Guild Wars 2

I would never have crafted exotic jewels for some of my characters if I knew they were going to become obsolete. What a waste of ectos. This is why I am against gear treadmills- I want to get best in slot equipment ONCE for all my characters and then just have fun playing the game. Re-grinding better gear is a crappy experience. I will especially be QQing once my dungeon armor sets become obsolete.

Maybe I am an odd person.

But why does the gear need to have better stats to feel like you have progress?

Wouldn’t a new cool looking set of armor with the same stats still give you something to work towards?

Wouldn’t new back pieces that look cool still be something to work towards?

Wouldn’t killing new harder bosses and completing new dungeons be something to work towards?

Wouldn’t new dynamic events and quest be something to work towards?

Wouldn’t exploring the new map be something to work towards?

Wouldn’t doing new jump challenges be something to work towards?

So If that is all added in…why do you feel the need for “better” gear?
Are you playing the game for the fun or for the gear?

tkalamba.2541:

The gap has nothing to do with stats, but the time investment from getting a exotic vs a Legendary. You can get your full set of Exotic armour in about 3 days after hitting level 80. Likely sooner if you knew what you were doing, solely through regular play. Legendaries on the other hand require a rather large time/resource investment. There is such a large gap inbetween. They are giving players something to work towards in the end game. I had all my exotic (minus jewellery, never bothered) before I even finished my personal story.

I understand and agree with this, but why the stat boost? They could have achieved this without a boost in stats very easily.

Azjenco.9425:

143 pages…

All I can say is, people have been clamoring for meaningful end level progression since release. And now here it is. If you dislike it, then be careful what you wish for, I guess…

I havent been. I liked grinding for cosmetics, rather than statistics. This is what I was told Id be doing, not for gear upgrades after I had what I thought was a max stat set.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Norida.8692:

Just wanted to say that on my server (Vizunah Square) you do not hear many whining about the Ascended gear in game, except for those who do nothing but WVW.

Also yeah, i hope the dev do not forget that those who are happy with the new content unfortunately do not post often (like me) we prefer to play which is i think one way to testify our love to your game so keep up the good work.

You don’t hear any in mine…

…until you mention it.

Then they start whispering you, asking what’s this new thing, and then some go search in google and the official site news about it, and then the “what the hell? Are they serious?” discussions start, with the must-have trolling lines here and there of those that will say “Oh! Great!” just to piss off everyone else (You will ALWAYS have those “Do not affect me/I don’t care, so make it worse” trolls, after any controversial or unfair change).

Turns out, most people have no idea about the issue, so of course they won’t complain about it.
Out of sight, out of mind.

Funny that you mention this because i did it this morning, and you know what ? at LA it was about 5 or 6 person happy against only 1 unhappy (and at that time we weren’t even aware that the ascended gear was going to be available in wvw).

Greep.6394:

AcidicVision.5498:

Turtle Dragon.9241:

We are about to leave this extraordinary MMO that you took 5 years to create…and never come back or hear from you again.

Last night I went through this thread and just picked out a few posts (5) of people saying they felt betrayed, quit, and were never coming back. I added them to my friends list.

By 12am EST four out of those five had signed in and were wandering around in various areas I can only assume having a grand old time.

The thing about people that are fed up and leave is that most of them just do it. There is no compulsion to post some raging fit on the forums and then give your account away. Any emotional investment is gone and with it the urge to let everyone know their feelings are hurt.

Anyway, if you ever wonder why the droves of players declaring “I quit” on forums never causes a dev to shake in their boots…it’s because it’s a largely empty threat.

So rather than cry wolf in a thread hoping that it will change something, why not just play and enjoy the game and see how the content launch goes? In the end you look less silly because you never know how many people out of curiosity will want to call you on your BS and see if you stick to your convictions or were just blowing smoke.

2 possible reasons

1) They’re enjoying their last moments of GW2. You certainly aren’t locked out of the current content with ascended are you? But they will not be buying gems or getting expansions, or getting this ascended junk. If they have a free game, there’s no reason not to enjoy the free stuff they currently have. Personally, I do not fit here, since this whole thing disgusts me to the point of not even wanting to play.

2) Giving away items to guildees. This would be my reason. I’ve got a load of junk to give away now, and some of it’s tied up in large buy orders coming in from the tp, so it’ll take a while to fully get rid of.

Or simply they are using something they payed for!
I feel betrayed too, and im continue to play, until the next expansion (or if a havent another game to try), but the fact is that simply that persons, will spend no more money on this experience.

Azjenco.9425:

143 pages…

All I can say is, people have been clamoring for meaningful end level progression since release. And now here it is. If you dislike it, then be careful what you wish for, I guess…

Let’s get something straight:

People who came here from GW1, the fans of ArenaNet who have been excited about the game for the last 5 years, have not been asking for stat progression. We have understood that the philosophy of Guild Wars is to have an easily obtainable stat ceiling where players are equally geared and then the effort becomes about being a better or more strategic player.

There may have been many people asking for stat progression or better items, but they are not the groupies. They are not the fanboys. They are the people who are now pandas off in a different world

I personally played Guild Wars 1 from it’s release and loved it, but that doesn’t mean I’m not going to enjoy the hell out of some extra content and 2 new STEPS in the gear progression.

Loosifah.4739:

I find it quite hilarious that people thought the exotic armor that’s so easy to get would be the final tier of equipment and that they’d never have any new better equipment to get that might actually take some effort other than “I made moneyz”. The game’s been out for all of 3 months and you thought you’d never have to do any more work for future content?

