Guild Wars 2

Kimyrielle.3826:

Ditton.3149:

I think they should just scrap the entire thing, this whole thread is nothing but depressing and vitriolic.

Pulling the patch for now would be THE best solution at this time, but this would require ANet admitting that they majorly messed this up. Publically admitting to have been wrong takes a lot of guts and is something the vast majority of all humans seems to be unable to do, so I am not holding my breath.

But yes – delay the patch, remove Ascended gear from it entirely (and bury the idea forever!), work out new rewards for the new dungeon and then release when it’s ready. That would be the best. Right now we’re facing the danger of them releasing the patch with a system even ANet seems to have realized is a bad idea, only to have it somehow remedied later (making Ascended gear available outsides hardcore content, as their latest posting seems to indicate they would do) with a flawed result that would make nobody at all happy (hardcore players wouldn’t get their beloved gear treadmill and casual players would still have to deal with Exotics being rendered obsolete with all negative consequences thereof).

There is an easier solution.

1) Add the ascended items but reduce the stats to be on same level with the exotic items and that’s the only change to the ascended items. If the increase in stats is not so big and has no real efect efect then it will not be a problem to keep the stats at same level with the exotic items, after all only some numbers are changed. The other new things on the ascended items will remain.

People with exotic will have less reasons to complain because in the curent areas someone with exotic will be at same level as someone with ascended.

People that want to get the new ascended items can happy get them.

And yes the ascended items will still be between exotic and legendary because it will be harder to get them then the exotic but easier then legendary.

2) Add a quest/several quests exactly like the armor infusion in gw1 that will add the new upgrade slot on the exotic items. It will not change the look or the exotic name it will only add the new slot making it exactly like the ascended items. And only a quest/several quests will be the only way to get the slow on the exotic items. (You can change quest with dungeon, the entire idea is that at the end of something to find a npc that will add for free the slot cause u completed what he/she requested. You will still have to do something, play not grind, to get the slot.)

I think if above sugestions will be implemented and to be honest it’s not hard at all to implement them everyone will be happy. In first case only some numbers have to be change and i doubt it will take 1 hour to do those changes. In second case new content to play will be required and I don’t think people will complain about the fact that there is something new to do and can be done with their exotic items.

There is something I missed in my previsous post. Other dungeons. When the new area and new items will be all added (all sets) there will be not many reasons to do the other dungeons. You need 3 full runs to get the gift for the legendary. Items you get from other dungeons are not the max you can get so almost noone will farm the dungeons for items. My concern is based on the fact that the number of people that are doing the dungeons is smaller since the announce regarding the new ascended items.

Edit Reason: Replaced armor with item, I’m tired so I do mistakes.
Edit Reason 2: Changed “my sugestions” with “above sugestions” because I might not be the first one posting them

Our Studio Design Director Chris Whiteside just posted this:

“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.
Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores."

Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

crewthief.8649:

I all honesty, this is probably it for me when it comes to MMOs. Folks, with this, I think it’s clear that there is no TRUE innovation on the horizon. You either enjoy this garbage, or you don’t. And if you don’t, then you don’t enjoy MMOs apparently. I suppose I don’t enjoy MMOs.

This is probably the truest thing that has been said in this thread.

Anet campaigned on promises and we dared to believe. We dared to hope that someone finally got it. We bought into the fact that they had played MMOs too and knew the bad parts that no one wanted to deal with anymore. And we whole heartedly believed Anet when they told us that if we didn’t like MMos than we would love Guild Wars 2.

Not only did we dare to hope, but most of us went all in. We got friends that never played an MMO before to buy the game based on watching the manifesto and a few videos of content… I got real life friends to buy this game. Something I have not done for any other game I have ever played. I bought it, hook, line, and sinker.

What I failed to realize was… Arena.Net was just making an MMO. Just another MMO. It looked better, the combat was actiony and mostly responsive, it was purportedly grind free. But in the end, Arena Net really had no ambitions other than to make a good MMO, and with that MMO came all that the current dogma in MMO game design entails. They said they were making something different, and really, Guild Wars 2 is different. But, it is still just an MMO…

I should have known better, but I had faith in Arena Net. More fool me.

This doesn’t seem like the end of the world to me… In fact, I’m actually liking where this is going.

Teva.2807:

Our Studio Design Director Chris Whiteside just posted this:

“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.
Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores."

Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

Yup, it won’t be every 3 months, it’ll be every 4. Or more likely they’ll just lie and do it before than with an excuse. If you lie once and delete all the grind casual players put in for exotics they thought would last, no harm in lying again!

I’m not sure about the rest of you but how many other games have you played that had some form of gated content that you didn’t like? Or better yet, required a magic potion or resist stat to help one through it.

DaOC did this back with Trials of Atlantis.
WoW did this with the original Nax content, and subsequent fights.
WoW did it again with BC and the dungeon crawl to unlock the next content.

People hated it then, they hate it now. In the case of DaOC and the Atlantis expansion, it was the end of the game.

What happened, I have to ask, to just making a encounter fun, or new, or unique?

You could have just put a item somewhere out in the world map that someone stumbled upon that is needed to kill the boss or grant immunity I mean, call it Pet Rock Alpha 1×000. Make it rainbow in color and attach a note saying something like, but not limited to:

“You sir/madam have found the Pet Rock Alpha 1×000. Take it to the instance XYZ and throw it when the dragon breaths the fire of doom!”

