Guild Wars 2

Nerth.3940:

mantrunks.4810:

A question for everyone. How does a company make a dynamic game with a statically requested system?

If a new PVE map/dungeon was released with having no real change to gameplay was released, who would play it? It would be visited for a 1 time run through on most cases, and its the truth. If it has nothing new to offer, why bother? Who would use it?

According to your logic, nobody is playing League of Legends or any other game that is based on player skills.

Change for the sake of change is a bad thing and it usually bites you in the rear. I mean no disrespect but I guess you are a member of younger generation. Let me tell you something, some of us played games on 8 bit machines for years because the gameplay was fun and engaging. Do you really have to have a carrot on a stick to play the game? Wouldn’t it be nice to play a game because it is fun to play?

I know, Utopian concept.

Yes, league of legends hasn’t released a new map. They release new champions, rework skills, redo and add/remove items. I guess that must be static. I’ve been playing league since beta and it has lost “fun” for the most part. Only reason to play it is with friends since they live far.

Who said the carrot needed to be on the stick in order to play. A change in gear or stats is bound to happen in any MMO. Different items, critters, bosses, etc is what keeps the game fresh. I don’t know why they are doing this 3 months in, but regardless its what they can do to keep people interested. Don’t like how it is supposedly going to affect WvW over the next months to a year? Go to sPvP. You will have plenty of time through the releases to get the upgraded equipment

Not sure where your skill comment is derived from but even in this game, as I’ve mentioned before in this thread, I have taken down people with legendaries with some blue gears. Everyone feels that this “gear grind” and its small % stat increase will completely overshadow any skill required in WvW. It doesn’t really affect PvE at all since there is minimal effort required for that. If you were dominant before in WvW, get the gear and stay dominant. If you were bad in WvW or whatever PVP, get the gear and practice some more.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.

Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores.

Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

Dear Chris Whiteside,

Thank You for Your reply !!!

However I’m not very reassured by that. Sounds like the usual spin Doctor/marketing reply. Heard it with Radiance in LoTRO etc. Not the exact same phrases or words but the style and way they try to spin it in words to sell it to us against our will.

It’s still adding to a gear thread mill. Also it will lead to the usual “what gear You got ??? Aha, not enough infusion against agony, then You can’t join.” Elitist/1337 WoW Style and divide the community.

It’s about forcing You do do any play-style. In this case Dungeons. I dont care if they only require 5 and not a 24 man raid. You could do skirmishes in LoTRO solo, I still dont like it as it’s “forced” upon us to play that style or be sub-par, wear sub-par gear etc. I don’t care if its about forcing You to do PvP instances, WvWvW or whatever, noone should be forced to play a particular style. It should be available through whatever play-style the player preffer, including crafting. Not particular ingredients or parts, upgrades etc only being available in certain play-styles but in all.

You still say that infusion can be gotten in dungeon. You only say that You will add Ascendan and infusion to more options in the “future”.

You don’t even specify crafting as being one of those option but others like PvE and WvWvW, just not crafting.

Exactly what Radiance did in LoTRO, totally ruined crafting with Moria and made crafting more or less useless. All needed Radiance gear for the other stats as well even if not wanting to do “Vile Maw” Raid. The Morale diffence alone betwenn crafted and other gear vs Radinace was like 1500+ morale. A Huge difference if wanting to PvP or anything else. If You didn’t have it you would mostly serve as easy kill in PvP and mostly not be invited to do any instance. Don’t forget that WvWvW is basically PvP as well just on a more epic scale than instancved PvP.

Also what does “in the future mean” ??? Vague promises, not even a promise really. I heard that about adding a new Area/zone in Ettenmoors in LoTRO for year after year from Turbine.

Why would You add a mechanic style that has been tried in both WoW and LoTRO and that failed miserably and eventally was removed ???

It is even said that the new resistance/Agony will get worse and worse/stronger and stronger as You progress and eventally You will need Infusion to counter it (just like radiance).

This is not meant as sarcasm but I really start to wonder, did one of the old LoTRO Devs get hired by ANet as they eventually lost their jobs at Turbine when they caused that company to lose subs with radiance ???

Maybe You shouldn’t repeat that mistake in GW2 ???

I really hope You reconsider this, as in don’t implement it/force it upon us and still ending up having to remove it in a year or two when the damage to the playerbase is already done and will never really recover.

Better to think and act before rather than after when it’s usually too late anyway.

Shahiel.8342:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjxvj2I_CCA

“And legendary weapons, of course, are not any more powerful than the top level exotic weapons.”

“These legendaries weapons are really cool looking, and like we said, you won’t get a gameplay advantage out of these things, you’re just going to look really cool.”

From July 12th 2012.

lies lies and more lies

very disappointed by ArenaNet. I will not give anymore money to these liars

I don’t understand this whole new philosophy of wanting to fill the gap between exotics and the legendary. Legendary were suppose to be a long term goal. They go through the trouble of making the legendary quests a grind fest of material gathering, so that not everyone would get them as easy as exotics, they made it optional not forced to do because it was still on par with exotics, that is going to change.

