Guild Wars 2

Teva.2807:

I have read te concerns, and I do understand where they are coming from. In a matter of fact, at one point I was one of the concerned. I just think that everyone is overreacting now at this point when the mechanic isnt even out yet. You know that arenanet stinks at explaining, idk why people are overreacting.

You are aware that humans and people plan their time correct? Time is usually planned with the future in mind. So if I am going to determine if my time is better invested in this game or another I think I do have the right to ask the hard questions now and complain now, then realize 3 months down that line that I’ve wasted all that time that could have been better spent.

Also don’t think that they are not doing it on purpose to not only create a profitable chance but also to protect themselves for any future changes. They are and will forever be a profit driven gaming company and thus will always do things for their best interest only, including leaving any loop holes that they can jump into if the need so arises.

hi anet. i’m quite excited over the new addition and cant wait to know more about it! happy with the game as it is for which ive paid! keep the good work up! i wish im part of the development team but i am not in that field so i guess i will just enjoy your game!!

Why aren’t the two gentlemen who originally declared that there would be no gear grind out front and center on this issue? Come out and take the heat; don’t send in others to do that which you should be doing….

Vash.9183:

And just for the record, anet would actually have to release something that requires an epic grind-fest to legitimately be called liars.

This is not such an event. This is creating a more structured system of equipment. Really, this game is still new. There is still more new things to come. Remember- this is a living, breathing game.

Which is no excuse for lying to us in the first place. New things are fine, new gear with better stats and a gear treadmill called infusions are not. It was done in GW1 without new gear and the treadmill, you got your infusion automatically just by following the story. If it would be like that in GW2 I would be fine with it, but what we are getting now is just bullkitten.

Vash.9183:

Velron.3729:

Vash.9183:

To all of you crying about how you think ascended gear is ruining the game- you are just angry because you have more stuff to do in-game now.

Pretty sure that is definitely NOT why I am mad.

You realize that the gear does not = more stuff to do right? The new content is a brilliant idea and the dungeons sound really cool.

No, I am not mad because of having more things to do. That’s why I love this game, I can log in and do whatever I want. For now.

I am mad because they are going back on core concepts that they sold us on, hell that they sounded passionate about.

The big issue that you are having is thinking that anet is has “lied.” This update in no way creates a grind treadmill, in fact, it should have already been in the game. Exotic gear is not hard to get. This is that end-game armor that we should have seen already.

Well exotics were supposed to be the end game armor stat wise, and a lot of people farmed for lots of exotic sets, karma armor and transmuted them. I suspect that a lot of people are upset because all that time was wasted and they will now need all new WvW sets.

Lucky for me, I only made a few exotic sets and used no rare skins or transmutations on them… and I will not stick around to farm this next tier of gear so that it can all be wasted when they decide to make the next higher tier.

They should scrap making a higher tier and or make WvW use pvp gear. If not I am probably going to quit. (probably only because I am leaving room for something acceptable that I have not thought of)

Part of the fun was that we could fully gear all of our alts and play WvW and do newer fun content when it came out. I have 21 character slots, maxed bank and maxed out all crafting… oh well… lol…

and my thought on ascended gear is positive. i think about going killing the musaat in gw1 w/o my armour infused was fun.. and getting it infused was another story.. so yeah.. im not fuss with it as i am still enjoying your game currently.

Vash.9183:

This update is a great one. Stop being so negative

If we’d all agree with that, there wouldn’t be 160 pages worth of mostly negative feedback about it, now wouldn’t it?

You like the Ascended gear idea? Fine, that’s your prerogative. I don’t. Seems many others don’t either. But what I really don’t appreciate (I keep seeing this a lot in this thread) is:

Statement: “I don’t think Ascended gear is a really good idea because…..”
Reply some variant of: “Shut up casual whiners. Your opinion doesn’t count because I have a different one.”

This is not only belittling and offensive, it’s also not making your line of reasoning look really well thought-out, you know?

Vash.9183:

Gilandred.9870:

Why aren’t the two gentlemen who originally declared that there would be no gear grind out front and center on this issue? Come out and take the heat; don’t send in others to do that which you should be doing….

If you consider this a gear-grind, then you must not have played many MMOs in depth. This is just a much needed addition to end-game armor. All you have had to do up to this point was run a couple dungeons and you have your top-tier exotic armor.

As it was supposed to be? Do you understand the meaning of ‘not having to grind for gear’? Doesn’t this imply the so called top-gear is easy to get?

I loved that idea, that’s why i bought the game, and that’s why i will stop playing and spending on money in the future on this franchise if they change their original promise. Hint: I have played a lot of MMORPGs (yeah what happened to the RPG part i may ask) over the last 10 years, some very much in depth. I know what i want.

Talindra.4958:

and my thought on ascended gear is positive. i think about going killing the musaat in gw1 w/o my armour infused was fun.. and getting it infused was another story.. so yeah.. im not fuss with it as i am still enjoying your game currently.

You can’t infuse your armor here, you must grind a gear with infusion slots to be able to complete “new” endgame.

You people really have some trust issues. They have officially said that they will not be creating further tiers of armor past this set. I’m sure they’re aware that they can be quoted on such matters. You aren’t wasting anything.

Vash.9183:

You people really have some trust issues. They have officially said that they will not be creating further tiers of armor past this set. I’m sure they’re aware that they can be quoted on such matters. You aren’t wasting anything.

Decieve me once and I’ll look at any further statements from you with great suspicion. My trust in Anet to live up to their word is shattered.

I feel I’ve been subjected to a bait-and-switch in buying this game. It’s truely a shame as I dearly loved the original Guild wars and this game as well up till now.