I mean heck, you could have hide several items all over and 1 person in each group brings them. Combine them and it creates a potion for all to drink. Again, problem solved.

But no. You had to go and introduce something better than what we have and caused this Now my panties are in a knot. True, they are.

You haven’t read Linsey’s blog post, Have you Teva?

Seriously, reading comprehension is the very key to understanding what is being said. And reading comprehension also entails reading between the lines. Companies must think very little of their costumers if they do not realize that most of us know PR speak when we see it.

Yes, I have. I know, they are adding more ascended gear, but that isnt treadmill. It is lower class than legendary, according to arenanet, who MADE the game. That means that we dont have something higher to work to, its just something in between. She didnt say that they are adding more tiers, she said they are adding more ascended.

so how do you explain the need get ascended gear and after that you need to grind mats / recipes for infusion crystals to be made in the mystic forge.
just so you can survive the agony mechanic being put in the high end content.

“You’ll have to have some serious skills and solid tactics to make it through these Fractals. After a certain point, our new Ascended items and Infusions become crucial tools for survival. "

So no treadmill their oh sorry they reworded it slightly.

I just find this all so sad. There’s obviously been so much love put into crafting this game’s world and to shoehorn some truly ordinary mechanics into it…… Just sad. And it’s transmuted the community from generally positive to toxic.

AN has proven it does NOT care what the majority of its players have to say. The fact they are going ahead with this moronic plan when it flies in the face of not only the overwhelming public opinion but the words of their own company president proves this. The only way for the customer to get his word across is voting with their wallets. I refuse to give AN another cent while they see fit to lie and betray the fans and customers that put them on the map. I implore every other disgruntled player to do the same

Kejima.4613:

After hitting the big wall of [Ascended Armor + Ascended Infusion] the only way to continue without following the – uild Wars 1 way of stopping at the maximum – will be to add a higher tier of armor and infusion.

Then we get an expansion and repeat.
But apparently it isn’t a gear treadmill because they reduced the speed of the machine and renamed it a gear initiative. Innovative thinking.

In the end, though, for us, it is just a game. For them, it is their livelihood and business. There is only so much influence a customer can make, after that they have to do what they believe is best for their product. Unfortunately for us.

Teva.2807:

Greep.6394:

Teva.2807:

Our Studio Design Director Chris Whiteside just posted this:

“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.
Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores."

Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

Yup, it won’t be every 3 months, it’ll be every 4. Or more likely they’ll just lie and do it before than with an excuse. If you lie once and delete all the grind casual players put in for exotics they thought would last, no harm in lying again!

First of all, they didnt lie a first time. If you ACTUALLY read it, it states that it is NOT a gear treadmill.

Actually it says there not aiming for a treadmill. No where in there does it say they will not bring in a treadmill. No where does it actually answer our questions. If you ACTUALLY read it, it doesent answer anything.

Caran.3217:

Teva.2807:

Greep.6394:

Teva.2807:

Our Studio Design Director Chris Whiteside just posted this:

“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.
Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores."

Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

Yup, it won’t be every 3 months, it’ll be every 4. Or more likely they’ll just lie and do it before than with an excuse. If you lie once and delete all the grind casual players put in for exotics they thought would last, no harm in lying again!

First of all, they didnt lie a first time. If you ACTUALLY read it, it states that it is NOT a gear treadmill.

You copy & paste that developer post without any comment in this thread in he first place, something which has been done before multiple times. Next you obviously have not read any of the concerns posted by hundreds of people here, not to mention trying to understand where they’re coming from. Finally you make a blanket statement that is just quoting said post.

What is your point please?

I have read te concerns, and I do understand where they are coming from. In a matter of fact, at one point I was one of the concerned. I just think that everyone is overreacting now at this point when the mechanic isnt even out yet. You know that arenanet stinks at explaining, idk why people are overreacting.

crewthief.8649:

I’ll join others here and say that i’m pretty disappointed with this. I did alot of research on this game and it seemed to be exactly what I was looking for in an MMO. I’m fed up with gear grinds in other MMOs, and ANet was apparently catering to my demographic (and the demographic of many, many others as well). And then this. After all their pledges, after all their talk, after their Manifesto…they pull this. We all know how this ends, if you’ve been playing MMOs for any significant amount of time. Yet another complete and utter waste of time crafted in the form of entertainment. Sure, you don’t HAVE to get this gear, but then, if you want to compete in the highest end content, be it WvW or PvE, you do. It is a gear treadmill, pure and simple. In fact, it fits the definition perfectly.

One question I have. With all the hundreds and hundreds of options available to players that enjoy gear treadmills, why must they always end up changing every game I seem to end up in?

I all honesty, this is probably it for me when it comes to MMOs. Folks, with this, I think it’s clear that there is no TRUE innovation on the horizon. You either enjoy this garbage, or you don’t. And if you don’t, then you don’t enjoy MMOs apparently. I suppose I don’t enjoy MMOs.

The irony is GW2 was supposedly “The MMO you will love if you don’t like MMOs” because its mission was to break the molds when it came to the genre and avoid the elements people dislike about such games.