It’s not like people needed another tier of gear in order to obtain the legendary, did they do this to give legendary weapons better stats so that it would be more attractive to players? The excuse was that they wanted to give players some progression in between exotic and legendary, that’s still no reason to break the horizontal progression they built their games on. This is the same team that wanted to get creative and break from the usual mmo mold, and in the end they still ended up following the same things as those other mmos.

UnderdogSMO.9428:

vox.5019:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

they said thay didnt want a gear tredmill, this is not adding a gear tredmill

the closest tredmill like aspect of this hole thing is just How far into the Fractals you can get

in no way dose this new gear lock you out of content

It locks you out of the deeper levels of fractals and their higher rewards. Is fractals suddenly not content?

OH kitten@@@$)#$Q(Y *headdesk working as intended

the fractals are a gontlet like progression bassed new game type in the mist that you can do at any level. It dosnt lock you out. you can go in fight your hart out untell you cant fight any more Get new gear and do it all over again getting more and more gear each time

THUS being able to fight longer and longer each time. you are not locked out of jack

Maybe if you stopped smashing your head into your desk you wouldn’t be so dense. The point is that gear has anything at all to do with how far you get. Just because you get to play an easy mode version of a raid until it gives you gear to do the hard mode version doesn’t change a thing.

Shayde.2564:

Good article on tentonhammer: http://www.guildwars2hub.com/features/editorials/honest-discussion-about-ascended-gear

“But, I think what we as a community of outraged players want to hear from them say something along these lines:

“Ascended Gear will be best in slot for the lifecycle of the game. We needed to fill a gap we left in our original design while introducing the infusion mechanic we used in GW1. Ascended gear allows us to do that, and hopefully solve many problems for a slight pain to current players.”

If I had that once piece of confirmation, I would be set."

If it was true and came from Anet, I agree this would assuage most of the population.

If this was the case, I would be a little peeved – but I would understand and would support the move.

As it is right now we do not have that statement or assurance in any way whatsoever.

Snerf.1650:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Snerf.1650:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Snerf.1650:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

they said thay didnt want a gear tredmill, this is not adding a gear tredmill

the closest tredmill like aspect of this hole thing is just How far into the Fractals you can get

in no way dose this new gear lock you out of content

Adding new tiers of stat gear 3 months after a game is released is absolutely the definition of gear treadmill. It requires you to replace your sets of max stat gear that you were under the impression would remain best in slot gear.

yeah well from what i can tell none of the ascended gear looks like it will help much for my healing build so i dont have much to switch out for my dungeon runs

and i dont intend to spend all my time doing Fractals in the Mist

But you can’t just think about yourself when discussing overall design.

It does impact many other people and especially people trying to mix/max in WVW.

yeah WvW isn’t about individual skill never was never will be
and as anet them self have said WvW is not ment to be 100% balanced

its a fight between severs not indaviduals If your severs have more players that go for max stat gear your sever is “better”

that said i kill people All the freaking time inWVW that have better gear than me

But again, you are missing the point.

Simply put, this design decision goes counter to all previous directions of Anet Guild Wars design decisions.

Whereas previously the designers opted for almost entirely horizontal progression at max level, they are now going vertical. That’s a huge fundamental difference.

Arguing about the extent of the impact is irrelevant. We are arguing about a fundamental design shift that is a huge shift in the design direction of the game.

Whether it makes 1% or 100% of a difference, it still makes a difference and signifies a departure from the unique aspects that led many of us to make GW2 our mmo homes.

mhe most people dont care and are looking forward to it

this 140 some odd page’s is nothing more than a solect few bicering back and forth

Kriton.5402:

tkalamba.2541:

You can do all 9 portions of the dungeon without encountering Agony, so no it does not lock you out of content. If you wish to proceed into the higher difficulty runs, which are still the same 9 sections, then Agony will play a role, but you can still do the 9 sections.

Tell me, from a designer point of view, why do you need better gear to get a higher difficulty? I am lost.

And mostly, why dont simple let people upgrade their current equipment, instead of filling the inventory with 2 sets? this kind of stats levelling is not funny, and its useless.

the new infusion can be added the old items, and instead of new items with betters stats because they have no rune, i prefer to keep my old gear, my old runes, and slot them with the new infusion…

and if when im running through fractals, i see a skin that a like, i can always trasmute my equipment… thats is the game i was searching when i payed for GW2.

Shayde.2564:

Godd article on tentonhammer: http://www.guildwars2hub.com/features/editorials/honest-discussion-about-ascended-gear

“But, I think what we as a community of outraged players want to hear from them say something along these lines:

“Ascended Gear will be best in slot for the lifecycle of the game. We needed to fill a gap we left in our original design while introducing the infusion mechanic we used in GW1. Ascended gear allows us to do that, and hopefully solve many problems for a slight pain to current players.”

If I had that once piece of confirmation, I would be set."

If it was true and came from Anet, I agree this would assuage most of the population.

I agree.

Many people found out about this through other news media and even with official statements from Anet, it still leaves something unanswered and lot of frustration in the air.

If this indeed is just a Tier filler to “balance” Tiers and stats will be final throughout the game releases – just say it.

