Guild Wars 2

And put GW2 next to Aion, Rift, and WoW and dragged out my old SWtoR icon to the place of honor in the middle of my screen. Hey, I got no problem with games that are gear grinds. Been there done that. I don’t like the bait and switch that has been done here. They promised no gear grind. I would rather have paid a sub so they could make their money than have them change their mission statement to sell a few extra gems. If I am to be forced to grind it will be in a genre I much prefer. Too bad really, because I was resigned to playing GW2 for the next decade or so BECAUSE of their mission statement. GL to you all. I hear the Republic has fallen on hard times so I’m off to save the universe

BadHealer.3608:

But since the Legendary can’t be infused and you need infused to play in the dungeons, you will be locked out without Ascendends.

I don’t want to be locked out, because I don’t want to grind.

Upgraded to ascended status means they will receive an infusion slot. The problem is not with legendaries but rather with exotics.

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Thorquist.8126:

Healix.5819:

This isn’t GW1 where the level cap will be the same forever.

And why do you think so? I actually hope, there won’t be any changes in level cap.

who care’s about that I dont think it will change But even if it did leveling is so fast and really has no point other than locking you out of content,

the leveling curve is flat if thay added an extra 10 levels i could have it in less than an afternoon.

Just FYI now back on topic

I dont think this new update is as big a deal as some people make it out to be

Because – in the course of that afternoon all of your gear has become obsolete.

Improved stats or increased levels are an illusion. They accomplish nothing, and are not truly necessary to add new content.

Why does new content have to be designed for level 80? Why cant Metrica Province be invaded by rampaging demons or whatever. Why would an expansion need to be level 90? I mean… why do these things if they don’t have a purpose, and if they do have a purpose what is it?

All of this stuff had answers a week ago that most of us believed ANet understood.

Norida.8692:

Now if thoses who are angry are pve only, i would like to know how can you make a mmo withtout having character improvement over time ? don’t you understand it IS boring in a mmo (while it wasn’t in gw1 because it wasn’t a mmo) to not see you character grow stronger ? haven’t you played a real roleplaying game before ? when your character need to face a new dungeon with new trials that you cannot overcome without a new artefact, a new armor ? THIS is a roleplaying game (as in massive multiplayer online roleplaying game).

Right now when i heard of this new dungeon and this new armor i was exited because i thout hey ! new condition that require me to wear a new armor ! it felt like real roleplaying dvd and stuff.

You know, D&D (or AD&D) haven’t been the only RolePlaying games ever invented? Actually shortly after D&D came out (with it’s levels) there were new RPGs coming out that did away with the whole level progression thing?

And that was back in the late 70ies, last century….

Several MMO news sites are now reporting on the backlash about these ascended items.
The people in this thread do not sound like they are about to ‘refer a friend’.

I just hope the executives wake up before this goes any farther.

Norida.8692:

Question to those " i am a GW1 veteran and i want GW2 to be the same game", did you miss the fact that in the first place GW2 was always marketed as a completely different game ? Gw1 was NOT a mmo in the first place, so why comparing ? why event put Gw1 and gw2 in the same sentence when they have so little in common except the lore ?
You want GW 1 then go to play GW1.
(And by the way i come from gw1 myself)

Also i am starting to think that the real answer to all this, is that Anet should make WvW similar to the Spvp (no armor that come from pve, same armor for everyone) that way maybe everyone will be happy, no grinding for ascended, no superior stat, because right now a lot of people are forgetting right now in WvW peoples are not Equals: some are 80 some aren’t, some have food (which give way more bonus than Ascended just in case someone doesn’t know).

Now if thoses who are angry are pve only, i would like to know how can you make a mmo withtout having character improvement over time ? don’t you understand it IS boring in a mmo (while it wasn’t in gw1 because it wasn’t a mmo) to not see you character grow stronger ? haven’t you played a real roleplaying game before ? when your character need to face a new dungeon with new trials that you cannot overcome without a new artefact, a new armor ? THIS is a roleplaying game (as in massive multiplayer online roleplaying game).

Right now when i heard of this new dungeon and this new armor i was exited because i thout hey ! new condition that require me to wear a new armor ! it felt like real roleplaying dvd and stuff.

Now i do understand thoses who enjoy nothing but the WvW only, who suffered from having to (kinda) grind thourgh the pve in order to get full exotic (i know people who did) and i feel sorry for you, perhaps it was a mistake in the first place to have the wvw linked to the pve maybe i don’t know, and i think you should tell to Arena right now to cut the link between WvW and Pve so that we have 3 different mode.

(Sorry if i made some spelling mistakes, english is not my native language and i am a bit tired)

In other MMOs, the great myth has been that gear progression=character progression. It’s a lie, and it’s a lie that ArenaNet has made clear from the beginning isn’t going to fly in their games. Character progression is about titles, stories, map completion, finding the secret locations, enjoying the company of friends, and getting better as a player. Character progression should not be about sitting in a dungeon for hours if you don’t want to just because it’ll give you a few numbers higher in your armor.

