Guild Wars 2

Mayam.8976:

Oh and Grandpa always thinks it’ll rain when his lumbago acts up. I still watch the Weather Channel though and I don’t put on a rain coat until, ya know – I SEE rain.

Not to be overly flippant . . . but if he thinks it’s going to rain and I’m going out that day I’ll still take an umbrella or raincoat with me just in case. (What the heck is lumbago?)

Mayam.8976:

The wise money is betting that Ascended may end up about as hard to get a hold of as Exotics today. Legendaries are a real kitten to get right? Psst – they’re getting stepped up to the stats of Ascended in time, from the point they are now… the stats of the Exotics which ANYONE CAN GET! I leave everyone with that last fact to draw correlations from

The problem is simply that people don’t know for sure how easy or not they will be, all they have is how hard they are now. Again, we really do need to know more about how else we’re supposed to get them.

Dozer.1596:

How come that these two people discuss how GW2 will compete on the MMORPG market under the expression that it will be horizontal, with no grind for gear higher stats at max lvl? The video is one year old, ANet advertised it like that not only in the manifesto but for all the years it was in development!

And the change with the patch throws all this over board.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOg0O9CBsns

You mean here? – http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UOg0O9CBsns#t=62s

“People are so used to do dungeons and raids and all that stuff, just to get better gear. They won’t be able to do that in Guild Wars 2.”

I really, really wish they’d finish the darn Ascended roll out already, and think hard about doing it the next time. Because I get the impression there were some sort of plans in mind to handle other means than just Fractals.

I’m also not sure who’s talking here, these people don’t work for ArenaNet do they?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Dozer.1596:

How come that these two people discuss how GW2 will compete on the MMORPG market under the expression that it will be horizontal, with no grind for gear higher stats at max lvl? The video is one year old, ANet advertised it like that not only in the manifesto but for all the years it was in development!

And the change with the patch throws all this over board.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOg0O9CBsns

You mean here? – http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UOg0O9CBsns#t=62s

“People are so used to do dungeons and raids and all that stuff, just to get better gear. They won’t be able to do that in Guild Wars 2.”

I really, really wish they’d finish the darn Ascended roll out already, and think hard about doing it the next time. Because I get the impression there were some sort of plans in mind to handle other means than just Fractals.

I’m also not sure who’s talking here, these people don’t work for ArenaNet do they?

No they do not work for ANet, but discuss this game on the knowledge that was available at that time and that clearly states that GW2 stands on it’s own, with a unique approach adopted from GW1.

The time you spend here complaining about some new gear, is time you could be enjoying the game. The mere fact that people are complaining about it here tells me they’re bored of doing…whatever it iwas they were doing in the game. And thats the real issue…not gear teirs.

Truth, new gear does not cut you off from enjoying any aspect of the game.

So…go enjoy the game.

Dozer.1596:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Dozer.1596:

How come that these two people discuss how GW2 will compete on the MMORPG market under the expression that it will be horizontal, with no grind for gear higher stats at max lvl? The video is one year old, ANet advertised it like that not only in the manifesto but for all the years it was in development!

And the change with the patch throws all this over board.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOg0O9CBsns

You mean here? – http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UOg0O9CBsns#t=62s

“People are so used to do dungeons and raids and all that stuff, just to get better gear. They won’t be able to do that in Guild Wars 2.”

I really, really wish they’d finish the darn Ascended roll out already, and think hard about doing it the next time. Because I get the impression there were some sort of plans in mind to handle other means than just Fractals.

I’m also not sure who’s talking here, these people don’t work for ArenaNet do they?

No they do not work for ANet, but discuss this game on the knowledge that was available at that time and that clearly states that GW2 stands on it’s own, with a unique approach adopted from GW1.

And when you say, they should implement raids and tiers, last of which they start to implement, that means they try to get players from more traditonal mmo’s and deviate from their original approach. That is was much of the outrage is about, besides from changes to drop rates and introduction of expensive recipes.

So, they don’t work for ArenaNet. Okay, I was wondering since I didn’t see a name and title show up. And so, well, most of what they said is the same as if I got a microphone and sat with my couple friends and speculated on Minecraft based on what we’d see in Dinnerbone’s tweets.

What you have here are a couple of bloggers just speculating on what has been shown so far and said. And drawing a lot of inferences I noted, along with some concrete sort of statements which were dubious even during Beta Weekend 2. This was a year out, there wasn’t any kind of open beta yet . . . meaning they were very likely not done building the whole thing yet.

Nice find and it was entertaining, but I think I got more entertainment from The Spoony One’s take. I’d link but since he swears like a sailor with a hangover I’m not linking it here. His PAX video on 9/13/2010 for instance.

Silentstorm.7531:

For one whining itself is care bear regardless of the subject people should man up.

This is so classic, I just had to address it.

This attitude is one of the main things wrong in the world today. You’re conditioned from birth to just go with the flow, don’t rock the boat, don’t question anything, don’t take a stand, just be a good little citizen, obey and don’t you dare complain. About anything. Just keep bending over and taking it. Then you grow old all hunched over, from spending your whole life in the bent over position.

In my point of view, “manning up” is the exact opposite of shutting up and taking it.
But what do I know, I’m not a man.

People who pay for a product, and are disappointed in said product, have every right to voice their displeasure.

whipplerama.3692:

Silentstorm.7531:

For one whining itself is care bear regardless of the subject people should man up.

This is so classic, I just had to address it.

This attitude is one of the main things wrong in the world today. You’re conditioned from birth to just go with the flow, don’t rock the boat, don’t question anything, don’t take a stand, just be a good little citizen, obey and don’t you dare complain. About anything. Just keep bending over and taking it. Then you grow old all hunched over, from spending your whole life in the bent over position.

In my point of view, “manning up” is the exact opposite of shutting up and taking it.
But what do I know, I’m not a man.

People who pay for a product, and are disappointed in said product, have every right to voice their displeasure.

That’s fine with me, you are perfectly entitled to do so. Heck, any of you are. Just three things.