I’ll be a bit upset if Ascended gear ends being the new and final optimal stat gear overall and having to replace all my existing Exotic gear (3 toons) but i’ll live with it knowing there won’t be anymore gear stat chasing in the future.

But people need to be assured this was just something they “missed” when launching the game and gear in the future won’t suffer from higher stats.

UnderdogSMO.9428:

mhe most people dont care and are looking forward to it

this 140 some odd page’s is nothing more than a solect few bicering back and forth

Who are these “most people” you’re speaking of? I wish people would stop using this phrase, I’m guilty of it too at times.

You’re not speaking for most people, you’re speaking for yourself and assuming that most people agree with you.

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Snerf.1650:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Snerf.1650:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Snerf.1650:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

they said thay didnt want a gear tredmill, this is not adding a gear tredmill

the closest tredmill like aspect of this hole thing is just How far into the Fractals you can get

in no way dose this new gear lock you out of content

Adding new tiers of stat gear 3 months after a game is released is absolutely the definition of gear treadmill. It requires you to replace your sets of max stat gear that you were under the impression would remain best in slot gear.

yeah well from what i can tell none of the ascended gear looks like it will help much for my healing build so i dont have much to switch out for my dungeon runs

and i dont intend to spend all my time doing Fractals in the Mist

But you can’t just think about yourself when discussing overall design.

It does impact many other people and especially people trying to mix/max in WVW.

yeah WvW isn’t about individual skill never was never will be
and as anet them self have said WvW is not ment to be 100% balanced

its a fight between severs not indaviduals If your severs have more players that go for max stat gear your sever is “better”

that said i kill people All the freaking time inWVW that have better gear than me

But again, you are missing the point.

Simply put, this design decision goes counter to all previous directions of Anet Guild Wars design decisions.

Whereas previously the designers opted for almost entirely horizontal progression at max level, they are now going vertical. That’s a huge fundamental difference.

Arguing about the extent of the impact is irrelevant. We are arguing about a fundamental design shift that is a huge shift in the design direction of the game.

Whether it makes 1% or 100% of a difference, it still makes a difference and signifies a departure from the unique aspects that led many of us to make GW2 our mmo homes.

mhe most people dont care and are looking forward to it

this 140 some odd page’s is nothing more than a solect few bicering back and forth

And that’s sad if true. People need to pay attention to things like this and not accept potential dishonesty or mediocrity.

Expect excellence. Expect transparency. Expect people to do the right thing. Pay attention to the little things.

I’m not insulting anyone here, just imploring people to care about things.

UnderdogSMO.9428:

OH kitten@@@$)#$Q(Y *headdesk working as intended

the fractals are a gontlet like progression bassed new game type in the mist that you can do at any level. It dosnt lock you out. you can go in fight your hart out untell you cant fight any more Get new gear and do it all over again getting more and more gear each time

THUS being able to fight longer and longer each time. you are not locked out of jack

Which part of this extremely simple statement isn’t clear to you?

Lindsay Murdock:

In the upcoming Fractals of the Mists dungeon, we’ll introduce a new monster condition called Agony.
This extremely dangerous condition ticks percentages of player health away and can’t be cleansed by normal means

When you will start dieing fast in your exotic gear because you are eaten alive by a condition that nobody can dispel, a condition you can’t counter in any way, because your gear lacks infusion slots, your party will lock you out of content, kicking you out and giving your spot to someone who has ascended gear.

Kriton.5402:

tkalamba.2541:

You can do all 9 portions of the dungeon without encountering Agony, so no it does not lock you out of content. If you wish to proceed into the higher difficulty runs, which are still the same 9 sections, then Agony will play a role, but you can still do the 9 sections.

Tell me, from a designer point of view, why do you need better gear to get a higher difficulty? I am lost.

You dont need it to get to a higher difficulty, but it helps you progress. It drops in the very same dungeon, so I fail to see how it still stops you from experiencing the content. They provide you with the very tools in the very dungeon you are to progress in, which may I add, is fully optional.

If you truly oppose this change you guys should be submitting tips to the mainstream news outlets. The best way to work against this change is by spreading awareness. We’re not going to accomplish much debating here back and forth. At this point we’re just preaching to the choir.

The Spectral Agony/Infusion mechanic was one of the more annoying aspects of GW1. It was alright the first time because it was story related, but everytime you got a new armour set you had to do a particular mission again to get re-infused. Got old rather quickly.

I have to say I’m not sure it matters if Ascended armour has higher stats or not. Even if they were the same, you would still need it for the infusion slots (I can’t see ANet going through all the trouble to create a new tier without them ultimately becoming a necessary part of normal play). It would make more sense to make the infusion slots separate from existing equipment, but that’s just me.

Please reconsider this. Please. It’s tearing the fanbase apart. I’ve already had a friend decide to quit the game forever over this, and although I can’t quit outright, I have no motivation to play anymore either, especially now that my friend is gone. Don’t do this to the game. Turn back, I’m begging you.

