Guild Wars 2

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill.

thats why we decided to create a gear treadmill.

its ambiguos only to those who wants to belienve they didn t what they did….

There are data and facts and they are crystal clear…..

The only chance those were misunderstood is if anet wanted explicitly us to misunderstand them piloting information given…..

No other chance.

Urxx.6840:

Shilian.5873:

Guys you forgot something essential:

The gap between exo/ascen is MINIMAL, so not a MUST for WvW or anything, just for the new dungeon, and guess what? you will get the gear while progressing trough it.

Too much fap guys, no reason to go mad.

This is a common misconception. The STAT gap is minimal. The exotic item’s impossibility to have infusions and counter agony is huge. The new dungeon is the only place where agony is incflicted FOR NOW, but things will change.

They haven’t developed a whole new system to use it only in the fractals. We’ll see agony in many upcoming patches.

I disagree, 8% is substantial increase in my eyes.
But I do agree that lack of Infusion slot on Exotic – or any other type of gear for that matter – makes the gap between Ascended and Exotic even higher, especially with time as more gear, more tiers and – probably – more Agony will be added.

Its funny that most people people where complaining and upset that Legendary weapons had the same stats that the exotics have and that the Legendary weapons are only a cosmetic change. Well, Anet listened and now they are finally making Legendary weapons the way they should have been in the first place. Legendary weapons are suppose to be the most powerful items in the game. Not some re-skinned exotic weapons. I applaud Anet for this! With the introduction to Ascended items it puts the Exotics lower on the totem pole where they belong. Underneath Ascended/Legendary items. All these guys that are saying they are going to stop playing will still be playing the game it may not be this month or the next but I bet my bottom gold piece if you track those that said they are going to be quitting they will still be around. So, stop your belly aching and enjoy the new content.

Sdric.8526:

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill.

thats why we decided to create a gear treadmill.

Haha, that’s so funny – never thought of it as explicitly as that – but it makes sense!

Baron Von Graymouse.7801:

Its funny that most people people where complaining and upset that Legendary weapons had the same stats that the exotics have and that the Legendary weapons are only a cosmetic change. Well, Anet listened and now they are finally making Legendary weapons the way they should have been in the first place. Legendary weapons are suppose to be the most powerful items in the game. Not some re-skinned exotic weapons. I applaud Anet for this! With the introduction to Ascended items it puts the Exotics lower on the totem pole where they belong. Underneath Ascended/Legendary items. All these guys that are saying they are going to stop playing will still be playing the game it may not be this month or the next but I bet my bottom gold piece if you track those that said they are going to be quitting they will still be around. So, stop your belly aching and enjoy the new content.

In before people complain that legendaries have the same stats than Ascended.

Rhyaehar.9504:

Urxx.6840:

Shilian.5873:

Guys you forgot something essential:

The gap between exo/ascen is MINIMAL, so not a MUST for WvW or anything, just for the new dungeon, and guess what? you will get the gear while progressing trough it.

Too much fap guys, no reason to go mad.

This is a common misconception. The STAT gap is minimal. The exotic item’s impossibility to have infusions and counter agony is huge. The new dungeon is the only place where agony is incflicted FOR NOW, but things will change.

They haven’t developed a whole new system to use it only in the fractals. We’ll see agony in many upcoming patches.

I disagree, 8% is substantial increase in my eyes.
But I do agree that lack of Infusion slot on Exotic – or any other type of gear for that matter – makes the gap between Ascended and Exotic even higher, especially with time as more gear, more tiers and – probably – more Agony will be added.

They will be adding more agony indeed if they continue.

well gw1 in 7 years introduced crazy amount of new content. And everyone was happy with the same quality of the new rewards.
Also must be noticed that in gw1, you are significantly rewarded for doing something even ONCE.
Here, 99% of rewards for most “balanced in terms of difficulty” dungeons (not a single run even, i must notice, but tens of them) are vendor trash or TOKENS. that you need in amounts of thousands.

Flynch.6034:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

impossible to argue with 99% of misinformed people… I guess this really bad communication on Anets side about this costs them quite a few customers.

Posters who are trying to explain the system just drown here. I admit, I didn’t get it first either. Bad communication. Anet, just respond to the people.

Pretty much 100% this.

Anet need to release some details that are concrete and this thread can be put to sleep. Currently there are thousands of players commenting on something that they think will happen.

And that’s fair enough, as the details are far from refined. It’s very easy to read the blogs and then see what you want to see. It’s too ambiguous and frankly Anet need to sort it out. The forums are not a nice place to be at the moment.

How much more can they spell it out? They showed us gear progression items, they talked about the future changes. They talked about PVE gating via Infusions. What am I missing here? I see a lot of informed people who care about their game discussing it and not liking the direction it is going in.

I can tell you one thing – the amount of outcry shows ANET just how passionate their community is about the game and how they want it to thrive. This is a big misstep on their part if it goes live – a lot of voices will be silenced and when anger turns to resentment to disinterest then ANET will have a lot to worry about.

Baron Von Graymouse.7801:

Its funny that most people people where complaining and upset that Legendary weapons had the same stats that the exotics have and that the Legendary weapons are only a cosmetic change. Well, Anet listened and now they are finally making Legendary weapons the way they should have been in the first place. Legendary weapons are suppose to be the most powerful items in the game. Not some re-skinned exotic weapons. I applaud Anet for this! With the introduction to Ascended items it puts the Exotics lower on the totem pole where they belong. Underneath Ascended/Legendary items. All these guys that are saying they are going to stop playing will still be playing the game it may not be this month or the next but I bet my bottom gold piece if you track those that said they are going to be quitting they will still be around. So, stop your belly aching and enjoy the new content.