- If someone asks you why and you can’t come up with a reason, they have the right to shrug and say “well, okay, then bye” without you getting annoyed or starting the name-calling up.
- If someone wants to discuss something with you and they don’t have the facts straight, or if someone on your own side is mistaken, correct them without calling them an idiot. Conversely, if they’re trying to offer something they think is worth looking at as far as things go . . . don’t just go dismissing it out of hand as propaganda and lies.
- If you want to voice your opinion with the intent of getting it changed, you have to be clear, concise, and polite about what you think is wrong. Using words which get changed to a cat-like one isn’t a help.

This thread is filled with whine.

Apparently no one has figured out that MMOs that have a static environment die. Adding new things to do (like finding new cool sets) keeps an MMO alive. T

This isn’t a sandbox MMO, where you can go outside and do wtf you want. Its a themepark game with a progression system. If you want sandbox play go play Eve online, tibia, or darkfall.

I love that they are adding new content I DONT HAVE TO PAY FOR, and the fact that the fractals are abosutely stunning in design.

If you don’t like the way the culture is on your server, then make a guild focusing on older dungeons. YOU SHOULD NOT BE WHINING ABOUT DECISIONS OF OTHER PLAYERS, the developers cant control that kitten. They can steer it mildly, but this whining about not finding groups is purely cultural. You can and always will be able to run other dungeons and attain the gear.

As for ascended items, they have already stated theyw ill be having multiple paths to attain it, and that ascended armor is essentially legendary armor.

You don’t kitten when people attain a legendary weapon do you?

For people

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

That’s fine with me, you are perfectly entitled to do so. Heck, any of you are. Just three things.

- If someone asks you why and you can’t come up with a reason, they have the right to shrug and say “well, okay, then bye” without you getting annoyed or starting the name-calling up.
- If someone wants to discuss something with you and they don’t have the facts straight, or if someone on your own side is mistaken, correct them without calling them an idiot. Conversely, if they’re trying to offer something they think is worth looking at as far as things go . . . don’t just go dismissing it out of hand as propaganda and lies.
- If you want to voice your opinion with the intent of getting it changed, you have to be clear, concise, and polite about what you think is wrong. Using words which get changed to a cat-like one isn’t a help.

Actually, I agree with you. And I’ll assume your post wasn’t directed towards me, but towards posters in general, as I have been guilty of none of the points you addressed.

whipplerama.3692:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

That’s fine with me, you are perfectly entitled to do so. Heck, any of you are. Just three things.

- If someone asks you why and you can’t come up with a reason, they have the right to shrug and say “well, okay, then bye” without you getting annoyed or starting the name-calling up.
- If someone wants to discuss something with you and they don’t have the facts straight, or if someone on your own side is mistaken, correct them without calling them an idiot. Conversely, if they’re trying to offer something they think is worth looking at as far as things go . . . don’t just go dismissing it out of hand as propaganda and lies.
- If you want to voice your opinion with the intent of getting it changed, you have to be clear, concise, and polite about what you think is wrong. Using words which get changed to a cat-like one isn’t a help.

Actually, I agree with you. And I’ll assume your post wasn’t directed towards me, but towards posters in general, as I have been guilty of none of the points you addressed.

Sorry, no it wasn’t at you other than in general around this whole discussion through however many threads there are

Columba.9730:

Pustulio.8207:

Seriously, everyone needs to go do something else. This is getting really old, really fast. You keep complaining about “Gear-Treadmill”, but, what if Anet makes alternate methods to acquire “ascended” gear?. What if they make it so you can get an “ascended” weapon by putting 4 exotic weapons of the same type into the forge. Considering all the stats are built in, the chances of getting what you want are pretty low. So what do you do with it?. You put it on the TP. Since it’s “game-wide”, there will be a flood of “ascended” gear up for grabs, and the more there are, the cheaper they will BE. How hard did you have to “Grind” to buy the gear off the TP. If you’re like me, and have a lot of gold just sitting in the bank, then, not very hard. And, what if they add MORE ways. What if the add a way to get them through “crafting”?, or drops from “World Boss” chests??. The point is, we (which includes YOU) have NO IDEA what their plans are. So, if you gotta cry, then cry up a storm. Just don’t expect anyone to really care.

why haven’t they made alternative paths available by now>

Exactly. If the ascended gear was easily accessible from other sources there would be no outcry at all. It is not.
And Ascended eq currently is account bound on acquire, so no possibility to TP it at all.

Galen Grey.4709:

And thats exactly the problem! people measuring Gw2 like any other MMO even though its not!

It is now.

Fuz.5621:

Galen Grey.4709:

And thats exactly the problem! people measuring Gw2 like any other MMO even though its not!

It is now.

Page 2, 31st post from the top of this thread.

Already explained to you in detail how no its still not the same MMO.

For those who are wondering if Arenanet representatives said there would be horizontal and not gear progression, below are a few links to their videos, articles and blog. It even shows their endgame vision (“End game is experienced throughout Tyria and begins at lvl 1. You do not have to wait till you reach max level to experience endgame.”)

Colin Johanson 6/2012
“The answer can be found in the mechanics and choices made in subscription-based MMOs, which keep customers actively playing by chasing something in the game through processes that take as long as possible.

But what if your business model isn’t based on a subscription? When looking at content design for Guild Wars 2, we’ve tried to ask the question: What if the development of the game was based on…wait for it…fun?

The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. {But Ascended were introduced as the rarest post-launch and have better stats? What happened to Exotics being the rarest, max stat gear?}

Every time you finish a dungeon you get tokens you can trade in for reward items that you want, rather than having a small chance of getting it as a drop {Vial of Condensed Mists Essence needed for back piece is a completely random drop based on RNG.}

If our model was subscription based, we might be spending all this time racing to add as much filler content as possible to keep players chasing the carrot." {Then why add Ascended with better stats than Exotics. Why not just introduce with the same stats but better/different looks? Why not have all Ascended pieces available now?}

2010
http://www.arena.net/blog/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto 4/2010
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/guild-wars-2/1220537p1.html 3/2012
http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success 6/2012
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/6574/The-Legendary-Endgame.html 7/2012
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined/ 9/2012
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/09/14/guild-wars-2-developers-discuss-endgame/ 9/2012
http://kotaku.com/5943327/guild-wars-2-developers-want-their-endgame-to-be-part-of-the-whole-game

Mike O’Brien

“So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs.”

