Guild Wars 2

LadenSwallow.1468:

Well I decided to post a complaint to the ASA (Advertising Standards Authority) given the contradiction between these sources:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en-gb/news/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success/

and

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear

Key differences that I could see:

June 2012: The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game… those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

and

November 2012: Ascended gear has Infusion slots, and rarer versions of the items also come with additional Agony Resistance built into them.

June 2012: We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills

and

November 2012: The only way to mitigate Agony damage is by building up resistance through Infusions, a new type of upgrade component that can be acquired in the Mystic Forge.

I bought this game under the distinct impression that I could get to max level/equipment, then play how I wanted to (which may itself include periods of not playing – I work full time and have other games to play). I have only 1 level 80 character, approximately 70% exotics and was working on the rest (with the rest currently including jewellery so at the moment I’m not strictly speaking affected, but the effect of this update is to make me very angry at the future prospects). I had also decided to perhaps start levelling some alternate characters, and when those character slots are all full to perhaps have bought more over the coming years, along with expansion packs etc.

Depending on the outcome I’m not sure I will bother, after all, I still have many games in my library that I haven’t even touched yet. I can just as easily abandon this game as ANet has abandoned their principles.

Amen.

Deth.4109:

Jestunhi.7429:

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

I’m desperate for Arenanet to answer to the following.

After the full set of Ascended items have been drip fed into the game is another tier on the road map?

The answer will decide if I continue to play.

NB: So poor show to see that the controversial news and response to hate posts are being made by anyone other than Mike. Its your baby so take responsibility.

If there weren’t another tier lined up after this one then how would they keep the new target audience?

If they want to keep grinders then they need a constant grind, not just one new tier to occupy them for a few hours each time a new item is added.

how do you know theres a “NEW” target for the game????. what if ascendeds are there way of setting up for a more logically sustainable method of fufilling the original models purpose?

But we’ve already illustrated how this solution addresses a problem that doesn’t even exist until trying to implement the solution.

What is this “more logically sustainable method of fulfilling the original models purpose”?

If it’s changing course from the long-standing advertised model, I think it would be in good form for them to communicate that in an open and transparent way.

Snerf.1650:

HiddenNick.7206:

jakep.9572:

Legendaries were not meant to be the highest tier gear. They were meant to be the highest rarity, but it was always promised that they would not be statistically better than the top-tier gear. They ALWAYS said that legendaries were meant to be about the skins, not the stats

And that’s why they will never be more powerful then last tier before them.

One more thing. After reading post about new dungeon. It is still going to be available for players with even the most basic equipment. But the hardest difficulty level of the dungeon can be defeated only with ascended gear. I think that’s a win win for everyone. It’s like the game could scale up… For those who wants it.

I don’t think you would find nearly as much opposition to this idea if the impact of the gear is only felt in that dungeon. The problem is that as proposed, it would greatly impact every area of the game outside Spvp.

I don’t expect that the impact could be even perceptible… WvW is combined effort and so is PvE (I’m playing with blue equipment and I still have fun in spite of everything that you say).

And a question for you: can you actually say whose wearing what tier based only on their performance in PvE etc.? I can’t… So I don’t really care what they are wearing.

Deth.4109:

Jestunhi.7429:

If there weren’t another tier lined up after this one then how would they keep the new target audience?

If they want to keep grinders then they need a constant grind, not just one new tier to occupy them for a few hours each time a new item is added.

how do you know theres a “NEW” target for the game????. what if ascendeds are there way of setting up for a more logically sustainable method of fufilling the original models purpose?

Clearly this new change is not aimed at the audience which all their previous statements, press releases, interviews, etc were aimed at, because they are now saying the exact opposite of what they were saying before.

Oh great can see it now….

(Visits mystic well to create infusion crystal)

#error 7089 The mystic well requires infusion core x 5

Please visit the on-line store to purchase your cores.

:)

Erebus Delirium.4892:

I know it’s hard, but try to keep your ego out of this. You’ve now inferred that I am or ever was a WoW fan in both of your posts, then used that irrational springboard to make other (completely inaccurate) generalizations about the kind of player I am and how I lack the capacity to understand your elevated thought processes.

Okay. Be it. I’m gonna read the rest of your post completely normally. You seem like an intellgent fellow.

Erebus Delirium.4892:

I go way, WAY back before WoW, I would dare infer my MMO roots are much deeper than yours.

Who knows. I played EQ2, EVE, Anarchy, Lineage II for longer ammounts of times and tried out many MMO on the level of trial. And as for years, all that happened before Guild Wars. You may have a larger history but I want to hear it now. You piqued my interest. Just curiosity. No insults, ill intentions, or anything related to the argument intended.

Erebus Delirium.4892:

Next, you’re talking about Guild Wars 1. In fact when you aren’t accusing me me of being a WoW fanatic, you’re telling me how GW2 should basically be a clone of GW1.

I never said that. But when you take the balls to take the name of a francishe and put the number 2 next to it, you are obliged to at least not piss in the face of those who loved that game by doing a full 180° (And this game have done several 10° rotations already, this was only the last one.) Otherwise, use a different title for experimenting. Maybe in 2012 nothing is sacred anymore, but back in the day sequels were improvements of the a game, as that it is for every program. I do not expect Photoshop CS6 to be a CD-burner software either just because Adobe wants to experiment in that direction and decides to use the fame of the Photoshop title to sell ther kitten. Good developers do not need to do that.

Emphasis on the adjective “good”.

Erebus Delirium.4892:

You really aren’t giving me an argument. You’re just trying to proclaim anyone who disagrees with you to be: 1) stupid or incapable of understanding you, 2) a WoW fan who doesn’t understand how MMOs can function differently, and 3) not up to your standards because they don’t want Guild Wars 2 to be Guild Wars 1.

