Guild Wars 2

As a non-casual player I was always told that i should find another game, because this game is casual! And guess what, i’ve been with ArenaNet for over 10 years now, yes i’m a GW1 beta player, and it’s kind of disrespectful when a casual GW2 player that never touched GW1 is telling you to move on to another MMO is kind of sad!

BUT HAH! There you go, I really believe RAIDING will be hard, and i truly hope there will be high chance that you fail if you are not coordinated a lot! I did miss hard challenging content, because only two things that i was enjoying in my playtime was Fractal50 & GvG 15v15, every thing else is casual, even TT.

Thx anet for listening to our desire for something more advanced! <3

This not GW1 though. Thats like saying Warcraft fans should have say so in the direction of World of Warcraft gameplay. ..

I’m happy for you.

I’m a casual myself, and don’t see any appeal to dungeons, fractals, or raids, so I just hope there will be ways for me to obtain the new shinies like the Legendary Weapons and Armor without having to pug, it’s a nightmare for my main Ranger.

Knighthonor.4061:

This not GW1 though. Thats like saying Warcraft fans should have say so in the direction of World of Warcraft gameplay. ..

Warcraft and World of Warcraft have nothing in common as games aside from lore and name.

They are about as similar as Forza and Civilization.

If it’s moderately challenging, but open-to-all, like LFR (in MoP), it will be a good thing for the game.

If it’s overly challenging and all gated, organised and therefore, basically, shut-off from most players, it will be a bad thing for the game.

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

Knighthonor.4061:

This not GW1 though. Thats like saying Warcraft fans should have say so in the direction of World of Warcraft gameplay. ..

Try more. Both GW 1 and GW 2 share the same universe, names, ideas, thematic s, lore, both are online required for play games. The creators are the same and still here, many prominent employees (field is irrelevant) are still the same since 10 years ago. List can go on and on

You said nothing that means GW2 is anything like GW1 as a game .. and in many ways GW 2 is as different from GW1 as WOW was from WC3 (ignore the MMO aspect of WOW).

WOW and WC3 shared everything you cited with GW1/2, Blizzard’s entire premise of WOW was that it was the world of WC3 brought to ‘life’ in an RPG, aside from the MMO aspect which isn’t relevant to the WOW/GW comparison.

Kraggy.4169:

You said nothing that means GW2 is anything like GW1 as a game .. and in many ways GW 2 is as different from GW1 as WOW was from WC3 (ignore the MMO aspect of WOW).

Just ignore the important bit everyone, nothing to see here.

Tigaseye.2047:

If it’s moderately challenging, but open-to-all, like LFR (in MoP), it will be a good thing for the game.

If it’s overly challenging and all gated, organised and therefore, basically, shut-off from most players, it will be a bad thing for the game.

It’s already been stated it has been designed so only a very small proportion should be able to complete it, at least early on..

I have no major issue with this – it can be a great selling point to have a massively difficult raid in a time other MMO’s are dumbing down or removing their raids. The key is whether they are doing a good enough job to teach players how to succeed before they enter the raid

Colin stated only pvp has people utilising the combat to its fullest and nowhere is this being done in pve (yet). That’s a design flaw, which I’m sure they are well aware of. A successful raid hinges as much on a well implemented learning curve as it does mechanics and an embracing community.

Raids shouldn’t be their to teach players their professions and skills, they’re there to test their mastery of them.

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

(GW1) was and still is as of today very easy after the introduction of heroes, PvE only elites and title skills/buffs along with consumables.

True, but I was able to enjoy much more of GW1’s content due to things like heroes. For example: by the time I joined finding a pug to capture an elite was near impossible.

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

I would like to suggest that you are just jealous of people being better at a certain part of the content. Chances are a person who does not likes raids is at the moment not liking fractals/dungeons. Why would you NEED the new armor? For open world? It makes an galactic difference I am sure. For the QoL stat change? For where, again Open World? Since the only place that QoL would be useful is the content you do not play.

I disagree, I am not jealous of your ability to learn and play boss encounters, I just don’t find them fun. For the most part I’m not too bothered that there are so many rewards associated with dungeons and fractals that can only be obtained by completing them. Sure I’d like some, but I’m put off by the need to replay multiple times content I don’t enjoy.

Would I like to be able to get Legendary armor? Sure, it’d be really cool. Am I bothered by Legendary Armor being rewards for Raids? No, not particularly, I get it, it gives people a target to aim for. I guess I’ll just live without.

Please understand though that if some of the best looking (obviously IMO, and yet to be seen) Armor skins in the game are restricted to Raids (as with Dungeons), that I will be a little disappointed. I’m pretty sure everyone, regardless of content they play, like to make their characters look cool.

Also, you’re right – I don’t need the stat change of Legendary items, but it’s nice to have. Same as anyone who raids, it’s nice but not essential.

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

No more entitlement, more exclusivity. Let the only barrier that a casual player should met in this exclusivity, be its own stubbornness and refusal (on various reasons), and not because the game does not permit or if it does, it takes galactic effort.

Except there are very real barriers to Dungeons and Raids specifically, which make it hard to engage with – the time required to sit and play through them in one sitting. For those able to set aside whole evenings and weekends to group content, this is not an issue. For some players, trying to find a 2 hour slot to play continuously may be very hard. It certainly is for me.

You can keep your exclusive items for Raids and Dungeons, but please, drop the exclusive attitude.

