Guild Wars 2

Let me take a second to distill the message of the original post, as it was a little to glib and unfocused:

If you are playing an aspect of the game for a “reward”, then this is not the game for you.

Sure, the various aspects of the game provide rewards, such as levels, items, and money; however, these rewards are ancillary to the actual game itself, which is instead focused on the EXPERIENCE of the game.

Notice that the rewards are modest and, in general, do not result in dramatic contributions to wealth or improved performance even from the most difficult of events and activities. Even the legendary items — which require a huge amount of time and expense to create — are not dramatic improvements over similar items of lower quality.

If you will remember, this was the case with the original Guild Wars. In that game, the level system stopped at level 20 and the item system reached a terminal baseline at an extremely close point after the final level. For nearly a decade the level cap and item power baseline were not increased, and this was thought by many to be a huge selling point of that game.

At the same time, this quickly and easily attained baseline was a turn-off to some potential players. There are those who actively seek advantages — who want to progress in power beyond content and other players so that they can leverage the power differential into easier victories. That is in and off itself not a problem, but it does run counter to many of the game systems of Guild Wars 2 and almost every single game system of Guild Wars 1.

So perhaps this isn’t the game for you. There is nothing wrong with that admission, and given that there is no monthly fee there is no harm in stepping away for several months while the game evolves — and perhaps you as well.

deriver.5381:

Rizzy.8293:

So now what do I have?
A heavily voice acted persistent world version of League of Leagends.

Every piece of credibility your post could have was lost when you compared Guild Wars with League of Legends. Really they are so disconnected to each other that I think you were just trolling and in no way interested on posting something meaningful.

No game will be good enough for everyone.

No, they didn’t lie about a single thing. I followed A.Net development of GW2 since it’s first days and I’m playing exactly the game I was expecting. If you are not, then your expectations were way off and that is your problem and fault.

My problem is with people who think the developers should change the whole game to meet the players’ expectations. Actually, sorry, let me correct myself: to meet their own expectations. Like something that took years to develop was that easy to change, anyways. My problem is with this kind of gamer who think they deserve everything their way and feel entitled to come here on the forums to make demands for it.

It is really this simple: if you really disliked this game, just go play something else. That is what I did with almost every other mmo out there. I’ve played them all, with a few exceptions. You name it, I’ve played it. And I’m sure you will never or have ever seen any post of mine complaining about core features and mechanics of any of them, and still I paid the same money everyone else did.

Ask for minor adjustments, fine… I won’t be a fanboy saying this game is perfect. No it has flaws, and its ok, nothing is perfect. An MMO is an ever evolving kind of game. If you played any other MMO before you would know this by now.

I’m just tired of people turning this forum on a “I was expecting this,kittenyou A.Net for not making MY own private and personal dream of a game come true.kittenyou!” mural.

Really so wvwvw isnt about assisting AI from point A to point B, capturing towers and opening clear paths to the enemies territory and defeating other players? :|

I guess I’ve been doing it wrong.

Ohwell.

Amadeus.5687:

Greetings everyone!

Many would start the topic with a long introduction about how many games they have played, how many hours they played this ect ect. But I won’t, cause it won’t change anything about what I’m going to say.

I been been reading the forums since they opened them! (woho). Hence, I haven’t been able to not notice, the huge amount of complains being raised on the forums. I won’t say all off them ain’t without reason, nor will I say the game is without flaws either(Like WvsW wait times, money rewards, and bugs). But the point I would like to raise, is against this “Challenge vs Reward”, “The game being to hard” and the “there is no endgame and it fells like a grind”.

I know many of you want “New gear with large numbers on”, so you can use this “new gear with with large numbers on, to get gear with EVEN larger numbers on”. You want a carrot in front of you, telling you to “go do that, then this is yours!”. And I’m glad to tell you this: There is plenty of MMORPG’s out there, doing just that! yay! Then you can level to max level, be forced to do dungeons after dungeon, or PvP for insane amount’s of time, to get the “gear with the best numbers”, and start the entire chain again (See the theory called Skinner’s Box to learn about why this system works)
t:)

Where are OP getting this bigger numbers kittens. I have not read a single thread asking for statted gear. What i do see is ppl wanting a reward for their time. Ive come to realize this game is to be played for a bit then shelved till new content comes out. B/c in less than 300 hrs you can have everything you want in this game. Except rewarding loot you didnt grind a dungeon for. 100% map, everything. As i have. with the exception of a legendary. Only casuals are putting these threads up. Who are you to tell me what i paid for isnt for me.

Bloody.8769:

oh regarding the Skinner box, alot of folk have been quoting it without really giving it enough thought. Many better read and better educated behavioural scientists have already discounted the Skinner box idea to be applied to gaming. A better reasoning is that humans are by nature living in a Skinner Box. Yes you all criticising all the WoW players while living the dream is quite the irony. Look around you, you are CONDITIONED to act in a certain way by society, by your upbringing, your friends, you work, your social circles , the media, the games you play, the work you do, the tv you watch etc. Human conditioning exists within you,as you are constantly trying to feel better, stronger, richer, less hungry etc. No, the hilarity of all those quoting the Skinner box without realizing they live in one shows you how blissful ignorance is.

