Guild Wars 2

I can only speak for myself. I’m not a jaded professional mmorpg player.

I’m an Engineer, I pretty much play it exclusively.

I purposely did not go after Legendary Weapons (Rifle, 2 Pistols, and Shield) because I pretty much felt like their look (especially the pistols and rifles) were ugly, and silly.

Am I correct in assuming that because I avoided these ugly weapons, that I missed out on having “the most powerful” weapon I could have in my inventory? That sort of bothers me. Maybe I’m mistaken.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

I don’t understand this statement because, right now, there isn’t a massive jump in reward between exotic and legendary. What it does sound like, however, is that you plan on creating one by introducing tiers between these equipment types. Is that not “adding a new tier of gear.. that we expect everyone to chase after”?

You would have a point if there actually was a massive jump between exotics and legendary rewards currently (rather than just an aesthetic difference) and you were simply attempting to introduce a voluntary tier bridging the two equipment ranks that players had the option of skipping, but that’s not what you’re doing. What am I misunderstanding?

Simply suggesting that legendary items will always be the best equipment doesn’t eliminate the possibility of chasing tiers of gear if you keep “moving the bar” and inserting additional tiers between the exotic and legendary ranks. I mean, that’s something you can literally keep adding in there forever. I guess it’s great for characters once they’re completely decked out in legendary equipment, but for new players/characters that particular finish line keeps getting further and further away.

Chris, I am sorry but Anet has pretty much lost all credibility with this crap already. The trust is broken and guess what, Chris, those same hardcore players will be demanding more item progression in 3 months. What will you guys do then? The precedent has been set.

I was hoping that Linsey’s blog was wrong and when we finally got a reply it would be shown as wrong, but you basically said the same kitten thing as Linsey. No dice.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t exotic and legendary same stats?

What is your goal again? Change the stats of legendary? and then create a tier in between??

Please do not lie to us, or act as if you are not going back on your word.

I don’t normally post in the forum, but I had to log in and throw my opinion into the hat on the tiny, tiny chance that it would actually make a difference.

I’m horribly, horribly disappointed. GW1 and — up until this moment — GW2, stood as a bright pinpoint of light in the philosophy of quality over quantity, excellence, and respect for its players’ time.

I was an original GW1 alpha tester for Prophecies. I devoted large swaths of my youth to moderating large fansite communities. All these years since, I’ve held you in the highest regard. ArenaNet, I’ve never been so disappointed in you.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill.
…
Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

One question.

Just one.

Please respond with a yes or no.

Will Ascended level gear+Infusions be statistically superior to existing Exotics+Upgrade level gear?

edit: Mr. Whiteside’s post is on page 120 for those who don’t want to dig.

Letifer.4360:

so at lvl 80 you already had: Basic, Fine, Masterwork, Rare and Exotic, they are all upgrades from each other no one cried about that, now they introduce Ascended which supposedly will be the last tier of gear in the game (they will just change the infusions in future content that’s it) and people freak out… makes sense.

How can anybody be sure that Ascended gear is the last one ..

I think in the next expansion they add even better ascended gear with better stats than the current one.

Broken promise is broken promise. You cant believe anet anymore

its like gf or bf who cheated and now she/he promise that it was the for last time onyl kitten would believe that

Letifer.4360:

Strang.8170:

Letifer.4360:

so at lvl 80 you already had: Basic, Fine, Masterwork, Rare and Exotic, they are all upgrades from each other no one cried about that, now they introduce Ascended which supposedly will be the last tier of gear in the game (they will just change the infusions in future content that’s it) and people freak out… makes sense.

Just like exotics were supposedly the last tier of equipment?

who said that?

Funny, with the frequency this has been quoted in the thread i´d thought everyone would have seen it….

Lead designer of the game said it:
“Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too”

see i even but italic on the important part.

i continue to be disappointed…wich gap have devs to close? why add items with better stats? you are creating ths stats gap that the actual game simply dont have!

instead of fill an illusionary stats gap, why dont fill our skill choice with new weapons and utility skills? look the real problems of the game devs, dont create new ones.