On the topic of trials you can’t overcome without new stuff, we had it in GW1. It was called Spectral Agony, and the Mursaat used it to kill us. Then we infused our armor (our current armor, not new armor that was better and necessary to buy) by going to a seer. Then we persevered. If this were the system, if exotics got infusion slots and they didn’t add ascended stuff, nobody would be complaining. Nobody is complaining about new challenges. We just don’t understand why it has to change the design strategy.

And yes, we know GW1 wasn’t an MMO. It was a CORPG. Nobody is delusional. But when ANet said they were making a whole new game, they also made it clear that they were making an MMO their way, not Blizzard’s way.

BadHealer.3608:

Rhyaehar.9504:

BadHealer.3608:

Why do you think that Legendary is the best? Since it can’t be infused, you can’t run all the dungeons with it. Ascendend will be stronger (if you run the dungeons) and easier to optain. But you could use it, if you need it for a special build.

If you are doing WvWvW you may use Legendaries, but Dungeons will be always Ascendes only or the people will laugh at you.

Legendary will be upgraded to Ascended status.

But Loosifah is still wrong, again, in his post.
Ascended == Legendary
There is no progression between them because the stats stay the same.
Just more bling some people don’t care for at all.

But since the Legendary can’t be infused and you need infused to play in the dungeons, you will be locked out without Ascendends.

I don’t want to be locked out, because I don’t want to grind.

your not locked out you just can not progress as far, but buy doing the Dungeon you get the gear to get further and further into the Dungeon ((working as intended))

my only problem with this is that this dungeon dosn’t get “harder” as they say it just starts killing you slowly as the mobs probably stay the same

UnderdogSMO.9428:

“Only ring and back accessories will be available with the Lost Shores release”

wow i didnt know this little bit of info….. way to go all your gear will be useless because you have to upgrade your ring and back slots…… What to Exotic Back slot items even look like!

from all the complaning i thought it was like our weppons and main armor piece’s getting the switch right now

Guess you missed the part where they said they will be releasing more and more ascended gear over time. Including armor and weapons.

Shahiel.8342:

I just hope the executives wake up before this goes any farther.

Amen to that.

SLuG.3085:

McSlappy.1372:

Loosifah.4739:

Also to set one thing straight. Most of us who are enjoying the new content update coming out never played that horrible game WoW.

I know I personally never touched it, granted I’ve played plenty of other amazing games that have gear progression to them.

Yup so horrible it has as of last earning call over 5 times the number of monthly subs then total GW2 box sales. Yup must be horrible.

I love how he says he never played it, but says it’s horrible anyway. He must be psychic. I’ve played it and I don’t like it, but at least I came to that conclusion on my own, I didn’t just follow popular hate trends. It really must suck to not be able to think for yourself.

Exactly! I really liked the concepts that were advertised about GW2. However I still really like WoW PvP and with MoP they’ve made it even better. Ok CC could be toned down a bit but that’s another issue.

Now that GW2 is going to gear grind it’s just like everything else on a conceptual level. So gonna go play that game that has got it right. If you can get 10mil + people to pay you 15 a month your doing it right =P

There isn’t any gear progression.The casual players got full exotic gear while only hardest of the hardcore got a legendary so they created something in the middle that would act as a threshold.Do research before you listen to rumors and complainers.
-Thread closed

tkalamba.2541:

Rhyaehar.9504:

BadHealer.3608:

Loosifah.4739:

I personally welcome the new content. Especially since they’ve defined that the gear progression WILL end as Rare -> Exotic -> Ascended -> Legendary.

I did pick out your statement, but it had been posted by others.

Why do you think that Legendary is the best? Since it can’t be infused, you can’t run all the dungeons with it. Ascendend will be stronger (if you run the dungeons) and easier to optain. But you could use it, if you need it for a special build.

If you are doing WvWvW you may use Legendaries, but Dungeons will be always Ascendes only or the people will laugh at you.

Legendary will be upgraded to Ascended status.

But Loosifah is still wrong, again, in his post.
Ascended == Legendary
There is no progression between them because the stats stay the same.
Just more bling some people don’t care for at all.

The gap is not in stats, but time allocated to earning each tier. You can get Exotics too easily, and Legendaries took too long. Ascended will fill the gap inbetween.

And that is what the mystic forge exotic recipes are for.

There is no gap. That is utter bullkitten created by some incompetent PR person, who is doing more harm to their company than good. If one is trying to play their loyal customers for fools, they best not be so obvious about it.

Caran.3217:

You know, D&D (or AD&D) haven’t been the only RolePlaying games ever invented? Actually shortly after D&D came out (with it’s levels) there were new RPGs coming out that did away with the whole level progression thing?

And that was back in the late 70ies, last century….
[/quote]

Yes i know… i was mostly a Vampire player myself back in the days… but i had to put an example that everyone would understand.

Pants.8315:

Tyr.1965:

I’ve calmed down a bit since spending all day monitoring this thread yesterday, having been vehemently against this new tier. Mr. Whiteside’s post has a self-contradicting tone at first glance, but I’m beginning to understand where they are coming from with this decision.