First of, as you say yourself: This game ain’t for you. It won’t give you your shines, and there ain’t anything to do about it. The game just ain’t designed for that sort of reward, lucky for you, plenty of other games do it, pick one of those.

second, I do know about Skinner’s Box exist all around us, see such a simple thing as grades in school, or laws for that matter. They all use a Reward/Punishment model that Skinner’s Box is build around. What you fail to see is: That ain’t fun. It’s designed to manage how we behave and what we do.

When I open up a game, I want it to entertain me, to give me fun, let me experience something. Let it be a story or great things with my friends. All most every game will have a little “Reward and Punisment in them”, it’s just a matter about the amount. Let’s take it up now: WoW, the biggest MMORPG. They overuse Skinner’s Box to the amount of addiction. They program it’s players to do a daily dungeon, to get better gear with higher numbers, so they can do harder dungeons, which you need higher numbers for, and that is how it goes. Your ain’t having fun, your addicted to the reward. Doing your Daily heroic won’t amuse you, it’s only the desire for the shine that keeps you going.

If that is what make’s you happy, then sure, go nuts in these kinds of games. But players like me, try to find games where the amount of “Reward and punishment” ain’t found in the same sick amounts. I don’t want to be forced into doing stuff I don’t want to, so I actually can do what I want to do.

Tiresias.6473:

Let me take a second to distill the message of the original post, as it was a little to glib and unfocused:

If you are playing an aspect of the game for a “reward”, then this is not the game for you.

Sure, the various aspects of the game provide rewards, such as levels, items, and money; however, these rewards are ancillary to the actual game itself, which is instead focused on the EXPERIENCE of the game.

Notice that the rewards are modest and, in general, do not result in dramatic contributions to wealth or improved performance even from the most difficult of events and activities. Even the legendary items — which require a huge amount of time and expense to create — are not dramatic improvements over similar items of lower quality.

If you will remember, this was the case with the original Guild Wars. In that game, the level system stopped at level 20 and the item system reached a terminal baseline at an extremely close point after the final level. For nearly a decade the level cap and item power baseline were not increased, and this was thought by many to be a huge selling point of that game.

At the same time, this quickly and easily attained baseline was a turn-off to some potential players. There are those who actively seek advantages — who want to progress in power beyond content and other players so that they can leverage the power differential into easier victories. That is in and off itself not a problem, but it does run counter to many of the game systems of Guild Wars 2 and almost every single game system of Guild Wars 1.

So perhaps this isn’t the game for you. There is nothing wrong with that admission, and given that there is no monthly fee there is no harm in stepping away for several months while the game evolves — and perhaps you as well.

Lets put it this way, the difference between Elite 15k Armour and 1.5k armour in guildwars is visual aesthetics.

Now if Rares and Exotics in guildwars2 followed that principal, no problem.
I wouldnt have to save up 18gold just to get the base line standard of my level to become an effective member in my team BUT this isn’t the case, the Exotics boost your stats by quite a bit, it means you’ll be on par with all the other people in exotics and slightly better than those in rares.

Legendaries on the other hand, follow the same rule as 15k elite armour 1.5k armour in guildwars and are for visual reasons, as a ranger my Legendary bow looks like a unicorn…. I dont need that.

Death Aggro.9602:

Where are OP getting this bigger numbers kittens. I have not read a single thread asking for statted gear. What i do see is ppl wanting a reward for their time. Ive come to realize this game is to be played for a bit then shelved till new content comes out. B/c in less than 300 hrs you can have everything you want in this game. Except rewarding loot you didnt grind a dungeon for. 100% map, everything. As i have. with the exception of a legendary. Only casuals are putting these threads up. Who are you to tell me what i paid for isnt for me.

This is what’s wrong: “wanting a reward for their time”. Stop using your time on something that ain’t fun. Games are made to have FUN. There is no one, that have to reward you for spending you free time on a GAME for FUN. If you don’t have fun playing a game, then the game ain’t for you, and you should move a long. And Who am I to tell you the game ain’t for you? I’m no one, and that’s not the message I’m sending. But clearly, if you ain’t amused by the game your playing, and want to change the core functions of the game and one of the huge selling points for many other players, your might very well have brought something you won’t be happy with

I really don’t understand all the people complaining about the grind at 80. What is grindy, exactly? The cosmetic looks of your character? Because this is the only grind this game has.

In every other game, you grind for power. Your character will never be fully developed and be 100% competitive to every other one above you if you don’t have the very best top gear yourself. You will always have the feeling that the other guy with top gear will contribute more than you to any group.

