Guild Wars 2

Groovy.6749:

Ascended gear/agony is part of the lore.

Your point….? Lore is just backstory something which games don’t 100% adhere to in a strict sense because gameplay is a FIRST priority. As it should be.

Groovy.6749:

Farming ectos and powerful blood isn’t that hard after being lvl80 for a while.

Yeah, its incredible boring and tedious – next.

Ohh if it was “so easy” why is the price so high? If it was the price should have tumbled at this point. But it rose and hit its peak.

Groovy.6749:

GW2’s ending is all about farming mats to get new skins.

So much wrong with this:
Ascended is the new exotics.
Ascended at its current state*: You get a book/quiver or jewelry. Jewelry isn’t shown on your character so that cosmetic thing is tossed right out of the window.

hint: most are farming 10/20 FoTM for *Jewlery those things that DON’T render on your character.

Groovy.6749:

So to me it sounds like you’ll still be grinding for mats as you were before Lost Shores, except that this time there is new gear that still fits in with the lore.

Relying on pure “lore” to backup your gameplay = bad move. It is just flavor, they could have called it “epics” and it would still be the exact same thing. Lore = flavor not gameplay.

Groovy.6749:

Anet said they would release legendary armors and more legendary weapons eventualy. As long as legendary remains the top tier, there is no real reason to worry about anything.

I don’t care for legendaries since it isn’t an “epic” quest as much as “go grind X forever till you toss me in a forge and make me”. Never seemed at all fun to me so I really don’t care what they do with them. Though I do hear they are making more of them but NOT doing it the same way as the first set…..Thankfully.

Groovy.6749:

Are you guys going to over-react as well when they release an expansion pack and the level cap is most likely increased ?

The community? Yeah. Me? I hope they increase it personally. I like some sort of “gated” progression to ease me into the expansion.

Groovy.6749:

If you are a fan of GW2, farming mats shouldn’t be a problem for you. If you don’t understand why you should farm AKA grind mats, then chances are you aren’t even lvl80 yet and then why should your feedback matter on endgame issues since you don’t have a clue ?

Grinding mats = Not fun. Period. End of story. Thats why it is a grind. Now some grind can be fun in the form of Fractals to test yourself to see “how far can I go deal”, toss in a leaderboard and that section is set forever.

But killing easily killed mobs for days and days? Thats not fun nor engaging. Let me put it like this: A bot can “grind mats” better than ANY player for the fact they can do it 24/7. When that happens (bots with NO human control nor hacks) it becomes a snooze fest. No challenge. That isn’t fun at all. Especiall when you have DR hitting you making it so “you have to grind, but don’t grind too long or else we will hurt your grinding of mats which are so high you have to grind out for” – get it?

Dead.7385:

Grinding mats = Not fun. Period. End of story. Thats why it is a grind. Now some grind can be fun in the form of Fractals to test yourself to see “how far can I go deal”, toss in a leaderboard and that section is set forever.

But killing easily killed mobs for days and days? Thats not fun nor engaging. Let me put it like this: A bot can “grind mats” better than ANY player for the fact they can do it 24/7. When that happens (bots with NO human control nor hacks) it becomes a snooze fest. No challenge. That isn’t fun at all. Especiall when you have DR hitting you making it so “you have to grind, but don’t grind too long or else we will hurt your grinding of mats which are so high you have to grind out for” – get it?

The form of “how far can I go before I need to stop” was the basis of the “Challenge Missions” of GW1 from Factions onwards. The reward was points or special loot which was desired (but, yes, mostly cosmetic). And okay, the one for the Cloth of the Brotherhood was less “how far can I go” and more “when does it end?!”.

Also, “grinding” material has now been rewritten as “farming” material. Because there’s a distinction in the definitions apparently, I don’t find it that clear though. You “grind” if it’s for progress or you “farm” for objects, I think. Someone can better explain it than I.

Finally, I may not be 100% sure on this, but the “Diminishing Returns” mechanic is meant to encourage you to move on and do something else after a time rather than sit in the same spot. (What it actually does is make people fume because they had an efficient thing going and now they have to pack it up and leave.) I know there’s some of the Tier 6 materials dropping in Southsun Cove, hoping that the place can be built up a bit more so there’s more attraction to it.

Edit: Fixed the quote code

The real question begs, how long before we start to see in-game protests? Like my signature states, I’ve seen games with alot less problems have many many players protest such as EvE and this is very effective in getting developers to actually listen to the players, because lets face it ~ most developers are pretty arrogant sometimes, the famous story of a certain ‘developer’ having a Monday morning staff meetings to discuss forum suggestions, or should I say laugh at them?

Pustulio.8207:

So, what your saying is, that as more “ascended” gear gets introduced, they would be forced to make “legendary” items that are more legendary than “Legendary” items, after the “legendary” items get boosted up to the stats they are intending for “legendary” items?

Yes, that’s a logical consequence of the current decisions. Character progress cannot be capped (not if you want to keep the player engaged in the game). So, once you associate progress with a certain factor (level or gear stats increase, for example), you need to keep increasing that time and time again ad infinitum. GW2 staff has decided to associate progress with introducing a new gear tier. Once that decision fully sinks in, the connection will be set in stone. That means that, to keep progress going, they’ll need to introduce even newer and better tiers from time to time. If they ever stop, they will lose the crowd that introduction of ascended eq was meant to bring in. There isn’t that much time to reverse that decision before it will be just plain impossible to change that path. That is why lot of people are so frantic now – they know that if they’ll wait the time to do something will pass.

This has already happened in GW1 – at some point after Nightfall (and before Utopia) devs realized that adding new classes in each new campaign has created expectations they couldn’t meet – they had NO new classes to introduce anymore. This realization was one of the things that led to decision about making GW2 and abandoning GW1.

I’d rather NOT hear in some near future, that the devs have some great ideas that they unfortunately cannot contain within current model, and that’s why GW2 gets canned and GW3 development stage is announced.
(this of course assumes that in that nearby future i will even care about GW franchise)

I keep saying this to the treadmill care bears get over it. The number of the population who is whining about this is far too low. And majority of the people whining are just being lazy. Had you whined if it was already in the game from the star? This is a mmorpg it evolves remember that in the manifesto? EVER evolving meaning your going to get stronger and need better items.

You can’t side grade that or horizontal it. What did you really want us running around for a year pushing to get skin pallettes. Do you really think that is going to hold a population. If you really did think that work you got some good weed your smoking. Give it a rest with these post because I’m sure they don’t care if care bears leave. And I still don’t see any official sites claiming doomsday. Not a podcast not a blog not mmorpg.com mmosite massively. No where and they are the commercial dollars you whining here means about 2 pennies thrown down the street.

Just being honest with you guys just stop it had to be done get over it or play a ps3/xbox game that ends. A mmorpg will always evolve and have a gear goal. I lol that you guys expected a community to do mad king like events every month. And just change the look of your gear. You couldn’t possibly be that silly and think that lol……O……M…..G

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

The real question begs, how long before we start to see in-game protests? Like my signature states, I’ve seen games with alot less problems have many many players protest such as EvE and this is very effective in getting developers to actually listen to the players, because lets face it ~ most developers are pretty arrogant sometimes, the famous story of a certain ‘developer’ having a Monday morning staff meetings to discuss forum suggestions, or should I say laugh at them?

Just go flood the ecommerce sites with negative reviews. just before the holidays, they will have a big impact. If they see their Holiday sales miss expectations, someone will get fired, and the game will improve direction.

Silentstorm.7531:

I keep saying this to the treadmill care bears get over it. The number of the population who is whining about this is far too low. And majority of the people whining are just being lazy. Had you whined if it was already in the game from the star? This is a mmorpg it evolves remember that in the manifesto? EVER evolving meaning your going to get stronger and need better items.

You can’t side grade that or horizontal it. What did you really want us running around for a year pushing to get skin pallettes. Do you really think that is going to hold a population. If you really did think that work you got some good weed your smoking. Give it a rest with these post because I’m sure they don’t care if care bears leave. And I still don’t see any official sites claiming doomsday. Not a podcast not a blog not mmorpg.com mmosite massively. No where and they are the commercial dollars you whining here means about 2 pennies thrown down the street.

Just being honest with you guys just stop it had to be done get over it or play a ps3/xbox game that ends. A mmorpg will always evolve and have a gear goal. I lol that you guys expected a community to do mad king like events every month. And just change the look of your gear. You couldn’t possibly be that silly and think that lol……O……M…..G

O.M.G….you golf players still play when you don’t get a gear advantage when you win a tournament. How can you still play?