I think you’re very wrong. Like another poster funnily stated there are 522 MMOs that cater to people like yourself … this one GW2 was not supposed to be like that ;-)

Baron Von Graymouse.7801:

Its funny that most people people where complaining and upset that Legendary weapons had the same stats that the exotics have and that the Legendary weapons are only a cosmetic change. Well, Anet listened and now they are finally making Legendary weapons the way they should have been in the first place. Legendary weapons are suppose to be the most powerful items in the game. Not some re-skinned exotic weapons. I applaud Anet for this! With the introduction to Ascended items it puts the Exotics lower on the totem pole where they belong. Underneath Ascended/Legendary items. All these guys that are saying they are going to stop playing will still be playing the game it may not be this month or the next but I bet my bottom gold piece if you track those that said they are going to be quitting they will still be around. So, stop your belly aching and enjoy the new content.

You know that this isnt wow? you know the manifesto? so whar you are writing now, is without sense

Baron Von Graymouse.7801:

Its funny that most people people where complaining and upset that Legendary weapons had the same stats that the exotics have and that the Legendary weapons are only a cosmetic change. Well, Anet listened and now they are finally making Legendary weapons the way they should have been in the first place. Legendary weapons are suppose to be the most powerful items in the game. Not some re-skinned exotic weapons. I applaud Anet for this! With the introduction to Ascended items it puts the Exotics lower on the totem pole where they belong. Underneath Ascended/Legendary items. All these guys that are saying they are going to stop playing will still be playing the game it may not be this month or the next but I bet my bottom gold piece if you track those that said they are going to be quitting they will still be around. So, stop your belly aching and enjoy the new content.

Where in any information that ANet had previously released did they say that Legendaries were supposed to be more powerful? They stated quite the opposite numerous times. They were supposed to be prestige items. Like every other carrot in GW and the other carrots they said we would be chasing in GW2.

Not that the point is relevant at all as they’re still not the most powerful thing in the game, they’ll still be on par with every other Ascended weapon.

Flynch.6034:

Anet need to release some details that are concrete and this thread can be put to sleep. Currently there are thousands of players commenting on something that they think will happen.

And that’s fair enough, as the details are far from refined. It’s very easy to read the blogs and then see what you want to see. It’s too ambiguous and frankly Anet need to sort it out. The forums are not a nice place to be at the moment.

I think they explained it pretty well.

FACT: Exotic gear won’t have infusion slots.
FACT: infusions are needed to counter agony and other conditions that will be introduced later.
FACT: in order to apply infusions to your gear, you need it to have infusion slots.
FACT: In many interviews ANet has stated that a player couldn’t acquire gear that was more powerful than exotics, at most better looking gear which had the same stats (legendaries).

So what exactly should ANet explain better?

What we need is not more explanation, but rather a statement from them saying: “we have listened to our community feedback and are removing ascended gear from the game. All existing lvl 80 exotic gear will receive an infusion slot.”

Baron Von Graymouse.7801:

Its funny that most people people where complaining and upset that Legendary weapons had the same stats that the exotics have and that the Legendary weapons are only a cosmetic change. Well, Anet listened and now they are finally making Legendary weapons the way they should have been in the first place. Legendary weapons are suppose to be the most powerful items in the game. Not some re-skinned exotic weapons. I applaud Anet for this! With the introduction to Ascended items it puts the Exotics lower on the totem pole where they belong. Underneath Ascended/Legendary items. All these guys that are saying they are going to stop playing will still be playing the game it may not be this month or the next but I bet my bottom gold piece if you track those that said they are going to be quitting they will still be around. So, stop your belly aching and enjoy the new content.

You know what is funny?
Legendaries will have exactly the same stats as Ascended items.
So they will not be “the most powerful items in game”.

Legendaries were never meant by Devs to be the most powerful weapons in game, but the most notirious, hard to get and sought for in terms of prestige. But not stats. And that won’t change.

People like you bought a game because it wa “hot” without researching what the principles of it are, discovered they are not like “the only right principles of Wow” and managed to shatter the best design part of GW2 and make it just like all the other games on the market.
But guess what, in 2 weeks you’ll have your Ascended and exactly as little to do as you have now. And Legendaries will still have the same stats as other, also regular, type of gear (yeah, Ascended will be the new Exotic, nothing more). You gained absolutely nothing.

Urxx.6840:

Flynch.6034:

Anet need to release some details that are concrete and this thread can be put to sleep. Currently there are thousands of players commenting on something that they think will happen.

And that’s fair enough, as the details are far from refined. It’s very easy to read the blogs and then see what you want to see. It’s too ambiguous and frankly Anet need to sort it out. The forums are not a nice place to be at the moment.

I think they explained it pretty well.

FACT: Exotic gear won’t have infusion slots.
FACT: infusions are needed to counter agony and other conditions that will be introduced later.
FACT: in order to apply infusions to your gear, you need it to have infusion slots.
FACT: In many interviews ANet has stated that a player couldn’t acquire gear that was more powerful than exotics, at most better looking gear which had the same stats (legendaries).