What is so unique about adding Ascended? It is a new gear tier. It has a resistance mechanic like LOTRO radiance. It has RNG on certain key drops, so you have to run it over and over in the hopes you will eventually get the loot. Seems like the typical gear-based endgame dungeon to me.

Absconditus.6804:

I at least, think it was a good idea to add the Ascended tier of equipment. It introduces an interesting mechanic with resistances that can be used in multiple parts of the game.

Really?

I thought it was removing skill from the combat in the game.

This game was designed and launched around the idea that if you don’t actively dodge damage and remove conditions (e.g. you didn’t pay attention) you would be unable to progress very far, and if you were particularly reactive and did well at avoiding damage, you would be rewarded for your skill.

Not anymore. Agony is “unavoidable”, you can’t overcome it with skill no matter what, and you’re stuck stacking a boring resistance stat which allows you to “cheese” an encounter with “gear”.

That is the OPPOSITE of skill-based combat. I don’t want to see it anymore in this game, and I want the option to completely ignore FotM.

plasmacutter.2709:

Absconditus.6804:

I at least, think it was a good idea to add the Ascended tier of equipment. It introduces an interesting mechanic with resistances that can be used in multiple parts of the game.

Really?

I thought it was removing skill from the combat in the game.

This game was designed and launched around the idea that if you don’t actively dodge damage and remove conditions (e.g. you didn’t pay attention) you would be unable to progress very far, and if you were particularly reactive and did well at avoiding damage, you would be rewarded for your skill.

Not anymore. Agony is “unavoidable”, you can’t overcome it with skill no matter what, and you’re stuck stacking a boring resistance stat which allows you to “cheese” an encounter with “gear”.

That is the OPPOSITE of skill-based combat. I don’t want to see it anymore in this game, and I want the option to completely ignore FotM.

Are you sure about “unavoidable”? I had someone telling me that Agony is attached to certain boss attacks and thus can be dodged for the most part.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

plasmacutter.2709:

Absconditus.6804:

I at least, think it was a good idea to add the Ascended tier of equipment. It introduces an interesting mechanic with resistances that can be used in multiple parts of the game.

Really?

I thought it was removing skill from the combat in the game.

This game was designed and launched around the idea that if you don’t actively dodge damage and remove conditions (e.g. you didn’t pay attention) you would be unable to progress very far, and if you were particularly reactive and did well at avoiding damage, you would be rewarded for your skill.

Not anymore. Agony is “unavoidable”, you can’t overcome it with skill no matter what, and you’re stuck stacking a boring resistance stat which allows you to “cheese” an encounter with “gear”.

That is the OPPOSITE of skill-based combat. I don’t want to see it anymore in this game, and I want the option to completely ignore FotM.

Are you sure about “unavoidable”? I had someone telling me that Agony is attached to certain boss attacks and thus can be dodged for the most part.

It was in the patch notes. Unavoidable and irremovable by any traditional means.

Either way, agony resist’s fundamental function is to allow you to ignore a mechanic in the game rather than deal with it actively. It removes skill from combat and replaces it with the same gear-cheesing i’ve been running from for 10 years.

plasmacutter.2709:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

plasmacutter.2709:

Absconditus.6804:

I at least, think it was a good idea to add the Ascended tier of equipment. It introduces an interesting mechanic with resistances that can be used in multiple parts of the game.

Really?

I thought it was removing skill from the combat in the game.

This game was designed and launched around the idea that if you don’t actively dodge damage and remove conditions (e.g. you didn’t pay attention) you would be unable to progress very far, and if you were particularly reactive and did well at avoiding damage, you would be rewarded for your skill.

Not anymore. Agony is “unavoidable”, you can’t overcome it with skill no matter what, and you’re stuck stacking a boring resistance stat which allows you to “cheese” an encounter with “gear”.

That is the OPPOSITE of skill-based combat. I don’t want to see it anymore in this game, and I want the option to completely ignore FotM.

Are you sure about “unavoidable”? I had someone telling me that Agony is attached to certain boss attacks and thus can be dodged for the most part.

It was in the patch notes. Unavoidable and irremovable by any traditional means.

I know about the patch notes, I know about the interviews and blog posts. I also know I asked two people what was up with Agony and they let me know some things. Also:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13ecxn/information_about_agony_and_agony_resistance/

There’s that?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

plasmacutter.2709:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

plasmacutter.2709:

Absconditus.6804:

I at least, think it was a good idea to add the Ascended tier of equipment. It introduces an interesting mechanic with resistances that can be used in multiple parts of the game.

Really?

I thought it was removing skill from the combat in the game.

This game was designed and launched around the idea that if you don’t actively dodge damage and remove conditions (e.g. you didn’t pay attention) you would be unable to progress very far, and if you were particularly reactive and did well at avoiding damage, you would be rewarded for your skill.

Not anymore. Agony is “unavoidable”, you can’t overcome it with skill no matter what, and you’re stuck stacking a boring resistance stat which allows you to “cheese” an encounter with “gear”.

That is the OPPOSITE of skill-based combat. I don’t want to see it anymore in this game, and I want the option to completely ignore FotM.

Are you sure about “unavoidable”? I had someone telling me that Agony is attached to certain boss attacks and thus can be dodged for the most part.

It was in the patch notes. Unavoidable and irremovable by any traditional means.

I know about the patch notes, I know about the interviews and blog posts. I also know I asked two people what was up with Agony and they let me know some things. Also:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13ecxn/information_about_agony_and_agony_resistance/

There’s that?