ArenaNet made a mistake in balancing the tiers that are already in the game. They made exotics far too easy to obtain in relation to legendary weapons. Both items are equal in power but nowhere near equal in time, effort, and resources to acquire. There is virtually no prestige at all to exotic armor yet a ton of prestige in legendary weapons. When they eventually release legendary armor, it would have been the same case. There is a very extreme gap right now.

What they want to do, is make Ascendant gear be what Exotic gear was supposed to be. Ascended will take longer to acquire than Exotic, the way that Exotic was supposed to take longer to acquire than Rare gear. However, it still won’t take as long to acquire as legendary armor and weapons, which will be eventually scaled up to Ascended level once Ascended weapons are introduced.

Of course, Ascended has to be better than Exotic because Exotic is better than Rare and Rare is better than Masterwork, and so on. We have to think of Ascended as being the new Exotic because ArenaNet simply failed to make Exotic gear live up to its name.

Many players want to work towards something but don’t necessarily want to take the big plunge from Exotic to Legendary status. This new tier will give us all something to work towards over time. When all the Ascended gear is finally in the game, we’ll look back and feel a sense of accomplishment that many of us didnt feel with Exotics and perhaps then, more of us will start working towards Legendary gear.

I know it’s all scarey and it really wants to feel like ArenaNet is turning their backs on us, but take an objective step back and breathe. All they’re trying to do is fix their initial mistake and make the last tier of gear before Legendary take a bit more time to obtain. It wouldn’t seem nearly as scarey if all this were in place at launch.

I won’t get into the Agony mechanic and the resistance gear they’re adding. I personally think that is a stupid, boring, lazy, outdated, and historically unsuccessful mechanic. It is far from eloquent and I hope they reconsider. But in regards to the new tier, I see it as a necessary fix to a system they didnt quite get right from launch.

I think now I can relax and log back into the game and give them a chance. I’m definitely going to be extremely hesitant to spend another dime in the gem store in the immediate future because ANet has handled this entire debacle very, very poorly. Sometimes the community just needs straight-forward explanations instead of convoluted public relations spins and we didn’t get that here, which only added fuel to the fire. But I understand why they’re doing what they’re doing; I just wish they got it right from the start and didn’t have to do this. Let’s hope the road forward is less rocky than it is today.

I hope more people read this, because it makes perfect sense, it’s logical, calm, eloquent and use the information we’ve been given wisely. Thanks, made me think of other points I missed when considering my own posts.

Except that a core design element of the original philosophy was that top-stat gear would be relatively easy to acquire. There was no “mistake” that exotic was “easier than anticipated” to get, because it was SUPPOSED to be easy to get (and not all of it is that easy to get).

At some point, whether now or 2 months from now or 6 months from now, people will have acquired their exotic or ascended or whatever gear and face the exact same long, boring, hard effort to get legendary gear.

If ANET was shooting to provide a more tiered journey to Legendary, the simple solution would have been to add intermediate armor sets along the way to gaining legendary that had no stat variations from the exotic standard. They could have even added gear beyond legendary as long as there was no stat increase.

There is no sound, logical reason to increase stats beyond exotic other than to provide – as Linsey Murdock explicitly stated – a sense of progression and growth to the gear-treadmillers.

This is the beginning of a power-creep gear treadmill. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have increased top stats and would have just installed intermdiate cosmetic gear. Getting to top stat/power was always supposed to be relatively easy.

Kelayda.8359:

ANet you just introduced a Sword of Damocles into your game.

I felt it the second I read about Ascended gear. I don’t understand the Legendary “gap” you brought up, as I had been working toward the harder to make mystic forge exotic weapons (Immobulus, Volcanus, Mjolnir). Now, I have no desire to work towards those goals.

Legendary weapons are being upgraded to Ascended gear stat level, so that means one of two things: Ascended level weapons will one day be introduced or Legendary weapons will be the only Ascended tier weapons. So working toward anything less than a Legendary right now is pointless, and I’m not interested in the amount of work it takes to get a Legendary.

I’m now playing this great game knowing that all the time and effort I put into my gear is eventually going to be outdated and I’ll have to do it all over again. I’ve taken a break from the game, and just waiting to see how all this turns out. My gut reaction tells me it won’t end well though.

Totally agree… the things this game was sold on are gone…. I wonder how long it will take them to take the horse blinkers off…. and see what is happening…

I loved the response last night saying they would love to hear our feedback on the new ascended system…. hmm have they even read the post?

Shahiel.8342:

The people in this thread do not sound like they are about to ‘refer a friend’.

Heh you got that right. From now on I’ll be doing my best to keep people away from this game.

Rhyaehar.9504:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Urxx.6840:

They trashed the holy trinity so you could any dungeon without having the classic “LF tank” or “LF priest”.

Wait, now we have “LF full ascended player”. That’s much better.

I have yet to see LF full exotic player. So that argument doesn’t hold that much ground.
Though I guess you will see LF ascended player for deeper levels of the same dungeon.

