Guild Wars 2

Hunterdan.4921:

I think many of us saw the image of the ring posted, and assumed there would also be a power ring, and a precision ring, a healing ring, etc. But what if there isn’t?
What if the ring shown, was the only ring? It’s stats base lined for running dungeons? Putting everyone on a plateau that they can design pve dungeons around. Modifying variable being your infusion, and whatever weapons you happen to take along. Sure, I could equip my higher DPS ring, but agony would down me. Again, now I am at a plateau that they can design the dungeon around.

Thoughts?

Unlikely. All the condition based builds would be raging even more if they decided to do something that dumb. We need more gear stat variety, not less and certainly not everyone using MF/Power/Precision XD

Conner.4702:

Loosifah.4739:

Urxx.6840:

Snerf.1650:

Loosifah.4739:

I can tell you now they’re not going to scrap Ascension gear and infusions. It won’t be added in sPvP and tPvP, but it’s coming.

So you guys have 2 choices.

a> grin and bear it, and hope they keep their word about no gear treadmill

or

b> leave and if you’re from europe try to get a refund after 600+ hours(which I think is stupid that you can do that).

There are a third option, and it’s the one we prefer.

Let them know through the official forums in a clear, respectful manor why we disagree with the design choice in the time leading up to and immediately after the implementation.

I’m not advocating something ridiculous like trying to get a refund on a product someone has already spent many presumably enjoyable hours on.

But letting a company know why you are dissatisfied with their product has a lot of value to the company.

I don’t think that’s ridiculous. If it turns out the product I bought is not the one that was advertised to me, I have every right to stop using that product and get my money back.

So by adding a new tier of equipment it’s not what they advertized and you should get a full refund after you’ve cost them money by hosting the servers for you to play on for 600 hours? Nice logic.

False advertisement is not allowed in Europe, hence why you will get a refund in situations like this. This is to protect the consumer from being cheated. Take it up with the supreme court and tell them you think it isn’t logical.

Yeah okay, I can see the point of that law. Like if someone sells you 5 boxes of twinkies, and it turns out that they were kittening Ho Ho’s…yeah I would want my money back.

But here’s the problem…THIS NEVER WAS FALSE ADVERTISING.

All they ever said was that items that take an unreasonable amount of time to get (thousands of hours) should not offer a statistical advantage over other players.

Now…answer me this. Do you know for a fact that these Ascended items will take thousands of hours to get? No? Then guess what? Not false advertising.

Loosifah.4739:

How is this false advertizing when they NEVER said exotic was going to be the last tier of equipment? They just said this wasn’t going to be a vertical progression game in terms of gear. But as I’ve previously stated there is ALREADY a progression table in place. Up until now exotic has just been the top.

I agree… Also the twisting of devs words and the reading between the lines needs to stop, its not helping your side of the discussion any guys.

As to the calls for refund. I hope you realise you have a very slim chance of getting a refund if anet wanted to make it difficult for you (which they are not). Technically you should have stopped playing straight away otherwise the chances increase that your only entitled to damages…

Anet is a good company I really beleive this, I mean they could have made it difficult for people wanting refunds but they have gone out of there way to provide a suitable system for it.

Hunterdan.4921:

I came across a thought I posted in another thread. But some of you fellas seem to be rather busy here, so I wanted to run this by you as well. Aside from the ragers, many of you are excellent conversationalists. So, here we go!

I think many of us saw the image of the ring posted, and assumed there would also be a power ring, and a precision ring, a healing ring, etc. But what if there isn’t?
What if the ring shown, was the only ring? It’s stats base lined for running dungeons? Putting everyone on a plateau that they can design pve dungeons around. Modifying variable being your infusion, and whatever weapons you happen to take along. Sure, I could equip my higher DPS ring, but agony would down me. Again, now I am at a plateau that they can design the dungeon around.

Thoughts?

I think it’s highly unlikely that there is only a stat combination. That would pidgeon-hole classes in certain builds, and that would go against the fact every class can play any role.

stof.9341:

Hunterdan.4921:

I think many of us saw the image of the ring posted, and assumed there would also be a power ring, and a precision ring, a healing ring, etc. But what if there isn’t?
What if the ring shown, was the only ring? It’s stats base lined for running dungeons? Putting everyone on a plateau that they can design pve dungeons around. Modifying variable being your infusion, and whatever weapons you happen to take along. Sure, I could equip my higher DPS ring, but agony would down me. Again, now I am at a plateau that they can design the dungeon around.

Thoughts?

Unlikely. All the condition based builds would be raging even more if they decided to do something that dumb. We need more gear stat variety, not less and certainly not everyone using MF/Power/Precision XD

That was just for the ring, good sir.

Ahh hell, I dunno. I just wanna know!

Hunterdan.4921:

I came across a thought I posted in another thread. But some of you fellas seem to be rather busy here, so I wanted to run this by you as well. Aside from the ragers, many of you are excellent conversationalists. So, here we go!

I think many of us saw the image of the ring posted, and assumed there would also be a power ring, and a precision ring, a healing ring, etc. But what if there isn’t?
What if the ring shown, was the only ring? It’s stats base lined for running dungeons? Putting everyone on a plateau that they can design pve dungeons around. Modifying variable being your infusion, and whatever weapons you happen to take along. Sure, I could equip my higher DPS ring, but agony would down me. Again, now I am at a plateau that they can design the dungeon around.