Yet another lie, sadly.

Teva.2807:

Yes, I have. I know, they are adding more ascended gear, but that isnt treadmill. It is lower class than legendary, according to arenanet, who MADE the game. That means that we dont have something higher to work to, its just something in between. She didnt say that they are adding more tiers, she said they are adding more ascended.

It’s actually higher class than legendary, since legendary was the same stat-wise as exotics. Stop believing their PR speak.

Teva.2807:

I have read te concerns, and I do understand where they are coming from. In a matter of fact, at one point I was one of the concerned. I just think that everyone is overreacting now at this point when the mechanic isnt even out yet. You know that arenanet stinks at explaining, idk why people are overreacting.

Common sense really; once the element gets jammed in to the game, it is going to be close to impossible to get it out.

On top of that, as pissed off as we are, the majority of people that are riled up against this change actually DO love this game and want it to do well. The problem is, this change is going to divide the community, drive off loyal fans/customers and ultimately make the game less fun. People who are not having as much fun are not going to spend as much money and less money means big problems for AN and GW2. Regardless of what camp you pitch your tent in on this issue, this is a huge problem for EVERY GW2 fan.

Teva.2807:

Caran.3217:

Teva.2807:

Greep.6394:

Teva.2807:

Our Studio Design Director Chris Whiteside just posted this:

“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.
Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores."

Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

Yup, it won’t be every 3 months, it’ll be every 4. Or more likely they’ll just lie and do it before than with an excuse. If you lie once and delete all the grind casual players put in for exotics they thought would last, no harm in lying again!

First of all, they didnt lie a first time. If you ACTUALLY read it, it states that it is NOT a gear treadmill.

You copy & paste that developer post without any comment in this thread in he first place, something which has been done before multiple times. Next you obviously have not read any of the concerns posted by hundreds of people here, not to mention trying to understand where they’re coming from. Finally you make a blanket statement that is just quoting said post.

What is your point please?

I have read te concerns, and I do understand where they are coming from. In a matter of fact, at one point I was one of the concerned. I just think that everyone is overreacting now at this point when the mechanic isnt even out yet. You know that arenanet stinks at explaining, idk why people are overreacting.

well, look the thread… how many question ppl do in this thread… how many real answer we have?

the update go on tomorrow(or today, i dont remember), and we know nothing about the future of the game… have to wait, when its too late to talk?

most of us dont have buyed this game to farm gears with better stats every 4 5 6 7 months… so now we have all the right to know if Gw2 is becoming something like this… or if this ascent gear is the real max tier with max stats.

Man the closer we get to the launch of this, the more worried I am, especially with such silence/pr stuff coming from arenanet. I dont want to have to leave, but if this goes live Ill experience the lost shore events then do so.

I just honestly cant understand why they have to put in infusion and a higher tier of gear (especially this early). I really cannot find any sort of gap between legendaries and exotics (exotics that cost/time investment that go up from nothing to legendary standards, some like mjolnir cost more then a legendary), and them leaving the manifesto behind really confuses me.

Angrec.6970:

Man the closer we get to the launch of this, the more worried I am, especially with such silence/pr stuff coming from arenanet. I dont want to have to leave, but if this goes live Ill experience the lost shore events then do so.

I just honestly cant understand why they have to put in infusion and a higher tier of gear (especially this early). I really cannot find any sort of gap between legendaries and exotics (exotics that cost/time investment that go up from nothing to legendary standards, some like mjolnir cost more then a legendary), and them leaving the manifesto behind really confuses me.

Indeed. The fact they waited to the last moment to spring this change on us shows not only how little they actually value player input but they knew this change would take a lot of flak from the majority of players. Long story short, AN got greedy and are trying to make the game more WoW-centric in a pitiful attempt to milk more box sales. As much as I love this game, I really do hope it bites them in the kitten Hard.

Teva.2807:

First of all, they didnt lie a first time. If you ACTUALLY read it, it states that it is NOT a gear treadmill.

He states it’s not a gear treadmill, then goes on to give a certifiably false statement as a way to somehow show it’s not a treadmill scenario.

“Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two.”

Currently, there are no jump in reward, massive or otherwise, between exotics and legendary. Legendary weapons are purely cosmetic and have the same stats as exotics, this was the original design which was stressed by both Mike O’Brien and Colin Johanson.

In order for the above statement to be true, they are intending add a new tier with increased stats and then increasing the stats of the legendary items to match the new tier, hence the beginning of the treadmill.

On the Infusion topic, I don’t believe it is a true “gating” mechanism. Yes, the Fractals dungeon will have the Agony mechanic, but from reading the blog post by Leah, it sounds as if Agony will only start kicking in if you decide to hang around in the dungeon for longer than 1 or 2 “runs”. Thus, a player kitted out in Exotics (or even Rares or Masterworks) could still join a group and complete 1 run through the dungeon. But if they decide to stay for a second or third time, then Agony will make that increasingly difficult.

I still don’t really understand why ANet decided to increase the stats for Ascended items though. I think if they had scrapped that idea altogether and just have Ascended items be items with an additional Infusion slot (and give players the ability to add Infusion slots to existing armor/equipment through crafting), it would avoided a lot of this kerfuffle.