I personally welcome the new content. Especially since they’ve defined that the gear progression WILL end as Rare -> Exotic -> Ascended -> Legendary.

Also the fact that Ascended has fixed stats no capable of normal upgrades balances it out so that it’s pretty steady with exotic anyways.

That’s how GW1 was, and how ANET let everyone believe this game would be as well. I don’t think there would be any furor if ANET had communicated that exotic was not the highest tier stat-wise from the beginning. Creating a new tier of gear at this point in time is really pointless- they could have allowed existing armor to be infused just the same.

"

Gear progression i love you!
More and more progression plz!
Give me reasons to play!

Arenas and pvp gear progression is what i´m missing!"

. . . Well, ANet is most likely killing PvE off on the 16th, why not screw up sPvP too! = D

Pants.8315:

A treadmill implies it’ll keep going. If you read the blog post, they say that they intended to add one set. Ascended gear. One set = a step, not a treadmill.

They also stated that the harder to obtain “rarer” ascended items will have added +Agony residence. So apart from the original items (which have also been stated to be attainable outside of the dungeon in the future), there is no need to keep repeating the content to get better ascended items unless you want to.

Completely optional; once the full compliment of Ascended items have been added to the game, PvE and WvWvW, then unless you want extra +agony resistance, which is only useful in that one dungeon, you never have to set foot in dungeons.

It’s one extra set, that contains a slot that has the potential to add repeatable dungeon content for those that want to improve their +agony resistance and infusions, whilst not alienating those that don’t want anything more than a basic set of ascended gear but have no intention of running a dungeon, because if your not running the dungeon then the gated agony additions are entirely irrelevant.

They clearly stated that their goal is to create an extra level of progression between Exotics and Legendary items. Not keep creating better and better tiers. The ascended items contain a slot that is only useful in a repeatable scaling dungeon, giving repeatable content for those that enjoy that. The post said it will be obtainable in other ways, meaning you never have to set foot in that dungeon once extra avenues are introduced to get the gear.

It is purely horizontal and actually quiet clever. Introducing a set of gear with a slot that allows entirely optional extra content if people want it.

Having said all of that. I still cannot work out why it has a stat increase

Well, they said exo would be the cap …. do you really believe the whole plan is just a step?

If they can make a new tier for those who are boring and need something to grind, they will NEED to make another tier for those people again.

Vytality.3195:

…
A broken hearted ex-fan.

I love that your guild is Spirit of Faith, and your tag is HOPE, yet you are supposedly abandoning a game based on an update and content you haven’t even played yet.

Even after Chris came in here and said Ascended was the last tier that will be added for mechanical reasons and to avoid it being a gear grind they are rolling it out a few pieces at a time so even casual players can get it at a comfortable pace rather than farming it out. There will not be another tier added. Done. We got our clarification.

If people have forgotten what a tread-mill is, it’s a thing you run on forever and never get anywhere. A new intermediate type of gear that is introduced piece by piece to mitigate grind/farm while being introduced does not a treadmill make.

What is clear from reading through a lot of these posts is there are indeed two camps.

GW1 veterans and bored of Pandas WoW veterans.

Shamefully, Anet are catering to the later

From everything I’ve read the new ascended armor has higher base stats because you can’t rune/orb them up to give them a stat increase. Therefore they’re only really useful for the infusion slot to prevent agony in the dungeon.

Galen Grey.4709:

Baron Von Graymouse.7801:

The new additions in November are just the start of our item progression initiative. We’re going to add tons of new high-level content to Guild Wars 2 in the future. As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended and Legendary items (to say nothing of the other rewards you can earn by playing the content).

Yes I did notice the statement “complimentary Ascended and Legendary items” but its really puzzling to me. I mean It is entirely possible they forsaw the WvW issue and planned to give a basic Ascended set to everyone (though then why legendary items?)

I really would love a clarification on this. unfortuntely with this level of panic I am afraid we’ll have to wait a bit before we hear statements on this

Galen, with all the drama that is going on around us most people here probably haven’t read what the DEVs said. In elementary school we played this game that all the students in the class stands in a line at the front of the class room (20+ kids) so the teacher would whisper a sentence in the first students ear and then tell the student to whisper it to the classmate next to him. By the time the last student got the message the teacher asked the student to write what was whispered to him on the blackboard (yeah I know I am old) and it was always a completly different sentence then what the teacher whispered to the first kid. Basically, what I am saying is that is what has happened here. Most people on here didn’t bother to read the blog from the dev but only heard about this Ascended armor from word of mouth. Of course things are going to be some things that get twisted or re-worded because that person only heard what he/she wanted to hear. There is a lot of info in what the DEVs posted but most of if fell on deaf ears. I have nothing against this patch and I am looking forward to it and the new challenges it brings to the table.

I too am very intrested in what she means by complimentary items. I am just glad that another level headed person is reading this fiasco of over-reacting that we have no control over anyway so why get upset?

Tyr.1965:

I’ve calmed down a bit since spending all day monitoring this thread yesterday, having been vehemently against this new tier. Mr. Whiteside’s post has a self-contradicting tone at first glance, but I’m beginning to understand where they are coming from with this decision.

ArenaNet made a mistake in balancing the tiers that are already in the game. They made exotics far too easy to obtain in relation to legendary weapons. Both items are equal in power but nowhere near equal in time, effort, and resources to acquire. There is virtually no prestige at all to exotic armor yet a ton of prestige in legendary weapons. When they eventually release legendary armor, it would have been the same case. There is a very extreme gap right now.