Thoughts?

I think it’s an interesting concept to be sure. I agree that there would a lot of merit to creating a plateau for pve dungeons to design around. But don’t they already have that plateau?

I think if that was the case however, they would be inclined to share that information. Rather than state that “this was just the beginning of a new item progression system”.

Really, a lot of this could be defused with changes similar to that. Or considerations to WVW impact, or many other small but meaningful details. The problem is that all indications thus far are for a blanket stat tier above current exotics.

Hunterdan.4921:

I think many of us saw the image of the ring posted, and assumed there would also be a power ring, and a precision ring, a healing ring, etc. But what if there isn’t?
What if the ring shown, was the only ring? It’s stats base lined for running dungeons? Putting everyone on a plateau that they can design pve dungeons around. Modifying variable being your infusion, and whatever weapons you happen to take along. Sure, I could equip my higher DPS ring, but agony would down me. Again, now I am at a plateau that they can design the dungeon around.

Thoughts?

With 200 new recipes? only an ascendent ring, and a back?
i doubt it

Snerf.1650:

I think it’s an interesting concept to be sure. I agree that there would a lot of merit to creating a plateau for pve dungeons to design around. But don’t they already have that plateau?

That’s not a plateau. That’s making the game boring XD What next? After having everyone no matter the class in the game using exactly the same stat build, the new dungeons give all players a Caladbolg they cannot drop and locks their utilities and class skills?

Look guys ! All the classes are balanced, we just had to transform everyone into Trahearne stats and skills all the same ! Perfect balance at last !

Hunterdan.4921:

I came across a thought I posted in another thread. But some of you fellas seem to be rather busy here, so I wanted to run this by you as well. Aside from the ragers, many of you are excellent conversationalists. So, here we go!

I think many of us saw the image of the ring posted, and assumed there would also be a power ring, and a precision ring, a healing ring, etc. But what if there isn’t?
What if the ring shown, was the only ring? It’s stats base lined for running dungeons? Putting everyone on a plateau that they can design pve dungeons around. Modifying variable being your infusion, and whatever weapons you happen to take along. Sure, I could equip my higher DPS ring, but agony would down me. Again, now I am at a plateau that they can design the dungeon around.

Thoughts?

Chances are there will be variations in the stat distribution of ascended gear. It simply wouldn’t make sense to pigeonhole everyone into a few select builds even if it would mean easier balancing of dungeons, and negate the core ability to customize and play your character the way you want to.

But then again, ArenaNet has surprised me lately.

Tyr.1965:

Loosifah.4739:

How is this false advertizing when they NEVER said exotic was going to be the last tier of equipment? They just said this wasn’t going to be a vertical progression game in terms of gear. But as I’ve previously stated there is ALREADY a progression table in place. Up until now exotic has just been the top.

They also never said Ascended is going to be the last tier either. They just said a new tier won’t be released every three months. So how will you feel when they release a new tier every… four months? Oh I don’t think the Warcraft kids will mind. That’s what they’ve been screaming for this whole time since the game launched and ArenaNet listened, as Linsey stated in her blog.

So congratulations. You’ve got yourself another Warcraft clone. Let’s see how long it lasts before you get bored with it and cry, beg, and plead for a company to come along and revolutionize the MMO genre. Too bad you’ve already got that with GW2 and you had to go and ruin it for the rest of us. Thanks.

Why do you people always scream “You must be a WoW kid” just because we have a different opinion than you do? I’ve been playing games LONG before WoW came out and will continue to do so LONG after it finally dies the horrible death it so desperately needs to have.

Jezath.7395:

Anet is a good company I really beleive this, I mean they could have made it difficult for people wanting refunds but they have gone out of there way to provide a suitable system for it.

I’d rather prefer they go out of their way to stick to their design phylosphy. Also because I don’t want a refund, I want a game that follows what they have done and said in the past 7 years of GW1 and GW2 development.

The refund is just a last resort if they stubbornly insist on breaking their promises (you are welcome to disagree about my take on what happened) and therefore I feel cheated.

I enjoyed reading your post. I share your opinion as well. It’s hard to read all of the “jump-the-gun-ragers” who don’t know all the facts yet and their “doom-and-gloom-im-going-to-quit” comments. If only more people thought about it more logically than automatically assuming for the worse and that Anet wants to destroy their game. Then again, I think a lot of this could have been avoided if Anet would tell us their intentions.

derLoko.2185:

@OP: I know what you mean, but that’s not how it works.

Ascended gear has better base stats AND additional stats via infusions AND protection from agony. It’s significantly better than exotic gear.

massively has a preview of the patch up and (from what they said), infusions only give protection against agony and no addition stats.

that means exotics are still relevant and aren’t outclassed by ascended gear.

that’s not to say they can’t simply add in infusions that give stats + agony resistance, but as it stands, the information we have now says that ascended gear is useful for the fractal, but nothing else.

stof.9341:

Snerf.1650:

I think it’s an interesting concept to be sure. I agree that there would a lot of merit to creating a plateau for pve dungeons to design around. But don’t they already have that plateau?

That’s not a plateau. That’s making the game boring XD What next? After having everyone no matter the class in the game using exactly the same stat build, the new dungeons give all players a Caladbolg they cannot drop and locks their utilities and class skills?