So what exactly should ANet explain better?

What we need is not more explanation, but rather a statement from them saying: “we have listened to our community feedback and are removing ascended gear from the game. All existing lvl 80 exotic gear will receive an infusion slot.”

Simple as that!

I cant see them retracting it all…thats alot of PR money, video production, programming…millions they would have to swallow with nothing to show for it except forum posts. Im not being negative, I just can not see them doing that from a business standpoint. They made a decision based on numbers, they are going to move forward with it.

It’s desapointig to see so much content pushed into live wile live still feels like beta… There is mo much stuff to fix, new content should NOT be a priority at this moment.

Fix the game, bring it out of beta, then develope new content…

Normaly new content comes with new bugs and I think we all agree the we have more bugs then we can handle atm we don’t need more…

manifesto hahahahahahah. You guys are funny. Anyways, whether or not, I am right or wrong it doesn’t matter. What matters is that Anet will introduce this into the game and if they loose a portion of their player base so be it. Believe me, there are more same minded people like me who will gladly fill in the empty spots that you rage quitters will cause. The game is suppose to dynamic and this is about a dynamic as you can get.

I feel that I’ve been lied to as others. I understand upgrading gear in exapansions of any sort, but this game is too young. It has so many problems from technical side (bugs, invisible armies in WvW, not working DEs, some exploits, different issues with sPvP/tPvP, etc.) and now, the update which makes the community full of rage.

I don’t think that ANet really reads through all of the feedback, because it’s really clear, that something is wrong with the new gear. If it wasn’t, there would only be possitive posts here, but it’s quite the other way around.

I know it may be too soon to speculate if it’s a really bad move, because we don’t know how ANet wants to deal with it. Nevertheless, every game is nothing without it’s players. Just a simple husk without it’s core.

Hope you won’t destroy your game and good luck, ANet.

" Legendary weapons are suppose to be the most powerful items in the game. Not some re-skinned exotic weapons. I applaud Anet for this! With the introduction to Ascended items it puts the Exotics lower on the totem pole where they belong. Underneath Ascended/Legendary items. All these guys that are saying they are going to stop playing will still be playing the game it may not be this month or the next but I bet my bottom gold piece if you track those that said they are going to be quitting they will still be around. So, stop your belly aching and enjoy the new content."

You might be right, then again, you might also be wrong. I’ll probably stick around this update, but I’ve already started spending more time away and less time careing for this game since the looming threat of it dying on the 16th zapped all my will to play, and started looking for another, better, more promising MMO then one that lies to me. I’m pretty sure most peopel will slowly start leaving past the 16th if what we think will happen will happen.

On a side note : You statement that legendaries should be above exotics is moronic. ANet stated they wouldn’t be, thusly, either you mislead your self or were mislead.

Ditton.3149:

I cant see them retracting it all…thats alot of PR money, video production, programming…millions they would have to swallow with nothing to show for it except forum posts. Im not being negative, I just can not see them doing that from a business standpoint. They made a decision based on numbers, they are going to move forward with it.

No one is asking them to retract the patch – let Lost Shores go live – there is tons of great content there that people are excited about. Change the Ascended gear to either a) be out of the game entirely & add another way to get infusions or b) make them the same stats as Exotic Gear

Lothair.8942:

Flynch.6034:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

impossible to argue with 99% of misinformed people… I guess this really bad communication on Anets side about this costs them quite a few customers.

Posters who are trying to explain the system just drown here. I admit, I didn’t get it first either. Bad communication. Anet, just respond to the people.

Pretty much 100% this.

Anet need to release some details that are concrete and this thread can be put to sleep. Currently there are thousands of players commenting on something that they think will happen.

And that’s fair enough, as the details are far from refined. It’s very easy to read the blogs and then see what you want to see. It’s too ambiguous and frankly Anet need to sort it out. The forums are not a nice place to be at the moment.

How much more can they spell it out? They showed us gear progression items, they talked about the future changes. They talked about PVE gating via Infusions. What am I missing here? I see a lot of informed people who care about their game discussing it and not liking the direction it is going in.

I can tell you one thing – the amount of outcry shows ANET just how passionate their community is about the game and how they want it to thrive. This is a big misstep on their part if it goes live – a lot of voices will be silenced and when anger turns to resentment to disinterest then ANET will have a lot to worry about.

Here is what we know, give or take:

New Agony system for a new dungeon.

New gear that is being released in bundles over time that has a slot designed for use in the dungeon (offensive, defensive and omni).

Current image showing a comparison with exotic, Ascended ring has more stats than Exotic with upgrade.

Legendary weapons will be boosted to remain BIS

New content will be released over time.

Ascended gear can be gained through a multitude of ways.

It will not affect sPvP as standard.

What we don’t know, give or take:

How Agony works – does it stand to stop players in their tracks after a certain point, or is it a diminishing mechanic that allows players to enjoy the dungeon and then get to a point where Agony resist is absolutely crucial. Is it gating or is it a soft-cap.

How much of a grind is the new armour to get.

Are there new recipes for upgrades that can be applied to Exotics to bring them up to the same stat-standard as the Ascended gear. Also helps crafting.

Will further dungeons use this Agony mechanic (keeping Ascended gear relative) or will they use a new mechanic that needs new gear.

I have probably forgotten some things but this is the gist of the situation in my opinion

chronus.1326:

Egger.2935:

That’s enough for me..