What they want to do, is make Ascendant gear be what Exotic gear was supposed to be. Ascended will take longer to acquire than Exotic, the way that Exotic was supposed to take longer to acquire than Rare gear. However, it still won’t take as long to acquire as legendary armor and weapons, which will be eventually scaled up to Ascended level once Ascended weapons are introduced.

Of course, Ascended has to be better than Exotic because Exotic is better than Rare and Rare is better than Masterwork, and so on. We have to think of Ascended as being the new Exotic because ArenaNet simply failed to make Exotic gear live up to its name.

Many players want to work towards something but don’t necessarily want to take the big plunge from Exotic to Legendary status. This new tier will give us all something to work towards over time. When all the Ascended gear is finally in the game, we’ll look back and feel a sense of accomplishment that many of us didnt feel with Exotics and perhaps then, more of us will start working towards Legendary gear.

I know it’s all scarey and it really wants to feel like ArenaNet is turning their backs on us, but take an objective step back and breathe. All they’re trying to do is fix their initial mistake and make the last tier of gear before Legendary take a bit more time to obtain. It wouldn’t seem nearly as scarey if all this were in place at launch.

I won’t get into the Agony mechanic and the resistance gear they’re adding. I personally think that is a stupid, boring, lazy, outdated, and historically unsuccessful mechanic. It is far from eloquent and I hope they reconsider. But in regards to the new tier, I see it as a necessary fix to a system they didnt quite get right from launch.

I think now I can relax and log back into the game and give them a chance. I’m definitely going to be extremely hesitant to spend another dime in the gem store in the immediate future because ANet has handled this entire debacle very, very poorly. Sometimes the community just needs straight-forward explanations instead of convoluted public relations spins and we didn’t get that here, which only added fuel to the fire. But I understand why they’re doing what they’re doing; I just wish they got it right from the start and didn’t have to do this. Let’s hope the road forward is less rocky than it is today.

I hope more people read this, because it makes perfect sense, it’s logical, calm, eloquent and use the information we’ve been given wisely. Thanks, made me think of other points I missed when considering my own posts.

Norida.8692:

Just wanted to say that on my server (Vizunah Square) you do not hear many whining about the Ascended gear in game, except for those who do nothing but WVW.

Also yeah, i hope the dev do not forget that those who are happy with the new content unfortunately do not post often (like me) we prefer to play which is i think one way to testify our love to your game so keep up the good work.

I’m not happy with the idea of Ascended gear, and I didn’t post until it was revealed, so this really goes both ways.

Nyspar.6103:

RamzaBehoulve.5640:

Lothair.8942:

I wish someone would go through 140 pages of this and add up the number of unique responders not agreeing with the change compared to those agreeing. Too bad I have a full time job!

The vast majority of the ones agreeing are not posting, they just had a smile after reading the news and are playing.

I’m one of those people who welcomes to ascended gear. The reason is simple, it gives me a new goal to work toward.

I’ve reached the end’est (yes I made up a word) game you can possible be at.
-I’ve done sPvP to rank 28
-I’ve got 2 lvl 80 Characters
-I’ve got the commander tag
-I’ve got full exotics for both my characters
-I’ve got a legendary weapon

For me the only things to do now are: sPvP or WvW.

This ascended gear patch will give me a reason to do more PVE and also gives me a new goal to work towards

Over 1000 hours played
3 level 80s
2 have 100% map completion
Pretty much full exotics
Every crafting profession at 400 except Armorcrafting, Only 3 were done before hitting 80.
Done all jumping puzzles

Yet I am far from done.
People like you will get bored again after you finish the next content update and complain about being bored again.

Developers need to realise there are more ways to progress than gear.

Also to set one thing straight. Most of us who are enjoying the new content update coming out never played that horrible game WoW.

I know I personally never touched it, granted I’ve played plenty of other amazing games that have gear progression to them.

Loosifah.4739:

From everything I’ve read the new ascended armor has higher base stats because you can’t rune/orb them up to give them a stat increase. Therefore they’re only really useful for the infusion slot to prevent agony in the dungeon.

Take a look at the stats posted in the screenshot of the developer post. The stats on the ascended item are higher than that of the exotic plus it’s exotic jewel.

jakep.9572:

I would absolutely agree with you if that were at all how prestige worked in Guild Wars. In GW1, prestige wasn’t about stats, it was about cosmetics. You could spend hundreds of hours grinding to get armor from the Fissure of Woe because it was the coolest and most expensive armor and everyone would look up to you, but it wasn’t a single point more powerful than the armor you could buy for 5k and some mats from a vendor. The legendaries in this game, while not something I’m interested in, are a perfect example of ANet doing ANet’s thing. Gear that is ridiculously hard to get but not any better statwise is exactly what we need. We don’t need new gear that’s both harder to get and better than what we already have.

If they had said two months ago, “hey, we’re not done with the tiers yet, we’re adding better armor later” I wouldn’t have put so much effort into getting full exotics. I feel like I’ve wasted a ton of time, not just on gearing up my character but also waiting for a game to come out that decided three months after launch to do a 180 on its core philosophy. I’ve been playing Guild Wars since Nightfall came out. I like ANet’s gaming manifesto. I don’t know why it has to change

I totally agree with you. It sucks. I still don’t like this change at all, but I understand why they’re doing it. It’s definitely a step away from Guild Wars 1 in that they’re trying to broaden their appeal to a larger player base and it’s already starting to backfire on them. They’ve lost the faith of their core fans with this move and it’s hard to get that back.

I can live with it for now. I can also not give them a dime moving forward. All the people they’re trying to appeal to won’t be giving them a dime either. They’re buying their gems with gold, and now the rest of us will be too.