I was simply agreeing that having a sort of rough power plateau would simplify dungeon design. I wasn’t saying I supported it, or that it would look exactly like that with one stat build. I also said that I believed that there already is one in a way; current exotic tier stats.

I’m not target audience though. I loathe doing any dungeons.

Loosifah.4739:

I can tell you now they’re not going to scrap Ascension gear and infusions. It won’t be added in sPvP and tPvP, but it’s coming.

So you guys have 2 choices.

a> grin and bear it, and hope they keep their word about no gear treadmill

or

b> leave and if you’re from europe try to get a refund after 600+ hours(which I think is stupid that you can do that).

Stupid?
Do be careful where you step, we’re actually quote proud of our consumer law.

But okay, I agree full refund after 3 months of play seems unfair.
How long would I play? If for 7.5 years, Id pay 10eur a year, no expansions included. Seems long, lets make it 3 years 9 months for 20eur a year. This means 5eur for 3 months – sure, I’ll take only my 70eur back.

Why?
Because I purchased a long-term service but the terms were changed significantly and pretty soon. Actually, I’m really happy I live in a place where law offers me protection from companies who think they can do whatever they can after the payment has been issued. I think it’s only fair.

A contract works both ways. If we breach the rules, we’re banned or warned. If Arena Net back down on their word and breach the trust of their fans through false advertising, they will fall foul of the law in certain countries. In addition, broken promises and cases of ‘selling out’ hold many short and long term consequences.

Loosifah.4739:

Why do you people always scream “You must be a WoW kid” just because we have a different opinion than you do? I’ve been playing games LONG before WoW came out and will continue to do so LONG after it finally dies the horrible death it so desperately needs to have.

Because WoW is the flagship of the geargrind philosophy.

It is more like a negative adjective that anyone really thinking that you ever played WoW. What they are saying is that people who like geargrind belong there.

Creslin.1758:

Conner.4702:

Loosifah.4739:

Urxx.6840:

Snerf.1650:

Loosifah.4739:

I can tell you now they’re not going to scrap Ascension gear and infusions. It won’t be added in sPvP and tPvP, but it’s coming.

So you guys have 2 choices.

a> grin and bear it, and hope they keep their word about no gear treadmill

or

b> leave and if you’re from europe try to get a refund after 600+ hours(which I think is stupid that you can do that).

There are a third option, and it’s the one we prefer.

Let them know through the official forums in a clear, respectful manor why we disagree with the design choice in the time leading up to and immediately after the implementation.

I’m not advocating something ridiculous like trying to get a refund on a product someone has already spent many presumably enjoyable hours on.

But letting a company know why you are dissatisfied with their product has a lot of value to the company.

I don’t think that’s ridiculous. If it turns out the product I bought is not the one that was advertised to me, I have every right to stop using that product and get my money back.

So by adding a new tier of equipment it’s not what they advertized and you should get a full refund after you’ve cost them money by hosting the servers for you to play on for 600 hours? Nice logic.

False advertisement is not allowed in Europe, hence why you will get a refund in situations like this. This is to protect the consumer from being cheated. Take it up with the supreme court and tell them you think it isn’t logical.

Yeah okay, I can see the point of that law. Like if someone sells you 5 boxes of twinkies, and it turns out that they were kittening Ho Ho’s…yeah I would want my money back.

But here’s the problem…THIS NEVER WAS FALSE ADVERTISING.

All they ever said was that items that take an unreasonable amount of time to get (thousands of hours) should not offer a statistical advantage over other players.

Now…answer me this. Do you know for a fact that these Ascended items will take thousands of hours to get? No? Then guess what? Not false advertising.

In your opinion. As you can see a lot of people disagree. Are you going to say your opinion is more important? How about try looking at it from the other side.

Or if you don’t want to.. answer me this. Do you know for a fact no new tiers are going to be introduced?

Do you know for a fact that new gear tiers will be implemented?

This is all subjective.

“How is this false advertizing when they NEVER said exotic was going to be the last tier of equipment? They just said this wasn’t going to be a vertical progression game in terms of gear. But as I’ve previously stated there is ALREADY a progression table in place. Up until now exotic has just been the top.”

How is adding tiers to the game NOT vertical progression? I love how stupid this argument is, since you are completely wrong.

‘The new stuff ISN’T better, get over it!’

Ascended > Exotic. Done, proven better. Stop arguing.

‘They DIDN’T add vertical progression, they just added a new tier!’

Invoke Literacy. Done, proven wrong. Stop arguing.

interesting thought hunterdan, but i don’t think they would wanna give everyone the same stats, but maybe the magic find stat is always there, or a base of every stat is there. but you choose wich are the highest, people want to customise aswell

indeed nurse, what disappoints me is how they handle this with releasing information, could have been allot better tbh. But i guess it’s a tactic to get threadmillers interested, i have no idea. In any case, not knowing things is torture for people that are worried (including me)

Clearly I should have come to the forums months ago and voiced my opinion on how much I enjoyed the game. From other posters it seems all the exiles from other MMOs have been upset because they aren’t getting what they want.

Sorry ANUT…I was to busy playing the game I enjoy and to see a complete turnaround on what I though the goals were for this game has had me coming here to spew my rage instead of logging into the game.