There was apparently no argument. I have went through all points of your post indvidually and in the end I only found dissatisfaction with that I allegedly considered your opinion below mine.

I did.
And I attributed it to WoW.
I’m sorry.
And I’m sorry if I offended you.

This game was hyped us as the new generation of MMORPGs, the one that will break the bad cycle of models and bring a new system to replace the old system. Everybody in Guild Warss thought that this is better than the rest of the MMORPGs, even though the game was a CORPG. And we expected it to lift what made Guild Wars good and convert it to an MMO game. That is not what happened. Then we expected that you guys will say “Why have I’ve been playing these games so far? This is so much better!”, but that is not what happened because Guild Wars 2 never succeeded in showing you why Guild Wars was good. It ended up being slightly better than the average MMO, as some would say, but it stuck inbetween Guild Wars and the average MMO level, truly cateering to none. So some people wanted it to resemble the old model and some wanted it to resemble the new.

The problem is that if they would have done it right then this should not have happened because then game would have shown you the new model first. And then nobody would have wanted the old one. Or at least, their numbers would’ve been lower.

Hi everyone,

this is my first post on these forums. I usually just play the game, this time however I can’t just stay quiet.

I bought all the original titles, charater slots, costumes and finaly the collectors edition of this game with the idea that at least one company understood what I was searching for. Arenanet seemed to be the real deal. I was fully willing to support them with future purchases and good word of mouth.

However the manifesto and all they stood for has just been proven to be nothing more then a big dissapointment in the light of the recent announcements.
That’s what I feel right now, not anger, just dissapointment.

As a company they have lost my faith as a customer and as a loyal fan of their franchise.

Thanks for the good times and good luck to those who still play,
Thomas

HiddenNick.7206:

Snerf.1650:

HiddenNick.7206:

jakep.9572:

Legendaries were not meant to be the highest tier gear. They were meant to be the highest rarity, but it was always promised that they would not be statistically better than the top-tier gear. They ALWAYS said that legendaries were meant to be about the skins, not the stats

And that’s why they will never be more powerful then last tier before them.

One more thing. After reading post about new dungeon. It is still going to be available for players with even the most basic equipment. But the hardest difficulty level of the dungeon can be defeated only with ascended gear. I think that’s a win win for everyone. It’s like the game could scale up… For those who wants it.

I don’t think you would find nearly as much opposition to this idea if the impact of the gear is only felt in that dungeon. The problem is that as proposed, it would greatly impact every area of the game outside Spvp.

I don’t expect that the impact could be even perceptible… WvW is combined effort and so is PvE (I play with blue equipment and I still have fun in spite of everything that you say).

And a question for you: can you actually say whose wearing what tier based only on their performance in PvE etc.? I can’t… So I don’t really care what they are wearing.

1% difference is still a difference. To serious pvpers/WVWers any advantage is mandatory. I primarily play GW2 for WVW, and I prefer small group/skirmish action in WVW where even small stat differences absolutely come into play.

Nymia.3256:

It bears repeating, even though I and many others have said it already:

This is the first content update.

And just after 3 months too! Imagine what the next updates can include, a complete re-write to the manifesto and core ideals?

I’m trying to understand where all these negative comments are coming from. I feel that this is a smart business decision to attract a massive player base. Bring it on Anet!!!

I really can’t imagine that the playerbase that loves doing the current runs is really that upset, but if so why is that. Some runs are challenging enough just to get a group to run it at times. I personally think the ascended gear opens the door to more players that like to run dungeons. Add to it that when this group finds out its also a nice way to make money; you will have more supply of people looking for easier runs over mists.

This alternative is better than a straight free to play conversion that some of the big hitters have had to make.

Lies, Lies!!!! Every time I read a post like that I laugh. Have you ever had to make a concession in order to get ahead? It’s a business; again please try to remember that.

Again for all those in WvW worried about Ascended gear, you should start looking at feasts/trays/etc in game that give sizable stat buffs to everyone that can click on it. This is directed at those that read this and think feasts??? Haha just wait till you see those stats!

Deep breath; yep this game is still the best I have played in a long time. Keep up the great work Anet!

shambo.3842:

why are all u crybaby’s getting so upset with a new tier of gear that is in between exotic and legendary? im lmao at all the im quitting post here and all the crying about a gear treadmill before the patch is even out please read this post.

Yes, well, if this is the calibre of player that is staying on for the treadmill, ANet is welcome to them.

Creslin.1758:

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

I’m desperate for Arenanet to answer to the following.

After the full set of Ascended items have been drip fed into the game is another tier on the road map?

The answer will decide if I continue to play.

NB: So poor show to see that the controversial news and response to hate posts are being made by anyone other than Mike. Its your baby so take responsibility.

Yep, I agree. If Ascended is the last gear tier…I can live with it. In fact, I an even understand it because Exotics were a bit too easy to get, and at least this will give ANet a lot of “reward fodder” to make their content more interesting.

But if this is just the start of a long-chain of gear tiers…I’m out. That is a treadmill…they said their wouldn’t be a treadmill so I’m going to just have to trust that for now…but we really need some reassurance here.

Why are you fooling yourself?

Who says exotics were a bit to easy to get? The powergrinders running non-stop 24h karma trains through lost shore? The ones that exploited the dungeons early on taking short cuts to bosses to farm the hell out of them amassing marks in little time that is not possible any more? People running glass cannon AoE dps builds in WvWvW depending on their mates to get carried so they can actually collect the bags with marks, ending up with a lot more than others that screwed over by this stupid contribution system?

What exactly is your benchmark of ‘easy to get’? Did you think of people that can not play 8 hours a day? Or are you just repeating the pathetic spin, that poor excuse by which this new gear grind is being sold?

