Guild Wars 2

Even Blizzard removed content gating. It’s plain bad for the health of the game as it forces players to participate 24/7 or risk not being able to enjoy future content.

saurus.8290:

you guys didnt played gw1

agony system was in gw1 and that was released 2 years before lotro

lotro tried to copy it and failed becouse different game mechanics

I have not played GW1, but from what I hear, “Spectral Agony” was in one instance (?) and you got your already equipped armor “infused” by continuing the story quests and thus becoming immune. That is just a simple instance unlock mechanic, not the gear treadmill they are adding now.

I’m pretty sure we will see soon “LFM frac level 10 only, must have asc”. It kinda reminds me of “LFM cof explo war/guardians only please!” except the difference is, the latter is made by a group of noobs who don’t realize you can ideally complete any dungeon with any prof mix-up, and the latter can really be a real, scary, valid reason.

Snerf.1650:

Magiofdeath.2745:

Snerf.1650:

Magiofdeath.2745:

Where was all this outcry of 150 pages when skill points and temple of balthazar was practically continually bugged for over a month after release? I don’t get this community – there was game breaking bugs in the game for over a month after release and there wasn’t a single thread that was 150 pages worth of people complaining about that (I did complain about that because it was a problem) and now they add a new tier of gear and there’s a thread that has amassed 150 pages of outcry. This new tier seems infinitesimal to the game breaking bugs the game had for a month, and which are still present to some small degree with PS, etc. I just don’t get it – can someone please explain that to me?

Sure, happy to help explain.

That was an unintentional bug that we all assumed would be fixed eventually.

This is a radical departure from years of design directions and could potentially signal huge changes in how end game gear and rewards are developed.

This entire game has been a huge change from the original GW. In GW1, I could do practically anything with all heros and if necessary a consumable set and didn’t have to worry about playing with randoms. Now, I have to rely on people to run a dungeon, whereas I didn’t in GW1. Some would say that is a radical departure from their design direction. Hate it or love it, GW is not what it used to be – its now a traditional style MMO. I like GW1 more than GW2 because of this but I’m willing to accept changes. If they add 25-man raids, then I’m done, lol. I don’t want new tiers every 3 months either, but I am going to give them the benefit of a doubt, that this is the only additional tier they will add and be neutral about it. We don’t know anything at this point aside what they’ve laid out in text. I just wish people would see what happens before raging. You know, being neutral about it.

I do understand and appreciate these comments, it’s true that this is a different game.

But in many of those other examples you put forth, they’ve come out and explained how they are departing and why over the last 3 or 4 years.

This case is one where they are directly contradicting years of direct commentary about GW2 specifically.

I also understand that we don’t have all the facts. But we don’t need more facts then they’ve currently provided us to see reasonable evidence that design has changed.

If, if fact it hasn’t changed, the onus lies with them to provide evidence to support a non-changing stance. Saying, “There is no gear treadmill” is not evidence. It’s an opinion.

Something along the lines of “We understand concerns over implementation of a gear treadmill. The ascended armor is designed to provide a rarity gap, rather than a statistical gap. Because of this, it will provide the agony protection to go along with the fractals dungeon, but no additional statistic benefit over current exotic gear”

That is all it would take to calm this storm. That they will not say this indicates to me that the design has indeed shifted.

I see what you’re saying. While I am neutral about this, there have been many things since release that has screamed that NCSoft is in charge and not ANet. Maybe this is one of those examples. I’m probably going to get infracted for saying this, but its my honest opinion.

We shall see.

In 4 years of playing gw i never did a dungeon after sorrows furnace. i’ll probably never see the inside of the bulk of the dungeons in gw2. never sauw the depths. Spent maybe 20 minutes in the fissure of woe once and wasted 1k to catch a 3 second glimps of under world. But I played the game for 4 years cause there was lots of other stuff to do

gated content is fine. I don’t need to open THAT gate. as long as there is also enough new content placed “outside the gate” for those of us who aren’t interested in the grind they can make 1 dungeon fort knox for all i care

mantrunks.4810:

Yes, league of legends hasn’t released a new map. They release new champions, rework skills, redo and add/remove items. I guess that must be static. I’ve been playing league since beta and it has lost “fun” for the most part. Only reason to play it is with friends since they live far.

Who said the carrot needed to be on the stick in order to play. A change in gear or stats is bound to happen in any MMO. Different items, critters, bosses, etc is what keeps the game fresh. I don’t know why they are doing this 3 months in, but regardless its what they can do to keep people interested. Don’t like how it is supposedly going to affect WvW over the next months to a year? Go to sPvP. You will have plenty of time through the releases to get the upgraded equipment

Not sure where your skill comment is derived from but even in this game, as I’ve mentioned before in this thread, I have taken down people with legendaries with some blue gears. Everyone feels that this “gear grind” and its small % stat increase will completely overshadow any skill required in WvW. It doesn’t really affect PvE at all since there is minimal effort required for that. If you were dominant before in WvW, get the gear and stay dominant. If you were bad in WvW or whatever PVP, get the gear and practice some more.