Yay new stuff!

If they continue to add new content, with new loot that includes minimal stat variances, I would be rather okay with that.

Fayte.1803:

Hrm really? They specifically said there will NEVER be any increase in gear stats? Like you heard one of them say those exact words? Cause if they only mentioned something that sounded similar its not the same, as before the manifest is NOT a contract. They are free to change and add whatever content they want to the game. I mean they created Guildwars 2 they didn’t have us harping on them and look how great it turned out.

I never suggested that their manifesto is a contract, nor that they are somehow forbidden from changing the game as they see fit. In the same spirit, I am allowed to provide my feedback.

Yes, they did say that they won’t have higher-stat gear. Most recently reiterated (to my knowledge) in a blog post by Colin Johanson a few months before release: http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success

In my opinion, their single stat plateau without a gear treadmill is one of the things that makes Guild Wars 2 so great. Without that, I am much less interested in staying with this game in the long term. It might still be great (or greater!) for others, which is fine, just not for me.

MrDmajor.7084:

I can only speak for myself. I’m not a jaded professional mmorpg player.

I’m an Engineer, I pretty much play it exclusively.

I purposely did not go after Legendary Weapons (Rifle, 2 Pistols, and Shield) because I pretty much felt like their look (especially the pistols and rifles) were ugly, and silly.

Am I correct in assuming that because I avoided these ugly weapons, that I missed out on having “the most powerful” weapon I could have in my inventory? That sort of bothers me. Maybe I’m mistaken.

From what I gathered you did miss out. Legendary weapons will be upgraded to be on par with ascended weapons. However, since they are only introducing jewelery and back ascended items in this patch, those with legendaries will have the best stat weapons in the game, until the ascended weapons patch.

Unless they will not upgrade legendaries to ascended tier until they actually release the patch with the new weapons.

camoflaugz.5031:

Fungalfoot.7213:

camoflaugz.5031:

Lots of people were complaining before that there wasn’t much end game and they left. Im on jade quarry which is usually a full server but I dont know how accurate that is. I sometimes play with an alt and its pretty painful not seeing anybody in the lower level zones. Its not even about Wow, people keep saying wow this wow that.. Its just the MMO genre itself, there is already a standard in what people expect in MMO’s and the truth is at this point the game feels handicapped in a way that you cant go any further in it. Handicapping in an MMO is pretty fail in todays standards imo. You can get away with that in a single player rgp but not an MMO. This is 2012 now MMO’s should be getting bigger and bigger. Handicapping players is not the solution. jmo

That’s funny. I can’t seem to recall any thread complaining about the lack of stat progression reaching over six thousand posts. Could it be confirmation bias?

As for handicapping players, isn’t that exactly what you’re doing by shoehorning new tiers into the game making casual players incapable of competing? Yes, I believe it is. Instead of hiding behind superior statistics try to hone your skills.

There hasn’t been any thread to my knowledge asking for new stats. There were lots about not having anything to do for endgame though. I honestly don’t mind having to get new gear as long as its not super hard to get.

I dont think its handicapping players by shoehorning new tiers. See this is what I’m trying to say, this is an MMO. people play mmo’s and worry about their own character not everybody elses. If you put in the time to get were your at then you deserve it. I for one am probably never going to be able to get a nice legendary but you know what, the people that have it deserve it no matter if they cheated coverting gems to gold or whatever, its their business not mine, im not controlling their character. If somebody has a new tier or whatever Im not gonna be mad because were not equal in power, Id say good job man you worked and put in the time for that. you deserve it.

Legendarys have the same stats. There are videos of anet saying this is how it is. If they go back on that. I don’t know what else to say about this company. I was a loyal fan. I played GW1 for over 7 years. I expect some level of respect and honesty from them. But they just keep lying to cover up other lies and according to this thread, I’m not the only one fed up with it.