O.M.G….you chess players are such care bears. You mean you don’t level up your kings when you win. Noobs

O.M.G…. NASCA drivers. So kitten lazy that you don’t get better cars when you win. What is wrong with you driving around with welfare engines. Scrubs

O.M.G…. you football players. What do you mean you don’t get to use steroids when you win the super bowl. Inconceivable

Just because you have been conditioned by other games to think in a certain way doesn’t mean that there are no other possibilities. And just to be honest. Ascended gear are just pixels that are not really a progression because the new content will be tuned to that level right? It’s just an illusion of progress. LOL

Silentstorm.7531:

Had you whined if it was already in the game from the star?

(1) That’s just it, it wasn’t in, nor was it supposed to be. If people are in error, it was in believing the advertising, not in expecting something that was not going to happen.

Silentstorm.7531:

This is a mmorpg it evolves remember that in the manifesto? EVER evolving meaning your going to get stronger and need better items. If the advertising had said there would be gear inflation and grind, people would have bought, or not, based on thinking that is a good thing.

(2) That is your definition of evolve, it does not have to be the only one.

Silentstorm.7531:

You can’t side grade that or horizontal it. What did you really want us running around for a year pushing to get skin pallettes.

(3) I wanted ANet to produce a game in which anything you chose to do was rewarding. They fumbled the ball on that. They’re trying to fix it, if you believe Chris Whiteside.

Silentstorm.7531:

Do you really think that is going to hold a population. If you really did think that work you got some good weed your smoking.

(4) It worked in GW1. It could have worked in GW2. For some reason it hasn’t yet.

Silentstorm.7531:

Give it a rest with these post because I’m sure they don’t care if care bears leave.

(5) I’m pretty sure they do. After all, they cared that the grinders were leaving.

Silentstorm.7531:

And I still don’t see any official sites claiming doomsday. Not a podcast not a blog not mmorpg.com mmosite massively. No where and they are the commercial dollars you whining here means about 2 pennies thrown down the street.

Commercial sites don’t decide whether a game is a failure, communities do. Just ask Bioware.

Silentstorm.7531:

A mmorpg will always evolve and have a gear goal. I lol that you guys expected a community to do mad king like events every month. And just change the look of your gear. You couldn’t possibly be that silly and think that lol……O……M…..G

It’s nice you are so easily amused. As to MMO’s always having a gear goal, see (1) above. Gear grinds in MMO’s were created to fuel subscription rates. Being B2P means no sub, so gear grind was not necessary for sub retention.

ANet has said they are making Ascended and then Legendary. The escalation may end there, it may not. Time will tell, not me, and not you. So in the meantime, it’s too soon to say they are turning GW2 into a perpetual gear escalation game.

Fortuna.7259:

A treadmill just keeps you running. Can you craft yourself full Ascended yet so that you have nothing left to craft? No. Because you are meant to run rabbit, run!

come on this is really a weak argument. so if instead of releasing just a back and ring they released the whole set it wouldnt be a treadmill cause you can craft it all and be done. But because they’re releasing the set a few pieces at a time it magically becomes a treadmill because ohh you cant be done this month you can only finish the back and rings… there is still the reset of the set remaining! Also you conveniently didnt the answer the most crucial question why you personally want to have this Ascended gear? what is the reason you cant be happy with your existent exotic set?

Fortuna.7259:

Will you listen to yourself? They said it is a one time thing but they reserved the right to do it again?

OK, I’ll just stop right there.

Yes its called honesty. Since no one has a crystal ball you dont know what you’ll plan to do in 2, 3 years down the line, you dont even know what your players will want then. All he can say is the current plans and what he said is current plans are not to introduce a new tier. Personally I am more inclined to believe him with such an answer then if he had said oh dont worry this is the last tier ever we promise. You know what? the first answer hurt him because some people took one look at it and said see he didnt say never so they obviously plan to do it again even though he said no such thing.

If he had said never 1/2 this issue would be defused but would it be the absolute truth or just saying what we wanted to hear?

You just keep assuming the worst, and I dont fully blame you for it, they did take the first step down that road when they introduced ascended gear but lets not assume they’re going to take it all the way down that dark path or even worst that we’re already there just yet! on monday Chris Whiteside will be doing an AMA. I am sure all of these questions will be asked and I am sure people participating will force him to clarify a few things and we’ll get a clearer picture of what they plan to do!

IndigoSundown.5419:

ANet has said they are making Ascended and then Legendary. The escalation may end there, it may not. Time will tell, not me, and not you. So in the meantime, it’s too soon to say they are turning GW2 into a perpetual gear escalation game.

I hope it ends there . . . for the time being. If two years down the line we have the cap at 120 instead of 80, I’d hope that Ascended is used as the pinnacle for the 80-100 levels and a new tier in 100-120.

Why do I say that? Well, mostly this – consider the tiers you have available and when. At least, where I’d aim for:

- 1-10, you’ll be decked out in Basic (White) and Fine (Blue). Mostly Basic and not having your full armor set yet without going out of your way for it. (Protip: Don’t. Do your personal story for it.)
- 10-30, Masterwork (Green) starts to show up and its base range is higher than Fine. You won’t see that much at first, but it’s not going to be hard to see you phasing out Basic in favor of Fine and Masterwork.
- 30-60, Rare (Yellow) now starts to drop and it’s a significant boost off Fine. Of course, it’s not easy to find so you’re likely going to either turn to crafting it, go to the Trading Post, or do jumping puzzles / events with chests. (Note: those last two can be a boon. I think you are guaranteed a rare the first time you do any of the three Dragon Champions.)
- 60-80, Exotic (Orange/Gold) appears. This is the best you’re going to see as you hit Orr and you won’t see it drop often. On the bright side, you can complete the map in these leveled areas and get one randomized item handed to you. Or you can start saving your Karma from Daily Achievements (now anyway) or events to replace Fine/Masterwork one piece at a time. Or you can dive into dungeons.
- Ascended (Red/Pink). Well now you’ve pushed past the terrors of Orr and come out the other side alive. This tier is available through effort and assumes you dedicate yourself to looking into earning it. These are unique items, reminders of lore of past heroes, and now you can get your hands on them. Now this gear’s Infusions protects you from Agony, which is a product of creatures manipulating the Mists against you. Most times . . . you’ll never need its protection. Take on one the challenges of the deep Mists? Come prepared with it or skill or both.
- Whatever-Tier (who knows what color). The next threat has been exposed to Tyria, and it’s going to need something more than just enchanted metal. You need to study the opponent and their nature, and it turns out their own power is one of the most effective things to use against them. And by studying it you now know how to harden yourself against it. Kill them, harness their essences, and forge your weapons and armor to withstand their attacks and return their favor. Of course . . . don’t take it to the battlegrounds in the Mists. It’s no good there. (i.e., No using it on WvWvW)
- Legendary. Weapons and trinkets which are not the product of old legends but the start of new ones. Making one should be a feat to be remembered and celebrated, the culmination of your career as an adventurer. For all the unpleasant times, for the trials you overcame, and to show you are serious about leading a new age . . . this is yours.

All fluff and stuff, and sure I’d tweak it while working on it. The point being that Ascended should be reserved for anything dealing with the Mists and if another tier comes in, it should be for threats on/against Tyria. And the idea that Agony is reserved pretty much for special types of bosses post-80 prevents you from absolutely requiring the gear.

Columba.9730:

StormGryffen.7638:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

StormGryffen.7638:

Columba.9730:

No, it will not end well. YOu cannot alienate your most loyal customers and keep operating. RUle #1 of any business.

I keep seeing language like this being thrown around. A lot. While this statement is on its surface true, how are you more representative of the loyal customer base than the folks still happily playing the game and who do not feel alienated? It would seem a contradiction, because those players are, after all, being some measure more “loyal,” if such a thing were to be measured, or at least it would seem so, right?

Please . . . don’t get into a system of trying to measure loyalty . . . THAT is something that never ends well because then you get people saying they’re the TRUE fans because of A, while a bunch of other people say THEY are the REAL fans because they oppose A.

They both care about the game, and disagree vehemently on one point. They are both loyal to the game, but not in agreement.