Imagine Riot blog post like this “Dear LoL players, we are listening to your concerns and from now on, every new champion we release will be slightly more powerful. We plan to introduce this change in a slow pace to give you time to buy new champion and learn to play them. …”

A change in gear or stats is bound to happen in any MMO. Different items, critters, bosses, etc is what keeps the game fresh.

Where on earth did you get the idea that a new tier of gear is needed to introduce new types of enemies to the game? Companies do this only to keep people subscribed hence carrot on a stick analogy. It requires time to get new gear to fight a new boss in a new raid instance. Time is a limited commodity, so you have to decide, play and keep up with the gear progression or stop.

Why do you think so many people quit playing MMOs because their lifestyle changed? Back in collage I was able to play for 8+ hours a day, I grew up, found a job so I can’t play as much anymore. I’m not subscribed to any MMO that has gear progression because I don’t have the time to keep up with it. I have a job, I don’t need a game to be my job.

Innovation is doing something different, gear progression, stat inflation, power-creep, or whatever you want to call it, is not it.

This is from Chris Whiteside:
Our Studio Design Director Chris Whiteside just posted this:
“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.
Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.
Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.
Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores."
Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

Snerf.1650:

Something along the lines of “We understand concerns over implementation of a gear treadmill. The ascended armor is designed to provide a rarity gap, rather than a statistical gap. Because of this, it will provide the agony protection to go along with the fractals dungeon, but no additional statistic benefit over current exotic gear”

That is all it would take to calm this storm. That they will not say this indicates to me that the design has indeed shifted.

I don’t agree with you here.
Ascended gear is not only a rarity gap, because only Ascended gear can take Infusions in.
Also, this tier is absolutely not needed stat wise: if Exotics are enough and good for balance in PvP, there is no reason whatsoever, apart from a whim, to add more stats to PvE.
None of this also adresses the simple fact that if you’re adding vertical progression – even on few slots at a time – but at the same time admit you’re planning to expand this further, it is a gear treadmill that was not supposed to be in this game to begin with.

Also, none of this will offer any satisfaction for players who already invested in Exotics (time, effort, gold, gems…).

Sorry for a bit erratic post but I’m getting really fed up with this.

MrDmajor.7084:

“We’d like to create a create a tier between 150 & 150, so we are increasing 150 to 200 and adding in 175 and putting some shiny things around 175 to entice the ignorant. 200 will be keeping it’s original properties thus weirdly making 175 better and more necessary to do things. Yes we know our actual reasoning for making 175 is fabricated, silly and contradictory to our mission statement. See you at the gem shop” -ANet

Excellent! Bravo sir, you captured it.

I don’t understand this decision. I read the message from Chris Whiteside 3 times, just to make sure I didn’t miss anything. And here’s the line that got me:

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two.

Those two sentences are what don’t make sense. Right now, there is no jump in reward between exotics and legendaries. They have the same stats, it’s just that the legendaries look more impressive. The only way there would be a jump in reward is if you increased the stats on legendaries, which goes against your stated design philosophy for those legendary items in the first place.

Why are these ascended items necessary? What purpose do they serve? Are you making these available because our current stats in full exotic gear are too low, and you need to increase them for balance purposes? If so, then why not just…increase the stats on exotic gear?

Are you making these available for your Infusion mechanic (Which, from what I’ve been told is a holdover from GW1)? If so, then why not just…add infusion slots to exotic gear?

I’ve tried to come up with a logical explanation as to why this Ascended gear is necessary, and I’m only able to come up with one: Because you, as a company, now believe that Verticle Gear Progression is necessary for the long term survival of Guild Wars 2, and the Ascended gear is the beginning of your Verticle Gear Progression. No other explanation I can come up with makes sense. Maybe I’m wrong, and maybe I’m not clever enough to come up with the real reason, but if that’s the case, please, by all means, correct me.

Because otherwise, I’m done with this game. I’ve played the Tiered Gear Progression game before, and I’ve stopped playing MMOs with that sort of gear progression precisely because I hated what it did to those games. And I’m not saying that as someone who played at a low point in that gear progression, I’m saying that as someone who was, at the time, the hardest of the hardcore, leading high end raiding guilds into dungeons for an amount of time every week that essentially amounted to a second full time job.

Guild Wars 2 was a huge breath of fresh air. I loved the feeling of getting my first level 80 a full set of exotic gear with all the runes and sigils I needed, and then going skin hunting to get that character looking exactly the way I wanted. I liked the thought that no matter what content came along, I was ready for it, and I wouldn’t need any new gear, but I might be interested in new weapon or armor skins that come along to improve the look of my character. I loved that my only reason for doing anything in the game was that I wanted to do it, and not that I felt that I needed to do it so that I can be certain that I’ll be able to do any new content that comes along. I loved that no one ever had to ask me what my gear was like in order to determine if I’d be a good addition to their group, because everyone was wearing the same level of gear.

