Guild Wars 2

MrDmajor.7084:

Lemuria.3195:

For all the MMO games which have a logical progression of gear, you’re really getting your rage on when Guild Wars follows suit.

Um, yes?

Thank you. I never understood why people think it’s “logical progression” when an developer makes their gear obsolete to milk money out of subscriptions.

Erebus Delirium.4892:

I don’t understand where all this rage is coming from. Progression is very important in an MMO, but raid-style grinds are an awful way to go about it. I have a feeling ANet thinks the same way.

This added layer of gear allows you to keep doing the things you have been doing and loved since launch. I’m excited, my friends are excited. I just don’t get the rage. People fear change, I guess.

Everyone I have talked to in-game ranges from excited to indifferent about the Ascended armor. This makes me believe the extremely loud complaints are actually from an exceedingly small representation of the player-base. When people are satisfied with something, they generally don’t go out of their way to write about it.

Do you HONESTLY think people are against “progression” or the fact they would shoe horn a tier between Exotic & Legendary stats for no good reason after telling everyone “Exotics = Legendary stat wise… don’t worry”. You really really can not fathom why people would be a little miffed at being told one thing to entice purchase , then getting switched upon purchase?

Erebus Delirium.4892:

This added layer of gear allows you to keep doing the things you have been doing and loved since launch.

Ellaborate. I don’t know how it has anything to do with things like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5IUm-Dt60U
This is what we were doing in Guild Wars.

This is what you are doing in WoW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pceMK9Fxz3U

I don’t see the connection.
I think you were misinterpreting Guild Wars.
Guild Wars was a game about several different levels of fun. Not illusionarry carrot progress.

I’d just like to add in my personal opinions in regards to my immediate reaction to Ascended armor.

I am really not looking forward to having to work to achieve yet another set of armor to replace the one I currently have after spending hours acquiring stat-appearance-runes I wanted. Spending those fine transmutes to finish my overall appearance to my satisfaction. (Yes I’m aware the armor set pieces won’t be until later but however they are coming.) I’d rather devout my time to enjoying the game without having to endure the NEED to climb a gear ladder.

Looking forward to the new content, not looking forward to having to get gear to enjoy said content to its fullest potential. Not looking forward to having to reacquire stats that I otherwise thought I wouldn’t have to worry about anymore.

Endgame should be all about freedom of options, not necessity.

GADefence.5634:

“We have no idea how this is going to work. Until we actually get our hands on it, this thread is purely hearsay.”

Hearsay from the developer’s mouths.

I’m sorry, where did a developer explain exactly how we’d acquire the ascended gear? There is absolutely no reason to assume that the way to acquire this new gear is going to be ANYTHING like LOTRO or WoW. That was my point.

Unless you know something I don’t, why assume the worst? Like I said, they may have something unique up their sleeve that sets this system apart from the others.

" It’s a true challenge, but as you hit higher and higher scales, the dungeon will get more and more rewarding. You’ll have to have some serious skills and solid tactics to make it through these Fractals. After a certain point, our new Ascended items and Infusions become crucial tools for survival"

“Ascended gear works a little bit differently than other gear types. The stats and functionality normally added to gear through upgrade components are actually built into Ascended items. Instead of upgrade slots, Ascended gear has Infusion slots, and rarer versions of the items also come with additional Agony Resistance built into them. Players will be able to acquire Ascended Rings in the Fractals of the Mists dungeon, and Ascended items worn on the back can be acquired through special Mystic Forge recipes.”

AKA: Farm fractals to farm fractals more.

Fungalfoot.7213:

The best part is them completely ignoring the community and just going ahead with it anyway. They’ve really gone full Blizzard and it’s depressing. Embarrassing too given their row row fight the power launch trailer

Never go full blizzard.

Zoid.2568:

The new dungeons are for hardcore endgame players. You don’t have to do any of the content, you can sit in a corner in Divinitys Reach if you want. It’s ok.

People said exactly the same about radiance in LOTRO when it was introduced. “If you’re not a hardcore raider, you don’t need to grind radiance”. And yet after some time the casual masses did catch up with the radiance raids and were hit by the grind.

When I read the article about Agony, Radiance in LOTRO instantly came to my mind. Can’t be a coincidence.

Magiofdeath.2745:

Where was all this outcry of 150 pages when skill points, temple of balthazar, etc was practically continually bugged for over a month after release? I don’t get this community – there was game breaking bugs in the game for over a month after release and there wasn’t a single thread that was 150 pages worth of people complaining about that (I did complain about that because it was a problem) and now they add a new tier of gear and there’s a thread that has amassed 150 pages of outcry. This new tier seems infinitesimal to the game breaking bugs the game had for a month, and which are still present to some small degree with PS, etc. I just don’t get it – can someone please explain that to me?