Vash.9183:

You people really have some trust issues. They have officially said that they will not be creating further tiers of armor past this set. I’m sure they’re aware that they can be quoted on such matters. You aren’t wasting anything.

Can I ask you for the source? I am pretty sure they only stated they aren’t going to add new tier every three months. Which is pretty vague.

Vash.9183:

You people really have some trust issues. They have officially said that they will not be creating further tiers of armor past this set. I’m sure they’re aware that they can be quoted on such matters. You aren’t wasting anything.

No they didn’t, they said they wouldn’t be making a better set every three months. We all know that they will make stronger sets as time goes on because of this update. Anyone who thinks otherwise are fooling themselves.

Vash.9183:

You people really have some trust issues. They have officially said that they will not be creating further tiers of armor past this set. I’m sure they’re aware that they can be quoted on such matters. You aren’t wasting anything.

“There are multiple types of Infusions and Infusion slots. In November, we’ll introduce Offensive, Defensive, and Omni Infusions of Fine rarity” → masterwork → rare → exotic → ascended

And you will be forced to grind them all =)

I just wanted to toss my two cents in here (but would rather not read 160 pages of player feedback, sorry!)…

I’ve read Lindsay’s post and have to say I’m disappointed. THE thing I liked the most about this game when I bought it was that there was no gear progression. For all this is worth, I may as well go back to raiding you-know-where. I have no interest—none, nada, zilch—in running in that endless “+2 to each stat” race ever again, and if this game is heading that direction already, I’ll be going back to “no-MMO-land” once again.

Seriously, all of the talk from ArenaNet about original ideas, how gaming should be, what the players want, the player is the hero, la de da, and then…this??? Not even three months and we’ve already caved to gaming’s most common (and lowest) denominator? Ugh.

Vash.9183:

You people really have some trust issues. They have officially said that they will not be creating further tiers of armor past this set. I’m sure they’re aware that they can be quoted on such matters. You aren’t wasting anything.

You don’t need further tiers to implement a gear treadmill, those Infusions, which are not gained automatically, are enough.
Also, Exotics were meant to be the top of the food chain. A lot of people relied on that promise and spend karma, gold or dungeon tokens on multiple sets of gear that are now getting obsoleted by the fact that you can’t infuse them and that there is a new tier with better stats coming.

Vash.9183:

To all of you crying about how you think ascended gear is ruining the game- you are just angry because you have more stuff to do in-game now. You didn’t waste your time with exotics, they’ve been great for a while now… and they will stay great even longer.

They even said that ascended gear is going to be released slowly, I mean, all we’re starting with here is a back piece and a ring. Come on. I know that I wouldn’t want the game to just stay the same without any new content like this… it’s great.

Lastly, referring to this as some kind of epic grind is crazy. Just because you hear that there’s new gear, you assume that it’ll take ages to get and that this is going to be a never-ending sequence of new tiers of gear. You’re the ones making the big mistake. It’s your fault that you’re losing interest.

I wasn’t going to reply again, i think 5 or so posts is enough. But I had to comment on this. Not on all the things wrong in this post. (ie. it -will- take a grind to get, they have specifically announced that they want these to be a halfway point between exotics & legendaries. Or perhaps how the gear isn’t the gear-grind, the infusions will be); no, I need to address that last sentence.

I was not losing interest in this game at all, until i read the article. I was playing for hours a day, hundreds over the 2-3months since pre-release, and was not slowing down. I was just working up my 3rd alt to 80, and had the other two in max level gear I liked with dyes I liked. I spent hours planning on what exotic weapon skins I still wanted to aquire for them. I went to bed late (after staying up late playing) thinking of the game, I woke up thinking about it, and daydreamed all day at work about it. I’ve spent way too much time at work on gw2 sites that aren’t blocked. I’ve spent more real money on gems than I paid for the game. I was -not- losing interest.

This announcement hit me like nothing in my life. I cannot even express in words what it felt like. Some sort of terror-misery-anger? The most comparable feelings I can equate it to based on other events from my life are the time I caught my s.o. cheating and another time when I was dumped, out of the blue. This was worse, but similar. I’ve never felt so betrayed in my life, which is ridiculous, given the two examples I just mentioned. I only mention that because it helps me illustrate my deep love for the game I had been playing for about 3 months.

I am deeply offended you think my immediate and abrupt distaste for playing this game is somehow -my- personal fault. This came out of the blue in complete contradiction to every single release of official information about the game before its launch. The game was marketed with the exact opposite philosophy that is being added a matter of days from its announced arrival. That is the cause of my deep dissatisfaction.

kistell.5684:

Oh great can see it now....

(Visits mystic well to create infusion crystal)

#error 7089 The mystic well requires infusion core x 5

Please visit the on-line store to purchase your cores.

:)

Bingo.

This gear progression faction vs GW1 veteran faction thing looks like a smokescreen. I suspect its really about resource grinding and gem sales.

Think about it. Assume for the moment that we’ve been told the truth - with the exception that there’s now a single new top tier that will from now on be the top tier in the game rather than the exotics that were originally advertised by Anet.

The full ascended armor will be rolled out slowly, probably so that the demand for resources won’t send the markets into shock. According to Linsey Murdock, "As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended and Legendary items (to say nothing of the other rewards you can earn by playing the content)." They’re giving them away. Anet want us all to have them. At least the initial rings and backpacks. As for the rest of the set pieces they can control the difficulty of acquiring them by changing the drop rates as needed. They can’t do that (at least not directly) with crafted exotics, karma Orr exotics or dungeon token exotics, which many of us have already.