Agony and its associated resistance serves one function: Allowing you to “cheese” events with “gear”.

No more need to “dodge attacks”, just stand there and “agony resist tank it”, maybe we can even get an elementalist to “heal” the remaining damage. Sounds great, doesn’t it?

This is the opposite of skill-based play.

Galen Grey.4709:

Fuz.5621:

Galen Grey.4709:

And thats exactly the problem! people measuring Gw2 like any other MMO even though its not!

It is now.

Page 2, 31st post from the top of this thread.

Already explained to you in detail how no its still not the same MMO.

And you’re wrong.

plasmacutter.2709:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

plasmacutter.2709:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

plasmacutter.2709:

Really?

I thought it was removing skill from the combat in the game.

This game was designed and launched around the idea that if you don’t actively dodge damage and remove conditions (e.g. you didn’t pay attention) you would be unable to progress very far, and if you were particularly reactive and did well at avoiding damage, you would be rewarded for your skill.

Not anymore. Agony is “unavoidable”, you can’t overcome it with skill no matter what, and you’re stuck stacking a boring resistance stat which allows you to “cheese” an encounter with “gear”.

That is the OPPOSITE of skill-based combat. I don’t want to see it anymore in this game, and I want the option to completely ignore FotM.

Are you sure about “unavoidable”? I had someone telling me that Agony is attached to certain boss attacks and thus can be dodged for the most part.

It was in the patch notes. Unavoidable and irremovable by any traditional means.

I know about the patch notes, I know about the interviews and blog posts. I also know I asked two people what was up with Agony and they let me know some things. Also:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13ecxn/information_about_agony_and_agony_resistance/

There’s that?

Agony and its associated resistance serves one function: Allowing you to “cheese” events with “gear”.

This is the opposite of skill-based play.

Well, no. Right now you get only a limited amount of Agony Resistance. So while it won’t kill you, it will still mess you up. Again, from someone I chatted with while I was waiting in Lion’s Arch. Point is you still don’t want to get hit. Sure, you can survive a hit . . . but you would be better off not hit at all.

The gameplay rewards skill, just as much as if the Agony Resistance wasn’t there. Maybe even more so, because you’d not be hit rather than surviving it. And as we all know, 0 damage is better than any amount. Especially if other effects get stacked on with Agony.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

plasmacutter.2709:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

plasmacutter.2709:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

plasmacutter.2709:

Really?

I thought it was removing skill from the combat in the game.

This game was designed and launched around the idea that if you don’t actively dodge damage and remove conditions (e.g. you didn’t pay attention) you would be unable to progress very far, and if you were particularly reactive and did well at avoiding damage, you would be rewarded for your skill.

Not anymore. Agony is “unavoidable”, you can’t overcome it with skill no matter what, and you’re stuck stacking a boring resistance stat which allows you to “cheese” an encounter with “gear”.

That is the OPPOSITE of skill-based combat. I don’t want to see it anymore in this game, and I want the option to completely ignore FotM.

Are you sure about “unavoidable”? I had someone telling me that Agony is attached to certain boss attacks and thus can be dodged for the most part.

It was in the patch notes. Unavoidable and irremovable by any traditional means.

I know about the patch notes, I know about the interviews and blog posts. I also know I asked two people what was up with Agony and they let me know some things. Also:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13ecxn/information_about_agony_and_agony_resistance/

There’s that?

Agony and its associated resistance serves one function: Allowing you to “cheese” events with “gear”.

This is the opposite of skill-based play.

Well, no. Right now you get only a limited amount of Agony Resistance. So while it won’t kill you, it will still mess you up. Again, from someone I chatted with while I was waiting in Lion’s Arch. Point is you still don’t want to get hit. Sure, you can survive a hit . . . but you would be better off not hit at all.

The gameplay rewards skill, just as much as if the Agony Resistance wasn’t there. Maybe even more so, because you’d not be hit rather than surviving it. And as we all know, 0 damage is better than any amount. Especially if other effects get stacked on with Agony.

The presence of this stat in “infusions” and the fact that all pieces of gear will have it will mean anyone who is not stacking agony resist will be told to GTFO and DIAF.

The only way agony promotes skill based combat over gear based combat is if they ditch the idea of agony resist and tune it as simply a condition that punishes people for failing to avoid attacks.

plasmacutter.2709:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

plasmacutter.2709:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

plasmacutter.2709:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

plasmacutter.2709:

Really?

I thought it was removing skill from the combat in the game.

This game was designed and launched around the idea that if you don’t actively dodge damage and remove conditions (e.g. you didn’t pay attention) you would be unable to progress very far, and if you were particularly reactive and did well at avoiding damage, you would be rewarded for your skill.

Not anymore. Agony is “unavoidable”, you can’t overcome it with skill no matter what, and you’re stuck stacking a boring resistance stat which allows you to “cheese” an encounter with “gear”.

That is the OPPOSITE of skill-based combat. I don’t want to see it anymore in this game, and I want the option to completely ignore FotM.

Are you sure about “unavoidable”? I had someone telling me that Agony is attached to certain boss attacks and thus can be dodged for the most part.

It was in the patch notes. Unavoidable and irremovable by any traditional means.

I know about the patch notes, I know about the interviews and blog posts. I also know I asked two people what was up with Agony and they let me know some things. Also:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13ecxn/information_about_agony_and_agony_resistance/

There’s that?

Agony and its associated resistance serves one function: Allowing you to “cheese” events with “gear”.

This is the opposite of skill-based play.

Well, no. Right now you get only a limited amount of Agony Resistance. So while it won’t kill you, it will still mess you up. Again, from someone I chatted with while I was waiting in Lion’s Arch. Point is you still don’t want to get hit. Sure, you can survive a hit . . . but you would be better off not hit at all.

The gameplay rewards skill, just as much as if the Agony Resistance wasn’t there. Maybe even more so, because you’d not be hit rather than surviving it. And as we all know, 0 damage is better than any amount. Especially if other effects get stacked on with Agony.