Snerf.1650:

HiddenNick.7206:

Snerf.1650:

HiddenNick.7206:

jakep.9572:

Legendaries were not meant to be the highest tier gear. They were meant to be the highest rarity, but it was always promised that they would not be statistically better than the top-tier gear. They ALWAYS said that legendaries were meant to be about the skins, not the stats

And that’s why they will never be more powerful then last tier before them.

One more thing. After reading post about new dungeon. It is still going to be available for players with even the most basic equipment. But the hardest difficulty level of the dungeon can be defeated only with ascended gear. I think that’s a win win for everyone. It’s like the game could scale up… For those who wants it.

I don’t think you would find nearly as much opposition to this idea if the impact of the gear is only felt in that dungeon. The problem is that as proposed, it would greatly impact every area of the game outside Spvp.

I don’t expect that the impact could be even perceptible… WvW is combined effort and so is PvE (I play with blue equipment and I still have fun in spite of everything that you say).

And a question for you: can you actually say whose wearing what tier based only on their performance in PvE etc.? I can’t… So I don’t really care what they are wearing.

1% difference is still a difference. To serious pvpers/WVWers any advantage is mandatory. I primarily play GW2 for WVW, and I prefer small group/skirmish action in WVW where even small stat differences absolutely come into play.

lol…

WvW is just for fun… Becouse all those serious WvWers can be equipped fully exotic/ascended/whatever and have 200 sidekicked level ones as teammates… Your just being silly now.

" As an industry, we could all do a better job of teaching the player how to get to the point where these more complex systems are in the game. And then have more enjoyment by understanding what they are, rather than feeling like an outsider "

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/08/10/guild-wars-2-lead-producer-whiteside-believes-subscription-mmo-model-offers-huge-barrier-to-entry/

It seems that we as gamers don’t know what we want from an mmo and have to be taught by ANET what we really want.

shambo.3842:

Thank you Anet for making a great game and providing more content to the game for FREE!
why are all u crybaby’s getting so upset with a new tier of gear that is in between exotic and legendary? im lmao at all the im quitting post here and all the crying about a gear treadmill before the patch is even out please read this post. it explains a lot and im looking forward to it!

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/leah-rivera-on-the-new-fractals-of-the-mist-dungeon/

I wonder if ANet shares your amusement at the number of people planning on quitting?

Jestunhi.7429:

Deth.4109:

Jestunhi.7429:

If there weren’t another tier lined up after this one then how would they keep the new target audience?

If they want to keep grinders then they need a constant grind, not just one new tier to occupy them for a few hours each time a new item is added.

how do you know theres a “NEW” target for the game????. what if ascendeds are there way of setting up for a more logically sustainable method of fufilling the original models purpose?

Clearly this new change is not aimed at the audience which all their previous statements, press releases, interviews, etc were aimed at, because they are now saying the exact opposite of what they were saying before.

thats some what true, assuming ascendeds arent intended to become the new permanent level cap standard. i mean if they are then it pleases both types of players, example: all level 80s will in the future wear ascended armor, but by adding new infusions<possibly aquired through various means but for the purpose of my example ones specific to duneons> then hard core gear grinder pvers will have to constantly chase new infusios by doing this dungeon and thefore also be appeased.

Give me the dungeon I like that.

But as for the agony condition and ascend gear, no thank you.

HiddenNick.7206:

Snerf.1650:

HiddenNick.7206:

Snerf.1650:

HiddenNick.7206:

jakep.9572:

Legendaries were not meant to be the highest tier gear. They were meant to be the highest rarity, but it was always promised that they would not be statistically better than the top-tier gear. They ALWAYS said that legendaries were meant to be about the skins, not the stats

And that’s why they will never be more powerful then last tier before them.

One more thing. After reading post about new dungeon. It is still going to be available for players with even the most basic equipment. But the hardest difficulty level of the dungeon can be defeated only with ascended gear. I think that’s a win win for everyone. It’s like the game could scale up… For those who wants it.

I don’t think you would find nearly as much opposition to this idea if the impact of the gear is only felt in that dungeon. The problem is that as proposed, it would greatly impact every area of the game outside Spvp.

I don’t expect that the impact could be even perceptible… WvW is combined effort and so is PvE (I play with blue equipment and I still have fun in spite of everything that you say).

And a question for you: can you actually say whose wearing what tier based only on their performance in PvE etc.? I can’t… So I don’t really care what they are wearing.

1% difference is still a difference. To serious pvpers/WVWers any advantage is mandatory. I primarily play GW2 for WVW, and I prefer small group/skirmish action in WVW where even small stat differences absolutely come into play.

lol…

WvW is just for fun… Becouse all those serious WvWers can be equipped fully exotic/ascended/whatever and have 200 sidekicked level ones as teammates… Your just being silly now.

No I’m being totally serious. This game was mentioned many times as the spiritual successor to daoc because of WVW being the new RVR.

It is the area of the game I am by far the most serious and competitive at. I don’t see why that is hard to believe.

I’ve already expressed my disappointment with this new direction elsewhere in the thread. I even recanted some of it as I began to understand ArenaNet’s position. But the more I think about it, the more unsettling it becomes. I really can’t find another logical way around this other than the simple fact that they’re trying to satisfy the crowd that equates progression with stat gain and exclusivity at the expense of disappointing everyone else that bought into Arena Net’s own vision for their game.

There is nothing about this new dungeon that compliments the philosophical foundation laid out and marketed to us by the entire company. From the stat gains of the new armor, to the gating of the dungeon through a gear-based mechanic, this entire dungeon reeks of any other game but what the Guild Wars franchise is supposed to symbolize.

They sold us a vision and now they’re taking a contradicting approach with everything about this new dungeon with the addition of an antiquated, boring, unskillful condition mechanic and a new tier of gear just to be able to participate in it. It’s a direct contradiction to everything they said they were about.