Nyspar.6103:

This ascended gear patch will give me a reason to do more PVE and also gives me a new goal to work towards

The patch by adding new content will by its very nature give new things to do. I understand where you’re coming from with the "new goal", but I think it to be a poor implementation. I would prefer no stat increase, and a new story driven dungeon in FotM that requires a one time "infusion" that is the reward of an epic journey told through the game world.

Do you think stat increases are necessary for a new goal, or is earning infusion enough for you? Would you rather earn infusion through repetitive dungeon runs and a mystic forge recipe, or would it be more meaningful if there were an epic quest* around the map with challenging objectives that culminated in infusion that allowed you to do FotM.

You have your legendary so I take it you don’t pursue goals for stat increases. Having your legendary, would you have preferred it be the system as is, or would an epic journey, as described above, have been a better system for acquiring it?

* - I don’t know if you played WoW, but one of my "legendary achievments" was getting my Paladin’s charger mount. Think of something like that for epic quest.

Loosifah.4739:

I personally played Guild Wars 1 from it’s release and loved it, but that doesn’t mean I’m not going to enjoy the hell out of some extra content and 2 new STEPS in the gear progression.

Content? Yes, please.
Gear progression in a game marketed to not have gear progression? No thanks. I prefer the companies I can trust.

jakep.9572:

Azjenco.9425:

143 pages…

All I can say is, people have been clamoring for meaningful end level progression since release. And now here it is. If you dislike it, then be careful what you wish for, I guess…

Let’s get something straight:

People who came here from GW1, the fans of ArenaNet who have been excited about the game for the last 5 years, have not been asking for stat progression. We have understood that the philosophy of Guild Wars is to have an easily obtainable stat ceiling where players are equally geared and then the effort becomes about being a better or more strategic player.

There may have been many people asking for stat progression or better items, but they are not the groupies. They are not the fanboys. They are the people who are now pandas off in a different world

Yes people were complaining about lack of things to do after they hit 80.
But i can assure you not all of them meant stat progression.

Have you seen all the numerous “I hate Orr!” threads?
If you’re not an alter and not a PvPer and you happen to dislike Orr (look into those threads for reason), there is indeed precious for you to do.
But it doesn’t necessarly mean every one wanted stat progression!

This update, and the future updates, were supposed to fix it by adding more diverse content. Not stat upgrades!

Yes, there was a “time” gap between obtaining Exotics and Legendaries.
Yes, some people felt that the game only offered long-term goals after lvl 80 and obtaining gear. But why do you assume every one of them meant stat progression here, too?

Sit down and look at the amount and types of goals GW2 offered right now:
-pvp goals
-exploration goals
-money sink goals

Most goals were money sinks, so if you wanted a long-term goal (Legendary), there was almost no short- or medium- term goal that could go in synergy with it, because the money you would spend on shorter term goals could go onto the long term.
That was a problem. Stat progression is nowhere here.

New content would fix lack of places to go for lvl 80 non-alters.
More diverse goals (Polumock? Bar brawl or other mini-games?) could help with the synergy with long-term goal.
Adjusting precursors would make the gap smaller for a lot of people.

To sum it up, the introduction of vertical progression was totally uncalled for!

Masaki.2153:

What is clear from reading through a lot of these posts is there are indeed two camps.

GW1 veterans and bored of Pandas WoW veterans.

Shamefully, Anet are catering to the later

I really don’t think the MMO market can be so clearly defined. It isn’t that black and white, you can’t segregate your player base into 2 categories and aim to please one of them, and I really don’t think ANet have, there’s plenty more content in this patch than just a couple of rings and a back slot.

Loosifah.4739:

From everything I’ve read the new ascended armor has higher base stats because you can’t rune/orb them up to give them a stat increase. Therefore they’re only really useful for the infusion slot to prevent agony in the dungeon.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusion

Where is stated that infusion work only for dungeon? i see only that infuse an item give an innate agony resistance, but we don know if the infusion effect give us something like rune or sigils effects that can be used outside dungeons!
So we have all the right to enrage because the information we have are NOT CLEAR. Is useless to complain when the update its already UP… After an update you have only the option to rage quit!

They did properly respond to this thread. Just not IN the thread. Read the announcement.

Tyr.1965:

I’ve calmed down a bit since spending all day monitoring this thread yesterday, having been vehemently against this new tier. Mr. Whiteside’s post has a self-contradicting tone at first glance, but I’m beginning to understand where they are coming from with this decision.

ArenaNet made a mistake in balancing the tiers that are already in the game. They made exotics far too easy to obtain in relation to legendary weapons. Both items are equal in power but nowhere near equal in time, effort, and resources to acquire. There is virtually no prestige at all to exotic armor yet a ton of prestige in legendary weapons. When they eventually release legendary armor, it would have been the same case. There is a very extreme gap right now.

What they want to do, is make Ascendant gear be what Exotic gear was supposed to be. Ascended will take longer to acquire than Exotic, the way that Exotic was supposed to take longer to acquire than Rare gear. However, it still won’t take as long to acquire as legendary armor and weapons, which will be eventually scaled up to Ascended level once Ascended weapons are introduced.

Of course, Ascended has to be better than Exotic because Exotic is better than Rare and Rare is better than Masterwork, and so on. We have to think of Ascended as being the new Exotic because ArenaNet simply failed to make Exotic gear live up to its name.

Many players want to work towards something but don’t necessarily want to take the big plunge from Exotic to Legendary status. This new tier will give us all something to work towards over time. When all the Ascended gear is finally in the game, we’ll look back and feel a sense of accomplishment that many of us didnt feel with Exotics and perhaps then, more of us will start working towards Legendary gear.