We can disect the PR statements, we can dissect the videos from 2011, we can say what we think thye meant or what we think they didn’t mean. It’s dropping tomorrow and after this weekend if I no longer feel like I am playing Guild Wars…..:(

Maybe its the GW1 vet in me, it showed you could have grind IF the player chose too. Look at titles, EOTN ranks, FoW Armor…

In my opinion (The unintellingent can rip it apart if they want)
Guild Wars 1 had FoW armor. Guild Wars 2 has legendary items. The gap in aquiring FOW armor was insane compared to the other max armor that you could get for a few plat at the end of story town.

Just saying…

I’m still trusting you to keep me in my niche and not send me down a slippery slope of garbage.

Your argument is completely subjective to thinking “exotic = best.” Which they NEVER said.

Stop arguing.

Conner.4702:

Creslin.1758:

Conner.4702:

Loosifah.4739:

Urxx.6840:

Snerf.1650:

Loosifah.4739:

I can tell you now they’re not going to scrap Ascension gear and infusions. It won’t be added in sPvP and tPvP, but it’s coming.

So you guys have 2 choices.

a> grin and bear it, and hope they keep their word about no gear treadmill

or

b> leave and if you’re from europe try to get a refund after 600+ hours(which I think is stupid that you can do that).

There are a third option, and it’s the one we prefer.

Let them know through the official forums in a clear, respectful manor why we disagree with the design choice in the time leading up to and immediately after the implementation.

I’m not advocating something ridiculous like trying to get a refund on a product someone has already spent many presumably enjoyable hours on.

But letting a company know why you are dissatisfied with their product has a lot of value to the company.

I don’t think that’s ridiculous. If it turns out the product I bought is not the one that was advertised to me, I have every right to stop using that product and get my money back.

So by adding a new tier of equipment it’s not what they advertized and you should get a full refund after you’ve cost them money by hosting the servers for you to play on for 600 hours? Nice logic.

False advertisement is not allowed in Europe, hence why you will get a refund in situations like this. This is to protect the consumer from being cheated. Take it up with the supreme court and tell them you think it isn’t logical.

Yeah okay, I can see the point of that law. Like if someone sells you 5 boxes of twinkies, and it turns out that they were kittening Ho Ho’s…yeah I would want my money back.

But here’s the problem…THIS NEVER WAS FALSE ADVERTISING.

All they ever said was that items that take an unreasonable amount of time to get (thousands of hours) should not offer a statistical advantage over other players.

Now…answer me this. Do you know for a fact that these Ascended items will take thousands of hours to get? No? Then guess what? Not false advertising.

In your opinion. As you can see a lot of people disagree. Are you going to say your opinion is more important? How about try looking at it from the other side.

Or if you don’t want to.. answer me this. Do you know for a fact no new tiers are going to be introduced?

A court in UK banned a mascara commercial featuring a celebrity photo where the eyelashes were heavily digitally enhanced, because that was deemed false advertising, as it was creating unrealistic expectations.
Of course, that was UK court, not EU, but that’s the freshest example on my mind: that’s how serious EU is about advertisement and expectations.

Now compare it to GW2 and all the multiple quotes from the marketing campaign, two of which I have in my signature. The pressure here is really high on companies not to falsely advertise, and if so, fines are high and full refunds are expected.

Loosifah.4739:

Your argument is completely subjective to thinking “exotic = best.” Which they NEVER said.

Stop arguing.

Your argument that adding a new tier isn’t vertical progression is objectively wrong.

I respect those who say “I see it’s vertical progression but I like it anyway”. At least they aren’t in denial.

chronus.1326:

Loosifah.4739:

Why do you people always scream “You must be a WoW kid” just because we have a different opinion than you do? I’ve been playing games LONG before WoW came out and will continue to do so LONG after it finally dies the horrible death it so desperately needs to have.

Because WoW is the flagship of the geargrind philosophy.

It is more like a negative adjective that anyone really thinking that you ever played WoW. What they are saying is that people who like geargrind belong there.

Yep, exactly. There are two types of MMO’s on the market: Guild Wars (up until this point) and every other MMO, of which WoW is the king. I wish those who are in favor of this gear grind through a gated dungeon go play Warcraft or its multiple clones and let the rest of us have an alternative in Guild Wars.

My argument isn’t that adding a new tier isn’t vertical. My argument is that they never promised exotic would be the last tier; that was an assumption on your part.

They have promised that they wouldn’t be adding a new tier every three months(Which people are picking apart), but the reason it was worded that was is because everyone was screaming “WHAT IF THEY ADD A NEW TIER EVERY THREE MONTHS!?”

They actually have stated that exotic would be the final, best gear. They also stated that they wanted exotics to be easy to get.

A company sells their product on a promise, a manifesto that there would be no gated gear, no gear treadmill, no power creep. A promise that this MMO would be different.

Well, turns out that the entire time they have been developing gated gear with a power creep.

Why have they been developing this feature that was not needed when so many things in the game are broken?

The storyline is mediocre, at best. Whoever thought we should all play right hand to Treebeard the magnificent should feel bad.

The camera is still wonky.

Free transfers are still ruining WvW.

Bot problems.

The man running the economy doesn’t know anything about economics.

Broken events, broken quests, broken skills.

All of these problems that need to be addressed, and what did they spend my money on? Something I didn’t want, something I stopped playing other MMOs because of it.

Power creep. That’s all it is folks, don’t try to cherry coat it.

Should Anet continue on their current design model this game will just be another burnt out husk we will all refer to as another failed WoW clone.

veritech.1048:

They actually have stated that exotic would be the final, best gear. They also stated that they wanted exotics to be easy to get.