It does hold ground because only Ascended armor can be Infused and thus offer any protection from Agony.

the Real question is Is Ascended gear really the most optimal option for all content

in WvW and explorable’s am i still better off useing Exotic because I can slot ruins
were i can only slot infusion in Ascended

and what are the stats on Infusion exactly ((this we realy need to know))

UnderdogSMO.9428:

tkalamba.2541:

Ganzo.5079:

Loosifah.4739:

From everything I’ve read the new ascended armor has higher base stats because you can’t rune/orb them up to give them a stat increase. Therefore they’re only really useful for the infusion slot to prevent agony in the dungeon.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusion

Where is stated that infusion work only for dungeon? i see only that infuse an item give an innate agony resistance, but we don know if the infusion effect give us something like rune or sigils effects that can be used outside dungeons!
So we have all the right to enrage because the information we have are NOT CLEAR. Is useless to complain when the update its already UP… After an update you have only the option to rage quit!

It actually has been clear, and people are missing it. Agony is ONLY a factor in the new dungeon. No where else.

and New Dungeon’s like it

all it is will be a new form of content, i dont think its ment to replace story/explorables

just anouther option for endgame content

Exactly, the option of end game content, not all content. Just options.

Mylo.1247:

good thoughts on this topic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNYvHHHnSt8

This.
QFT.
Sums up everything we are arguing about.

Rhyaehar.9504:

If we want to voice our dissapointment, the time is now, not in 3 months. I’ve said it so many times in this thread to so many people: during the whole development period and marketing pre-release campaign it was always, always claimed that there will be no vertical progression and that Exotics are the top stat-wise. Many people based their purchases and their latest goals on that premise. This is not a small thing for a lot of people. If you’re one that likes it or it does’t bother you, great. Good luck, you still have a game you feel you can enjoy. Many of us don’t feel like that anymore.

And many people thought removing refund points in the original GW would take away a sense of progression and permanency for your character. And people thought green weapons would make golds worthless. And keys would only benefited the rich. And Vabbian armor was unreasonably expensive. And Kurzick skills were better than Luxon skills and it wasn’t fair. And “Wtf is this Codex bullkitten? It will ruin EVERYTHING!”

…Then the game went on to be profitable and self-sustaining for over half a decade and crossed seven million box sales. Every time anything changes, people freak out and you know what happens later? Most players end up finding the merit in the change, and it’s not as bad as anyone expected. It’s time to give it a little break people.

This change does not indicate the game and all future updates switching to vertical progression FOR ALWAYS! The sky isn’t falling. Voicing a concern in a rational and reasonable way is MUCH different than what has gone on in this thread for thousands of posts.

Conner.4702:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

“Only ring and back accessories will be available with the Lost Shores release”

wow i didnt know this little bit of info….. way to go all your gear will be useless because you have to upgrade your ring and back slots…… What to Exotic Back slot items even look like!

from all the complaning i thought it was like our weppons and main armor piece’s getting the switch right now

Guess you missed the part where they said they will be releasing more and more ascended gear over time. Including armor and weapons.

so tell me what are the stats on Infusion’s and how dose it benafit me in all other forms of content in this game????

While I’m not as pissed as some people, I’m a little disappointed to say the least. Is adding more gear to grind for the only way to expand? Isn’t it bad enough that difficulty in the dungeons mainly comes from bosses that have 1000000 hp and hit like a truck, therfore forcing you to run back and forth between waypoints while spending a smll fortune on armor repairs? We have a gear treadmil now? Exotics are hard enough to get, so as far as I’m concerned, I’ll propably ignore ascended stuff altogether. I play for fun and if I wanna work – I go to work, simple.

McSlappy.1372:

Exactly! I really liked the concepts that were advertised about GW2. However I still really like WoW PvP and with MoP they’ve made it even better. Ok CC could be toned down a bit but that’s another issue.

Now that GW2 is going to gear grind it’s just like everything else on a conceptual level. So gonna go play that game that has got it right. If you can get 10mil + people to pay you 15 a month your doing it right =P

That reasoning is surely legitimate from your point of view, and perfectly illustrates where introducing tiers of gear will lead GW2: if ArenaNet tries to fight Blizzard on Blizzard’s ground, they will sorely lose.

The only way they can win (and thus survive and even thrive) is by doing right what WoW did wrong. That’s what they were doing before introducing ascended gear. What we needed was just more content, not a wink in WoW’s direction.

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Rhyaehar.9504:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Urxx.6840:

They trashed the holy trinity so you could any dungeon without having the classic “LF tank” or “LF priest”.

Wait, now we have “LF full ascended player”. That’s much better.

I have yet to see LF full exotic player. So that argument doesn’t hold that much ground.
Though I guess you will see LF ascended player for deeper levels of the same dungeon.

It does hold ground because only Ascended armor can be Infused and thus offer any protection from Agony.

the Real question is Is Ascended gear really the most optimal option for all content

in WvW and explorable’s am i still better off useing Exotic because I can slot ruins
were i can only slot infusion in Ascended

and what are the stats on Infusion exactly ((this we realy need to know))

There are no stats, only protection for Agony, making Ascended gear pigeonholed into a certain stat set.