We’ve been shown one ring that’s got Magic Find, Precision and Power for stats. That’s one ring only. Surely there is one that has Vitality Toughness and Power, and one for each of all the other existing stat combinations, otherwise this entire new system would be pointless.

The socket is the real key here. Infusion stones replace things like the Superior rune of the Mesmer, which has 33% increased stun duration. Linsey has stated that these infusions will be offensive, defensive and omni, and paired with their "like slot" (whatever that means), and also that they will be crafted from the new mystic forge recipes (200 or so new recipes in this patch).

Right now no one but Anet know exactly what these Infusion stones will do, but many of the ones they replace have skills very similar to the trait skills that we pick in our skill trees. What engineer for example wouldn’t want one of these if there was one that had for example something like a weaker version of the grenadier trait? Especially if the engineer had no points in the power tree. Or a generic one that granted retaliation for 10 seconds on using an elite skill. This new gear is useable everywhere except in structured PvP, which allows Anet to say that there’s an area of the game that you can always be competitive at maximum level with no extra cash investment or grinding of any sort.

Infusion stones, created at the mystic forge, possibly requiring something like 10 mystic stones, 10 lodestones, 10 wines and a stack of dust for a high end infusion stone would create a massive demand for gems in the gem store, a small sink for gold and a huge grinding requirement for the other materials. Don’t want to grind? Buy more gems and sell them to players willing to do the grinding for double the mats required to buy the gems and fill the other recipe requirements for their own gear.

Think of how many mystic stones would be needed for a full set for everyone’s main and alts. Then when the first expansion hits the stores in a year or so, we can all do it again for the new higher level ascended armor and infusions to match the new level cap. Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLHfq2lJY5A&t=58m35s Ascended armor will still be best in slot, and legendaries will still be equivalent to best in slot. But you’ll still need to upgrade your infusions and also your new ascendeds if you haven’t done the legendary grind. Anet has been telling us the truth all along, there won’t be a GEAR grind. It’ll be a gold/resource grind.

Long run will this be good for the game? Perhaps. Only time will tell, and it’ll depend on how its implemented and how greedy Anet and/or their publisher are. I’ve done a lot of speculation here (as nearly everyone has in this thread), and I’ve probably overstated the power, impact and cost to the players. But players will pay, one way or another, and Anet will profit. How much remains to be seen. Also the extent to which it will trivialize existing pve content remains to be seen. I am hopeful but not optimistic.

Vash.9183:

You people really have some trust issues. They have officially said that they will not be creating further tiers of armor past this set. I’m sure they’re aware that they can be quoted on such matters. You aren’t wasting anything.

No they didn’t. They didn’t say anything like that at all. In fact, they have said quite the opposite.

What the two people writing about this did say was, to paraphrase, “We are not adding gear treadmill, but here is a new tier of gear and we will be adding more of this gear later, oh and we wanted to save adding gear tiers for expansions but we will do this one early to appease some folk.”

Pretty much the opposite of what you are saying, Vash.

thedukesd.3829:

I read some of the posts (not all I admit) and I see how Gw1 history repeat itself:
- paragon rework promise – gw2 launch and no paragon rework…
- shadow form nerf – people complaining about the nerf before it was implemented, nerf was implemented, most people complaining about the nerf before it was implemented left the game

This is way worse, it’s not about a class, not to mention a single skill, this is about abandoning a fundamental principle the game design was supposed the be based on.

The magnitude of this ‘change in direction’ doesn’t even compare, not closely. Judging from this thread that said principle was one if not the primary reason why they bought this game. It is for me.

There’s quite a bit of misconception in the notion that Anet should reverse course due to player dissatisfaction. While Anet may take player opinions into account when making decisions about the direction of the game, their ultimate goal will assumably be to better the game. This goal will at times run contradictory to the thoughts of the player base since they have access to information, including future releases, that we do not as players.

Take into account, for instance, the release of updated AI or general enemy mob stats and mechanics. Players at present may not be able to keep pace with more volatile combat, and slight improvements to armor and stats can help aleviate that stress without forcing dramatic improvements in player skill or playstyle. An additional armor tier is welcome under those conditions, noting that any item based addition to the game should still reinforce player skill improvement.

That said, we know that these items will be released. What matters now is the way in which Anet chooses to implement the gear. Lowering the barrier for acquiring these items will not only catalyze player adoption of the new tier, it will also serve to lower the barrier of entry for new content and new dungeons.

GW2 is still an infant in the gaming world, and a massive one at that. It will take a great deal of time for Anet to mature it to what it will eventually become. You can climb aboard the QQ-betrayal-train and watch it eventually derail, but there’s nothing to lose by waiting to see how Anet chooses to implement “progress.” Some of us from 05 have seen Anet make what we would consider mistakes, but GW1 turned out to be a relatively beautiful game for its time. It’s more than likely that GW2 will fair similar storms to a brighter horizon.

xelynruk.6983:

There’s quite a bit of misconception in the notion that Anet should reverse course due to player dissatisfaction. While Anet may take player opinions into account when making decisions about the direction of the game, their ultimate goal will assumably be to better the game. This goal will at times run contradictory to the thoughts of the player base since they have access to information, including future releases, that we do not as players.

Take into account, for instance, the release of updated AI or general enemy mob stats and mechanics. Players at present may not be able to keep pace with more volatile combat, and slight improvements to armor and stats can help aleviate that stress without forcing dramatic improvements in player skill or playstyle. An additional armor tier is welcome under those conditions, noting that any item based addition to the game should still reinforce player skill improvement.

That said, we know that these items will be released. What matters now is the way in which Anet chooses to implement the gear. Lowering the barrier for acquiring these items will not only catalyze player adoption of the new tier, it will also serve to lower the barrier of entry for new content and new dungeons.

