Guild Wars 2

At this point I’m more concerned about how fractal levels punish people who cooperate and help others in lower levels with less reward.

It’s fragmenting the community.

I also think that it will lead to the game’s eventual demise. They have alienated most of their loyal fans with this move, especially those that used to like GW1.

And I don’t think that the fractal grind will really attract masses of players who like grinding for gear. I could be wrong, of course, but I think those will stay at that other MMO who had vertical progression from the start and is famous for it.
I think it’s the beginning of the end for this game.

Galen Grey.4709:

Not saying thats where the game was headed, I think there were enough players enjoying the game as it was but I cant blame Arenanet for trying to provide content to the players who were not finding it!

That’s true, but you can blame them for destroying the game for those who were fine with it. Progression could have been implemented as a completely separated part of the game, just like sPvP. It could have been excluded from PvE, Dungeons and WvW, but they chose to make it essential instead.

Galen Grey.4709:

Nope doesnt sound like a treadmill just like when we started the game saw 5 tiers of gear we didnt say ohh now I have common and will have to get fine quality which I will then have to replace with masterworks and then get rares on my way to exotic!

This is hilarious. You turned 80 and used lvl 80 COMMONS and then worked your way to FINE?

Galen Grey.4709:

What? if they had released all the set at once it would have been like adding 3 – 4 tiers? How did you come to that conclusion? A single tier is a whole armor set from start to finish that share the same stats how can it be like 3 – 4 tiers all at once? Seriously I’d take one hard look at how you’re perceiving this whole thing. Its a fact, not even debatable that what they did is release a single tier of armor.

You seem to have trouble with taking a simile too literally so I’ll just say this: In many games I could grind through 3-4 tiers with about the effort I expect it to will take to get full infused Ascended + max infusions.

Galen Grey.4709:

How is it critical? This weekend I did a little experiment I tried playing in the only place where ascended armor has any impact at all without any armor! so not 1 tier difference that ascended armor will provide but rather a whole 5 tier difference. Tried logging in early in the morning to get into small engagement as to not skew this as much as possible. Unfortunately people start playing quite early but I got a few small skirmishes. Ended up with 7 kills and just 2 deaths (weaning nothing no armor, no accessories) I also got 2 solo engagements in which when seeing me wearing no armor the opponents fled! I am not kidding! you’d expect that provided this believe that armor is everything I would have been a prime target yet not one but 2 players when coming one on one they just simply ran away! But dont take my word for it, try it yourself!

“Small skirmishes?” So you did 1k to someone and the people in front of you did 20k and you got the kill? Whipee. There are also level 20’s in WvW that are wearing fine and I’m sure you can beat them as a naked level 80. Try this… take a team of 5 naked against 5 people in exotic. If your side wins then you proved the other team didn’t have a heartbeat.

Galen Grey.4709:

Fortuna.7259:

Incorrect. Words from someone who hasn’t kept their word are just empty words. Only ACTION can defuse this issue.

Bet nothing can defuse this issue! thats the thing about witch hunts, getting the witch doesnt defuse the hysteria it just makes the witch hunters look for the next witch. People should never have taken this issue so far and set off this avalange. Instead of just telling arenanet they disagreed with what they did clearing waiting and seeing how they’d respond people went all out, that was wrong imho

What are you ranting about? Seriously.

phooka.4295:

Galen Grey.4709:

There is still no vertical progression, a single new tier doesnt make it so unless there is some written law somewhere that say 5 tiers is okey to consider a game horizontal but 6 tiers makes it vertical! the only vertical progression they really introduced isnt the ascended gear itself its agony / infusion system in FoTM and that doesnt even kick in after level 10.

Galen, I must admit that you’re the most eloquent, silver-tongued apologist I’ve seen here so far. However, that does not make your arguments any more valid where you’re simply ignoring the truth that’s out there for all to see (who don’t close their eyes).

The new tier was announced as the “start of the progression initiative”. Not as the “final cornerstone of level-80-equipment.”

It was announced that we’d eventually have a full set of ascended items available. So to say that it’s only rings and back is disingenious.