And so you feel forced to grind, so you can “be as much” as everyone else.

What happens here? You will never ever be forced to grind just to compete. You grind to have the cosmetic look you want. It has nothing to do with your character development, just with you own necessity for aesthetics.

I wonder if they make cosmetic gear grind easier… I wouldn’t give a week before people start complaining about “What now? Where are the meaningful content to be my carrot? I need a carrot!”

I’m sure there would be complainers even if A.Net decided to insert a completely useless object named “The shiny piece of a rotten peanut” that you cold wield and /emote with but with, but with a drop rate of 0,0001% from a world boss… I’m sure there would be people here complaining that it’s not fair A.Net made them grind their eyes out for that piece of “meaningful content” they so much want. And if they can’t have it in a reasonable time of, 20 gameplay hours, their whole fun is spoiled and they don’t see a reason to keep playing.

It is just sad.

Death Aggro.9602:

Amadeus.5687:

Greetings everyone!

Many would start the topic with a long introduction about how many games they have played, how many hours they played this ect ect. But I won’t, cause it won’t change anything about what I’m going to say.

I been been reading the forums since they opened them! (woho). Hence, I haven’t been able to not notice, the huge amount of complains being raised on the forums. I won’t say all off them ain’t without reason, nor will I say the game is without flaws either(Like WvsW wait times, money rewards, and bugs). But the point I would like to raise, is against this “Challenge vs Reward”, “The game being to hard” and the “there is no endgame and it fells like a grind”.

I know many of you want “New gear with large numbers on”, so you can use this “new gear with with large numbers on, to get gear with EVEN larger numbers on”. You want a carrot in front of you, telling you to “go do that, then this is yours!”. And I’m glad to tell you this: There is plenty of MMORPG’s out there, doing just that! yay! Then you can level to max level, be forced to do dungeons after dungeon, or PvP for insane amount’s of time, to get the “gear with the best numbers”, and start the entire chain again (See the theory called Skinner’s Box to learn about why this system works)
t:)

Where are OP getting this bigger numbers kittens. I have not read a single thread asking for statted gear. What i do see is ppl wanting a reward for their time. Ive come to realize this game is to be played for a bit then shelved till new content comes out. B/c in less than 300 hrs you can have everything you want in this game. Except rewarding loot you didnt grind a dungeon for. 100% map, everything. As i have. with the exception of a legendary. Only casuals are putting these threads up. Who are you to tell me what i paid for isnt for me.

Why do you want a reward for your time?

That is the “Skinner Box” problem that the OP brought up: so many other MMOs have ingrained this “task-reward” system into MMO players that they simply cannot step off the treadmill.

Did you ever play Baulder’s Gate or Planescape: Torment or any of those other old-school isometric RPGs? There were locations to explore and things to do that dramatically violated the risk/reward or time/reward calculation.

Why did they exist? Because some developer thought that a player may enjoy the challenge. It turns out that they are correct: those old SPRPGs are some of the best-remembered games even to this day.

Last night I ran though a challenge area that took an hour and multiple deaths to complete. At the end I got a chest with a handful of items, less money than it cost to repair my gear, and some achievement points — totally not “worth” either the time or the risk. Nevertheless, I had a blast and that, after all, is the point of a game.

“Loot seeking” does not need to be the focus of every MMO. Some of them can just focus on giving you a living, breathing world and a fun, level playing field for PvP.

deriver.5381:

Rizzy.8293:

So now what do I have?
A heavily voice acted persistent world version of League of Leagends.

Every piece of credibility your post could have was lost when you compared Guild Wars with League of Legends. Really they are so disconnected to each other that I think you were just trolling and in no way interested on posting something meaningful.

No game will be good enough for everyone.

No, they didn’t lie about a single thing. I followed A.Net development of GW2 since it’s first days and I’m playing exactly the game I was expecting. If you are not, then your expectations were way off and that is your problem and fault.

My problem is with people who think the developers should change the whole game to meet the players’ expectations. Actually, sorry, let me correct myself: to meet their own expectations. Like something that took years to develop was that easy to change, anyways. My problem is with this kind of gamer who think they deserve everything their way and feel entitled to come here on the forums to make demands for it.

It is really this simple: if you really disliked this game, just go play something else. That is what I did with almost every other mmo out there. I’ve played them all, with a few exceptions. You name it, I’ve played it. And I’m sure you will never or have ever seen any post of mine complaining about core features and mechanics of any of them, and still I paid the same money everyone else did.

Ask for minor adjustments, fine… I won’t be a fanboy saying this game is perfect. No it has flaws, and its ok, nothing is perfect. An MMO is an ever evolving kind of game. If you played any other MMO before you would know this by now.

I’m just tired of people turning this forum on a “I was expecting this! Why A.Net? Why didn’t you make MY own private and personal dream of a game come true. Why???” mural.

