Guild Wars 2

MajorMelchett.6042:

This just needs to be posted until they notice what THEY said.
—-
http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success#more-8572

“Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.” – Colin Johanson
—-
The last bolded part is key here.

That is so rich. Talk about one of the largest bait&switch’es in the history of gaming.

People can get an edge in end-game content with the consumables that come from black lion chests and other consumables, some of which do already stack (such as sharpening stones with food). People can get an edge by playing better builds, and playing them better. Engineers are constantly screwed by any vertical gear changes, because neither turrets nor weapon kits get that “extra edge”. Why, then, do we need to add more gear stats to achieve more??? All this is inviting is more balancing nightmares, more build changes, and more power creep.

NO ITEM PROGRESSION PLEASE

Challenging content is awesome, so yeah do more of that. Just say no to gear progression, period. That was the best thing you ever did with GW1, and I’m tempted to just go back to playing that.

Tyr.1965:

Crackbone.5710:

However, I have to add if these vocal players in this thread that are upset about the changes are the only ones who are pissed off about this change, ANet has succeeded.

What I see are the same handful of posters continuing to rage about something that’s done and in the books as of Friday.

If youre posting on the forums at all, you are already part of a minority regardless of your opinion on this change. Most players do not post on the forums at all. So we have two minority camps here with extremely opposing opinions of this change. Which camp is bigger? The one that hates the gear treadmill. Why is ANet listening to the smaller camp? Is it just because they were the only ones kittening all this time? The rest of us didnt have anything to kitten about. Now we do and we’re coming out in droves.

Or, you are in fact in the minority, and they have the data to back it up.

melchiz.7182:

tkalamba.2541:

Considering the entire Manifesto was about options, and the new gear is not mandatory, there was no lie.

Nothing is “mandatory.” You can run around WvW in a set of blues. Have fun with that.

Considering WvW ends up devolving into a game of number of players fielded in an area, its not difficult to do at all….. I still don’t have any Exotic Accessories, and hold my own no problem. I’ve leveled two characters in WvW no problem….

WvW is not a 1v1 scenario, it’s no SPvP and was never balanced….. Ascended Gear will make no difference whatsoever to it.

Infact, you can’t even customize Ascended gear to your playstyle, where as you can with Exotics through upgrade slots…. That’s more valuable to a WvW player.

Additionally, WvW is an entirely different beast as it doesn’t fully rely on individual stats. In the end it always breaks down into mobs of players fighting.

Ascended gear will barely have any effect whatsoever in WvW. It never was equal, and never will be.

There are items already in game that are more useful anyways, and its not like every WvW player has them. Take a look at the Tri-Forge Pendant.

+40 Power
+40 Precision
+40 Toughness
+40 Vitality
+5% Critical Damage
+40 Healing Power
+40 Condition Damage
+ Upgrade slot

Doesn’t this item alone already effect game balance? It provides bonuses to all stats and has a slot for upgrades… where the complaints for it?

Judas.5432:

Corvindi.5734:

100 pages, mostly against this change.

Well, this is how many people there were who were not complaining about the state of the game. I suppose this is what happens when you listen to the loud whiners without polling the actual player base ;-)

*TL;DR *
The matter summarized.

April Fools?

Seriously – this must be a joke.

But I’m not laughing……

Now Anet have shown they cannot be trusted.. I wonder what bull kitten they will say to try and gain our trust again..

This has opened a can of worms that they will most defiantly not be able to get the lid back on….

I having this made into a t-shirt:

We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.” – Colin Johanson… Pants… on… Fire.

Judas.5432:

Corvindi.5734:

100 pages, mostly against this change.

Well, this is how many people there were who were not complaining about the state of the game. I suppose this is what happens when you listen to the loud whiners without polling the actual player base ;-)

Actually from the past posts, this isn’t how i’ve interpreted the feedback. And why are the people that feel as though they have legitimate issues with the game fall into the category of whiners?

This change covers 2 basic complaints that have been the crux of posts on this forum and others. It deals with legendaries not feeling as if they are legendary and it adds “end game” which is something there are even more threads on than praise. People that were happy with the game weren’t on here voicing opinions, they were playing or otherwise engaged. I honestly cannot fathom the amount of turmoil this has caused and the lack of interpretation that these changes address. This will all settle in in time and people will actually figure out they are ok with the change. It’s really not hardly as drastic as most of the people posting are making it out to be. It’s something new and i’d rather see them try new stuff than just stick to the same ole.