I apologize. I now recognize the bad taste in the question. Its only that I see two or three people acting like they’re the exclusive loyal playerbase and it flies in the face of logic to me. I’ve conceded before and I’ll concede again that there are some good points to be made about the criticism regarding changes inherent in the recent update, I suppose I’ve just made myself wary of all the heavy-handedness by reading these forums too long. I’ll delete the post, and I hope that no one will take the question personally.

I refer to the people who stayed loyal to GW1 and purchased this game based on what was promised. Not the people who had no idea what the game promised, no experience with GW1 and asked the game to be something other than what it was. I consider the former brand loyalists.

I am one of those players and while I dont like the idea of Ascended armor at all as it is implemented right now it doesnt bother me beyond it could get worst in the future. Right now it can even be total ignored with real repercussions! So while if I was part of the design team I would have voted against this, its implementation doesnt alienate me. In a way I am grateful they implemented in such a way that they can keep providing progression through infusions, limiting to the one dungeon without effecting the open world.

They tried to compromise between two groups of people, both customers who just happen to want opposite things.

And I am not sure I am comfortable with your argument that brand loyalty should get preferential treatment. All customers should be equal, we all paid for the game. Think about it, how would you feel if you walk into a restaurant ask for the table you reserved and which the restaurant confirmed and being told that your table reservation was dropped because a loyal customer called in and there was no other table available but since you were new they thought it would be unfair to alienate a loyal customer. Would you think thats a sensible thing to do?

Dont get me wrong I am definitely not saying its fine to do the opposite of what your loyal fan base want and like I said many times now I would have much rather ascended armor didnt have better stats but rather was exotic armor with an infusion slot and perhaps a cooler skin but we should appreciate the fact that they didnt totally ignore us when they designed it. They tried to compromise by having gear progression through infusions rather then new tiers and making those infusions primarily about resisting a game mechanic thats exclusive to this one place!

Silentstorm.7531:

I keep saying this to the treadmill care bears get over it. The number of the population who is whining about this is far too low. And majority of the people whining are just being lazy. Had you whined if it was already in the game from the star? This is a mmorpg it evolves remember that in the manifesto? EVER evolving meaning your going to get stronger and need better items.

You can’t side grade that or horizontal it. What did you really want us running around for a year pushing to get skin pallettes. Do you really think that is going to hold a population. If you really did think that work you got some good weed your smoking. Give it a rest with these post because I’m sure they don’t care if care bears leave. And I still don’t see any official sites claiming doomsday. Not a podcast not a blog not mmorpg.com mmosite massively. No where and they are the commercial dollars you whining here means about 2 pennies thrown down the street.

Just being honest with you guys just stop it had to be done get over it or play a ps3/xbox game that ends. A mmorpg will always evolve and have a gear goal. I lol that you guys expected a community to do mad king like events every month. And just change the look of your gear. You couldn’t possibly be that silly and think that lol……O……M…..G

Ah yeh see this is EXACTLY the kind of raider scum I was hoping to get away from. The “this is our game” crap has already started and they Just got their foot in the door. But I have news for you if this game goes all in on the gear treadmill this game wont have the population of Warhammer by the end of it.

Also a carebear is someone who avoids PVP combat, someone probably more like you.
There is nothing hardcore about grinding dungeons.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Rezzet.3614:

i dont see what the problem is the gear-threadmill is not a problem in this game because you are NOT being charged 20$ monthly and being forced to play and its not like the new gear triples in power compared to the current gear the diferences are minimal, but yeah what the hell is rong with new things in game over time if we are NOT being charged at all for them.

It’s not “wrong” . . . not in a fundamental way, taken on its own.

The problem comes in when you start taking the one fact “It’s okay to add new things to the game” and people don’t like that new thing. Now you have a problem, partly in the fact you added something which was unpopular with some people and partly in the fact there’s players who are not happy with you now.

How do you solve it? Well if it was that simple, you just take it back out, say “oops” and go on with your work.

Now, the problem compounds when part of the players don’t want you to remove it. Who cares what the reason is, the crucial part is there are at least two groups in opposition over the simple “we added this”.

How do you solve this problem?

It gets better, though. Say now that when you added this you firmly thought “this will be cool” and your idea wasn’t received well. (This is also a gross understatement).

How do you solve it now?

Edit: Hint – You’re not going to make everyone happy in the last two options. It’s just not happening. We’re now back to square one – you have a problem

The best middle-ground response is to spread Ascended gear as far and wide as exotics were at the launch of the game. This removes the general feeling that you MUST run (explative-deleted)-hard fractals just to get meaningful rewards for your max-level toon, and will thus stop the bleeding and start the healing on the heavily-impacted “other parts” of the game.

You can even toss out new armor models for each Ascended set on the existing explorer mode dungeons.

Do I dislike the fact they’re introducing a vertical gear-grind? YES. BUT the much more pressing and important factor is that tying this Ascended gear to only one aspect of the game has bled the others dry. Further, pushing people who are after shinies into the most difficult aspect of the game has encouraged exclusionary behavior in an effort to seek “easier means” as well as outright elitist trolling.

plasmacutter.2709:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Rezzet.3614:

i dont see what the problem is the gear-threadmill is not a problem in this game because you are NOT being charged 20$ monthly and being forced to play and its not like the new gear triples in power compared to the current gear the diferences are minimal, but yeah what the hell is rong with new things in game over time if we are NOT being charged at all for them.

It’s not “wrong” . . . not in a fundamental way, taken on its own.

The problem comes in when you start taking the one fact “It’s okay to add new things to the game” and people don’t like that new thing. Now you have a problem, partly in the fact you added something which was unpopular with some people and partly in the fact there’s players who are not happy with you now.

How do you solve it? Well if it was that simple, you just take it back out, say “oops” and go on with your work.

Now, the problem compounds when part of the players don’t want you to remove it. Who cares what the reason is, the crucial part is there are at least two groups in opposition over the simple “we added this”.

How do you solve this problem?

It gets better, though. Say now that when you added this you firmly thought “this will be cool” and your idea wasn’t received well. (This is also a gross understatement).

How do you solve it now?

Edit: Hint – You’re not going to make everyone happy in the last two options. It’s just not happening. We’re now back to square one – you have a problem

The best middle-ground response is to spread Ascended gear as far and wide as exotics were at the launch of the game. This removes the general feeling that you MUST run (explative-deleted)-hard fractals just to get meaningful rewards for your max-level toon, and will thus stop the bleeding and start the healing on the heavily-impacted “other parts” of the game.

You can even toss out new armor models for each Ascended set on the existing explorer mode dungeons.

Do I dislike the fact they’re introducing a vertical gear-grind? YES. BUT the much more pressing and important factor is that tying this Ascended gear to only one aspect of the game has bled the others dry. Further, pushing people who are after shinies into the most difficult aspect of the game has encouraged exclusionary behavior in an effort to seek “easier means” as well as outright elitist trolling.

Indeed, and it’s why I keep saying I think their biggest misstep was rushing this part out and letting the rest languish But even so, I think this big outcry will have tainted it all by the time it finally gets sent out into the world. (I’m wagering next week.)

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

plasmacutter.2709:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Rezzet.3614:

i dont see what the problem is the gear-threadmill is not a problem in this game because you are NOT being charged 20$ monthly and being forced to play and its not like the new gear triples in power compared to the current gear the diferences are minimal, but yeah what the hell is rong with new things in game over time if we are NOT being charged at all for them.

It’s not “wrong” . . . not in a fundamental way, taken on its own.

The problem comes in when you start taking the one fact “It’s okay to add new things to the game” and people don’t like that new thing. Now you have a problem, partly in the fact you added something which was unpopular with some people and partly in the fact there’s players who are not happy with you now.

How do you solve it? Well if it was that simple, you just take it back out, say “oops” and go on with your work.

Now, the problem compounds when part of the players don’t want you to remove it. Who cares what the reason is, the crucial part is there are at least two groups in opposition over the simple “we added this”.

How do you solve this problem?

It gets better, though. Say now that when you added this you firmly thought “this will be cool” and your idea wasn’t received well. (This is also a gross understatement).

How do you solve it now?

Edit: Hint – You’re not going to make everyone happy in the last two options. It’s just not happening. We’re now back to square one – you have a problem

The best middle-ground response is to spread Ascended gear as far and wide as exotics were at the launch of the game. This removes the general feeling that you MUST run (explative-deleted)-hard fractals just to get meaningful rewards for your max-level toon, and will thus stop the bleeding and start the healing on the heavily-impacted “other parts” of the game.