That is a problem because there was never any statical difference between Legendary and Exotic.

They are creating it right now.

The entire gap never existed and if they would have had a true horizonal progression with only cosmetic differences then we wouldn’t even be talking about this.

Then there wouldn’t even be “tiers” and this entire thing wouldn’t even be possible.

There should have been one, i think Anet realized this mistake. Given this thread alone, not to mention across other sites, they’ve introduction a stat increase that people will automatically assume is the standard moving forward, which isn’t the case. I’m actually sorry to see this hyperbole to what it is now, but understand the change. GW1 introduced differences in stat stacking along with insignias, this isn’t a new thing to the franchise. They’ve also patched in new rune sets with the Mad King, which is a slightly more powerful bleed set. They, i’m sure will introduce more controversial stuff and people will be upset over it, it’s pretty much the norm for MMO’s. What bothers me more is that the community has taken the form of an online riot over a change that will soon be forgotten and in most cases accepted.

Nethril.7413:

^^^ It’s simple guys. Guild Wars 1 set a precedence. They claimed Guild Wars 2 would uphold it. I came to this game because it would NOT have the gear treadmill that WoW and soo many others have. This is a direct violation of the precedence AND promises set forth by ANet and the Guild Wars series.

I don’t see why anyone can argue for it? You obviously didn’t read about the game before you bought it if you believe this is acceptable. By saying you are okay with this new tier of gear, you are saying it’s okay for ANet to lie. What’s next? Guilds of Warcraft with 25 man raids, gear score, add-ons, a mini-pet pokemon game, built in farmville?

I am trying to find a solution. The promise is broken anyway now. The goal must be now to keep the gear treadmill away form the other players. A complte separation of the modes PvE and Fractals of the Mists would be the only solution. The fractals should be treated as a separate universe like The Mists for sPvP. There should be no connection gear-wise/stat-wise to the traditional PvE. The Fractals of the Mist should offer nothing what the traditional PvE not also offers with respect to rewards. They should also introduce an upscaling to 80 in the fractals. The only goal in this area should be the item progression. In this way we would have the virus “gear progression” under quarantine. The virus will never infect other areas anymore. Arenanet could keep the progression gamer and the core gamer at the same time with no conflicts.

I think that we need to see first this changes. But in this moment, i am agree with these.

Ditton.3149:

I cant see them retracting it all…thats alot of PR money, video production, programming…millions they would have to swallow with nothing to show for it except forum posts. Im not being negative, I just can not see them doing that from a business standpoint. They made a decision based on numbers, they are going to move forward with it.

They don’t need (nor I expect them) to trash the whole agony-infusion thing, which is where most of the programming went.

They just have to open up infusions to exotic gear. The skin they developed for the new ascended gear can still be used for new exotics.

And anyway, a company that isn’t willing to trash some work to keep their customers isn’t going very far.

Rhyaehar.9504:

Baron Von Graymouse.7801:

Its funny that most people people where complaining and upset that Legendary weapons had the same stats that the exotics have and that the Legendary weapons are only a cosmetic change. Well, Anet listened and now they are finally making Legendary weapons the way they should have been in the first place. Legendary weapons are suppose to be the most powerful items in the game. Not some re-skinned exotic weapons. I applaud Anet for this! With the introduction to Ascended items it puts the Exotics lower on the totem pole where they belong. Underneath Ascended/Legendary items. All these guys that are saying they are going to stop playing will still be playing the game it may not be this month or the next but I bet my bottom gold piece if you track those that said they are going to be quitting they will still be around. So, stop your belly aching and enjoy the new content.

You know what is funny?
Legendaries will have exactly the same stats as Ascended items.
So they will not be “the most powerful items in game”.

Legendaries were never meant by Devs to be the most powerful weapons in game, but the most notirious, hard to get and sought for in terms of prestige. But not stats. And that won’t change.

People like you bought a game because it wa “hot” without researching what the principles of it are, discovered they are not like “the only right principles of Wow” and managed to shatter the best design part of GW2 and make it just like all the other games on the market.
But guess what, in 2 weeks you’ll have your Ascended and exactly as little to do as you have now. And Legendaries will still have the same stats as other, also regular, type of gear (yeah, Ascended will be the new Exotic, nothing more). You gained absolutely nothing.

Assuming stuff will get you into more trouble then you know what to do with. Please do not put words into my mouth. Thank you.

Sdric.8526:

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill.

thats why we decided to create a gear treadmill.

Yea I love how they say they don’t want a treadmill and in the very next sentence he says they are going to just keep adding all the other ascended items. It is pretty clear that this guy has no idea what a gear treadmill is apparently. He needs to do more research.

Putting in items with better stats and a new mechanic that is needed to complete content means that players will NEED to have this new gear. This is the exact definition of a gear treadmill.

They should just put in some armor with more particle effects or something if they wanted to put some halfway point between exotic and legendary. Legendaries are purely cosmetic upgrades right now so any tier between exotic and legendary should solely be cosmetic.

IonicBlaze.7948:

Urxx.6840:

Flynch.6034:

Anet need to release some details that are concrete and this thread can be put to sleep. Currently there are thousands of players commenting on something that they think will happen.

And that’s fair enough, as the details are far from refined. It’s very easy to read the blogs and then see what you want to see. It’s too ambiguous and frankly Anet need to sort it out. The forums are not a nice place to be at the moment.

