for WvW zergs. The skill comes more from the overall strategy than the skills of the individual players.

If the argument is that running the Queensdale zerg-train is easy and requires no skill then yes, I totally and absolutely agree.

O.K….now I’m done

The trolls in this thread are so obvious I’m surprised anyone is bothering to feed them.

From what I have seen of MMOs and online games, guild wars adds more functionality as far as juking, placement, dodging, and targeting goes. Many games, if you are in range of a skill, it will go through a hit check regardless of player orientation or speed, instead using auto target or auto-follow to do things. This leads to the game being about build checks, level comparisons, gear checks, clan size… a series of factors that lead to the battle being fully decided before the fight even begins.

Guild wars 2 has less of this. It is not completely gone, as we’ve seen with things like Diamond Skin. But on average, in any given bout between me and another player who has a build advantage over me, there is a series of smart choices I can make to win, and them a series of bad choices they can make to lose.

One of the best examples I have of this was a 1 on 1 battle between me (engineer) and a thief that we had on the Henge at the Forest of Niflhel. I was running a turret control build, and the thief was running some unknown build. Now, normally when I face a thief (especially in hotjoin), they rush to try and burst me down, get caught in the control network of the turrets, and get killed rather quickly. But this guy… didn’t. Over and over again, he would vanish out, attack me a few times, then vanish, then appear quickly on the opposite side of the pillars to snipe me with the short bow, then vanish again. He disappeared so many times and I had no idea how he was doing it. He wasn’t hitting my turrets, either. The battle was long and hard fought, and eventually he managed to down and stomp me. I was so perplexed with how hard to pin down he was that I actually asked him directly how he did that.

And he told me: He saw that I had placed my turrets mostly within the henge, so he decided to use the pillars around the henge to protect himself. Since I had runes of the ogre, a rock dog was summoned and it would chase him. From behind the pillars he would quickly switch to the dagger and use cloak and dagger on the rock dog, causing him to vanish completely without me knowing how. This left me under constant ambush, with the turrets constantly having to reposition and attack him, making it so the turrets couldn’t lock him down. With continued hit and run tactics, he was able to slowly wear me down while also damaging my turrets (who had much longer cooldowns back then), which then left me open for a more direct confrontation that I would lose.

As far as PVE is considered, it is indeed “skill based”, however it falls into the same trap that most PVE games do: everything is ultimately a puzzle The enemies are hard until you figure out a trick to it, and then they become much easier. The tricks themselves have varying degrees of difficulty, but ultimately all enemies in PVE are about figuring out how to beat them more so then they are actually performing the tactic. I can’t really blame GW2 for this in particular, because nearly every game I’ve played falls into this trap.

GW2 does differentiate itself a bit from other MMOs, since it does factor in positioning, motion, and active defense. There are games out there where everything is literally a series of hit checks, defense checks, and damage checks that involve none of the above. At that point they might as well have been turn based.

milo.6942:

Can someone break that statement down and explain what it means and how gw2 compares with non skill-based games

Dont get the terms confused like many do. Both terms have the same name but different meaning.

In gaming/sports, Skill is the same meaning as Talent.

But in a game like this aka MMO/RPGs the term Skill means Abilities/Spells not talent.

So what is meant by the term Skill-based gaming, is a game designed about build making using abilities (SKILLS as they are called).

Dont get these two meaning mixed up

Skill == Talent
vs
Skill == Ability/Spell

Hope I helped you understand.

Wasbunny.6531:

‘Skill’ is not just having tools available to spam, or how fast you can spam them. It’s when to use those tools/abilities…in any game. It’s timing.

Even in games like bowling, where you have one skill (roll the ball) you have to know when to put some ‘english’ on it to get that 7-10 split or just hurl it as fast and as accurate as you can to get a strike.

Skill is not how many abilites you have.
Skill is not how fast you can use them.
Skill is not being the overwhelming outnumbering force.
Skill is reactive, knowing when to do something at the right time.

I’m done with this thread since it seems to boil down to the basic definition of ‘skill’ is for some reason lost on some people. Just please, either look up the definition of skill or post a video link showing how you completed any of the content by using no skill.

And btw, if anyone says it takes no skill to play a thief, they have never played a thief.

You seem very much confused by the term “SKILL”

its not about the talent you have playing a game.

It refers to your character’s Ability/Spells.

thats the true origin of the term in games like this. It started back from Tabletop RPGs, which calls its abilities “SKILLS”.

pulupulu.9730:

No. Skill is needed to execute strategy and tactic. It does not make them the same thing.