I don’t even mean to sound so melodramatic. I’m just presenting the facts as I see them. Someone please tell me how all this isnt a complete 180 turn away from everything they told us this game was going to be about.

ARggghhhh the AGONY!!!!

Caran.3217:

Creslin.1758:

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

I’m desperate for Arenanet to answer to the following.

After the full set of Ascended items have been drip fed into the game is another tier on the road map?

The answer will decide if I continue to play.

NB: So poor show to see that the controversial news and response to hate posts are being made by anyone other than Mike. Its your baby so take responsibility.

Yep, I agree. If Ascended is the last gear tier…I can live with it. In fact, I an even understand it because Exotics were a bit too easy to get, and at least this will give ANet a lot of “reward fodder” to make their content more interesting.

But if this is just the start of a long-chain of gear tiers…I’m out. That is a treadmill…they said their wouldn’t be a treadmill so I’m going to just have to trust that for now…but we really need some reassurance here.

Why are you fooling yourself?

Who says exotics were a bit to easy to get? The powergrinders running non-stop 24h karma trains through lost shore? The ones that exploited the dungeons early on taking short cuts to bosses to farm the hell out of them amassing marks in little time that is not possible any more? People running glass cannon AoE dps builds in WvWvW depending on their mates to get carried so they can actually collect the bags with marks, ending up with a lot more than others that screwed over by this stupid contribution system?

What exactly is your benchmark of ‘easy to get’? Did you think of people that can not play 8 hours a day? Or are you just repeating the pathetic spin, that poor excuse by which this new gear grind is being sold?

They really aren’t that hard to get…it costs like probably less than 2g per piece of exotic gear if you can craft…and it’s megaeasy to max out a crafting skill.

You can just buy items at a low buy price and then sell them at a higher sell price to get the money, then you’re done. I have nearly full exotic, and I think I’ve done maybe a total of 5 or 6 dungeon runs…rest almost all WvW…no farming at all.

Deth.4109:

Jestunhi.7429:

Deth.4109:

Jestunhi.7429:

If there weren’t another tier lined up after this one then how would they keep the new target audience?

If they want to keep grinders then they need a constant grind, not just one new tier to occupy them for a few hours each time a new item is added.

how do you know theres a “NEW” target for the game????. what if ascendeds are there way of setting up for a more logically sustainable method of fufilling the original models purpose?

Clearly this new change is not aimed at the audience which all their previous statements, press releases, interviews, etc were aimed at, because they are now saying the exact opposite of what they were saying before.

thats some what true, assuming ascendeds arent intended to become the new permanent level cap standard. i mean if they are then it pleases both types of players, example: all level 80s will in the future wear ascended armor, but by adding new infusions<possibly aquired through various means but for the purpose of my example ones specific to duneons> then hard core gear grinder pvers will have to constantly chase new infusios by doing this dungeon and thefore also be appeased.

This game was advertised as being for people who aren’t all about chasing carrots.

We don’t like chasing carrots. If someone really likes that in a game, I don’t understand how they ever gravitated to GW2 because devs were saying for years how Anet doesn’t believe in this as a design philosophy.

Deth.4109:

thats some what true, assuming ascendeds arent intended to become the new permanent level cap standard. i mean if they are then it pleases both types of players, example: all level 80s will in the future wear ascended armor, but by adding new infusions<possibly aquired through various means but for the purpose of my example ones specific to duneons> then hard core gear grinder pvers will have to constantly chase new infusios by doing this dungeon and thefore also be appeased.

It pleases both types of gamers?

Gear grinders – why will they stay for any longer than it takes to grind the new items? If these people judge how good a game is based on how high they can get the numbers in their character window then a single new tier of gear will keep them busy for a few hours of grinding and then they will have no reason to stay.

Non gear grinders – well, you can see exactly how happy they are with the change by reading this thread. There should be no doubt whatsoever that the response has been negative from this part of the community.

So please, how does it please either of them?

Focksbot.6798:

shambo.3842:

why are all u crybaby’s getting so upset with a new tier of gear that is in between exotic and legendary? im lmao at all the im quitting post here and all the crying about a gear treadmill before the patch is even out please read this post.

Yes, well, if this is the calibre of player that is staying on for the treadmill, ANet is welcome to them.

Was just about to say the same thing. They capture the older demographic who have more spare cash then throw them away for this? These people will consume your content quicker than you can build it and will then declare the game poor wow clone and move on. They do it in every mmo.

“Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it”
George Santayana

Jestunhi.7429:

Deth.4109:

Jestunhi.7429:

If there weren’t another tier lined up after this one then how would they keep the new target audience?

If they want to keep grinders then they need a constant grind, not just one new tier to occupy them for a few hours each time a new item is added.

how do you know theres a “NEW” target for the game????. what if ascendeds are there way of setting up for a more logically sustainable method of fufilling the original models purpose?

Clearly this new change is not aimed at the audience which all their previous statements, press releases, interviews, etc were aimed at, because they are now saying the exact opposite of what they were saying before.

One way or another whether it be the Ascended armor, the new recipes or making an entire set of armor obsolete it will all be about making Anet cash…..it will be aimed at the audiences pocket.

The guys who developed this game are no fools, all the suggestions we’ve had about adding slots to exotics …. they probably discussed light years ago.

The hard facts are they chose to go down the progression route for a reason…. And I’m inclined to think now….it’s all about the money.

Interesting article that relates to how many peoples feelings have swung around on a few “fallen angles” at Anet

“This research, published in the Journal of the Academy of Marketing Science 2009, demonstrates that we are disproportionately emotionally affected when something disappoints us, as compared to when it lives up to expectations. So, if organisations make a claim for something and it does it, then we may be pleased: however, if it makes a claim for something and it does not, then we are very displeased.