I’ve asked this before but I’ll just reiterate in the hope that anet will read it but what will happen to armor from other dungeons? Will it remain exotic?

Amulrei.4973:

Angrec.6970:

Man the closer we get to the launch of this, the more worried I am, especially with such silence/pr stuff coming from arenanet. I dont want to have to leave, but if this goes live Ill experience the lost shore events then do so.

I just honestly cant understand why they have to put in infusion and a higher tier of gear (especially this early). I really cannot find any sort of gap between legendaries and exotics (exotics that cost/time investment that go up from nothing to legendary standards, some like mjolnir cost more then a legendary), and them leaving the manifesto behind really confuses me.

Indeed. The fact they waited to the last moment to spring this change on us shows not only how little they actually value player input but they knew this change would take a lot of flak from the majority of players. Long story short, AN got greedy and are trying to make the game more WoW-centric in a pitiful attempt to milk more box sales. As much as I love this game, I really do hope it bites them in the kitten Hard.

I think it is already biting them. The way they have responded to this outcry, and the outcry on every other forum that is gw2 related shows they must have completely not expected this response. I just hope they made a mistake and didnt expect this kinda response and will change the patch, but I dont think reality will be so kind.

What truly sucks is those that have already packed up and left just because this was proposed, wont be back. Two friends from real life did just that, and talking to them they told me they will never return. A third friend that plays this I have managed to talk into waiting with me till this actually hits and to see the lost shore events before leaving. Im truly frustrated because those two friends, even if arenanet changes this patch, will not be back.

Mackdose.6504:

This community has been toxic since release. I love this game, but when I read these forums, all I feel is anger. Anger at 200 pages of negative comments on ArenaNet adding content to the game that the COMMUNITY asked for.

It was clearly not the community that asked for that kind of “content”, it just was a small minority of the forum users. We don’t know what the community wants cause there is no way to tell.
Arena Net could ask what the community wants by simply performing an ingame survey. It would be easy since the necessary mechanic is there since beta.

This doesn’t look like a WoW tier to me. It doesn’t even resemble a treadmill. But because items have slightly better stats and an infusion slot, IT’S THE ENDGAME, GENERIC MMO GUYS, KITTEN THIS GAME.

It’s depends on where you come from. As a GW1 vet this looks and feels very treadmilly. As a former WoW player, it’s not a big deal at all.

Can you people please grow some sense, or some kittening respect? Anet is here to keep players happy, ALL PLAYERS not just you non-hardcore types.

Respect has to be mutual. In the current case this means Arena Net should have told us upfront what they are planing to do and maybe even discuss it with us, since this is a big change in direction.

There’s nothing wrong or evil about Ascended items, it’s not a gating mechanism, it’s not a skinner box. You get ascended gear before you need it, not grind for it to even make a first attempt the content.

The one thing wrong about this gear is that it’s new gear. If it would have been implemented as an prefix to your current gear, some (most?) of us won’t have a problem with it. They way it worked in GW1 was fine. You got your gear and than just “infused” it. End of story. No collecting new gear and no old gear got obsoleted.

Tl;dr : Stop crying, children. Act like adults, and have a little faith that the people whose livelihoods and passions are based around a NO SUB, WESTERN MADE, QUALITY PRODUCT. Anet wants you to have fun; all you want to do is cry and whine about a new content in a game that is 3 months old.

Here we don’t agree upon the definition of “new content”. In my book, new items are not new content. The dungeon itself is new content, the items and the grind for the infusions are not.

For me things are rather simple. I can excuse this new tier of gear if it is the last I will ever (including expansion packs) have to get in this game. If this is not the case, I will play until the next tier is required and then quit. But, and that’s the part that maybe is important to Arena Net, I also won’t spend any money on this game from now on until I get a definitive no on any kind of new gear with better stats or the like. If there is even the slightest chance that I will ever have to get new gear again, be it as a gating mechanism or due to an increased level cap, I see no reason to spend money on this game.
This is not an ultimatum or anything like that, it’s just a simple fact and the decision of a grown up that plays GW2 cause he likes the way it currently works and not because it’s called GuildWars or made by Arena Net. My goal is to have fun, not to play a specific game.

The only gap between exotics and legendaries is the amount of time and resources required. But isnt that the point? A legendary item, according to them, is supposed to only have cosmetic benefits and serve as a status symbol for putting in that extra time and resources. By “closing the gap” with this Ascended gear, they’re moving one step closer to making legendaries less prestigious than they are now.

The only gear grind we were told was going to be in the game was going to be purely for cosmetic purposes. Thats why exotics are readily available through multiple sources, not just one gated dungeon with a lazy and boring condition mechanic that can only be overcome by gear, not skill. How is that fun?

Everything about this dungeon contradicts the founding philosophical pillars that this game and its predecessor were built upon, the very foundation that put this company on the map. Now we are days away from them turning their backs on all that just to appease a very small vocal minority locust swarm of vertical progression addicts who don’t know how to have fun anymore unless it somehow makes them feel more powerful than other players. Ugh!

