Guild Wars 2

want to avoid a long read? here you go! this game doesnt allow me to create my own path, or my own legend. it doesnt allow me to branch off the repetitive rinse and repeat content of this game. what i want from any game i play is to create my own path and follow my own legend. in this game i am nothing more than a grey blob just like everybody else. that bothers me. i cant see myself doing anything different from what everybody else is doing, not even a little bit. lol maybe if i give an extra hop in a jumping puzzle? or i am more successful than my team in a fight? lol, there isnt much of a difference between me and everybody else….at all.

the game does not offer players to adopt an individualistic role in the game. this game puts no value in individuality, it puts all its focus on team-based activities. therefore, leaving mediocre tasks that offer reward to the lone individual, which is every single player, unless the player has a team to play with ever single day for the whole time they are online. the same is said for the game’s PVP, the lack of value put in individuality and individual manifestation of skill for classes are really bad. each class forces a role on every player who plays the class, which really narrows your options and forces you to play with a team if you want to even participate in it’s pvp. it narrows your options even more when the game forces a SPECIFIC build on every player, which essentially annihilates the option of trying to create a build to begin with. sadly, since players are forced to play a role for every class, they also will not be able to compete in another field outside that SPECIFIC expertise. therefore you will never be able to do anything and be good, or at even grounds in terms of individual skill, with any other class. overall the PVE and PVP has no individualistic perspective put into its creation. i urge and even warn the developers to stop this group mentality for everything they do, if they want the game to really pick up. group mentality is good in a game, but it also needs a big chunk of individual value in it.

let’s be honest, the main idea behind the expansion has previous work put into it, but the content and everything besides the main idea was kinda rushed. please guys, no more rushing, focus on what has value. ik you guys listen to your fans, dont change that trait, it’s what has kept your company alive, it wasnt luck, it was an open mind.

EDIT: even if you are GREAT and have great potential, it is all destroyed when you are forced into a specific and very LIMITED role of gameplay.

In Addition: i have several level 80s, but what if i want my guardian to go toe-to-toe with a thief? its impossible, complete disadvantage. i want the specific skills for classes to remain, but i want those skills to be useful in a broader sense, as in, it would be wise to allow EACH and every class to stand its own ground versus all other classes. hence, balancing out the playing field. also, an official 1vs1 or 2vs2 option in pvp and pve would be NIIIICE?

IN REPLY TO A PLAYER ASKING ME TO EXPLAIN MORE : very well said. ok i will explain my feelings towards this a bit further. when i play i dont feel i put myself into the activities i do. everything is narrowed down to what the developers force upon me. when i play, everything ends up going in a circle, SPVP, fractals, dungeons, world bosses, etc….then rinse and repeat. understand? where is the individualism in that? of course, you add your own individualistic aspects in everything you do, but where can i be freely me in what I DECIDE TO DO?? i cant become individually good in SPVP, its impossible, there is no 1v1 and no 2v2 emphasis on it. in WVW, its a different story, but regardless, when you get a fight in which both are around the same skill level and have the exact same armor, can you say that any class you are using will have a fair chance of beating the other class? classes in this game are sort of set in stone. most players find themselves doing exactly what is constructed by ANET for you to do, there is no straying from that. if there was more individuality then maybe i could put importance into pvp and eventually maybe even create a guild with divisions in which people learn under more experienced player. sadly, there isnt enough culture in this game for that, its all based on a rinse and repeat structure which really demotivates me.

basically what i am saying is that this game needs a lot more variation so i dont feel like a robot when i play it =/. im sure a lot of people feel the same way, even if they dont realize it. “why does it feel grindy”, “i got bored after i hit lvl80”, “when my friends stopped i just quit”. well its because this game forces a robotic form of gameplay into its playerbase, and i think it needsm uch more variation.

Imo, for a pve focused game you can’t expect pvp to be so balanced, to every build or class be equally good against any other. Anet wanted it like that, wanted every class to have the ability to play all roles, and it didn’t went very well (overwhelming majority of useless traits, stats, gear….). At first, I was excited about the idea of freedom of build, but it turned out to be “Jack of all trades, master of none.”
Plus, how can it be balanced when they mostly focused on rushing new insignificant stories past 2 years. Still, abilities are more balanced for pvp than antyhing else.
I agree with the lack of ‘’value put in individuality and individual manifestation of skill’’ tho. It ultimately killed my motivation to even play, but Anet seems to be happy, constantly praising brainless and skilless, chest collecting community they created.