Also, it has been said that better quality than rare infusions will come. Even if you’re only forced to keep the wheel spinning for infusions, that doesn’t really make it less of a treadmill.

You need to periodically update your equipment or you will, over time, become less powerful than players who do. This is my personal, generic definition of a treadmill. Please tell me which part of it is wrong or does not apply to GW2. Remember that ascended gear was introduced as “beginning of progression initiative” and that higher-quality infusions were already promised if you try to argue the definition does not apply to GW2.

You can ignore the writing on the wall. Unless you update your equipment regularly, you will, over time, fall behind your fellow players as far as survivability, DPS and utility (e.g. heals for others) are concerned. Tell me how this is less like WoW and more like GW1, please.

You misunderstood a few things I said I think. I never meant to imply it will be limited to rings or back item. Obviously there will be a full set introduced no doubt. Well if we’re like they’ll rethink the whole thing but as is right now its a near certaintiy this is going to happen! Was definitely not trying to deny that I only meant to say that even with just a backpack and ring people are behaving as if the game has changed drastically from a super fun game to a disaster!

Also I totally agree new infusions will come I said so in all my posts dont think I contradicted that anywhere! only said in one post in reply to someone that claimed ascended gear + infusion is a whole new tier of gear that a level one infusion gives a single +5 to one attribute if every level of infusion goes up with +5 stats it will take 55 level of infusions before an assended gear with an infusion will be strong enough as a whole new tier. Dont think there is any thing false of misleading there? you disagree with this statement?

The part that in sPvP everyone has the same gear, in PvE everyone is co-operating and in WvW its such an intentionally unbalanced system that it doesnt matter not to mention that I still maintain skill is a lot more important! I mean seriously I am not trying to decieve anyone here! an ascended ring has what 11 more power then a exotic one? multiply that by the 12 armor / accessory slots and you get 132 extra power!
every level 80 has 916 base power + 1104 off exotic armor for a total of 2020. Will those 132 extra power provided by ascended gear really turn the tide of an WvW battle? (and yes I know power is not the only thing that improves you can get more health and more toughness etc…) but come on in most engagements you either out numbered or they you out number them, they might have a better position or you might have a better hold. They might have siege weapons, they might have npc allies . One single well timed interrupt will throw off any advantage you get no doubt!

That being said its definitely not closer to gw1 never said it was, never said I liked it and you’re wrong if you think I am defining it. Once again I think it was a bad idea and I dont like it! all I have ever said was that people are making out to be a much bigger deal then it is in my opinion, nothing more nothing less!

plasmacutter.2709:

At this point I’m more concerned about how fractal levels punish people who cooperate and help others in lower levels with less reward.

It’s fragmenting the community.

A major impact of Ascended gear. Stuff like this is why you can’t just ignore that it is there… Other people will not ignore it, and then what are you left with? A game where a level 38 FotM won’t play with a level 34 FotM?

Mayam.8976:

Walle.6087:

It does not matter if they added 1 tier or 100 tiers of new armor. The fact is they added it. It goes against everything they advertised.

I played gw1 until the launch of this game and loved the fact that armor meant nothing it was for looks, and the skill of the player did not rely on the stats of his/her armor.

This was a complete slap in the face to the fans. We were lied too and quite frankly that disgusts me and there not getting any more money from me, and I know I am not the only one.

Oh KITTEN! Is this by any chance the Walle of WoW: Ner’Zhul fame?

Never played WoW.

I played GW1 from launch until the release of GW2.

Re the discussion as to whether Ascended gear represents vertical progression:

Has anyone seen a non-level 80 Ascended piece? All the examples and links I’ve seen have been L80 required.

Prior to the Lost Shores update, Exotic level 80 gear had the best stats in the game. Legendary weapons had the same stats as L80 exotic weapons (hence the reassurance they would be upgraded when or before Ascended weapons appear). So, there was nothing better. Now there is. That’s one step up, with Legendary being the second step. So, Ascended represents a vertical increase.

Progression involves a series of steps, not just one. Going up the only step does not indicate progress, it indicate success. So, the current iteration does not represent a progression. Claims that it is the harbinger of progression are conjecture, not fact.

