Guild Wars 2

why force us to do dungeons in order to be on par with everybody in wvw? so rediculous.

It starts with 2 stats, over time those small increments become a huge difference. Can’t believe they caved to the gear treadmill whiners (who will cry about lack of progression within a week again).

You should rename your game to WoW 2.0.

fixit.7189:

Svenn.5209:

2 stats is “far better”? lol.

2 stats PLUS infusion > exotics.

Major difference, dude.

“The only way to mitigate Agony damage is by building up resistance through Infusions, a new type of upgrade component that can be acquired in the Mystic Forge.”

Except infusions don’t add stats. They add dungeon specific resistance to one mechanic.

Not casual, over 900 hours played. Now I have to grind this kitten dungeon just so I can Wv3 at top level again. Also might add I will have to do it repeatedly for every set I have put together for other builds.

What irks me the most is that they have gone back on their Manifesto and pretty much thrown it out the window. This makes people who believed in that manifesto upset and betrayed.

“The only way to mitigate Agony damage is by building up resistance through Infusions, a new type of upgrade component that can be acquired in the Mystic Forge.”

If that’s the only purpose for Infusion, I’m curious how Offensive one should work… ;P

Rainshine.5493:

cesmode.4257:

Jaxichael.2590:

NOTE: They used the same mechanic in the original game. It allows players to have additional customization with the mechanics that they’ll throw at us in endgame. The whole world is still yours to play and the stats of the new armor type are not going to give you the edge that will allow you to sweep the maps any faster…

Granted, I wish they would have had this system out at launch, but it’s where they need to take the game. The game cannot just sit in one place and expect to grow.

And how are they betraying you? Did they close off the rest of the content they built and say that this new dungeon is all you can do? If you were happy with what you were doing before, this new addition isn’t going to change anything for you. Just keep trucking…

In the previous game, were players stacking infusion only gear? Or did they equip only a few pieces of infusion gear, mixed with their regular exotics? I.E. Will people be running this dungeon in full infusion gear if they are able to obtain it, vs a mix of infusion and exotic?

It’s not anything like the original game. In GW1, infusion made you take less damage from a particular mob that showed up later in the story. It did absolutely nothing else. Runes there functioned like runes here, except without set bonuses.

Did you not read what infusion will do in this game? Infusion will allow you to mitigate some damage from Agony a mechanic a particular mob will deal to you. :P

The stats on the gear I can really live with. How much damage does 1 extra point of power at level 80 really get you? How about 5? People I think just see higher numbers and jump to ultimate conclusions as to how much of a difference of an effect it really does to your characters overall performance.

What I can’t get my head wrapped around is the gated content approach here. This wasn’t something I thought ArenaNet would go for. Agony is a gating mechanic. Plain and simple. Gate content in any game leads to elitism. I’ve seen it in a lot of mmos. Though there is no way to inspect someone in this game for gear if any of these items have unique models then you can guess what will happen. Then there is also the question of how does one get said gear? It really doesn’t reward skill, but grind instead. Grind dungeon A before getting enough for dungeon B and so forth. This is the WOW approach and they can get away with it as a subscription based game. It keeps the player interested thus bringing in more income for the company as they are playing longer. This is a Pay once and play Free game. There is no need to keep the player for long periods. They aren’t paying a subscription.

For now, I’m going to have to agree with the apparent majority. Vertical progression via gear is not the way to go. Now, I’m not going to quit over this, it’s still a great game. However, I think you will end up losing some of your more loyal customers and replacing them with those that are always running to the next shiny. And trust me, that next shiny is never too far away.

I wonder if Arenanet weighed the pros and cons of this…

Making some of the more hardcore gamers happy with some sort of item progression
vs
Upsetting everyone else(casuals, pvp, etc).

You will lose players, there is no question of that. Was it worth it?

In my opinion, ArenaNet is pretty much throwing out the whole gear grind philosophy they so adamantly pontificated in their manifesto video by making ascended gear/weapons have higher tier stats than the current legendaries.

krookie.6378:

What system is that? Armor infusion against Mursaat? It’s not even close to the same thing. Hell, with a decent hero team in GW1 you don’t even need infused armor. I rolled through Prophecies with Discordway.

This new Agony thing is basically a way to keep people out of certain content because you’re going to need a certain amount of Agony protection to advance past a certain point. It’s basically counter to everything that GW2’s stood for.

You didn’t have Heroes in Prophecies. Or Factions. Those came two years after the concept of Ascention was introduced. It gated content. Pretty effectively.

Thanks Arena.

I think I’ve found a perfect excuse to study more and play less. Today on News at 11, killing the spirit of GW1 in one fell swoop.