Zaxares.5419:

On the Infusion topic, I don’t believe it is a true “gating” mechanism. Yes, the Fractals dungeon will have the Agony mechanic, but from reading the blog post by Leah, it sounds as if Agony will only start kicking in if you decide to hang around in the dungeon for longer than 1 or 2 “runs”. Thus, a player kitted out in Exotics (or even Rares or Masterworks) could still join a group and complete 1 run through the dungeon. But if they decide to stay for a second or third time, then Agony will make that increasingly difficult.

I still don’t really understand why ANet decided to increase the stats for Ascended items though. I think if they had scrapped that idea altogether and just have Ascended items be items with an additional Infusion slot (and give players the ability to add Infusion slots to existing armor/equipment through crafting), it would avoided a lot of this kerfuffle.

A lot but not all. There’s one issue remaining which is the biggest in my opinion, and a major reason why people are so opposed to gear grinds. They are still gating the content, locking people out of it that aren’t on the same ‘step’ as those that have run the dungeon multiple times and did get the new gear.

And this is going to get only worse with the prospect of additional new content further down the road, as has been announced already. Going to acquire more/new tiers of Ascended gear equals new ‘keys’ to unlock the artificially introduced ‘gates’, literally looking anyone out that hasn’t played for some time.
Friends wanting to come back to do the new content with you? What you gonna tell them: ‘Sorry mate, get geared up first and maybe you can join us next week. I won’t do old content for the 500th time just to play with you, because it’s not fun for me anymore. Tough luck’.

I am making this post, my first one in this forum and probably the last one too, to express my contempt about this distasteful act ANet is committing. I have had my fair share of many MMOs that their design philosophy revolves around the neverending gearing up (and up and up …. anyway you are all familiar with the concept). I have to admit here that i was vaguely aware that GW1 was all about PVP (which i don’t really do) and had no real PVE content. So never really took the time to check the game out and i really really regret that. After the press attention GW2 got though, i begun learning slowly what GW was all about. I was so disappointed from my recent fail choice of the SWTOR that i couldn’t really persuade myself to buy GW2. I maybe read the “Manifesto” like 20 times and still couldn’t quite grasp the fact that an MMO like that existed. I was thinking that it was like i had it custom made. Anyway i decided to buy the game about 2 months ago hoping to find here what all these years was looking for (even though in my early years in the MMO world didn’t know it yet). I put since a great amount of time in the game because i loved it (i don’t dare to say how many play hours i have i will surely be taken for a nolifer). I have 3 80s full exotic and still a million things i would love to do in the game. I am afraid though i won’t, because the road this game is taking is the one i have taken so many times. Is the road i wholeheartedly hate and for no reason on earth i will take again. Ever! I would like hope somehow something will happen to reverse this but i don’t think it will. This makes me really sad because for me, if this goes down, it is not just about quitting GW2; It is more like i am done with MMOs. And like i said it makes me sad…

Caran.3217:

Zaxares.5419:

On the Infusion topic, I don’t believe it is a true “gating” mechanism. Yes, the Fractals dungeon will have the Agony mechanic, but from reading the blog post by Leah, it sounds as if Agony will only start kicking in if you decide to hang around in the dungeon for longer than 1 or 2 “runs”. Thus, a player kitted out in Exotics (or even Rares or Masterworks) could still join a group and complete 1 run through the dungeon. But if they decide to stay for a second or third time, then Agony will make that increasingly difficult.

I still don’t really understand why ANet decided to increase the stats for Ascended items though. I think if they had scrapped that idea altogether and just have Ascended items be items with an additional Infusion slot (and give players the ability to add Infusion slots to existing armor/equipment through crafting), it would avoided a lot of this kerfuffle.

A lot but not all. There’s one issue remaining which is the biggest in my opinion, and a major reason why people are so opposed to gear grinds. They are still gating the content, locking people out of it that aren’t on the same ‘step’ as those that have run the dungeon multiple times and did get the new gear.

And this is going to get only worse with the prospect of additional new content further down the road, as has been announced already. Going to acquire more/new tiers of Ascended gear equals new ‘keys’ to unlock the artificially introduced ‘gates’, literally looking anyone out that hasn’t played for some time.
Friends wanting to come back to do the new content with you? What you gonna tell them: ‘Sorry mate, get geared up first and maybe you can join us next week. I won’t do old content for the 500th time just to play with you, because it’s not fun for me anymore. Tough luck’.

considering how fractals work that wont be a problem

I’m a casual gamer. I tend not to do PVE, i preferred PVP in GW1. I paid sixty dollars because I expected to have a game that would last and be fun. The way it seems now, it appears that arenanet is going back on thier word and implementing gear progression. This would be an issue if I ever want to be competetive in wvw…I can’t compete with the time the dedicated gamers put in, let alone the gear-progression locusts. If the armor was something like infusion, that would be one thing, but i’m concerned that now there will be gear-discrimination and constant addition of a few numbers to stats, instead of content.

What’s the problem with having a dungeon that gets progressively harder and harder to beat, until it’s unbeatable? A story about a group of heroes that ventured the deepest into an ‘unlivable dungeon’…. That would be an epic story, and those would be epic quests…… Can you imagine being the only five people to have survived level 31 of the unbeatable dungeon….or taking some guildie on a ‘run’ so that he or she gets to level 15. Those would be some epic stories…. but I’m starting to think that arenanet doesn’t really value story or gameplay skill…

Kejima.4613:

At least a small treadmill will definitely come.
The infusions will be some kind of treadmill.