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

I having this made into a t-shirt:

We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.” – Colin Johanson… Pants… on… Fire.

I’m wondering if making it a sig would be infraction worthy?, i can’t see any rules against it but considering how things go it’s best to ask.

I used to think forums really didn’t mean that much , or make that much of a difference, until i watched Bioware squirm under the pressure of the mass effect fanbase.

Hi guys, just read the news and let me tell you, , I have never expected a change like this to happen.

What can I say, I am delighted with this new progression system that ANet has implement because this will definitely bring more players to the game I love to play since day 1. Really, I can’t just hold my excitement to see new players experience the new end game that was developed.

Cheers Arena Net and keep the changes coming,

Blizzard.

tkalamba.2541:

melchiz.7182:

tkalamba.2541:

Considering the entire Manifesto was about options, and the new gear is not mandatory, there was no lie.

Nothing is “mandatory.” You can run around WvW in a set of blues. Have fun with that.

Considering WvW ends up devolving into a game of number of players fielded in an area, its not difficult to do at all….. I still don’t have any Exotic Accessories, and hold my own no problem. I’ve leveled two characters in WvW no problem….

WvW is not a 1v1 scenario, it’s no SPvP and was never balanced….. Ascended Gear will make no difference whatsoever to it.

Infact, you can’t even customize Ascended gear to your playstyle, where as you can with Exotics through upgrade slots…. That’s more valuable to a WvW player.

Additionally, WvW is an entirely different beast as it doesn’t fully rely on individual stats. In the end it always breaks down into mobs of players fighting.

Ascended gear will barely have any effect whatsoever in WvW. It never was equal, and never will be.

There are items already in game that are more useful anyways, and its not like every WvW player has them. Take a look at the Tri-Forge Pendant.

+40 Power
+40 Precision
+40 Toughness
+40 Vitality
+5% Critical Damage
+40 Healing Power
+40 Condition Damage
+ Upgrade slot

Doesn’t this item alone already effect game balance? It provides bonuses to all stats and has a slot for upgrades… where the complaints for it?

That is just one pendant, we are talking about a whole separate tier on it own here, the different is huge.

Crackbone.5710:

Tyr.1965:

Crackbone.5710:

However, I have to add if these vocal players in this thread that are upset about the changes are the only ones who are pissed off about this change, ANet has succeeded.

What I see are the same handful of posters continuing to rage about something that’s done and in the books as of Friday.

If youre posting on the forums at all, you are already part of a minority regardless of your opinion on this change. Most players do not post on the forums at all. So we have two minority camps here with extremely opposing opinions of this change. Which camp is bigger? The one that hates the gear treadmill. Why is ANet listening to the smaller camp? Is it just because they were the only ones kittening all this time? The rest of us didnt have anything to kitten about. Now we do and we’re coming out in droves.

Or, you are in fact in the minority, and they have the data to back it up.

And you’re just as quick to assume that their data supports your side. People bought this game knowing that it’s not WoW and are now complaining that it isnt. What about all the people that bought this game -because- its not WoW? Don’t they get a say in all this? Or will the 100 pages of this thread and counting just be ignored so ANet can get some of that fabled WoW money?

munkiman.3068:

It’s really not hardly as drastic as most of the people posting are making it out to be. It’s something new and i’d rather see them try new stuff than just stick to the same ole.

It’s not new though. It’s the same old gear grind hamster wheel. The same one a LOT of us were trying to avoid in our MMO gaming.

Amen to this OP.

I see absolutely no value in this agony forcing you to have certain grade of equipment to complete game content.

noskill.6294:

Guys:

Gw1——-> CORPG
Gw2——-> MMORPG

what is appening atm is absolutely normal.

No, not really.

MMO is not a model. It is not a formula.

It is a genre.

Vertical progression and “end-game” is not the only way an MMO can be designed. It is not the only model that has been used. It is not the only formula that has worked. The most cursory research on the genre would reveal that.

Honestly, I believe the anomalous success of World of Warcraft has completely stifled the top end of the genre. Over the years, instead of innovating and creating new models, many other high-profile studios have just tried to copy the “winning” formula.