I think they explained it pretty well.

FACT: Exotic gear won’t have infusion slots.
FACT: infusions are needed to counter agony and other conditions that will be introduced later.
FACT: in order to apply infusions to your gear, you need it to have infusion slots.
FACT: In many interviews ANet has stated that a player couldn’t acquire gear that was more powerful than exotics, at most better looking gear which had the same stats (legendaries).

So what exactly should ANet explain better?

What we need is not more explanation, but rather a statement from them saying: “we have listened to our community feedback and are removing ascended gear from the game. All existing lvl 80 exotic gear will receive an infusion slot.”

Simple as that!

Agree!
They should make this agony a PvP stat, or implent it MUCH later.
A focus on fixing bugs so you can always enter enter a instance or FINALY introduce RAIDS!

I think that we need to see first this changes. Actually i am agree with them

Our Studio Design Director Chris Whiteside just posted this:
“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.
Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.
Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.
Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores."
Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

Baron Von Graymouse.7801:

All these guys that are saying they are going to stop playing will still be playing the game it may not be this month or the next but I bet my bottom gold piece if you track those that said they are going to be quitting they will still be around. So, stop your belly aching and enjoy the new content.

This game was always sold on the premise of horizontal progression, i have only ever played treadmill hamster driven games in the past and GW2 was a refreshing change.

Your right hardly anyone in this thread will quit, but by alienating their key demographic and previous loyal customer base, gems sales will fall for real cash, thus ANET profits will drop and less development will happen.

Fact is the hardcore raider type person tend to have more gold (due to the hours upon hours of play time) and will just buy their GEMS for gold thus bring nothing into ANET to develop the game. ANETs key demographic are the people who buy GEMS with cash (the casual player if you will), these people tend to be people with disposable income, and these people don’t play the game for 40 hours a week because they have jobs and families etc.

ANET cannot compete with WoW, RIFT etc in the PvE grinding treadmill, its a recipe for disaster, look at SWTOR. If ANET wants to be successful they should stick to what made their previous GW1 fan base fiercely loyal, and build upon this with innovative mechanics, artificial intelligence, and engaging content.

BTW, i have never played GW1. ex EvE, WoW, SWTOR, AoC, WAR player.. who got all grinded out.

Rhyaehar.9504:

Urxx.6840:

Shilian.5873:

Guys you forgot something essential:

The gap between exo/ascen is MINIMAL, so not a MUST for WvW or anything, just for the new dungeon, and guess what? you will get the gear while progressing trough it.

Too much fap guys, no reason to go mad.

This is a common misconception. The STAT gap is minimal. The exotic item’s impossibility to have infusions and counter agony is huge. The new dungeon is the only place where agony is incflicted FOR NOW, but things will change.

They haven’t developed a whole new system to use it only in the fractals. We’ll see agony in many upcoming patches.

I disagree, 8% is substantial increase in my eyes.
But I do agree that lack of Infusion slot on Exotic – or any other type of gear for that matter – makes the gap between Ascended and Exotic even higher, especially with time as more gear, more tiers and – probably – more Agony will be added.

Ok but why worrying about something we don’t know yet? I personally don’t see any reason to care about agony gear if not for that specific dungeon, if the agony would decrease condition damage in pvp, ill be mad myself, but for now is just related to that specific dungeon, let’s see how it goes.

about 8%, i dunno, what’s the % gap between rare and exotic?

but yeah probably if they just remove that +8% from ascended gear everyone will be happy.

munkiman.3068:

chronus.1326:

Egger.2935:

That’s enough for me..

That is a problem because there was never any statical difference between Legendary and Exotic.

They are creating it right now.

The entire gap never existed and if they would have had a true horizonal progression with only cosmetic differences then we wouldn’t even be talking about this.

Then there wouldn’t even be “tiers” and this entire thing wouldn’t even be possible.

There should have been one, i think Anet realized this mistake. Given this thread alone, not to mention across other sites, they’ve introduction a stat increase that people will automatically assume is the standard moving forward, which isn’t the case. I’m actually sorry to see this hyperbole to what it is now, but understand the change. GW1 introduced differences in stat stacking along with insignias, this isn’t a new thing to the franchise. They’ve also patched in new rune sets with the Mad King, which is a slightly more powerful bleed set. They, i’m sure will introduce more controversial stuff and people will be upset over it, it’s pretty much the norm for MMO’s. What bothers me more is that the community has taken the form of an online riot over a change that will soon be forgotten and in most cases accepted.

I couldn’t have said it better! Thank you for articulating my thoughts exactly.

Belenwyn.8674:

Nethril.7413:

^^^ It’s simple guys. Guild Wars 1 set a precedence. They claimed Guild Wars 2 would uphold it. I came to this game because it would NOT have the gear treadmill that WoW and soo many others have. This is a direct violation of the precedence AND promises set forth by ANet and the Guild Wars series.

I don’t see why anyone can argue for it? You obviously didn’t read about the game before you bought it if you believe this is acceptable. By saying you are okay with this new tier of gear, you are saying it’s okay for ANet to lie. What’s next? Guilds of Warcraft with 25 man raids, gear score, add-ons, a mini-pet pokemon game, built in farmville?