A company sells their product on a promise, a manifesto that there would be no gated gear, no gear treadmill, no power creep. A promise that this MMO would be different.

Well, turns out that the entire time they have been developing gated gear with a power creep.

Why have they been developing this feature that was not needed when so many things in the game are broken?

The storyline is mediocre, at best. Whoever thought we should all play right hand to Treebeard the magnificent should feel bad.

The camera is still wonky.

Free transfers are still ruining WvW.

Bot problems.

The man running the economy doesn’t know anything about economics.

Broken events, broken quests, broken skills.

All of these problems that need to be addressed, and what did they spend my money on? Something I didn’t want, something I stopped playing other MMOs because of it.

Power creep. That’s all it is folks, don’t try to cherry coat it.

Should Anet continue on their current design model this game will just be another burnt out husk we will all refer to as another failed WoW clone.

Where/When did they state Exotics are the final tier?

Tyr.1965:

chronus.1326:

Also this is quite dumb. Why must people call everything that’s come out after WoW a WoW clone? Because WoW didn’t copy everything from every game that came before it; right? Games like Rift aren’t clones, they do their own thing. You argument is stupid.

Loosifah.4739:

My argument isn’t that adding a new tier isn’t vertical. My argument is that they never promised exotic would be the last tier; that was an assumption on your part.

They have promised that they wouldn’t be adding a new tier every three months(Which people are picking apart), but the reason it was worded that was is because everyone was screaming “WHAT IF THEY ADD A NEW TIER EVERY THREE MONTHS!?”

Do I really need to quote this on every reply of this kind?…

From the blog:

“Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.” – Colin Johanson

Source: http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success

That is more than ENOUGH proof that level 80 gear was never going to have more stats. If this was an expansion, ok, I can bare with it and more levels and new zones, but this aint an expansion pack.

Issue solved, remove ascended or match the stats to exotics and legendaries to make them optional and not a must.

I actually have a theory that agony/infusion will only be limited to Fractals of the Mists, and there will be no future dungeons that will have agony/infusion.

Basing on how GW2 is dynamic with their events and world-changing events, FotM will also change. Next month or two, we might get to save Tybalt or Forgal, or we may travel to Orr before it was destroyed. Or how about they change one chain in the FotM that reflects the current Holiday. Maybe there’s a chain where you get to see Oswald before he was cut to pieces.

Hunterdan.4921:

I came across a thought I posted in another thread. But some of you fellas seem to be rather busy here, so I wanted to run this by you as well. Aside from the ragers, many of you are excellent conversationalists. So, here we go!

I think many of us saw the image of the ring posted, and assumed there would also be a power ring, and a precision ring, a healing ring, etc. But what if there isn’t?
What if the ring shown, was the only ring? It’s stats base lined for running dungeons? Putting everyone on a plateau that they can design pve dungeons around. Modifying variable being your infusion, and whatever weapons you happen to take along. Sure, I could equip my higher DPS ring, but agony would down me. Again, now I am at a plateau that they can design the dungeon around.

Thoughts?

This is about my biggest hope at the moment. Perhaps ANet has decided to limit the stats on Ascended gear such that it has lower or equal combat efficiency as Exotics. For example, if the item has a higher item budget, but all of that additional item budget is spent on Magic Find, Exotics with all combat related stats would still be useful.

However, there is one major problem here, Legendary weapons. If Legendaries are bumped up in power, and all Ascended items are non-optimal for combat, does that mean I need to farm a Legendary to have optimal combat stats?

No thank you. IMO, ANet should keep everything about the patch, except make Ascended gear statistically equal to Exotic.

Not going to happen, and again they never promised exotic would be the last tier.

Also this may not be an official “expansion” but this is them opening up a new zone to play in. It’s basically a micro-expansion.

BondageBill.4021:

Hunterdan.4921:

I came across a thought I posted in another thread. But some of you fellas seem to be rather busy here, so I wanted to run this by you as well. Aside from the ragers, many of you are excellent conversationalists. So, here we go!

I think many of us saw the image of the ring posted, and assumed there would also be a power ring, and a precision ring, a healing ring, etc. But what if there isn’t?
What if the ring shown, was the only ring? It’s stats base lined for running dungeons? Putting everyone on a plateau that they can design pve dungeons around. Modifying variable being your infusion, and whatever weapons you happen to take along. Sure, I could equip my higher DPS ring, but agony would down me. Again, now I am at a plateau that they can design the dungeon around.

Thoughts?

This is about my biggest hope at the moment. Perhaps ANet has decided to limit the stats on Ascended gear such that it has lower or equal combat efficiency as Exotics. For example, if the item has a higher item budget, but all of that additional item budget is spent on Magic Find, Exotics with all combat related stats would still be useful.

However, there is one major problem here, Legendary weapons. If Legendaries are bumped up in power, and all Ascended items are non-optimal for combat, does that mean I need to farm a Legendary to have optimal combat stats?

No thank you. IMO, ANet should keep everything about the patch, except make Ascended gear statistically equal to Exotic.

Okay, that would be an “okay” but what about the new content? we would require that gear in order to do it… which is not what was said.

And I agree with BondageBills it was said that legendaries are going to be matching in power with ascended, that means ascended is more powerfull than exotics, that means they are not following their “it’s optional, just cosmetic” promise.

Which is the whole deal in this thread.