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

PS: Dungeon rewards are not exclusive, you can earn them in PvP.

Yeah, unfortunately I find I get stressed out quite quickly playing PvP, so I’ve decided not to play much as I play GW2 to relax.

Thanks for reading the reply. I think it’s unfortunate how so many people get so angry about content just because it might not be the content they enjoy. I do understand it, I just think people could be a little more patient and accepting!

I am genuinely glad that Raids will be coming for those who enjoy them. I personally am looking forward to new story and open world content the most.

I’m confident in Anet’s ability to deliver challenging content, having played a lot of GW1.

I’m also confident in their ability to release that content alongside more accessible content so that non-raiders aren’t left in some sort of content desert and feel penalized for not wanting to try to play something that’s more difficult than pressing 1.

I’m certain the map updates and LS will charge forward, but I like that raid wing releases are not on their content release plan for a regular basis. I really enjoy all of GW2s content, as a whole, but after Liadri and the LS2 master achievements I was sorely missing something difficult, and one of the primary complaints I heard from guild member who have left GW2 was that there’s just not enough challenge.

PopeUrban.2578:

penalized for not wanting to try to play something that’s more difficult than pressing 1.

Seriously? I have encountered a few 1 spammers, but there’s no need to label all non-raid players. It makes it much harder to listen to anything else you’ve said.

djsarcher.9263:

PopeUrban.2578:

penalized for not wanting to try to play something that’s more difficult than pressing 1.

Seriously? I have encountered a few 1 spammers, but there’s no need to label all non-raid players. It makes it much harder to listen to anything else you’ve said.

My apologies. I really didn’t mean to offend anyone. It’s simply that the most adamant “RAIDS ARE DOOM” posters tend to fall in to that mold.

It’s cool to not like certain content. For instance I find GW2’s PvP to be boring and without a sense of risk. I also don’t demand pvp and wvw skins be given to me for PvE, or demand that the gift of battle be removed from legendary crafting.

It’s not cool to demand types of content you don’t like be made a simply more tedious method for requiring the exact same rewards you could obtain by spamming 1.

Unfortunately there’s a very vocal subset of the community that seems to think “play the way you want to” also means “gain every single item in the game by playing only the content you want to” despite a clear and deliberate pattern of implementation by arenanet that rewards specific prestige skins or ease of use legendaries for specific required content.

I’m not implying that not liking raids makes you somehow less. I’m implying that attempting to persecute players that want unique rewards for unique challenges does.

Some “casuals” enjoy difficult challenges too. Please stop equating “casual” to “bad” or “easy mode” for kittens sake. Many of us do not appreciate it.

PopeUrban.2578:

My apologies. I really didn’t mean to offend anyone.

snip

It’s not cool to demand types of content you don’t like be made a simply more tedious method for requiring the exact same rewards you could obtain by spamming 1.

Unfortunately there’s a very vocal subset of the community that seems to think “play the way you want to” also means “gain every single item in the game by playing only the content you want to”

No worries, just wanting to make sure we stick to reasoned conversation rather than the other flame war threads.

I totally agree with you on people who seem to want _everything _ without playing all aspects of the game. Gift of battle, for instance is one reason I decided not to try and craft a legendary weapon.

I’m ok with rewards specific to content. I wonder if part of the issue is all players currently feeling an overall lack of reward for the content they do play. (usually once all or most available rewards have been obtained)

This is where in my mind the argument comes in for some kind of currency conversion system where for example Karma or Badges of Honor could be converted to Dungeon tokens. This seems to be controversial though, as there seem to be some people who really want exclusive rewards as a way to feel special. Personally I don’t really understand that, mostly because I’d rather get on with enjoying playing the game the way I like

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Some “casuals” enjoy difficult challenges too. Please stop equating “casual” to “bad” or “easy mode” for kittens sake. Many of us do not appreciate it.

This x1000. You can still be casual and good at the game. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I’ll still be casual, but also enjoying the raid content. And if I can’t find the time to commit to it, then I won’t feel entitled to the rewards. Let people have their shiny trophies and achievements for actual achievements. The game has so few of them.

How about we see how the raids play before we congratulate ANet. Lets see what we get.

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

Knighthonor.4061:

This not GW1 though. Thats like saying Warcraft fans should have say so in the direction of World of Warcraft gameplay. ..

Try more. Both GW 1 and GW 2 share the same universe, names, ideas, thematic s, lore, both are online required for play games. The creators are the same and still here, many prominent employees (field is irrelevant) are still the same since 10 years ago. List can go on and on. Guild Wars 1 was a hard game. An average GW 2 player would quit after 2 days. The game was and still is as of today very easy after the introduction of heroes, PvE only elites and title skills/buffs along with consumables. But before that we would cry in FoW, UW, Urgoz, The deep or in Sorrow’s Furnace.

I agree with OP, it is a nice step especially since the content in not forced on anyone through gear tiers for example. If you think, in the situation that the raid reward will be legendary armor pieces and not a precursor for a piece, that you are forced to do it because you want it, I would like to suggest that you are just jealous of people being better at a certain part of the content. Chances are a person who does not likes raids is at the moment not liking fractals/dungeons. Why would you NEED the new armor? For open world? It makes an galactic difference I am sure. For the QoL stat change? For where, again Open World? Since the only place that QoL would be useful is the content you do not play.