Here’s my take:

They are coinciding invite-a-friend with the new content release. Now, most of us know that all of our friends who really wanted to play GW2 bought it and are or have played it. Our friends who didn’t want to play it are playing pandas or the new Rift expansion or something else. So, the way Anet is trying to hook our “friends” who didn’t already try GW2 is to give them the things missing from GW2 that are in the other games…ie. gear treadmill under the guise of “progression”

Not gonna work. They may come over for the weekend, but seriously, the ones who want to play WoW are gonna play WoW and Rift’s expac is brand new. All this is doing is messing up GW2 for the people who have already been playing.

Honestly, I wouldn’t care 2 cents what the stats were on the armor if you couldn’t wear it in wvw. However, it is only a matter of time before stepping into wvw without AS gear is like playing WoW’s bgs without heirloom gear leveling up. And with the state wvw is in right now, it doesn’t really need another strike against it.

The majority of players that wanted this barely look at forums let alone comment in them. I can’t wait for the new update and this supposed ‘infinite level’ dungeon that will keep getting updates. I assume the other 40000 views are people like me that literally laughed at all the qq in this thread. Some people tried to be logical about the new items bringing up points such as loss in versatility but you guys jump on the their throat like a pack of rabid dogs going “they lied! Look at the manifesto!; this is wow 2.0! Gear treadmill, rabble rabble rabble” Never seen such an entitled community, if you don’t like it there’s the uninstall option.

Strang.8170:

Letifer.4360:

Strang.8170:

Letifer.4360:

so at lvl 80 you already had: Basic, Fine, Masterwork, Rare and Exotic, they are all upgrades from each other no one cried about that, now they introduce Ascended which supposedly will be the last tier of gear in the game (they will just change the infusions in future content that’s it) and people freak out… makes sense.

Just like exotics were supposedly the last tier of equipment?

who said that?

Funny, with the frequency this has been quoted in the thread i´d thought everyone would have seen it….

Lead designer of the game said it:
“Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too”

see i even but italic on the important part.

They didn’t say that the rarest where Exotic…

Why ANET why? This is highly disappointing. I kittening hated gear progression in other MMOs and now you introduce this pos.

Farzo.8410:

To be honest, they should just fix all the other features they promised like guesting before creating some crap like this.

not to mention the not receiving wvw bonus bug that people havent been getting since the release of the game… that still hasnt been fixed or even looked at considering the importance and amount of people effected by it.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward.

Problem is, PvP will be effected. No, not sPvP if that’s what you are saying….since it has it’s own seperate gear sets. The problem is Wv3!!

Can you honestly say that masses of players with BiS Ascended items along with a buffed legendary weapon that does more dmg than exotics will not effect Wv3 in a very very large way? This gear becomes mandatory to play. It will break Wv3 and make it a pure gear check which is not cool.

I am not so against the ascended items as many people are… KIND OF annoying to see my 3 exotics sets on my necro become outdated so fast. The ascended items give me something to do and who knows, maybe the dungeon will be amazingly fun. Yes, I do have high hopes.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.

No one is against new content. We are against changes that completely fly in the face of multiple claims made by your team during the development of the game, including your own company president.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

You say you are not adding a gear treadmill then go on to talk about how you are adding said tier of gear that is better then anything else out there. Umm…Yeah.

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.

If you care so much about our support, why are you going ahead with a plan that goes against your very own design manifesto? I and many others bought this game because we could pick it up at any time and experience any content available to my level. I don’t care how much time you give us to get this new Ascended nonsense. The fact of the matter is you and the other developers have completely back flipped on one of the very core tenants you had but a few months ago. You are putting gear treadmills and content gating via resistance checks (a failed experiment in many other MMOs, I might add) in the very same patch and wonder why players are upset?

I don’t mind saying I feel pretty kitten foolish putting stock in all the claims this game would be different to other MMOs. I encouraged many of my friends to try and now you are trying to ram-rod in the very elements we were trying to escape.

Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores.

Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

There are plenty of “thoughts” about it right now. Just look about the forums.

As long as what he said in his post is true. Its just a barrier between exotic and legendary. If they do not intend to keep introducing new tiers of gear then its not a problem. And they have still stuck to their manifesto.

Just one more thing needs to happen. Make it available through lots of karma, and WvWvW.

Now we are into damage mitigation the devs must be scared a bit about the wrath of the players. This is worse than the bots lol.