I gladly will explain it to you. In the case of bugs. We were being patient expecting that they would be hard at work fixing the bugs and getting things balanced. We were giving them time to get things addressed. They said it was a priority.

Instead what we find out is that they instead were working hard on adding content that will instead make their statement that Exotics were end gear and that legendary equipment would be looks only and not stat vertical stats in any way shape and form.

This was what was working as intended when someone would get a legendary weapon and then reskin it onto a weapon with the stats they wanted.

Now they have basically done a bait and switch with a core bit of the players that want no part in gear progression. Character progression can occur without stat increases.

Stat increases are false and cheap methods of improving gameplay. Making tactics and story and fun gameplay are the ways to improve character progression but apparently that takes more work then they chose to go.

Freohr.7905:

Fungalfoot.7213:

The best part is them completely ignoring the community and just going ahead with it anyway. They’ve really gone full Blizzard and it’s depressing. Embarrassing too given their row row fight the power launch trailer

Never go full blizzard.

It is as embarrassing as the “you are not in azeroth” fiasco

It’s my understanding that during the time Radiance was introduced and ultimately removed, Turbine went through a number of lay-offs and financial turmoil trying to secure venture capital. The neglect is evident in the drop-off of quality from Moria to Isengard and as the OP mentioned, eventual move to F2P.

LotRO was always a grind oriented game from the time it went gold up until now. Apparently they scrapped initial plans to be original and went the safe route(a la SWTOR).. utilizing an all too familiar gear grind system. GW2 and it’s predecessor never started with that premise. So long as Arenanet doesn’t continually dangle a new carrot from a stick, we’re in good hands.

After reading the comments by Chris Whiteside, I can fully say I don’t support adding the Ascended tier.

The orange tier is already a steeper climb than max stat gw1. All tiers below max stat are effectively useless merchant or salvage fodder in a game with such speedy progression. The speedy progression is good, but this feels like a case of GW having split identity… wanting to have it’s cake and eat it too. There are too many sub-optimal tiers already. Which washes out the optimal tiers and make the rarity from drops overly high. I feel the rarity of yellow should be the rarity of max stat as it stands. This exagerates that. It exagerates the poor up-leveling for WvW. It exagerates the overpowered downleveling in PvE. There are better ways to solve the issue of a high but absolute progression bar than adding a tier. It also adds convolution to an already convoluted gear system. If this infused mechanic must be added, there are better ways to add it than this.

The mechanic should focus on ways that keep maxed players interested in playing. This is a band-aid approach to fixing a larger problem. While it will add more convelution or interesting mechanics (choose from the previous terms depending on your perspective), it’s still creating a new max progression wall. GW1 had less of a complaint of no end game, and I belive this was an outcome of larger factors. Farmers could sell max appearance gear (or all the components for other players to get it themselves). This kept them playing to just get more and more rich, even if there wasn’t a point to it all. I am not attracted to that feature, just saying it had a certain camp of people playing longer. GW1 build system involved no money sink to experament, and that experamenting gave way to amazing builds, personal ownership of builds (for those who didn’t simply look up builds). It was harder to balance, but it helped the longevity for some people. I was attracted to this feature. The larger issue isn’t a need to add this tier, it’s that a combination of the mentioned things, and otehr things from GW1 helped sustain it. For example, while it may be great you can’t build these crazy builds, that the pve doesn’t facilitate solo farming masses in the same way, that so much high end glamour gear is soul/account bound, it all comes together to make an environment when people will play less once they hit the max stat wall. All those things may be theoretically great on their own, but they all take something away too, and the sum in this rare case is not greater than the sum of it’s parts. But continued grind shouldn’t be the solution either (like it might sound like I’m supporting). Unfortunately, it’s what keeps many playing beyond the wall. PvP is a great way to sustain beyond a wall, but not everyone is interested in that. PvE gameplay is what should be fixed. Not elevating the PvE wall. Or creating more convelution where you will need different gear for all high end things (which would bore you quicker of the game I’d think, if you just went for the optimal end game gear farm, and not the variety). The dynamic events and skill use systems are great. The build system I’m not a fan of. But play to the strengths. Improve unique challenges for dynamic events. Improve event re-starting chains. Don’t be afraid to create instances for exploratory areas where event chains are more impactful for solo or small group play. Add a major boss to each explorable zone that doesn’t have one. Add alternate weapon skills for you to slot, which require a more task oriented achievement instead of resource gathering achievement. Add gear that has no stat, but changes the visuals of certain skills used that have a scavenger hunt means of attaining. I’m not saying which of these are ideas i’d really like to see in the game, and which are just mind farts. But the point is, the evolution of mechanics should be something more than just a new wall creation. Even if this is the only wall ever created. I’m sorry, but I just don’t see that a place ticking away 100 damage per second for each non-infusion, or an enemy only being reasonably vulnerable to ascended damage will do what this update attempts to accomplish. It’s a really cool mechanic for an isolated dungeon experience. For example, run past task A to get to task B. Task B infuses you so you can destroy baddies in task A. But make it an instance thing where you must do task B then A each time you do that dungeon path.

chronus.1326:

Erebus Delirium.4892:

This added layer of gear allows you to keep doing the things you have been doing and loved since launch.