No more entitlement, more exclusivity. Let the only barrier that a casual player should met in this exclusivity, be its own stubbornness and refusal (on various reasons), and not because the game does not permit or if it does, it takes galactic effort.

Totally, 100% agree.

GW2 is a direct sequel to GW1. WoW is a spinoff of the Warcraft games.

Since the very beginning, GW2 was sold as the perfect game for GW1 players. Anet constantly praised its previous game and assured GW1 players that GW2 would have what they loved about GW1. When they introduced raids last Saturday, what did they do? They directly referenced GW1 elite missions as something GW2 raids should be like.

While GW2 is not meant to be a carbon copy of GW1, it is also not meant to be foreign to GW1 players. Features players loved in GW1 should definitely be brought over. I say this as someone who spent only a little time with the original game before the sequel came out and has played the sequel for a much larger amount of time.

I’m a casual as far as time goes with school but you can bet I’ll be in Those raids the first day I can. Lol I almost think casuals need to play at a higher level just due to the lack of time. If we go into raids and aren’t organized it’ll be a huge waste of the limited time we have. Let’s all get in there and make those raid bosses cry!

What I find likely is that the raids will be perceived as challenging only for a short time, after which they will be seen as too easy. The practice effect just about guarantees this, and that there will be broader access over time.

What we can hope is that the gameplay offers considerably more depth than stand-there-and-be-killed bosses. That way, even if seen as too easy, the fights can perhaps maintain some interest beyond being loot pinatas. Teq, even though viewed as mostly a pinata, is a more interesting fight than Shatt, say.

If I’m unlucky, there will be an overemphasis on platforming requirements to complete these fights. That might float some boats, but it would sink mine.

What i hope they do with raids is to make em hard but not overly time consuming in one get go, much like their new daily change to fractals. Once u master the tough mechanics it could take 30min. Thatd be great and certainly open the content to playertypes that dont have several hours every night for it.

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

I agree with OP, it is a nice step especially since the content in not forced on anyone through gear tiers for example. If you think, in the situation that the raid reward will be legendary armor pieces and not a precursor for a piece, that you are forced to do it because you want it, I would like to suggest that you are just jealous of people being better at a certain part of the content. Chances are a person who does not likes raids is at the moment not liking fractals/dungeons. Why would you NEED the new armor? For open world? It makes an galactic difference I am sure. For the QoL stat change? For where, again Open World? Since the only place that QoL would be useful is the content you do not play.

Nice try, but try again. I like both fractals and dungeons but think raids are a bad idea. Of course that is my problem, but maybe can also think this through:
Lets assume Anet choose to do this step, even after several promises in the past that they would not or only if they must, because numbers were low. There is no other reason to do it actually, because a raid probably meant a costly new production team.
Now we have a low number and a band aid to close the gapping owund of worn out players that leave or are so dense that they don´t even reach lvl 80, raids. People always asked for raids, marketing institutues probably picked on this trend, and so a probably unwarranted hype turned into a full blown strategy to gain customers, because the customer is always king and always right.
So lets further assume this band aid keeps some of the flowing blood inside in the form of old and defector from other games players, but oh my, the wound was right beside a crusty old wound that had healed, but the band aid rips of the crust and blood in the form of disgruntled players tickles, flows or gushes out, depending on how the number of casual gamers are and how much are willing to be stamped as casuals, pugs or second class citizens who have no right to get the best trinket without bending over and doing raids.
There is nothing in a fractal that you could not obtain elsewise that yo u can´t gain in another way, or is really worth to lose sleep about like a fractal skin. But a whole type of new armor with stats is completely another box, that should be reasonable to everyone.

At no point did they ever promise they wouldn’t add raids.

They promised they wouldn’t add a gear treadmill.

They’re not adding a gear treadmill.

Ascended is still, and will remain, BiS equipment.

People often forget that something does not become easy just because they have successfully raised their skill capabilities to a level on which they can perform a certain event to almost 100% success every time. It still is hard, you are just good enough.

Dungeons are still pretty super hard if compared to other MMO’s where they are only perceived hard because in the beginning you are by definition undergeared, when you come back to those yo can just face tank everything with just a few more shinies on.

GW2 dungeons still are hard, because almost everything will just kill you pretty quick, unless you skillfully perform adequate counter-measures, such as deep-freezing spider queen and make her blow up.

Luckily all GW2 dungeons also come with a skip-mechanic for those that just want to speed run or speed farm for the end-reward golds.
Additionally they all come with an easy-mode escape for all those are just not interested or incapable of learning game mechanics: Use the mighty Meta-Stack or just one of the many cheesy exploits to get everything go splat if you prefer to play it that way.
For example most people prefer just stack-dodging Subject Alpha but are not aware that you can actually take him on with super no risk and ZERO dodging required, if you have the right plan and ppl that are able to follow it. In fact 4 ppl can just stand still for the whole fight while 1 person walks left/right whenever an ice field comes up.
Yet this will only happen if you are not stacking on each other.

So dungeons are challenging and still you can choose to play them the easy mode.
Working perfectly from my point of view.

- whether you played GW1 or not is completely irrelevant. It does not give your opinion and preferences any weight – at all. This here is another game.
- the scenario you hope for will never come true. When raids will be implemented, they will either be mindnumbingly easy or there will be so much complaining here that soon they will be toned down to a level even an average GW2 player can succeed in without a relevant risk of failing. Face the facts: You (and I) are a dying breed. In the gaming industry, casual gamers are the thing that matters now. You will find less and less games that will meet your preferences. Gaming will become like watching soap operas: Effortless, meaningless, shallow enterntainment without the thrill and great satisfaction of overcoming real obstacles.