The presence of this stat in “infusions” and the fact that all pieces of gear will have it will mean anyone who is not stacking agony resist will be told to GTFO and DIAF.

The only way agony promotes skill based combat over gear based combat is if they ditch the idea of agony resist and tune it as simply a condition that punishes people for failing to avoid attacks.

Only once Agony kicks in as a mechanic, which is at difficulties 10+. I think there were confirmed cases of the Ascended rings dropping before that. If that’s true you don’t even need to go deal with Agony for the rings.

Of course, you can also not get the rings at all. Or set foot in Fractals except to tick your Montly Achievements.

Have you actually…you know…played in a bracket where agony is present?

That’s what agony is in nearly all situations. Another condition applied to already existing boss attacks that punishes you for not avoiding it, and if you really think that resistance is going to let you sit there and facetank all the bosses attacks with agony in them, you’re going to be looking at a pretty hefty repair bill.

The ONLY exception to the 100% avoidable rule is the Jade Maw, and even that can be played around in the 10-19 bracket with little difficulty.

Hobocop.1508:

Have you actually…you know…played in a bracket where agony is present?

That’s what agony is in nearly all situations. Another condition applied to already existing boss attacks that punishes you for not avoiding it, and if you really think that resistance is going to let you sit there and facetank all the bosses attacks with agony in them, you’re going to be looking at a pretty hefty repair bill.

The ONLY exception is the Jade Maw, and even that can be played around in the 10-19 bracket with little difficulty.

Ah, but the point the other poster was making was that the Infusions let you ignore the Agony effect so it’s still required and takes no skill.

Yeah I’m not sure I get it either.

It does not matter if they added 1 tier or 100 tiers of new armor. The fact is they added it. It goes against everything they advertised.

I played gw1 until the launch of this game and loved the fact that armor meant nothing it was for looks, and the skill of the player did not rely on the stats of his/her armor.

This was a complete slap in the face to the fans. We were lied too and quite frankly that disgusts me and there not getting any more money from me, and I know I am not the only one.

Silentstorm.7531:

Just because you don’t agree with a subject. Why because I called people whining care bears? For one whining itself is care bear regardless of the subject people should man up.

So, when GW2 actually looked like it was following its manifesto, and a subset of the players complained about no endgame because they sped-run their way through everything, that was also whining, and they should have just manned up. You cannot have it both ways. Guess what, they didn’t just man up and shut up, and there has been a change. So, there is a precedent for complaints getting responded to.

Fuz.5621:

Galen Grey.4709:

Fuz.5621:

Galen Grey.4709:

And thats exactly the problem! people measuring Gw2 like any other MMO even though its not!

It is now.

Page 2, 31st post from the top of this thread.

Already explained to you in detail how no its still not the same MMO.

And you’re wrong.

care to be a bit more specific?
I mentioned the 5 main things that sets Gw2 aside from other MMOs and how ascended armor doesnt change any of them! you think they’re all wrong?

Ascended armor made Dynamic events less imerssive?

Ascended armor made reaching max level take longer?

Is there any content at all I cant play without having Ascended armor?

will I get destroyed in sPvP without Ascended armor?

will I get destroyed in WvW without Ascended armor?

Veltoss.9135:

Buzzcrave.6197:

Veltoss.9135:

My god people.. they added one tier of gear as a one-time gameplay improvement, why the kitten is everyone acting like this is the apocolypse?

It may be one gear now, but when all the QQers get those Ascended, they will complain more. What will Anet do then? Add another tier of item. This is how gear-treadmill happens. kitten like this happened alot of time on others mmo, and Im afraid it will happen on GW2 as well.

So you guys think it’s a good idea to make >huge< assumptions and complain non-stop about something that has not yet happened and may never happen? How is this helping anyone? How is this beneficial?

It’s beneficial because it lets Arenanet know how their customers feel BEFORE they decide to change the game irreparably. There is nothing wrong with well thought out criticism; only mindless fuming is detrimental.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Silentstorm.7531:

Just because you don’t agree with a subject. Why because I called people whining care bears? For one whining itself is care bear regardless of the subject people should man up.

So, when GW2 actually looked like it was following its manifesto, and a subset of the players complained about no endgame because they sped-run their way through everything, that was also whining, and they should have just manned up. You cannot have it both ways. Guess what, they didn’t just man up and shut up, and there has been a change. So, there is a precedent for complaints getting responded to.

In fact, there is no one who whines harder than hardcores when they aren’t getting their content fix as fast as they’d like it. And they do not stop whining until they get what they want. I have seen this happen in multiple games since I started playing MMOs in 2001.

They are people who have a need to prove themselves superior to other people by acquiring shiny toys in a video game, they pout and scream like a toddler who had his pacifier taken away when they don’t get things their way, and then they accuse everyone else of acting childish for imagining that the game should offer content that appeals to more than one narrow playstyle.

Truly er, Legendary. :P

Fuz.5621:

Galen Grey.4709:

Page 2, 31st post from the top of this thread.

Already explained to you in detail how no its still not the same MMO.

And you’re wrong.

care to be a bit more specific?
I mentioned the 5 main things that sets Gw2 aside from other MMOs and how ascended armor doesnt change any of them! you think they’re all wrong?

Ascended armor made Dynamic events less imerssive?

Ascended armor made reaching max level take longer?

Is there any content at all I cant play without having Ascended armor?

will I get destroyed in sPvP without Ascended armor?

will I get destroyed in WvW without Ascended armor?

Galen Grey,

Ascended gear messes with the psychology of the game. The motivation for things becomes external as opposed to internally motivated. People are doing things for the best gear and that changes the mindset of players. Tunnel vision sets in as people chase after the carrot. It changes the whole dynamic of the game in my opinion. At least it does for me.

Enzomiles.6197:

Galen Grey,

Ascended gear messes with the psychology of the game. The motivation for things becomes external as opposed to internally motivated. People are doing things for the best gear and that changes the mindset of players. Tunnel vision sets in as people chase after the carrot. It changes the whole dynamic of the game in my opinion. At least it does for me.