Ellaborate. I don’t know how it has anything to do with things like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5IUm-Dt60U
This is what we were doing in Guild Wars.

This is what you are doing in WoW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pceMK9Fxz3U

I don’t see the connection.
I think you were misinterpreting Guild Wars.
Guild Wars was a game about several different levels of fun. Not illusionarry carrot progress.

Your response to my post is nothing more than a few egregious red herrings. The only way this even relates to what I wrote is the fact that you quoted it.

But you did, however, ask me to elaborate on what fun things you have been doing in Guild Wars TWO since the beginning. You’ve been leveling up, gearing up, and exploring new content. This next patch adds more gear and more content. Sooner or later we’ll probably get more levels or pseudo-levels which constitute something of a soft-cap.

They never promised not to add new gear, and they most certainly never promised a complete lack of character progression post-80. If that was the case, I would have never bought this game. Who wants an MMO that’s all carrot and no stick? I was sold on the fact that it’s MORE carrot and LESS stick.

After reading the comments by Chris Whiteside, I can fully say I don’t support adding the Ascended tier.

The orange tier is already a steeper climb than max stat gw1. All tiers below max stat are effectively useless merchant or salvage fodder in a game with such speedy progression. The speedy progression is good, but this feels like a case of GW having split identity… wanting to have it’s cake and eat it too. There are too many sub-optimal tiers already. Which washes out the optimal tiers and make the rarity from drops overly high. I feel the rarity of yellow should be the rarity of max stat as it stands. This exagerates that. It exagerates the poor up-leveling for WvW. It exagerates the overpowered downleveling in PvE. There are better ways to solve the issue of a high but absolute progression bar than adding a tier. It also adds convolution to an already convoluted gear system. If this infused mechanic must be added, there are better ways to add it than this.

The mechanic should focus on ways that keep maxed players interested in playing. This is a band-aid approach to fixing a larger problem. While it will add more convelution or interesting mechanics (choose from the previous terms depending on your perspective), it’s still creating a new max progression wall. GW1 had less of a complaint of no end game, and I belive this was an outcome of larger factors. Farmers could sell max appearance gear (or all the components for other players to get it themselves). This kept them playing to just get more and more rich, even if there wasn’t a point to it all. I am not attracted to that feature, just saying it had a certain camp of people playing longer. GW1 build system involved no money sink to experament, and that experamenting gave way to amazing builds, personal ownership of builds (for those who didn’t simply look up builds). It was harder to balance, but it helped the longevity for some people. I was attracted to this feature. The larger issue isn’t a need to add this tier, it’s that a combination of the mentioned things, and otehr things from GW1 helped sustain it. For example, while it may be great you can’t build these crazy builds, that the pve doesn’t facilitate solo farming masses in the same way, that so much high end glamour gear is soul/account bound, it all comes together to make an environment when people will play less once they hit the max stat wall. All those things may be theoretically great on their own, but they all take something away too, and the sum in this rare case is not greater than the sum of it’s parts. But continued grind shouldn’t be the solution either (like it might sound like I’m supporting). Unfortunately, it’s what keeps many playing beyond the wall. PvP is a great way to sustain beyond a wall, but not everyone is interested in that. PvE gameplay is what should be fixed. Not elevating the PvE wall. Or creating more convelution where you will need different gear for all high end things (which would bore you quicker of the game I’d think, if you just went for the optimal end game gear farm, and not the variety). The dynamic events and skill use systems are great. The build system I’m not a fan of. But play to the strengths. Improve unique challenges for dynamic events. Improve event re-starting chains. Don’t be afraid to create instances for exploratory areas where event chains are more impactful for solo or small group play. Add a major boss to each explorable zone that doesn’t have one. Add alternate weapon skills for you to slot, which require a more task oriented achievement instead of resource gathering achievement. Add gear that has no stat, but changes the visuals of certain skills used that have a scavenger hunt means of attaining. I’m not saying which of these are ideas i’d really like to see in the game, and which are just mind farts. But the point is, the evolution of mechanics should be something more than just a new wall creation. Even if this is the only wall ever created. I’m sorry, but I just don’t see that a place ticking away 100 damage per second for each non-infusion, or an enemy only being reasonably vulnerable to ascended damage will do what this update attempts to accomplish. It’s a really cool mechanic for an isolated dungeon experience. For example, run past task A to get to task B. Task B infuses you so you can destroy baddies in task A. But make it an instance thing where you must do task B then A each time you do that dungeon path.