And most importantly of all…I loved that I could create alt characters without feeling like my original, main character was falling behind in any way.

But no more.

And with that, the feeling of the game has suddenly changed. When I login to Guild Wars 2 after this announcement, I don’t feel free, I don’t feel like I’ll be able to do anything I want in the game anymore. Instead, I feel constrained, and unhappy. The life, and fun, has been sucked out of the game with the mere announcement of a new tier of gear.

Please, I beg of you ArenaNet, please reconsider this change. I’ve spent a lot of money on this game so far, happily, without regret, because I supported what you were doing, and the philosophy behind your game and its design. But I don’t think I’ll be able to do that any longer if you go forward with this.

penatbater.4710:

I’m pretty sure we will see soon “LFM frac level 10 only, must have asc”. It kinda reminds me of “LFM cof explo war/guardians only please!” except the difference is, the latter is made by a group of noobs who don’t realize you can ideally complete any dungeon with any prof mix-up, and the latter can really be a real, scary, valid reason.

Don’t forget the “Must have minimum Tier 3 Infusion!”
In a game that proudly denounced “LF1M Healer, no CC”. Quite sad I must say.

Rhyaehar.9504:

penatbater.4710:

I’m pretty sure we will see soon “LFM frac level 10 only, must have asc”. It kinda reminds me of “LFM cof explo war/guardians only please!” except the difference is, the latter is made by a group of noobs who don’t realize you can ideally complete any dungeon with any prof mix-up, and the latter can really be a real, scary, valid reason.

Don’t forget the “Must have minimum Tier 3 Infusion!”
In a game that proudly denounced “LF1M Healer, no CC”. Quite sad I must say.

What’s next? Bringing back the holy trinity? Hell it would be better than this flawed dungeon design philosophy that they have now.

Zoid.2568:

The new dungeons are for hardcore endgame players. You don’t have to do any of the content, you can sit in a corner in Divinitys Reach if you want. It’s ok.

I don’t think I’ve ever said this before, but please just go back to WoW with that junk.

Please, Anet, don’t go back on 7+ years of design philosophy just to please these un-pleasable ignoramuses.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

This is from Chris Whiteside:
Our Studio Design Director Chris Whiteside just posted this:
“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.
Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.
Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.
Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores."
Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

While I think everyone appreciates some response, this response doesn’t actually allay any of our concerns.

It mentions bridging the gap between exotic and legendary. However, there is currently no statistical gap, as they are identical.

Implementing this tier of ascended gear is in fact creating a gap between exotic and legendary.

That’s why many of us are scratching out heads at the nature of the response. It uses a lot of words, but never presents evidence that the design approach remains the same.

In essence, it proposes a solution to a problem that’s only created by implementing the solution.

Lack of players/people quitting/becoming inactive is killing this game. It takes forever to get a group of people together to do dungeons. I rather work for my armor than just throw real money at it but it’s tempting.

saurus.8290:

you guys didnt played gw1

agony system was in gw1 and that was released 2 years before lotro

lotro tried to copy it and failed becouse different game mechanics

Infusion in GW1 was not even close to being the same. It was part of the main story and a painless one at that. You didn’t have to grind for it or anything of the sort. It was basically killing one mob, bringing an item it drops to an NPC and you’re done.

Moreover, heroes and pets in GW1 were always infused so you can potentially beat the whole campaign without even getting infused yourself.

Most importantly, Infusion in GW1 did not require a a new set of armor. It was automatically applied to your existing armor.

Magiofdeath.2745:

I like GW1 more than GW2 because of this but I’m willing to accept changes.

Why?

As far as I have seen, this thread is filled with peope who are not willing to accept those changes, partially because they say that ArenaNet convinced them prior to the release that this is not gonna be the way. In other words, there are pleny people to stand behind here and you cannot say that your words have no weight here and that nothing can be changed.

I think that at this point I can safely say that the only reason why this thread is still running the discussion is because be do believe that something can be changed. At the very least, ANet was known to be a dev team that listened to the games throughout 7 years. Until that is proven otherwise too, we would want to believe that that mentality still exists somewhere deep there.

I think it’s absolutely awesome:)

The Ascended gear will be craftable. Relax.

Snerf.1650:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

This is from Chris Whiteside:
Our Studio Design Director Chris Whiteside just posted this:
“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.
Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.
Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.
Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores."
Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

While I think everyone appreciates some response, this response doesn’t actually allay any of our concerns.

It mentions bridging the gap between exotic and legendary. However, there is currently no statistical gap, as they are identical.

Implementing this tier of ascended gear is in fact creating a gap between exotic and legendary.

That’s why many of us are scratching out heads at the nature of the response. It uses a lot of words, but never presents evidence that the design approach remains the same.

