Guild Wars 2

Hi. My name is Andry. I am not in any way an exploiter. I did Citadel of Flame, alot. My group worked hard and we invested a ton of time for what gear we got. We got on Mumble, we communicated, we used combos (25 stacks of might for all!), and above all even though it was a bit grindy, we enjoyed it. We played the dungeon precisely as it was presented to us. We didn’t zerg any encounters, we didn’t use geometry to bug out encounters, we didn’t use speed buffs. We did the dungeon as it was designed.

The reason why we did CoF instead of other explorables? Because of three very important factors, the “sweet spot” of dungeons:
1) It was challenging, but not too challenging.
2) The reward was worth the time.
3) It didn’t take too long. Most people do not want to spend more than 30 minutes in a single unit of content. CoF was less than this, so it fit perfect.

Now, you changed the dungeon. Fine. You think it’s your game, not ours. You have a vision and you want to persue it. Again, fine.

But you must absolutely communicate with us. You cannot hide things. You cannot be dishonest. No matter how many times you edit those patch notes or make comments on other threads, in your initial draft of the patch notes (which by the way came hours after the patch when they should be in our hands the very second the servers come down) there was no mention of the changes you made to CoF.

Why? I have no idea. Some people will suggest that you don’t want to confess changes that will be viewed as unpopular. Whether or not it’s true, it is certainly well within our right as paying customers to suggest so.

Here was your response:

There were certain things that could be done (and were being done) in both CM and CoF that were not intended to be possible (read: exploits), we fixed them. End of story!

And then you closed the thread. Do you have any idea how disrespectful his is? Do you understand that this is precisely the opposite attitude you want to take. You may take umbrage at me talking down to you in this way but I implore you…. please do not continue this kind of communication with your players.

We should have a discussion about where you want dungeons to be and there should be a negotiation about what we want dungeons to be, but we can’t have that conversation and we won’t have that conversation if you are going to accuse every player getting any kind of consistent reward from your dungeons an exploiter and then shutting the discussion down.

This is the stuff that turns into bad press real fast. And if you haven’t learned it already, MMO players are the most fickle and finicky game players. You have a small window to impress with your service. It doesn’t matter one bit how beautiful your world is, how compelling your combat is, or how immersive and fun your game experience is. If your communication with players is lacking, if your communication with players is hostile, if your players do not trust or even worse if they are afraid to play your game for fear of being labelled exploiter or cheater… nobody is going to play it. Edited by moderator. Caps.

This is the best post regarding this topic and explains exactly how I feel.

I agree completely. It’s just plain rude!

Definitely, felt as if I just got slapped in the face. All we were doing as a community is pointing out our findings and trying to inform each other since things weren’t adding up. And for doing that we got that reply? I totally agree with the OP sit down and talk to us, I know your busy but were on the forums to listen (some to complain) but the majority of us love the game and we just didn’t understand the changes. That is all. End of Story!
Edited by moderator: Please refrain from using caps

+1

I would like to know exactly what is changed with each patchnote, like how long skill timers have increased or decreased, how difficulty of dungeons have been increased or decreased, etc. If you fix a dungeon due to exploits, whats the harm in telling us what the exploit was if its fixed?

Also it would be nice to know that other dungeons were changed that were not listed.

I feel not letting the player know specifics to the changes is deceitful, and removes enjoyment from playing the game.

To throw in my piece, I met, interacted with, and befriended more people doing speed runs of CM than in the actual world. It was akittengood thing that was going, made a lot of people happy, and balanced it out for people who didn’t have a lot of time to dedicate. Between a full time job, a part time job, and being a full time student, I get very brief windows to play. Until today, I hadn’t logged in for about 5 days. Before that short marathon, I didn’t get to play for almost a week.

You know what was nice though? I could go, meet some people, and catch up a little experience and money wise with my friends who played more than I did, just by going to CM. I still don’t have an 80, but being able to go up 3-4 levels earlier today was akittengood feeling.

And then, when the patch released, I got absolutely rolled, lost a lot in repairs… and had no clue why, for hours.

Two things:
1) You originally gave me an infraction for this:
Moderator Notes:
Please do not make posts that contest the actions of a moderator. If you feel any action taken by a moderator was inappropriate, send an e-mail to forum@arena.net and the issue will be looked into.
Now you are changing it to giving me an infraction because I had two words capitalized for emphasis in a multi-paragraph post?