Ebon.7641:

GADefence.5634:

“We have no idea how this is going to work. Until we actually get our hands on it, this thread is purely hearsay.”

Hearsay from the developer’s mouths.

I’m sorry, where did a developer explain exactly how we’d acquire the ascended gear? There is absolutely no reason to assume that the way to acquire this new gear is going to be ANYTHING like LOTRO or WoW. That was my point.

Unless you know something I don’t, why assume the worst? Like I said, they may have something unique up their sleeve that sets this system apart from the others.

Yes, Anet has something very clever up their sleeves, and meanwhile the negativity builds, the community tears at each other, etc.

All part of their master plan? So they can sit back smuggly with steepled fingers, cackling as the community continues afterwards with “I told you so” or “See!”

Hint – the items will be drops. Either the item itself, or a crafting material for the infusions and backpack in the mystic forge. Do I know this for certain. No. Do I know if the sun will explode tomorrow, no, but it probably won’t. But its an MMO, given the unoriginality of this system, do you really think there’s some clever method of acquisition that Anet is keeping secret?

Well I won’t say that I feel as if Arenanet pulled a bait and switch on me, however this whole gear progression thing they’ve cooked up does disappoint me. I participated in the MMO gear progression hamster wheel/skinner box several times over the years and got heartily sick of it. I hoped that GW2 wouldn’t degrade into that, yet now it seems likely that it will. Pity.

I am extremely disappointed in ArenaNet. Power creep is not what I signed on for. Power creep is what I thought I was getting away from.

What is going on over there?

Agony serves no actual purpose other than to shoehorn this so-called “progression” into the game. Of course, in MMORPGs, progress means +1 to players, +2 to everything else. I would rather have the kind of meaningful content we were promised: things to do, not stats to chase. Increasing numbers is not content and the extreme cheapness of Agony/Infusions, which sounds carbon copied from the (failed!) Gloom/Radiance of LOTRO seems almost like the devs literally saying “here, rats, run in your maze!” Even WoW realized resist gear was a mistake. This sounds awful.

I feel betrayed. I will not be buying gems any longer. I will not be inviting friends. I will not recommend ArenaNet in the future. Do you really think so little of us, ANet?

Do you really think the people who insulted your game and left it are going to return because you offer them a ring?

Drunken Mad King.8193:

They attempt to pawn this off as if it was character development when in fact it’s simply gear progression which is plain and simply not what this game advertised. They stated what legendary was. It was a digital representation of time invested in the game. It was never meant to be a statistical advantage in any way shape or form.

This is basically bait and switch.

Correct but I’m guessing it just another way to milk the cash cow, bait and switch, smoke and mirrors,

Pull the progression featured game haters in first, then understand the real cash is to be made with the progression based mentality players and switch.

Best of both worlds.

For Anet.

They got my money (pre-purchase) and now they are going back on their word (manifesto).

Anet has become the typical money hungry video game company, they used to actually care. They were one of the last video game companies I trusted, RIP.

They will never get another cent from me if this goes through.

sorry for the double post. I will look into deleting it. This forum has an unconventional UI from any I’ve seen before.

I wanted to add though….
Or surprise me and prove this is good. I’m not leaving the game over this, but it’s not exactly extending my desire to play. Maybe I’ll be surprised, I just don’t see it. I see this solution as exagerating things that are issues to my personal enjoyment of the game. Honestly, there are a lot of bugs (events locking up, enemies becoming invinvible while you stay in agro status, realm guesting) that should be taken care of before new changes are implimented anyways. Don’t underestimate peoples desire to play more if they can play with all their friends. For some people all their friends are in their guild on one realm. For many people, we cannot play together without server transfers. And a single transfer would only add one friend while removing another (from friends accessible to pay with). The paragraph is not to get too wrapped up in the specifics, just to say there’s bigger, more important things to fix. Get this game out of beta feeling should be first priority. As it stands, GW2 is a game I plan to continue playing even with updates I don’t care for, but it’s not a game I dare recommend to anyone. I was the first couple weeks, but I stopped. I would love to recommend this to others, but I can’t in it’s current state. And ascended gear I don’t see helping this cause. I don’t want to show someone this game for the free weekend when I think there are enough things that will turn them off. I’ll recommend it to them (they’re much more casual than me, and likely won’t even think about it much otherwise) when those things polish up, assuming changes haven’t just conveluted it into obscurity.