TheDuck.4526:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Some “casuals” enjoy difficult challenges too. Please stop equating “casual” to “bad” or “easy mode” for kittens sake. Many of us do not appreciate it.

This x1000. You can still be casual and good at the game. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I’ll still be casual, but also enjoying the raid content. And if I can’t find the time to commit to it, then I won’t feel entitled to the rewards. Let people have their shiny trophies and achievements for actual achievements. The game has so few of them.

Let me echo that sentiment.

Dungeons can not be both challenging and have an “easy mode” that hands out the same reward.

That leads to the lackluster rewards they have now, which were nerfed in to the ground because you have to balance rewards around the most efficient method of completion.

That’s not working perfectly. That’s the definition of broken content. it was just made less rewarding in stead of being fixed to offer a challenge that is appropriate for the reward because it takes less effort to tweak a loot table than it does to alter encounter mechanics.

PopeUrban.2578:

Dungeons can not be both challenging and have an “easy mode” that hands out the same reward.

That leads to the lackluster rewards they have now, which were nerfed in to the ground because you have to balance rewards around the most efficient method of completion.

That’s not working perfectly. That’s the definition of broken content. it was just made less rewarding in stead of being fixed to offer a challenge that is appropriate for the reward because it takes less effort to tweak a loot table than it does to alter encounter mechanics.

You are right there in the fact that yes any reward that might impact the auction house cannot be the same for different modes.
So yeah I agree at least the gold reward portion of dungeon tracks i kinda broken.
Though I don’t have any problem with peeps on easy mode getting the dungeon armour at the same number of dungeon completions. I know this statement give many people the heart attacks, but honestly I really think everyone should get their shiny based on “completed something i liked and got my shiny” not depending on the time it took them to get it. Some people also just do not only want something early they really want something exclusive to themselves and that would be best done by just offering custom armour models for the amount of real world cash that it costs to make one.
Actually since GW2 now loads character equipment models lazy in the background, having true unique amour for some rich peeps that really want it a pretty cool and probably lucrative service. And I’d like to see what peeps will order as their personal armour. Man I miss that dancing bare chested mustache Norn in front of old LA’s bank.

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

Torolan.5816:

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

I agree with OP, it is a nice step especially since the content in not forced on anyone through gear tiers for example. If you think, in the situation that the raid reward will be legendary armor pieces and not a precursor for a piece, that you are forced to do it because you want it, I would like to suggest that you are just jealous of people being better at a certain part of the content. Chances are a person who does not likes raids is at the moment not liking fractals/dungeons. Why would you NEED the new armor? For open world? It makes an galactic difference I am sure. For the QoL stat change? For where, again Open World? Since the only place that QoL would be useful is the content you do not play.

Nice try, but try again. I like both fractals and dungeons but think raids are a bad idea. Of course that is my problem, but maybe can also think this through:
Lets assume Anet choose to do this step, even after several promises in the past that they would not or only if they must, because numbers were low. There is no other reason to do it actually, because a raid probably meant a costly new production team.
Now we have a low number and a band aid to close the gapping owund of worn out players that leave or are so dense that they don´t even reach lvl 80, raids. People always asked for raids, marketing institutues probably picked on this trend, and so a probably unwarranted hype turned into a full blown strategy to gain customers, because the customer is always king and always right.
So lets further assume this band aid keeps some of the flowing blood inside in the form of old and defector from other games players, but oh my, the wound was right beside a crusty old wound that had healed, but the band aid rips of the crust and blood in the form of disgruntled players tickles, flows or gushes out, depending on how the number of casual gamers are and how much are willing to be stamped as casuals, pugs or second class citizens who have no right to get the best trinket without bending over and doing raids.
There is nothing in a fractal that you could not obtain elsewise that yo u can´t gain in another way, or is really worth to lose sleep about like a fractal skin. But a whole type of new armor with stats is completely another box, that should be reasonable to everyone.

Try what? You didn’t even say. The simple fact that you consider this new in game content from the perspective of a wound speaks that you are just an extremist in my book. Content is not in game, it is new, yet you are so sure it will cause some sort of nuclear fallout. Trend? What trend? Give some evidence for your claims.

“There is nothing in a fractal that you could not obtain elsewise that yo u can´t gain in another way, or is really worth to lose sleep about like a fractal skin.” You do fractals for the skins and the tonic. Of course you forgot about the prestige of the tonic but you made sure to include “not worth” regarding the fractals skins. While they are the only reason people do fractals. And then you say fractals does not offer anything unique. Wow, what a conclusion who would have expected that!

“But a whole type of new armor with stats is completely another box, that should be reasonable to everyone.” = entitlement over an armor that offer only a QoL feature only worth it from any POV in the content that you detest so much. Also every armor has stats.

Have a good day! Next please.

Try again to make people think that if you are for example a fractal person, you are also liking dungeons and raids. I thight that would be clear, but was probably not clear enough, my bad.

So you believe that Anet made Raids because they are not in trouble somehow? If they did not have pressure from upper management or the numbers of customers were low, why bind the new stone of raids around your neck when you can barely carry the stones of wvw, pvp and pve all at once? I already stated the reason why I believe that with the expensive production.