Which is sad, given that the big dog’s success very likely had more to do with timing of release, a solid studio reputation, and an established IP that was native to the medium, rather than its gameplay or design model (which is, frankly, rather uninspired in many ways).

I understand that the level of monetary investment involved in an MMO encourages a conservative approach, but it doesn’t explain a willful blindness to data. The grind-style model reliably produces a certain arc in revenue and participation. Even the big dog has followed this arc, it’s just writ large (really large). In and of itself, the formula clearly runs its course and comes to an end. But other MMOs have not followed this trajectory (EVE comes to mind). Why is that continuously ignored?

Also, this particular distributor, NCSoft, has already seen the result of adding a raid-style “end-game grind” to an MMO that, for years, didn’t have one. Did the game then experience an unprecedented spike in popularity? No. Did the existing community flock to that content in droves? No. In fact, on many servers it was difficult to gather enough people to even meet the basic number requirements for the raid instances. But wait— hadn’t there been a certain segment of the community clamoring for that kind of end-game for all those years? Yes. Well, when they finally got it, what happened?

They blew through the content in a matter of days, complained about being bored now, and moved onto the next game. Because that’s what that crowd always does. So, at a time when it’s allegedly all about retention of the player base and building community, why do distributors and studios keep trying to court this notoriously fickle and apparently fairly small gaming demographic?

I will say with some confidence that this move by ANet will not garner any noticeable return on investment. It’s already done some damage to their reputation, and that may get worse from here. The people who’re responding positively to the additions will race through the content as fast as possible and then once again complain about having nothing to do. They will not bring new people in, and they will wander off to some other game until the next content release occurs. Meanwhile, the segment that doesn’t want this chocolate in their peanut butter will feel less invested, and thus more prone to being drawn away by another game. And if they commit to another game, they are very likely not to return to buy those expansions.

That’s my prediction with how things stand now. If ANet continues on this road, GW2 will become another addition to the growing pile of “coulda been” MMOs inside of a couple of years.

MMOs are not just games. They are social constructs. Developers and distributors need to look up from the white papers and acknowledge that. This is the age of social media, which should be fertile soil for the genre. Devs need to stop looking at “end-game” (an inherently dead-end concept for a persistent world) and start looking at community building. If an economist can be added to staff, a sociologist or two can be brought on as well. We’d all be better served by it, because game developers very plainly aren’t getting it.

MajorMelchett.6042:

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

I having this made into a t-shirt:

We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.” – Colin Johanson… Pants… on… Fire.

I’m wondering if making it a sig would be infraction worthy, i can’t see any rules against it.

I say we all do it together. Will they ban us all from the forum at the same time?

Crackbone.5710:

Or, you are in fact in the minority, and they have the data to back it up.

Or they don’t have the data to back it up, because up until they proposed this change, there was no reason for the majority of players to voice their support for static gear power.

This thread is probably going to end up being bigger (in terms of post volume) than the entire Halloween event forum. If they’d had any idea this would be the reaction, they probably would have prepared something a little more robust to try to manage the dissatisfaction.

Crackbone.5710:

Or, you are in fact in the minority, and they have the data to back it up.

you are making assumptions about assumptions here, no one has data other than Anet and if there has beena drop in concurrency
1 its AAA season there are other games people want to play as well as this
2 there is always a falloff as tourists head back to the mmo they came from, correlation is not causation

anyway happy page 100 people to commemorate this lets think of alternatives to vertical progression and the requirement for agony resist gear

i want a repeat of the original guild wars challenge missions, let bosses give bonus time on kill and you get to see how far into the fractals you can get before timer expires, keep leaderboards and reward daily/weekly/monthly top with some bonus

edit: also Devs have said triforge pendant follows their design as it has lower stats distributed more widely than higher stats in a specific category so you can be an ok all rounder or very good while specialised

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

tkalamba.2541:

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

The Manifesto was a lie.

The whole company should be ashamed.

Considering the entire Manifesto was about options, and the new gear is not mandatory, there was no lie.

Bubbles.2507:
From GW2 manifesto
“Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun;”

Adding new layers of gear with stats required to complete the hardest parts of new instances is not optional. The new gear and condition is the definition of a grinding treadmill.

Anet Manifesto = Lie’s

Is the Dungeon mandatory? Considering its randomized and never ends….. no its not. It’s 100% optional. You can’t even actually finish it… it doesn’t end…. at all… just keep going until its too hard and you give up.