I understand what you’re saying. And I agree with you, it was a mistake to introduce ascended gear that had better stats because like you said people will be drawn to it. However is it really a carrot at the end of the day? honestly for me Ascended gear is a bad thing to have! I am not kidding I would rather not wear it! even with a rare armor set the game is way too easy! I did an experiment today, I tried to do a little WvW without any armor, removed everything including accessories! unfortunately I didnt have a lot of time and it was early in the morning so not many players which in a way it was good didnt want to be in a zerg which would skew my effectiveness. Anyhow end result was 7 kills and 2 deaths! I even soloed a few events in WvW wearing no armor!

I think people are making the mistake of considering Gw2 to be like other MMOs where success or failure depends primarily on your armor but this is a skill based game first and foremost! Gear helps obviously but not as much as people are imaging! Try it out for yourself try playing the game with no armor and you’ll see you’ll still be very effective!

Galen Grey,

You’re probably right about how much the stats are minor. But that is looking at it rationally. Games are fundamentally emotional not rational. I personally just don’t feel complete until I have max gear and am not free to play around until I have it. Call it my own personal insecurities but I think it’s just part of human nature.

Yep cant have fun when in the back of your mind you know you’re a weak link.

RhysSebastian.7651:

This thread is filled with whine.

Apparently no one has figured out that MMOs that have a static environment die. Adding new things to do (like finding new cool sets) keeps an MMO alive. T

This isn’t a sandbox MMO, where you can go outside and do wtf you want. Its a themepark game with a progression system. If you want sandbox play go play Eve online, tibia, or darkfall.

I love that they are adding new content I DONT HAVE TO PAY FOR, and the fact that the fractals are abosutely stunning in design.

If you don’t like the way the culture is on your server, then make a guild focusing on older dungeons. YOU SHOULD NOT BE WHINING ABOUT DECISIONS OF OTHER PLAYERS, the developers cant control that kitten. They can steer it mildly, but this whining about not finding groups is purely cultural. You can and always will be able to run other dungeons and attain the gear.

As for ascended items, they have already stated theyw ill be having multiple paths to attain it, and that ascended armor is essentially legendary armor.

You don’t kitten when people attain a legendary weapon do you?

For people

this guy’s right! change is important to a game. even one like gw2. sure, gw2 had a “manifesto”. but so does communism, and look how that works for them!

i think all these changes which are emulating wow aren’t necessarily a bad thing.

i mean, they worked for swg, amirite?

Enzomiles.6197:

I mentioned the 5 main things that sets Gw2 aside from other MMOs and how ascended armor doesnt change any of them! you think they’re all wrong?

Let’s look at them one by one then. You do have a point somewhere but I will get back to that.

Enzomiles.6197:

Ascended armor made Dynamic events less imerssive?

Considering that most people are grinding away now to get these ascended pieces which requires a lot of work and materials and such, one could argue it is harder to find people to do events with. So yes, there is an issue here. Not the gear itself but the fact that people need to do very specific things for it and are fully occupied doing it. As soon as this slows down I am sure Anet will be ready to introduce the next ascended gear pieces.

Enzomiles.6197:

Ascended armor made reaching max level take longer?

No, it doesn’t, but that’s really besides the point. The duration of leveling is not relevant to this issue since this is gear that is available to max level characters. So this is an invalid point.

Enzomiles.6197:

Is there any content at all I cant play without having Ascended armor?

Not at this moment but I expect that will change when the full armour set of ascended gear will be out. Apparently there is already a requirement for FotM for which level you are at. This is not directly asking for ascended gear but it does indicate that this behaviour is already starting and I expect it to increase over time.

Enzomiles.6197:

will I get destroyed in sPvP without Ascended armor?

will I get destroyed in WvW without Ascended armor?

Not today, but the prospect is there. Once ascended gear is a full set, there will be a significant difference between players who have this gear, fully infused blah blah and those who don’t. Also because it is harder to collect than exotic gear it will take longer. This will affect WvW within the next 6 moths in my expectation. sPvP has it’s own gear and there is no ascended gear there…….yet.

Now, I do get your general idea that ascended gear by itself doesn’t suddenly change the complete game as it is today. But what we do see is that the game is going into a different direction. If you don’t like the direction, you tend to not wanna tag along. Let’s say that you take a train to visit family in town A and the train changes direction to location B. You may not be far off track yet but you don’t want to go to B, you wanted to go to A.

So the big problem is where this game is going. But along with that, I now see people coming to the forum talking about people requiring level xx for FotM and other areas emptying out because a lot of people are grinding FotM. So there is a direct impact that is starting to take place, also in attitude and a future direction that a number of people find undesirable.

What can I say, some people may decide lightning is coming whent hey see the clouds gather and hear thunder. People like you seem to need to be struck by lightning before they believe it was coming. Sometimes the signs are clear enough.

Gehenna.3625:

What can I say, some people may decide lightning is coming whent hey see the clouds gather and hear thunder. People like you seem to need to be struck by lightning before they believe it was coming. Sometimes the signs are clear enough.

I dislike analogies like this. This is a “mortal imminent danger” sort of thing, at which I wouldn’t take chances. I don’t expect to be struck by lightning, no, that’s an unlikely chance even if I was standing in my backyard, in full platemail and holding a steel lance over my head. Of course, if there was a lightning storm I’d be inside looking for candles in case of a power outage and getting water chilled.

Please stop comparing this change to “mortal imminent danger”. Pretty please. I do not require playing this game. I do require my life. There is a nontrivial difference.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Please stop comparing this change to “mortal imminent danger”. Pretty please. I do not require playing this game. I do require my life. There is a nontrivial difference.

But this is the thing you don’t get… It is both very clear mortal danger to many of us. There are tens if not HUNDREDS of grinding gear progression MMOs that come out with higher level caps and gear tiers in expansions. There is NO OTHER MMO built on the idea of horizontal progression without the ever expanding stat ceiling (other than GW1 ofc).