And yes, you are right, your numbers are as good as mine. I did also not say that my statement is the truth, I just asked you to consider the scenario and ask yourself if it is reasonable.

Wow, that is something I really did not expect to appear here, doing fractals for the prestige or the tonic. I do fractals with my guild mates. I have gotten exactly 2 fractal skins(Shortbow and Rifle) in my 800+ runs. If we ever meet in lions arch by chance, take a look at my guardian if you want. He carries his fractal back for ages, but you´ll see that it does not shine or sparkle, and never will as I think of this as unwarranted waste of money and ressources. I most of the time forget that the tonic even exists. So don´t tell me I do fractals for prestige.

Entitlement? If it has the same stats as ascended and I don´t like the raiding content after testing it, there is not a single reason for me to try to collect it as I, a casual type of content loving open world pug, had the time to walk all through Tyria and collect my stuff.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Some “casuals” enjoy difficult challenges too. Please stop equating “casual” to “bad” or “easy mode” for kittens sake. Many of us do not appreciate it.

Not going to happen it’s patented elitism claptrap. Typical that most people need to try and build themselves up by tearing others down and this caters to the worst of that demographic.

Dante.1763:

TheDuck.4526:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Some “casuals” enjoy difficult challenges too. Please stop equating “casual” to “bad” or “easy mode” for kittens sake. Many of us do not appreciate it.

This x1000. You can still be casual and good at the game. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I’ll still be casual, but also enjoying the raid content. And if I can’t find the time to commit to it, then I won’t feel entitled to the rewards. Let people have their shiny trophies and achievements for actual achievements. The game has so few of them.

Let me echo that sentiment.

yea I plan on being a casual rocking legendary armor goml

it will actually be pretty funny to have the same gear as the people who spend 12 hours a day on the game. Having killed the same bosses, equipping the same legendaries, etc. as a casual will be funny. When people assume im super hard core it will be fun to say that im actually pretty bad at this game but the content is so easy its hard NOT to have this legendary gear. Those people will have a hard time sleeping at night lol

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

Knighthonor.4061:

This not GW1 though. Thats like saying Warcraft fans should have say so in the direction of World of Warcraft gameplay. ..

Try more. Both GW 1 and GW 2 share the same universe, names, ideas, thematic s, lore, both are online required for play games. The creators are the same and still here, many prominent employees (field is irrelevant) are still the same since 10 years ago. List can go on and on. Guild Wars 1 was a hard game. An average GW 2 player would quit after 2 days. The game was and still is as of today very easy after the introduction of heroes, PvE only elites and title skills/buffs along with consumables. But before that we would cry in FoW, UW, Urgoz, The deep or in Sorrow’s Furnace.

I agree with OP, it is a nice step especially since the content in not forced on anyone through gear tiers for example. If you think, in the situation that the raid reward will be legendary armor pieces and not a precursor for a piece, that you are forced to do it because you want it, I would like to suggest that you are just jealous of people being better at a certain part of the content. Chances are a person who does not likes raids is at the moment not liking fractals/dungeons. Why would you NEED the new armor? For open world? It makes an galactic difference I am sure. For the QoL stat change? For where, again Open World? Since the only place that QoL would be useful is the content you do not play.

No more entitlement, more exclusivity. Let the only barrier that a casual player should met in this exclusivity, be its own stubbornness and refusal (on various reasons), and not because the game does not permit or if it does, it takes galactic effort.

Those are my exact thoughts, I don’t want to bash any1 but just to look pretty you don’t need to have legendary weapon and armor, IT?S YOUR CHOICE, and if you choose that, you better work your butt for it! And that’s how it should be

Look, I think people are taking this a bit too far in the idea of “yeah! screw casuals!”

I don’t see it as that, just right now, Raids are the FIRST to get the unique legendary armor. Do you people really believe there will ONLY be one set of legendary armor for each armor type? Somehow, I really really doubt it.

Spvp has some unique rewards only available to spvp. Which is fine. Raids will have their own now. Somehow, I wouldn’t be surprised down the road that fractals may get some unique rewards, crafting get some unique rewards, long quest chains (ala the legendary crafting), and so on.

Its just right now, raids are first.

Algreg.3629:

- whether you played GW1 or not is completely irrelevant. It does not give your opinion and preferences any weight – at all. This here is another game.
- the scenario you hope for will never come true. When raids will be implemented, they will either be mindnumbingly easy or there will be so much complaining here that soon they will be toned down to a level even an average GW2 player can succeed in without a relevant risk of failing. Face the facts: You (and I) are a dying breed. In the gaming industry, casual gamers are the thing that matters now. You will find less and less games that will meet your preferences. Gaming will become like watching soap operas: Effortless, meaningless, shallow enterntainment without the thrill and great satisfaction of overcoming real obstacles.

I hope that you’re going to be proven wrong, because as Colin said, this will not get tuned down, if you cannot catchup with the changes and advanced level, you shouldn’t be on the first place, and your place are fractals and dungeons to start with, so your idea of enforcing casualty is false. I did stick with Anet for so long, and I did believe that one day we will get challenging content, and on Oct23 we will see, if my time waiting for it was worth or not. Only time could tell.

Gorisek.2678:

and on Oct23 we will see

Just a reminder that the first raid will NOT go live with HoT. They’ve not said how long you’ll have to wait, but there will be a wait.