Ebon.7641:

JohnnyV.9526:

Well, it didn’t take long for A-Net to go completely against its mantra of “fun first”. Oh well, Marvel Heroes will be out soon and it will be free-to-play.

How is this not going to be fun? It’s a ton of new challenging content. Please get a grip.

Having to grind out a new tier of gear to remain relevant in WvW isn’t my idea of fun.

They’re really going all the way for gear progression.

So much for no gear grind,
oh, those dungeons that we started with?Arah? Ascalonian catacombs? What about crucible of eternity? they are all obsolete now!
So much for the “different from other MMOs”

Lutheran.9687:

The stats on the gear I can really live with. How much damage does 1 extra point of power at level 80 really get you? How about 5? People I think just see higher numbers and jump to ultimate conclusions as to how much of a difference of an effect it really does to your characters overall performance.

It’s 5 per stat on just a little ring. That is the smallest upgrade you’ll see. Every other piece is going to have larger upgrades and when you add it all up, it is statistically much better in every part of the game than Exotics. Other dungeons will be easier with Ascended gear, it will have an effect on WvWvW. Grinding DE’s will be easier with it. It’s time to hop on the treadmill or go. I’m choosing the latter.

It’s quite sad that they’d spit on their own manifesto so soon all because they’re trying to please the WoW crowd. If the hardcore players have run out of stuff to do, why can’t they just take a break and come back when there’s new content to explore? It’s not like there’s a subscription fee. Their entire sales pitch was the manifesto and now they’re contradicting it? Bait and switch. I’ll think twice before spending another dime in the gem store, as I’m sure many others will.

Zanthrax.6538:

After reading the blog…you can see the items go up in LITERALLY 2 points per stat aka 10 to 12 precision etc etc…

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/?utm_source=client

Personally I kittening love you ANET…thank you for this. I can’t wait! If you feel 2 points of stats are going to be that big of a deal for dungeon content that scales you down ( except arah obviously ) and wvw…then well we simply disagree…WTB PvE Leaderboard website. Willing to help with its construction / maintaining.

It’s +5 stats when taking into account the upgrade slot. With a full set of Ascended gear, that’s +65 to each stat. That’s a lot.

Gilandred.9870:

For now, I’m going to have to agree with the apparent majority. Vertical progression via gear is not the way to go. Now, I’m not going to quit over this, it’s still a great game. However, I think you will end up losing some of your more loyal customers and replacing them with those that are always running to the next shiny. And trust me, that next shiny is never too far away.

In the end, all they’ll be left with is a mob of skritt. I’m not done with the game yet, but it certainly saps one’s enthusiasm.

With people already excluding others who don’t have exotics, I can see this encouraging another elitist and unfriendly playerbase. Open that margin wide enough and people will expect more and more to separate them from the “average” folks. This game needs to encourage more cooperation and reward people for helping those who are not already geared up. If they add something like this, they should also include something to encourage people to help others to get there as well.

Wow.. I was not expecting the worst case scenario but it did happen

Wow.. I was not expecting the worst case scenario but it did happenGw2, against its own manifesto, releases a new tier of gear 2 months after release.

I.. I dont know what to say here… I feel deeply betrayed right now.

iDestroy.4395:

Jesus, the complaining, moaning and crying. This topic makes me question the age of most of the players in Guild Wars 2.

To be one apart from the bandwagon, I’m happy to see somewhat of a huge update. It keeps things interesting, in my opinion.

Huge update good, gear progression this soon/at all bad. Its not hard to understand.

just stopped by to say shame on you Anet for adding a gear treadmill no body but want’s this

SLuG.3085:

Remember to exercise your rights as a consumer people: If you disagree with this change and feel you were misled and baited to buy this game, request a refund for the game and all gems you have bought. If they refuse, issue a chargeback through your credit card company. It is your right as a consumer. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. Hope this bankrupts you Anet. I’m out.

Well at this point I’ve most certainly gained 50 dollars worth of entertainment.

However I will exercise my right to not provide them with any additional cash. I’ve been (more or less) spending 15-20 bucks a month via gems in support of the game (The fact that it was free to play was probably the least important thing to make, I agree with monthly fees to help maintain MMO’s). I won’t do that anymore. I will also seriously reconsider whether I will purchase future expansions. I’m not going to quit instantly (the game is free…so it doesn’t really matter) but my support is for sure being withdrawn at this point.