GW2 is still an infant in the gaming world, and a massive one at that. It will take a great deal of time for Anet to mature it to what it will eventually become. You can climb aboard the QQ-betrayal-train and watch it eventually derail, but there’s nothing to lose by waiting to see how Anet chooses to implement “progress.” Some of us from 05 have seen Anet make what we would consider mistakes, but GW1 turned out to be a relatively beautiful game for its time. It’s more than likely that GW2 will fair similar storms to a brighter horizon.

I am not in favor of this new update.

I do not agree with most of what you have said.

It is not fact yet that this update will happen.

There is plenty to lose waiting to see how this comes out, that being all of our max level exotic sets and custom skins or transmutation stones we used on them.. lol…

It is not lost on me that you also refer to people against this change as QQers and that this was your first post ever… hmmm….

Once this new gear comes out, I won’t have to bother with old content anymore.
Can’t wait.

HiddenNick.7206:

One thing that a lot of people misunderstood – the highest gear tier is and its going to be legendary (not exotics as some of you states). Ascended gear will not change that… Or any other tier.

Yeah we misunderstood when we were told legendary tier was the same stats for a very important reason.

Vash.9183:

You people really have some trust issues. They have officially said that they will not be creating further tiers of armor past this set. I’m sure they’re aware that they can be quoted on such matters. You aren’t wasting anything.

They officially said and marketed the game on the back of…. no gear grind multiple paths to the same goal so no matter how you like to play no-one would have a gear advantage and no exclusion from content based on gear… and 3 months in… Trust really?

Kelvran.9047:

The full ascended armor will be rolled out slowly, probably so that the demand for resources won’t send the markets into shock. According to Linsey Murdock, “As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended and Legendary items (to say nothing of the other rewards you can earn by playing the content).” They’re giving them away. Anet want us all to have them. At least the initial rings and backpacks. As for the rest of the set pieces they can control the difficulty of acquiring them by changing the drop rates as needed. They can’t do that (at least not directly) with crafted exotics, karma Orr exotics or dungeon token exotics, which many of us have already.

So they’re giving out free Legendaries now? Honestly it’s pretty obvious that she meant “complementary.” Gear that goes with the new content. Dunno how this free ascendeds myth is spreading.

xelynruk.6983:

Take into account, for instance, the release of updated AI or general enemy mob stats and mechanics. Players at present may not be able to keep pace with more volatile combat, and slight improvements to armor and stats can help aleviate that stress without forcing dramatic improvements in player skill or playstyle. An additional armor tier is welcome under those conditions, noting that any item based addition to the game should still reinforce player skill improvement

LOL. Really?

Thats your counter argument? The Dev’s know the new mobs are too tough for us in our current gear so they made a new tier of gear for us?

So instead of balancing the encounters to our gear levels and making the fights more dynamic and fun, they are adding more more gear for us to combat the increased Armor and stats (your words) on the mobs that they are adding …. thats kinda a cyclic argument no?

Bottom line, its the start of a gear treadmill. Am i shocked this is happening? Nope not at all. Dissapointed? Totally, based on the hype and pre-release press for this game.

A lot but not all. There’s one issue remaining which is the biggest in my opinion, and a major reason why people are so opposed to gear grinds. They are still gating the content, locking people out of it that aren’t on the same ‘step’ as those that have run the dungeon multiple times and did get the new gear.

Am I the only one here wondering how come there isn’t a public beta server?

If there was, this content never would go through, I find strange that AN doesn’t want feedback from the community — before releasing any major patch, and more so with changes so drastic as this one.

Unfortunately, we can say it was very much hidden until almost live.

Yet ANet, you are seeing the very eloquent answer from your community, no matter how you may spin this with PR at this stage — This change is a huge error.

Revert the ascendent gear stats back to exotics, and don’t add any gating system that requires grinding… Unless you want to keep your customers from playing the content, which is the only thing that kind of system accomplishes. Well, except for being as efficient in driving the customers away. Tested and tried many times before, in every case a huge failure.

vox.5019:

Kelvran.9047:

The full ascended armor will be rolled out slowly, probably so that the demand for resources won’t send the markets into shock. According to Linsey Murdock, “As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended and Legendary items (to say nothing of the other rewards you can earn by playing the content).” They’re giving them away. Anet want us all to have them. At least the initial rings and backpacks. As for the rest of the set pieces they can control the difficulty of acquiring them by changing the drop rates as needed. They can’t do that (at least not directly) with crafted exotics, karma Orr exotics or dungeon token exotics, which many of us have already.

So they’re giving out free Legendaries now? Honestly it’s pretty obvious that she meant “complementary.” Gear that goes with the new content. Dunno how this free ascendeds myth is spreading.

I just quoted what she wrote. If its a myth I didn’t start it

Regardless, the point I was making was that the infusions are what will drive gem sales and resource grinding, the actual gear item probably won’t matter much in the long run.

I’m going back to the OP’s post to give my answer on what I think about the ascended gear.

The purpose of the gear, mainly is so that your armor is infused so that you will be able to mitigate the damage done by Agony in the new dungeon. However, since the dungeon slowly scales over time, you will be able to progress some through the dungeon before you even need ascended gear. And the new pieces (a ring and a back item) are supposed to drop in this dungeon. Makes sense to me.

I have read some concern from people that the ascended armor will make the dungeon armor sets obsolete. But the original intent of the dungeon armor sets was for cosmetic purposes, so how does the new armor make them obsolete?