2) You edited out the “end of story” from your original post that helped precipitate that issue. You can see it quoted in the op of this thread.

I’m still not sure what the “exploits” were. In my runs we did everything legitimately; we just did it as quickly as possible.

As far as I can tell they just lowered the rewards because they got tired of people getting money faster than they wanted them to, which is a major problem in GW2. When pretty things cost 100 gold and when you get to 80, it’s the only thing left to do other than revisiting locations for no real reason, it results in irritated players and a lot of grinding.

I really just wish they would resolve some of this by making it possible to stack currencies to make up for deficiencies in one or the other. Like if I want cultural armor, it’d cost about 110 gold – months of casual play, and even weeks of hardcore dungeon speed runs. If they just made it so that you could also spend karma on them, gather tokens of some kind for them, and even perform a quest chain for some of them… it wouldn’t be such a big problem. As it is, things like this just end up being goals that you won’t achieve for months. The game shouldn’t have things like that. There should be enough content that you can achieve goals in a few days, then move on to a new one.

I think Aidan, it wasn’t the branding that set players on edge but the tone of your reply.

Well I appreciate that, but you have essentially called me an exploiter and I have never exploited a thing in my life. The accusation, the insinuation itself is rude. I’d love to have a discussion about dungeon times and content but that’s not the topic of the thread I made. I want to talk about how you are presenting yourself to the community, how you are communicating with us. And your attempts to be at first brash, then strict, then cover your butt… has presented you with a bit of problem with your players that you ought to address.

Now this is very open communication. I have not seen this before on any other gaming forum I visited (have to admit, did not join GW1). But I have to say that I am positively surprised by openly giving feedback on an infraction where you have it reversed. This actually gives me a lot of faith in the team dealing with the forums.

AidanTaylor.3872:

Andry.2563:

We should have a discussion about where you want dungeons to be and there should be a negotiation about what we want dungeons to be, but we can’t have that conversation and we won’t have that conversation if you are going to accuse every player getting any kind of consistent reward from your dungeons an exploiter and then shutting the discussion down.

I would have left the thread open had I seen any merit to the discussion that it started, ultimately I should have made it clearer from the get go.

As you well know by now we do not allow discussion of exploits on these forums for good reason (see this blog post Guild Wars 2 Economy) as discussion of them ends up advertising them to a larger chunk of the playerbase. We don’t want this as we would prefer never to have to ban players (see the end of that blog post) to that extent again.

You will find that there are exploits that we don’t talk about, we won’t advertise through patch notes that they have been fixed in most cases.

By all means discuss the time / reward side of running explorable dungeons and how the changes applied last night may have affected your game experience!

Well Andry, there you go.
Please do not speak for the “whole” community. GW2 is their game. They can do whatever they want to do with it. I certainly do not hope that they go in negotiation with other players whom are speaking “on behalf of the community.”

Just give your own experience about the dungeon run.

When you do not agree with their descision either do something different in-game or do something else out-of-game. You can always come back later on.

Devs aint human ?
Human dont make mistakes ? :P

Andry.2563:

Well I appreciate that, but you have essentially called me an exploiter and I have never exploited a thing in my life. The accusation, the insinuation itself is rude. I’d love to have a discussion about dungeon times and content but that’s not the topic of the thread I made. I want to talk about how you are presenting yourself to the community, how you are communicating with us. And your attempts to be at first brash, then strict, then cover your butt… has presented you with a bit of problem with your players that you ought to address.

While I understand how you feel and where you are coming from, I do not agree on the point of them covering their butt. Openly admitting to reverse an infraction they handed out, is not what I would call covering their butt.

Edit: there is even an apology (sorry, was not there when I started this post).

Im so glad they nerfed speed clears.

Esya.3427:

Andry.2563:

Well I appreciate that, but you have essentially called me an exploiter and I have never exploited a thing in my life. The accusation, the insinuation itself is rude. I’d love to have a discussion about dungeon times and content but that’s not the topic of the thread I made. I want to talk about how you are presenting yourself to the community, how you are communicating with us. And your attempts to be at first brash, then strict, then cover your butt… has presented you with a bit of problem with your players that you ought to address.

While I understand how you feel and where you are coming from, I do not agree on the point of them covering their butt. Openly admitting to reverse an infraction they handed out, is not what I would call covering their butt.