The Agony only kicks in after you run the dungeon instances a few times. You can probably see all 9 areas without ever having to worry. I fail to see how you absolutely 100% have to do this content.

On a side note, I can finally get some more studying/going out with friends/exploring (in real life)/ traveling/ reading done.

Watching the manifesto today is pure sarcasm.
Just liars!

Kasei.8726:

The implementation of Ascended gear goes against the primary reason why I bought this game, but I will reserve final judgement until I see the details when the patch comes out. However, as a loyal customer who purchased every GW1 game and expansion, I won’t purchase anything more from Anet if this is the route they wish to take. ~ Son, I am disappoint

Exactly how I feel right now……

But wait a second.
I don’t like this change, but you won’t be using that gear in sPvP. You can use it in PvE and WvWvW.

Guys, my gf survived to an entire WvW session (lasted 1 evening) with a lvl2 warrior and equip, without dying… will some ascended armors/weapons make difference?
It’s a 300vs300 game mode.

They must be reminded of what they said originally to at the very least see why players are upset.

I do have to say, i am hoping for the best, however naive that may be. When it’s proven that they won’t continue the fake progression route, i’ll happily admit my mistake and move on.

ArenaNet, Show us that you’re different.

tkalamba.2541:

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

The Manifesto was a lie.

The whole company should be ashamed.

Considering the entire Manifesto was about options, and the new gear is not mandatory, there was no lie.

It is mandatory. Hang onto your Exotics and don’t run dungeons you don’t care about to get Ascended gear. Get stomped in WvWvW and told to get good scrub by some kid who has some more stat points than you. So maybe for you it’s not mandatory, but for any competitive person it sure is.

If all else, the agony mechanic needs to go. I think people can live with a new tier of gear, but gating content is implementing poor mechanics from 2006 World of Warcraft.

I haven’t read all 100 pages… but it does seem an overwhelming number of players are against this. There is good news… everyone fears they will now be REQUIRED to have this new “better” gear, or they will not be accepted into dungeons etc.. Looks to me like 100+ pages of people have PLENTY of people that dont’ want this gear, so take down the names and run with them as they will NOT require you to get ascended gear. Everything is optional in this game pretty much I’ll choose the option to enjoy the game JUST as I have since I started playing. If I am denied a party slot due to lack of Ascended gear, then it was a party I didn’t want to run with anyway.

Call me a fan boi, but I love this game and will continue to enjoy what it provides me.

So ANet, now that you posted your blog post everyone hates this idea even more. Good job giving the live design to your dumbest designers.

rikuharada.3152:

tkalamba.2541:

melchiz.7182:

tkalamba.2541:

Considering the entire Manifesto was about options, and the new gear is not mandatory, there was no lie.

Nothing is “mandatory.” You can run around WvW in a set of blues. Have fun with that.

Considering WvW ends up devolving into a game of number of players fielded in an area, its not difficult to do at all….. I still don’t have any Exotic Accessories, and hold my own no problem. I’ve leveled two characters in WvW no problem….

WvW is not a 1v1 scenario, it’s no SPvP and was never balanced….. Ascended Gear will make no difference whatsoever to it.

Infact, you can’t even customize Ascended gear to your playstyle, where as you can with Exotics through upgrade slots…. That’s more valuable to a WvW player.

Additionally, WvW is an entirely different beast as it doesn’t fully rely on individual stats. In the end it always breaks down into mobs of players fighting.

Ascended gear will barely have any effect whatsoever in WvW. It never was equal, and never will be.

There are items already in game that are more useful anyways, and its not like every WvW player has them. Take a look at the Tri-Forge Pendant.

+40 Power
+40 Precision
+40 Toughness
+40 Vitality
+5% Critical Damage
+40 Healing Power
+40 Condition Damage
+ Upgrade slot

Doesn’t this item alone already effect game balance? It provides bonuses to all stats and has a slot for upgrades… where the complaints for it?

That is just one pendant, we are talking about a whole separate tier on it own here, the different is huge.

This one item set its own precedent, and is no way equal to any other items in the game…. it already outweighs the benefits from the item in the new tier we’ve already seen…. and it can be upgraded…. This new tier cannot….

Khallis.5708:

imagine if this was a monthly sub game? i would love to see how many would have hit the unsubscribe button over this.

i think i would have.