Rhyaehar.9504:

Loosifah.4739:

I can tell you now they’re not going to scrap Ascension gear and infusions. It won’t be added in sPvP and tPvP, but it’s coming.

So you guys have 2 choices.

a> grin and bear it, and hope they keep their word about no gear treadmill

or

b> leave and if you’re from europe try to get a refund after 600+ hours(which I think is stupid that you can do that).

Stupid?
Do be careful where you step, we’re actually quote proud of our consumer law.

But okay, I agree full refund after 3 months of play seems unfair.
How long would I play? If for 7.5 years, Id pay 10eur a year, no expansions included. Seems long, lets make it 3 years 9 months for 20eur a year. This means 5eur for 3 months – sure, I’ll take only my 70eur back.

Why?
Because I purchased a long-term service but the terms were changed significantly and pretty soon. Actually, I’m really happy I live in a place where law offers me protection from companies who think they can do whatever they can after the payment has been issued. I think it’s only fair.

I so wish that were the case in the US. The levels of fraud, lying and deceit among the entrepreneurs running businesses these days is alarming.

- signed, one grumpy old man

tkalamba.2541:

veritech.1048:

They actually have stated that exotic would be the final, best gear. They also stated that they wanted exotics to be easy to get.

A company sells their product on a promise, a manifesto that there would be no gated gear, no gear treadmill, no power creep. A promise that this MMO would be different.

Well, turns out that the entire time they have been developing gated gear with a power creep.

Why have they been developing this feature that was not needed when so many things in the game are broken?

The storyline is mediocre, at best. Whoever thought we should all play right hand to Treebeard the magnificent should feel bad.

The camera is still wonky.

Free transfers are still ruining WvW.

Bot problems.

The man running the economy doesn’t know anything about economics.

Broken events, broken quests, broken skills.

All of these problems that need to be addressed, and what did they spend my money on? Something I didn’t want, something I stopped playing other MMOs because of it.

Power creep. That’s all it is folks, don’t try to cherry coat it.

Should Anet continue on their current design model this game will just be another burnt out husk we will all refer to as another failed WoW clone.

Where/When did they state Exotics are the final tier?

When they promised no gated gear and no power creep. In their manifesto.

Loosifah.4739:

My argument isn’t that adding a new tier isn’t vertical. My argument is that they never promised exotic would be the last tier; that was an assumption on your part.

They have promised that they wouldn’t be adding a new tier every three months(Which people are picking apart), but the reason it was worded that was is because everyone was screaming “WHAT IF THEY ADD A NEW TIER EVERY THREE MONTHS!?”

Clearly you don’t want to or can’t understand. I will give you one final example.

Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.
-Mike Obrien

We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills
-Colin Johanson

Let’s take WoW for example. Why are you running the same dungeons over and over and over again? To get better gear because the next dungeon is impossible to complete without gear from the previous one.

What are we getting? New armor with better stats because the new dungeon will be impossible to complete without this gear.

Do you see the resemblance?

It doesn’t matter if it’s every 3 months, ever 3.5 months, every 5 months … When you need to have better gear to complete a new dungeon you have vertical progression and you have to get that gear to be able to finish it. See where this is going? New gear is not optional anymore, it’s mandatory.

Now, please read the second quote again.

veritech.1048:

tkalamba.2541:

veritech.1048:

They actually have stated that exotic would be the final, best gear. They also stated that they wanted exotics to be easy to get.

A company sells their product on a promise, a manifesto that there would be no gated gear, no gear treadmill, no power creep. A promise that this MMO would be different.

Well, turns out that the entire time they have been developing gated gear with a power creep.

Why have they been developing this feature that was not needed when so many things in the game are broken?

The storyline is mediocre, at best. Whoever thought we should all play right hand to Treebeard the magnificent should feel bad.

The camera is still wonky.

Free transfers are still ruining WvW.

Bot problems.

The man running the economy doesn’t know anything about economics.

Broken events, broken quests, broken skills.

All of these problems that need to be addressed, and what did they spend my money on? Something I didn’t want, something I stopped playing other MMOs because of it.

Power creep. That’s all it is folks, don’t try to cherry coat it.

Should Anet continue on their current design model this game will just be another burnt out husk we will all refer to as another failed WoW clone.

Where/When did they state Exotics are the final tier?

When they promised no gated gear and no power creep. In their manifesto.

That never said Exotics were the last tier we would see. All it said was Legendaries would always be the Best in Slot items.

“Not going to happen, and again they never promised exotic would be the last tier.

Also this may not be an official “expansion” but this is them opening up a new zone to play in. It’s basically a micro-expansion."

They promised no vertical progress. Exotics was the vertical limit. Ascended beats exotics. Egro, they promised exotics was the limit and broke their promise.

And don’t say ascended isn’t vertical progress. It’s better, and became required.

Loosifah.4739:

Not going to happen, and again they never promised exotic would be the last tier.

Also this may not be an official “expansion” but this is them opening up a new zone to play in. It’s basically a micro-expansion.

facepalm really… call it as you want, no they didn’t say exotics would have the same power as legendaries. Nor they said legendaries would have more power than exotics, all they said was: All rare gear would have balanced stats, and that the rarest would be just for cosmetic and would be only optional to feel acomplishment.