Furthermore, the failure to live up to expectations causes a deterioration in trust that extends naturally to the product itself and unsurprisingly also perhaps to other related products. However, this loss of trust extends more widely in a way that cannot be easily explained in a logical way. It reaches not only to the organisation providing the product that failed, but also to other non-related products and even non-related organisations.

Clearly trust is not built, or lost, in a rational manner. When we have our trust betrayed by a failure to deliver on promises, we have cognitive biases that lead us to change our evaluations of completely non-related things, people and organisations, despite there being no logical reason why we should. Somehow, the specific breach of trust eats away at our general sense of trust."

Source http://customerservicepsychology.wordpress.com/2011/05/11/the-cost-of-broken-promises-betrayal-what-the-uk-election-result-can-tell-us-about-customer-trust/

Deth.4109:

i mean if they are then it pleases both types of players, example: all level 80s will in the future wear ascended armor, but by adding new infusions<possibly aquired through various means but for the purpose of my example ones specific to duneons> then hard core gear grinder pvers will have to constantly chase new infusios by doing this dungeon and thefore also be appeased.

Because if I care about progression, I’m going to come to Guild Wars 2 for dungeon-only resist gear, rather than playing a WoW clone that treats me like a god for showing up to raid.

Focksbot.6798:

shambo.3842:

why are all u crybaby’s getting so upset with a new tier of gear that is in between exotic and legendary? im lmao at all the im quitting post here and all the crying about a gear treadmill before the patch is even out please read this post.

Yes, well, if this is the calibre of player that is staying on for the treadmill, ANet is welcome to them.

Exactly. Is this what you want, ANet? MMO Locusts?

Creslin.1758:

They really aren’t that hard to get…it costs like probably less than 2g per piece of exotic gear if you can craft…and it’s megaeasy to max out a crafting skill.

You can just buy items at a low buy price and then sell them at a higher sell price to get the money, then you’re done. I have nearly full exotic, and I think I’ve done maybe a total of 5 or 6 dungeon runs…rest almost all WvW…no farming at all.

2g per piece is around 2h of grind per piece. 2 weapons, 6 armors and 5 jewelry we are at 22g (more than that actually,most exotics cost more than 2g). Then add in the superior runes which for some cost a LOT.

And then, after all that time you decide that this full berzerk set is kinda squishy for dungeons and you need something else XD

Deth.4109:

Jestunhi.7429:

Deth.4109:

Jestunhi.7429:

If there weren’t another tier lined up after this one then how would they keep the new target audience?

If they want to keep grinders then they need a constant grind, not just one new tier to occupy them for a few hours each time a new item is added.

how do you know theres a “NEW” target for the game????. what if ascendeds are there way of setting up for a more logically sustainable method of fufilling the original models purpose?

Clearly this new change is not aimed at the audience which all their previous statements, press releases, interviews, etc were aimed at, because they are now saying the exact opposite of what they were saying before.

thats some what true, assuming ascendeds arent intended to become the new permanent level cap standard. i mean if they are then it pleases both types of players, example: all level 80s will in the future wear ascended armor, but by adding new infusions<possibly aquired through various means but for the purpose of my example ones specific to duneons> then hard core gear grinder pvers will have to constantly chase new infusios by doing this dungeon and thefore also be appeased.

Sorry to say but there is no logic whatsoever in your post.

People that have spent time, effort and possibly real money to get exotic gear are cheated and have to repeat the process of gearing up all over.

People that love a gear treadmill because they for whatever reason think this is needed to keep them playing will always demand more, the next tier.

Two fundamentally exclusive ‘ways to play’ – ANet sold a game on advertising A) and now they want to sell those people. This can not work ever.

Jestunhi.7429:

Deth.4109:

thats some what true, assuming ascendeds arent intended to become the new permanent level cap standard. i mean if they are then it pleases both types of players, example: all level 80s will in the future wear ascended armor, but by adding new infusions<possibly aquired through various means but for the purpose of my example ones specific to duneons> then hard core gear grinder pvers will have to constantly chase new infusios by doing this dungeon and thefore also be appeased.

It pleases both types of gamers?

Gear grinders – why will they stay for any longer than it takes to grind the new items? If these people judge how good a game is based on how high they can get the numbers in their character window then a single new tier of gear will keep them busy for a few hours of grinding and then they will have no reason to stay.

Non gear grinders – well, you can see exactly how happy they are with the change by reading this thread. There should be no doubt whatsoever that the response has been negative from this part of the community.

So please, how does it please either of them?

did you not read what i said 2 of the previous times?

stof.9341:

Creslin.1758:

They really aren’t that hard to get…it costs like probably less than 2g per piece of exotic gear if you can craft…and it’s megaeasy to max out a crafting skill.

You can just buy items at a low buy price and then sell them at a higher sell price to get the money, then you’re done. I have nearly full exotic, and I think I’ve done maybe a total of 5 or 6 dungeon runs…rest almost all WvW…no farming at all.

2g per piece is around 2h of grind per piece. 2 weapons, 6 armors and 5 jewelry we are at 22g (more than that actually,most exotics cost more than 2g). Then add in the superior runes which for some cost a LOT.

And then, after all that time you decide that this full berzerk set is kinda squishy for dungeons and you need something else XD

Hey, I’m not saying that you can get them in a day, but compared to most MMORPG top-level gear…exotics are mad easy to get. And my proof of that is that I actually have them, but have never got top level gear in any other MMORPG lol.

Deth.4109:

did you not read what i said 2 of the previous times?

Yes, and the best you have come is claiming that the gear grinders will stay on to farm infusions?

I assumed that was a joke…

Cutterslaine.2689:

The hard facts are they chose to go down the progression route for a reason…. And I’m inclined to think now….it’s all about the money.