It will start at blue(or was it white?) and climb up the ladder.
But what happens when it reaches Ascended or Legendary?
Will they continue to add Ascended or Legendary infusions which get stronger and stronger but stay on same rarity level?

Kejima – Isuke Kejima(GW1)

They’ll add new content with new mechanics (new agonies) requiring new infusions. So yeah it’s a treadmill. Only instead of grinding for gear every update you’re grinding infusions. Except that you’ll probably wanna keep your old infusion gear around and start a new infusion set so you can still do the old content…

Mackdose.6504:

elfspelth.7654:

I just find this all so sad. There’s obviously been so much love put into crafting this game’s world and to shoehorn some truly ordinary mechanics into it…… Just sad. And it’s transmuted the community from generally positive to toxic.

This community has been toxic since release. I love this game, but when I read these forums, all I feel is anger. Anger at 200 pages of negative comments on ArenaNet adding content to the game that the COMMUNITY asked for.

This doesn’t look like a WoW tier to me. It doesn’t even resemble a treadmill. But because items have slightly better stats and an infusion slot, IT’S THE ENDGAME, GENERIC MMO GUYS, KITTEN THIS GAME.

Can you people please grow some sense, or some kittening respect? Anet is here to keep players happy, ALL PLAYERS not just you non-hardcore types.

There’s nothing wrong or evil about Ascended items, it’s not a gating mechanism, it’s not a skinner box. You get ascended gear before you need it, not grind for it to even make a first attempt the content.

Tl;dr : Stop crying, children. Act like adults, and have a little faith that the people whose livelihoods and passions are based around a NO SUB, WESTERN MADE, QUALITY PRODUCT. Anet wants you to have fun; all you want to do is cry and whine about new content in a game that is 3 months old.

Faith ….LOL …. Have faith in a MMO developer ….News Flash ….MMO developers for what ever reason don’t have a very good track record at doing what’s good for the community they tend to do what they think will net them the greatest income and that usually backfires.

The community didn’t ask for it, the top maybe 2 or 3 % of the WoW refugees cry-babied for it then left to play a panda anyway.

I don’t care about another tier in the gear ladder so much, what I hate about this is it’s centering the endgame around instanced squad game play.

I don’t want to be pigeonholed into a single dungeon at endgame. Right now the game lets me be the best I can be and do it any way I want. I can do massively multiplayer events for Karma, run dungeons, craft top end gear, or do a little bit of all these activities to get the best gear in the game.

The endgame now sounds like the narrow focused pigeonholing (this is the only way to play) endgame centric crap I was trying to get away from.

I’m sick of these little coop instances passing themselves off as massively multiplayer experiences. They need to beef up the strength of this game and not try to make the WoW babies happy with there little private dungeons. What a waste all that development on content that many players will never see because its locked away behind a gear treadmill.

Zaxares.5419:

On the Infusion topic, I don’t believe it is a true “gating” mechanism. Yes, the Fractals dungeon will have the Agony mechanic, but from reading the blog post by Leah, it sounds as if Agony will only start kicking in if you decide to hang around in the dungeon for longer than 1 or 2 “runs”. Thus, a player kitted out in Exotics (or even Rares or Masterworks) could still join a group and complete 1 run through the dungeon. But if they decide to stay for a second or third time, then Agony will make that increasingly difficult.

I still don’t really understand why ANet decided to increase the stats for Ascended items though. I think if they had scrapped that idea altogether and just have Ascended items be items with an additional Infusion slot (and give players the ability to add Infusion slots to existing armor/equipment through crafting), it would avoided a lot of this kerfuffle.

Yes you can do the lower levels, you just can’t get to the higher levels with the better loot until you’ve properly grinded.

vox.5019:

Kejima.4613:

At least a small treadmill will definitely come.
The infusions will be some kind of treadmill.

It will start at blue(or was it white?) and climb up the ladder.
But what happens when it reaches Ascended or Legendary?
Will they continue to add Ascended or Legendary infusions which get stronger and stronger but stay on same rarity level?

Kejima – Isuke Kejima(GW1)

They’ll add new content with new mechanics (new agonies) requiring new infusions. So yeah it’s a treadmill. Only instead of grinding for gear every update you’re grinding infusions. Except that you’ll probably wanna keep your old infusion gear around and start a new infusion set so you can still do the old content…

Indeed, and each new set of gear is at least 12 soulbound inventory spaces, which you can only store in your bank…

If you do the new dungeons and WvW you will reach your entire inventory limit in soulbound gear very easy.

Also, WHY IS THIS GOING INTO WVW? just make this PVE only and leave WVW alone…. like seriously? give PVE people countless things to grind for, leave WVW at exotics only and just add new and interesting maps/game types

“stats and functionality normally added to gear through upgrade components are actually built into Ascended items”

why dose no one think this is a big deal…. slightly higher stats but less customization is kinda important

To all of you crying about how you think ascended gear is ruining the game- you are just angry because you have more stuff to do in-game now. You didn’t waste your time with exotics, they’ve been great for a while now… and they will stay great even longer.

They even said that ascended gear is going to be released slowly, I mean, all we’re starting with here is a back piece and a ring. Come on. I know that I wouldn’t want the game to just stay the same without any new content like this… it’s great.