In essence, it proposes a solution to a problem that’s only created by implementing the solution.

A riddle wrapped up in an enigma, if you will.

Lothair.8942:

Snerf.1650:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

This is from Chris Whiteside:
Our Studio Design Director Chris Whiteside just posted this:
“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.
Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.
Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.
Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores."
Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

While I think everyone appreciates some response, this response doesn’t actually allay any of our concerns.

It mentions bridging the gap between exotic and legendary. However, there is currently no statistical gap, as they are identical.

Implementing this tier of ascended gear is in fact creating a gap between exotic and legendary.

That’s why many of us are scratching out heads at the nature of the response. It uses a lot of words, but never presents evidence that the design approach remains the same.

In essence, it proposes a solution to a problem that’s only created by implementing the solution.

A riddle wrapped up in an enigma, if you will.

The communists had a manifesto too, and look how that turned out…

Snerf.1650:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

This is from Chris Whiteside:
Our Studio Design Director Chris Whiteside just posted this:
“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.
Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.
Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.
Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores."
Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

While I think everyone appreciates some response, this response doesn’t actually allay any of our concerns.

It mentions bridging the gap between exotic and legendary. However, there is currently no statistical gap, as they are identical.

Implementing this tier of ascended gear is in fact creating a gap between exotic and legendary.

That’s why many of us are scratching out heads at the nature of the response. It uses a lot of words, but never presents evidence that the design approach remains the same.

In essence, it proposes a solution to a problem that’s only created by implementing the solution.

That guy should apply and work at the State Department. I wonder why he is at ANET w/ gaming nerds. A whole lot of words with no response to the problem at all. Can’t beat that.

lol @ ANET.

What I really don’t understand at this point is why they think there’s any sort of gap between exotics and legendaries. There isn’t one in statistics, and there isn’t one in effort spent trying to obtain the items. That’s what named exotics are for, a bridge of the gap in time and effort.

Sure, getting a basic set of no-name exotic armor takes little time (though, from my semi-casual perspective it was a lot of money), but if I wanted something with a name, it’d be a lot of work. That’s basically how GW1 worked, and the system was good. Why the change?

I personally feel that this whole shoe horned “tier” is an attempt to increase GEM Shop sales of these:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Transmutation_Stone

You want to keep up with the progression of the game? Sure you do, that’s why you bought it. You worked pretty hard for the exotic gear, runes & sigils you’re wearing right? Sure you did, you even ignored some Legendary items because your Exotics looked better (you thought you had that option).

What do you do when you have your new Ascended Gear, but you hate how it looks?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Transmutation_Stone

=\

SLuG.3085:

Yams.3859:

I haven’t read all 147 pages of posts, so apologies if this has already been suggested before:

ANet is a company. Numbers talk to them. At this point, we can reasonably expect Ascended items to make their way into the update this weekend and we may better illustrate our disapproval through actions.

For those who are not happy with the stat increase, why don’t we decide on a day where no one logs into the game for a day? A weekend day (say Saturday Nov 24, one week after the content update, starting GMT 0:00 for 24 hours) would have the largest impact as player logins are highest. The benefits are two-fold:
1) For those claiming that this direction alienates a majority of the playerbase, ANet will have some concrete numbers to work with. It could be the case that much of what we see here is grandstanding and we are all happily chasing giant crabs to care, or ANet might see a 50% drop in playerbase for that period.
2) Talk is cheap. If we all feel as strongly about this as the forum posts suggest, we need to do more than complain.

This is only a suggestion and we should decide on its merits or lack-thereof after this weekend once we have a better idea of how frequently Ascended loop drops and what the Infusions are.

Just some thoughts.

I actually posted something similar earlier in the thread. I’ll post it again:

One thing people should do to show their disagreement with these new changes, is not log into the game at all this weekend when the new patch is released. It might not have the biggest effect but it’s something. If you feel this “Ascended Patch Weekend Boycott”, or whatever you wanna call it, is something you’re interested in, use some willpower and absolutely DO NOT log in at all this weekend. Don’t even log in for the Main Event on Sunday. Just go do something else and put it out of your mind. It’s not much, but at least it’s something.

I don’t believe we should boycott the game this weekend. It all sounds really bad now, and we should use this weekend to see if it’s actually bad. Then we can use the following week to put in an organized effort.

On the other hand, if Ascended gear drops like the Ghostly Tonics in AC (I get a lot of those, sadly) then I don’t think it will be a significant issue. I take exception to ANet forcing us to buy more Fine Transmutation stones, and may “QQ moar” to try to get them to provide every toon with 6 fine stones or the equivalent in gems for reskinning.

I had not played any MMORPG’s before the Guild Wars 1 series, but what I really, really loved there was that it was fairly easy, fast and cheap getting my characters ready to go. I could use any of my characters in any of the expansions, content level and area for the most part, because of the same level cap and standard gear rating between the campaigns. And since it was fairly easy to get characters up to speed it was never any concern trying out different classes and roles, and never having to think about the expenses on armor or weapons or whatsoever to make characters manage and cope, and get access to most game content.