Urxx.6840:

Rhyaehar.9504:

Legendary will be upgraded to Ascended status.

But Loosifah is still wrong, again, in his post.
Ascended == Legendary
There is no progression between them because the stats stay the same.
Just more bling some people don’t care for at all.

Exactly. Ascended will be the new exotics and exotics will be only good in old content that doesn’t require infusions.

And to those who imply that if someone is unhappy with this new tier it must be because they haven’t read the dev’s post carefully: this is not speculation, it’s in Lindsay Murdock’s post.

Except the dev’s post doesn’t say anything about when where how ascended armor will be implemented. So yes it’s speculation that there will be content that will require before being able to do it. Because the way it’s implemented now is that it’s the same content that is harder to do the further you progress in it. In a sense it’s like hardmode in GW1. You had to finish the whole story at leat once before you get to do HardMode. In this new dungeon it’s the same, You have to do this dungeon at least once (or a couple of times) before you can do the same content again, because only then you will have ascended gear.

Further implementation of the ascended gear and infusions could indeed lead to full areas needed infused gear. But that is what most people are SPECULATING. The other implementations, that there will be more dungeons that you could delve deeper in if you have ascended gear making it harder as you progress, which doesn’t lock areas, or “storymode” for those dungeons. Or that infused gear will actually also become non-ascended gear and more common. Or infusions become more common.

That is all speculation.

I agree though that it’s very borderline, and I’m keeping a close eye on how they will play this out. But in a way I am FOR item progression to progress in those small areas of the game in order to have people that want to go for something and get a reward out of it that is worthwhile (but not necessary). I for one wouldn’t be running to get full asscended gear simply because it’s more powerful. If it’s needed to get the ascended gear in order to play the content, then I will start complaining, because

I think ArenaNet will agree on that, It’s not fun that you can’t play certain parts of the game, merely because you don’t have the time to play that much. Keep agony in those locations where people were gonna grind/farm anyway. give them slightly better rewards at higher difficulty, and let them have something to strife for while grinding said location.

If you can play all of the content at least once without ever having to worry if you can or cannot play it because you don’t have gear piece X. Then there is no problem.

If ascended gear becomes the new standard, there will be a problem though, but yet again that is speculation. It is what other games have done, its what other MMOs have done, and people all go lie.. NOOOOO not again.

Really, Guild Wars 2 has not yet won over the standard mindset of the MMO expectations it seems, sadly enough.

tkalamba.2541:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Rhyaehar.9504:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Urxx.6840:

They trashed the holy trinity so you could any dungeon without having the classic “LF tank” or “LF priest”.

Wait, now we have “LF full ascended player”. That’s much better.

I have yet to see LF full exotic player. So that argument doesn’t hold that much ground.
Though I guess you will see LF ascended player for deeper levels of the same dungeon.

It does hold ground because only Ascended armor can be Infused and thus offer any protection from Agony.

the Real question is Is Ascended gear really the most optimal option for all content

in WvW and explorable’s am i still better off useing Exotic because I can slot ruins
were i can only slot infusion in Ascended

and what are the stats on Infusion exactly ((this we realy need to know))

There are no stats, only protection for Agony, making Ascended gear pigeonholed into a certain stat set.

so basically I am still better off going for Exotics for EVERY OTHER PART OF THE GAME! or legendaries but that will take some time

i guess nobody at Anet did their research on failed mechanics in other games: http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/devdiaries/1043-update-2-radiance-removal-developer-diary

Urxx.6840:

McSlappy.1372:

Exactly! I really liked the concepts that were advertised about GW2. However I still really like WoW PvP and with MoP they’ve made it even better. Ok CC could be toned down a bit but that’s another issue.

Now that GW2 is going to gear grind it’s just like everything else on a conceptual level. So gonna go play that game that has got it right. If you can get 10mil + people to pay you 15 a month your doing it right =P

That reasoning is surely legitimate from your point of view, and perfectly illustrates where introducing tiers of gear will lead GW2: if ArenaNet tries to fight Blizzard on Blizzard’s ground, they will sorely lose.

The only way they can win (and thus survive and even thrive) is by doing right what WoW did wrong. That’s what they were doing before introducing ascended gear. What we needed was just more content, not a wink in WoW’s direction.

Exactly. You don’t have a chance in beating WoW at their game. They do it perfectly as has been proven no matter what the haters say. Time and time again game companies try and fail. If your are going to succeed you need to make your game as different from WoW as possible. Which is what GW2 was at launch. If I want to play a WoW grind game I’m just going to play WoW.

I really liked the whole idea that after doing my Rated BGs I could log over to my GW2 account and do some WvW before free transfers slowly destroyed that. But I didn’t have to worry about grinding gear. If I have to grind gear I’m only doing it in one game and WoW wins that battle. GW2 should of stayed unique.

UnderdogSMO.9428:

tkalamba.2541:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Rhyaehar.9504:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Urxx.6840:

They trashed the holy trinity so you could any dungeon without having the classic “LF tank” or “LF priest”.