As other people are saying…this is just a nasty precedent only 2 months into the game to establish a “gear gate” for content, plus generating a new tier of items. The game was not supposed to be about the items. It was supposed to be fairly easy to get the “top-level” gear, and you were supposed to be able to get it from multiple paths. The original release of the game lived up to that expectation with exotics. A new tier after 2 months? Will there be another tier in 6 months? Will the next set of dungeons require even more Infusion to counteract even more Agony, requiring people to farm for better gear before moving forward with content? That is not what GW2 was supposed to be about.

So yeah, I think this is it for me.

If I wanted a gear treadmill, I would play WoW or Rift or any other MMO for that matter. They all have gear treadmills and gear requirements to do dungeons/raids.

I play GW2 cause it was different and didn’t have that. It was like GW1. Get max level gear and the rest was a cosmetic grind and everything else added after that was cosmetic only. Everyone was equal and there was no mandatory grind. You could log out for a long time and log back in, knowing that you were still on par and didn’t have a ton of content to grind through just to catch up to everyone else. This is what was promised in the manifesto and why people bought the game cause it was what was advertised to us.

Now it seems Anet did a 180 and is now going the traditional MMO direction. We have a new tier and now infusions. So mandatory gear that we are going to need from now on with different infusions for each future dungeon so we can do them. So now I’m going to need to either constantly switch out my infusions (if I don’t break my gear salvaging them off), or farm a set for each infusion that comes out so I can be on par with all the new content and be able to survive in future dungeons.

And I already don’t like the Mystic Forge as it is, and now these things are made there. And with our luck, it is going to be some insane amount of mats or expensive mats to make it. And to even think worse, watch it end up being a cash shop item as well, thus becoming pay to win style. But that’s all speculation (the cash shop thought).

And how is this going to affect PvP now? Right now, all PvP gear is equal to exotics. What is going to happen with full Ascended geared players go into PvP? Are they going to be downscaled to exotic level, or are PvP players going to be upscaled to Ascended level? Or is nothing going to happen and players are stuck going against Ascended geared people?

You’ve introduced a gear gap (whether large or small) and made a gear treadmill. Which goes completely against your golden rule and your design philosophy. Guess people wanted what was already in every other MMO, to come to GW2 and make it no longer unique. Next you’ll be telling me that you have introduced the holy trinity because people complained enough for it.

Sorry but I really wish you would of stuck to being Guild Wars 2, instead of following the flock of traditional MMOs.

Webba.3071:

zaxziakohl.5243:

Lets be honest, the casuals are the ones complaining. They aren’t going to need the gear. The only reason they would need the gear, would be if they grind the new dungeon, and they won’t grind the dungeon because getting up to that difficulty would take hours to do, and thus become…..that’s right, hardcore not casual.

This is not about casual and hardcore, its about the GW way of doing things and the WOW way of doing things. You really going to call those people with 5000 hours of GW1 playtime casual? This does seem a lot like Anet throwing in the towel regarding their vision of MMOs. Its sad, more than anything else and doubly sad because so many people such as yourself misunderstand it.

Seeing as infused gear is in the original guild wars, it doesn’t seem like they’ve strayed of their course at all.

I have hundreds of hours of play, and know I will probably not get ascended or legendary gear. I already knew this. It doesn’t change the games playability at all. If anything it’s going to bring more players back. More players means ANet gets more money, which means I get to enjoy what I like about the game that much longer.

It’s only going to affect the people who get the gear, or are trying to get the gear in the first place. It’s not affecting the game for anyone else.

There is nothing wrong with adding in progression for players who want it. It’s not affecting the casual players, which is the stance ANet has always had. Power to the casual player as well as the hardcore. It’s only really giving an advantage in the dungeon, not anywhere else seeing as you can do pretty much everything in the game with any level of gear.

Just read the post by Linsey, and am completely baffled by this. It just doesn’t make any sense.

Why? oh. why? …after all the promises

This whole thing is just really disheartening to me. Look, I don’t mind a bit of progression but what about those of us who want to play multiple characters? It’s already going to be annoying enough to level up my alt, but now I have another level of rarity to deal with? Heck, not to mention the fact that I’ll either have to waste MORE transmutation stones, or I’ll have to wait even longer for my characters to look like I want them to look.

At least it’s just rings and back items for now?

Having straight up better stats on them is total crap though. Thanks for making me grind your “end-game” dungeon so I can have top stats for WvW. I’m so glad this new and exciting mechanic made its way to GW2.

JohnnyV.9526:

Having to grind out a new tier of gear to remain relevant in WvW isn’t my idea of fun.

Exactly.

I don’t like dungeons, i do enjoy other areas of the game and WvWvW and i really don’t like the fact i will basically have to grind something i don’t like to get items to remain on a level playing field in areas i do like.