Anet has always had one of the best manifesto philosophies for game design. I really just wish they would strengthen the identity set forth by that manifesto rather than washing it out to appeal to a more classing MMO audience. I criticize only because I like the game, I like the franchise, and I want to like it more rather than be turned off. Hope there’s something helpful in here. If you opinions for what make a game great differ from me, that’s fine. But these are my opinions. I am not a typical gamer, and don’t have typical motivations, but I feel a lot of observations in this post are legit despite those differences (I even go out of my way to mention things that could be changed that I wouldn’t necessarily like, but would have certain results).

Serious? we ask you to do somthing for WvW? you said : we program this game as we made it. and you said u won’t change that…

And now your are listenning stupid panda’s thing?
Ok add pve , dungeon, still it dosen’t touch WvWvW

So No change for 3W queues (no numbers or time to wait, even a pop-up on windows to show us we pop in 3W.

So please, stop make this game like others stupid mmo…
you are different, you are unique… don’t be stupid…

I think anets plan of damage control by merging threads kinda failed, as this threadnaught is the testament of the scale of the issue.

please. for the love of all your players, don’t any more ascended gears into the game. also, release another devblog on how to ratify the situation.

I really don’t see how a dot that damages you just for not having the right gear is actually adding any fun or challenge. It’s just a poor compensation for a poor dungeon design team. They really should hire a few guys off Rift to come and fix their dungeons. Its the one thing that game did do well.

Welcome gear treadmill’ like it or not.

Joiry.2504:

Ebon.7641:

GADefence.5634:

“We have no idea how this is going to work. Until we actually get our hands on it, this thread is purely hearsay.”

Hearsay from the developer’s mouths.

I’m sorry, where did a developer explain exactly how we’d acquire the ascended gear? There is absolutely no reason to assume that the way to acquire this new gear is going to be ANYTHING like LOTRO or WoW. That was my point.

Unless you know something I don’t, why assume the worst? Like I said, they may have something unique up their sleeve that sets this system apart from the others.

Yes, Anet has something very clever up their sleeves, and meanwhile the negativity builds, the community tears at each other, etc.

All part of their master plan? So they can sit back smuggly with steepled fingers, cackling as the community continues afterwards with “I told you so” or “See!”

Hint – the items will be drops. Either the item itself, or a crafting material for the infusions and backpack in the mystic forge. Do I know this for certain. No. Do I know if the sun will explode tomorrow, no, but it probably won’t. But its an MMO, given the unoriginality of this system, do you really think there’s some clever method of acquisition that Anet is keeping secret?

What I’m saying is that there may be ways to acquire it that won’t end up creating the same problems they did in LOTRO. I realize that they’re probably going to be drops but we know SO little about the dungeon and the new ascended system I don’t think you have the proper knowledge to assume anything about it with any degree of certainty.

If I wanted a gear grind, why wouldn’t I go back to WoW? WoW has 8 years of gear grind content under their belts. I have characters there with gold coming out of their ears. I can put things on the auction house and actually make some gold that way. I can gear alts in heirloom gear. I can chase the gear without having to be in a super elite guild by using the lfd tool and get into any dungeon to chase said gear. If a gear grind is what I wanted, I would still be playing WoW and would not have bought GW2. WoW does the gear treadmill better as they have way more practice at it.

I wanted a game where when I reached “endgame” it would be about DE’s, WvW, PvP, exploring, and new content….not new gear. I wanted housing. I wanted to see how my personal story would shape my character. I wanted to believe the hype.

Moosey Fate.9278:

sorry for the double post. I will look into deleting it. This forum has an unconventional UI from any I’ve seen before.

I wanted to add though….
Or surprise me and prove this is good. I’m not leaving the game over this, but it’s not exactly extending my desire to play. Maybe I’ll be surprised, I just don’t see it. I see this solution as exagerating things that are issues to my personal enjoyment of the game. Honestly, there are a lot of bugs (events locking up, enemies becoming invinvible while you stay in agro status, realm guesting) that should be taken care of before new changes are implimented anyways. Don’t underestimate peoples desire to play more if they can play with all their friends. For some people all their friends are in their guild on one realm. For many people, we cannot play together without server transfers. And a single transfer would only add one friend while removing another (from friends accessible to pay with). The paragraph is not to get too wrapped up in the specifics, just to say there’s bigger, more important things to fix. Get this game out of beta feeling should be first priority. As it stands, GW2 is a game I plan to continue playing even with updates I don’t care for, but it’s not a game I dare recommend to anyone. I was the first couple weeks, but I stopped. I would love to recommend this to others, but I can’t in it’s current state. And ascended gear I don’t see helping this cause. I don’t want to show someone this game for the free weekend when I think there are enough things that will turn them off. I’ll recommend it to them (they’re much more casual than me, and likely won’t even think about it much otherwise) when those things polish up, assuming changes haven’t just conveluted it into obscurity.