You can even toss out new armor models for each Ascended set on the existing explorer mode dungeons.

Do I dislike the fact they’re introducing a vertical gear-grind? YES. BUT the much more pressing and important factor is that tying this Ascended gear to only one aspect of the game has bled the others dry. Further, pushing people who are after shinies into the most difficult aspect of the game has encouraged exclusionary behavior in an effort to seek “easier means” as well as outright elitist trolling.

Indeed, and it’s why I keep saying I think their biggest misstep was rushing this part out and letting the rest languish But even so, I think this big outcry will have tainted it all by the time it finally gets sent out into the world. (I’m wagering next week.)

It’s already soured my view on the game, but I can endure IF they manage to lure people back out of fractals and into the existing content again.

I want to avoid fractals as agony is not based in skill, and learned from years in games like WoW and Rift that gear progression means absolutely zip and is a futile endeavor.

If I see the gear issue is denying me loot due to “dps competition” against event mobs, I may rethink this, but as of right now ANet still has a chance to salvage this.

I have been VERY vocal in my criticisms here, but have not gone as far as to broadcast to friends or anyone outside this forum to “stay away” just yet.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

IndigoSundown.5419:

ANet has said they are making Ascended and then Legendary. The escalation may end there, it may not. Time will tell, not me, and not you. So in the meantime, it’s too soon to say they are turning GW2 into a perpetual gear escalation game.

I hope it ends there . . . for the time being. If two years down the line we have the cap at 120 instead of 80, I’d hope that Ascended is used as the pinnacle for the 80-100 levels and a new tier in 100-120. -snipped for brevity’s sake -

I’d hope no one would complain about better than 80 gear if there is a level cap increase. Since GW1 never got one, I, and maybe other folks assumed GW2 won’t have one either. It sure would get problematic with regard to Legendary items. Do they keep raising the stats on the Legendary items to be above w/ever tier might be introduced? Or do they say, “Well, that was the old Legend, now we have version 2.0.” I’ll bet that latter would be rage-inducing, albeit for a smaller group. Whatever they decide, it would be best if they thought carefully about all the ramifications before pulling the trigger.

plasmacutter.2709:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

plasmacutter.2709:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Rezzet.3614:

i dont see what the problem is the gear-threadmill is not a problem in this game because you are NOT being charged 20$ monthly and being forced to play and its not like the new gear triples in power compared to the current gear the diferences are minimal, but yeah what the hell is rong with new things in game over time if we are NOT being charged at all for them.

It’s not “wrong” . . . not in a fundamental way, taken on its own.

The problem comes in when you start taking the one fact “It’s okay to add new things to the game” and people don’t like that new thing. Now you have a problem, partly in the fact you added something which was unpopular with some people and partly in the fact there’s players who are not happy with you now.

How do you solve it? Well if it was that simple, you just take it back out, say “oops” and go on with your work.

Now, the problem compounds when part of the players don’t want you to remove it. Who cares what the reason is, the crucial part is there are at least two groups in opposition over the simple “we added this”.

How do you solve this problem?

It gets better, though. Say now that when you added this you firmly thought “this will be cool” and your idea wasn’t received well. (This is also a gross understatement).

How do you solve it now?

Edit: Hint – You’re not going to make everyone happy in the last two options. It’s just not happening. We’re now back to square one – you have a problem

The best middle-ground response is to spread Ascended gear as far and wide as exotics were at the launch of the game. This removes the general feeling that you MUST run (explative-deleted)-hard fractals just to get meaningful rewards for your max-level toon, and will thus stop the bleeding and start the healing on the heavily-impacted “other parts” of the game.

You can even toss out new armor models for each Ascended set on the existing explorer mode dungeons.

Do I dislike the fact they’re introducing a vertical gear-grind? YES. BUT the much more pressing and important factor is that tying this Ascended gear to only one aspect of the game has bled the others dry. Further, pushing people who are after shinies into the most difficult aspect of the game has encouraged exclusionary behavior in an effort to seek “easier means” as well as outright elitist trolling.

Indeed, and it’s why I keep saying I think their biggest misstep was rushing this part out and letting the rest languish But even so, I think this big outcry will have tainted it all by the time it finally gets sent out into the world. (I’m wagering next week.)

It’s already soured my view on the game, but I can endure IF they manage to lure people back out of fractals and into the existing content again.

I want to avoid fractals as agony is not based in skill, and learned from years in games like WoW and Rift that gear progression means absolutely zip and is a futile endeavor.

If I see the gear issue is denying me loot due to “dps competition” against event mobs, I may rethink this, but as of right now ANet still has a chance to salvage this.

I have been VERY vocal in my criticisms here, but have not gone as far as to broadcast to friends or anyone outside this forum to “stay away” just yet.

Now I agree 100% with all you said! just want to add it will not deny you loot due to dps competition. Trust me been playing in rares and never had that issue in the least!

I at least, think it was a good idea to add the Ascended tier of equipment. It introduces an interesting mechanic with resistances that can be used in multiple parts of the game. I could very well see it being possible to use it in at least World vs. World as well; Critical Resistance, Fire Resistance, Chill Resistance, and so on forth. Not saying it’ll happen, but it could be something to consider. Sacrifice some customization (Runes/Sigils), for a different type of customizing (Infusions).

Don’t forget that you can’t actually slot the powerful Runes/Sigils into this new tier, you can slot Infusions only, which are mainly resistances against Agony (for now). For that reason, I’ll likely stick with Exotics when resistances aren’t required, as I have more customization that way (and Ascended items are barely better). I see it as giving us players a choice to make; do we want to sacrifice our stats customization for some resistance (when not required for a specific dungeon), get slightly better stats that we can’t really select ourselves, or do we want to have the ability to slot our Runes and Sigils, together with the decision of what combination of stats to have on the items?

Additionally, they have already stated that sometime in the (near) future it will be possible to obtain this new tier in a multitude of ways; so likely we will see crafted versions, world-dropped versions, and so on forth. It is currently available in relation to a dungeon, sure, but that doesn’t mean it’ll be that way forever. And what good is Agony resistance going to do you anywhere outside that specific dungeon at any rate? You may not be doing yourself a favor, if you go with Ascended outside of the dungeon.

Actually Rhydian who told you I avoid pvp? Or that I’m soley a raider assuming is often the highest form of ignorance. I do everything in this game made guides and videos of everything. In fact those vids are on the forum lol. And alot of people know and like them already. So you look kinda silly assuming something about someone you don’t know.

Just because you don’t agree with a subject. Why because I called people whining care bears? For one whining itself is care bear regardless of the subject people should man up. This isn’t going to change , again like I said because it’s not getting official bad press. And no one cares about care bear whining to be honest. This isn’t blizzard and it isn’t going to work. But hey learn the hard way only been watching this for 17 years. Only seen a few games out of like what 1000 that whining wins.

If you want a company to actually pay attention post vids and proof not a whole bunch of wah wah wah. It’s not like I’m not telling you anything you can’t google. You can argue and cry at me but you can’t mmorpg history. Unless you make a game yourself and try and force a trend. But carry on if you think this is really working.

wrong. this game has many of the old rpg devs from wow, yet it being new makes it buggier than anything. because anet is more concerned with cosmetics than actual smooth gameplay. same with last 2 ‘holiday’ type events, halloween and this lost isles thing. i never got to do the mad king dungeon cuz it was bugged the entire time, same with lost isles noll npc, so i gave up. i would be embarrassed to invite a friend to play this crap, telling them ‘this game is awesome’ or something….not happening. the 80 area is continuously bugged, ALWAYS. they may fix it, for a day. then it goes back to usual, then doesnt get fixed for a week if we’re lucky. my server has had the same 3 teams in wvw to fight for 3 weeks now…..thought there was gonna be some variety in this garbage. a new corner to fight out of, yay. and i heard somewhere that josh/jon peters something was giving us ‘substantial’ updates to rangers….just to find out it buffed one underwater shot. as if anyone even likes or cares about anything underwater. come on man, stop keeping rangers the laughing stock of dps, and knock off these 1 and 2 shot kills against us from these other toons, thats where the BALANCE comes in. my build is prime and i have all exotics…that doesnt stop thiefs from staying completely invisible and ganking me 2 shot when i never see what hit me…. this is crap man.

on the flip side, ive been on mop since release. was sposed to be a ‘thrall attacks theramore’ event before release, i dont see anything dif w theramore. mop seems ok til kun lai, then the bugs start in from the rts devs wow has instead of experienced rpg ones they fired that moved to anet. after kun lai mop is buggier than all get out. im having same probs as bad as gw2, minus the bots. only dif is, i said i wasnt going back to wow; reasons i did, i dont get one or two shot in pvp, balance is restored there w/ my main, and devs dont tell us they are going to do things there that they end up not doing i.e. ‘substantial updates’ with rangers in gw2. and i missed my bear Kee, he’s been my buddy for 2 1/2yrs.

seriously man, bump up this health for everyone and make things a fight. my class isnt the only one tired of unbalance here.