I would if the update comes out as it sounds.
Now all i´m able to do is to stop purchaisng gems untill i see how it turns out.

The image included in the blogpost struck me like a fist in the stomach…gear with more stats than current maximum amounts, make that happen and i´m out of here.

Infusion mechanic, fair enough
I don´t mind having this in game, though i do have some concerns shared by mutliple people here. But still this could work, and it only affects the part of the game it´s included in.

Gear power creep.
I don´t want to see this happen, not at all. No matter how small of upgrade it is, this is terrible idea, and will backfire horribly. I´ve seen other games i love being destroyed by it, i don´t want to see it happen here.
I can´t understand how they have even considered, this. They are going against everything they said before launch, against everything they stated was their philosophy on this. There´s many better ways to introduce the feel of gear progression, how the hell they ended up with this is beyond me…
They could add different combinations of stats, new stats like %chance for effect x, differentaition in base weapon power brackets, increase in irrevelevant stats like magic find or gold find, make up other irrelevant stats for example exp gain, stats that only affect the said dungeon like lightbringer skills in nightfall. add more skins that are between normal and legendaries…..anything but power creep.

I dearly hope they won´t go through with this.
And i´m certain that i won´t, if it ships as it´s portrayed now, i´m out.

Valinerya.6713:

munkiman.3068:

It’s really not hardly as drastic as most of the people posting are making it out to be. It’s something new and i’d rather see them try new stuff than just stick to the same ole.

It’s not new though. It’s the same old gear grind hamster wheel. The same one a LOT of us were trying to avoid in our MMO gaming.

It’s really not, actually. Releasing a new tier of gear isn’t being released to address much else beyond this dungeon content affect “agony”. The point increase is so minimal and falls in line with the people wanting the slight stat increase to legendaries. But they weren’t going to just let that stat increase go to the limited few that acquire legendaries. It’s a two fold solution, one in which i think is a great, well-thought out compromise.

tkalamba.2541:

melchiz.7182:

tkalamba.2541:

Considering the entire Manifesto was about options, and the new gear is not mandatory, there was no lie.

Nothing is “mandatory.” You can run around WvW in a set of blues. Have fun with that.

Considering WvW ends up devolving into a game of number of players fielded in an area, its not difficult to do at all….. I still don’t have any Exotic Accessories, and hold my own no problem. I’ve leveled two characters in WvW no problem….

WvW is not a 1v1 scenario, it’s no SPvP and was never balanced….. Ascended Gear will make no difference whatsoever to it.

Infact, you can’t even customize Ascended gear to your playstyle, where as you can with Exotics through upgrade slots…. That’s more valuable to a WvW player.

Additionally, WvW is an entirely different beast as it doesn’t fully rely on individual stats. In the end it always breaks down into mobs of players fighting.

Ascended gear will barely have any effect whatsoever in WvW. It never was equal, and never will be.

There are items already in game that are more useful anyways, and its not like every WvW player has them. Take a look at the Tri-Forge Pendant.

+40 Power
+40 Precision
+40 Toughness
+40 Vitality
+5% Critical Damage
+40 Healing Power
+40 Condition Damage
+ Upgrade slot

Doesn’t this item alone already effect game balance? It provides bonuses to all stats and has a slot for upgrades… where the complaints for it?

Cause this pendant isn’t really worth, you can’t max any build with that… Clearly you still don’t know how this game works. It’s like divinity runes, jack of all trade master of nothing, used only for take some belace but a lot build are based on max burst, bunker or condition where this thrinket is almost useless.

This makes no sense. Seriously, it doesn’t.

Adding a gear grind to a game with NO SUB FEE. What’s the point? Whether I get my gear over the next 6 months, or whether I get it playing 24 hours a day the next week – Anet gets the same amount of money from me. Which is none, aside from what I buy in the gem store.

Where is the horizontal progress that should be paying the bills? Where’s the new gem store skins? Non-event minis? Weapon skins? New townclothes? New cosmetic slots? Housing? All stuff we would have to drop real money on for gems, and would do so gladly because LOOKING COOL was the real grind of the game?

And if we weren’t dropping real money – we’d be grinding gold in-game to buy gems, which has the EXACT same effect as adding a gear grind (making us spend more time in-game) but without the penalty of breaking the Manifesto and making their core subscribers feel betrayed.