Where was all this outcry of 150 pages when skill points, temple of balthazar, etc was practically continually bugged for over a month after release? I don’t get this community – there was game breaking bugs in the game for over a month after release and there wasn’t a single thread that was 150 pages worth of people complaining about that (I did complain about that because it was a problem) and now they add a new tier of gear and there’s a thread that has amassed 150 pages of outcry. This new tier seems infinitesimal to the game breaking bugs the game had for a month, and which are still present to some small degree with PS, etc. I just don’t get it – can someone please explain that to me?

tkalamba.2541:

Kriton.5402:

tkalamba.2541:

You can do all 9 portions of the dungeon without encountering Agony, so no it does not lock you out of content. If you wish to proceed into the higher difficulty runs, which are still the same 9 sections, then Agony will play a role, but you can still do the 9 sections.

Tell me, from a designer point of view, why do you need better gear to get a higher difficulty? I am lost.

You dont need it to get to a higher difficulty, but it helps you progress. It drops in the very same dungeon, so I fail to see how it still stops you from experiencing the content. They provide you with the very tools in the very dungeon you are to progress in, which may I add, is fully optional.

The drops will more than likely depend on a RNG, just like they do everywhere else in the game. In other words, you can do the dungeon a few times and never get drops usable by your class or spec, thus locking you out of the content until you get lucky.

Magiofdeath.2745:

Where was all this outcry of 150 pages when skill points and temple of balthazar was practically continually bugged for over a month after release? I don’t get this community – there was game breaking bugs in the game for over a month after release and there wasn’t a single thread that was 150 pages worth of people complaining about that (I did complain about that because it was a problem) and now they add a new tier of gear and there’s a thread that has amassed 150 pages of outcry. This new tier seems infinitesimal to the game breaking bugs the game had for a month, and which are still present to some small degree with PS, etc. I just don’t get it – can someone please explain that to me?

Sure, happy to help explain.

That was an unintentional bug that we all assumed would be fixed eventually.

This is a radical departure from years of design directions and could potentially signal huge changes in how end game gear and rewards are developed.

Magiofdeath.2745:

Where was all this outcry of 150 pages when skill points, temple of balthazar, etc was practically continually bugged for over a month after release? I don’t get this community – there was game breaking bugs in the game for over a month after release and there wasn’t a single thread that was 150 pages worth of people complaining about that (I did complain about that because it was a problem) and now they add a new tier of gear and there’s a thread that has amassed 150 pages of outcry. This new tier seems infinitesimal to the game breaking bugs the game had for a month, and which are still present to some small degree with PS, etc. I just don’t get it – can someone please explain that to me?

Because bugs happen. A shift in design is by decision.

" This new tier seems infinitesimal to the game breaking bugs the game had for a month, and which are still present to some small degree with PS, etc. I just don’t get it – can someone please explain that to me?"

The temple of balthazaar will get fixed eventually and isn’t needed for much more then Shards.

This will fundamentally change people’s ability to feel like they’re finally done leveling until GW2 dies for ever and ever. It will also make people lose faith in ANet, who will have lied and cheated them out of promises.

That’s why the outcry

krookie.6378:

The drops will more than likely depend on a RNG, just like they do everywhere else in the game. In other words, you can do the dungeon a few times and never get drops usable by your class or spec, thus locking you out of the content until you get lucky.

And anyway, why introduce a new tier making exotics obsolete altogether, after they have led us to believe exotics were the most powerful items in the game stat-wise?

Why not just add infusion slots to existing max level exotics and legendaries, either automatically or via quest/event/mission/whatever?

Magiofdeath.2745:

Where was all this outcry of 150 pages when skill points, temple of balthazar, etc was practically continually bugged for over a month after release? I don’t get this community – there was game breaking bugs in the game for over a month after release and there wasn’t a single thread that was 150 pages worth of people complaining about that (I did complain about that because it was a problem) and now they add a new tier of gear and there’s a thread that has amassed 150 pages of outcry. This new tier seems infinitesimal to the game breaking bugs the game had for a month, and which are still present to some small degree with PS, etc. I just don’t get it – can someone please explain that to me?

What you’re describing are bugs and while they are annoying, most people agree that they are inevitable, especially in the first few months after release.

This is different. This is a deliberate change to the game, contrary to the whole philosophy than made a lot of people purchase GW2 in the first place.

When you will start dieing fast in your exotic gear because you are eaten alive by a condition that nobody can dispel, a condition you can’t counter in any way, because your gear lacks infusion slots, your party will lock you out of content, kicking you out and giving your spot to someone who has ascended gear.

Which is exactly why this will be pretty much required gear advancement, not because of some small (maybe) stat increase. You will soon find groups not taking people who don’t have the infused stuff.

Urxx.6840:

krookie.6378:

The drops will more than likely depend on a RNG, just like they do everywhere else in the game. In other words, you can do the dungeon a few times and never get drops usable by your class or spec, thus locking you out of the content until you get lucky.

And anyway, why introduce a new tier making exotics obsolete altogether, after they have led us to believe exotics were the most powerful items in the game stat-wise?

Why not just add infusion slots to existing max level exotics and legendaries, either automatically or via quest/event/mission/whatever?