Only took 3 days to get any bit of info and still is unclear.
I just dont believe the devs in this case and they have broken their word and foundation of the game.
People still say it is essential for PvP and all I can say is how much in the P2W shop. Cant I just buy the darn stuff now?

Xilo.9567:

As long as what he said in his post is true. Its just a barrier between exotic and legendary. If they do not intend to keep introducing new tiers of gear then its not a problem. And they have still stuck to their manifesto.

Just one more thing needs to happen. Make it available through lots of karma, and WvWvW.

What barrier? Exotics and legendaries have the same stats. Any barrier between exotics and legendaries will be created once this patch goes live.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.

Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores.

Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

First time posting on these forums, but how can you say that with a straight face whenever there is NO difference between exotics and legendary stats.

The ascended garbage with infusion is fine (even though similar mechanics failed in toher games, Radiance/Gloom LotRO), but the stat increase is wholly uncalled for.
Whoever came up with that idea at Anet should be shown the door and have their personal belongings Fed Ex’d to them.

You dun goofed on this one Anet.

fixit.7189:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward.

Problem is, PvP will be effected. No, not sPvP if that’s what you are saying….since it has it’s own seperate gear sets. The problem is Wv3!!

Can you honestly say that masses of players with BiS Ascended items along with a buffed legendary weapon that does more dmg than exotics will not effect Wv3 in a very very large way? This gear becomes mandatory to play. It will break Wv3 and make it a pure gear check which is not cool.

I feel for WvW players, now the gear grind has begun.

Xilo.9567:

As long as what he said in his post is true. Its just a barrier between exotic and legendary. If they do not intend to keep introducing new tiers of gear then its not a problem. And they have still stuck to their manifesto.

Just one more thing needs to happen. Make it available through lots of karma, and WvWvW.

The problem is, currently, there is no stat difference between exotics and legendaries. This new update creates a stat difference between exotics and legendaries.

I would be all for a new set of gear with distinct skins that are more difficult to get than exotic gear but not as difficult to get as legendary gear, if adding this new set of gear did not also entail an increase in stats.

So tell me if im wrong.

Theya re not making a treadmill. Ascended is simply to bring the gap between the exotic tier and the legendary tier.

So you are saying you are adding ANOTHER tier after ascended called legendary?!?!?!

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.

Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores.

Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

So, what you are saying here is that you are not listening to anyone and you are going to blindly shove an obvious treadmill at us disguised as “content”?

There was never supposed to be gear progression from Exotic to Legendary. Legendary was a status symbol and nothing else. You are now abandoning your design principles and trying to out market us into thinking you are doing it for our betterment. It IS a treadmill when you add in the fact that our Lvl 80 plateau for gear now slopes upward because we have to do Exotic → Ascended/Legendary to remain competitive. We didn’t need this in GW1 and we don’t need it in GW2. It’s that simple.

If you truly wanted people to not get Legendary items so quickly, then you should have made the vast majority of the items needed for it unable to be traded or bought. People have Legendary pieces now because they spent a lot of RL cash to buy gems and turn into gold, had guilds funding them, simply set their life on hold to push for that sparkle pony, or all of the above.

Dinks.2478:

camoflaugz.5031:

Fungalfoot.7213:

camoflaugz.5031:

Lots of people were complaining before that there wasn’t much end game and they left. Im on jade quarry which is usually a full server but I dont know how accurate that is. I sometimes play with an alt and its pretty painful not seeing anybody in the lower level zones. Its not even about Wow, people keep saying wow this wow that.. Its just the MMO genre itself, there is already a standard in what people expect in MMO’s and the truth is at this point the game feels handicapped in a way that you cant go any further in it. Handicapping in an MMO is pretty fail in todays standards imo. You can get away with that in a single player rgp but not an MMO. This is 2012 now MMO’s should be getting bigger and bigger. Handicapping players is not the solution. jmo

That’s funny. I can’t seem to recall any thread complaining about the lack of stat progression reaching over six thousand posts. Could it be confirmation bias?