ANet’s biggest problem right now is communication. If there is any one person in charge of PR, that person needs to re-examine the communication strategy as soon as possible. And if that person is incapable of such a task, then it is time to find a more qualified person for that role.

Some issues:

1)ANet gives many of their developers the freedom to communicate directly with players. And that’s awesome. But not every developer or designer has a strong set of communication skills. Sometimes things don’t always come across as intended. So, when something is being posted on the official blog, is it too much to ask that it is proofread by someone with PR experience?

2) Anytime you refer to one subgroup of players as your “dedicated” players, you’ve just pissed off everyone else. The remainder of your message is now tainted. Please refrain from using this term as you clearly do not its meaning.

You used this term when you posted about reserving player names from GW1. Aside from either a) lying to players about being able to reserve names by purchasing EotN or b) misleading players by not correcting them when the generally excepted belief of how the process would work was incorrect, you take what was indisputably a message announcing a restriction to the process that had not previously been announced, and coupled it with an insult to some portion of your playerbase. Did you not expect the complaints that followed or did you just not care?

In the blog post, your definition of “dedicated” players included people who maybe heard about GW2 from a friend or saw it at a convention, spent $20 to buy GW1 to check out GW and then decided to pre-order. It did not however, include people that had played GW1 for years, followed along with every bit of information they could get for 5 years on the development of GW2, but for whatever reason, would not be able to play during the first 24 hours of launch. Spend $2k on a new system just to be able to play this game, but it would not be delivered in time? Not “dedicated”. In the hospital delivering a baby? Sorry, you’re not “dedicated”. Active military duty? Family emergency? Death in the family? Receiving chemo treatments? NOT “DEDICATED”!

In regard to gear progression to reward “dedicated” players: wouldn’t your “dedicated” players be the ones that actually watched your manifesto? Wouldn’t they be the ones who are grinding away knowing that any rewards are purely cosmetic? How is adding a new type or tier of gear rewarding that player? It’s not. It’s rewarding those that have ignored everything you have said for 5 years and are expecting GW2 to be like every other MMO they have played.

Please remove “dedicated” from your vocabulary.

3) I refuse to believe that ANet is too stupid or too ignorant to realize that the introduction of ascended items would not go over well with at least a portion of their playerbase. Setting aside the issue of whether this is a good change or bad change, there was going to be a segment of the GW2 population that would view this as bad news. Accepting the idea that ANet would know this prior to the change, why wouldn’t they do some damage mitigation PRIOR to the change. Saying " Hey everyone, check out these awesome changes!" and then posting an attempt at clarification AFTER the announcement, is terrible PR. If they had simply done the clarification in the announcement, and acknowledged those people who would have concerns initially, there would be more “wait and see” and less “flame”.

3) b) It’s probably best if your announced attempts at clarification were actually attempts at clarification and not efforts at spin control. If the same questions are being asked after the clarification post, then nothing has been clarified. And any further delay in clarification is both magnified and seen as support for those in the “bad change” camp.

4) Is ANet aware that they have an official website? It has a “NEWS” section and everything. I love receiving info on twitter, because it comes to me on my phone instead of me having to go out to the website to get the info. That being said, Twitter, Facebook, Reddit and other non-official sites should only be used as a supplement to the offical website and not replacement of the official website. I should not have to join facebook or reddit or twitter in order to receive any message from ANet. (Sidenote: I don’t see why you cannot use your own website for Q&As, but when you guys do Q&As on Reddit, it would be nice to see those questions and answers posted on your official website at some point.)

5) It’s okay to make changes. Those of us that have been with you since GW2 was first announced have seen this game change in a multitude of ways over the years. Not everyone is going to agree with every change you make. But when you do decide to make a change, there are two things you should NEVER do:

a) insult your players

b) point to that writing in wet paint on the wall in the barn and tell us it’s always been there.

Acknowledge that you are making a change and give us the actual reasoning behind the change. I think you’ll find people a lot more accepting of the change, and they won’t feel as betrayed as many players feel right now.

Seriously, everyone needs to go do something else. This is getting really old, really fast. You keep complaining about “Gear-Treadmill”, but, what if Anet makes alternate methods to acquire “ascended” gear?. What if they make it so you can get an “ascended” weapon by putting 4 exotic weapons of the same type into the forge. Considering all the stats are built in, the chances of getting what you want are pretty low. So what do you do with it?. You put it on the TP. Since it’s “game-wide”, there will be a flood of “ascended” gear up for grabs, and the more there are, the cheaper they will BE. How hard did you have to “Grind” to buy the gear off the TP. If you’re like me, and have a lot of gold just sitting in the bank, then, not very hard. And, what if they add MORE ways. What if the add a way to get them through “crafting”?, or drops from “World Boss” chests??. The point is, we (which includes YOU) have NO IDEA what their plans are. So, if you gotta cry, then cry up a storm. Just don’t expect anyone to really care.

Pustulio.8207:

Seriously, everyone needs to go do something else. This is getting really old, really fast. You keep complaining about “Gear-Treadmill”, but, what if Anet makes alternate methods to acquire “ascended” gear?. What if they make it so you can get an “ascended” weapon by putting 4 exotic weapons of the same type into the forge. Considering all the stats are built in, the chances of getting what you want are pretty low. So what do you do with it?. You put it on the TP. Since it’s “game-wide”, there will be a flood of “ascended” gear up for grabs, and the more there are, the cheaper they will BE. How hard did you have to “Grind” to buy the gear off the TP. If you’re like me, and have a lot of gold just sitting in the bank, then, not very hard. And, what if they add MORE ways. What if the add a way to get them through “crafting”?, or drops from “World Boss” chests??. The point is, we (which includes YOU) have NO IDEA what their plans are. So, if you gotta cry, then cry up a storm. Just don’t expect anyone to really care.

why haven’t they made alternative paths available by now>

Ascended gear isn’t better than the already in place legendaries. The legendaries were bumped to be in line with them. What is ironic is ascended gear is meant to be a prepping for legendary items. So what people are really complaining is gear added thats not even end all lol…..Because they didn’t bother to read the whole thing. It’s end all right now because legendary armor hasn’t been put in. So when that is put in you gonna complain that too? All of it is hard to get fractals take atleast a little dungeon skill to do.

Ascended gear is just a gate for one instance you DON’T even have to do. You can skip ascended gear altogether and be fine. In the future they plan to add legendary armor which would really make ascended gear skippable. The difference in good play can actually even override someone having a few dps on you. Dps in this game isn’t even a factor no fights are stand still fights its all action. It mainly comes down to who got there first not who killed faster.

So again this is a case of one whiner not knowing wtf he is talking about. And spawning a whole bunch of babies who even more don’t know. All they did was add horizontal progression really. And fix a stat issue that didn’t make sense from the start probably because it wasnt finished. Which was how strong legendaries weren’t considering the monumental task it is to get one

To those that say this is not a treadmill:

1) If I have ascended gear, and then when new content is released, I have to get new infusion upgrades because my old upgrades are obsolete on the new content. And then when the next content is released and now i need another set of infusion upgrades. Isn’t that a treadmill? Sure, it is isolated to just the ascended and legendary items. But it is still a treadmill.

2) Yes, the infusion only affects the fractals right now. But the introduction of vertical progression in any form will cause a segregation of the playerbase. Not all vertical progression is necessarily bad. But you are already seeing the effects on pugs for the fractals. The Fractals are appropriately named.

3) Is this type of treadmill acceptable to you because the item acquisition is not based on skill or time spent playing or money spent playing, but is instead a lottery?

4) Can RNG items even be considered progression since they are not tied to any true player progression but are instead based on luck?

5) How exactly is ANet rewarding “dedicated” players if they use RNG? Aren’t they instead, rewarding players that just do the same thing over and over again expecting different results? Some famous person at some point in the past used a different term than “dedicated” to describe those types of players…

Ah, the tears of angry gamers. Now excuse me while I play this violin as Lion’s Arch burns in the background.