Anet has always had one of the best manifesto philosophies for game design. I really just wish they would strengthen the identity set forth by that manifesto rather than washing it out to appeal to a more classing MMO audience. I criticize only because I like the game, I like the franchise, and I want to like it more rather than be turned off. Hope there’s something helpful in here. If you opinions for what make a game great differ from me, that’s fine. But these are my opinions. I am not a typical gamer, and don’t have typical motivations, but I feel a lot of observations in this post are legit despite those differences (I even go out of my way to mention things that could be changed that I wouldn’t necessarily like, but would have certain results).

You are a sir man, nothing to say about it…
im not like you, im enraging… because i feel betrayed after 4 years of blogs, wonderful blogs… Holy words… and now its only digital crap…

i see a dev’s team that dont keep promises, they simply choose the easy way instead of study a method to keep their word… (and in this case, there is a really easy method to fix the issue, without lost credibility, and without unbalance the game), and this make me enrange more, and more.

From https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

" Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content."

An edge..where’s my level playing field…

“players were achieving their set of Exotic gear and hitting “the Legendary wall.””

The response should not be..“Ok they need more gear!”

After reading the new dungeon write up on the main page I have also come to these conclusions..

The dungeon gets harder the more you do it…..Brilliant…
Gear helps make this easier….Idiotic

From the article…
“After a certain point, our new Ascended items and Infusions become crucial tools for survival”

Crucial as in “We hope you have this or you are screwed!”

This is my final rant on this….for now…
Maybe I was spoiled since Guild Wars 1 catered to the Guild Wars mentality….3 months in and we are at the top of a very slippery slope…..you best not trip up ANUT…

chronus.1326:

Erebus Delirium.4892:

This added layer of gear allows you to keep doing the things you have been doing and loved since launch.

Ellaborate. I don’t know how it has anything to do with things like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5IUm-Dt60U
This is what we were doing in Guild Wars.

This is what you are doing in WoW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pceMK9Fxz3U

I don’t see the connection.
I think you were misinterpreting Guild Wars.
Guild Wars was a game about several different levels of fun. Not illusionarry carrot progress.

Love it

Relentliss.2170:

I really don’t see how a dot that damages you just for not having the right gear is actually adding any fun or challenge. It’s just a poor compensation for a poor dungeon design team. They really should hire a few guys off Rift to come and fix their dungeons. Its the one thing that game did do well.

Welcome gear treadmill’ like it or not.

What they are doing is exactly what Rift does or did you already forget Rift has two PvE only statistics specifically designed for PvE progression? That if you don’t have cap or near cap values, you are not doing damage or dieing in 2 hits?

how can the 2 even be compared? gw2 has no raiding system so how is a 5 man instance going to just ruine everyones day. its not like a few people are going to be left behind in a guild when everyone cannot group up in the first place

One thing that a lot of people misunderstood – the highest gear tier is and its going to be legendary (not exotics as some of you states). Ascended gear will not change that… Or any other tier.

I think it’s clear at this point that we want transparency above all else.

The initial post by Chris didn’t really address the heart of the question,

“Why is there a need to raise the gear ceiling?”

Once Anet responds to that question, I think it will clear up what their intentions are, and what direction GW2 is going to head in.

MrDmajor.7084:

Erebus Delirium.4892:

I don’t understand where all this rage is coming from. Progression is very important in an MMO, but raid-style grinds are an awful way to go about it. I have a feeling ANet thinks the same way.

This added layer of gear allows you to keep doing the things you have been doing and loved since launch. I’m excited, my friends are excited. I just don’t get the rage. People fear change, I guess.

Everyone I have talked to in-game ranges from excited to indifferent about the Ascended armor. This makes me believe the extremely loud complaints are actually from an exceedingly small representation of the player-base. When people are satisfied with something, they generally don’t go out of their way to write about it.

Do you HONESTLY think people are against “progression” or the fact they would shoe horn a tier between Exotic & Legendary stats for no good reason after telling everyone “Exotics = Legendary stat wise… don’t worry”. You really really can not fathom why people would be a little miffed at being told one thing to entice purchase , then getting switched upon purchase?

Yes, I honestly believe the naysayers are clearly against character progression post-80 because they are attacking the very weakest form of it: minor stat increases via gear. More powerful forms of progression would be level soft-caps, unlockable skills post 80, additional weapon slots, etc. A few more stat points does almost nothing compared to the more dangerous alternatives I listed.

ANet’s data was clearly telling them “looking cool” isn’t as big of a draw as they had hoped — or that everyone just picks the one dungeon they want and that’s it. ANet is not going to add this new tier “for no reason.”