It’s cool the back item is via the forge (and again it better use the 5 gold guild back item as a base) but to make the rings (and from the sounds of it other items in the future aswell) gated to the dungeons is just wrong, very wrong.

Ok, I have read the blog post. I have compared the two items in the screenshot provided. Thank you for confirming my fears about a dumb, silly gear progression race coming to the game, and nice job on breaking your promises in a very thorough manner, ANet. Welcome to the World of Warclones.

Shifu.4321:

Zanthrax.6538:

After reading the blog…you can see the items go up in LITERALLY 2 points per stat aka 10 to 12 precision etc etc…

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/?utm_source=client

Personally I kittening love you ANET…thank you for this. I can’t wait! If you feel 2 points of stats are going to be that big of a deal for dungeon content that scales you down ( except arah obviously ) and wvw…then well we simply disagree…WTB PvE Leaderboard website. Willing to help with its construction / maintaining.

You DO realize that Magic Find is the major stat point there? The total stat point increase from exotic to ascended isn’t just 2. It’s TEN points from the two minor stats alone. Add in the major stat and it’s probably more like 15. On a single item. Multiply that by 12 (6 armor pcs and 6 accessory pcs) and you’re looking at a stat increase of AT LEAST 180, and is probably closer to 200 since stuff like chest have bigger disparities, which is pretty big in my book.

And that’s not even considering the weapon, which traditionally has the biggest gap between item tiers. And has a damage increase.

You didn’t read the blog post right or you read what you wanted to read.

*November is introducing 2 items from the Ascended Gear line

• Back piece and Ring
  - Ring Acquired in dungeon
  - Back Piece acquired through recipe at mystic forge (not in dungeon)

You need the infusion for the harder parts of the dungeon for the new condition type agony.

THERE ISNT ASCENSION WEAPONS IN NOVEMBER UPDATE (yes I went caps cause forum is blind)

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

December update will add more ascension gear

IN NOVEMBER we’ll unveil the first Ascended items. This new rarity type falls between Exotic and Legendary on the spectrum of rarity and has slightly higher stats than Exotics.
Ascended gear works a little bit differently than other gear types. The stats and functionality normally added to gear through upgrade components are actually built into Ascended items. Instead of upgrade slots, Ascended gear has Infusion slots, and rarer versions of the items also come with additional Agony Resistance built into them. Players will be able to acquire Ascended Rings in the Fractals of the Mists dungeon, and Ascended items worn on the back can be acquired through special Mystic Forge recipes.

Dat comprehension

800+ hours played. Not casual. Hate this change so much.

I want to have viable alts, I want to log in and do what I find fun, not grind something just to stay at the same tier as everyone else.

krookie.6378:

Wallach.7291:

krookie.6378:

This Agony condition worries me. Especially the part of the blog which describes how you won’t be able to progress further unless you have an X amount of defense against it.

It’s just going to exclude people from content.

I’m not really feeling this new direction. No sir.

It’s not a new direction, this system already existed in Guild Wars.

While I am not a fan of the stat boost over exotics (not because I care that there is a tier above exotics, but because the WvW aspect of the game will be affected by the tier discrepancy), everything else about the armor is just stuff they already used in the previous game. Not sure how that is surprising.

What system is that? Armor infusion against Mursaat? It’s not even close to the same thing. Hell, with a decent hero team in GW1 you don’t even need infused armor. I rolled through Prophecies with Discordway.

This new Agony thing is basically a way to keep people out of certain content because you’re going to need a certain amount of Agony protection to advance past a certain point. It’s basically counter to everything that GW2’s stood for.

Um, yes you do need infusion… your little hero team, yeah they’re infused by default…. so, try doing it with a group of players WITHOUT infusion, or with henchies, you will get your kitten rocked.

iDestroy.4395:

Jesus, the complaining, moaning and crying. This topic makes me question the age of most of the players in Guild Wars 2.

To be one apart from the bandwagon, I’m happy to see somewhat of a huge update. It keeps things interesting, in my opinion.

Instead of taking into account why a lot of people are unhappy with this, and there are many plainly written and legitimate reasons, you simply dismiss the whole thread with the now common message board platitudes saying everyone is “crying” or whatever. I don’t think you should be questioning anyone’s age.

Wow the stat difference is absolutely huge AND its going to be a stupid artificial gating mechanism for the new dungeon? Thanks arenanet for going back on your word in that manifesto. I am seriously considering if I am going to keep playing after this.

Not to mention this really brings up questions about this games longevity. Seriously your forced to put this in this early in the games life? GG….