This seems like the best solution. They could make it more like it was in GW1. Have a dungeon whose sole purpose is to get to the end where you can upgrade your armor to have an infusion slot. That infusion slot can be filled with upgrades that help you with the other new dungeons.

so i don’t have to go through another dungeon to get the next tier of gear? I just want to PVP and not have to worry about being out geared, i can’t stand dungeon running.

Magiofdeath.2745:

Where was all this outcry of 150 pages when skill points, temple of balthazar, etc was practically continually bugged for over a month after release? I don’t get this community – there was game breaking bugs in the game for over a month after release and there wasn’t a single thread that was 150 pages worth of people complaining about that (I did complain about that because it was a problem) and now they add a new tier of gear and there’s a thread that has amassed 150 pages of outcry. This new tier seems infinitesimal to the game breaking bugs the game had for a month, and which are still present to some small degree with PS, etc. I just don’t get it – can someone please explain that to me?

Sure, and I am glad you asked.

Bugs happen. Glitches happen. It sucks, but it’s true.

Stated vision and design philosophy for YEARS leading up to the game, with advertising and direct developer promises being promptly turned on it’s head less than 3 months after release in order to “provide a proper gear progression” is an insult and a travesty.

We can tolerate bugs and balance fixes and stuff, even when we argue tooth and nail about them.
We can not tolerate lies and abandonment of the very principles that brought us here in the first place.

Khalic.3561:

One difference here is that the dungeon will already be open to players without any infusions at all. I don’t think we know how many fractals yet. By doing the dungeon at a lower difficulty, you can open up the requirements for doing it at a higher difficulty. Is that so different that opening explorable mode by doing story mode?

Again keeping in mind that you can open up at least some of the higher end content without doing the lower end parts.

It is different – if they just wanted to get players to play through the lower difficulties, why not simply enhance the Story/Explorable mode mechanic? Why does it have to be Radiance, tied to a new item tier with better stats, creating a gear treadmill?

Also, it is really obvious how ArenaNet follows Turbines footsteps.

“The LOTRO Store will offer convenience, not advantage.”
From the beginning, they were selling P2W character stat boosts not realistically obtainable through gameplay.

“Legendary Items will level with you.”
From the beginning, you had to grind your legendary item to its max. potential in LOTRO, and with every level you gained, the item was totally obsolete and had to be scrapped. This never changed.

“GW2 will only have cosmetic, not gear progression.”
3 Months later, they introduce Ascended gear with Radiance, with better stats than exotics so everyone will have to get them and grind the dungeon.

“We do not plan to introduce another gear tier in 3 months.”
ArenaNet promised 3 months ago (and during development) that there will be no vertical progression whatsoever, “we leave the gear grind to other MMOs”.
And now they promise that they won’t add another tier in 3 months? If they cannot keep to their own broadly advertised “MMO manifesto”, why should I believe a word they say now?

An MMO company that openly goes back on one promise will never keep another. We learned that with Turbine and LOTRO. I am disappointed that ArenaNet is no different, and I wish I could get a refund for the copies of GW2 I purchased. (Sadly, not possible with Amazon and Green Man Gaming.)

For me, the gear treadmill is what made me want to quit other MMOs each and every time they added a new tier.

GW2 and its promise of no gear treadmill was what made me abandon my previous MMO, which I’d been heavily invested in for years.

I’m sure I’m not the only one who feels extremely betrayed by this, no matter how small some may say the increment is. It is what it is, another tier of gear after I’ve already farmed full exotics for my main character and am planning my next one. This is exactly what I did not want.

Magiofdeath.2745:

Where was all this outcry of 150 pages when skill points, temple of balthazar, etc was practically continually bugged for over a month after release? I don’t get this community – there was game breaking bugs in the game for over a month after release and there wasn’t a single thread that was 150 pages worth of people complaining about that (I did complain about that because it was a problem) and now they add a new tier of gear and there’s a thread that has amassed 150 pages of outcry. This new tier seems infinitesimal to the game breaking bugs the game had for a month, and which are still present to some small degree with PS, etc. I just don’t get it – can someone please explain that to me?

You have it backwards. The bugs, while annoying, are an infinitesimal problem compared to the prospect of a new, higher tier of equipment.

A bug affects one event out of hundreds, and lasts only until it gets fixed. A higher tier of gear rots the entire game, from top to bottom, and is practically impossible to remove from the game once Pandora’s Box gets opened.

jakep.9572:

Urxx.6840:

krookie.6378:

The drops will more than likely depend on a RNG, just like they do everywhere else in the game. In other words, you can do the dungeon a few times and never get drops usable by your class or spec, thus locking you out of the content until you get lucky.

And anyway, why introduce a new tier making exotics obsolete altogether, after they have led us to believe exotics were the most powerful items in the game stat-wise?

Why not just add infusion slots to existing max level exotics and legendaries, either automatically or via quest/event/mission/whatever?