This is the reason those opposing ascended gear are speaking out so strongly. We have one last hope, and it is being ruined by people that want a TOTALLY different kind of game, and bought this one being wholly uninformed as to what kind of game it was supposed to be.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Gehenna.3625:

What can I say, some people may decide lightning is coming whent hey see the clouds gather and hear thunder. People like you seem to need to be struck by lightning before they believe it was coming. Sometimes the signs are clear enough.

I dislike analogies like this. This is a “mortal imminent danger” sort of thing, at which I wouldn’t take chances. I don’t expect to be struck by lightning, no, that’s an unlikely chance even if I was standing in my backyard, in full platemail and holding a steel lance over my head. Of course, if there was a lightning storm I’d be inside looking for candles in case of a power outage and getting water chilled.

Please stop comparing this change to “mortal imminent danger”. Pretty please. I do not require playing this game. I do require my life. There is a nontrivial difference.

That’s because you focus on the wrong part. I was clearly refering to the point that you can see undesirable events or situations coming. To deny the obvious when there are clear signs is silly to me. That’s all I intended with that. The mortal danger element was not the point at all, so you can disregard that completely.

Gehenna.3625:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Gehenna.3625:

What can I say, some people may decide lightning is coming whent hey see the clouds gather and hear thunder. People like you seem to need to be struck by lightning before they believe it was coming. Sometimes the signs are clear enough.

I dislike analogies like this. This is a “mortal imminent danger” sort of thing, at which I wouldn’t take chances. I don’t expect to be struck by lightning, no, that’s an unlikely chance even if I was standing in my backyard, in full platemail and holding a steel lance over my head. Of course, if there was a lightning storm I’d be inside looking for candles in case of a power outage and getting water chilled.

Please stop comparing this change to “mortal imminent danger”. Pretty please. I do not require playing this game. I do require my life. There is a nontrivial difference.

That’s because you focus on the wrong part. I was clearly refering to the point that you can see undesirable events or situations coming. To deny the obvious when there are clear signs is silly to me. That’s all I intended with that. The mortal danger element was not the point at all, so you can disregard that completely.

Amonde Daneren.2380:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Please stop comparing this change to “mortal imminent danger”. Pretty please. I do not require playing this game. I do require my life. There is a nontrivial difference.

But this is the thing you don’t get… It is both very clear mortal danger to many of us. There are tens if not HUNDREDS of grinding gear progression MMOs that come out with higher level caps and gear tiers in expansions. There is NO OTHER MMO built on the idea of horizontal progression without the ever expanding stat ceiling (other than GW1 ofc).

This is the reason those opposing ascended gear are speaking out so strongly. We have one last hope, and it is being ruined by people that want a TOTALLY different kind of game, and bought this one being wholly uninformed as to what kind of game it was supposed to be.

“Imminent mortal danger” is “I am going to die if I do or don’t do something”.

This isn’t that. You feel strongly for the game. I feel strongly for the game. We can live without it. (I know we don’t want to, or we wouldn’t be here talking about it, we’d be looking for something else to be doing.) There is a nontrivial chance of a change you won’t want and I won’t want happening, but it’s not the same as being hit by lightning, burning up in a fire, being shot in the leg, ignoring warning signs to death or injury . . .

It’s not the same. It cheapens such dire events and to those who don’t agree with you it makes it look like you’re going overboard. That’s ALL I am trying to say here. Nobody is in danger of dying and pulling analogies about death and injury is a bit too far.

Please, find another analogy of undesirable events which don’t relate to death or dying.

I explained what I intended with it…why do you need another analogy? Was my last explanation not clear enough to get my point?

IndigoSundown.5419:

Silentstorm.7531:

Just because you don’t agree with a subject. Why because I called people whining care bears? For one whining itself is care bear regardless of the subject people should man up.

So, when GW2 actually looked like it was following its manifesto, and a subset of the players complained about no endgame because they sped-run their way through everything, that was also whining, and they should have just manned up. You cannot have it both ways. Guess what, they didn’t just man up and shut up, and there has been a change. So, there is a precedent for complaints getting responded to.

Solid point. They could have been told, “hey we told you how this game was going to be and you just ignored that and ran the content at light-speed and now you get what you sow. We aren’t changing our vision we’ve had during the entire development of GW2, for a % of power gamers”. Or simply “Man-up”, meaning shut up and take it like you take everything else. That one works both ways.

nysta.6713:

this guy’s right! change is important to a game. even one like gw2. sure, gw2 had a “manifesto”. but so does communism, and look how that works for them!

Funny thing that you mention communism. You are, of course, aware, that one of the main reasons why communism ended badly was because it didn’t follow their own “manifest”?

Astralporing.1957:

nysta.6713:

this guy’s right! change is important to a game. even one like gw2. sure, gw2 had a “manifesto”. but so does communism, and look how that works for them!

Funny thing that you mention communism. You are, of course, aware, that one of the main reasons why communism ended badly was because it didn’t follow their own “manifest”?

time to bring out monty python.

“I was terrified of him. Everyone was terrified of Doug. I’ve seen grown men pull their own heads off rather than see Doug. Even Dinsdale was frightened of Doug.”
“What did he do?”
“He used sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor, bathos, puns, parody, litotes and satire.”

Totally agree OP.

Enzomiles.6197:

Galen Grey,

You’re probably right about how much the stats are minor. But that is looking at it rationally. Games are fundamentally emotional not rational. I personally just don’t feel complete until I have max gear and am not free to play around until I have it. Call it my own personal insecurities but I think it’s just part of human nature.

Thats fair enough and I do understand it! But as long as you understand you’re not missing out much but not having you can rest easy that taking a month or two to get it is not a big deal. So why not wait until they add more ways how to acquire ascended gear if FoTM is not something you enjoy doing?

Gehenna.3625:

Not at this moment but I expect that will change when the full armour set of ascended gear will be out. Apparently there is already a requirement for FotM for which level you are at. This is not directly asking for ascended gear but it does indicate that this behaviour is already starting and I expect it to increase over time.