A separate issue is that the two steps we currently have are considerably more expensive in time and gold than Exotic was/is. Legendary was always expensive, but since the stats were no better, gaining one was like grinding for 5o titles in GW1. It gave bragging rights, not improved performance.

L80 exotics are also becoming more expensive as a result of this change. Ascended requires the same highest tier mats as Exotics. Increased demand for these mats has driven their cost up. For example, globs were over 30s each yesterday, where they were under 14s each not that long ago.

Buzzcrave.6197:

Veltoss.9135:

My god people.. they added one tier of gear as a one-time gameplay improvement, why the kitten is everyone acting like this is the apocolypse?

It may be one gear now, but when all the QQers get those Ascended, they will complain more. What will Anet do then? Add another tier of item. This is how gear-treadmill happens. kitten like this happened alot of time on others mmo, and Im afraid it will happen on GW2 as well.

Don’t make assumptions as if you are a fortune teller of GW2. You don’t know what and if it will happen in GW2. It really amuses me how you people seem to think you know where this game is gonna end up at. Whatever!

Fortuna.7259:

plasmacutter.2709:

At this point I’m more concerned about how fractal levels punish people who cooperate and help others in lower levels with less reward.

It’s fragmenting the community.

A major impact of Ascended gear. Stuff like this is why you can’t just ignore that it is there… Other people will not ignore it, and then what are you left with? A game where a level 38 FotM won’t play with a level 34 FotM?

I think the greatest impact this has had can be seen in two venues:

1. In Lion’s Arch, you often revile the incessant narcissism made by elitists who deny a fresh level 80 their share of the pie when they want to “form a group for level 1 FotM dungeons.”
2. Straits of Devastation, etc., are now devoid of players, leaving most players on many servers facing a plethora of contested waypoints and a harsh inability to grind exotic sets (Armageddon and such).

I’m not one who believes in the “if you can’t beat em, join em,” nonsense. Even if I was, I’d be faced with situation #1. On two occasions when trying to form a low-difficulty Fractal group, I was pretty much told by most to “get bent” and “ask my own guild” for assistance. This was on Tarnished Coast. I don’t know how it is elsewhere. What happened to the “prove your skill, not your gear” mentality that used to be the pedigree of the Guild Wars community?

So between #1 and #2, combined with the incessant trolling that seems to be increasing on these forums in support of the newfound “grind,” I haven’t seen a community more divided than when the NGE struck Star Wars Galaxies in 2005.

So, as my wife wittily remarked over my shoulder: “Please enjoy this lovely elevator music,” while Anet un-kittens (because I can’t swear) this SNAFU.

what they need to do is make more unique DE’s. i think i never read on forum that fractal dungeon is bad. only the lvl system. btw because of it i lost my pve team couse i can play only 2-3 hours/day and by the 5th day of fractals i was lvl5 and all others 13 already. ty anet for that.

so basically, bosses in fractals are really good and i enjoyed them, but they should have been put in the open world as DE’s. if they did that and continued that, in 2 years we would have really an amazing mmo experience in the open world. now we have mostly the same DE’s with different mobs. anet start using your strenghts.

Galen Grey.4709:

LOCO.1785:

Yeah that’s true.

What I’d really like to see are the actual revenue figures, but that’s never gonna happen. So all i have to go on is anecdotal evidence.

In any case, I’d say the latest patch certainly didn’t have the impact they were hoping for.

Actually you can see that, check ncsoft quarterly financial filling.
http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx

This includes data up to September I believe.

Anyhow did listen to it my and essentially ncsoft told its investors in that call that GW2 exceed its expectations. They sold 2m copies in the first 2 weeks and where expecting to reach 3m before the end of the year. And they did $14m up to September from the cash shop.

The game is doing great! they didnt do this because the game didnt perform, they did this to try to offer some content to everyone like they themselves said after all!

Yeh, I wouldn’t use the financial report. You are right. It was up to and including september. So basically the game was out one month and sales were above expectation. What happened since that first month is more telling.

The next financial report in a few months will shed more light on that. But to be honest, I don’t really care how many people do or don’t play anymore. I just know I don’t and why and that’s what matters to me.