Rizzy.8293:

Lets put it this way, the difference between Elite 15k Armour and 1.5k armour in guildwars is visual aesthetics.

Now if Rares and Exotics in guildwars2 followed that principal, no problem.
I wouldnt have to save up 18gold just to get the base line standard of my level to become an effective member in my team BUT this isn’t the case, the Exotics boost your stats by quite a bit, it means you’ll be on par with all the other people in exotics and slightly better than those in rares.

Legendaries on the other hand, follow the same rule as 15k elite armour 1.5k armour in guildwars and are for visual reasons, as a ranger my Legendary bow looks like a unicorn…. I dont need that.

First off, great post Tiresias.6473

Second, if that is true what you say Rizzy (which I haven’t felt the case for me, I only bother getting 3 exotics and I haven’t felt like an “Hindrance”) BUT if the difference about rares and exotic is that big, then the development need to adjust the numbers! and then that should be solved!

deriver.5381:

I really don’t understand all the people complaining about the grind at 80. What is grindy, exactly? The cosmetic looks of your character? Because this is the only grind this game has.

In every other game, you grind for power. Your character will never be fully developed and be 100% competitive to every other one above you if you don’t have the very best top gear yourself. You will always have the feeling that the other guy with top gear will contribute more than you to any group.

And so you feel forced to grind, so you can “be as much” as everyone else.

What happens here? You will never ever be forced to grind just to compete. You grind to have the cosmetic look you want. It has nothing to do with your character development, just with you own necessity for aesthetics.

I wonder if they make cosmetic gear grind easier… I wouldn’t give a week before people start complaining about “What not? Where are the meaningful content to be my carrot? I need a carrot!”

I’m sure there would be complainers even if A.Net decided to insert a completely useless object named “The shiny piece of a rotten peanut” that you cold wield and /emote with but with, but with a drop rate of 0,0001% from a world boss… I’m sure there would be people here complaining that it’s not fair A.Net made them grind their eyes out for that piece of “meaningful content” they so much want. And if they can’t have it in a reasonable time of, 20 gameplay hours, their whole fun is spoiled and they don’t see a reason to keep playing.

It is just sad.

There absolutely should be random skinned drops or something. I guess most ppl just have to much content left. Im of firm belief if you havnt seen all the content. Dont post about how those who have finished it are being vocal.
b/c there isnt that much after 100%

Death Aggro.9602:

There absolutely should be random skinned drops or something. I guess most ppl just have to much content left. Im of firm belief if you havnt seen all the content. Dont post about how those who have finished it are being vocal.
b/c there isnt that much after 100%

But Death Aggro… There is sill WvsW, there is sPvP, there is alts, there is dungeons you can keep do, there is new stuff to craft, and there is random events and puzzles you can show your friends or do with them. If all that ain’t enough for you, then be happy for the fun you had with your 300+ hours played you paid 50£ for? Why do you think the dungeon will be more fun to play again, just because you will get a reward? i’s still the same dungeon.

It’s fine that you love the game, but when all topics are moving in the same direction it means that A LOT of players are not happy with the recent changes. It’s just not the normal QQers who are saying that this is OP or some other random things they love to cry about.

I like the game too, but they need to make less changes. As soon as something is profitable it gets destroyed. They crafting exploit was a real problem. 25 silvers every 45 mins, wasnt. And god I would never do the same dongeon more than 4-5 times in a row, it’s just not fun. But because some HARDCORE players went ahead to farm it until if got nerfed, we all have to pay the price. No mobs grinding, no event grinding no dongeons grinding… But go ahead and grind those 1300 badges you need for you armor. Or maybe 120 golds for you Tier 3?

Rizzy.8293:

Oh and being rewarded for doing something challenging is part of games being fun.
Otherwise you’re just wasting time.

No, it is just wasting time. The point of a game is to have fun, I always find it amusing how some people think the point is to get better stats for some non-existent pixels, especially when many of them actively moan about how boring it is having to do some dungeon/dialy quest/raid, etc for the billionth time in order to get that better gear for their non-existent pixels.

I don’t need to be rewarded (other than the reward of beating a challenge) when I play an RTS, or a MOBA or a zillion other games, if yo don’t find the game play in itself fun, then playing for non-existant rewards is just lame.

DanZero.4956:

I like the game too, but they need to make less changes. As soon as something is profitable it gets destroyed. They crafting exploit was a real problem. 25 silvers every 45 mins, wasnt. And god I would never do the same dongeon more than 4-5 times in a row, it’s just not fun. But because some HARDCORE players went ahead to farm it until if got nerfed, we all have to pay the price.

I believe that if you are not one of those who mindlessly farmed the same dungeons for hours and hours, you won’t be affected by the recent changes. So why complain about it? It was made to stop those extreme hardcore players from unbalance the economy, and how I see, it is a good thing for everyone. Is it not?

Unless you are one of the farmers yourself.