I can’t wait. Sounds like the GW2 team has some great stuff coming our way. I’m all for new items and content. The more the better for me. I like having stats to work for not just different art styles. Keep up the awesome work ArenaNet you’ve made a loyal customer out of me!

Why in kittens name would you lie to everyone and say it wnt be a gear grind game. This is utter bullkitten. Back to LoL where the devs listen.

Seeing as infused gear is in the original guild wars, it doesn’t seem like they’ve strayed of their course at all.

Infused gear in GW1 didn’t really do anything. And it wasn’t tier of gear – it was just status you obtained from completing one objective in one mission. Completely different thing.

And I for one don’t tell that I’m gonna finish my adventure with GW2. Game is pretty awesome. I just wish they told us from the start…

Why couldn’t the gear have the exact same stat values at Exotic? What made that so hard? Call it Uber Elite Gear X for all I care but keep the total stats equivalent to exotic + best slot item, then add your crappy infusion gimmick to gate your dungeons all you want.

Gating content, never good, never fun, never anything but a time sink.

I am heavily disappointing. I thought the infused armor would work like it did in GW1. I thought it was all just a misunderstanding…. I really can’t believe this. I don’t even have level 80 exotics yet. So why should I bother working for them if they aren’t the best anymore? I thought this was a game for casuals…. The game hasn’t been out for that long….

What about the hardcore WvW players who are now being forced to do PvE in order to PvP? Any stat increase has to be sought after because other players will do it to gain an edge as well do don’t say we aren’t forced, because we are if we want to remain competitive.

Gear grind?
There is one now.
Enjoy!

iDestroy.4395:

Jesus, the complaining, moaning and crying. This topic makes me question the age of most of the players in Guild Wars 2.

Adults who value fun over grinding gear because we realize it’s just a game, who put value in promises kept, who are willing to stick around and shell out the money we earned at our full time jobs you college kids don’t have if a company does right by us. And since you asked I’ll be 30 in March.

From the sounds of it, the gear will be completely random too. So not only will WvW players have to grind for dungeon gear, but they’ll have to run the dungeon a lot for the random chance.

Do people seriously play games for endless progression? Am I the only person who found it tedious to level up and get exotics? Does anyone play games just for fun anymore? Is there a reason why I’m asking the forum-goers all these questions?

Well, that’s that, I guess.

I’m sure the developement team doesn’t read this thread the same way the support doesn’t read the reddit page. That way they can’t see what damage they’re doing.

The update just sounds more and more cool to me. If it turns out to me an annoying grind (i.e. legendary weapons) then I have to say that’s fine too because I respect that different people like different kinds of content.

By the way GW1 respected different groups of gamers the same way. If you don’t think there were crazy but totally pointless grind endgame stuff to do, you didn’t play it.

And the part of the point is not to grind it! Take it as a long term goal.

Yes, that’s right. You don’t sit on the game and click your fingers raw. That’s not why they add this stuff even if some people are somehow in a position to play that way.

But all in all I’m excited. All updates are welcome free additions to the game. If you’re leaving forever for some reason, well it will be interesting to see what other games you find with as much variety and updates.

Lopez.7369:

From the sounds of it, the gear will be completely random too. So not only will WvW players have to grind for dungeon gear, but they’ll have to run the dungeon a lot for the random chance.

Did they state somewhere it’ll be soulbond by default? (except – prolly – rings…)

Leiloni.7951:

Lutheran.9687:

The stats on the gear I can really live with. How much damage does 1 extra point of power at level 80 really get you? How about 5? People I think just see higher numbers and jump to ultimate conclusions as to how much of a difference of an effect it really does to your characters overall performance.

It’s 5 per stat on just a little ring. That is the smallest upgrade you’ll see. Every other piece is going to have larger upgrades and when you add it all up, it is statistically much better in every part of the game than Exotics. Other dungeons will be easier with Ascended gear, it will have an effect on WvWvW. Grinding DE’s will be easier with it. It’s time to hop on the treadmill or go. I’m choosing the latter.

Statistically yes. I’m not arguing that in any way. But, if you add all that gear up and it added only an additional 5 points of damage to your attacks then what does it really get? That is what I am getting at here. How much does 1 point more of Power really get you? How about 5? 10? 15? I can go on with this, but the last I checked there aren’t any exact numbers out there.

Don’t get me wrong you will see a performance increase with this gear. The question comes down to how much is it a performance increase because of gear and how much of that increase is simply a player getting better by learning the game? I’ve seen people in other MMOs concentrate on the numbers. Numbers mean nothing if you can’t use them properly and to your advantage.