This seems like the best solution. They could make it more like it was in GW1. Have a dungeon whose sole purpose is to get to the end where you can upgrade your armor to have an infusion slot. That infusion slot can be filled with upgrades that help you with the other new dungeons.

i really love a solution like this! its better and better then drop a stupid item.

and why this dungeon cant be the fractal iteself? every 3 runs you have a boss no? your idea can be applied to THAT boss!

I can live with that. +1

[EDIT]:
If the price isn’t to expensive – in my mind it would be somewhat similar to paying a subscription fee.

If I find it to expensive I can imagine getting some of the gear from the dungeon and buying the rest in the gem store.

I, as an avid WvW player, am concerned that now I’ll have to do a crappy dungeon (not meant as an insult to the dungeons themselves, but I really loathe PVE, especially instanced group PVE) to be able to compete in WvW fights.

I don’t mind if these ascended items add a gear treadmill or a gating system to dungeons, but I do mind if this gear treadmill affects my treasured WvW experience. I was really hoping that I had finally found a game in which I could just lvl to lvl 80, spend a few pieces of gold, karma or badges on a set of items and would never have to worry about getting a new one again and be happily playing this game for years to come.

There’s absolutely no chance to get me to do a dungeon so that I can have best in slot gear and stay competitive in WvW- PVP. Should I feel that need at any point in the future (I guess one tier of items wouldn’t make the difference huge enough, but two or three certainly will, if they keep adding new “content” like that)

When they implement this crap, they should also think of changing WvW to a sPVP like itemisation where everybody gets all runes/weapons/sigils etc. for a certain gear lvl and nothing higher and also everybody gets real lvl 80 instantly for WvW like for sPVP. It sucks to be only cannon fodder while levelling alts in WvW.

“We’d like to create a create a tier between 150 & 150, so we are increasing 150 to 200 and adding in 175 and putting some shiny things around 175 to entice the ignorant. 200 will be keeping it’s original properties thus weirdly making 175 better and more necessary to do things. Yes we know our actual reasoning for making 175 is fabricated, silly and contradictory to our mission statement. See you at the gem shop” -ANet

Snerf.1650:

Magiofdeath.2745:

Where was all this outcry of 150 pages when skill points and temple of balthazar was practically continually bugged for over a month after release? I don’t get this community – there was game breaking bugs in the game for over a month after release and there wasn’t a single thread that was 150 pages worth of people complaining about that (I did complain about that because it was a problem) and now they add a new tier of gear and there’s a thread that has amassed 150 pages of outcry. This new tier seems infinitesimal to the game breaking bugs the game had for a month, and which are still present to some small degree with PS, etc. I just don’t get it – can someone please explain that to me?

Sure, happy to help explain.

That was an unintentional bug that we all assumed would be fixed eventually.

This is a radical departure from years of design directions and could potentially signal huge changes in how end game gear and rewards are developed.

This entire game has been a huge change from the original GW. In GW1, I could do practically anything with all heros and if necessary a consumable set and didn’t have to worry about playing with randoms. Now, I have to rely on people to run a dungeon, whereas I didn’t in GW1. Some would say that is a radical departure from their design direction. Hate it or love it, GW is not what it used to be – its now a traditional style MMO. I like GW1 more than GW2 because of this but I’m willing to accept changes. If they add 25-man raids, then I’m done, lol. I don’t want new tiers every 3 months either, but I am going to give them the benefit of a doubt, that this is the only additional tier they will add and be neutral about it. We don’t know anything at this point aside what they’ve laid out in text. I just wish people would see what happens before raging. You know, being neutral about it. They aren’t going to all of a sudden change the content since its due out in 2 days, so this outcry means nothing really. Once you find out what this is all about, then re-commence with the outcry if they do indeed continue adding new tiers. Honestly, I would of preferred a new zone with hearts and new PS arcs, but that’s more for a actual expansion IMO than one zone. I don’t really even understand the lore behind karka – is there even any? Are they even related to the dragons? What’s the lore behind the new dungeon too? Are they just adding things to add things? Lol. (Yeah, sorry, offtopic but yeah, this new enemy just seems weird – I honestly thought we were going to meet ‘Bubbles’ champion or something).

they made it clear dungeon running won’t be the only means of acquiring the gear and that they will be adding more ways to get it including WvW

JBleezz.2697:

they made it clear dungeon running won’t be the only means of acquiring the gear and that they will be adding more ways to get it including WvW

They said “eventually”. Which could be months or years for all we know.

As for OP, I agree. I’m not a fan of the dungeons in this game, and making that the only way to currently get Ascended gear is crap.

This would be breaking another of their promises, I suppose, but it would make more sense than requiring everyone to do the friggin dungeon.

Urxx.6840:

krookie.6378:

The drops will more than likely depend on a RNG, just like they do everywhere else in the game. In other words, you can do the dungeon a few times and never get drops usable by your class or spec, thus locking you out of the content until you get lucky.

And anyway, why introduce a new tier making exotics obsolete altogether, after they have led us to believe exotics were the most powerful items in the game stat-wise?

Why not just add infusion slots to existing max level exotics and legendaries, either automatically or via quest/event/mission/whatever?

It boggles my mind. Introducing infusion to exotics would’ve accomplished the same thing as this ascended gear and maintained the horizontal progression scheme.