Guild Wars 1 left no toon behind

(From a general point of view I wish it could be easier to try out different classes, gear and traits in GW2. For example be able to try out different gear without paying “big bucks” for it, and maybe just have to discard it later if it doesn’t work out like you thought, salvage runes and sigils without breaking the item and change traits without needing to go to a profession trainer. That would maybe add a little more dynamic to the dynamic and RPG to the RPG)

So if ArenaNet wants Guild Wars 2 to be a role playing game, and not a gear grinding game, shouldn’t they preserve the ease for experimenting and make it less an effort for players to try out different classes, roles and content. After all GW2 is a RPG – and if they want to change the course of action, it would be nice to know.

Even though I have seen some “reassurements” from some that the Ascended quality is a onetime occurrence from i.a. the response from Chris Whiteside:

“Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two"

“We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.”

- Linsey Murdock says in "Linsey Murdock Unveils New High End Ascended Gear” :

“As we watch Guild Wars 2 mature in its Live environment, we have found that our most dedicated players were achieving their set of Exotic gear and hitting “the Legendary wall.” We designed the process of getting Legendary gear to be a long term goal, but players were ready to start on that path much sooner than we expected and were becoming frustrated with a lack of personal progression. Our desire is to create a game that is more inclusive for hardcore and casual players alike, but we don’t want to overlook the basic need for players to feel like they are progressing and growing even after hitting max level. Adding item progression is a delicate process normally undertaken in an expansion, but we feel it’s important to strive to satisfy the basic needs of our players sooner rather than later.”

From what I can tell the two are literary saying different things and that Ascended quality items are introduced to please some players (the majority?) who want personal (item) progression. If ArenaNet wants to please players in the future by item-progression and better stats on items to strive for, is the right and democratic thing to do – if that is what most players want.

Sure games change, and some say that it’s nothing to be upset about until it’s implemented and we all have to see how it goes. But anyway it would be nice to know the rules of the game (they are already there, but not clearly spoken), so I can better decide if I want to play the game by those rules in the future. I’d rather not spend time and money on something that maybe turns out to be something else than I expected. I would like to try out as much content with as many classes and roles as possible, and already find it hard enough as it is – Extra Character Slot? – Thanks, But No Thanks.
So if there’s a risk that ArenaNet will make it even more difficult with the new qualities or whatever “necessary” items and increasing stats cap in later expansions as Linsay Murdock states in the article, then I’d like to know this for 100% sure, and I want to know it today.

I haven’t quite understood the Legendary versus Ascended debate yet, since the comparison is between Exotic and Ascended stats on a Magic Find ring in the example from the article. Is there going to be Ascended weapons as well, or how do you even compare a Legendary weapon and balance that with a Exotic or Ascended ring? To be honest I think the debate is an absolutely mess, at least for me. And I have lost the overview a long time ago.

I think I’ll go back to Old Ascalon for a while where my love for Guild Wars started , and clear up my mind with a req 9 Longbow and a Armor Rating of 70. Old folks often say it was better in the Good Old Days, I think I know what they mean…

Here is yet another unknown voice sounding off in disappointment over the addition of ascended gear with “improved” statistics. We already have several tiers of gear in the game which (at level 80, anyway) serve no purpose beyond being vendor/mystic forge/salvage fodder. Exotic is the only equipment tier that is held in any real demand as it is simply better than the rest. As Ascended items replace their Exotic counterparts, we will gain another tier of items that no one really wants. This is not a good thing.

Fractal dungeons are a fantastic idea; agony and higher stats for a new tier of gear, not so much.

This is a travesty and the only reason that I bought this game in the first place was by the word of the devs that there would be no vertical gear escalation/creep. If I wanted that garbage, I could have stayed with WOW or Warhammer. If they do implement this, I have no cause ever to trust them again as they lied.

Am I the only one looking forward to this gear? First off, there’s only going to be a ring and a back slot initially, so all the doomsayers can cease their worrying. Secondly, it provides level 80 players with some new goals to achieve. Goodness forbid you should actually have something to look forward to in a game.

As it stands, this new gear won’t provide any major benefits over Exotic gear aside from the ability to survive the new dungeons and some slight stat increase. Judging by the images, it’s soulbound on acquisition, so won’t impact the economy and likely only acquired by having taken part in the new Fractals areas, which you’ll probably want exotics for anyway.

For all the MMO games which have a logical progression of gear, you’re really getting your rage on when Guild Wars follows suit.

One more vote against adding the Ascended gear. I think this is a horrible idea. Please reconsider.

btw – This is my first forum post for GW2. MMO forums are usually full of so much trolling and negativity that I try to avoid them completely. However, I think this is important enough that I wanted to add my 2 cents.