People enjoyed collecting the Mad King items from Halloween. They will have fun slowly over time collecting the Ascended pieces as they are released. The stat differences are not that great, they don’t even have runes in them so that’s why the stats on them are slightly increased. The increased stats make up for the lack of a rune slot. And the infused slot is to help mitigate agony and whatever else they think we need to get through the new dungeon.

Everyone please calm down. Wait until after Lost Shores is released and you have spent the 3 days of the event participating it and trying it out for yourself before you form opinions about how awful this is. I know people don’t like change. But this may well end up being something truly fun for GW2. You won’t know until you try it.

pregnable.1954:

It is not fact yet that this update will happen.

It is fact that this update was announced. No one with confidence has come forward to say that it was not going to be released.

pregnable.1954:

There is plenty to lose waiting to see how this comes out, that being all of our max level exotic sets and custom skins or transmutation stones we used on them.. lol…

Players who already own exotics have nothing to lose from this update. They are simply one step closer to obtaining ascended items. If players are attached to a specific skin, they can always transmute it.

We do not know as to how Anet will chose to implement these new items. There’s no way to tell as to whether or not exotics will be required as components for ascended pieces as an alternative to simply farming for new items entirely.

pregnable.1954:

It is not lost on me that you also refer to people against this change as QQers and that this was your first post ever… hmmm….

The number of posts I have made in relation to issues I have chosen to express myself on does not disqualify me from participating in these forums.

Kelvran.9047:

vox.5019:

Kelvran.9047:

The full ascended armor will be rolled out slowly, probably so that the demand for resources won’t send the markets into shock. According to Linsey Murdock, “As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended and Legendary items (to say nothing of the other rewards you can earn by playing the content).” They’re giving them away. Anet want us all to have them. At least the initial rings and backpacks. As for the rest of the set pieces they can control the difficulty of acquiring them by changing the drop rates as needed. They can’t do that (at least not directly) with crafted exotics, karma Orr exotics or dungeon token exotics, which many of us have already.

So they’re giving out free Legendaries now? Honestly it’s pretty obvious that she meant “complementary.” Gear that goes with the new content. Dunno how this free ascendeds myth is spreading.

I just quoted what she wrote. If its a myth I didn’t start it

Regardless, the point I was making was that the infusions are what will drive gem sales and resource grinding, the actual gear item probably won’t matter much in the long run.

I’m not sure about how the MF stuff will work but it is possible, I certainly wouldn’t put it past them. You are dead on about the gear tier itself though, they abstracted the treadmill away from the gear and placed it on the gear’s upgrades (even though you’ll probably need a new set for the next gate mechanic so you can keep doing the old one.)

Rpgtabbycat.5869:

I’m going back to the OP’s post to give my answer on what I think about the ascended gear.

The purpose of the gear, mainly is so that your armor is infused so that you will be able to mitigate the damage done by Agony in the new dungeon. However, since the dungeon slowly scales over time, you will be able to progress some through the dungeon before you even need ascended gear. And the new pieces (a ring and a back item) are supposed to drop in this dungeon. Makes sense to me.

I have read some concern from people that the ascended armor will make the dungeon armor sets obsolete. But the original intent of the dungeon armor sets was for cosmetic purposes, so how does the new armor make them obsolete?

People enjoyed collecting the Mad King items from Halloween. They will have fun slowly over time collecting the Ascended pieces as they are released. The stat differences are not that great, they don’t even have runes in them so that’s why the stats on them are slightly increased. The increased stats make up for the lack of a rune slot. And the infused slot is to help mitigate agony and whatever else they think we need to get through the new dungeon.

Everyone please calm down. Wait until after Lost Shores is released and you have spent the 3 days of the event participating it and trying it out for yourself before you form opinions about how awful this is. I know people don’t like change. But this may well end up being something truly fun for GW2. You won’t know until you try it.

Nah, the problem only lies with the stats on Ascended Gear better than upgraded exotics – Nothing more nothing less. Even Mad King’s items are not obviously superior to superior sigils/exotics.

Kelvran.9047:

Bingo.

This gear progression faction vs GW1 veteran faction thing looks like a smokescreen. I suspect its really about resource grinding and gem sales.

Think about it. Assume for the moment that we’ve been told the truth – with the exception that there’s now a single new top tier that will from now on be the top tier in the game rather than the exotics that were originally advertised by Anet.

The full ascended armor will be rolled out slowly, probably so that the demand for resources won’t send the markets into shock. According to Linsey Murdock, “As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended and Legendary items (to say nothing of the other rewards you can earn by playing the content).” They’re giving them away. Anet want us all to have them. At least the initial rings and backpacks. As for the rest of the set pieces they can control the difficulty of acquiring them by changing the drop rates as needed. They can’t do that (at least not directly) with crafted exotics, karma Orr exotics or dungeon token exotics, which many of us have already.

We’ve been shown one ring that’s got Magic Find, Precision and Power for stats. That’s one ring only. Surely there is one that has Vitality Toughness and Power, and one for each of all the other existing stat combinations, otherwise this entire new system would be pointless.

The socket is the real key here. Infusion stones replace things like the Superior rune of the Mesmer, which has 33% increased stun duration. Linsey has stated that these infusions will be offensive, defensive and omni, and paired with their “like slot” (whatever that means), and also that they will be crafted from the new mystic forge recipes (200 or so new recipes in this patch).

Right now no one but Anet know exactly what these Infusion stones will do, but many of the ones they replace have skills very similar to the trait skills that we pick in our skill trees. What engineer for example wouldn’t want one of these if there was one that had for example something like a weaker version of the grenadier trait? Especially if the engineer had no points in the power tree. Or a generic one that granted retaliation for 10 seconds on using an elite skill. This new gear is useable everywhere except in structured PvP, which allows Anet to say that there’s an area of the game that you can always be competitive at maximum level with no extra cash investment or grinding of any sort.