As for handicapping players, isn’t that exactly what you’re doing by shoehorning new tiers into the game making casual players incapable of competing? Yes, I believe it is. Instead of hiding behind superior statistics try to hone your skills.

There hasn’t been any thread to my knowledge asking for new stats. There were lots about not having anything to do for endgame though. I honestly don’t mind having to get new gear as long as its not super hard to get.

I dont think its handicapping players by shoehorning new tiers. See this is what I’m trying to say, this is an MMO. people play mmo’s and worry about their own character not everybody elses. If you put in the time to get were your at then you deserve it. I for one am probably never going to be able to get a nice legendary but you know what, the people that have it deserve it no matter if they cheated coverting gems to gold or whatever, its their business not mine, im not controlling their character. If somebody has a new tier or whatever Im not gonna be mad because were not equal in power, Id say good job man you worked and put in the time for that. you deserve it.

Legendarys have the same stats. There are videos of anet saying this is how it is. If they go back on that. I don’t know what else to say about this company. I was a loyal fan. I played GW1 for over 7 years. I expect some level of respect and honesty from them. But they just keep lying to cover up other lies and according to this thread, I’m not the only one fed up with it.

sorry you feel that way. Im sure they have a good reason for doing this. I personally don’t think its gonna be bad, infact I think it will be fun. To be honest I keep hearing about this game isn’t suppose to have a grind etc. but the whole thing has been a grind for me already. 40ish k karma to get loot from orr takes work. Atleast with this new patch I can play and have a real reason as to why I got new armor other than just looks.

Letifer.4360:

Strang.8170:

Letifer.4360:

Strang.8170:

Letifer.4360:

so at lvl 80 you already had: Basic, Fine, Masterwork, Rare and Exotic, they are all upgrades from each other no one cried about that, now they introduce Ascended which supposedly will be the last tier of gear in the game (they will just change the infusions in future content that’s it) and people freak out… makes sense.

Just like exotics were supposedly the last tier of equipment?

who said that?

Funny, with the frequency this has been quoted in the thread i´d thought everyone would have seen it….

Lead designer of the game said it:
“Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too”

see i even but italic on the important part.

They didn’t say that the rarest where Exotic…

They however said that legendaries were.
They have the legendaries as the peak of gear progression, they had the same stats as exotics.
They had multiple skins that were not as expensive as legendaries but still rare, and they had same stats as exotics.
The reward at the end of the campaign is exotic.

And you tell me that exotics wasn´t supposed to be the max statted gear?

Wolfend.5287:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t exotic and legendary same stats?

What is your goal again? Change the stats of legendary? and then create a tier in between??

Please do not lie to us, or act as if you are not going back on your word.

What he’s referring to is that after you get exotic gear its just a massive grind for components to acquire a legendary weapon. This change is supposed to make progression to legendary from exotic smoother.

I have no idea how unless you can mystic forge the ascended pieces into crap you need to make a legendary, which if it made getting a legendary easier, that would be nice.

Progression in terms of cosmetic flair, vs stats.

With this change I honestly feel like I’m now forced to have legendary equipment so it can continue to be automatically upgraded to any future changes and thus allow me to avoid the progression treadmill. I don’t think this was supposed to be the point of legendary items. I’m not supposed to look at a legendary weapon and the first thing I think of is “this is GW2’s version of the USPS Forever Stamps”.

drwookie.6391:

Darx.9842:

What it does do is assure progression through a set of dungeons. You’ll have to get gear from the first to be able to do the next. Which I don’t mind.

It’s great for the people that love PvE and enjoy progression.

As for your suggestions: You haven’t played the content yet, don’t be so quick to critique.

Requiring you to do one dungeon before you do another serves what purpose? Why can’t we participate in all dungeons without grinding them in order?

Now if every dungeon had story and explorable modes PLUS “agony modes” which were for the “hardcore” then I would be fine.

Some of us want to just experience the content once and move on. I run every dungeon mode once and never again. I would be very very surprised if I could get all the ascended gear I need from just one run.

As for the stat itself…it is almost identical to radiance and dread in lotro….and that did not turn out well.