Amadeus.5687:

Rizzy.8293:

Lets put it this way, the difference between Elite 15k Armour and 1.5k armour in guildwars is visual aesthetics.

Now if Rares and Exotics in guildwars2 followed that principal, no problem.
I wouldnt have to save up 18gold just to get the base line standard of my level to become an effective member in my team BUT this isn’t the case, the Exotics boost your stats by quite a bit, it means you’ll be on par with all the other people in exotics and slightly better than those in rares.

Legendaries on the other hand, follow the same rule as 15k elite armour 1.5k armour in guildwars and are for visual reasons, as a ranger my Legendary bow looks like a unicorn…. I dont need that.

First off, great post Tiresias.6473

Second, if that is true what you say Rizzy (which I haven’t felt the case for me, I only bother getting 3 exotics and I haven’t felt like an “Hindrance”) BUT if the difference about rares and exotic is that big, then the development need to adjust the numbers! and then that should be solved!

I wouldn’t mind if they did that.
But if they were just devalue the power of exotic stats by bringing rares up to the same level the lots of people would be pretty annoyed.

If that ugly crafted emblazoned set cost only 5 – 8gold thats fair more newly turned level 80s would be ready and geared up with baseline stats and we could all enjoy all that tyria has to offer. But thats not the case, so now that money is hard to come by because of the anti farming feature they put in, good luck getting the rest of your set

I can’t find the wiki page with a comparison chart between item qualities. The difference isn’t really that much.

I don’t remember the numbers exactly but I think rare items have 88% of an exotic numbers in stats or damage.

Guys, clearly the only way to “save” this game is to turn it into a carbon-copy of the game it was supposed to be different from.

I mean, it worked for all those other recent MMO’s, right?

Sylosi.6503:

Rizzy.8293:

Oh and being rewarded for doing something challenging is part of games being fun.
Otherwise you’re just wasting time.

No, it is just wasting time. The point of a game is to have fun, I always find it amusing how some people think the point is to get better stats for some non-existent pixels, especially when many of them actively moan about how boring it is having to do some dungeon/dialy quest/raid, etc for the billionth time in order to get that better gear for their non-existent pixels.

I don’t need to be rewarded (other than the reward of beating a challenge) when I play an RTS, or a MOBA or a zillion other games, if yo don’t find the game play in itself fun, then playing for non-existant rewards is just lame.

I killed someone in PVP my reward is knowing I bested another person in combat = fun.

I killed someone in PVP but Im a pacifist Im only doing this to grind for title = not fun.

So poor people need to do those dungeons to get their baseline level 80 gear with stats that will make them more effective team players on a pretty hard dungeon, something that they cant do right now

Exotic crafted armour sets go as high as 18 gold to aquire.

Id like you to look at Rare and Exotic and compare the stats on them, they’re pretty big.

DusK.3849:

Guys, clearly the only way to “save” this game is to turn it into a carbon-copy of the game it was supposed to be different from.

I mean, it worked for all those other recent MMO’s, right?

Couldn’t have said it better myself. The only one I believe will have some future is Rift.

DusK.3849:

Guys, clearly the only way to “save” this game is to turn it into a carbon-copy of the game it was supposed to be different from.

I mean, it worked for all those other recent MMO’s, right?

Or to uphold what the game promises in the first place, which it hasnt delivered.

The difference on stats between rare and exotic never overrides player skill. A team of five good level-80 players rockin’ level-80 whites can clear any dungeon.

No, I’m not being sarcastic. You “uber 1337 raiderz” put way too much stock in your gear. This isn’t a numbers game anymore.

deriver.5381:

I can’t find the wiki page with a comparison chart between item qualities. The difference isn’t really that much.

I don’t remember the numbers exactly but I think rare items have 88% of an exotic numbers in stats or damage.

Incase you havent noticed.

Traveler = Magic Find
Carrion = Vit + Toughness
Beserker = Power + Precision + Crit Damage bonus
Rampager = Precision + Power + Condition damage

Items in Guildwars2 are named according to what stats they boost and the stat difference is significant between rare and exotic

DusK.3849:

The difference on stats between rare and exotic never overrides player skill. A team of five good level-80 players rockin’ level-80 whites can clear any dungeon.

No, I’m not being sarcastic. You “uber 1337 raiderz” put way too much stock in your gear. This isn’t a numbers game anymore.

Have you tried it?

The OP talks about the skinner box model. I don’t think he understands how insane the grind for dungeon rewards is, or how bad the grind for karma is for karma weapons and karma armour. There is a carrot on a stick, there is a grindy end game, it’s all here, I have no idea what the OP is talking about if they can’t see this stuff.

Sorry OP but telling people to move on or that this game isn’t for you because of their complaints isn’t acceptable. It is no way to run a business and now way to treat any customers.

Rizzy.8293:

DusK.3849:

The difference on stats between rare and exotic never overrides player skill. A team of five good level-80 players rockin’ level-80 whites can clear any dungeon.