Infusion stones, created at the mystic forge, possibly requiring something like 10 mystic stones, 10 lodestones, 10 wines and a stack of dust for a high end infusion stone would create a massive demand for gems in the gem store, a small sink for gold and a huge grinding requirement for the other materials. Don’t want to grind? Buy more gems and sell them to players willing to do the grinding for double the mats required to buy the gems and fill the other recipe requirements for their own gear.

Think of how many mystic stones would be needed for a full set for everyone’s main and alts. Then when the first expansion hits the stores in a year or so, we can all do it again for the new higher level ascended armor and infusions to match the new level cap. Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLHfq2lJY5A&t=58m35s Ascended armor will still be best in slot, and legendaries will still be equivalent to best in slot. But you’ll still need to upgrade your infusions and also your new ascendeds if you haven’t done the legendary grind. Anet has been telling us the truth all along, there won’t be a GEAR grind. It’ll be a gold/resource grind.

Long run will this be good for the game? Perhaps. Only time will tell, and it’ll depend on how its implemented and how greedy Anet and/or their publisher are. I’ve done a lot of speculation here (as nearly everyone has in this thread), and I’ve probably overstated the power, impact and cost to the players. But players will pay, one way or another, and Anet will profit. How much remains to be seen. Also the extent to which it will trivialize existing pve content remains to be seen. I am hopeful but not optimistic.

Interesting take.

Also, i’d like to point this incase some people are not aware,
from the link about GameOverCast interview at EuroGamer 2011
( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLHfq2lJY5A&t=58m35s ) one can hear :

Q: “What about the level cap… ?”
A: “The level cap will be 80 on the initial release of the game and we will absolutely increase it further into the game, probably through expansions…”

One would assume, after lvl cap is increased later on through an expansion, let’s say to lvl 100 for example, new lvl 100 (“Ascended”) gear to be released aswell making lower lvl gear redundant ?
Then, there will be a gear threadmill regardless… unless there is an unconventional Lvl / gear progression implemented.

Just food for thought.

Teva.2807:

Yes, I have. I know, they are adding more ascended gear, but that isnt treadmill. It is lower class than legendary, according to arenanet, who MADE the game. That means that we dont have something higher to work to, its just something in between. She didnt say that they are adding more tiers, she said they are adding more ascended.

your post indicates that you are ignorant of where “legendary” and “exotic” items currently stand in relative power terms. they are exactly the same on the power curve-meaning they are statistically identical. ANet is bumping up (aka inflating) the “legendary” stats in order to make room for an intermediary tier of gear (called “Ascended”) between “exotics” and “legendary”. that is THE definition of power creep-a condition causal to gear grinding (aka “gear treadmill”).

Demarc.4906:

LOL. Really?

Thats your counter argument? The Dev’s know the new mobs are too tough for us in our current gear so they made a new tier of gear for us?

So instead of balancing the encounters to our gear levels and making the fights more dynamic and fun, they are adding more more gear for us to combat the increased Armor and stats (your words) on the mobs that they are adding …. thats kinda a cyclic argument no?

The improved combat was an example, not proof. The idea was not about keeping the state of the game the way it is now, with watered down enemies to compete with watered down players. It’s about uping the scale on the monsters in relation to players, who, when the time comes, may or may not be completely overwhelmed without small boosts to give them fighting chances. This is not the same as bringing players up to par with the enemies. That’s number scaling, not progress.

xelynruk.6983:

Players who already own exotics have nothing to lose from this update. They are simply one step closer to obtaining ascended items. If players are attached to a specific skin, they can always transmute it.

Players that already own multiple sets of exotics have much to lose. The same is true for those that already used transmutation stones on the gear they are wearing.

But, luckily, we won’t get ascended armor with this patch so there is still enough time for them to find a way to deal with that mess. It’s still possible that we get an easy way to turn our exotics into ascended items without spending more than a few silver.

I do not want this change to appear in the game in this form. Please don’t implement ascended gear. If you must implement agony and/or the infusion stones, do so in a cheap and easily-distributable fashion so that they contribute to customisation above and beyond that allowed by sigils/runes and give every single piece of gear an infusion slot, not just legendaries or exotics.

Also, please, never increase the stat levels on any pieces of gear regardless of tier. The gear stat levels need to remain stable throughout the life of the game. Good game design does not hinge upon gear progression. Improve the game itself. Make the dungeons you have and the ones you plan to implement require intelligent and fluid tactics, not maxed-out gear. This game is already so good, but there is so much that could be improved in the fundamentals that you don’t need to tack on this chaff to keep people playing and having fun. You do not need this.

There is a very strong possibility that I will stop playing your game because of this. I’m a guild leader and I’m not sure what my friends/members might do, but it could potentially dissolve our guild and I don’t want that because I’ve had such a great time playing with them all up till now.

Please, please don’t do this.

xelynruk.6983:

pregnable.1954:

It is not fact yet that this update will happen.

It is fact that this update was announced. No one with confidence has come forward to say that it was not.

pregnable.1954:

There is plenty to lose waiting to see how this comes out, that being all of our max level exotic sets and custom skins or transmutation stones we used on them.. lol…

Players who already own exotics have nothing to lose from this update. They are simply one step closer to obtaining ascended items. If players are attached to a specific skin, they can always transmute it.

We do not know as to how Anet will chose to implement these new items. There’s no way to tell as to whether or not exotics will be required as components for ascended pieces as an alternative to simply farming for new items entirely.

pregnable.1954:

It is not lost on me that you also refer to people against this change as QQers and that this was your first post ever… hmmm….