I know it’s all scarey and it really wants to feel like ArenaNet is turning their backs on us, but take an objective step back and breathe. All they’re trying to do is fix their initial mistake and make the last tier of gear before Legendary take a bit more time to obtain. It wouldn’t seem nearly as scarey if all this were in place at launch.

I won’t get into the Agony mechanic and the resistance gear they’re adding. I personally think that is a stupid, boring, lazy, outdated, and historically unsuccessful mechanic. It is far from eloquent and I hope they reconsider. But in regards to the new tier, I see it as a necessary fix to a system they didnt quite get right from launch.

I think now I can relax and log back into the game and give them a chance. I’m definitely going to be extremely hesitant to spend another dime in the gem store in the immediate future because ANet has handled this entire debacle very, very poorly. Sometimes the community just needs straight-forward explanations instead of convoluted public relations spins and we didn’t get that here, which only added fuel to the fire. But I understand why they’re doing what they’re doing; I just wish they got it right from the start and didn’t have to do this. Let’s hope the road forward is less rocky than it is today.

These are my thoughts too. Oversight by AN that they’re trying to correct but have portrayed it in a poor manor. Well written post, wish it would be nearer the top unlike some of the other ones here.

Walle.6087:

I enjoying playing a game I do not enjoy grinding to have the ability to play the game. Sadly this update is going to make me quit.

I think that’s the problem many people have complaining about this update.

However I also find that alot of people don’t see the scope this update brings the new gear nad infusion and stats into and start to speculate.

I also see alot of people put gear as the number 1 deal breaker of the game.
I find it weird to say, “Im not gonna play this game, because I want the secure feeling of having maximum armor all the time, if I can’t have that I can’t play.”

To be honest, I dont even have the maximum of maximum stats right now in the game, yet I probably played way to much already. I got 3k achievement points, I’ve seen alot of the game, and I say that gear is the least interesting thing in this game. As long as i can get the increase in stats in a reasonable time span

I don’t like stats for gameplay as much as the next player, but I do love the world of Guild Wars 2. I didn’t play GW1 because there was no gear increase nor did I start playing GW2 for that reason. I want those dynamic events, and expand on actual world/events content. To be honest even the areas could be alot more dense with events. I’m still very enthousiastic about the no end-game idea where every area gets updated and evolved over time. I already seen some areas change over time.

NPCs “building” new areas. Lion’s arch having 6 inactive gates to new cities that are to come. Divinity’s reach having the sinkhole where there will be content one day. (hopefully) That is the content I want to see, and will see. That is the stuff I actually care about.

If they feel they need to put in gear with better stats so people have something to go for, I find that idea wrong. Content over numbers.

I don’t know what they will do with the infusion slots and agony. I can speculate for the best and for the worst. Right now it’s limited to rings and backpieces, and agony is limited to deeper levels of a dungeon. I mean, you can still do the dungeon, except without infused gear you wont be able to go deeper into the same content. Gear that enables hardmode. That seems alright to me. I can live with that

As long as no one is locked out of content or needs to grind the infused gear, I see no problem. So far with this update, there is no content locked, other than dungeon levels of a harder difficulty, which will be more of a challenge. I’m sure the first 20 levels (of 9 fractals, which means you’ll be repeating fractals already) can be done without infused gear. Otherwise the dungeon will be inaccessible from the start.

If they force me to get the ascended gear to get to content, then that will be a bad thing. But no sooner. I’m not gonna stop playing merely because a few numbers are gonna increase a bit. I was playing for the events , the scenery, the funny NPCs. Because that is in the end what makes Guild Wars… Guild Wars. For me.
So Gear that enables Hardmode. I’m ok with that.

i think this game needs something to keep it interesting. i wouldn’t mind another gear for PVE as something to do. i do however like the thought of keeping wvwvw exotic only. PVP should stick to the balance it has with easy to aquire exotics.

Ganzo.5079:

Loosifah.4739:

From everything I’ve read the new ascended armor has higher base stats because you can’t rune/orb them up to give them a stat increase. Therefore they’re only really useful for the infusion slot to prevent agony in the dungeon.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusion

Where is stated that infusion work only for dungeon? i see only that infuse an item give an innate agony resistance, but we don know if the infusion effect give us something like rune or sigils effects that can be used outside dungeons!
So we have all the right to enrage because the information we have are NOT CLEAR. Is useless to complain when the update its already UP… After an update you have only the option to rage quit!

Not only that.
It’s instead perfectly clear that exotic gear can’t be infused and therefore used in all the upcoming content (which will go well beyond this single patch) which will require infusions.

Rhyaehar.9504:

jakep.9572:

Azjenco.9425:

143 pages…

All I can say is, people have been clamoring for meaningful end level progression since release. And now here it is. If you dislike it, then be careful what you wish for, I guess…

Let’s get something straight:

People who came here from GW1, the fans of ArenaNet who have been excited about the game for the last 5 years, have not been asking for stat progression. We have understood that the philosophy of Guild Wars is to have an easily obtainable stat ceiling where players are equally geared and then the effort becomes about being a better or more strategic player.

There may have been many people asking for stat progression or better items, but they are not the groupies. They are not the fanboys. They are the people who are now pandas off in a different world

Yes people were complaining about lack of things to do after they hit 80.
But i can assure you not all of them meant stat progression.

Have you seen all the numerous “I hate Orr!” threads?
If you’re not an alter and not a PvPer and you happen to dislike Orr (look into those threads for reason), there is indeed precious for you to do.
But it doesn’t necessarly mean every one wanted stat progression!