The point was never about the infraction, the topic at debate was how they were treating the community wherein the OP quoted what the Admin said. Then if you go back and check the old thread, they amended their post to sound less brash. That’s what this thread is about.

I’m also really tired of how ANet communicates to the playerbase. I actually feel very discouraged from going on the forums but I feel like I have to come voice my concerns anyway.

They deleted this thread.
Then deleted a thread made by another person.
Then they edited out a snarky word from the thread that was the basis for my thread.
By now myself and another forums user have two infractions.
Then they resurrect the thread.
It gets two posts.
It’s deleted again.
Then minutes later resurrected again.

This is the very definition of CYA. Now they are taking a shot at open communication which is wonderful, fantastic, thank you very much. But if one person goes to the trouble to type a non-inflammatory, thought out post, just deleting it because it talks about a sensitive topic seems like the least of possible options.

Vytal.7942:

Esya.3427:

Andry.2563:

Well I appreciate that, but you have essentially called me an exploiter and I have never exploited a thing in my life. The accusation, the insinuation itself is rude. I’d love to have a discussion about dungeon times and content but that’s not the topic of the thread I made. I want to talk about how you are presenting yourself to the community, how you are communicating with us. And your attempts to be at first brash, then strict, then cover your butt… has presented you with a bit of problem with your players that you ought to address.

While I understand how you feel and where you are coming from, I do not agree on the point of them covering their butt. Openly admitting to reverse an infraction they handed out, is not what I would call covering their butt.

The point was never about the infraction, the topic at debate was how they were treating the community wherein the OP quoted what the Admin said. Then if you go back and check the old thread, they amended their post to sound less brash. That’s what this thread is about.

I understand, but by reversing infractions and putting apologies up they openly admit it might not have been the best way to communicate. That is what I meant by them not covering their butt. I have witnessed forums where that would simply not be discussed openly and a post about a closed thread would simply get closed as well. That is what I would call covering their butt. I understand it is not about the infraction per se, but about the communication leaving some with a feel of being wrongly accused.

Andry.2563:

Well I appreciate that, but you have essentially called me an exploiter….-snip-.

He is not calling you, Andry, an exploiter. He is referrering to the other thread that got locked that they do not and will not discuss about exploits in the patch notes, because that can entice other players to use it as well.

And talking about covering his kitten…please, he is open about this issue and he even gave his excuse.

Well back on topic:
I hope to try out the dungeon soon, but since i’m 40 I’m afraid I have to wait a bit.

AidanTaylor.3872:

Andry.2563:

We should have a discussion about where you want dungeons to be and there should be a negotiation about what we want dungeons to be, but we can’t have that conversation and we won’t have that conversation if you are going to accuse every player getting any kind of consistent reward from your dungeons an exploiter and then shutting the discussion down.

I would have left the thread open had I seen any merit to the discussion that it started, ultimately I should have made it clearer from the get go.

As you well know by now we do not allow discussion of exploits on these forums for good reason (see this blog post Guild Wars 2 Economy) as discussion of them ends up advertising them to a larger chunk of the playerbase. We don’t want this as we would prefer never to have to ban players (see the end of that blog post) to that extent again.

You will find that there are exploits that we don’t talk about, we won’t advertise through patch notes that they have been fixed in most cases.

By all means discuss the time / reward side of running explorable dungeons and how the changes applied last night may have affected your game experience!

Discussions have merit as long as players continue to post in them.

There was a thread a few days ago which I was interested in. I went to bed and checked in the morning, and it was closed already. Just because you guys decided that the discussion was “done”. Any idea how that feels?

From your responses to this thread I don’t think you understand the frustration that many of us have with the way you’re interacting with the playerbase. It’s nice of you to apologize about this one thing and redact the OP’s infraction but it seems like you still think your policies are good.

I don’t know a tactful way to put this so I’ll be blunt; the truth is your policies make players feel angry and alienated.

I don’t want to discuss the game on these forums because of the way they are run. I just come here to post concerns and bugs. I do not come here to discuss the game with other players. I feel completely discouraged from doing that.

Sukeena.3506:

Andry.2563:

Well I appreciate that, but you have essentially called me an exploiter….-snip-.

He is not calling you, Andry, an exploiter. He is referrering to the other thread that got locked that they do not and will not discuss about exploits in the patch notes, because that can entice other players to use it as well.