The number of posts I have made in relation to issues I have chosen to express myself on do not disqualify me from participating in these forums.

The update is not fact until it is out.

All transmutation stones used on items that players thought were top tier will be wasted, because they now need a new tier to have maxed armor and use more transmutation stones.

WvW uses pve gear so all sets of max level exotic gear will be trash and WvW players will have to farm new armor.

You have just as much right to post here as I do… and all of the other first time posters who are showing up for this thread…

I just noticed that the few people on here defending and calling concerns QQing have only posted in this thread… as if the account is new… and if you point that out the post is somehow deleted… hmmm…

nachtnebel.9168:

Players that already own multiple sets of exotics have much to lose. The same is true for those that already used transmutation stones on the gear they are wearing.

What exactly are players with exotics losing? They have already gained easier access to ascended level gear by having exotic pieces. There’s nothing preventing players from transmuting specific skins onto items. Hindsight is 20/20. At present, nothing is being taken from players. Do people complain to Intel when previously purchased cpu’s are outdated by newer models? Futhermore, Anet is not Intel, and they have not stated that they are pursuing absolute gear progression. Although this probably won’t be the last time they release gear updates, we still have no idea as to how they’re going to be implemented.

xelynruk.6983:

nachtnebel.9168:

Players that already own multiple sets of exotics have much to lose. The same is true for those that already used transmutation stones on the gear they are wearing.

What exactly are players with exotics losing? They have already gained easier access to ascended level gear by having exotic pieces. There’s nothing preventing players from transmuting specific skins onto items. Hindsight is 20/20. At present, nothing is being taken from players. Do people complain to Intel when previously purchased cpu’s are outdated by newer models? Anet is not Intel, and they have not stated that they are pursuing absolute gear progression. This probably won’t be the last time they release gear updates, and we still have no idea as to how they’re going to be implemented.

If Intel were to say that their new CPU was the best model, and that there would never be a better one, the people who invested in that model would be upset when a new one came out.

HM, i guess i need to point out more about the thinkings of the ascended gear for the topic.

AT first i feel excuited about the ascended gear, is it something that in a fancy means?—-that’s what i think in the first time.But after i have read some information about the ascended gear states, why those gear states was better that exotics?(even 3% more MF is better than exotic)?SRSLY?

In my understanding, Arenanet promises us GW2 is not a Grinding Gear games, is for fun and content related games but not gears. And now they broke the promises?

Yes, i feel great on my exotics gear.It doesn’t take me much time to grind it. and after that i can do much more things on GW2 rather that chasing up the gear.(WvW, map progression, JP, etc)But, after the ascended gear arrived, i need to complete again all my gears now just because the exotic is not the last tier of it.AND most of the players in GW2 don’t want to grind gears again but legendarys!

SO…Do we betrayed by anet for breaking promises on GW2.I think most of the GW2 players got the answers.

Spurious D.6173:

Vash.9183:

To all of you crying about how you think ascended gear is ruining the game- you are just angry because you have more stuff to do in-game now. You didn’t waste your time with exotics, they’ve been great for a while now… and they will stay great even longer.

They even said that ascended gear is going to be released slowly, I mean, all we’re starting with here is a back piece and a ring. Come on. I know that I wouldn’t want the game to just stay the same without any new content like this… it’s great.

Lastly, referring to this as some kind of epic grind is crazy. Just because you hear that there’s new gear, you assume that it’ll take ages to get and that this is going to be a never-ending sequence of new tiers of gear. You’re the ones making the big mistake. It’s your fault that you’re losing interest.

I wasn’t going to reply again, i think 5 or so posts is enough. But I had to comment on this. Not on all the things wrong in this post. (ie. it -will- take a grind to get, they have specifically announced that they want these to be a halfway point between exotics & legendaries. Or perhaps how the gear isn’t the gear-grind, the infusions will be); no, I need to address that last sentence.

I was not losing interest in this game at all, until i read the article. I was playing for hours a day, hundreds over the 2-3months since pre-release, and was not slowing down. I was just working up my 3rd alt to 80, and had the other two in max level gear I liked with dyes I liked. I spent hours planning on what exotic weapon skins I still wanted to aquire for them. I went to bed late (after staying up late playing) thinking of the game, I woke up thinking about it, and daydreamed all day at work about it. I’ve spent way too much time at work on gw2 sites that aren’t blocked. I’ve spent more real money on gems than I paid for the game. I was -not- losing interest.

This announcement hit me like nothing in my life. I cannot even express in words what it felt like. Some sort of terror-misery-anger? The most comparable feelings I can equate it to based on other events from my life are the time I caught my s.o. cheating and another time when I was dumped, out of the blue. This was worse, but similar. I’ve never felt so betrayed in my life, which is ridiculous, given the two examples I just mentioned. I only mention that because it helps me illustrate my deep love for the game I had been playing for about 3 months.

I am deeply offended you think my immediate and abrupt distaste for playing this game is somehow -my- personal fault. This came out of the blue in complete contradiction to every single release of official information about the game before its launch. The game was marketed with the exact opposite philosophy that is being added a matter of days from its announced arrival. That is the cause of my deep dissatisfaction.

I don’t know if the company realizes how many of us feel exactly this way. They will though, over the next couple months…

xelynruk.6983:

nachtnebel.9168:

Players that already own multiple sets of exotics have much to lose. The same is true for those that already used transmutation stones on the gear they are wearing.