Then I think they’re in for a rude awakening when they compare the revenue from a bunch of fickle tourist dungeon grinders that will just chew up any available content and spit it back out, rather than the people who have proselytized for this game for seven years.

I’m going to post this assuming it will be lost amidst the other 7500+ posts if for no other reason that I felt the need to voice my opinion.

There is no reason to add another layer of gear to the game. We understood the idea that exotics are the highest tier and legendaries are a special skin version of them. This ideal alone means most other tiers of items are basically worthless. With the addition of ascended gear it just makes the previous top tier of exotic equally as worthless. Masterwork gear is sold for between merch value and something below crafting value. Rares are sold for a value that varies with the cost of ectos. Exotics will most likely now follow suite.

I don’t even have an exotic set for any of my characters so it doesn’t affect me directly. But it does change the way the community views gear and therefore indirectly affects me. Sure the stats may be only slightly better, but in games like this there is the best gear and there is everything else. If you don’t think it will matter, look back to prior games and see how many times more items with max stats sell for than items with max -1 stats.

I’m growing increasingly frustrated playing this game. I’ve put about 350 playing hours in thus far which is a far cry from the 5000 or so I put in to GW1. Rather than enjoying the playing experience, I find myself upset about numerous things: the terrible camera bounce and zoom, appearance of unequal collision boxes, the leashing and invulnerable enemies, the chain knockdowns, nonstop spawning adds, in and out of combat movement differences, loneliness of the zones, bugging dungeons and DE’s, underwater combat, the inaccuracy that all zones are end game, and I could go on but nobody really cares.

In the end I’m hoping that I once again find the joy in playing the game like I did in the first Guild Wars. In that I know I’m not alone. But from the sounds of all the complaints so far, Anet has more immediate issues by opening this can of worms and having to deal with this kitten storm.

Creslin.1758:

Hey, I’m not saying that you can get them in a day, but compared to most MMORPG top-level gear…exotics are mad easy to get. And my proof of that is that I actually have them, but have never got top level gear in any other MMORPG lol.

No you don’t have them. Top-level gear is Ascended now, go back to start.

Caran.3217:

Deth.4109:

Jestunhi.7429:

Deth.4109:

Jestunhi.7429:

If there weren’t another tier lined up after this one then how would they keep the new target audience?

If they want to keep grinders then they need a constant grind, not just one new tier to occupy them for a few hours each time a new item is added.

how do you know theres a “NEW” target for the game????. what if ascendeds are there way of setting up for a more logically sustainable method of fufilling the original models purpose?

Clearly this new change is not aimed at the audience which all their previous statements, press releases, interviews, etc were aimed at, because they are now saying the exact opposite of what they were saying before.

thats some what true, assuming ascendeds arent intended to become the new permanent level cap standard. i mean if they are then it pleases both types of players, example: all level 80s will in the future wear ascended armor, but by adding new infusions<possibly aquired through various means but for the purpose of my example ones specific to duneons> then hard core gear grinder pvers will have to constantly chase new infusios by doing this dungeon and thefore also be appeased.

Sorry to say but there is no logic whatsoever in your post.

People that have spent time, effort and possibly real money to get exotic gear are cheated and have to repeat the process of gearing up all over.

People that love a gear treadmill because they for whatever reason think this is needed to keep them playing will always demand more, the next tier.

Two fundamentally exclusive ‘ways to play’ – ANet sold a game on advertising A) and now they want to sell those people. This can not work ever.

thats the point of me saying its a more sustainable method, the market of gamers especially the ones who like mmos dont care for a system like what was in place with max level exotics. to most its literally “playing dress up” by adding more infusions for gear treadmill players they give them more ways to increase there effectiveness and create a flat levle “next tier”. not that those items would be any more powerful so much so as they simply increase the effectivness of that player in a particular setting. and because they can create gear upgrades via infusions rather than new armor tiers it creates the item level cap we were pormised with the original model.

Jairyn.6913:

Cutterslaine.2689:

The hard facts are they chose to go down the progression route for a reason…. And I’m inclined to think now….it’s all about the money.

Then I think they’re in for a rude awakening when they compare the revenue from a bunch of fickle tourist dungeon grinders that will just chew up any available content and spit it back out, rather than the people who have proselytized for this game for seven years.

Add to that, the fact that those dungeon grinders will have plenty of gold from grinding those dungeons and will have no need for buying gems with real money. I guess the devs could always nerf the coin from dungeons, which wouldn’t be surprising after the Halloween debacle and now this new dungeon which serves as a complete departure from their falsely advertised design philosophy. Indeed, they’re in for a rude awakening if this change goes through.

stof.9341:

Creslin.1758:

stof.9341:

Creslin.1758:

They really aren’t that hard to get…it costs like probably less than 2g per piece of exotic gear if you can craft…and it’s megaeasy to max out a crafting skill.

You can just buy items at a low buy price and then sell them at a higher sell price to get the money, then you’re done. I have nearly full exotic, and I think I’ve done maybe a total of 5 or 6 dungeon runs…rest almost all WvW…no farming at all.

2g per piece is around 2h of grind per piece. 2 weapons, 6 armors and 5 jewelry we are at 22g (more than that actually,most exotics cost more than 2g). Then add in the superior runes which for some cost a LOT.

And then, after all that time you decide that this full berzerk set is kinda squishy for dungeons and you need something else XD

Hey, I’m not saying that you can get them in a day, but compared to most MMORPG top-level gear…exotics are mad easy to get. And my proof of that is that I actually have them, but have never got top level gear in any other MMORPG lol.

No you don’t have them. Top-level gear is Ascended now, go back to start.

Har har…top level gear right now is actually still exotics…patch hasn’t been released yet.