And talking about covering his kitten…please, he is open about this issue and he even gave his excuse.

Well back on topic:
I hope to try out the dungeon soon, but since i’m 40 I’m afraid I have to wait a bit.

Editing his own post to make his words sound less spiteful isn’t trying to cover things up? Keep in mind that was 40 minutes after his post and 20 minutes after this post had been taken down. Just stating facts here. And btw the whole post wasn’t about, “Hey ANet tell me how to exploit.” It was because none of the changes were listed and as a few other threads have stated there were “stealth” hotfixes.

I don’t really see how saying:

There were certain things that could be done (and were being done) in both CM and CoF that were not intended to be possible (read: exploits), we fixed them. End of story!

in a thread made to argue with them about what they changed and why is calling you, personally, an exploiter.

Wow..I agree with this post on so many levels…why cant we play the game you made without being labelled exploiters when its YOU guys who made the game this way, atleast take the items away from the player not punish them for an error within the game that was made present by lack of testing and revision

With the way things are going, its only going to be so long before you can even comment anythin on the forums without being banned for having an honest opinion

Your goal on the community team: Inform players without informing them too much. Discourage exploits and cheats.
Our goal: Find out about how the game is changing so we can adjust our play appropriately.

Here is what you could have written instead of the nothing that you wrote:
“Modified some encounters in CoF to get them in line with our expectations.”

That’s the vague approach. Vagueness usually sparks some productive discussion. But vagueness can also cause distrust between you and your player base. If possible, patch notes can and should be an opportunity for you to inform and entertain your players. Something like this:
“Modified some encounters in CoF to get them in line with our expectations. Some players were completing the dungeons too quickly. Poor Magg couldn’t keep up with his short legs!”

It’s a terrible joke but then patch note jokes always are. It makes you smirk or say “heh”, and it helps you get over the fact that something enjoyable just got nerfed.

Vytal.7942:

Sukeena.3506:

Andry.2563:

Well I appreciate that, but you have essentially called me an exploiter….-snip-.

He is not calling you, Andry, an exploiter. He is referrering to the other thread that got locked that they do not and will not discuss about exploits in the patch notes, because that can entice other players to use it as well.

And talking about covering his kitten…please, he is open about this issue and he even gave his excuse.

Well back on topic:
I hope to try out the dungeon soon, but since i’m 40 I’m afraid I have to wait a bit.

Editing his own post to make his words sound less spiteful isn’t trying to cover things up? Keep in mind that was 40 minutes after his post and 20 minutes after this post had been taken down. Just stating facts here. And btw the whole post wasn’t about, “Hey ANet tell me how to exploit.” It was because none of the changes were listed and as a few other threads have stated there were “stealth” hotfixes.

That is exactly what this is going on about. In the other thread, wich shall not be named, it was not listed because they do not publish or discuss exploits and how they fixed it. Because if they state how they fixed it (or what caused the bug/exploit), it would be totally counter productive.

Am I the only one who got this out of the different responses from Aiden?

I agree with Khristophoros. The lock happy nature on some things is getting a little crazy. I noticed a question/answer thread that got locked for being answered already that had misinformation in the answers due to a patch change, in fact. No note of the wrong info in the thread locking process, either. That made me feel very … =/ Why are things being locked so frequently? How is it harming the forums to let us chat about things? (And no, I don’t mean the goldseller/bot threads. I get why those get locked. But what’s with all the other locking going on?)

The patch notes we got this time were extremely vague. I wish I knew what was actually fixed since it is pretty much summed up as ‘we fixed some broken stuff. have fun wandering off to broken zones to see if we fixed that or not’.

Well i´m not defending Anet, and not defending the players.
But you should think that at least Anet release update notes saying what they changed in the game.
And that they actually “talk” to the players in the forums, 90% of the other games dont make public the updates, and it´s really rare to see developers talking to players at forums.
I´m glad they are here reading.

I really hope I don’t get an infraction AGAIN for just saying what i know a lot of people are thinking.

Not trying to be rude, but I honestly don’t like this company right now.
Haven’t for a while.
I feel like they don’t care for their players which is actually really really messed up.
I say this because I constantly see posts in the Bugs Forums that are sometimes 5-10 days old with no response and the bug is still in the game.
Don’t they have someone reading the posts?