Blacksarevok.8104:

JBleezz.2697:

they made it clear dungeon running won’t be the only means of acquiring the gear and that they will be adding more ways to get it including WvW

They said “eventually”. Which could be months or years for all we know.

As for OP, I agree. I’m not a fan of the dungeons in this game, and making that the only way to currently get Ascended gear is crap.

they also said that this patch will only include rings and back pieces. The back pieces gotten by the mystic forge so potentially no dungeon running required. And I don’t even believe they said that the rings would be attainable in the dungeon so really we don’t know yet.

krookie.6378:

saurus.8290:

you guys didnt played gw1

agony system was in gw1 and that was released 2 years before lotro

lotro tried to copy it and failed becouse different game mechanics

Infusion in GW1 was not even close to being the same. It was part of the main story and a painless one at that. You didn’t have to grind for it or anything of the sort. It was basically killing one mob, bringing an item it drops to an NPC and you’re done.

Moreover, heroes and pets in GW1 were always infused so you can potentially beat the whole campaign without even getting infused yourself.

Most importantly, Infusion in GW1 did not require a a new set of armor. It was automatically applied to your existing armor.

Exactly… and…

People seem to have forgotten what infusion was designed for. Infusion was designed to completely stop players from completing the campaign if they were able to skip through a huge amount of content by crossing Lornar’s Pass (Beacon’s Perch to Droknar’s Forge runs). Only by beating your doppelganger and acquiring ascension could you infuse, which then let you complete the game and gain access to Ring of Fire, which is crawling with Mursaat.

In other words, infusion and ascension had nothing to do with your ability to play. It was just a requirement to beat the campaign.

krookie.6378:

saurus.8290:

you guys didnt played gw1

agony system was in gw1 and that was released 2 years before lotro

lotro tried to copy it and failed becouse different game mechanics

Infusion in GW1 was not even close to being the same. It was part of the main story and a painless one at that. You didn’t have to grind for it or anything of the sort. It was basically killing one mob, bringing an item it drops to an NPC and you’re done.

Moreover, heroes and pets in GW1 were always infused so you can potentially beat the whole campaign without even getting infused yourself.

Most importantly, Infusion in GW1 did not require a a new set of armor. It was automatically applied to your existing armor.

Actually, it was a bit of a grind when GW1 released. When the game first came out, each run to the Seer and Abomination only infused 1 piece of armor. The mission outpost chat in the first week(s?) of the game was all either “Infusion Run” or “GLF fully infused”. And, of course, there were no Heroes back then, just terrible AI henchmen.

Anet fortunately quickly realized how horribly stupid it was, and changed the infusion to infuse all pieces of armor, not just once per run.

That small piece of pedantry aside, the comments are correct – Infusion in the original game only gated a few storyline missions. Infusion was never needed for later “end game” content like Underworld, Fissure of Woe, or Sorrows Furnance.

“The only way to mitigate Agony damage is by building up resistance through Infusions, a new type of upgrade component that can be acquired in the Mystic Forge.” – Lindsay Murdock

I’m not a fan of adding another tier.

The above quote; however, really disturbs me. Anytime I hear ‘must use Mystic Forge’ I immediately assume the gem store is involved. I can see infusions easily requiring materials that will require (in reality) people to buy keys to open BLC’s or Mystic Shards or whatever.

The reality is, this whole process establishes a new revenue chain through gear progression for ANet. It’s called milking the cow, people. Get used to it. It’s what ‘free-to-play’ really means… paying $50/mo instead of $15/mo to remain competitive.

Upsetting.

Joiry.2504:

krookie.6378:

saurus.8290:

you guys didnt played gw1

agony system was in gw1 and that was released 2 years before lotro

lotro tried to copy it and failed becouse different game mechanics

Infusion in GW1 was not even close to being the same. It was part of the main story and a painless one at that. You didn’t have to grind for it or anything of the sort. It was basically killing one mob, bringing an item it drops to an NPC and you’re done.

Moreover, heroes and pets in GW1 were always infused so you can potentially beat the whole campaign without even getting infused yourself.

Most importantly, Infusion in GW1 did not require a a new set of armor. It was automatically applied to your existing armor.

Actually, it was a bit of a grind when GW1 released. When the game first came out, each run to the Seer and Abomination only infused 1 piece of armor. The mission outpost chat in the first week(s?) of the game was all either “Infusion Run” or “GLF fully infused”. And, of course, there were no Heroes back then, just terrible AI henchmen.

Anet fortunately quickly realized how horribly stupid it was, and changed the infusion to infuse all pieces of armor, not just once per run.

That small piece of pedantry aside, the comments are correct – Infusion in the original game only gated a few storyline missions. Infusion was never needed for later “end game” content like Underworld, Fissure of Woe, or Sorrows Furnance.

Exactly. Only ascension was needed. Ascension doesn’t even exist in GW2.