Look, I’m not really in favor of this change, in fact I’m more against it. Personally, I DO want cool gear (or whatever) rewards for dungeons and stuff, but I do NOT think that they have to resort to stat increases to do this.

Folks on this thread and others have already given a lot of cool ideas of how a new tier of gear could be introduced that does not have a stat increase. For example, maybe the new tier of gear allows you to switch between two “sets” of stats on it outside of combat.

Focksbot.6798:

shambo.3842:

why are all u crybaby’s getting so upset with a new tier of gear that is in between exotic and legendary? im lmao at all the im quitting post here and all the crying about a gear treadmill before the patch is even out please read this post.

Yes, well, if this is the calibre of player that is staying on for the treadmill, ANet is welcome to them.

why did you not quote the first part of my post? anyway the reason im lol at all the post is most of them will not quit and there is no gear treadmill please read this post

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

or if your to lazy here’s a quote from the post

By adding challenging new combat mechanics to end-game content and ways to mitigate those mechanics through gear progression for high-end players, we can add personal progression without making the game feel like an endless treadmill of gear that is just out of your reach.

Big well done to the first time posters whom have taken time to voice their concerns.

Its a warming feeling to know people care so much about this game and are willing to give honest and open feedback, though one way feedback soon turns to waves goodbye.

Mr Mike O’brian, sir, please grace your customers with a open and transparent response. After 5 years of following your journey and dedicating time and money to see you succeed, I for one believe they deserve it.

Creslin.1758:

Caran.3217:

Creslin.1758:

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

I’m desperate for Arenanet to answer to the following.

After the full set of Ascended items have been drip fed into the game is another tier on the road map?

The answer will decide if I continue to play.

NB: So poor show to see that the controversial news and response to hate posts are being made by anyone other than Mike. Its your baby so take responsibility.

Yep, I agree. If Ascended is the last gear tier…I can live with it. In fact, I an even understand it because Exotics were a bit too easy to get, and at least this will give ANet a lot of “reward fodder” to make their content more interesting.

But if this is just the start of a long-chain of gear tiers…I’m out. That is a treadmill…they said their wouldn’t be a treadmill so I’m going to just have to trust that for now…but we really need some reassurance here.

Why are you fooling yourself?

Who says exotics were a bit to easy to get? The powergrinders running non-stop 24h karma trains through lost shore? The ones that exploited the dungeons early on taking short cuts to bosses to farm the hell out of them amassing marks in little time that is not possible any more? People running glass cannon AoE dps builds in WvWvW depending on their mates to get carried so they can actually collect the bags with marks, ending up with a lot more than others that screwed over by this stupid contribution system?

What exactly is your benchmark of ‘easy to get’? Did you think of people that can not play 8 hours a day? Or are you just repeating the pathetic spin, that poor excuse by which this new gear grind is being sold?

They really aren’t that hard to get…it costs like probably less than 2g per piece of exotic gear if you can craft…and it’s megaeasy to max out a crafting skill.

You can just buy items at a low buy price and then sell them at a higher sell price to get the money, then you’re done. I have nearly full exotic, and I think I’ve done maybe a total of 5 or 6 dungeon runs…rest almost all WvW…no farming at all.

Besides the fact that it is not that easy to buy low and sell high, because it also requires a time investment playing the market and knowing when and where to make that profit (also not everyone’s cup of enjoyment), what’s wrong with getting ‘endgame gear’ asap?

Many many people in this thread pointed it out, it makes no difference in the long run if you get the max gear in a day or a month. It ‘was’ (as it seems now) supposed to be easy to get because the focus wasn’t on gear.
I could deck out my alt in GW1 with the ‘best stats’ (although not necessarily best looking) gear as soon as he got to the vendor that sold it for little coin, pocket change for my main. There wasn’t even a level requirement on the gear.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with exotics being easy to get anyway. Unless you like to grind for gear as a means to keep you playing.. chasing the ever extending stat cap.

DO NOT WANT!

Snerf.1650:

Deth.4109:

Caran.3217:

Deth.4109:

Jestunhi.7429:

Deth.4109:

Jestunhi.7429:

If there weren’t another tier lined up after this one then how would they keep the new target audience?

If they want to keep grinders then they need a constant grind, not just one new tier to occupy them for a few hours each time a new item is added.

how do you know theres a “NEW” target for the game????. what if ascendeds are there way of setting up for a more logically sustainable method of fufilling the original models purpose?

Clearly this new change is not aimed at the audience which all their previous statements, press releases, interviews, etc were aimed at, because they are now saying the exact opposite of what they were saying before.

thats some what true, assuming ascendeds arent intended to become the new permanent level cap standard. i mean if they are then it pleases both types of players, example: all level 80s will in the future wear ascended armor, but by adding new infusions<possibly aquired through various means but for the purpose of my example ones specific to duneons> then hard core gear grinder pvers will have to constantly chase new infusios by doing this dungeon and thefore also be appeased.

Sorry to say but there is no logic whatsoever in your post.

People that have spent time, effort and possibly real money to get exotic gear are cheated and have to repeat the process of gearing up all over.

People that love a gear treadmill because they for whatever reason think this is needed to keep them playing will always demand more, the next tier.

Two fundamentally exclusive ‘ways to play’ – ANet sold a game on advertising A) and now they want to sell those people. This can not work ever.

thats the point of me saying its a more sustainable method, the market of gamers especially the ones who like mmos dont care for a system like what was in place with max level exotics. to most its literally “playing dress up” by adding more infusions for gear treadmill players they give them more ways to increase there effectiveness and create a flat levle “next tier”. not that those items would be any more powerful so much so as they simply increase the effectivness of that player in a particular setting. and because they can create gear upgrades via infusions rather than new armor tiers it creates the item level cap we were pormised with the original model.