Then they have game updates without telling the players what’s going to be in the update.
Once we find out for ourselves, we come to the forum to voice our opinion.
Majority of players were upset with the crafting update that made all the cooking mats go into supply bags.
A lot of topics were created asking for change..
No reply.
Sadly, a lot of people just said whatever and moved on but were clearly still upset because I still see chat about it in game.
No point in voicing your opinion when it doesn’t matter right?

This is the first company I’ve seen that doesn’t have patch notes ahead of time.
Doesn’t let us test the new updates before releasing them, and ignores our opinions on them.

This new dungeon update made dungeons pointless and I know I’m not the only one who thinks so.
You put in hours of time and you only get a few silver which goes to repairing your armor.
But of course, I bet this update will stay because our opinions don’t matter.
Even when you have players on your facebook voicing their opinions there too.

I don’t understand it.
Every game I’ve played has always asked their players what they like and don’t like and then changes were made.
This company doesn’t seem to care.

Sukeena, in the thread that shall not be named, the only thing was that we were asking for something, instead of the nothing that was posted there. As Avery stated they could have easily said something along those lines, I don’t thing you are hearing us in the right context. Just to re-iterate we are in no way asking how to exploit or for them to confirm exploits, we just wanted to acknowledge a change to dungeons i.e. adding mobs etc. not just. We changed rewards and gold to prevent speed farming. We were also curious because at the launch of the patch the Wiki page had a few fixes and then were edited out, which acknowledged adding in the new mob packs.

Plague.5329:

I’m still not sure what the “exploits” were. In my runs we did everything legitimately; we just did it as quickly as possible.

As far as I can tell they just lowered the rewards because they got tired of people getting money faster than they wanted them to, which is a major problem in GW2. When pretty things cost 100 gold and when you get to 80, it’s the only thing left to do other than revisiting locations for no real reason, it results in irritated players and a lot of grinding.

I really just wish they would resolve some of this by making it possible to stack currencies to make up for deficiencies in one or the other. Like if I want cultural armor, it’d cost about 110 gold – months of casual play, and even weeks of hardcore dungeon speed runs. If they just made it so that you could also spend karma on them, gather tokens of some kind for them, and even perform a quest chain for some of them… it wouldn’t be such a big problem. As it is, things like this just end up being goals that you won’t achieve for months. The game shouldn’t have things like that. There should be enough content that you can achieve goals in a few days, then move on to a new one.

I’m personally fine with the way progression works. Instead of there being a new goal you have to do every day and then falling behind all the other players, you can steadily work towards the goals in this game since they are all cosmetic in nature. If the exotic gear had better stats within the exotic gear range, then I’d agree with you, we’d need a way to get things faster…but as it currently stands, it’s all about skins. The game gives you enough things to do consistently, you just have to do it a lot.

I’m not trying to say your point isn’t valid though. Obviously what you want out of a game is different than what I want, I just figured I’d put in my two cents to say that I approve of how things currently stand.

Andry.2563:

We should have a discussion about where you want dungeons to be

there is no discussion: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Do-NOT-nerf-please/first#post126835

Fenrir.4915:

Well i´m not defending Anet, and not defending the players.
But you should think that at least Anet release update notes saying what they changed in the game.
And that they actually “talk” to the players in the forums, 90% of the other games dont make public the updates, and it´s really rare to see developters talking to players at forums.
I´m glad they are here reading.

100 % agreed man.

It’s amazing.

Complain about the game right now but not the communication we are getting. So far as someone who has played too many MMOs to name the communication on the forums has been amazing. You’ll see seemingly random posts by a dev and it makes me feel like they are reading it…but now people are going “Oh noes they are not listening to ME!”

The moderator in this thread explained why the thread was locked and I tend to believe that…since there are many threads open right now where players are discussing their displeasure with the changes. I even agree that the Dungeon rewards really need to be looked at…but that’s not the topic of this thread.

We are talking about communication. They have been doing that A LOT lately, people are easily insulted on the internet though because they can interpret the tone any way they want to.

The community team is important to give us of idea of what you are doing this is very helpful and stress relieving for the players.

The patch notes need to be fuller as well this is also a part of communication with the community.

We fixed certain skill challenges and DE. Tell us which ones exactly. I’m a developer for business applications and my costumers expect a patch note with everything I changed. A lot of us expect this as well for a game this big. I understand this cost a lot of time, but this will be appreciated by the most of the community. Also just say when you nerfed something if we know it we understand it.
Of course not everything should be shown in the change log I understand this.