I am trying to find a solution. The promise is broken anyway now. The goal must be now to keep the gear treadmill away form the other players. A complte separation of the modes PvE and Fractals of the Mists would be the only solution. The fractals should be treated as a separate universe like The Mists for sPvP. There should be no connection gear-wise/stat-wise to the traditional PvE. The Fractals of the Mist should offer nothing what the traditional PvE not also offers with respect to rewards. They should also introduce an upscaling to 80 in the fractals. The only goal in this area should be the item progression. In this way we would have the virus “gear progression” under quarantine. The virus will never infect other areas anymore. Arenanet could keep the progression gamer and the core gamer at the same time with no conflicts.

The problem with that is it will exclude people at some point due to it being gated. The only real solution is to do away with the infusion slots and add a quest line to get your current armor infused.

Malevil.2104:

Shilian.5873:

Guys you forgot something essential:

The gap between exo/ascen is MINIMAL, so not a MUST for WvW or anything, just for the new dungeon, and guess what? you will get the gear while progressing trough it.

Too much fap guys, no reason to go mad.

I dont consider 8% difference minimal , its quite enough to be difference in small scale fight in WsW.

Agreed. That 8% difference was extrapolated off one piece of gear, the difference will likely be greater on chest, legs and weapons. 8-10% more vitality, power and crit damage is significant and will make a difference in WvWvW.

Lothair.8942:

Ditton.3149:

I cant see them retracting it all…thats alot of PR money, video production, programming…millions they would have to swallow with nothing to show for it except forum posts. Im not being negative, I just can not see them doing that from a business standpoint. They made a decision based on numbers, they are going to move forward with it.

No one is asking them to retract the patch – let Lost Shores go live – there is tons of great content there that people are excited about. Change the Ascended gear to either a) be out of the game entirely & add another way to get infusions or b) make them the same stats as Exotic Gear

Yeah…the entire dungeon is already made..that would mean major overhaul, extended time, more paid hours into the same project etc. Taking out the infusion means taking out Agony, Agony is already a built in set piece to the dungeon which would require alot of work to remove or like you said changing their stats..all of the above requires more time and effort in a project they thought they finished. Id be absolutely amazed if it changed in anyway, its just too late.

IonicBlaze.7948:

Urxx.6840:

Flynch.6034:

Anet need to release some details that are concrete and this thread can be put to sleep. Currently there are thousands of players commenting on something that they think will happen.

And that’s fair enough, as the details are far from refined. It’s very easy to read the blogs and then see what you want to see. It’s too ambiguous and frankly Anet need to sort it out. The forums are not a nice place to be at the moment.

I think they explained it pretty well.

FACT: Exotic gear won’t have infusion slots.
FACT: infusions are needed to counter agony and other conditions that will be introduced later.
FACT: in order to apply infusions to your gear, you need it to have infusion slots.
FACT: In many interviews ANet has stated that a player couldn’t acquire gear that was more powerful than exotics, at most better looking gear which had the same stats (legendaries).

So what exactly should ANet explain better?

What we need is not more explanation, but rather a statement from them saying: “we have listened to our community feedback and are removing ascended gear from the game. All existing lvl 80 exotic gear will receive an infusion slot.”

Simple as that!

This. 100x this. Give this man a medal. All you need to do is add an infusion slot to existing Exotic gear, make the planned Ascended gear into new dungeon exotic gear, and youre done!

From what I understand legendaries are on par with exotics. Theres no need to change that! We are OK with a unique skin, thats the whole idea of the game! Why distance legendary from Exotic when you say theres no reward for obtaining a super rare item, other than cosmetic!

Please for the love of god make this simple change…infusion slots to exotics and remove ascended.

If this goes live, I’ll just go back to playing Rift – they just released a new expansion, and if I feel like doing some gear tread milling I’ll do it in a game that does it well. The biggest selling factor on this game (imo) was the complete balance of power at end-game!! This is what GW is about.

This is a huge mistake by a-net and I hope they realize it before it goes live.

Urxx.6840:

Ditton.3149:

I cant see them retracting it all…thats alot of PR money, video production, programming…millions they would have to swallow with nothing to show for it except forum posts. Im not being negative, I just can not see them doing that from a business standpoint. They made a decision based on numbers, they are going to move forward with it.

They don’t need (nor I expect them) to trash the whole agony-infusion thing, which is where most of the programming went.

They just have to open up infusions to exotic gear. The skin they developed for the new ascended gear can still be used for new exotics.

And anyway, a company that isn’t willing to trash some work to keep their customers isn’t going very far.

eh..name me a company that changed its patch 2 days before the release based on public outcry. Im serious, if you can Id love to look at their games.

While I doubt any dev will ever read this among this pile of nerd rage I would like to address the topic at hand and hopefully give an understanding of the current concerns. I understand that there is very little information in regards to these worries (something I wish my fellow Tyrians would take into account) and that these concerns may be completely unfounded (and I hope they are). But I still feel it is important to share your views (In a polite manner hint hint other posters) otherwise there is no chance anyone will know you have them. Anyway, on with the post:

I do have very positive things to say in regards to what I have so far heard about Ascended gear. The idea being able to get further in a dungeon as you earn it sounds great, it really does! Doing the same 3 paths over and over can get a bit tedious (though I find doing with friends makes it great fun even if it is the same thing over and over but that’s off the point :P )and the idea that the dungeon evolves as you get better at it and earn gear sounds like it can make “farming” for the tokens into a fun evolving event. And until Linsey Murdock’s blog post and Chris Whiteside’s statement I thought that’s all it would be.