A bunch of people here just label all 3 under “skill”. Which is either over simplifying or just butchering the language.

A skill is something you do particularly well, something you have expertise in. It’s not oversimplifying it, or butchering language. That’s the literal definition of it.

What you mentioned is a skill in executing strategy and tactics. Someone who has skill in this doesn’t necessarily have skill in creating them, but creating and devising strategies and tactics can be a skill in itself.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

In that context the conversation is meaningless. There is no base level player “skill” required to succeed in this game, other level based games, or in skill based games.

There are “skilled” players in every type of game. There are “unskilled” players as well.
Game companies do not set a standard of “skill” to play a game, they sell to a broad demographic. They do not base games on some arbitrary player skill standard.

Skill based is a description of a mechanic, no more. While it may salve some peoples ego to assume a game takes more “skill”, they don’t. A player’s skill level can make games easier, but is not required to be successful in any MMO I have played. Earth And Beyond, SWG, WoW, LoTRO, STO,GW1, AoC, Everquest 1 and 2, CoH, EVE, etc etc etc.

I play this with a severe manual dexterity handicap. I do not wasd. I rarely dodge. I don’t run about like a headless chicken. My chars are set up to be passively tough, and that gives me enough time to mash buttons with my one functional left finger. I have 9 level 90s with no problems doing whatever it is I want to do, in spite of lacking the “skillz” people here are going on and on about.

Knowledge is the only “skill” necessary. People fail in games by not understanding mechanics, period. Physical dexterity is only needed in certain forms of PVP.. and the most dexterous person on earth can be beaten by latency and bad connectivity… or, by someone who simply knows the mechanics better.

Touche.

Although, as a final note since your description does make sense, I’d say it depends on the context in which they used the term ‘skill-based’.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

The greatest dodger and mover in this game will fail in GW1 trying to use those “skillz”. Does that make GW1 harder? No. No more than dodging makes this game harder. Not understanding the mechanics of either game will make them harder.. and that is it.

Well, I did say earlier on that different games require different skills, so I agree with you there.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t know, I have different memories of Guild Wars 1. Most of the game, more than 90% of it, could be beaten by looking up a build in PvX Wiki, speccing out your heroes and pretty much doing nothing yourself. There were exceptions but they were few and far between.

There were many times in hard mode I’d just walk away from the computer to do stuff and my heroes would take out patrols while I was afk.

Build Wars was a skill game if you made your own builds. But if you looked up builds (or just paid for runs) you could beat just about everything.

And we have a winner! Yes, build wars and PvX made GW1 as easy as people complain about GW2 being. They could have solved it in GW1 though by having a rotating/random set of penalties for doing certain things, environmental affects, or putting more punishing builds around (like those res paragons in the poisoned sand areas in elona… *!#^).

IndigoSundown.5419:

Skill in GW2 combat is primarily timing. You time when to dodge, when to use defensive buffs, when to heal, when to use offensive buffs, when to reposition, etc. The rest is knowing which attacks or utility skills to use when. Timing the invulnerability frames can require both a good computer, good connection and good twitch reflexes. Since you can increase your twitch reflexes to some degree (i.e., you can get better at it with practice), this does constitute the development of skill.

Skilled play is, unfortunately, not required in some of the activities the game provides. Thus, the negative comments about herd play and overuse of #1 skill. It’s also unfortunate that most of the reward carrots provided in the game steer players towards herd play. This is a side effect of wanting large numbers of players to do content in the open world simultaneously.

What’s the point in even trying to dodge in the middle of a zerg, assuming you can even see the telegraph with all the sparkly effect that invades the screen, reducing the fps to like one frame per minute?

Bagel.4598:

saalle.4623:

If u play a Thief then this game is skill based,if u play warrior then its not

Because stealthing and running away is so hard.

Obviously you’re not one of the 12DerPs. You do not understand the intricacy of L2P.

Thunderbrew.7034:

So many people in zergfest have zero skill and would not survive
in PvP.

I think this is a big part of what they mean.

Other MMOs are largely time-based, meaning you have to put in the time to get the gear to win. In GW2, all players have the best gear as soon as they enter the sPvP lobby, so it’s based on skill, not on how many hours you’ve played.

In PvE, of course, you could ride along in a giant mob, but in my opinion that’s not really what the game is about. I rarely do “world events” because the huge crowd makes actual gameplay mechanics far less fun.

When you play in a smaller group, you’ll see that there’s still a huge difference between someone who knows the mechanics (has the “skill”) and someone who doesn’t but has good gear.