This update, and the future updates, were supposed to fix it by adding more diverse content. Not stat upgrades!

Yes, there was a “time” gap between obtaining Exotics and Legendaries.
Yes, some people felt that the game only offered long-term goals after lvl 80 and obtaining gear. But why do you assume every one of them meant stat progression here, too?

Sit down and look at the amount and types of goals GW2 offered right now:
-pvp goals
-exploration goals
-money sink goals

Most goals were money sinks, so if you wanted a long-term goal (Legendary), there was almost no short- or medium- term goal that could go in synergy with it, because the money you would spend on shorter term goals could go onto the long term.
That was a problem. Stat progression is nowhere here.

New content would fix lack of places to go for lvl 80 non-alters.
More diverse goals (Polumock? Bar brawl or other mini-games?) could help with the synergy with long-term goal.
Adjusting precursors would make the gap smaller for a lot of people.

To sum it up, the introduction of vertical progression was totally uncalled for!

My original post had a nasty tone, so I’ll clarify: I don’t think there were no legitimate complaints. I’m not a huge fan of Orr myself. What I meant was that there were a huge number of fans who, while they may have wanted more horizontal progression, understood ANet’s model of content and updates and accepted the fact that gear progression is not the answer. At the same time I’ve seen a lot of posts here and on reddit from ex-WoW players saying they hate the game because they feel like they have no more points to put into their character. Those people don’t get it, and those are the people ANet is catering to now. It’s disappointing

All this talk about getting new gear, what’s wrong with how Guild Wars 1 did it? You brought something to someone and they used that something to infuse your armor and ‘ascend’ it?

Isn’t that how you could stand up against the Mursaat’s most deadly attack?

In that scenario the newly introduced gear is not the issue and can be kept as a new set of cool new skins. The item needed to infuse existing armor however would be new but could be applied to any existing set of armor; giving it the ‘Ascended’ marker on the tooltip. Then an ‘Infusion’ slot could be added next to that, with varying levels of resistance to this Agony effect.

So let’s say infusing 1 piece of armor would provide +10% ‘Agony Resistance’ (?? O_o). A final full set of Infused Ascended gear would net you 60% resistance. Not too shabby

Anyways, it’s all trolls under the bridge (or was that water?) as ArenaNet would not be able to change anything this close to release.

Still, if they’d like to hire me as an advisor for future endeavours; they have my number :P

Tyr.1965:

I’ve calmed down a bit since spending all day monitoring this thread yesterday, having been vehemently against this new tier. Mr. Whiteside’s post has a self-contradicting tone at first glance, but I’m beginning to understand where they are coming from with this decision.

ArenaNet made a mistake in balancing the tiers that are already in the game. They made exotics far too easy to obtain in relation to legendary weapons. Both items are equal in power but nowhere near equal in time, effort, and resources to acquire. There is virtually no prestige at all to exotic armor yet a ton of prestige in legendary weapons. When they eventually release legendary armor, it would have been the same case. There is a very extreme gap right now.

What they want to do, is make Ascendant gear be what Exotic gear was supposed to be. Ascended will take longer to acquire than Exotic, the way that Exotic was supposed to take longer to acquire than Rare gear. However, it still won’t take as long to acquire as legendary armor and weapons, which will be eventually scaled up to Ascended level once Ascended weapons are introduced.

Of course, Ascended has to be better than Exotic because Exotic is better than Rare and Rare is better than Masterwork, and so on. We have to think of Ascended as being the new Exotic because ArenaNet simply failed to make Exotic gear live up to its name.

Many players want to work towards something but don’t necessarily want to take the big plunge from Exotic to Legendary status. This new tier will give us all something to work towards over time. When all the Ascended gear is finally in the game, we’ll look back and feel a sense of accomplishment that many of us didnt feel with Exotics and perhaps then, more of us will start working towards Legendary gear.

I know it’s all scarey and it really wants to feel like ArenaNet is turning their backs on us, but take an objective step back and breathe. All they’re trying to do is fix their initial mistake and make the last tier of gear before Legendary take a bit more time to obtain. It wouldn’t seem nearly as scarey if all this were in place at launch.

I won’t get into the Agony mechanic and the resistance gear they’re adding. I personally think that is a stupid, boring, lazy, outdated, and historically unsuccessful mechanic. It is far from eloquent and I hope they reconsider. But in regards to the new tier, I see it as a necessary fix to a system they didnt quite get right from launch.

I think now I can relax and log back into the game and give them a chance. I’m definitely going to be extremely hesitant to spend another dime in the gem store in the immediate future because ANet has handled this entire debacle very, very poorly. Sometimes the community just needs straight-forward explanations instead of convoluted public relations spins and we didn’t get that here, which only added fuel to the fire. But I understand why they’re doing what they’re doing; I just wish they got it right from the start and didn’t have to do this. Let’s hope the road forward is less rocky than it is today.

Good for you, i just finished getting a total of 4 exotic sets plus several exotic weapons for my two ‘main’ characters i like to play. Easy to obtain? No not really, there was quite some grind and no-fun time sink involved. I was happy to be ‘done’ with it, looking forward to just playing the way i want to now and what i enjoy for the sake of it being fun for me.

Now to grind out new sets of armour – no thank you, i will not do that.

Bardes.1870:

Pants.8315:

A treadmill implies it’ll keep going. If you read the blog post, they say that they intended to add one set. Ascended gear. One set = a step, not a treadmill.

They also stated that the harder to obtain “rarer” ascended items will have added +Agony residence. So apart from the original items (which have also been stated to be attainable outside of the dungeon in the future), there is no need to keep repeating the content to get better ascended items unless you want to.