Erebus Delirium.4892:

chronus.1326:

Erebus Delirium.4892:

This added layer of gear allows you to keep doing the things you have been doing and loved since launch.

Ellaborate. I don’t know how it has anything to do with things like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5IUm-Dt60U
This is what we were doing in Guild Wars.

This is what you are doing in WoW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pceMK9Fxz3U

I don’t see the connection.
I think you were misinterpreting Guild Wars.
Guild Wars was a game about several different levels of fun. Not illusionarry carrot progress.

Your response to my post is nothing more than a few egregious red herrings. The only way this even relates to what I wrote is the fact that you quoted it.

But you did, however, ask me to elaborate on what fun things you have been doing in Guild Wars TWO since the beginning. You’ve been leveling up, gearing up, and exploring new content. This next patch adds more gear and more content. Sooner or later we’ll probably get more levels or pseudo-levels which constitute something of a soft-cap.

They never promised not to add new gear, and they most certainly never promised a complete lack of character progression post-80. If that was the case, I would have never bought this game. Who wants an MMO that’s all carrot and no stick? I was sold on the fact that it’s MORE carrot and LESS stick.

The funny thing is that you still don’t get it.

I don’t give a rat’s kitten about the gears. I was having the same gears through years in Guild Wars. I bought them once and kept them for years and only switched when I found a better-looking one. Gears are nothing but asthetics, parts of the “character” of your character.

Maybe you are clueless becaue you don’t know better. You don’t know anything but how to farm and grind and you have grown to like it already.

I think I can count on my ten fingers how many time I have farmed in Guild Wars. I didn1t need to. I was poor and I couldn’t afford Envoy weapons, but I never needed them and not having them didn’t make me worth any less than anyone, not even by 1%. I still did 35 out of my 50 point in HoM points, finished all four games, and completed my legendary skill hunter achivement, which was something that I was very proud of. And I have experienced and loved every… single…. aspect of the game.

So I’m sorry if your box-thinking can only allow you to see things in carrots and sticks, but the fact is that Guild Wars 2 was supposed to rescure you from that box instead of allowing you to compress it’s boundaries to the size of your box, if you get what I mean.

So I cannot blame you but I guess we can say that WoW forever doomed the mmo genre by simply existing.

Relentliss.2170:

I really don’t see how a dot that damages you just for not having the right gear is actually adding any fun or challenge. It’s just a poor compensation for a poor dungeon design team. They really should hire a few guys off Rift to come and fix their dungeons. Its the one thing that game did do well.

Welcome gear treadmill’ like it or not.

It’s the same pathetic attempt to add fictional challenges to a game based on mechanics that cannot be bypassed by normal methods. Instead, they add a fictional new “debuff” that can only be cured by “farming” new gear levels & adding infusions to said gear. Gating, if you will, artificially creates new content that cannot be bypassed until you obtain the proper “key”. Thus, alienating people who don’t have the means, nor the skill to obtain those keys to compete.

Not only that, they are making their previous dungeons obsolete – 3 months into the games lifecycle. I’m boggled & baffled by this.

I thought ANET thought outside the box, with the whole “no-trinity” thing and their manifesto on how their game will be different and skill based. This is not skill, this is just falling back on designs so many other games have implemented previously. It’s sad & pathetic.

RamzaBehoulve.5640:

Relentliss.2170:

I really don’t see how a dot that damages you just for not having the right gear is actually adding any fun or challenge. It’s just a poor compensation for a poor dungeon design team. They really should hire a few guys off Rift to come and fix their dungeons. Its the one thing that game did do well.

Welcome gear treadmill’ like it or not.

What they are doing is exactly what Rift does or did you already forget Rift has two PvE only statistics specifically designed for PvE progression? That if you don’t have cap or near cap values, you are not doing damage or dieing in 2 hits?

Rifts many stat checks was one of the worst tnings about the game.

My point on Rift was only that the team was able to make some good dungeons with memorable boss encounters. It had nothing to do with their gear progression.

What happened to “the whole game is the endgame?” It makes me feel sick to read dev blog after dev blog this week citing endgame and “high end players.” Glurge.

Stat grinds are pathetic. This is so monumentally beneath ArenaNet. This is not the philosophy we were sold on. If you’re just going to give us WoW’s sloppy seconds, we may as well all play that.

HiddenNick.7206:

One thing that a lot of people misunderstood – the highest gear tier is and its going to be legendary (not exotics as some of you states). Ascended gear will not change that… Or any other tier.

Legendaries were not meant to be the highest tier gear. They were meant to be the highest rarity, but it was always promised that they would not be statistically better than the top-tier gear. They ALWAYS said that legendaries were meant to be about the skins, not the stats

I think Mike O’Brien himself needs to post on this subject.

Don’t continue throwing your subordinates under the bus, Mike.