What exactly are players with exotics losing? They have already gained easier access to ascended level gear by having exotic pieces. There’s nothing preventing players from transmuting specific skins onto items. Hindsight is 20/20. At present, nothing is being taken from players. Do people complain to Intel when previously purchased cpu’s are outdated by newer models? Anet is not Intel, and they have not stated that they are pursuing absolute gear progression. This probably won’t be the last time they release gear updates, and we still have no idea as to how they’re going to be implemented.

Well exotic was supposed to be the highest tier of armor stat wise.

People farmed and planned for this and used transmutations stones because they knew it would be the top tier of armor and they wanted to change its looks.

I am sure there are quite a few people who would not have used transmutations stones on exotic gear if they knew there would be another tier of gear coming out.

So, with this new tier coming out, players lose money that they paid for transmutation stones to update the armor that they thought was the best.

With this update they lose money wasted on transmutation stones.

Gilandred.9870:

Why aren’t the two gentlemen who originally declared that there would be no gear grind out front and center on this issue? Come out and take the heat; don’t send in others to do that which you should be doing….

Yeah, I’d love to see them address the fact that they gave us a very different message before. It’s like they’re trying to retcon their history.

Doom.7053:

Well, this threads being watched/read I got an infraction from an earlier comment. Seriously though, wait and see, if it is as bad as you guys fear then the game dies(eventually, even the worst games retain a loyal fan base), and if it doesn’t then great for everybody.

I’d prefer to play a game where the Dev’s have a vision and work toward it, even if that vision shifts through time, than for them to bow down to… anti-fan-bois who are usually more fanboi’ish than the defenders.

Devs with a changing – evolving vision. Yes that s what it was with ANET/GW2 so far but this update is basically the complete contradiction of what was said many times over the course of 5 years and iterated from GW1. No gear progression past the maximum and no grind is one of the core pillars of the game.
You take that away and who knows where you ll end up…. but wait, we do know where.
This is not something that hasnt happened before. This isnt something new, unknown. This has been going on in countless MMOs in the past 8 years. The results were always the same:

A hardcore group hits maximum level, gets the best gear, grinds out the toughest dungeons and then demands more.
The devs add a new dungeon, new tougher mobs and new gear all with better stats.
These people again finish it all get it all and demand more.
Eventually the game gets stale and those people leave.
The developer is now left with only a portion of their playerbase because with all this catering to the hardcore they alienated their core audience targeted by the original vision of the game. The game is most likely not sustainable anymore and it dies and with it the developer.

I and many others do not want this to happen to GW2/ANET. That s why we are so vocal about it. The damage has already been done however. Trust and reputation is something very hard to get and easy to loose and they will have to work hard to get them back.

xelynruk.6983:

nachtnebel.9168:

Players that already own multiple sets of exotics have much to lose. The same is true for those that already used transmutation stones on the gear they are wearing.

What exactly are players with exotics losing? They have already gained easier access to ascended level gear by having exotic pieces. There’s nothing preventing players from transmuting specific skins onto items. Hindsight is 20/20. At present, nothing is being taken from players. Do people complain to Intel when previously purchased cpu’s are outdated by newer models? Futhermore, Anet is not Intel, and they have not stated that they are pursuing absolute gear progression. Although this probably won’t be the last time they release gear updates, we still have no idea as to how they’re going to be implemented.

Arena Net stated that exotics would be the highest tier in game, once you have them, you won’t need any more items. This statement was not limited in time.
And yes, players lost a lot. E.g. 130g for T3 cultural armor, tokens worth 23 dungeons runs for dungeon armor, 42k karma for each piece of karma armor, a lot of gold and ingredients for crafted armor and whatever they used to get those transmutation stones to get the skins they wanted. I know a lot of players that wouldn’t have gotten their second, third or forth set of exotics if they knew that ascended gear was about to come. They just would have saved all their gold, karma, tokens and ingredients. And they most definitively won’t have wasted real money to purchase transmutation stones just to change the skin of some temporary gear. That never was the deal.

IMO, ANet can make 90% of the people in this thread happy with two relatively simple changes:

1. Make Ascended base stats equal to those of Exotics.
2. Make a toggle for whether Agony (and the subsequent loot bonuses) affects your group. This could be a party vote, similar to exp. paths today.

These two changes make excellent compromises for both the crowd that does not want stat inflation and the crowd that wants gear progression.

Anti stat inflation: Ascended gear remains equal in power to current Exotics. New dungeon content is available with Agony turned off to allow for casual runs with limited loot-potential (read: current dungeon reward level). All content is available to this group without invalidating previous gearing efforts or introducing power creep through stats.

Gear progression: Ascended gear grows in power (for dungeons) through infusions, providing continued gear progression. More difficult dungeons (as far as Agony inflates difficulty) provide better loot rewards. This group gets a progressive, and potentially competitive, PvE mode.

if you think about it they’ve actually added 2 new tiers of gear with one update: Ascended and Legendary

just 3 months into the game! and i thought SWTOR was introducing power creep far too early in that game!!

pregnable.1954:

All transmutation stones used on items that players thought were top tier will be wasted, because they now need a new tier to have maxed armor and use more transmutation stones.

It’s doubtful that most players would feel those transmutation stones were wasted at the time in which they were consumed. Those transmutation stones cannot be recovered; so, why waste the effort thinking about them.

pregnable.1954:

WvW uses pve gear so all sets of max level exotic gear will be trash and WvW players will have to farm new armor.

WvW players will simply be in the same boat that other pve players in that they have better chances than those with non-exotic sets to gain new armor.

pregnable.1954:

I just noticed that the few people on here defending and calling concerns QQing have only posted in this thread… as if the account is new… and if you point that out the post is somehow deleted… hmmm…

Seems like your posts are still there.