“Am I the only one looking forward to this gear? First off, there’s only going to be a ring and a back slot initially, so all the doomsayers can cease their worrying.”

Don’t worry, we’ll only cut off two fingers this week. Most of them will be fine. – Ignore that we said this week please, don’t panic.

" Secondly, it provides level 80 players with some new goals to achieve. Goodness forbid you should actually have something to look forward to in a game."

You didn’t have enough to do right now? As a level 80, I still have 10 characthers to level, and a bunch of named exotics and legendaries to get. That would keep me busy for years.

“it’s soulbound on acquisition, so won’t impact the economy and likely only acquired by having taken part in the new Fractals areas, which you’ll probably want exotics for anyway.”

Because it’s not grinding if it’s in a specific area. . . Wait. O.o

“For all the MMO games which have a logical progression of gear, you’re really getting your rage on when Guild Wars follows suit.”

Wait. Wait wait wait wait. You bought the MMO that says “not like all other MMOs” and “we go against the norm”, the MMO who’s whole selling point was NOT being like the others, and complain that we aren’t happy when they deceided “kitten it, let’s turn this into generic fantasy MMO 553!”

You know, I don’t think there’s a better time to say you need to find a different game. You are quite literally saying “I bought this game expecting a generic fantasy mmo, how DARE you not deliver!”

Fungalfoot.7213:

Even Blizzard removed content gating. It’s plain bad for the health of the game as it forces players to participate 24/7 or risk not being able to enjoy future content.

We have no idea how this is going to work. Until we actually get our hands on it, this thread is purely hearsay.

I’m more than confident in the assumption that ANet realizes that these systems were very similar, and I’m sure they have something unique up their sleeve that separates it from these previously failed systems.

Lemuria.3195:

Am I the only one looking forward to this gear? First off, there’s only going to be a ring and a back slot initially, so all the doomsayers can cease their worrying. Secondly, it provides level 80 players with some new goals to achieve. Goodness forbid you should actually have something to look forward to in a game.

As it stands, this new gear won’t provide any major benefits over Exotic gear aside from the ability to survive the new dungeons and some slight stat increase. Judging by the images, it’s soulbound on acquisition, so won’t impact the economy and likely only acquired by having taken part in the new Fractals areas, which you’ll probably want exotics for anyway.

For all the MMO games which have a logical progression of gear, you’re really getting your rage on when Guild Wars follows suit.

So here’s the thing. I understand how people have come to the understanding that progression in gear is a good thing, but ANet proved in GW1 that it absolutely isn’t necessary, and that a lot of fun can be had when you eliminate the treadmill. After getting to the highest tier, you work to be a better player. Adding better gear doesn’t give players something to look forward to, it gives them a chore, something they feel they have to do before they can “play the game.”

People are raging because ArenaNet promised us a way out and then shut the door

Lemuria.3195:

Am I the only one looking forward to this gear? First off, there’s only going to be a ring and a back slot initially, so all the doomsayers can cease their worrying. Secondly, it provides level 80 players with some new goals to achieve. Goodness forbid you should actually have something to look forward to in a game.

As it stands, this new gear won’t provide any major benefits over Exotic gear aside from the ability to survive the new dungeons and some slight stat increase. Judging by the images, it’s soulbound on acquisition, so won’t impact the economy and likely only acquired by having taken part in the new Fractals areas, which you’ll probably want exotics for anyway.

For all the MMO games which have a logical progression of gear, you’re really getting your rage on when Guild Wars follows suit.

First off, there’s only going to be a ring and a back slot initially, so all the doomsayers can cease their worrying.
People who are opposed to vertical progression, for different reasons, really don’t care it “it’s just a ring initially” when it’s already confirmed other slots and tiers will come.

Goodness forbid you should actually have something to look forward to in a game. Not everyone is looking forward to constant gear improvement. Heavens forbit someone looked forward to something else in the game than you!

As it stands, this new gear won’t provide any major benefits over Exotic 8% in stats increase plus ability to Infuse. Both Infusion and tiers of Ascended gear will be further built on to provide more benefits.

For all the MMO games which have a logical progression of gear, you’re really getting your rage on when Guild Wars follows suit.
GW2 was meant not to be like other MMOs. It was advertised as the game to end vertical progression and all the other silly things other games took for granted. You did not read the label when you bought the game?

Re. this part of the statement:

We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards.

My trust, which was dwindling, is gone. This game was heavily marketed as being about story, adventure, exploration and, I dunno, ‘epicness’. I didn’t sign on to a rat maze with new varieties of cheese being wafted in my face all the time. I don’t give a flying fig about ‘rewards’ beyond being given what is necessary to move on and customise my character a bit.

I’m not a rat. I’m a human being. And I’m off to play something where the playing is the reward in itself, not a means to an end.

Lemuria.3195:

For all the MMO games which have a logical progression of gear, you’re really getting your rage on when Guild Wars follows suit.