Wait, now we have “LF full ascended player”. That’s much better.

I have yet to see LF full exotic player. So that argument doesn’t hold that much ground.
Though I guess you will see LF ascended player for deeper levels of the same dungeon.

It does hold ground because only Ascended armor can be Infused and thus offer any protection from Agony.

the Real question is Is Ascended gear really the most optimal option for all content

in WvW and explorable’s am i still better off useing Exotic because I can slot ruins
were i can only slot infusion in Ascended

and what are the stats on Infusion exactly ((this we realy need to know))

There are no stats, only protection for Agony, making Ascended gear pigeonholed into a certain stat set.

so basically I am still better off going for Exotics for EVERY OTHER PART OF THE GAME! or legendaries but that will take some time

Exactly, as the Ascended gear may offer a very slight stat increase, it still cannot be custom tailored to your build. This would make Exotics valuable as they can be tailored to suit your play style.

tkalamba.2541:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

tkalamba.2541:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Rhyaehar.9504:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Urxx.6840:

They trashed the holy trinity so you could any dungeon without having the classic “LF tank” or “LF priest”.

Wait, now we have “LF full ascended player”. That’s much better.

I have yet to see LF full exotic player. So that argument doesn’t hold that much ground.
Though I guess you will see LF ascended player for deeper levels of the same dungeon.

It does hold ground because only Ascended armor can be Infused and thus offer any protection from Agony.

the Real question is Is Ascended gear really the most optimal option for all content

in WvW and explorable’s am i still better off useing Exotic because I can slot ruins
were i can only slot infusion in Ascended

and what are the stats on Infusion exactly ((this we realy need to know))

There are no stats, only protection for Agony, making Ascended gear pigeonholed into a certain stat set.

so basically I am still better off going for Exotics for EVERY OTHER PART OF THE GAME! or legendaries but that will take some time

Exactly, as the Ascended gear may offer a very slight stat increase, it still cannot be custom tailored to your build. This would make Exotics valuable as they can be tailored to suit your play style.

Wouldnt this mean just another way for anet to sell bank and bag slots?

UnderdogSMO.9428:

tkalamba.2541:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Rhyaehar.9504:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Urxx.6840:

They trashed the holy trinity so you could any dungeon without having the classic “LF tank” or “LF priest”.

Wait, now we have “LF full ascended player”. That’s much better.

I have yet to see LF full exotic player. So that argument doesn’t hold that much ground.
Though I guess you will see LF ascended player for deeper levels of the same dungeon.

It does hold ground because only Ascended armor can be Infused and thus offer any protection from Agony.

the Real question is Is Ascended gear really the most optimal option for all content

in WvW and explorable’s am i still better off useing Exotic because I can slot ruins
were i can only slot infusion in Ascended

and what are the stats on Infusion exactly ((this we realy need to know))

There are no stats, only protection for Agony, making Ascended gear pigeonholed into a certain stat set.

so basically I am still better off going for Exotics for EVERY OTHER PART OF THE GAME! or legendaries but that will take some time

If you’re after specific stats, a mix and match of both exotics and ascended items will be what you want.

If you rely on rune bonuses, then you’ll need exotics. For the accessories, it’s up to the above.

If you run with whatever or a balanced spec, full ascended gear will be what you want.

All of this is assuming ascended gear comes in that stat choice you want. Remember, ascended gear is unique, so that 1 magic find ring, is the only magic find ring.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Except the dev’s post doesn’t say anything about when where how ascended armor will be implemented.

But it says it will be implemented more and more AND it’s the only way to counter agony. Do you really see them developing the whole agony system and then leave it just in a single dungeon? That would be bizarre to say the least.

Im not playing Guild Wars 2 for gear grinding tier1 tier2 tier3 tier4 ext.

But i must first see if its realy gamebreaking so ill see what the future have in store for us?

If this is way to go ill prolly quit soon and go back to solo games.

Malediktus.9250:

tkalamba.2541:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

tkalamba.2541:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Rhyaehar.9504:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Urxx.6840:

They trashed the holy trinity so you could any dungeon without having the classic “LF tank” or “LF priest”.

Wait, now we have “LF full ascended player”. That’s much better.

I have yet to see LF full exotic player. So that argument doesn’t hold that much ground.
Though I guess you will see LF ascended player for deeper levels of the same dungeon.

It does hold ground because only Ascended armor can be Infused and thus offer any protection from Agony.

the Real question is Is Ascended gear really the most optimal option for all content

in WvW and explorable’s am i still better off useing Exotic because I can slot ruins
were i can only slot infusion in Ascended

and what are the stats on Infusion exactly ((this we realy need to know))

There are no stats, only protection for Agony, making Ascended gear pigeonholed into a certain stat set.

so basically I am still better off going for Exotics for EVERY OTHER PART OF THE GAME! or legendaries but that will take some time

Exactly, as the Ascended gear may offer a very slight stat increase, it still cannot be custom tailored to your build. This would make Exotics valuable as they can be tailored to suit your play style.