This is illogical and crazy. Hardcore grinders are never going to be the target audience for this game because it has NO SUB FEE. Spending more time in-game without spending money does Anet no good. The people they NEED are the cosmetics-kittens who would be spending money like gangbusters for housing, townclothes and the like.

For a game with this business model, vertical progression makes absolutely no sense as a development direction.

That makes very interesting reading, almost a mirror image of what could happen with GW2.

Good to see that the developer’s had the bottle to admit it was a mistake and do away with it.

tkalamba.2541:

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

tkalamba.2541:

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

The Manifesto was a lie.

The whole company should be ashamed.

Considering the entire Manifesto was about options, and the new gear is not mandatory, there was no lie.

Bubbles.2507:
From GW2 manifesto
“Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun;”

Adding new layers of gear with stats required to complete the hardest parts of new instances is not optional. The new gear and condition is the definition of a grinding treadmill.

Anet Manifesto = Lie’s

Is the Dungeon mandatory? Considering its randomized and never ends….. no its not. It’s 100% optional. You can’t even actually finish it… it doesn’t end…. at all… just keep going until its too hard and you give up.

The Agony only kicks in after you run the dungeon instances a few times. You can probably see all 9 areas without ever having to worry. I fail to see how you absolutely 100% have to do this content.

The only thing that makes it mandatory is that (from what we have heard) the new gear type will ONLY be available via the dungeon, and that gear type is STATISTICALLY SUPERIOR to exotics.

Therefore, if you want to have the best gear for WvW…you gotta run the fractals.

funforums.4850:

But wait a second.
I don’t like this change, but you won’t be using that gear in sPvP. You can use it in PvE and WvWvW.

Guys, my gf survived to an entire WvW session (lasted 1 evening) with a lvl2 warrior and equip, without dying… will some ascended armors/weapons make difference?
It’s a 300vs300 game mode.

What did she do that was worth anything? Standing around not dying at lvl 2 doesn’t mean anything. Are you seriously going to argue that your lvl 2 girlfriend brings more to the table in a fight than a lvl 80 currently decked out in Exotics. Factually you’re just wrong. If you’re fine with competing on uneven footing good for you. I’m not. I don’t play WoW because the skill ceiling is abysmally low and outside of that it’s all my numbers are bigger than yours.

And to everyone else saying “It’s 300 v 300 not 1v1” What game are you playing? I engage in small skirmishes of less than 5 per side in WvWvW all the time and certainly a ton of 1v1’s and 1v2’s. If you would actually roam and work for your team rather than just running around in a mindless zerg you might actually experience what us “complainers” are talking about.

4,978 replies.
46,856 views.

Too bad I can’t export this mess into a excel document and collect some stats. Would be interesting to see for/against numbers. Small sample but sure to be enlightening…

Also wonder how many infractions this thread has caused

Solid Gold.9310:

That makes very interesting reading, almost a mirror image of what could happen with GW2.

Good to see that the developer’s had the bottle to admit it was a mistake and do away with it.

Happened way too late for a lot of the playerbase though.

The new dungeons are for hardcore endgame players. You don’t have to do any of the content, you can sit in a corner in Divinitys Reach if you want. It’s ok.

Shadow Blade.1324:

Crackbone.5710:

Or, you are in fact in the minority, and they have the data to back it up.

you are making assumptions about assumptions here, no one has data other than Anet and if there has beena drop in concurrency
1 its AAA season there are other games people want to play as well as this
2 there is always a falloff as tourists head back to the mmo they came from, correlation is not causation

anyway happy page 100 people to commemorate this lets think of alternatives to vertical progression and the requirement for agony resist gear

i want a repeat of the original guild wars challenge missions, let bosses give bonus time on kill and you get to see how far into the fractals you can get before timer expires, keep leaderboards and reward daily/weekly/monthly top with some bonus

I’m making a conclusion based on the fact that the new item tier is being released this Friday.

As for your second suggestion, that sounds like fun, but that is something I’d expect to find in a lobby type game, or the original Guild Wars.

Guild Wars 2 is not Guild Wars. It’s been positioned as a full fledged MMORPG with a few enhancements (no quest hubs, dynamic events, etc).

While I truly do understand why many here expected otherwise, after roughly 3 months of play, it was pretty evident to me that something had to give.

Farming Plinx ad infinitum isn’t what I would call fun , and based on “Player Feedback” I imagine that ANet came to the same conclusion.