Also do not make a reaction what you did today this is bad publicity and you found out that it backfired.

I don’t know what games you’re all coming from, but when i played other games, I always had a good experience with the devs.
I don’t feel the same here at all.
Some even had live support online or by phone.

RetroSamus.9860:

The community team is important to give us of idea of what you are doing this is very helpful and stress relieving for the players.

The patch notes need to be fuller as well this is also a part of communication with the community.

We fixed certain skill challenges and DE. Tell us which ones exactly. I’m a developer for business applications and my costumers expect a patch note with everything I changed. A lot of us expect this as well for a game this big. I understand this cost a lot of time, but this will be appreciated by the most of the community. Also just say when you nerfed something if we know it we understand it.
Of course not everything should be shown in the change log I understand this.

Also do not make a reaction what you did today this is bad publicity and you found out that it backfired.

Exactly!!!!

In my experience with other MMOs and their notorious forums, its’ oftentimes the playerbase (but moreso, a handful of regular forum-goers) that ends up becoming belligerent or outright rude to any changes or have this incredible sense of “I speak for everyone, and if the devs don’t listen to me, the game is doomed!” that can cause developers themselves to not want to say anything as it will either become misconstrued or twisted around. I have not seen this not happen, no matter the game.

In a case such as this, I didn’t see the original thread regarding the fixes to the dungeons, but it almost seemed like it was another case of players not being happy that the tricks (read: exploits) were removed, and with only one person’s word against another, saying that it was always legit so why change it… if the runs that were done legit, then where is the issue? If it is a case of the rewards being too low, mention that. If the difficulty was swung too far one way or the other, say so. But don’t focus in on the fixes that were made that were used to bypass content and call it the worst change in the world.

The community is new yet, but with every new game that I have followed for the last 5 years or so, the cesspool of negativity and arguementativeness on the forums has become worse as it goes.. and I haven’t the slightest idea who to blame, or in this case, feel sorry for.

TL;DR: Give the devs some time to find their legs, and stop trying to focus on the exploit corrections as the only thing wrong with the change. Exploits have never been openly discussed, and trying to make any new game buck the trend will lead to disappointment. Going back to lurking, as I know this will simply get tossed aside, as I disagreed with someone.

AidanTaylor.3872:

Andry.2563:

This is the stuff that turns into bad press real fast. And if you haven’t learned it already, MMO players are the most fickle and finicky game players. You have a small window to impress with your service. It doesn’t matter one bit how beautiful your world is, how compelling your combat is, or how immersive and fun your game experience is. If your communication with players is lacking, if your communication with players is hostile, if your players do not trust or even worse if they are afraid to play your game for fear of being labelled exploiter or cheater… nobody is going to play it.

I’m sorry if my original response seemed to brand those that may have benefited from these as cheaters or exploiters, it was not intended to be read that way.

You sir just committed the cardinal sin of customer service, blaming the consumer. You may have not intended it that way, but you indeed wrote it that way.

You have moderators deleting posts (which should never be allowed, locked yes, delete never). You by your own hand, whether intentional or not, have called many of the player base cheaters and or exploiters. You single handedly angered many where perception is EVERYTHING.

By nerfing this and buffing the difficulty of many of the dungeons, you have made this game dang near a solo game. Heart farming is a solo job. Dungeons were a great place to do stuff as a team. Now many of them are just a pain in the rear to do with very little reward at all. This single decision could very well hurt your game immensely. There is a reason people don’t do AC but once. Now its the same reason for many of the dungeons. Very little reward, but the pain, time, and frustration it takes to complete it. The big complaint about SWtor was it being a solo game. You’ve been out less then a month and you pretty much just made SWtor (but without the lightsabers…and a better story).

metaverse.6821:

100 % agreed man.

It’s amazing.

Complain about the game right now but not the communication we are getting. So far as someone who has played too many MMOs to name the communication on the forums has been amazing. You’ll see seemingly random posts by a dev and it makes me feel like they are reading it…but now people are going “Oh noes they are not listening to ME!”

The moderator in this thread explained why the thread was locked and I tend to believe that…since there are many threads open right now where players are discussing their displeasure with the changes. I even agree that the Dungeon rewards really need to be looked at…but that’s not the topic of this thread.