Folks, honestly, worrying too much over all this isn’t going to do anyone any good. It isn’t as if this is going to affect our real life jobs (if you’re lucky enough to have one). So sit back, shut up, and relax.

Columba.9730:

why haven’t they made alternative paths available by now>

It was supposed to be rolled out in stages, so I’d wager they’re bundling it into the next patch. Definitely before the end of the year 2025, if I had to put money down on it.

If I wasn’t putting money on it, I’d say between next week and the end of the month, as there’s this whole holiday thing they had this weekend.

Columba.9730:

Pustulio.8207:

Seriously, everyone needs to go do something else. This is getting really old, really fast. You keep complaining about “Gear-Treadmill”, but, what if Anet makes alternate methods to acquire “ascended” gear?. What if they make it so you can get an “ascended” weapon by putting 4 exotic weapons of the same type into the forge. Considering all the stats are built in, the chances of getting what you want are pretty low. So what do you do with it?. You put it on the TP. Since it’s “game-wide”, there will be a flood of “ascended” gear up for grabs, and the more there are, the cheaper they will BE. How hard did you have to “Grind” to buy the gear off the TP. If you’re like me, and have a lot of gold just sitting in the bank, then, not very hard. And, what if they add MORE ways. What if the add a way to get them through “crafting”?, or drops from “World Boss” chests??. The point is, we (which includes YOU) have NO IDEA what their plans are. So, if you gotta cry, then cry up a storm. Just don’t expect anyone to really care.

why haven’t they made alternative paths available by now>

How does the availability of accessing the treadmill in different ways, not make it a treadmill? Yes, a major point is that we have no idea what their plans are. That’s a problem. Players are concerned about the direction of this game. There is nothing wrong with those players voicing those concerns and asking for clarification.

A lack of maturity and respect toward fellow players does not make one’s opinion any more valid.

@Orion
1.Who cares what were you doing until now standing in LA? This section was filled with im bored omg no end game its doomsday I was fooled posts.

2. Read my last post it’s not vertical they corrected a issue that was there since launch. You can google legendaries not as strong as they should be. And in the patch notes they literally say that. It’s funny most of you guys stop paying attention after you read loot added.

3. Items not based on skill really? Check my fractals videos in the dungeon section tell me where that is faceroll. And that i didn’t actually haved to do something. Your opinion or dislike of something doesn’t make it fact. It does take some form of skill to do fractals and not die.

4. RNG items are the same as getting items in raids if you get it all the time. That lowers rarity and makes things less special.

5. Your thinking too hard they have to do that like I said in 4. I mean come on you gotta atleast earn something. It sounds like you are more mad you actually have to do something. This is supposed to be strong stuff you shouldn’t just get it because you log in. This is the mentality that led to the debacle that is WOW right now. No one wants to work for anything anymore they want welfare gear. Bet if they did that you guys flip all types of fits so cut it out with the laziness.

And read everything the developers are saying. Do not selectively care about what you want for your agenda.

Orion.9861:

Columba.9730:

Pustulio.8207:

Seriously, everyone needs to go do something else. This is getting really old, really fast. You keep complaining about “Gear-Treadmill”, but, what if Anet makes alternate methods to acquire “ascended” gear?. What if they make it so you can get an “ascended” weapon by putting 4 exotic weapons of the same type into the forge. Considering all the stats are built in, the chances of getting what you want are pretty low. So what do you do with it?. You put it on the TP. Since it’s “game-wide”, there will be a flood of “ascended” gear up for grabs, and the more there are, the cheaper they will BE. How hard did you have to “Grind” to buy the gear off the TP. If you’re like me, and have a lot of gold just sitting in the bank, then, not very hard. And, what if they add MORE ways. What if the add a way to get them through “crafting”?, or drops from “World Boss” chests??. The point is, we (which includes YOU) have NO IDEA what their plans are. So, if you gotta cry, then cry up a storm. Just don’t expect anyone to really care.

why haven’t they made alternative paths available by now>

How does the availability of accessing the treadmill in different ways, not make it a treadmill? Yes, a major point is that we have no idea what their plans are. That’s a problem. Players are concerned about the direction of this game. There is nothing wrong with those players voicing those concerns and asking for clarification.

A lack of maturity and respect toward fellow players does not make one’s opinion any more valid.

Hi there. I’ll be polite and respectful if you please.

How does accessing a gear treadmill in different ways not make it a gear treadmill? If you hop on at the end. I can’t begin to say what plans they have (I don’t work there) but I’d wager Token/Badges exchange of some sort. If they were going to be more creative, a guaranteed drop the first time out of certain DE chests like ones for the Cathedrals, Claw of Jormag, you get the drift.

Again, yet again, if they’d rolled this out all at once instead of in pieces, I doubt this would be half as painful to watch.

Pustulio.8207:

Columba.9730:

Pustulio.8207:

Seriously, everyone needs to go do something else. This is getting really old, really fast. You keep complaining about “Gear-Treadmill”, but, what if Anet makes alternate methods to acquire “ascended” gear?. What if they make it so you can get an “ascended” weapon by putting 4 exotic weapons of the same type into the forge. Considering all the stats are built in, the chances of getting what you want are pretty low. So what do you do with it?. You put it on the TP. Since it’s “game-wide”, there will be a flood of “ascended” gear up for grabs, and the more there are, the cheaper they will BE. How hard did you have to “Grind” to buy the gear off the TP. If you’re like me, and have a lot of gold just sitting in the bank, then, not very hard. And, what if they add MORE ways. What if the add a way to get them through “crafting”?, or drops from “World Boss” chests??. The point is, we (which includes YOU) have NO IDEA what their plans are. So, if you gotta cry, then cry up a storm. Just don’t expect anyone to really care.

why haven’t they made alternative paths available by now>

You seem to have missed the point, so, I’ll say it again (this time in caps.). WE (THAT INCLUDES YOU) HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEIR PLANS ARE. We don’t know KITTEN. For all we know, they could be planning something. But, like I SAID, if you HAVE to CRY, then do so. That’s your right as a player, after all. Just don’t forget: “We know NOTHING”

so if their credo is that multiple paths will be available, why again aren’t these items available via multiple paths? Pray tell.

Man if they cry now wait until Legendary Armor comes out as planned. They gonna cry on that too like it wasn’t already said 1000 times by now. This is really a case of people raging and not reading all the notes. That’s why i keep saying its like one person said OMG new gear (he didnt read)makes a post. And the rest who never even did the dungeon and (didn’t read the notes right either) following him.

Silentstorm.7531:

@Orion
1.Who cares what were you doing until now standing in LA? This section was filled with im bored omg no end game its doomsday I was fooled posts.

2. Read my last post it’s not vertical they corrected a issue that was there since launch. You can google legendaries not as strong as they should be. And in the patch notes they literally say that. It’s funny most of you guys stop paying attention after you read loot added.

3. Items not based on skill really? Check my fractals videos in the dungeon section tell me where that is faceroll. And that i didn’t actually haved to do something. Your opinion or dislike of something doesn’t make it fact. It does take some form of skill to do fractals and not die.

4. RNG items are the same as getting items in raids if you get it all the time. That lowers rarity and makes things less special.

5. Your thinking too hard they have to do that like I said in 4. I mean come on you gotta atleast earn something. It sounds like you are more mad you actually have to do something. This is supposed to be strong stuff you shouldn’t just get it because you log in. This is the mentality that led to the debacle that is WOW right now. No one wants to work for anything anymore they want welfare gear. Bet if they did that you guys flip all types of fits so cut it out with the laziness.

And read everything the developers are saying. Do not selectively care about what you want for your agenda.

1) ANet said there would be no endgame. Where were you the last 5 years that you would now expect endgame?

2)In your opinion, there was an issue there since launch. And patch notes don’t say legendaries are not as strong as they should be. They say exotics were easier to obtain than ANet realized. Those are two completely different things. If you didn’t comprehend that, then perhaps you should read more carefully next time.

3) When did I say fractals are easy? Oh, that’s right, I didn’t. Seriously, slow down when you’re reading, and don’t be so quick to make assumptions about other people’s arguments.

4) RNG is RNG

5) If it is RNG, how is it earning?

“It sounds like you are more mad you actually have to do something.” – Are you sure you are reading MY posts? Again, slow down.