Gee with that logic.. why even have levels? Let us just go do any area we want without a level?

The achievement of getting a level, getting new gear, getting to the next area.. It can all be applied to dungeons.

Edewen.8304:

So tell me if im wrong.

Theya re not making a treadmill. Ascended is simply to bring the gap between the exotic tier and the legendary tier.

So you are saying you are adding ANOTHER tier after ascended called legendary?!?!?!

Legendary items are already in the game, but take many many hours to acquire. They currently have stats equal to exotic items. This update that adds ascended items is also going to increase the stats on the legendary items (and there has been some suggestions that they might also make the legendary items a little easier to acquire).

replicant.3620:

So, what you are saying here is that you are not listening to anyone and you are going to blindly shove an obvious treadmill at us disguised as “content”?

There was never supposed to be gear progression from Exotic to Legendary. Legendary was a status symbol and nothing else. You are now abandoning your design principles and trying to out market us into thinking you are doing it for our betterment. It IS a treadmill when you add in the fact that our Lvl 80 plateau for gear now slopes upward because we have to do Exotic -> Ascended/Legendary to remain competitive. We didn’t need this in GW1 and we don’t need it in GW2. It’s that simple.

If you truly wanted people to not get Legendary items so quickly, then you should have made the vast majority of the items needed for it unable to be traded or bought. People have Legendary pieces now because they spent a lot of RL cash to buy gems and turn into gold, had guilds funding them, simply set their life on hold to push for that sparkle pony, or all of the above.

Well said. For supposedly “listening to us” I fail to recall an awful lot of posts asking AN to drive a burning truck through the very reasons we bought this game.

Question. Why didn’t they just introduce a ton of new awesome looking skins to work for and make the new “slots” they’re putting on Ascended Gear items you could imbue to your existing Exotic Gear? Then you could put the Infusions into those.

I don’t know, but I think people would be happier seeing new weapon types, new skills, and new skins for weapon and armor rather than stat increases. Weird news.

monepipi.5160:

So, the only way for us not to get caught in this hamster wheel is to get the legendaries. What if they add in another tier after Ascended? Do you trust them enough not to do it?

Start saving up, people! you better pray to zommoros that you get the precursor!

Exactly. They have proven their word means little. What’s to say when the WoW kiddies are bored with their Ascended gear they don’t try and jam another set in to keep them amused.

I wasn’t aware that the increase in stats (what like 5%) ruins w v w because the five percent completely overtakes any strategy required in wvw. Not sure what servers you guys are in but ours is pretty competitive SBI. Also skill is required especially for those just going around trying to fight someone 1v1. I can take down people with legendaries with my blue weapons 1v1. Someone can have the best gear in the game of they want. I can have slightly worse weapons but if you can outplay them, you will win. Think first, speak later

Pochibella.8394:

Here’s my take:

They are coinciding invite-a-friend with the new content release. Now, most of us know that all of our friends who really wanted to play GW2 bought it and are or have played it. Our friends who didn’t want to play it are playing pandas or the new Rift expansion or something else. So, the way Anet is trying to hook our “friends” who didn’t already try GW2 is to give them the things missing from GW2 that are in the other games…ie. gear treadmill under the guise of “progression”

Not gonna work. They may come over for the weekend, but seriously, the ones who want to play WoW are gonna play WoW and Rift’s expac is brand new. All this is doing is messing up GW2 for the people who have already been playing.

Honestly, I wouldn’t care 2 cents what the stats were on the armor if you couldn’t wear it in wvw. However, it is only a matter of time before stepping into wvw without AS gear is like playing WoW’s bgs without heirloom gear leveling up. And with the state wvw is in right now, it doesn’t really need another strike against it.

Agree!

It will deter people without /insert-new-gear-tier-here/ and have detrimental effects on WvWvW, not to mention the gate it will set for /insert-new-dungeons-and-areas-here/

I took a three or four year break from gw1 and was still competitive when I got back and could still do all the content in the game. The level cap was never raised and stats were never boosted. I still used the first set of level 20 armor I got in prophecies through eye of the north.