Don’t make me quote colin again… please… it’s been posted twise in this page only. Please read before posting.

cherrie.8907:

Conner.4702:

Creslin.1758:

Conner.4702:

Loosifah.4739:

Urxx.6840:

Snerf.1650:

Loosifah.4739:

I can tell you now they’re not going to scrap Ascension gear and infusions. It won’t be added in sPvP and tPvP, but it’s coming.

So you guys have 2 choices.

a> grin and bear it, and hope they keep their word about no gear treadmill

or

b> leave and if you’re from europe try to get a refund after 600+ hours(which I think is stupid that you can do that).

There are a third option, and it’s the one we prefer.

Let them know through the official forums in a clear, respectful manor why we disagree with the design choice in the time leading up to and immediately after the implementation.

I’m not advocating something ridiculous like trying to get a refund on a product someone has already spent many presumably enjoyable hours on.

But letting a company know why you are dissatisfied with their product has a lot of value to the company.

I don’t think that’s ridiculous. If it turns out the product I bought is not the one that was advertised to me, I have every right to stop using that product and get my money back.

So by adding a new tier of equipment it’s not what they advertized and you should get a full refund after you’ve cost them money by hosting the servers for you to play on for 600 hours? Nice logic.

False advertisement is not allowed in Europe, hence why you will get a refund in situations like this. This is to protect the consumer from being cheated. Take it up with the supreme court and tell them you think it isn’t logical.

Yeah okay, I can see the point of that law. Like if someone sells you 5 boxes of twinkies, and it turns out that they were kittening Ho Ho’s…yeah I would want my money back.

But here’s the problem…THIS NEVER WAS FALSE ADVERTISING.

All they ever said was that items that take an unreasonable amount of time to get (thousands of hours) should not offer a statistical advantage over other players.

Now…answer me this. Do you know for a fact that these Ascended items will take thousands of hours to get? No? Then guess what? Not false advertising.

In your opinion. As you can see a lot of people disagree. Are you going to say your opinion is more important? How about try looking at it from the other side.

Or if you don’t want to.. answer me this. Do you know for a fact no new tiers are going to be introduced?

A court in UK banned a mascara commercial featuring a celebrity photo where the eyelashes were heavily digitally enhanced, because that was deemed false advertising, as it was creating unrealistic expectations.
Of course, that was UK court, not EU, but that’s the freshest example on my mind: that’s how serious EU is about advertisement and expectations.

Now compare it to GW2 and all the multiple quotes from the marketing campaign, two of which I have in my signature. The pressure here is really high on companies not to falsely advertise, and if so, fines are high and full refunds are expected.

The example you gave IS false advertising. Because the product they are selling is NOT what they are representing in the picture.

I’m sorry, but you guys are taking a major leap of logic if you think that a court is going to rule in your favor because YOU decided to interpret Ascended gear as something that will turn the game into something that is all about gear grind.

Oh and wait, I forgot to mention that none of you have even PLAYED the game after the patch, so you seriously have no clue what it is actually going to be like, and yet you are all prepared to take ANet to court about it. Can we please stop the histrionics here?

Loosifah.4739:

and again they never promised exotic would be the last tier.

No matter how many times you say that it’s still not gonna be true.

Several interviews and videos have been posted in this thread where they say that, and also say things regarding the legendaries and how they are gonna b the same stat as Exotics.

This change is completely new and goes against what they were saying (and pressing) for years before the game came out.

They’re releasing the entire Ascended set in bits and pieces over time, implementing a slow power creep into the game. With every new dungeon, you will have to grind all new infusions to be able to do the content. That’s a power creep gear grind with gated content that not everyone can participate in unless they grind the gear. This is absolutely against everything they said verbatim in their manifesto. If you don’t understand this, go watch the manifesto again. Please.

tkalamba.2541:

veritech.1048:

tkalamba.2541:

veritech.1048:

They actually have stated that exotic would be the final, best gear. They also stated that they wanted exotics to be easy to get.

A company sells their product on a promise, a manifesto that there would be no gated gear, no gear treadmill, no power creep. A promise that this MMO would be different.

Well, turns out that the entire time they have been developing gated gear with a power creep.

Why have they been developing this feature that was not needed when so many things in the game are broken?

The storyline is mediocre, at best. Whoever thought we should all play right hand to Treebeard the magnificent should feel bad.

The camera is still wonky.

Free transfers are still ruining WvW.

Bot problems.

The man running the economy doesn’t know anything about economics.

Broken events, broken quests, broken skills.

All of these problems that need to be addressed, and what did they spend my money on? Something I didn’t want, something I stopped playing other MMOs because of it.

Power creep. That’s all it is folks, don’t try to cherry coat it.

Should Anet continue on their current design model this game will just be another burnt out husk we will all refer to as another failed WoW clone.

Where/When did they state Exotics are the final tier?

When they promised no gated gear and no power creep. In their manifesto.

That never said Exotics were the last tier we would see. All it said was Legendaries would always be the Best in Slot items.

But they did say that there wouldn’t be power creep or gated gear.

This implies exotic is the final tier.

Just because you cannot read, doesn’t mean everyone else cannot.

GADefence.5634:

“Not going to happen, and again they never promised exotic would be the last tier.

Also this may not be an official “expansion” but this is them opening up a new zone to play in. It’s basically a micro-expansion."

They promised no vertical progress. Exotics was the vertical limit. Ascended beats exotics. Egro, they promised exotics was the limit and broke their promise.