I think Lindsey & Chris had every intention of elevating the clear concern (and quite frankly panic) that had arisen from the community and to get us exited for the update (which I still am). Unfortunately, in regards to me at least, it had the opposite effect. I’m going to focus on part of the blog post that, if I’m honest, made my heart sink.

“Legendary items were always intended to be on par with other “best-in-slot” items. So fear not, all existing Legendary weapons, which are currently on par with Exotics, will be upgraded to be on par with Ascended weapons at the same time that we add Ascended weapons to the game.” – Linsey Murdock

That, as I read it, is clarification that the stats on these items are better. They are not better in certain dungeons, they are not a trade of where they are better in one circumstance while exotics are better in another, they are just better. That means that if I find my self in a one on one with an equally skilled player in WvWvW (I often do face one on one in jumping puzzles) who has this armour then they have an advantage and I have to get these stats to make it even. Even if I worked for ages to get Mjolnir (as I want too) I would still be at a disadvantage. To me that means I am going to have to get this tier of armour and weapons. I’m not going to get it for fun, or because it looks awesome (though it may do), I am going to have to get it to not lose an advantage and that is where you start to turn it into grinding in my opinion.

The next worry came from Chris’s post stating it was felt there was too large a gap between exotic and legendary and it was seen that a new tier could help rectify this. Personally I though their wasn’t enough of a gap and though they should be something gained over a period of 6 months or so by getting special items from completing monthlies, giving them a rare (maybe even legendary) quality and making them a sign of/ and reward to someone who has been dedicated to gw2 for a while. But hey, that’s just me. But even if we accept that we do need another tier I do not understand why this tier needed a stat increase and couldn’t have just been a special tier for named exotics like The Crossing and Mjolnir or just the new Ascended armour with equal stats to upgraded exotics plus the Infusion slots. I can’t really formulate a good explanation to what I mean here as I am unable to understand why a stat increase is being added. Maybe I’m missing something but I’m afraid I just can’t get my head around it.

My final concern from Chris’s post is on the idea of a gear treadmill. While I was relieved to hear that there is not going to be a new tier every 3 months, he did say that these items for this tier would be slowly released over time. Maybe I am being overly worried but the idea of higher stat gear being slowly released (I assume being released by item type) is exactly what a gear treadmill is. Releasing advantageous items periodically so that we will constantly have to work towards them each time they are released, I can’t see how you wouldn’t call it a gear treadmill. Maybe it was not meant this way but it does feel that way

I’m sorry if that got a little whiny at the end but it seems it was a lot harder to hold back my feelings than I thought. I would like to say as a final that I love this game and I feel that I have got my money’s worth 100 times over. I hope that all my worries will be shown to have been way off and we can all have a laugh at how silly I was for being so worried .

Best Regards
Jonathan

P.S. Sorry for any bad grammar, I’m afraid I’m rather dyslexic and there is only so much spell check can do.

Like the title says, will there be another tier between Ascended and Legendary?

I’m guessing you cannot answer, but I would like to know from a player stand point, for some of us, this is quite important information.

Is it worth spending gold and time on Ascended gear this time because it’s the only tier until legendary, or will you implement another tier later on?

Ditton.3149:

Yeah…the entire dungeon is already made..that would mean major overhaul, extended time, more paid hours into the same project etc. Taking out the infusion means taking out Agony, Agony is already a built in set piece to the dungeon which would require alot of work to remove or like you said changing their stats..all of the above requires more time and effort in a project they thought they finished. Id be absolutely amazed if it changed in anyway, its just too late.

Make the new ascended gear exotic. Put an infusion slot in all existing lvl 80 exotics. Leave all the rest as it is.

Done. Adding new content and mechanics WITHOUT betraying anybody.

So basically, instead of having all of the items we could get right now. . . ANet is going to slowly add them every few months to make sure we ALWAYS are grinding for something, and potentially raising the state limit every time?

Thank you ANet, you just got rid of my constipation with what you just did. Ow. I hurt.

Allright, so basically, reskinning gear is now completely kitten since I’ll have to re-reskin it every 3 months. Thanks for that.

Also, running up gear is now nearly “a waste” unless I constantly buy black lion salvage kits since the runes will need to be switched armours (or i’ll need to reskin my lower gear onto higher gear to keep the rune, but I’d make more money salvaging it for ectoplasm). . .

Great. This game just introduced a gear and gemstore threadmill >.> Wow.

Absolutely the wrong way to go. I had fun just tooling about doing whatever I felt like because I knew I was capped in levels and gear, now the completionist and competitor in me will have to grind this stupid new stuff. As people have said, thin edge of the wedge.

Flynch.6034:

Lothair.8942:

Flynch.6034:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

impossible to argue with 99% of misinformed people… I guess this really bad communication on Anets side about this costs them quite a few customers.

Posters who are trying to explain the system just drown here. I admit, I didn’t get it first either. Bad communication. Anet, just respond to the people.

Pretty much 100% this.

Anet need to release some details that are concrete and this thread can be put to sleep. Currently there are thousands of players commenting on something that they think will happen.

And that’s fair enough, as the details are far from refined. It’s very easy to read the blogs and then see what you want to see. It’s too ambiguous and frankly Anet need to sort it out. The forums are not a nice place to be at the moment.