We are talking about communication. They have been doing that A LOT lately, people are easily insulted on the internet though because they can interpret the tone any way they want to.

This. For months Bioware barely replied to anything on the swtor forum, other than mods posting that the thread would be locked to due community policy violations.

I see Anet devs around and answering random topics more often than blue posts on the WoW forums too.

Thrashard.9152:

In my experience with other MMOs and their notorious forums, its’ oftentimes the playerbase (but moreso, a handful of regular forum-goers) that ends up becoming belligerent or outright rude to any changes or have this incredible sense of “I speak for everyone, and if the devs don’t listen to me, the game is doomed!” that can cause developers themselves to not want to say anything as it will either become misconstrued or twisted around. I have not seen this not happen, no matter the game.

In a case such as this, I didn’t see the original thread regarding the fixes to the dungeons, but it almost seemed like it was another case of players not being happy that the tricks (read: exploits) were removed, and with only one person’s word against another, saying that it was always legit so why change it… if the runs that were done legit, then where is the issue? If it is a case of the rewards being too low, mention that. If the difficulty was swung too far one way or the other, say so. But don’t focus in on the fixes that were made that were used to bypass content and call it the worst change in the world.

The community is new yet, but with every new game that I have followed for the last 5 years or so, the cesspool of negativity and arguementativeness on the forums has become worse as it goes.. and I haven’t the slightest idea who to blame, or in this case, feel sorry for.

TL;DR: Give the devs some time to find their legs, and stop trying to focus on the exploit corrections as the only thing wrong with the change. Exploits have never been openly discussed, and trying to make any new game buck the trend will lead to disappointment. Going back to lurking, as I know this will simply get tossed aside, as I disagreed with someone.

This wasn’t the case at all. In the PTSNBN all we were speculating about was why the changes to the trash packs and such not posted? No one was ever complaining that they fixed the exploits. The reply just came out of the blue(and was quite rude) and as a shocker to us forum posters and then the thread was locked and shut down. No one ever stated they were the worst changes in the world, in fact in his post Andry says that whatever changes they want to make to it: Fine, he was just asking that they actually communicate those changes pertinent to the dungeon. Again not asking to diverge any secret exploits of Narnia here.

Yes exactly. Explicit patch notes and honest communication is all I was and am asking for. I think you’ll find that your player base is willing to swallow quite a bit of Vision™ if they don’t have to find out about inside the game.

That’s all we could ever ask for.

Vytal.7942:

This wasn’t the case at all. In the PTSNBN all we were speculating about was why the changes to the trash packs and such not posted? No one was ever complaining that they fixed the exploits. The reply just came out of the blue(and was quite rude) and as a shocker to us forum posters and then the thread was locked and shut down. No one ever stated they were the worst changes in the world, in fact in his post Andry says that whatever changes they want to make to it: Fine, he was just asking that they actually communicate those changes pertinent to the dungeon. Again not asking to diverge any secret exploits of Narnia here.

I must apologize if I was coming off the left a little much (I’ll admit that I was off of center as it were) with that mild rant.. I am in agreement however on the basis of giving more detail regarding non-exploitive modifications to a zone/skill/whatever.. that is something I can get behind.

In any case, /lurk on.

Anet: make all the changes you need to keep the game fun and profitable. While doing so, you also need to communicate in a way that is DIRECT. We are your customers, not just turds playing a game.

Your latest wave of changes upset some folks—it is in your best interest to listen to this feedback and truly consider the impact the changes have caused. If was unintended (running them as fast as some have) that is fine. If you consider running dungeons efficiently an “exploit”, you need your head checked.

Maybe if you made all the events (champions) reward the player instead of what you had before (dungeons the only real way to receive decent rewards, till now) then maybe you never would of had to implement this ridiculous dungeon nerf in the first place.

If i felt rewarded for the amount of effort i put into the existing content, i would not have ever felt the need to do speed runs in CM or CoF.

This is the best course that can be taken, we have always valued our players feedback regarding all aspects of the game. There are plenty of developers, designers, artists etc reading and posting on these forums – though most will generally stick to their area of expertise, they are sat there waiting for you (all our players) to talk to them, tell them what they think is right and how they would/should change those things that niggle to be better!

That is wonderful to hear of course. But doesn’t the community team handle patch notes?