Lastly, referring to this as some kind of epic grind is crazy. Just because you hear that there’s new gear, you assume that it’ll take ages to get and that this is going to be a never-ending sequence of new tiers of gear. You’re the ones making the big mistake. It’s your fault that you’re losing interest.

So, it was a tough decision, but I just can’t afford at this point in my life to be sucked into a gear treadmill. If GW2 goes down this path, I don’t have the time.

I am boycotting this patch. I will return in three weeks if things turn out for the best.
I’ve wasted enough time worrying in this thread, so I won’t be reading it further.

Good luck to everyone. I hope Arenanet finds its way.

CrassBippy.4619:

Also, WHY IS THIS GOING INTO WVW? just make this PVE only and leave WVW alone…. like seriously? give PVE people countless things to grind for, leave WVW at exotics only and just add new and interesting maps/game types

The reason why would be simply because you bring your PvE gear into WvW. They should have made this like infusion was in GW1 where you just enchanted your current gear using a simple quest… I mean it was a great design in the original that did not make your current gear useless.

I think its an awesome idea, Gear upgrade really motivates players to keep playing to achieve a better equipment, and besides we’ll have more end-game content to focus in.
i hope every BIG patch, they introduce new gear quality aswell as Max Level increased and new skills.

For QQ’ers : – Remenber Legendary weapons are stronger than Exotics, So stop QQ.

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Caran.3217:

Zaxares.5419:

On the Infusion topic, I don’t believe it is a true “gating” mechanism. Yes, the Fractals dungeon will have the Agony mechanic, but from reading the blog post by Leah, it sounds as if Agony will only start kicking in if you decide to hang around in the dungeon for longer than 1 or 2 “runs”. Thus, a player kitted out in Exotics (or even Rares or Masterworks) could still join a group and complete 1 run through the dungeon. But if they decide to stay for a second or third time, then Agony will make that increasingly difficult.

I still don’t really understand why ANet decided to increase the stats for Ascended items though. I think if they had scrapped that idea altogether and just have Ascended items be items with an additional Infusion slot (and give players the ability to add Infusion slots to existing armor/equipment through crafting), it would avoided a lot of this kerfuffle.

A lot but not all. There’s one issue remaining which is the biggest in my opinion, and a major reason why people are so opposed to gear grinds. They are still gating the content, locking people out of it that aren’t on the same ‘step’ as those that have run the dungeon multiple times and did get the new gear.

And this is going to get only worse with the prospect of additional new content further down the road, as has been announced already. Going to acquire more/new tiers of Ascended gear equals new ‘keys’ to unlock the artificially introduced ‘gates’, literally looking anyone out that hasn’t played for some time.
Friends wanting to come back to do the new content with you? What you gonna tell them: ‘Sorry mate, get geared up first and maybe you can join us next week. I won’t do old content for the 500th time just to play with you, because it’s not fun for me anymore. Tough luck’.

considering how fractals work that wont be a problem

Read the announcement on Guildwars2.com: The game will be [quote:] “SCALING the dungeon to the HIGHEST common attained level”. Reading further that highest level is clearly defined by as how many times someone has run the dungeon (the term ‘level’ here is very misleading). As you get better rewards with higher ‘scaling’, which eventually will be Ascended gear loot, how is that not eventually locking players out that have none?

Vash.9183:

To all of you crying about how you think ascended gear is ruining the game- you are just angry because you have more stuff to do in-game now.

Pretty sure that is definitely NOT why I am mad.

You realize that the gear does not = more stuff to do right? The new content is a brilliant idea and the dungeons sound really cool.

No, I am not mad because of having more things to do. That’s why I love this game, I can log in and do whatever I want. For now.

I am mad because they are going back on core concepts that they sold us on, hell that they sounded passionate about.

Greep.6394:

Teva.2807:

Our Studio Design Director Chris Whiteside just posted this:

“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.
Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores."

Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

Yup, it won’t be every 3 months, it’ll be every 4. Or more likely they’ll just lie and do it before than with an excuse. If you lie once and delete all the grind casual players put in for exotics they thought would last, no harm in lying again!

You seem like someone who is always full of assumptions. Stop trying contradict everything.

Seriously, people, this is not that big of a deal at all. Stop being irritated about having to do something new.

Exotic gear is like the only “big thing” when it comes to gear. Sure there’s legendary, but those equipments really fit their titles. Where I’m going with this is that it is perfectly fine to add a new tier and even makes perfect sense. Especially since it’s not even hard to get exotic gear at all.

krookie.6378:

CrassBippy.4619:

Guys in these situations its usually someone (publisher or stakeholders) telling them they need to change. Look at diablo 3 and the real money auction hall. Activision made them shoehorn that awful idea into the game and it alienated alot of players just to make money. ANET having to do this probably has to do with maybe a dip in online players, so they are forced to try this to get them back. NCsoft is losing money, they are desperate

Dip in player numbers doesn’t effect GW2 the same way it does other games because there is no subscription fee. In other words, if players stop playing the game, GW2 is not losing any money.

GW2 makes money from the cash shop and box sales. If the issue was revenue loss, there would’ve been a huge push of cash shop items.