Wouldnt this mean just another way for anet to sell bank and bag slots?

got to pay the Bills some how

Maybe it’s not really a crisis. Anyway. I see two camps that really don’t like what the other is doing to the game:

Creepers: We need gradually better gear (maybe higher levels too, I don’t know) to motivate us to keep playing the game. The gear should be good enough to make it worthwhile, and the effort to acquire the gear should be demanding enough to keep us engaged for X amount of time (I am guessing until the next level of gear comes out). Right now we see no reason to keep playing.

Non-creepers: We don’t have the time or inclination or (some other RL resource) to regularly grind for gear. (It’s not hyperbole because whatever can keep the creepers engaged for adequate length of time is inevitably longer than non-creepers’ fun threshold.) Creepers will render the game increasingly unplayable for us by making our gear increasingly less competitive in WvW and by eventually introducing gear-elitism to high end PvE content. (“LFG X dungeon; Col**ni or above required!” True story; personal experience.) We are so put off by this prospect that we also don’t see any reason to keep playing.

Hopefully I’ve summarized the two sides with at least bare adequacy. In the worse case, either the former group is perpetually bored or the later group is perpetually discouraged out of essential content. I am at a loss on how to reconcile the two groups.

What do you think? How might a compromise be reached?

AcidicVision.5498:

And many people thought removing refund points in the original GW would take away a sense of progression and permanency for your character. And people thought green weapons would make golds worthless. And keys would only benefited the rich. And Vabbian armor was unreasonably expensive. And Kurzick skills were better than Luxon skills and it wasn’t fair. And “Wtf is this Codex bullkitten? It will ruin EVERYTHING!”

…Then the game went on to be profitable and self-sustaining for over half a decade and crossed seven million box sales. Every time anything changes, people freak out and you know what happens later? Most players end up finding the merit in the change, and it’s not as bad as anyone expected. It’s time to give it a little break people.

This change does not indicate the game and all future updates switching to vertical progression FOR ALWAYS! The sky isn’t falling. Voicing a concern in a rational and reasonable way is MUCH different than what has gone on in this thread for thousands of posts.

I’ve played Guild Wars 1 since Beta with only a half year off time. And in all that time I never complained about those minor design changes you mentioned. I was a bit suspicios what the removal of refund points would do to gameplay. But I was happy to see it brought more build diversity (which you always had as PvP player).

BUT this change is going to change the manifest the Guild Wars franchise stands for. And that with such naive methods… It is simply unbelievable!

The real sad sing is, that I’ve never read about a fact mentioned in this thread, which would have been dealbreaking vor me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLHfq2lJY5A&t=58m35s

Higher character level need higher item level. And there is no maybe or any other hint that an increase of the character level will not come. So ascended gear is just the tiny snowflake tip of the iceberg?

Urxx.6840:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Except the dev’s post doesn’t say anything about when where how ascended armor will be implemented.

But it says it will be implemented more and more AND it’s the only way to counter agony. Do you really see them developing the whole agony system and then leave it just in a single dungeon? That would be bizarre to say the least.

No i see them adding more Dungeons Just like this one over time

along side New Explorable and story mode Dungeons as well that don’t use the Agony system.

I mean just because we get a hole bunch of jumping puzzles dosnt mean all other content stops

Possibly they could have Ascended gear cause “Agony” outside of the FoTM dungeon? So wearing it anywhere else causes you to just fall over dead in 30 seconds? That would do the trick.

There is no NEED to have the new gear lol, i play WvWvW all the time with pre 80’s, do i NEED an 80 for it to be affective? no lol

DarkEagleFive.4825:

AcidicVision.5498:

And many people thought removing refund points in the original GW would take away a sense of progression and permanency for your character. And people thought green weapons would make golds worthless. And keys would only benefited the rich. And Vabbian armor was unreasonably expensive. And Kurzick skills were better than Luxon skills and it wasn’t fair. And “Wtf is this Codex bullkitten? It will ruin EVERYTHING!”

…Then the game went on to be profitable and self-sustaining for over half a decade and crossed seven million box sales. Every time anything changes, people freak out and you know what happens later? Most players end up finding the merit in the change, and it’s not as bad as anyone expected. It’s time to give it a little break people.

This change does not indicate the game and all future updates switching to vertical progression FOR ALWAYS! The sky isn’t falling. Voicing a concern in a rational and reasonable way is MUCH different than what has gone on in this thread for thousands of posts.

I’ve played Guild Wars 1 since Beta with only a half year off time. And in all that time I never complained about those minor design changes you mentioned. I was a bit suspicios what the removal of refund points would do to gameplay. But I was happy to see it brought more build diversity (which you always had as PvP player).

BUT this change is going to change the manifest the Guild Wars franchise stands for. And that with such naive methods… It is simply unbelievable!

The real sad sing is, that I’ve never read about a fact mentioned in this thread, which would have been dealbreaking vor me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLHfq2lJY5A&t=58m35s

Higher character level need higher item level. And there is no maybe or any other hint that an increase of the character level will not come. So ascended gear is just the tiny snowflake tip of the iceberg?

that would be true if ascended gear didnt pigion hole you

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/2/22/Ascended_example.png

tkalamba.2541:

There are no stats, only protection for Agony, making Ascended gear pigeonholed into a certain stat set.