“This is supposed to be strong stuff…” – So you are agreeing that it is gear progression

“This is the mentality that led to the debacle that is WOW right now. No one wants to work for anything anymore they want welfare gear. Bet if they did that you guys flip all types of fits so cut it out with the laziness.” – My mentality that ANet should do a better job of communicating? or my mentality that I would honestly like someone to explain how a gear treadmill is not a gear treadmill?

Not once have I offered my opinion as to whether this is a bad change. I’ve simply stated facts and asked for clarification.

He is going to clarify monday. But I can’t see how much clearer you need to be when you say. “Ascended gear is meant to be in between exotic and Legendary” It’s like all of you just ignored that statement entirely. Also legendary’s stats were not where they supposed to be so even before this we knew it was getting bumped. So again i’m saying your mad they are fixing a error?

Do they literally haved to hold your hand for you to understand? This isn’t first grade my man it’s reading comprehension. As far as endgame I’ll
correct you again they said the whole game is endgame not they’re is none again reading comprehension. And again reading what you want to see not what was printed.

So if they add a level in between exotic and legendary who cares. I think your done here pretty much dismissed. Unless you want to argue uselessly that the Christmas event is Illuminati funded or something else you didn’t read properly. The more you go the more you prove my point people are not paying attention. And just raging without proper knowledge of what they are even raging about or just plain trolling.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Hi there. I’ll be polite and respectful if you please.

How does accessing a gear treadmill in different ways not make it a gear treadmill? If you hop on at the end. I can’t begin to say what plans they have (I don’t work there) but I’d wager Token/Badges exchange of some sort. If they were going to be more creative, a guaranteed drop the first time out of certain DE chests like ones for the Cathedrals, Claw of Jormag, you get the drift.

Again, yet again, if they’d rolled this out all at once instead of in pieces, I doubt this would be half as painful to watch.[/quote]

I agree, that all at once would have been better. And that it would probably have cut down on complaining. But what I’ve read here is essentially one group of players complaining (not always eloquently) that this is ANet introducing a gear treadmill and it’s the end of the world. I then see another group that jumps in and says the first group is stupid, there is no treadmill, and that these changes are both awesome and needed.

I’m not in either of those groups. There is very obviously a treadmill here, at least based on what little official communication we have from ANet. It’s not necessarily a bad thing, and I’m not necessarily opposed to it. But if your leading counterpoint is that there is no treadmill, then I question your ability to deduce info correctly and I don’t respect the remainder of your argument.

My biggest issue is ANet’s communication or lack thereof. They know what they are planning. They’ve known how this infusion thing would work long before this patch. Not informing the players more than they have is really negligence on their part at best. All of this fighting amongst the players is a result of that negligence.

Orion.9861:

I agree, that all at once would have been better. And that it would probably have cut down on complaining. But what I’ve read here is essentially one group of players complaining (not always eloquently) that this is ANet introducing a gear treadmill and it’s the end of the world. I then see another group that jumps in and says the first group is stupid, there is no treadmill, and that these changes are both awesome and needed.

I’m not in either of those groups. There is very obviously a treadmill here, at least based on what little official communication we have from ANet. It’s not necessarily a bad thing, and I’m not necessarily opposed to it. But if your leading counterpoint is that there is no treadmill, then I question your ability to deduce info correctly and I don’t respect the remainder of your argument.

My biggest issue is ANet’s communication or lack thereof. They know what they are planning. They’ve known how this infusion thing would work long before this patch. Not informing the players more than they have is really negligence on their part at best. All of this fighting amongst the players is a result of that negligence.

That’s not my leading counterpoint, although we haven’t hit “gear treadmill” just yet. As people have said, this could be the start of one or it could be a false start. I remain cautiously optimisic. (Fatalistic is a world view I hate, because it leads to me being an unpleasant person to everyone around me. But this isn’t about me, so let’s move on.) In short . . . I’m not sure if this is a treadmill yet. I need more than vagueness from a specifically worded sentence (“we might introduce more tiers later”). Doesn’t mean they will, doesn’t mean they won’t, only that it’s possible.

I will agree that the communication isn’t / wasn’t all that good but the only thing I have to say is: given the reactions of the few who are really angry and passionate about their views, can you blame them for getting quiet? The upcoming AMA is going to be interesting, primarily because I want to see if it goes badly and if so . . . how many people are going to start calling for a blood feud. (Figuratively, of course.)

I agree this wasn’t well handled. Any of this. The event was founded on an interesting premise but technical issues made it “a qualified success” instead of a good kind of success. The staggered introduction of Ascended gear has left a lot to speculation of what the rest of it will look like, and if there will be alternate earning methods than Fractals of the Mists, and just in general “what the heck is going on?”

Silentstorm.7531:

He is going to clarify monday. But I can’t see how much clearer you need to be when you say. “Ascended gear is meant to be in between exotic and Legendary” It’s like all of you just ignored that statement entirely. Also legendary’s stats were not where they supposed to be so even before this we knew it was getting bumped. So again i’m saying your mad they are fixing a error?

Do they literally haved to hold your hand for you to understand? This isn’t first grade my man it’s reading comprehension. As far as endgame I’ll
correct you again they said the whole game is endgame not they’re is none again reading comprehension. And again reading what you want to see not what was printed.

So if they add a level in between exotic and legendary who cares. I think your done here pretty much dismissed. Unless you want to argue uselessly that the Christmas event is Illuminati funded or something else you didn’t read properly. The more you go the more you prove my point people are not paying attention. And just raging without proper knowledge of what they are even raging about or just plain trolling.

Where exactly is my raging? You are the one lashing out, not me.

And by definition, if people are asking the same questions after your “clarification,” then you have not clarified anything, and thus you were not clear enough.

If the whole game is endgame, then there is no “end” game. Since by definition, the end would come at the… end.

“Ascended gear is meant…” Yes, IS meant. Not WAS meant. these are two distinctly different things.

They worked on this game for 5 years. Legendary stats were exactly where they intended them to be. Making a change now, is not fixing an error, it’s making a change.

“if they add a level in between exotic and legendary”

adding? I thought you just said they were fixing an error…

“And just raging without proper knowledge of what they are even raging about”

You mean like insulting people without having actually read their posts? I have to assume you just haven’t read my posts at this point, since despite your declarations of a superior aptitude for reading comprehension, you keep attributing arguments to me that i haven’t made.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Onshidesigns.1069:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Onshidesigns.1069:

You want gated content

Well of course I do, those asura gates need to go somewhere, why not more content?

You know what I mean. You want content available to only hardcore grinders with no life.

I do, specifically, or “you” as in everyone who is not you?

Then I ask myself, why you bought this game in the first place, as it was advertised, tested in several magazines and on webepages with having exactly not this gated content like other mmorpgs do?

I mean why buy a “jump and run” game when you want a “shooter”?

Tobias Trueflight.8350

That’s not my leading counterpoint, although we haven’t hit “gear treadmill” just yet. As people have said, this could be the start of one or it could be a false start. I remain cautiously optimisic. (Fatalistic is a world view I hate, because it leads to me being an unpleasant person to everyone around me. But this isn’t about me, so let’s move on.) In short . . . I’m not sure if this is a treadmill yet. I need more than vagueness from a specifically worded sentence (“we might introduce more tiers later”). Doesn’t mean they will, doesn’t mean they won’t, only that it’s possible.

I will agree that the communication isn’t / wasn’t all that good but the only thing I have to say is: given the reactions of the few who are really angry and passionate about their views, can you blame them for getting quiet? The upcoming AMA is going to be interesting, primarily because I want to see if it goes badly and if so . . . how many people are going to start calling for a blood feud. (Figuratively, of course.)

I agree this wasn’t well handled. Any of this. The event was founded on an interesting premise but technical issues made it “a qualified success” instead of a good kind of success. The staggered introduction of Ascended gear has left a lot to speculation of what the rest of it will look like, and if there will be alternate earning methods than Fractals of the Mists, and just in general “what the heck is going on?”

I do not mean gear treadmill in the traditional sense. It appears to be isolated to the fractals at this time, at least according to ANet. But it appears clear that you will need new types of infusions in the future. requiring new infusions in the future in order to be successful in that future content, is a treadmill.

Again, I’m not saying this is a bad thing, and I do await more info from ANet.