If anet was actually listening like they said they were they would make ascended gear cosmetic and not make a new tier. Guild wars is supposed to be the one mmo where getting better appearance is placed over getting better stats. Most of the people who I know play this came to gw2 to get away from chasing stats.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.
Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

You have no idea how relieved I am to hear that. I was really worried about the direction the game was taking.
Sorry about the communal flip out. We really like this game. A lot. And when things get changed, we get scared. Because it may not work like it used to. Especially when it treads so close to the paths of other MMOs, which spiral higher and higher with bigger numbers and more commitment. But one more tier of gear is alright. We can live with it.

So, thanks for posting, and putting fears to rest. Sorry, about what’s been said, and sorry about what will probably be said, at least until people calm down. Looking forward to Lost Shores!

Something really needs to be said on how this is going to effect WvW. None of us want to do PvE to get our best gear all over again and again as new best items are released. Is this gear going to be obtainable by PvP’ing? Are badge drops/prices going to be addressed to make the time needed to acquire gear closer to that of PvE? Will there be a range of options in stat combinations as opposed to just the power/toughness/vitality set?

A majority of people upset about this are PvP players who feel we are being forced into PvE to remain competitive. Some answers for the WvW community would be greatly appreciated.

Primal Zed.9714:

Fayte.1803:

Hrm really? They specifically said there will NEVER be any increase in gear stats? Like you heard one of them say those exact words? Cause if they only mentioned something that sounded similar its not the same, as before the manifest is NOT a contract. They are free to change and add whatever content they want to the game. I mean they created Guildwars 2 they didn’t have us harping on them and look how great it turned out.

I never suggested that their manifesto is a contract, nor that they are somehow forbidden from changing the game as they see fit. In the same spirit, I am allowed to provide my feedback.

Yes, they did say that they won’t have higher-stat gear. Most recently reiterated (to my knowledge) in a blog post by Colin Johanson a few months before release: http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success

In my opinion, their single stat plateau without a gear treadmill is one of the things that makes Guild Wars 2 so great. Without that, I am much less interested in staying with this game in the long term. It might still be great (or greater!) for others, which is fine, just not for me.

Hrm yes I read that blog to, allow me to pull a part of it,

Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

They don’t need to make gear treadmills, they just now chose to do it, its optional, your not being forced to grind for it, and those that will might have a slight advantage over others, but a game the boasts the skill of a player this shouldn’t make a whole lot of difference right? Seriously you guys are blowing this way out of proportion.

Amulrei.4973:

replicant.3620:

So, what you are saying here is that you are not listening to anyone and you are going to blindly shove an obvious treadmill at us disguised as “content”?

There was never supposed to be gear progression from Exotic to Legendary. Legendary was a status symbol and nothing else. You are now abandoning your design principles and trying to out market us into thinking you are doing it for our betterment. It IS a treadmill when you add in the fact that our Lvl 80 plateau for gear now slopes upward because we have to do Exotic -> Ascended/Legendary to remain competitive. We didn’t need this in GW1 and we don’t need it in GW2. It’s that simple.

If you truly wanted people to not get Legendary items so quickly, then you should have made the vast majority of the items needed for it unable to be traded or bought. People have Legendary pieces now because they spent a lot of RL cash to buy gems and turn into gold, had guilds funding them, simply set their life on hold to push for that sparkle pony, or all of the above.

Well said. For supposedly “listening to us” I fail to recall an awful lot of posts asking AN to drive a burning truck through the very reasons we bought this game.

It’s not even about that, it wasn’t supposed to be this way from the start. 2 years ago they promised none of this, and now they’re going against it. If GW2 can’t fill it’s promise, what other future MMO can? It makes me feel like I really can’t trust MMO developers anymore, since I thought that Anet is the ONE company that will actually change the direction of this genre.

Letifer.4360:

Never.6014:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.

Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores.

Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

So how about a straight up answer? Will you ever add gear with stats higher than Ascended gear? Yes or No

Yes. Legendary Armor sets. lol

No, they have the same stats as Ascended. But will they add a new Super-Ascended tier in the future (not 3 months, but a year or something) that will raise Legendaries again?