And don’t say ascended isn’t vertical progress. It’s better, and became required.

I’m going to rewrite part of your post and just change two words:

_They promised no vertical progress. Rares was the vertical limit. Exotics beats rares. Egro, they promised rares was the limit and broke their promise.

And don’t say exotics isn’t vertical progress. It’s better, and became required._

See what I did there? The game ALREADY had vertical progress.

Nerth.3940:

Loosifah.4739:

My argument isn’t that adding a new tier isn’t vertical. My argument is that they never promised exotic would be the last tier; that was an assumption on your part.

They have promised that they wouldn’t be adding a new tier every three months(Which people are picking apart), but the reason it was worded that was is because everyone was screaming “WHAT IF THEY ADD A NEW TIER EVERY THREE MONTHS!?”

Clearly you don’t want to or can’t understand. I will give you one final example.

Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.
-Mike Obrien

We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills
-Colin Johanson

Let’s take WoW for example. Why are you running the same dungeons over and over and over again? To get better gear because the next dungeon is impossible to complete without gear from the previous one.

What are we getting? New armor with better stats because the new dungeon will be impossible to complete without this gear.

Do you see the resemblance?

It doesn’t matter if it’s every 3 months, ever 3.5 months, every 5 months … When you need to have better gear to complete a new dungeon you have vertical progression and you have to get that gear to be able to finish it. See where this is going? New gear is not optional anymore, it’s mandatory.

Now, please read the second quote again.

It’s an uncompletable dungeon. It doesnt finish….. and you can still experience all 9 fractals without Ascended gear. This means it’s not gated content, therefore the Ascended gear is not mandatory. If there’s no end to it, and it resets everyweek…. then you may never need to bother with Ascended gear, as you still have access to all the content and the option of doing the dungeon. You can still WvW, you can still Spvp.

Nothing at all will be locked out to you. You can even still do the difficult portions of the dungeon, all it is a resistance, not a 100% immunity. Sure at a certain point you will need to mitigate Agony, but you can still do the entire fractal at a lower difficulty, over and over and over again.

Yamiino.1827:

Loosifah.4739:

My argument isn’t that adding a new tier isn’t vertical. My argument is that they never promised exotic would be the last tier; that was an assumption on your part.

They have promised that they wouldn’t be adding a new tier every three months(Which people are picking apart), but the reason it was worded that was is because everyone was screaming “WHAT IF THEY ADD A NEW TIER EVERY THREE MONTHS!?”

Do I really need to quote this on every reply of this kind?…

From the blog:

“Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.” – Colin Johanson

Source: http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success

That is more than ENOUGH proof that level 80 gear was never going to have more stats. If this was an expansion, ok, I can bare with it and more levels and new zones, but this aint an expansion pack.

Issue solved, remove ascended or match the stats to exotics and legendaries to make them optional and not a must.

im sorry but they have actually stated that theyv want people to look back on the content they have released and for people to take it as an expansions worth of content.

Creslin.1758:

GADefence.5634:

“Not going to happen, and again they never promised exotic would be the last tier.

Also this may not be an official “expansion” but this is them opening up a new zone to play in. It’s basically a micro-expansion."

They promised no vertical progress. Exotics was the vertical limit. Ascended beats exotics. Egro, they promised exotics was the limit and broke their promise.

And don’t say ascended isn’t vertical progress. It’s better, and became required.

I’m going to rewrite part of your post and just change two words:

_They promised no vertical progress. Rares was the vertical limit. Exotics beats rares. Egro, they promised rares was the limit and broke their promise.

And don’t say exotics isn’t vertical progress. It’s better, and became required._

See what I did there? The game ALREADY had vertical progress.

The key point is raising the ceiling after release.

We knew about those tiers before. This it isn’t creep if it already exists.

Ascended did not exist, thus creep.

veritech.1048:

tkalamba.2541:

veritech.1048:

tkalamba.2541:

veritech.1048:

They actually have stated that exotic would be the final, best gear. They also stated that they wanted exotics to be easy to get.

A company sells their product on a promise, a manifesto that there would be no gated gear, no gear treadmill, no power creep. A promise that this MMO would be different.

Well, turns out that the entire time they have been developing gated gear with a power creep.

Why have they been developing this feature that was not needed when so many things in the game are broken?

The storyline is mediocre, at best. Whoever thought we should all play right hand to Treebeard the magnificent should feel bad.

The camera is still wonky.

Free transfers are still ruining WvW.

Bot problems.

The man running the economy doesn’t know anything about economics.

Broken events, broken quests, broken skills.

All of these problems that need to be addressed, and what did they spend my money on? Something I didn’t want, something I stopped playing other MMOs because of it.

Power creep. That’s all it is folks, don’t try to cherry coat it.

Should Anet continue on their current design model this game will just be another burnt out husk we will all refer to as another failed WoW clone.

Where/When did they state Exotics are the final tier?

When they promised no gated gear and no power creep. In their manifesto.

That never said Exotics were the last tier we would see. All it said was Legendaries would always be the Best in Slot items.

But they did say that there wouldn’t be power creep or gated gear.

This implies exotic is the final tier.

Just because you cannot read, doesn’t mean everyone else cannot.

Just because that’s what you got from it doesn’t make it true.

And just because it wasn’t implemented straight out the door doesn’t mean they lied. It’s possible it was meant to be implemented from the start, they just hadn’t finished it yet.