How much more can they spell it out? They showed us gear progression items, they talked about the future changes. They talked about PVE gating via Infusions. What am I missing here? I see a lot of informed people who care about their game discussing it and not liking the direction it is going in.

I can tell you one thing – the amount of outcry shows ANET just how passionate their community is about the game and how they want it to thrive. This is a big misstep on their part if it goes live – a lot of voices will be silenced and when anger turns to resentment to disinterest then ANET will have a lot to worry about.

Here is what we know, give or take:

New Agony system for a new dungeon.

New gear that is being released in bundles over time that has a slot designed for use in the dungeon (offensive, defensive and omni).

Current image showing a comparison with exotic, Ascended ring has more stats than Exotic with upgrade.

Legendary weapons will be boosted to remain BIS

New content will be released over time.

Ascended gear can be gained through a multitude of ways.

It will not affect sPvP as standard.

What we don’t know, give or take:

How Agony works – does it stand to stop players in their tracks after a certain point, or is it a diminishing mechanic that allows players to enjoy the dungeon and then get to a point where Agony resist is absolutely crucial. Is it gating or is it a soft-cap.

How much of a grind is the new armour to get.

Are there new recipes for upgrades that can be applied to Exotics to bring them up to the same stat-standard as the Ascended gear. Also helps crafting.

Will further dungeons use this Agony mechanic (keeping Ascended gear relative) or will they use a new mechanic that needs new gear.

I have probably forgotten some things but this is the gist of the situation in my opinion

Sorry but you really haven’t thought this through. What is the point of introducing agony if not preventing characters from progressing further if their agony boosted gear doesn’t meet the check-points aka gating?

It is a simple gear progression system.

And why add new recipes to boost exotics stat-wise? This is ALSO a gear treadmill. Simply add a new slot to all existing exotics for the new stuff – simple as that.

It would have been better if NOTHING was said about Ascended accessories; instead leaving discovery to the players upon release. It would have sufficed to bring up infusion and agony in connection with the awesome new dungeon.

If this content is being released mere months after the game launched it must have been completed, or near completion, before the game was even in the player’s hands. I would wager that this mechanic was initially shelved because it simply wasn’t quite ready for prime-time. Well it’s ready and here comes the CONTENT.

I’m excited to start exploring a new area, a new dungeon, new creature types (super-crabs!), new weapon skins and hopefully some new light armor that looks good on my male scholar. Hopefully.

We’ve been given a teaser, but too much was said. To nix the rampant speculation going on here, all Arena Net can do is tell all, just a few short hours before update! Nonsense. Why is everyone so filled with angst and graced with precognition? We should be thankful the live team is so hard at work expanding Tyria.

I went back to GW1 yesterday and reminded myself why I liked that game so much. Gear had nothing to do with endgame other than cosmetic appearance. GW1 is truly a horizontal end game. What kept me playing for five years was the fun of capturing new elite skills, designing new builds, trying different secondary professions, and setting up heroes skills (in effect letting you play 6 professions simultaneously). Unfortunately ANET scraped everything that made horizontal progression fun in GW1. There are no elite skills to capture, no new builds to try out. They basically eliminated any thought required to play the game. So now the lazy way out is to jump on the gear treadmill. I have four level 80 characters with full exotics. Before ANET decided to scrap their own manifesto I was confident I could go back to any one of them and play without a handicap. And yes I am thinking of quitting this game because of the gear treadmill and their broken promises. The ironic thing is the game I will probably switch to is GW1.

GADefence.5634:

" Legendary weapons are suppose to be the most powerful items in the game. Not some re-skinned exotic weapons. I applaud Anet for this! With the introduction to Ascended items it puts the Exotics lower on the totem pole where they belong. Underneath Ascended/Legendary items. All these guys that are saying they are going to stop playing will still be playing the game it may not be this month or the next but I bet my bottom gold piece if you track those that said they are going to be quitting they will still be around. So, stop your belly aching and enjoy the new content."

You might be right, then again, you might also be wrong. I’ll probably stick around this update, but I’ve already started spending more time away and less time careing for this game since the looming threat of it dying on the 16th zapped all my will to play, and started looking for another, better, more promising MMO then one that lies to me. I’m pretty sure most peopel will slowly start leaving past the 16th if what we think will happen will happen.

On a side note : You statement that legendaries should be above exotics is moronic. ANet stated they wouldn’t be, thusly, either you mislead your self or were mislead.

Well, get used to it because come Nov the 16th it will be reality.

Ditton.3149:

Urxx.6840:

Ditton.3149:

I cant see them retracting it all…thats alot of PR money, video production, programming…millions they would have to swallow with nothing to show for it except forum posts. Im not being negative, I just can not see them doing that from a business standpoint. They made a decision based on numbers, they are going to move forward with it.

They don’t need (nor I expect them) to trash the whole agony-infusion thing, which is where most of the programming went.

They just have to open up infusions to exotic gear. The skin they developed for the new ascended gear can still be used for new exotics.

And anyway, a company that isn’t willing to trash some work to keep their customers isn’t going very far.

eh..name me a company that changed its patch 2 days before the release based on public outcry. Im serious, if you can Id love to look at their games.

I don’t expect them to change the patch now. I would be fine if they said that due to technical reasons the patch will still go online as stated, but they have listened to feedback and will change things as soon as possible.

The reason I post is I’m worried for the future of a game I love, not to win a war against ANet.