Strang.8170:

Letifer.4360:

Strang.8170:

Letifer.4360:

Strang.8170:

Letifer.4360:

so at lvl 80 you already had: Basic, Fine, Masterwork, Rare and Exotic, they are all upgrades from each other no one cried about that, now they introduce Ascended which supposedly will be the last tier of gear in the game (they will just change the infusions in future content that’s it) and people freak out… makes sense.

Just like exotics were supposedly the last tier of equipment?

who said that?

Funny, with the frequency this has been quoted in the thread i´d thought everyone would have seen it….

Lead designer of the game said it:
“Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too”

see i even but italic on the important part.

They didn’t say that the rarest where Exotic…

They however said that legendaries were.
They have the legendaries as the peak of gear progression, they had the same stats as exotics.
They had multiple skins that were not as expensive as legendaries but still rare, and they had same stats as exotics.
The reward at the end of the campaign is exotic.

And you tell me that exotics wasn´t supposed to be the max statted gear?

They also said that Legendary weapons weren’t finished, people just assumed they where just talking about aesthetics.

Amra.6028:

Lifelike.5862:

DootmasterX.3025:

Lifelike.5862:

Seeing Anet take back it’s stupid, unrealistic design principles in favor of more tired and true MMO mechanics pleases me greatly. I’ll be enjoying the new content while the rest of the sorry excuse for a playerbase makes mountains out of molehills.

Well look at the positives people, they made this guy (who is totally polite and nice) happy! Huzzah!

It’s difficult to be polite and nice when you have to sift through this many pages of naysayers and negativity, all complaining about the same thing. If it’s that much of a big deal, then why don’t people just go back to Guild Wars 1? Oh of course, because that game is outdated, and as much as people might praise it over GW2, it’s always difficult to return to the older game.

Another example of why progression appeals to basic human nature, and why it’s not necessarily a bad thing.

And yes, I am pretty happy that we’re getting new content and a new tier of gear to aim for. I haven’t even gotten full exotics for most of my characters, and now I can relax and farm it at my leasure knowing that I have another tier to work towards once I’m done with my exotics.

Why are you even here? Why did this game appeal to you, elitist circlejerking ultr4h4rdc0r3 gamer?

I already answered that in another post.

Because it has more content and better systems than TERA. I don’t play WoW, and I’ll never go back to Ragnarok ever again because the cash shop has spoiled that game too much, making it more expensive than I can afford.

If Tera would upgrade content to include more items, better crafting, more mmo-esque conditions (GW2 has a very nice condition damage system), then yes, I would gladly go back to TERA in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, GW2 is better than Tera right now, and that’s not really saying much. This game has a lot of really great points that I feel are a fine step forward in the MMO genre, however it’s also very lacking in areas that most dedicated MMO players would agree are mandatory.

I also don’t see this change as solving any problems. Eventually people will have ascended gear and those who complain about progression will still be complaining. The only difference is that you ended up selling out your original philosophy for nothing. You can not dip your proverbial toe into the progression pool and expect anyone to be pleased – it’s either all in or not at all.

I would say that you have to take a stand, but I thought you had already taken one at launch.

The issue for me (ignoring adding a tier, as per the topic), is that agony is kitten near pointless. Its something that you just ignore.

As described in the blog/wiki, all you do is get some infused gear, and wear it. Job done. Double click the armor, double click the infusion, click the armor to slot it.

When a player goes to play a dungeon, they don’t even have to think about Agony while fighting. It’s just there. Chipping off 10%, 4%, 23% health a second? Who cares, there is nothing you can do about it. You can’t dodge it, block it, or remove it. It just sits there. Sure, when the dungeon is done, or in the hub, you might check for gear drops, and slot some infusion, but that is it.

And now you cannot use your current exotics. Or your dungeon armor. Sure, you can transmute it to look the same, but the actual dungeon gear is now just another old tier of armor, that is useless, other than by getting fine transmutation stones and stealing the looks. This is probably the weakest point, since dungeon armors were still just cosmetic, but they might as well remove the stat variations and make them like the HoM items now.