Um, yes?

I feel cheated and lied to. It honestly feels as is if someone stole all the money out of my wallet. I don’t know how else to put it.

The forum police need to seriously back off. They are completely crossing the line.

The other issue is they are putting this in to supposedly give us something to work towards between exotic and legendary, but they are going to continue to offer multiple avenues to get it. That means it does not solve the original problem.

Exotics are easy to get BY DESIGN. Because there are multiple paths to them it’s never going to be truly hard to get them. The only thing that slows you down is a bit of grinding mats/karma/dungeons/badges. Now if Ascended items are going to have multiple paths to get them, they are going to be acquired just as quickly as Exotics are. And Legendaries are STILL going to be far more difficult, obnoxious, and expensive to get.

As I said earlier I’m less irritated now that I know the gear will not be exclusive to dungeons, but I still fail to see what gap in the original design they are filling.

There is plenty to do at 80 that doesn’t revolve around gear. I have zero interest in any of the legendaries at the moment, and I’ve been geared for weeks. I’ve been bouncing between making fashionable alt-spec gear sets, dungeons, WVW, mat farming, sPvP, puzzles and alts, and I’ve been having a blast. I’m currently sitting on 220k+ karma, and bugger all gold. (I’ve been dressing up the alts in Cultural and faction gear.)

If the need was to give the lamers something else to grind for they could have accomplished this with new gear with Exotic stats and an infusion slot. yet for some unfathomable reason they decided to creep the stats upward.

What I don’t get, in this day and age where the social reputation of a company is so kitten important to maintain and retain its client base – why would a company flat-out and blatantly lie, mislead and withhold the truth?

The manifesto & many, many interviews (which have all been linked here) have shown that what they are doing now is strictly against what they were trying to promote as their game, the game they made us fall in love with and want to be a part of.

Now with the Lindsay and Chris responses and a whole lot more rhetoric – this company is being dragged through the mud by many social outlets, gaming web sites and more important, by their loyal customers.

This isn’t only harmful for their current customers, this is absolutely devastating for any potential new customers. I brought many people to this game with the impression that once they hit 80 and obtained “max-level” gear, there would be no use for PVE and we could merrily WvW to our hearts content – guess what? I jumped in game last night and was met with a mob of angry people who wanted to talk to me about the direction this game is going. You know what, where I would have defended you in the past, I joined right in with the bashing – because quite honestly I am fed up. I’m contemplating quitting – I know I’ve already lost a lot of my friends with this news and I’m sure communities will shrink even further.

I may or may not be of the majority, but I know how I feel and if this game turns into what I think it will, I’ll just uninstall and move on.
I know for a fact I won’t spend any more RL money on this game – I’m done with that. I don’t support companies that lie & mislead their customers.

I’m sure this will get lost in the shuffle of merging and sweeping under the rug, but I wanted to get that off my chest and be done with it. Thanks.

I don’t understand where all this rage is coming from. Progression is very important in an MMO, but raid-style grinds are an awful way to go about it. I have a feeling ANet thinks the same way.

This added layer of gear allows you to keep doing the things you have been doing and loved since launch. I’m excited, my friends are excited. I just don’t get the rage. People fear change, I guess.

Everyone I have talked to in-game ranges from excited to indifferent about the Ascended armor. This makes me believe the extremely loud complaints are actually from an exceedingly small representation of the player-base. When people are satisfied with something, they generally don’t go out of their way to write about it.

+1 because I feel the same way, bought this game mainly for wvw, and we’re not exactly getting updates for wvw anytime soon.
3200 for the whole set? no thank you. Was going to buy a character slot this month and decided not to.

They attempt to pawn this off as if it was character development when in fact it’s simply gear progression which is plain and simply not what this game advertised. They stated what legendary was. It was a digital representation of time invested in the game. It was never meant to be a statistical advantage in any way shape or form.

This is basically bait and switch.

“We have no idea how this is going to work. Until we actually get our hands on it, this thread is purely hearsay.”

Hearsay from the developer’s mouths.

The best part is them completely ignoring the community and just going ahead with it anyway. They’ve really gone full Blizzard and it’s depressing. Embarrassing too given their row row fight the power launch trailer

Erebus Delirium.4892:

I don’t understand where all this rage is coming from. Progression is very important in an MMO, but raid-style grinds are an awful way to go about it. I have a feeling ANet thinks the same way.

This added layer of gear allows you to keep doing the things you have been doing and loved since launch. I’m excited, my friends are excited. I just don’t get the rage. People fear change, I guess.

Everyone I have talked to in-game ranges from excited to indifferent about the Ascended armor. This makes me believe the extremely loud complaints are actually from an exceedingly small representation of the player-base. When people are satisfied with something, they generally don’t go out of their way to write about it.

Progression does not have to mean new armor tiers. It didn’t happen in GW1, and they said it wouldn’t happen here