If this decision is going to stand then you will absolutely bear the brunt of the praise/ridicule. You are the President of the company, you are the executive producer (meaning you make the final decisions) of Guild Wars 2.

“We have always taken our responsibility to players seriously with the original Guild Wars, and we will continue to do so with Guild Wars 2.” – Mike O’Brien

HiddenNick.7206:

One thing that a lot of people misunderstood – the highest gear tier is and its going to be legendary (not exotics as some of you states). Ascended gear will not change that… Or any other tier.

But before launch and many times when questioned, Anet repeatedly said that Legendary items will NOT be a new tier statistically.

They said specifically that they will only be COSMETIC and will functionally identical to exotics. Someone even posted the quote in this thread.

Making them a new tier alone is a huge departure.

I don’t know what ANet should be more ashamed of.

The decision or the way it was communicated & the replies they have made.

this kitten storm could have been, and could still be, easily averted : keep the patch the same, with the ascented gear, and just remove the stat increase.

SOLVED. now everyone can get excited about the patch content !

i’ll take the job, thank you.

Let’s just hold ArenaNet to their word that they won’t be adding any more tiers in. That it will simply stay:

Basic>Fine>Masterwork>Rare>Exotic>Ascended>Legendary.

And let’s make sure that later on they don’t keep adding bonus stats to Ascended items.

Ascended and Legendary are going to be on the same playing field. Just like Legendary was on the same playing field as Exotics.

Does it make what they are doing right? No. I for one am still hurt about it, but they plan to go forward with this patch it seems.

The only thing I can suggest to make sure things like this don’t happen again:

• Be vocal on the forums (everyday if you want)
• Check things on Guru/Reddit
• Ask questions and try to get some communication

Let’s make sure from here on out the ONLY way we are progressing, is through content and not in gear stats.

HiddenNick.7206:

One thing that a lot of people misunderstood – the highest gear tier is and its going to be legendary (not exotics as some of you states). Ascended gear will not change that… Or any other tier.

Except the Legendary tier WAS the same as exotic statwise – which people were very fast to point out in all the Legendary EQ threads as an argument against making them more accessible. I guess that argument is no longer valid, and we’re free to ask for difficulty of getting Legendaries toned down significantly.

Darkmoon Mist Raven.5913:

this kitten storm could have been, and could still be, easily averted : keep the patch the same, with the ascented gear, and just remove the stat increase.

SOLVED. now everyone can get excited about the patch content !

i’ll take the job, thank you.

You are absolutely correct.

And it’s a solution many of us have suggested. It’s so simple that it can’t be a case of them not thinking about it. Which means that it was likely a very deliberate decision to include it.

Is it one that they are flexible with? I don’t know, I guess we will find out in the coming days.

I’m desperate for Arenanet to answer to the following.

After the full set of Ascended items have been drip fed into the game is another tier on the road map?

The answer will decide if I continue to play.

NB: So poor show to see that the controversial news and response to hate posts are being made by anyone other than Mike. Its your baby so take responsibility.

chronus.1326:

I guess we can say that WoW forever doomed the mmo genre by simply existing.

Ain’t that the effin truth.

“Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two.”

sorry Chris but this is a total reversal from your stated philosophy on this game’s design. “exotic” and “legendary” gear are supposed to have the same stats. there is no power creep currently between them. what you intend to do is bump up the legendary stats to artificially create power creep in the game for the sake of “vertical progression” (something this game wasn’t supposed to be about).

Nymia.3256:

I think Mike O’Brien himself needs to post on this subject.

Don’t continue throwing your subordinates under the bus, Mike.

If this decision is going to stand then you will absolutely bear the brunt of the praise/ridicule. You are the President of the company, you are the executive producer (meaning you make the final decisions) of Guild Wars 2.

“We have always taken our responsibility to players seriously with the original Guild Wars, and we will continue to do so with Guild Wars 2.” – Mike O’Brien

I feel they are stuck between a rock and a hard place right now. Something or someone is telling him that this is the right change to make – I mean, they are the professionals and they are giving him “concrete” evidence that this change is necessary for the ultimate life of the game.

This is what I want – I want them to hold off on this one change (adding infusion and new gear levels) – implement the patch, garner some good will with the customer. Take a week or so, gather feedback via different methods (e-mails, in-game pop-ups, forums), give people ALL the information and allow the majority to decide the path the future of this game goes. I know it’s asking a lot, but hell, we put a lot of faith in this company and this game. Ultimately, we the customer pay the bills – we should at least have a voice.

Jestunhi.7429:

I don’t know what ANet should be more ashamed of.

The decision or the way it was communicated & the replies they have made.

The decision.
The communication can always be improved.
But the decision is just a big load of ettin refuse.