We don’t know if there will be different stats combination available for ascended gear like it is already for dungeon sets. That’s entirely possible.

What we DO know, however, is that no other rarity tier, except for legendary armors when they will be introduced, will allow to counter agony.

That is the problem. Not the 8% difference in stats, that a good player could somehow address, but the total impossibility to get rid of a condition, agony, than can’t be removed and eats away large chunks of your health with every tick.

Malediktus.9250:

tkalamba.2541:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

tkalamba.2541:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Rhyaehar.9504:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Urxx.6840:

They trashed the holy trinity so you could any dungeon without having the classic “LF tank” or “LF priest”.

Wait, now we have “LF full ascended player”. That’s much better.

I have yet to see LF full exotic player. So that argument doesn’t hold that much ground.
Though I guess you will see LF ascended player for deeper levels of the same dungeon.

It does hold ground because only Ascended armor can be Infused and thus offer any protection from Agony.

the Real question is Is Ascended gear really the most optimal option for all content

in WvW and explorable’s am i still better off useing Exotic because I can slot ruins
were i can only slot infusion in Ascended

and what are the stats on Infusion exactly ((this we realy need to know))

There are no stats, only protection for Agony, making Ascended gear pigeonholed into a certain stat set.

so basically I am still better off going for Exotics for EVERY OTHER PART OF THE GAME! or legendaries but that will take some time

Exactly, as the Ascended gear may offer a very slight stat increase, it still cannot be custom tailored to your build. This would make Exotics valuable as they can be tailored to suit your play style.

Wouldnt this mean just another way for anet to sell bank and bag slots?

That’d depend fully on how much you actually want Ascended gear. If you do dungeons, maybe you’d need more space. If you don’t you might not need additional space. They aren’t forcing you to expand. I still haven’t bought a bag or bank slot

I mean when he says:

“Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two”

it sounds like the are adressing an issue with the current system, that somehow they are no longer ok with having a “gap” in rewards. He makes it sound as if it was obvious that people want progression, and the question was how to do it. Personally, I’m a bit confused by this, because there never actually was a difference in rewards in the first place. Legendarys were just skins so people could show they grinded for something.

Ascended gear fills a gap that did not even exist before ascended gear, so the real question is: do we want numerical progression at all? Why introduce it now? After reading his reply, the original question is left unanswered.

UnderdogSMO.9428:

got to pay the Bills some how

Who are these Bills? Are they some kind of dept collector for game developers? And how much does Anet owe them?

Bad times.

when I 1st read the patch notes about this, i thought it sounded cool, but then I saw that the gear had better stats, i was a little shocked that the gear grind would start so early, also i don’t like how they are going to be using the forge so much for new item upgrades, we all know how much of a sink that thing is (I’ve wasted upwards of 100g with no return) i just really hope they know what they are doing and what the player base actually wants in the game, i love gw2 and anet and only wish for the best…

evasionmoon.1345:

Im not playing Guild Wars 2 for gear grinding tier1 tier2 tier3 tier4 ext.

Since they’re gating the release of the gear, the “tiers” will actually all be of the same ascended tier.

Since the first dungeon will be rings + back, one could assume the next dungeon would be 3 other items, such as earrings + necklace and so on for each new dungeon.

Once they get through all the gear, then it’s masterwork infusion upgrades. After that, rare, exotic and ascended.

They have a lot of room to work with before reaching the next level. Assuming a 2-3 month delay inbetween updates, the level cap will probably increase before reaching the end (full ascended with ascended infusions), where it then starts all over again.

Its not elitist to want to play with other adventurers that possess as many hardcores as you, its normal.

Oh you dont like that there is a way to measure ones ability and capacity to perform? Thats normal too and there is a solution.

Make your own Exotic friendly group, let the hardcores enjoy the game their way. More often then not that means not carrying people.

greyblue.4962:

Possibly they could have Ascended gear cause “Agony” outside of the FoTM dungeon? So wearing it anywhere else causes you to just fall over dead in 30 seconds? That would do the trick.

Now this idea is interesting. It restricts new gear to a specific new activity. The gear then becomes a part of that activity instead of serving any general function. The creepers may complain that the gear is then not worthwhile. The non-creepers may complain they still need to farm the gear to do the new… dungeon in the current case. Still, it’s the best compromise I’ve read so far.

• Ascended gear and agony infusion is required to progress to the higher levels of this endgame content
• New endgame content will require new gear or infusions to protect against new mechanics

How is this not a treadmill? Just because they abstracted the gear grind into the stat grind (and not even very well at that) doesn’t mean you’re not running on it. If you like running challenging endgame content and came here because you wouldn’t see your efforts reduced to nil every update, you’re SOL.

UnderdogSMO.9428:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/2/22/Ascended_example.png

that Ascended Ring may have 50+ power

but that Exotic with the use of that ruine has +63 power all together

The Ascended Ring has 68 power.