No, I’m not being sarcastic. You “uber 1337 raiderz” put way too much stock in your gear. This isn’t a numbers game anymore.

Have you tried it?

No, I can’t say I’ve tried specifically that, but for all I know, the guys I ran explorables with may as well be undergeared considering I don’t check.

Seriously, the only indicator in this game that you’re ready to do content is if you’re ready to do content. If you’re throwing down against bosses and not dying, it doesn’t matter what you’re wearing.

If you’re dying and blaming it on gear, you’re scapegoating; the problem’s between your chair and your keyboard. Realize that first, then get better.

Shiren.9532:

The OP talks about the skinner box model. I don’t think he understands how insane the grind for dungeon rewards is, or how bad the grind for karma is for karma weapons and karma armour. There is a carrot on a stick, there is a grindy end game, it’s all here, I have no idea what the OP is talking about if they can’t see this stuff.

Still not as insane as this statement

Dusk

The difference on stats between rare and exotic never overrides player skill. A team of five good level-80 players rockin’ level-80 whites can clear any dungeon.
No, I’m not being sarcastic. You “uber 1337 raiderz” put way too much stock in your gear. This isn’t a numbers game anymore.

I really try hard to not be one that complains and I actually somewhat despise the hardcore players that already have 150 hrs+ and are the ones complaining the most but I promise you ANET isn’t happy with the state of the game right now. I would bet money they feel they have fallen short on many of there intended designs and will be working overtime to improve them.

The difference between tiers of gear is very small. A full set of rares vs a full set of exotics is less than a 5% total upgrade.

It would stand to reason the difference between a full set of whites and full set of exotics is a 20% difference, if all are separated by 5%. So yes, in theory, a fully coordinated group, on TS3/Vent, could quite easily do dungeons in whites.

DusK.3849:

Rizzy.8293:

DusK.3849:

The difference on stats between rare and exotic never overrides player skill. A team of five good level-80 players rockin’ level-80 whites can clear any dungeon.

No, I’m not being sarcastic. You “uber 1337 raiderz” put way too much stock in your gear. This isn’t a numbers game anymore.

Have you tried it?

No, I can’t say I’ve tried specifically that, but for all I know, the guys I ran explorables with may as well be undergeared considering I don’t check.

Seriously, the only indicator in this game that you’re ready to do content is if you’re ready to do content. If you’re throwing down against bosses and not dying, it doesn’t matter what you’re wearing.

If you’re dying and blaming it on gear, you’re scapegoating; the problem’s between your chair and your keyboard. Realize that first, then get better.

So okay, let me get this straight, You dont know for a fact that the people you are doing the party with are undergeared but youd assume they would be because somehow the damage output is still pretty high because…. what exactly?

Were you undergeared? If you were, you really should gear up and stop letting people carry you through dungeons, otherwise…

Heres an idea, go form a party do explorable the harder path of Citadel of Flame in whites, everyone in white and see if you can keep up the DPS to bring down silver mobs.

Hell I’ll join you even!

@Shiren: Your wrong, because the difference here is: I don’t need this gear to play the game and do everything there ins the game: It’s pure cosmetics. Sure, they have been kind and added something that people enjoying “grind” can get. But it ain’t needed for anything but the looks, if your into that, there is your motivation. Hence it’s not Skinner’s Box, there is no punishment for not getting that gear.

@DirtyDeeeds: Now your just being silly, I don’t like sushi, I really think fish should be cooked, so with that silly of ideas of yours, I should be able to go into a sushi only restaurant “and demand something else” because I don’t like sushi? What you fail to realize is Anet ain’t aiming for the usual MMO players most games go for. They aim for “my” group of players. You can never make everyone happy, and this time you guys ain’t the winners.

Hostar.1390:

The difference between tiers of gear is very small. A full set of rares vs a full set of exotics is less than a 5% total upgrade.

It would stand to reason the difference between a full set of whites and full set of exotics is a 20% difference, if all are separated by 5%. So yes, in theory, a fully coordinated group, on TS3/Vent, could quite easily do dungeons in whites.

Id still like to see that

Rizzy.8293:

Still not as insane as this statement

A skill-based MMO?! That’s craaaaaazy!

It’s hilarious how so many people have this “I’m max level, but I gotta get my numbers up before I can do x” endgame mentality. Then GW2 comes along, does away with that stuff, and it’s a shock, like a CoD fanboy playing Unreal Tournament 3 for the first time and going “Gaaaaah, why is everything so fast and where’s ma prone”.

Proeliator.8740:

I really try hard to not be one that complains and I actually somewhat despise the hardcore players that already have 150 hrs+ and are the ones complaining the most but I promise you ANET isn’t happy with the state of the game right now. I would bet money they feel they have fallen short on many of there intended designs and will be working overtime to improve them.