I’m guessing that they want to make sure they nail down any bugs that would allow people to skip past or cheese the content of the raid, before they give people a shot at it.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Some “casuals” enjoy difficult challenges too. Please stop equating “casual” to “bad” or “easy mode” for kittens sake. Many of us do not appreciate it.

Not going to happen it’s patented elitism claptrap. Typical that most people need to try and build themselves up by tearing others down and this caters to the worst of that demographic.

No, it is just fact. By definition casuals put less time into the game and thus less time to get better or to practice.

It was honestly a really good step up by Guild Wars so many players have come back on! Its great to see.

dom.2748:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Some “casuals” enjoy difficult challenges too. Please stop equating “casual” to “bad” or “easy mode” for kittens sake. Many of us do not appreciate it.

Not going to happen it’s patented elitism claptrap. Typical that most people need to try and build themselves up by tearing others down and this caters to the worst of that demographic.

No, it is just fact. By definition casuals put less time into the game and thus less time to get better or to practice.

Ahh but then you have players who were hardcore that play less but who are exceptional at the game in the short time they have to play it.

if raiding is done like dungeons then it won’t.
people will find ways to exploit and bug everything out and it will be easy mode like everything else is because of exploiters.
and Anet will nerf all rewards so it is useless to do it as intended; and you will be forced to exploit 24/7, get zero reward/hour ratio, or not run at all….

due to the extreme exploitation the game is laughebly easy in it’s core.
people never learn to actually play and all they learn is how to exploit.

which in return means any one that likes the challenge, or just the fun of the designed and intended gameplay will leave/have already left…

this game BADLY need a “no exploit policy /exploiters will be banned twice then perma banned”; and starting to fix all the exploitable area’s of the game.
but won’t happen since if the devs had a mindset which considered long term good gameplay, they wouldnt have allowed the exploitation to get this bad with ZERO effort to stop or punish it for several years now.

so conclusion:
expect easy mode trash exploiting gameplay with wierd “gimmick” progression that have no other purpose then arbitrary creating grind for each raid to pass some arbitrary unpassable terrain unless you unlocked mastery x -.-

dom.2748:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Some “casuals” enjoy difficult challenges too. Please stop equating “casual” to “bad” or “easy mode” for kittens sake. Many of us do not appreciate it.

Not going to happen it’s patented elitism claptrap. Typical that most people need to try and build themselves up by tearing others down and this caters to the worst of that demographic.

No, it is just fact. By definition casuals put less time into the game and thus less time to get better or to practice.

n.
a person who does something irregularly.

Note the “definition” doesn’t say “without skill.” If you think it takes 5000+ hours to be elite at GW2, that’s severely incorrect. Even an old debate in psychology about “expertise,” which used to be defined as “10 or more years,” has been more or less debunked.

I’m sure there are players with less time in their /age than me that would destroy my skill level, because they actively seek out challenges. Which is what matters. If you’re merely “practicing,” you’re wasting time.

So, yeah, casual =/= unskilled. Get over it.

dom.2748:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Some “casuals” enjoy difficult challenges too. Please stop equating “casual” to “bad” or “easy mode” for kittens sake. Many of us do not appreciate it.

Not going to happen it’s patented elitism claptrap. Typical that most people need to try and build themselves up by tearing others down and this caters to the worst of that demographic.

No, it is just fact. By definition casuals put less time into the game and thus less time to get better or to practice.

casual is a term for people that don’t want to put in the effort, but just wanna have fun without anything that makes them put effort into it which isnt immidiately entertaining or rewarding.
often these are grouped with exploiters, cheaters, hackers, or people that just don’t care enough for it. (very much an instant/fast satisfaction thing which doesn’t have much “pride/honor”(in lack of a better english term) for how they accomplish this.)
casuals makes up the VAST majority of a gaming community, which is also why if you let them do what they want they will screw up the long term of the games (in general, since their focus is short term)

hardcore is a term for people that put in the extra effort (which is rarely very fun, but nessesary if you truly interest you in the long term: often these are maximizers).
this would be meta gaming, insane amount of hours to specificly train aspects of the game. doing spreadsheets, figuring out the mathematical formula’s for ingame stuff. using the time to optimize strategise statistically (again most of that is done in a spreadsheet). training rotations for hours (AFTER doing the teori of how it is done best), which is quite boring (the pro-gamer thing, which most people don’t understand is learning/training which is NOT fun, it is hard work). etc. etc. etc.
hardcore players actually use very High amount of their free time(hours for gaming) planning their playsession instead of actually playing the game itself.

most people that consider themselves hardcore got no clue what hardcore gaming is. just because they play 10 hours a day doesn’t make them a “hardcore player”.
true if you invest 10hours playing the game each day, you are more likely to be amongst the hardcore group
(since people investing vast amount of time planning game sessions etc. oftend use vast amongst of time in the game as well)
but it is no garantee and your active gaming hours isn’t what determines if you are a hardcore or casual gamer at all.
(for hardcore gamers it is 50% a job and 50% a game: and the vast majority of hardcore gamers are gaming addicts. which is pretty logical considering their lifestyle/extreme interest in games :P )

dom.2748:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Some “casuals” enjoy difficult challenges too. Please stop equating “casual” to “bad” or “easy mode” for kittens sake. Many of us do not appreciate it.

Not going to happen it’s patented elitism claptrap. Typical that most people need to try and build themselves up by tearing others down and this caters to the worst of that demographic.