Completely optional; once the full compliment of Ascended items have been added to the game, PvE and WvWvW, then unless you want extra +agony resistance, which is only useful in that one dungeon, you never have to set foot in dungeons.

It’s one extra set, that contains a slot that has the potential to add repeatable dungeon content for those that want to improve their +agony resistance and infusions, whilst not alienating those that don’t want anything more than a basic set of ascended gear but have no intention of running a dungeon, because if your not running the dungeon then the gated agony additions are entirely irrelevant.

They clearly stated that their goal is to create an extra level of progression between Exotics and Legendary items. Not keep creating better and better tiers. The ascended items contain a slot that is only useful in a repeatable scaling dungeon, giving repeatable content for those that enjoy that. The post said it will be obtainable in other ways, meaning you never have to set foot in that dungeon once extra avenues are introduced to get the gear.

It is purely horizontal and actually quiet clever. Introducing a set of gear with a slot that allows entirely optional extra content if people want it.

Having said all of that. I still cannot work out why it has a stat increase

Well, they said exo would be the cap …. do you really believe the whole plan is just a step?

If they can make a new tier for those who are boring and need something to grind, they will NEED to make another tier for those people again.

Yes, the first time I read it , it sounded convincing. But this is not the complete picture. Difficulty of the content is balanced against the current gear tiers. Adding another tier on top of the current ones, either means that existing and planned content will become easier then originally intended. Or they will make existing content more difficult to counter that.
I expect at least that planned max lvl content will become balanced towards the new planned tiers. This is gated content imo. It might be not the same steep slope as in other MMO’s , but the principe is the same.
Yes, no one forces you to go for this new gear tier. But then no one forces you to equip any tier to begin with. You can already chose to die all the time if you want.

Tyr

All they’re trying to do is fix their initial mistake and make the last tier of gear before Legendary take a bit more time to obtain.

That’s open to debate. To me, getting an easy set of maxed equipment was what appealed to me in GW 1. I really like the concept of working on your skill instead of on getting better gear. On no occasion should it really be hard or time consuming to get a set of maximum equipment. The fact that it will give certain people an advantage in WvW makes it even worse.

So in a nutshell, I’m still against it.

Rin.1046:

tkalamba.2541:

The gap has nothing to do with stats, but the time investment from getting a exotic vs a Legendary. You can get your full set of Exotic armour in about 3 days after hitting level 80. Likely sooner if you knew what you were doing, solely through regular play. Legendaries on the other hand require a rather large time/resource investment. There is such a large gap inbetween. They are giving players something to work towards in the end game. I had all my exotic (minus jewellery, never bothered) before I even finished my personal story.

I understand and agree with this, but why the stat boost? They could have achieved this without a boost in stats very easily.

The stats boost offered isn’t even proportional to the difference between Rare to Exotic. It’s there to differentiate Ascended from Exotic likely, sure it may not have been needed. But they wanted people to weigh the option of using a customizable exotic, or using the Ascended to avoid Exotics becoming fully pointless. So Ascended get a slight stat increase to be useful, but given the significant disadvantage of not being customizable. You can a full set of Ascended, but none of the stats could suit your build… which where as an Exotic set decked out with your chosen Sigils, Jewels, and Runes will be built specifically to your needs.

It’s not a direct upgrade in the same way that going from Rare to Exotic was. It’s more of Option A vs Option B. Which would you prefer? Having a set of Ascended that doesn’t suit your build, or the flexibility of Exotics? This prevents one overshadowing the other. The stat upgrade is so small, that it will barely alter your characters stat pool. The +5 stats over an exotic we’ve seen on that ring, out of your characters total pool is so small, it won’t affect anything.

You may be able to work Ascended gear to match your build, but we don’t know if all stats will be available, or if they will all use a primary stat of magic find.

There’s at least one obvious reason why pretty much all games struggle these days; players are just plain @#%holes. People suck. The amount of complaining that goes on about even the smallest thing is alarming. I thought we were just playing a kitten game for some fun and entertainment. I didn’t realize that it was kicking my sister in the head, shooting my dog and burning my house down!

The game has been out ONLY 2 1/2 months. If you have full exotic armor right now, no matter what you think, it wasn’t all that hard for you to attain it. It’s been 2 1/2 months. Do you truly want to be done forever in this game attaining different and/or better gear?? It’s been 2 1/2 months! In a lot of games you would have nowhere near the ‘best’ gear already. In some cases it might take ten times this long. If your intention is/was to play this game for quite a while are/were you content with never changing your gear again, after only 2 1/2 months?

If you have earned the dungeon gear than you’ve been playing the game and you’re likely a person that participates in the more difficult portions of the game. Wouldn’t you then most likely participate in new content and the more difficult portions of said content? It sounds like by just participating in that you’ll end up acquiring these new items.

I guess I should just come to grips with the fact that for the rest of my life any game I play is going to be filled with people believing that they are being tormented, abused or always wronged in some manner. I’d hope a lot of people would think about their comments/actions a couple years down the road and feel ashamed. If that doesn’t happen it’s sad because it means they’re continuing through life and society with the same kind of crap mentality.

Masaki.2153:

What is clear from reading through a lot of these posts is there are indeed two camps.

GW1 veterans and bored of Pandas WoW veterans.

Shamefully, Anet are catering to the later

I didnt like WOW ever I didnt like GW1

I am enjoying GW2 and this update wont change that

I see many posts arguing that people that are wary of a new tier of gear are against new content.

New content /= higher stats gear.