There is all ways work for improvement! Don’t misunderstand me, I see plenty of stuff that needs work! And of cause we have to complain and tell them to fix broken stuff. The point I raise is we shouldn’t whine and kitten other a core function of the game that is the selling point for many of the players.

DusK.3849:

Rizzy.8293:

Still not as insane as this statement

A skill-based MMO?! That’s craaaaaazy!

It’s hilarious how so many people have this “I’m max level, but I gotta get my numbers up before I can do x” endgame mentality. Then GW2 comes along, does away with that stuff, and it’s a shock, like a CoD fanboy playing Unreal Tournament 3 for the first time and going “Gaaaaah, why is everything so fast and where’s ma prone”.

I tried wearing level 1 armour in guildwars to do Underworld, I got smacked for 14k damage.
Pretty high considering at most people have anywhere from 450 – 590 hp in guildwars.

But yeah Id really like to put this to the test, how about this we do a simple CM explorable run, your explorer buddies and me in whites, its one of the easier explorable dungeons.

Also no trinkets or jewelry.

No actually screw CM, Lets do ARAH in white, I’ve never done Arah before.

Rizzy.8293:

deriver.5381:

I can’t find the wiki page with a comparison chart between item qualities. The difference isn’t really that much.

I don’t remember the numbers exactly but I think rare items have 88% of an exotic numbers in stats or damage.

Incase you havent noticed.

Traveler = Magic Find
Carrion = Vit + Toughness
Beserker = Power + Precision + Crit Damage bonus
Rampager = Precision + Power + Condition damage

Items in Guildwars2 are named according to what stats they boost and the stat difference is significant between rare and exotic

Not sure why you came with the names as they have nothing to do with what I was talking about, but yes I knew them all.

Now, to back up my claims, I bring this link: http://www.guildwars2junkies.com/2012/08/23/guide-weapon-and-armor-stats-explained/

Check it out if you want. They bring the 13% number, and the wiki 12%. Its exatly the difference in power between rares and exotics. If you have a full set of rares and someone else a full set (with the same attributes) of exotics, he will be 12~13% stronger than you.

It’s not an opinion, it’s a fact.

Rizzy.8293:

I tried wearing level 1 armour

Did I say level 1 armor? Go look at my post again.

DusK.3849:

Rizzy.8293:

I tried wearing level 1 armour

Did I say level 1 armor? Go look at my post again.

So I take it you’re not gonna put your theory of whites in Arah explorable mode going to the test?

And here I thought you were gonna back up your statement .

Ohwell

Ang.2157:

Im one of those people that liked it when you picked a certain class and race combo based on it’s stats and abilities and actually did all the progress on your main.

I am focusing everything on my main in this game. If I do alts, it’s only to get a couple of achievements (the orders, mostly).

Can’t stand race locks. I do miss being a healer, but I don’t miss the bad attitude people had when they wouldn’t get out of the fire/lazors/etcetc and then kittened me out about them dying.

Each class actually does have its own niches, IMO. I understand that some games are doing things different, but I don’t see the point in raging at ANet about it. I’m tired of games before this mostly being like WoW. Instead of raging in WoW’s forums and demanding they change, I just stopped playing and subbing and went to this game instead.

Rizzy.8293:

So I take it you’re not gonna put your theory of whites in Arah explorable mode going to the test?

I would if I had four other good dungeon runners on Yak’s Bend.

Rizzy.8293:

Also no trinkets or jewelry.
No actually screw CM, Lets do ARAH in white, I’ve never done Arah before.

This actually sounds like a hella fun, I gotta set this up with some of my guild m8’s to see if we can do this :o

So incase someone else says gear doesnt matter, Let me just show you my longbow vs a rare longbow

You’re right gear doesnt matter in GW2, but GW2 Standardizes its weapons and gears to the point that Exotic Armour does have an upper hand against Rares

Exotic armour is the baseline of what a level 80 should be doing to be an effective member of the team, you can use rares and let people carry you through harder instances that’s fine but I hope you do plan to upgrade to exotics soon and start being a contributing member of the team.

And by standardizing what I mean is, you’ll be on par with someone in the same level tier armor/weapon as you in the case of the longbow over a its quite significant, the base itself 920 vs 815, thats more than 100 And that’s not including the +to crit damage on beserker stuff.

Exotic vs Legendary, is more or less for aesthetics reasons but exotics is pretty much the baseline of a level 80s eq.

DusK.3849:

Rizzy.8293:

So I take it you’re not gonna put your theory of whites in Arah explorable mode going to the test?

I would if I had four other good dungeon runners on Yak’s Bend.

Oh so now its a matter of I cant find the people to do it.
Right cool then.

That does seem to be a bit to much difference in the damage, on the other hand, the stats is about what I would say is right! Also that’s what it seems to be the case with Armor/Jewels

It is exactly 12~13% difference as I told before… Is it a lot? I don’t think so… Go play WoW and see the difference between a fresh level 80 character and a 2 months old one…

Let me tell you, it is WAY more than 12~13%.