No, it is just fact. By definition casuals put less time into the game and thus less time to get better or to practice.

Time spent doesn’t directly correlate to skill quality. Just because someone puts less time into the game doesn’t mean they suck. Doesn’t mean they lack skill. Conversely, it also doesn’t mean that someone that plays for 8 hours a day is good either.

djsarcher.9263:

I’m happy for you.

I’m a casual myself, and don’t see any appeal to dungeons, fractals, or raids, so I just hope there will be ways for me to obtain the new shinies like the Legendary Weapons and Armor without having to pug, it’s a nightmare for my main Ranger.

I hope you will have time to raid with your friends, because it shouldn’t be time-consuming, just the learning curve would be slower. And I hope your ranger shines in the new raids.

Erebus.7568:

dom.2748:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Some “casuals” enjoy difficult challenges too. Please stop equating “casual” to “bad” or “easy mode” for kittens sake. Many of us do not appreciate it.

Not going to happen it’s patented elitism claptrap. Typical that most people need to try and build themselves up by tearing others down and this caters to the worst of that demographic.

No, it is just fact. By definition casuals put less time into the game and thus less time to get better or to practice.

casual is a term for people that don’t want to put in the effort.
aka exploiters, cheaters, hackers, or people that just don’t care enough for it.

hardcore is a term for people that put in the effort.
this would be meta gaming, insane amount of hours to specificly train aspects of the game. doing spreadsheets, figuring out the mathematical formula’s for ingame stuff. using the time to optimize strategise statistically (again most of that is done in a spreadsheet). etc.
hardcore players actually use very High amount of their free time(hours for gaming) planning their playsession instead of actually playing the game itself.

most people that consider themselves hardcore got no clue what hardcore gaming is. just because they play 10 hours a day doesn’t make them a “hardcore player”.
true if you invest 10hours playing the game each day, you are more likely to be amongst the hardcore group
(since people investing vast amount of time planning game sessions etc. oftend use vast amongst of time in the game as well)
but it is no garantee and your active gaming hours isn’t what determines if you are a hardcore or casual gamer at all.

No…. casual is a term for people who put in less TIME not effort. When I play with my 2-3 hours I get a day (if im very lucky) I am optimizing everything I can to make my character better to be the best it can be. I hate the feeling that I could be better and that theres something I am unware of that im not taking advantage of. Granted, my lack of time isnt due to lack of interest, im just about to graduate and my classes are really requiring most of my time.

dom.2748:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

dom.2748:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Some “casuals” enjoy difficult challenges too. Please stop equating “casual” to “bad” or “easy mode” for kittens sake. Many of us do not appreciate it.

Not going to happen it’s patented elitism claptrap. Typical that most people need to try and build themselves up by tearing others down and this caters to the worst of that demographic.

No, it is just fact. By definition casuals put less time into the game and thus less time to get better or to practice.

Time spent doesn’t directly correlate to skill quality. Just because someone puts less time into the game doesn’t mean they suck. Doesn’t mean they lack skill. Conversely, it also doesn’t mean that someone that plays for 8 hours a day is good either.

Then it is a good thing that I said they put less time in and not that they suck. Maybe you have a guilty conscience about sucking?

must…fight…down…snarky….response….not….G…..rated! UGH!

“casuals put less time into the game” → “less time to get better”
“less time” → “not as skilled”
“less time” → “suck”

Is it really that hard to get from point a to point b? You didn’t say it that way, but that’s not the point (and really, I’m obviously not the only one that took it that way). Others have expressed very similar perspectives (we’re had any number of threads arguing that casual != bad) in precisely those terms. I was addressing all you at one time. You just happened to be the person that got the quote for the sake of argument.

As for my personal skill level, shrug, I’m not a professional pvp player by any stretch. Conversely I’m not dead on the ground more often than not in other content, either. So, do I suck? Depends on what I’m doing. I’m better at some things, worse at others, and then there are some things I just don’t care about.

I doubt the raids are going to be on the same level as heroic 10-man firefighter mimiron style encounters. GW2 has a massive casual playerbase, even the ‘difficult’ raids/fotms will cater for a large amount of the playerbase. It simply doesn’t make sense to focus so much of their development resource on something a small amount of players will gravitate towards; we have seen this approach plenty of times from anet.

Erebus.7568:

casual is a term for people that don’t want to put in the effort, but just wanna have fun without anything that makes them put effort into it which isnt immidiately entertaining or rewarding.
often these are grouped with exploiters, cheaters, hackers, or people that just don’t care enough for it.

hardcore is a term for people that put in the effort.
this would be meta gaming, insane amount of hours to specificly train aspects of the game. doing spreadsheets, figuring out the mathematical formula’s for ingame stuff. using the time to optimize strategise statistically (again most of that is done in a spreadsheet). etc.
hardcore players actually use very High amount of their free time(hours for gaming) planning their playsession instead of actually playing the game itself.

Excuse me?

In this game and others, I’ve known both hardcore and casual players. Of the two, in every game it has ALWAYS been the “hardcore” players that are more likely and willing to hack, cheat, and exploit.

Why? It’s simple, really. Hardcore players are more likely to be driven by rewards and obtaining them is their main goal. Casuals are more likely to be enjoying the game itself, not the rewards.