Will it really? I mean so far we have 2 ascended items, rings you get by doing FoTM Thats no different then say getting a dungeon armor set. People have been doing dungeons before ascended gear but that didnt mean no people were doing dynamic events especially considering that to do back items you need crafting materials that you dont get from FoTM but rather the open world!

Gehenna.3625:

Not today, but the prospect is there. Once ascended gear is a full set, there will be a significant difference between players who have this gear, fully infused blah blah and those who don’t. Also because it is harder to collect than exotic gear it will take longer. This will affect WvW within the next 6 moths in my expectation. sPvP has it’s own gear and there is no ascended gear there…….yet.

even if they introduce ascended gear in sPvP, everyone will have access to it, it would be crazy to change that imho so I personally do not worry about that!

As for WvW I did an experiment yesterday morning. I removed all my armor and gave it a try. so I didnt down grade myself 1 tier but 5 whole tiers! I did 7 kills and died twice
I was also able to solo events in WvW again with no armor what so ever on (am including accessories here including rings, back items, earnings and amulate. I was literally wearing nothing!) Not saying an ascended gear set will not give you an advantage it will increase your stats a little of course but this is still a skill based game, better stats dont help as much as people are thinking they do imho!

Gehenna.3625:

Now, I do get your general idea that ascended gear by itself doesn’t suddenly change the complete game as it is today. But what we do see is that the game is going into a different direction. If you don’t like the direction, you tend to not wanna tag along. Let’s say that you take a train to visit family in town A and the train changes direction to location B. You may not be far off track yet but you don’t want to go to B, you wanted to go to A.

So the big problem is where this game is going. But along with that, I now see people coming to the forum talking about people requiring level xx for FotM and other areas emptying out because a lot of people are grinding FotM. So there is a direct impact that is starting to take place, also in attitude and a future direction that a number of people find undesirable.

I think this part is a complex issue. I think Arenanet tried to strike a compromise and it just backfired. I think they tried to have a vertical progression system in one dungeon while keeping the rest of the game horizontal ! They figured people who didnt want to grind for Ascended armor could just ignore it because outside of FotM no content requires it at all ! Thats why they introduced Infusion / Agony. From my own personal calculation Ascended gear is 9-10% better then exotic while generally all other tiers are around 13% better. But I suspects that mainly because it leaves them free to provide vertical progression through infusions that give a very small boost to stats and eventually with enough levels of infusion they might get ascended gear to the proper 13%. At the same time they made a dungeon thats extensible and said they plan to add to it. Thats unpresidented why do such a thing? the reason that comes to mind is because this was intended as at least for now the only vertical progression content! this allows them to cater to both player bases. But it just didnt work as expected. I think they were hoping that people who go for horizontal progression just want gear that allows them to get the job done but instead it turns out they too want the best gear!

Gehenna.3625:

What can I say, some people may decide lightning is coming whent hey see the clouds gather and hear thunder. People like you seem to need to be struck by lightning before they believe it was coming. Sometimes the signs are clear enough.

Well I guess part of it might be because there is a proverb in my country that translated says something on the lines of “dont bandage your head before you actually hurt it” The game radically changing from horizontal progression to vertical progression is just one path the game can take! It may also be just a one time thing to try to provide some content for people who like vertical progression. In any case I expect this to be much clearer tomorrow after the AmA

Horrorscope.7632:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Silentstorm.7531:

Just because you don’t agree with a subject. Why because I called people whining care bears? For one whining itself is care bear regardless of the subject people should man up.

So, when GW2 actually looked like it was following its manifesto, and a subset of the players complained about no endgame because they sped-run their way through everything, that was also whining, and they should have just manned up. You cannot have it both ways. Guess what, they didn’t just man up and shut up, and there has been a change. So, there is a precedent for complaints getting responded to.

Solid point. They could have been told, “hey we told you how this game was going to be and you just ignored that and ran the content at light-speed and now you get what you sow. We aren’t changing our vision we’ve had during the entire development of GW2, for a % of power gamers”. Or simply “Man-up”, meaning shut up and take it like you take everything else. That one works both ways.

Actually this is a very important point thats not getting the consideration it deserves. People are way too sure that the reason they added this was because people on forum were asking for vertical progression but I have a feeling it may also have involved how people were playing the game. When you design a horizontal progression game rather then a vertical you have obviously got to do more horizontal content then vertical one. That means at any level there needs to be a lot more content to do then just that required to level me up! cast in point there are multiple zones of the same level. The content stashed in every zone over levels you 3 or more levels and outleveling a zone doesnt reduce your ability to play it and be rewarded. They definitely did their part well in creating a horizontal game.

In a horizontal game, gear / leveling is secondary and story and content is the primary driver. But were people really playing that way? in my experience not at all! I would start an event change and see people come rushing in after the dynamic event in a chain starts do the content and run off once it gave XP not caring there is a next event in the chain. I would specifically tell them one event continue they should hang around and they’d still leave! They werent playing for the content, they were playing for the reward! Thats not how you play a horizontal game. I did multiple youtube videos on this, showing the vast different experience you get if you take dynamic events a singular events or if you take them as a holisitc chain and many comments said things like, WoW I never knew they chained like that, not on day one but 2 months down the line!

We keep thinking that a small minority wanted vertical progression but it could also be that unfortunately the majority of the people just cant play a horizontal game like we do ! If you dont get a sense of wonder exploring, enjoying the art and experiencing stories what is there left for you to do in a horizontal progression game? If you cant enjoy a really beautifully crafted dynamic event chain, will you enjoy a skin that gives you no better stats?

If they added only the agony stats that is only required in FotM, no extra stats as huge as one extra upgrade slot, things would be quite different. It won’t be a gear progression, it will be a pure FotM progression and won’t affect WvWvW. But they just did it, while adding the mechanics of a Gating War. Now that discrimination has flooded over everywhere, map chat, guild chat … I felt this world of Tyria has become such a harsh and unpleasant land now.