New content can be done with the same top gear (new skins as rewards) simply by making the mobs harder. Even if your stats haven’t improved, your skill has improved, the knowledge of your class, your build, etc. Anet could include new content with new mobs mechanics (say new mobs need to have vulnerability or poison on in order to be able to receive damage) and many other options that do not include “mobs have higher stats, get higher stats armor/weapon to beat them”

There is no need to start a power creep to add new content, guess from which company I learned that?

“Do you truly want to be done forever in this game attaining different and/or better gear??”

Different gear? No. Still making sets for looks.

Better gear? Yes I want to be done attaining that. I want to be done NOW attaining that, since I have exotics.

Ganzo.5079:

Loosifah.4739:

From everything I’ve read the new ascended armor has higher base stats because you can’t rune/orb them up to give them a stat increase. Therefore they’re only really useful for the infusion slot to prevent agony in the dungeon.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusion

Where is stated that infusion work only for dungeon? i see only that infuse an item give an innate agony resistance, but we don know if the infusion effect give us something like rune or sigils effects that can be used outside dungeons!
So we have all the right to enrage because the information we have are NOT CLEAR. Is useless to complain when the update its already UP… After an update you have only the option to rage quit!

It actually has been clear, and people are missing it. Agony is ONLY a factor in the new dungeon. No where else.

They trashed the holy trinity so you could any dungeon without having the classic “LF tank” or “LF priest”.

Wait, now we have “LF full ascended player”. That’s much better.

Loosifah.4739:

I personally welcome the new content. Especially since they’ve defined that the gear progression WILL end as Rare -> Exotic -> Ascended -> Legendary.

I did pick out your statement, but it had been posted by others.

Why do you think that Legendary is the best? Since it can’t be infused, you can’t run all the dungeons with it. Ascendend will be stronger (if you run the dungeons) and easier to optain. But you could use it, if you need it for a special build.

If you are doing WvWvW you may use Legendaries, but Dungeons will be always Ascendes only or the people will laugh at you.

tkalamba.2541:

It actually has been clear, and people are missing it. Agony is ONLY a factor in the new dungeon. No where else.

For now.

Lindsay Murdock:

As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.

One thing people should do to show their disagreement with these new changes, is not log into the game at all this weekend when the new patch is released. It might not have the biggest effect but it’s something. If you feel this “Ascended Patch Weekend Boycott”, or whatever you wanna call it, is something you’re interested in, use some willpower and absolutely DO NOT log in at all this weekend. Don’t even log in for the Main Event on Sunday. Just go do something else and put it out of your mind. It’s not much, but at least it’s something.

Urxx.6840:

Ganzo.5079:

Loosifah.4739:

From everything I’ve read the new ascended armor has higher base stats because you can’t rune/orb them up to give them a stat increase. Therefore they’re only really useful for the infusion slot to prevent agony in the dungeon.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusion

Where is stated that infusion work only for dungeon? i see only that infuse an item give an innate agony resistance, but we don know if the infusion effect give us something like rune or sigils effects that can be used outside dungeons!
So we have all the right to enrage because the information we have are NOT CLEAR. Is useless to complain when the update its already UP… After an update you have only the option to rage quit!

Not only that.
It’s instead perfectly clear that exotic gear can’t be infused and therefore used in all the upcoming content (which will go well beyond this single patch) which will require infusions.

So the next question is:

How about runes and sigils? if the new ascent item are like a exotic item + rune + infused slot… runes and sigils reamain useful only to help you to collect this ascent gear!
But its simply stupid… why make 2 equal mechanic that they exclude each others?
Runes\sigil\jewel slots, are the same thing of the infusion slot, but now they are included in the new ascent tier! Making all the rest of the items, simply stupid to acquire!

its just exactly like go to WoW, and take a T12 tier, when you have a T14 to farm!

I have mixed feelings about Ascended Gear.
- First and foremost is that certain exotics need to be fixed. In Linsey’s original post you can see the Opal Ring has only a 3% Magic Find boost while the Exquisite Opal Jewel has 4%. Considering it takes 5 jewels to make one ring, I would think the final output would have better stats than the component parts; especially since Magic Find is the primary stat.
- The second problem I see, or perhaps third when you factor in the gear grind, is that groups will begin doing equipment checks before running areas. Example: “We need someone with a support build. You only have damage stuff? Sorry, find another group.” And that’s the nice version.
+ Additional gear and customization is always a bonus. Having quality gear as a reward for a challenging task is always nice.
+ This gives an alternative to grinding events for rare drops to salvage ectoplasm. Let’s face it, the gear treadmill already exists to get materials for crafted exotics. This just transfers it somewhere else. The real question with this update is “Why should people make exotic items anymore?” Maybe a better solution would be to create a mechanic where people can upgrade their current exotic items into ascended by completion of the dungeon, rather than replacing the current gear.

Agony and the fact the ArenaNet said we would be seeing more of it in future dungeons is the real poison of the Ascended gear.

Finding a group for dungeons is enough of a pain we don’t need to have a condition that segregates the player population based on how much Ascended gear they have.

Just fix the current dungeons:
- Fix the glitches, many players just want to farm the explorable path where bosses can be glitched.
- Some dungeons are so boring that people just run through whole sections or bosses if possible.
- Implement a decent cross server dungeon finder tool.
- Let tokens be generic tokens, so I don’t have to farm a stupid amount of times the same dungeon over and over and let my friends with whom I do the dungeons get the armor pieces they want without the group having to refarm completely for scratch.

Loosifah.4739:

They did properly respond to this thread. Just not IN the thread. Read the announcement.

They responded yes. But not properly. It’s still unclear what they are doing and what it will mean for the future of the game.