Look at dungeons. A casual may run one a few times, then move on when it gets dull. But a hardcore will find the one that’s the best for rewards, and grind on it. Hone their skill until they’ve got it down pat and there’s no real challenge left, to make sure they don’t waste time by failing a run. They run it until it becomes boring, a chore. Then someone says “Hey, jump up here and run along this wall, and you’ll glitch through and skip some of the fights!”, and that sounds good to them. They’re tired of that fight, so they do the glitch and skip it. It’s just how people work.

Zalavaaris.5329:

Erebus.7568:

dom.2748:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Some “casuals” enjoy difficult challenges too. Please stop equating “casual” to “bad” or “easy mode” for kittens sake. Many of us do not appreciate it.

Not going to happen it’s patented elitism claptrap. Typical that most people need to try and build themselves up by tearing others down and this caters to the worst of that demographic.

No, it is just fact. By definition casuals put less time into the game and thus less time to get better or to practice.

casual is a term for people that don’t want to put in the effort.
aka exploiters, cheaters, hackers, or people that just don’t care enough for it.

hardcore is a term for people that put in the effort.
this would be meta gaming, insane amount of hours to specificly train aspects of the game. doing spreadsheets, figuring out the mathematical formula’s for ingame stuff. using the time to optimize strategise statistically (again most of that is done in a spreadsheet). etc.
hardcore players actually use very High amount of their free time(hours for gaming) planning their playsession instead of actually playing the game itself.

most people that consider themselves hardcore got no clue what hardcore gaming is. just because they play 10 hours a day doesn’t make them a “hardcore player”.
true if you invest 10hours playing the game each day, you are more likely to be amongst the hardcore group
(since people investing vast amount of time planning game sessions etc. oftend use vast amongst of time in the game as well)
but it is no garantee and your active gaming hours isn’t what determines if you are a hardcore or casual gamer at all.

No…. casual is a term for people who put in less TIME not effort.

NOPE it is not.
a good handfull of Pro gamers actually turned pro after only a few months of gaming.
by your difinition these players would be casuals because they haven’t put in enough time yet.

on the other hand you have players using 10 hours a day on a game, yet they do not know how to do a good build, how to play the mechanics of the game, or how to even home/train your skills within a particular aspect of the game.
but you would call these players hardcore players?

time have NOTHING to do with weather or not you are a casual or hardcore player.
neither does RL skills in that particular game.
what makes you hardcore is the effort you invest in the game, outside the game, meaning the effort you put into arquiring knowledge beyound the normal play session.

but as said the VAST majority of casual gamers see’s themselve as hardcore gamers^^
the statement “i am hardcore because i play a lot” is a statement casuals use because they can’t accept that they are just another casual having fun in the game, and not part of the hardcore which actually invest huge amount of effort into understanding everything about the game, optimizing it and themselves to become the best they could in it.

Erebus.7568:

Zalavaaris.5329:

Erebus.7568:

dom.2748:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Some “casuals” enjoy difficult challenges too. Please stop equating “casual” to “bad” or “easy mode” for kittens sake. Many of us do not appreciate it.

Not going to happen it’s patented elitism claptrap. Typical that most people need to try and build themselves up by tearing others down and this caters to the worst of that demographic.

No, it is just fact. By definition casuals put less time into the game and thus less time to get better or to practice.

casual is a term for people that don’t want to put in the effort.
aka exploiters, cheaters, hackers, or people that just don’t care enough for it.

hardcore is a term for people that put in the effort.
this would be meta gaming, insane amount of hours to specificly train aspects of the game. doing spreadsheets, figuring out the mathematical formula’s for ingame stuff. using the time to optimize strategise statistically (again most of that is done in a spreadsheet). etc.
hardcore players actually use very High amount of their free time(hours for gaming) planning their playsession instead of actually playing the game itself.

most people that consider themselves hardcore got no clue what hardcore gaming is. just because they play 10 hours a day doesn’t make them a “hardcore player”.
true if you invest 10hours playing the game each day, you are more likely to be amongst the hardcore group
(since people investing vast amount of time planning game sessions etc. oftend use vast amongst of time in the game as well)
but it is no garantee and your active gaming hours isn’t what determines if you are a hardcore or casual gamer at all.

No…. casual is a term for people who put in less TIME not effort.

NOPE it is not.
a good handfull of Pro gamers actually turned pro after only a few months of gaming.
by your difinition these players would be casuals because they haven’t put in enough time yet.

on the other hand you have players using 10 hours a day on a game, yet they do not know how to do a good build, how to play the mechanics of the game, or how to even home/train your skills within a particular aspect of the game.
but you would call these players hardcore players?

time have NOTHING to do with weather or not you are a casual or hardcore player.
neither does RL skills in that particular game.
what makes you hardcore is the effort you invest in the game, outside the game, meaning the effort you put into arquiring knowledge beyound the normal play session.

but as said the VAST majority of casual gamers see’s themselve as hardcore gamers^^
the statement “i am hardcore because i play a lot” is a statement casuals use because they can’t accept that they are just another casual having fun in the game, and not part of the hardcore which actually invest huge amount of effort into understanding everything about the game, optimizing it and themselves to become the best they could in it.

Youre arguing in circles. Hardcore =/= good and casual =/= bad. Guess what… those pro gamers who dont put much time into their games are VERY GOOD casuals… skill means nothing when it comes to hard core and casual but honestly. Im dont talking to you about it because as a casual, I have more important things to do in order to avoid the inevitable “would you like fries with that” job. Enjoy your gaming.