I don’t buy that “fill the gap between exotics and legendaries” nonsense either. There is no gap. Legendaries require a huge grind to get and that grind is not going to change if they add an item that requires less grind than legendaries but more grind than exotics.

I don’t mind a higher tier if it’s added with an expansion but with a content patch 3 months after the game’s release? Especially when certain slots don’t even have exotic or even rare items?

what do you guys figure, 3200 gems for a whole set? basically 40 bucks? i could live with that.

ovan.5947:

Well, it seems like haters gonna hate, one more time.

Seriously guys, what are we going to have friday?

-new pvp map
-new pve map
-new dungeon
-new stuff (seems like this is the problem isn’t it?)

Well 2 points seems to be a problem :

1) that new stuff that you have to have to do that new dungeon
2) Anet dared to make something we weren’t expecting.

Let’s begin with 1 )
Only rings and back item are coming now. So basically, i still have a masterpiece rarity back item, so i’m glad i’ll be able to have a better one. Concerning rings….come on, it’s really so terrible to have to change 2 rings now?

Then, you need this stuff to do the dungeon? Ok let’s look at it.
That dungeon is 3x 3 “smaller dungeon”. Ok, so basically, the first 3 will be done without the stuff, since you need to drop it.
The 3 next may certainly be the same.
Come the 3 last where you may need these infusions. Come on, if 3 items with infusion are enough ( that means 8 items without it) to do this last part, then my finger tell me it’s not gonna be that hard right now.
Where is the problem?

Grind? come one, how many thread could we see until 1 week ago saying " omg i can just grind, that’s so boring, i hate risen i want a new map, i find that armors are ugly i want some new ones …). Wait, grind? omg i will have to get 3 new items ! (1 even will be crafted with the mystic forge….).

But that’s only 3 kittening items ! the rest will progressively come with other updateS.

Running after some new stuff? come on you blind bots, that’s a new rarity king. Does it look like wow? do you have to grind that new item to be able to do another dungeon to get an even better event to make another….. ?
No you just have to get 3 items so please, don’t come crying about that, it’s not even near to what wow or other clones are like.

Concerning 2)….

Well, once my mother told me we would go to new york for summer hollidays. Then, they said : sorry, we can’t do that in fact, we’ll go somewhere else.

What did i answer?

Kitten you ! you kittening kitten i wanna go in NewYork you kitten ! ?

No.

Did i say : kitten you ! i can’t trust you anymore, you’re a kittening kitten liar I hate you i won’t speak to you anymore!

No.

I said Ok, i’m sad but i can understand.

You guys are crying river over something like that? they add another rarity and so it’s going to be hell in tyria?

Come one, if you’re that stupid, just live, i’ll be happy like loads of others.

Don’t just say that same as others, try to understand.

TL DR :

skritts are smarter the more numerous they are, gw2 players aren’t skritts, obviously.

Understand? Understand what? They haven explained anything. They just all of a sudden changed their entire theory, vision, mentality of what their game should be about! If i take your stupid example it would be like your mother suddenly deciding to take you to take you to a forced labor camp instead of hollidays.

The only thing from ANET so far we ve gotten is something straight out of a spinroom in politics.
We have no data on why they decided this is the right course of action, we have no assurance that this will be the last power creep in the game and no reason to even believe anything they say from this point out.

Not only is that a problem but also companies dont just change their strategy out of the blue. Something bad must be going on at ANET for this to have been even considered.

aliquis.9180:

This would be breaking another of their promises, I suppose, but it would make more sense than requiring everyone to do the friggin dungeon.

eh might as well they have pretty much broken all of their promises up until this point. I am truly expecting the Trinity to come back in a few months.

tkalamba.2541:

Kriton.5402:

tkalamba.2541:

You can do all 9 portions of the dungeon without encountering Agony, so no it does not lock you out of content. If you wish to proceed into the higher difficulty runs, which are still the same 9 sections, then Agony will play a role, but you can still do the 9 sections.

Tell me, from a designer point of view, why do you need better gear to get a higher difficulty? I am lost.

You dont need it to get to a higher difficulty, but it helps you progress. It drops in the very same dungeon, so I fail to see how it still stops you from experiencing the content. They provide you with the very tools in the very dungeon you are to progress in, which may I add, is fully optional.

Untrue. There was a link to an official post saying that “After some point, having ascended items will be CRUCIAL to your survival”. So yea, at some point, it will NEED it to get to the next higher difficulty. As for whether it will gate other pve contents, that remains to be seen.

krookie.6378:

It boggles my mind. Introducing infusion to exotics would’ve accomplished the same thing as this ascended gear and maintained the horizontal progression scheme.

I don’t buy that “fill the gap between exotics and legendaries” nonsense either. There is no gap. Legendaries require a huge grind to get and that grind is not going to change if they add an item that requires less grind than legendaries but more grind than exotics.

I don’t mind a higher tier if it’s added with an expansion but with a content patch 3 months after the game’s release? Especially when certain slots don’t even have exotic or even rare items?