The best analogy I can come up with is this:

I’m staring at what appears to be an apple sitting on a table. One person tells me this is a poisonous apple and we are all going to die. Another person looks at it and says the first guys is stupid, this isn’t an apple. Either way, until I’m able to read a little more info on the label, I’m not biting. And I just wish the label said something more than “we’re excited about you eating our fruit”

No i’m pointing out very successfully that you in this case didn’t comprehend the patch. And even in the rebuttal still don’t get it. So your either just that dense or trolling. I’m gonna go with troll because you don’t conversate like some dense. So pointing out things like you saying they’re be no endgame. When they really said the whole game is end game is insulting? Like i said your dismissed troll.

Onshidesigns.1069:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Onshidesigns.1069:

You want gated content

Well of course I do, those asura gates need to go somewhere, why not more content?

You know what I mean. You want content available to only hardcore grinders with no life.

In the interest of fairness, generalising isn’t helping that side of the argument either

They should close all these threads because I already exposed most of it as people just not reading correctly. And then being drama queens off their own misinformation.

Dozer.1596:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Onshidesigns.1069:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Onshidesigns.1069:

You want gated content

Well of course I do, those asura gates need to go somewhere, why not more content?

You know what I mean. You want content available to only hardcore grinders with no life.

I do, specifically, or “you” as in everyone who is not you?

Then I ask myself, why you bought this game in the first place, as it was advertised, tested in several magazines and on webepages with having exactly not this gated content like other mmorpgs do?

I mean why buy a “jump and run” game when you want a “shooter”?

. . . you misunderstood my question. And it was a question, not a statement. I was wondering if he meant ME specifically. Because gated content isn’t what I want . . . but it’s sometimes kind of a benefit to require a certain storyline item or such to progress. Especially if a zone can only hold so many people before it begins hitting problems (or Overflow after Overflow, after Overflow . . .)

There are reasons why gated content existed in a game, and it wasn’t entirely “just to be exclusive”. Maybe the zone can only handle 150 people in it before it goes nuts and stuff starts bugging up. Maybe it’s meant to reward people who found the parts of a scavenger hunt, so now they get to look at it. Maybe it’s not connected to the rest of the landscape by an entrance and thus you need to use something to reach it, hence “gated” in that you have to use the gate to reach it.

(That last one I am in favor of, it can be very fun and allows you to avoid needing to fill landscape between points with pointless areas. )

By the way, Dozer? Read more carefully next time please

Orion.9861:

I’m staring at what appears to be an apple sitting on a table. One person tells me this is a poisonous apple and we are all going to die. Another person looks at it and says the first guys is stupid, this isn’t an apple. Either way, until I’m able to read a little more info on the label, I’m not biting. And I just wish the label said something more than “we’re excited about you eating our fruit”

A good enough analogy.

I don’t mind that Agony and Infusions are pretty much tied to the Fractals. To me it’s like the Challenge Missions in GW1 – you can do them until you can’t proceed anymore. There’s loot, drops, and fun stuff in there but you don’t need to do it. (Presumably, if Ascended becomes available outside Fractals, you might not need to visit it at all to get it and thus . . . )

And what would make me comfortable was if the increased level of Infusions was simply bumping the Agony Resistance up rather than the other bonuses

Quite apart from the fact they did something they said they wouldn’t do (youtube GW2 manifesto) they’ve done it in such a way that they’ve introduced exclusion and elitism the 2 ugliest faces of any MMO.

There is a market for that different kind of MMO they promised. The best revenue return would likely come from sticking to that and doing it well. The other revenue maker in any game is a loyal customer base and love it or hate it WoW has that, GW1 had that – and GW2 is losing it and doesn’t seem to care enough to communicate beyond fluffy PR statements.

Onshidesigns.1069:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Onshidesigns.1069:

You want gated content

Well of course I do, those asura gates need to go somewhere, why not more content?

You know what I mean. You want content available to only hardcore grinders with no life.

I’d rather content that requires some work to obtain and isn’t handed to lazy players on a silver platter, yes.

I have a job, alternate hobbies and family responsibilities, and I still enjoy grind in my games and manage to find time to put effort into farming for things. What’s your excuse?

Ruby Red.4019:

Quite apart from the fact they did something they said they wouldn’t do (youtube GW2 manifesto) they’ve done it in such a way that they’ve introduced exclusion and elitism the 2 ugliest faces of any MMO.

There is a market for that different kind of MMO they promised. The best revenue return would likely come from sticking to that and doing it well. The other revenue maker in any game is a loyal customer base and love it or hate it WoW has that, GW1 had that – and GW2 is losing it and doesn’t seem to care enough to communicate beyond fluffy PR statements.

I’m reading the manifesto . . . I’m not sure which part you are talking about, Ruby Red, but you know I’m betting it’s this one.

So much of traditional MMO combat is rote and repetitive. You execute the same strategy over and over again, just augmented over time with better and better gear. After a while it starts to feel like you’re playing a spreadsheet. Combat needs to be about making creative choices, and it needs to feel immediate, active, and visceral So we’ve put a huge focus on strengthening our combat, giving the player limitless choices, and providing the thrill and joy of being in combat.

Am I about right? I suppose you’re right, there’s not really limitless choices involved in combat. I still haven’t been able to bait and provoke a monster into a pit trap so I can smash on its head. Or get on the Shatterer’s back and hack away until it shakes me off, maybe even killing it that way.

I feel so cheated.

Oh, you probably meant this oft quoted sentence:

It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.

. . . are you paying a monthly fee? I don’t think I am, hang on and let me check.

. . . nope. And you know what, it really doesn’t suck my life away. Right now that’s Minecraft and a server I have to moderate once we can figure out what the heck happened to the physical box while the owner was on vacation. I’m not forced to spend hours preparing to have fun (pretty sure that was a shot at organizing raids and making sure everyone wasn’t AFK when it started). I want to do something, I do just go out and see if I can feasibly do it. If not, I’ll see if people show up to help out. And if not again, fine, skip it and go to the next thing I’d like to do.

How come that these two people discuss how GW2 will compete on the MMORPG market under the expression that it will be horizontal, with no grind for gear higher stats at max lvl? The video is one year old, ANet advertised it like that not only in the manifesto but for all the years it was in development!

And the change with the patch throws all this over board.

Veltoss.9135:

My god people.. they added one tier of gear as a one-time gameplay improvement, why the kitten is everyone acting like this is the apocolypse?

Thank You, Sir. Above you’ll notice the voice of reason.

Oh and Grandpa always thinks it’ll rain when his lumbago acts up. I still watch the Weather Channel though and I don’t put on a rain coat until, ya know – I SEE rain.

Also, I haven’t logged into WoW in a couple years now at least but I did play from launch and have bought and played (to some extent) every expansion except MoP. People who can raid in that game are not able to do so because of any “great skill” by any stretch. Likewise if you could join the Yankees because you spend 14 hours a day playing baseball then we’re going to have more professional ball players in the MLB then people in the stands real soon. Heck I’ll gladly ride the bench for the league minimum wage if all I have to do is play baseball all day, a lot, I mean like ‘so much it isn’t healthy’ a lot.

When I had nothing more than a kitteny job, a few classes a girlfriend and a dozen or so friends all in the same life situation with me we played WoW WAY more than anyone could consider healthy. We had all the best gear and went through every raid dungeon as fast as weekly lockouts would allow. ‘Death and Taxes" we weren’t but there was no WoW content we didn’t get to see, conquer, and wring every last speck of loot from that we could – twice, at least! Then we got real jobs, married, had kids, mortgages, cars not bought off the side of the road for cash, etc. We don’t raid or even play WoW anymore.

… however we’re all pretty well kitted out in exotics now in GW2, some with several sets for several builds, on several characters, and I can’t remember the last time even 10 of us were in the same spot in the same game doing the same thing in a game either.

Oh, and while many of us have done several tiers through the Fractals, I and plenty others haven’t set the first foot in it yet nor do we feel there is any possibility of us ‘falling behind’ for lack of a couple rings and a backpack. The wise money is betting that Ascended may end up about as hard to get a hold of as Exotics today. Legendaries are a real kitten to get right? Psst – they’re getting stepped up to the stats of Ascended in time, from the point they are now… the stats of the Exotics which ANYONE CAN GET! I leave everyone with that last fact to draw correlations from

(HINT: Ascended will end up as easy to get as Exotics! Er, uh… oops! Well yeah, don’t think it takes Stephen Hawking to draw that similarity and obvious conclusion)

P.S You’re Welcome!