Here you can close this gap (that by the way, will be the ONLY gap there will ever exist) pretty fast. Just craft your exotics like mostly everyone else did. Sell the materials you won’t need and buy the ones you will. If you are not a crafter, ask a guildie to make them for you.

Seems like your right yeah! Also, you could combo that with a little gear brought for karma! if you had been playing around with a few different things like WvsW and plenty of events you should be able to buy 1-2 things. So I guess it really ain’t that much of problem!

I’ll address my thoughts on the title of this thread “This is maybe just not the game for you”…… I’ve been playing about 3 weeks off and on, have a level 29 Mesmer, and can say that I’m sceptical about staying with it. My main game for 3 years has been Lord of the Rings Online, but I’ve played WAR, Star Wars, Minecraft, Rift, a little WoW, etc… but I’ve always gone back to playing my little girl hobbits in LOTRO. Why? I think there are several reasons why I give up all the games except LOTRO:
1- My attachment to my characters… the developers have made them more life-like than any other game I’ve played, outfits are graphically very prominent when looking at another toon, faces and physical body types are appealing.
2- The story line is from a real book story, and not just a bunch of made-up nonsense just to keep the game going.
3- The landscape is very realistic and colors are real, not the fakey brights like WoW, WAR, GW2. The enemies are really scary….
4- There’s in-game audio voice, so that when you join groups you can talk to each other (most of the time people have voice)… that results in an experience of laughing and talking strategies with tons of people you don’t know, which doesn’t exist in GW2 and most other games.. 5- Most of the time the Chat consists of tons of people looking for groups or more to joing their group… you can always jump into something and have fun with others, no matter if you’ve done it 50 times.
6-There are group instances at all levels from 20 and up. No matter what level you are at, there’s instances in your area that require between 3 and 24 people.
7- Crafting is understandable (need I say more?) and very profitable.
8-The roles of each class are very well-defined, so that it’s like going into a real battle with a group of folks that each know their roles, and it’s easy to know when someone’s messed up (which can be irritating or a huge laugh, depending)…. there’s healers, tanks, dps, crowd control, etc… which are very clearly laid out… This role-clarity causes folks to want to be the best _ they can be… I want to be the best Burglar I can be, so I don’t mind doing an instance tons of times because I learn a lot, still at max level, about my skills and how to use them under different circumstances.
9- Group battles seem to be visually more appealing, in that the affects seem more defined and easy to tell what’s actually going on (not just a bunch of sparks, lights, and stuff flying around).
10- There’s always something extra to do that is actually a lot of fun, such as the seasonal festivals… the Fall Festival is coming up, where there’s a haunted hobbit house that’s just like a real haunted house you’d make up.. secret panels in walls, stuff jumping out at you, etc… There’s bobbing for apples, etc… and you get tokens to spend on new horses and cool emotes and pranks. New cool looking horses are always something folks are after.
No one get me wrong… I’m not advocating the game of LOTRO in this post, but I’m telling the things that draw me to a game and keep me there… If some company, somewhere could make a game that provided the similar 10 things I’ve listed above, I think it would be a HUGE hit.

Hostar.1390:

The difference between tiers of gear is very small. A full set of rares vs a full set of exotics is less than a 5% total upgrade.

It would stand to reason the difference between a full set of whites and full set of exotics is a 20% difference, if all are separated by 5%. So yes, in theory, a fully coordinated group, on TS3/Vent, could quite easily do dungeons in whites.

The problem is there IS difference in stats. That means a team in exotics has a 20% advantage over a team in all whites.

Isn’t this the thing that anti-gear stat progression are saying they DO NOT WANT…yet it is already in game…

Amadeus.5687:

Death Aggro.9602:

There absolutely should be random skinned drops or something. I guess most ppl just have to much content left. Im of firm belief if you havnt seen all the content. Dont post about how those who have finished it are being vocal.
b/c there isnt that much after 100%

But Death Aggro… There is sill WvsW, there is sPvP, there is alts, there is dungeons you can keep do, there is new stuff to craft, and there is random events and puzzles you can show your friends or do with them. If all that ain’t enough for you, then be happy for the fun you had with your 300+ hours played you paid 50£ for? Why do you think the dungeon will be more fun to play again, just because you will get a reward? i’s still the same dungeon.

Not a Pvp Player. That kills two points. As said by many threads crafting is useless. Costs more to craft than you can sell it for. Its a gold sink. or have you not maxed any crafting yet? Do the puzzles for………..exactly. While some are fun you get notta in the end. So what am i progressing there? And i paid for CE. 179 USD, but thx. Obviously you speak from fandom and not from an experienced lvl 80. You should reread my post you quoted. A dungeon with a reward is a dungeon worth doing. Obviously you sir have not completed them all yet.