Exactly. And if by gap they intended a gap in acquisition time, then an infusion slot on exotic gear would have done anyway. Having all your gear fully infused still required an acquisition time which is higher than plain non infused gear and lower than legendaries.

Mission accomplished without upsetting all those who have spent remarkable amounts of time and virtual or real money to gear up all their toons in full exotics which now don’t grant access to all future content anymore.

I have come to the conclusion that it does not matter who designs the game, never ever buy any game without checking the publisher. NCSOFT is junk. They make Korean grinders. How can they make an MMO without gear grind or allow it to continue without gear grind?

ITAM PLZ!

I’d rather not pay ArenaNet for selling out their principles.

you guys didnt played gw1

agony system was in gw1 and that was released 2 years before lotro

lotro tried to copy it and failed becouse different game mechanics

Yams.3859:

I haven’t read all 147 pages of posts, so apologies if this has already been suggested before:

ANet is a company. Numbers talk to them. At this point, we can reasonably expect Ascended items to make their way into the update this weekend and we may better illustrate our disapproval through actions.

For those who are not happy with the stat increase, why don’t we decide on a day where no one logs into the game for a day? A weekend day (say Saturday Nov 24, one week after the content update, starting GMT 0:00 for 24 hours) would have the largest impact as player logins are highest. The benefits are two-fold:
1) For those claiming that this direction alienates a majority of the playerbase, ANet will have some concrete numbers to work with. It could be the case that much of what we see here is grandstanding and we are all happily chasing giant crabs to care, or ANet might see a 50% drop in playerbase for that period.
2) Talk is cheap. If we all feel as strongly about this as the forum posts suggest, we need to do more than complain.

This is only a suggestion and we should decide on its merits or lack-thereof after this weekend once we have a better idea of how frequently Ascended loop drops and what the Infusions are.

Just some thoughts.

I actually posted something similar earlier in the thread. I’ll post it again:

One thing people should do to show their disagreement with these new changes, is not log into the game at all this weekend when the new patch is released. It might not have the biggest effect but it’s something. If you feel this “Ascended Patch Weekend Boycott”, or whatever you wanna call it, is something you’re interested in, use some willpower and absolutely DO NOT log in at all this weekend. Don’t even log in for the Main Event on Sunday. Just go do something else and put it out of your mind. It’s not much, but at least it’s something.

velmeister.4187:

I have come to the conclusion that it does not matter who designs the game, never ever buy any game without checking the publisher. NCSOFT is junk. They make Korean grinders. How can they make an MMO without gear grind or allow it to continue without gear grind?

ITAM PLZ!

I heard the reason there are so many bugs in this game is because NCSOFT stock was tumbling and they wanted to get it out asap, even though it wasn’t ready.

Of course this is just what I heard.

Magiofdeath.2745:

Snerf.1650:

Magiofdeath.2745:

Where was all this outcry of 150 pages when skill points and temple of balthazar was practically continually bugged for over a month after release? I don’t get this community – there was game breaking bugs in the game for over a month after release and there wasn’t a single thread that was 150 pages worth of people complaining about that (I did complain about that because it was a problem) and now they add a new tier of gear and there’s a thread that has amassed 150 pages of outcry. This new tier seems infinitesimal to the game breaking bugs the game had for a month, and which are still present to some small degree with PS, etc. I just don’t get it – can someone please explain that to me?

Sure, happy to help explain.

That was an unintentional bug that we all assumed would be fixed eventually.

This is a radical departure from years of design directions and could potentially signal huge changes in how end game gear and rewards are developed.

This entire game has been a huge change from the original GW. In GW1, I could do practically anything with all heros and if necessary a consumable set and didn’t have to worry about playing with randoms. Now, I have to rely on people to run a dungeon, whereas I didn’t in GW1. Some would say that is a radical departure from their design direction. Hate it or love it, GW is not what it used to be – its now a traditional style MMO. I like GW1 more than GW2 because of this but I’m willing to accept changes. If they add 25-man raids, then I’m done, lol. I don’t want new tiers every 3 months either, but I am going to give them the benefit of a doubt, that this is the only additional tier they will add and be neutral about it. We don’t know anything at this point aside what they’ve laid out in text. I just wish people would see what happens before raging. You know, being neutral about it.

I do understand and appreciate these comments, it’s true that this is a different game.

But in many of those other examples you put forth, they’ve come out and explained how they are departing and why over the last 3 or 4 years.

This case is one where they are directly contradicting years of direct commentary about GW2 specifically.

I also understand that we don’t have all the facts. But we don’t need more facts then they’ve currently provided us to see reasonable evidence that design has changed.

If, if fact it hasn’t changed, the onus lies with them to provide evidence to support a non-changing stance. Saying, “There is no gear treadmill” is not evidence. It’s an opinion.

Something along the lines of “We understand concerns over implementation of a gear treadmill. The ascended armor is designed to provide a rarity gap, rather than a statistical gap. Because of this, it will provide the agony protection to go along with the fractals dungeon, but no additional statistic benefit over current exotic gear”

That is all it would take to calm this storm. That they will not say this indicates to me that the design has indeed shifted.