Besides, do you honestly think that they’ve designed and balanced a whole new tier of items on such a short notice? I highly doubt it. This patch has probably been long on the making, possibly even before the game’s official launch.

Which makes no sense given now they are having to completely redo the current legendary’s in the game instead of just bringing them in at what, according to your post, they were always ment to be. I completely disagree. This feels like it is a last minute addition to try to cater to the “WoW” crowd gear grind locust. No one in there right mind would do something just to purposely redo it later. That is very counter intuitive in the MMO world where you only have so much resources to throw at an area. In which case using those resources to rebalance exiting working gear instead of fixing broken and bugged gear makes no sense.

I find it quite funny that some people don’t understand that exotics and legendaries are statistically equivalent today. They then proceed to deride the rest of us for lacking comprehension that this new gear is BETWEEN EXOTICS AND LEGENDARIES. Lol. DId you miss the point that this means that they are now beefing up legendaries by 8-15%, making legendaries mandatory grinds too!??

Velron.3729:

“Dip in player numbers doesn’t effect GW2 the same way it does other games because there is no subscription fee. In other words, if players stop playing the game, GW2 is not losing any money.
GW2 makes money from the cash shop and box sales. If the issue was revenue loss, there would’ve been a huge push of cash shop items.”

Actually there was. Halloween event, the amount of gems sold to open those black lion chests to try to get the skins was insane.

Now I’m not saying its the reason for anything, but there was a huge cash shop item push, incredibly huge.

Which is fine. Thing is if people are focusing on Vertical progression, gear grind, they are less apt to buy things in the cash shop because there not able to just stop and enjoy the game. Heck i just got my t3 culture gear because i was finally able to relax having filled my exotic’s and got to finally look around at what all there was. Now i just want to sigh realizing i now have grind out another set. Bad timing on my part i guess.

Velron.3729:

“Dip in player numbers doesn’t effect GW2 the same way it does other games because there is no subscription fee. In other words, if players stop playing the game, GW2 is not losing any money.
GW2 makes money from the cash shop and box sales. If the issue was revenue loss, there would’ve been a huge push of cash shop items.”

Actually there was. Halloween event, the amount of gems sold to open those black lion chests to try to get the skins was insane.

Now I’m not saying its the reason for anything, but there was a huge cash shop item push, incredibly huge.

It was a temporary thing though, not exactly a push. Besides it backfired on them. I highly doubt that anyone in their right mind would blindly purchase keys until the drop rate of these skins is revealed.

I was mostly talking about permanent additions to the cash shop that would continue making them money all the time.

Punk.4072:

For QQ’ers : – Remenber Legendary weapons are stronger than Exotics, So stop QQ.

No, actually, they aren’t. Legendary weapons are purely cosmetic. They have the exact same stats as Exotics do.

Vash.9183:

Columba.9730:

I find it quite funny that some people don’t understand that exotics and legendaries are statistically equivalent today. They then proceed to deride the rest of us for lacking comprehension that this new gear is BETWEEN EXOTICS AND LEGENDARIES. Lol. DId you miss the point that this means that they are now beefing up legendaries by 8-15%, making legendaries mandatory grinds too!??

Dude, they have already stated that legendary equipment will have stat boosts in the future. Where have you been.

That’s what Columba said, and it’s part of the problem.

I don’t want any new gear, ever, to be better than existing Exotics. Fill out more Exotics and add new cosmetic Mystic Forge recipe uniques and Legendaries, but only at the same statistical power level as Exotics. Never, ever higher.

SiNoS.2147:

Velron.3729:

“Dip in player numbers doesn’t effect GW2 the same way it does other games because there is no subscription fee. In other words, if players stop playing the game, GW2 is not losing any money.
GW2 makes money from the cash shop and box sales. If the issue was revenue loss, there would’ve been a huge push of cash shop items.”

Actually there was. Halloween event, the amount of gems sold to open those black lion chests to try to get the skins was insane.

Now I’m not saying its the reason for anything, but there was a huge cash shop item push, incredibly huge.

Which is fine. Thing is if people are focusing on Vertical progression, gear grind, they are less apt to buy things in the cash shop because there not able to just stop and enjoy the game. Heck i just got my t3 culture gear because i was finally able to relax having filled my exotic’s and got to finally look around at what all there was. Now i just want to sigh realizing i now have grind out another set. Bad timing on my part i guess.

Don’t worry, I’m incredibly against this. It is a horrible move, making a half kitten attempt at gear progression to try to bring back the content locusts that wont keep their attention for very long…is probably a terrible decision in the long run.

There is a huge core fan base that are loyal, and buy gems just to support the company, because they love the game….who are all going to boycott and withhold their money.

I’m one of them, I’ve bought tons of gems and did so because I loved the game and what they delivered after following it for years…sure there were issues, but they delivered on the principles. So I supported the company and didn’t really hesitate buying gems at all, and I definitely bought at least 3-4 games worth of gems by now. Hell I pre-purchased my friend’s copy of the game just so we could play the BWE’s together.

I wont be spending another cent. I don’t even really know if I’ll play anymore if this goes through as planned. My motivation is really sapped. Played every day since head-start and last night I just sat on the comp in TS chatting with guildies not even playing, instead I watched the download bar on another game to dick around in until they give word on whether or not this is gonna go down.