In a full fledged MMORPG, players expect progression other than skins. I understand that wasn’t the original Guild Wars formula, nor was it what many GW players expected. However, GW2 is what it is.

Lastly, as I’ve said previously, internally there must have been a reason for this change. Likely their internal projections affirmed that they will not be successful long term with ONLY cosmetic carrots.

I rarely post on gaming forums, seems useless and futile. However for the first
time in years i had a good feeling about GW2. Seems i was wrong.
Rethink please A’net!

Yep, the whole nonsense ‘agony’ mechanic in particular sounds like it goes against everything that I thought ANet stood for.

Seriously Mike O’Brian, you are agree whit this changes?
Thanks to betray Gw1 fan base.

Nephaerius.9103:

tkalamba.2541:

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

The Manifesto was a lie.

The whole company should be ashamed.

Considering the entire Manifesto was about options, and the new gear is not mandatory, there was no lie.

It is mandatory. Hang onto your Exotics and don’t run dungeons you don’t care about to get Ascended gear. Get stomped in WvWvW and told to get good scrub by some kid who has some more stat points than you. So maybe for you it’s not mandatory, but for any competitive person it sure is.

WvW is all about the number of players. You’re individual stats don’t mean as much as you think they do. I am competitive in WvW. Have been from the get go, and levelled my characters in WvW. In the end, the +5 stats from a handful of items won’t equate to making you unstoppable. Even if you get Full Ascended gear, you still won’t benefit much. The increases in your overall pool of stats is pretty small. Even with +80 vit…. thats only 800 HP, most characters already do more than that in a single hit in WvW. Throw in conditions, crits, and the overall number of individual players, and that 800 HP means nothing at all.

Worth noting that Infusions can be acquired through the Mystic Forge, rather than gating dungeons behind dungeons. It’s entirely possible that you could be able to bypass the gating mechanic before ever setting foot in the Fractals of the Mists.

We also don’t know at what point in the dungeon, keeping in mind that difficulty will continuously scale, Agony will become unbearable without Infusions. It may be that you can get the Ascended gear you want for later stages well before it’s ever necessary by this method as well.

Wait to see how exactly the system is implemented before passing judgement. And even then, ANet has been far more responsive to making adjustments and responding to player feedback than Turbine ever was. If they feel that the system is dividing the community or creating an undesirable grind, I would expect to see changes fairly quick.

PS – I also think it’s important to remember that for 99% of the content, the current gear will server most players just fine. You can run any of the current explorable dungeons in masterworks if you need to.

(Speculation) Even with regards to WvW, the stat increases that we’ve seen so far will hardly be overwhelming for someone with full exotics. Ascended gear and Infusions are only necessary for very high end PvE content that many players may never even see due to the difficulty of the content before it.

Crapgame.6519:

4,978 replies.
46,856 views.

Too bad I can’t export this mess into a excel document and collect some stats. Would be interesting to see for/against numbers. Small sample but sure to be enlightening…

Also wonder how many infractions this thread has caused

Statistically, this is not a small sample size and is absolutely relevant. However, it certainly might not be representative of the entire playerbase.

Crater.1625:

Crackbone.5710:

Or, you are in fact in the minority, and they have the data to back it up.

Or they don’t have the data to back it up, because up until they proposed this change, there was no reason for the majority of players to voice their support for static gear power.

This thread is probably going to end up being bigger (in terms of post volume) than the entire Halloween event forum. If they’d had any idea this would be the reaction, they probably would have prepared something a little more robust to try to manage the dissatisfaction.

Or just carried on with their plans, for the future of the game.

Some percentage of the audience will quit this game. Those who want gear progression and a more traditional MMORPG model, or those who want the original Guild Wars in a GW2 skin.

I’m betting that those wanting the original Guild Wars are in the minority based on the fact that they’ve introduced Ascended Gear at all.

Do you honestly think that internal projections and retention numbers aren’t at the heart of this addition? That they haven’t studied this in depth?

MajorMelchett.6042:

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

I having this made into a t-shirt:

We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.” – Colin Johanson… Pants… on… Fire.

I’m wondering if making it a sig would be infraction worthy?, i can’t see any rules against it but considering how things go it’s best to ask.

Your a genius.
Shortened to fit but done.

Feel free to follow along guys.