Your mistake is that this game was never marketed or designed for those types of gamers.

Lots of other mmos do those games well, Anet marketed and designed this game for those of us who aren’t like that.

You don’t just change the entire design structure 3 months into a very successful mmo launch. It boggles the mind.

You can’t out-wow at being wow. Anet spoke for years about how that wasn’t their goal, and that really resonated with us. This game is never in it’s current form going to appeal to mmo players that need to chase the gear progression carrot.

if they changed design then maybe it wasnt a good idea like they thought it was going in, no one is above trial and error.

I can understand ArenaNet maybe rankling as the WoW kids ran rampant on these forums and elsewhere, jeering about “no endgame.” I just think the proper response would be to present a unique, kick-kitten endgame rather than a pale imitation of a failed concept from every other MMO – which is exactly what Agony is: a lame copy of LOTRO’s Radiance, famed for almost killing that game.

We’ve barely scratched the surface of DEs and boss scripting, and NPC AI, but forget it, let’s add in a stat for them to grind.

They aren’t going to move product by offering the same (less! older! proven to fail!) thing as everyone else. Chris and Linsey’s little letters read like something out of last decade.

If not for anything else, the number of loyal fans who pour their heart out and posted their feelings and concerns in this thread should be a loud enough wake up call to the devs. Unless, of course, if it didn’t bother them in the first place.

Deth.4109:

Snerf.1650:

Deth.4109:

Caran.3217:

Deth.4109:

Jestunhi.7429:

Deth.4109:

Jestunhi.7429:

If there weren’t another tier lined up after this one then how would they keep the new target audience?

If they want to keep grinders then they need a constant grind, not just one new tier to occupy them for a few hours each time a new item is added.

how do you know theres a “NEW” target for the game????. what if ascendeds are there way of setting up for a more logically sustainable method of fufilling the original models purpose?

Clearly this new change is not aimed at the audience which all their previous statements, press releases, interviews, etc were aimed at, because they are now saying the exact opposite of what they were saying before.

thats some what true, assuming ascendeds arent intended to become the new permanent level cap standard. i mean if they are then it pleases both types of players, example: all level 80s will in the future wear ascended armor, but by adding new infusions<possibly aquired through various means but for the purpose of my example ones specific to duneons> then hard core gear grinder pvers will have to constantly chase new infusios by doing this dungeon and thefore also be appeased.

Sorry to say but there is no logic whatsoever in your post.

People that have spent time, effort and possibly real money to get exotic gear are cheated and have to repeat the process of gearing up all over.

People that love a gear treadmill because they for whatever reason think this is needed to keep them playing will always demand more, the next tier.

Two fundamentally exclusive ‘ways to play’ – ANet sold a game on advertising A) and now they want to sell those people. This can not work ever.

thats the point of me saying its a more sustainable method, the market of gamers especially the ones who like mmos dont care for a system like what was in place with max level exotics. to most its literally “playing dress up” by adding more infusions for gear treadmill players they give them more ways to increase there effectiveness and create a flat levle “next tier”. not that those items would be any more powerful so much so as they simply increase the effectivness of that player in a particular setting. and because they can create gear upgrades via infusions rather than new armor tiers it creates the item level cap we were pormised with the original model.

Your mistake is that this game was never marketed or designed for those types of gamers.

Lots of other mmos do those games well, Anet marketed and designed this game for those of us who aren’t like that.

You don’t just change the entire design structure 3 months into a very successful mmo launch. It boggles the mind.

You can’t out-wow at being wow. Anet spoke for years about how that wasn’t their goal, and that really resonated with us. This game is never in it’s current form going to appeal to mmo players that need to chase the gear progression carrot.

if they changed design then maybe it wasnt a good idea like they thought it was going in, no one is above trial and error.

But it was a good idea. The launch was huge and successful, there are tons of us playing every day and enjoying it, and it was incredibly successful in GW1 which remains an awesome game to this day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx60ZwGw

A-NET you may want to watch this video before going down this road. A great detailed delivery of consequences of a gear treadmill/power creep.

I’m adding my voice to those who’ve already expressed their displeasure, their disapproval, and indignation at the introduction of the gear treadmill.

Pride comes before the fall

I honestly don’t want to see them fall because they’ve actually made a game I’ve enjoyed playing more then any other for a long long time. I felt relaxed playing this game knowing there wasn’t a rush like in other games to achieve the goals I wanted to achieve.

But now hell…..I’m really disappointed they are going to go in this direction.

I feel a bit cheated to be honest.

The problem with me being a niche person when it comes to entertainment is that the few things that are actually niche often becomes cancelled or mainstreamed.

This is why I’m worried about the future of GW2. I’m worried that future development time will go in large part to new tiers of gear. Here is my recent gaming history.

City of Heroes = Few raids. All small groups. Top end drops from trash mobs. Wow. That’s gotta be niche. Awesome. Wait? What? The new focus is on Incarnate content i.e. raids? You mean, like every other mainstream MMO? Darn. CoH is no longer niche. /quit.

Star Wars, The Old Republic = Story based MMO. Wow. Tons of cutscenes in an MMO? That’s gotta be niche. I love that. Awesome. Wait? What? The new focus is on group content, minimal cutscenes and gear grind. You mean, like every other mainstream MMO? Darn. SWTOR is no longer niche. /quit.

Now, I’m in Guild Wars 2. = No Grind MMO. Level playing field? What? That’s gotta be niche.

Now I’m HOPING history doesn’t repeat itself. Maybe I just have bad luck. But it feels (you know… emotions, those things some of you logical facts only people may have forgotten… hehe) like it’s happening again. So, right or wrong, I’m scared and getting upset. You know, emotional. You guys are logical. I’m sure you can look it up…

And don’t get me started on TV / Movie niche vs mainstream, hehe…