Paciunek.2496:

Imo, for a pve focused game you can’t expect pvp to be so balanced, to every build or class be equally good against any other. Anet wanted it like that, wanted every class to have the ability to play all roles, and it didn’t went very well (overwhelming majority of useless traits, stats, gear….). At first, I was excited about the idea of freedom of build, but it turned out to be “Jack of all trades, master of none.”
Plus, how can it be balanced when they mostly focused on rushing new insignificant stories past 2 years. Still, abilities are more balanced for pvp than antyhing else.
I agree with the lack of ‘’value put in individuality and individual manifestation of skill’’ tho. It ultimately killed my motivation to even play, but Anet seems to be happy, constantly praising brainless and skilless, chest collecting community they created.

your not really stating anything. its a PVE focused game that wants players to go pro and compete for grand cash prices???? jack of all traits master of none? how about master of a class that can also stand its own ground versus all the other classes which should also be “masters” of their class? Anet was not happy due to a rushed expansion. if clients are not happy, i am sure a huge company with a rep to maintain wont be happy either, hence the continued change in the direction Anet is taking. anyways i understand your lack of motivation…i have been also left with none.

Where are you coming from saying the clients are not happy? Did you look at their sales record? Can you back that up with something other than the voices of the few forum goers?

You’re a minority. The game is successful. It’s not changing anytime soon.

zoejo.2317:

Where are you coming from saying the clients are not happy? Did you look at their sales record? Can you back that up with something other than the voices of the few forum goers?

You’re a minority. The game is successful. It’s not changing anytime soon.

your putting words into my mouth. re-read. also, please dont take minorities out of the equation, its quite bad to do so. on top of that, what part of “Anet continues to change the direction of the game” slipped past you? i would be happy to explain. you seem to not understand the bigger picture. please restate what you said more constructively so i can better discuss the topic with you.

Edit: what is funny is that your perspective might actually be the “minority” in this subject. anyways may i ask what argument are you willing to discuss? what evidence must be presented to someone who isnt saying anything? to ask me to back it up (i would guess u mean evidence), then present nothing, but a poorly constructed opinion?

There’s absolutely 0 grind in this game. People confuse farming with grinding. I’ll probably keep repeating that across multiple threads until people get that into their heads

Adry.7512:

the game does not offer players to adopt an individualistic role in the game. this game puts no value in individuality, it puts all its focus on team-based activities. therefore, leaving mediocre tasks that offer reward to the lone individual, which is every single player, unless the player has a team to play with ever single day for the whole time they are online.

very very wrong. everything is solo playable (minus few things but that is stated that is ment for pure teamplay e.g. fractals)

The game is catering especially for both type of players.

If this is a serious topic, perhaps you, the OP, would like to state what you mean by an “individualistic role.” Bear in mind that this is an MMO, and that some content, indeed some entire game modes, are based around group play. In such a game, it makes sense that some things will require multiple players.

Players do play alone sometimes. Many solo PvE and exploration. Some solo dungeons, the ultimate small group PvE content. Some solo roam in WvW, the large scale PvP mode. Others hold points in PvP, while the rest of their team does other things.

So, how are these things not individualistic? If you can make a case why, then you would also need to provide an idea of what an individualistic role would look like. Because, frankly, while there may be a clear idea in your head, it did not make it into this thread.

The examples given in the OP create confusion. About the only thing clear and constructive there is the request for 1v1 and 2v2 PvP. As to the Guardian v. Thief complaint, I have to wonder what this is in aid of. I’ve killed thieves on a guard, and been killed by them. The difference in those fights was skill. There’s also complaints about rewards, and a statement about lack of individuality within professions. All of this needs to be expanded on so others can tell what you’re saying. I’m not prepared to decide one way or the other about your complaints, and I do think some clarification is in order if you wish the topic to be taken seriously.

The beta portal is grinding.

IndigoSundown.5419:

If this is a serious topic, perhaps you, the OP, would like to state what you mean by an “individualistic role.” Bear in mind that this is an MMO, and that some content, indeed some entire game modes, are based around group play. In such a game, it makes sense that some things will require multiple players.

Players do play alone sometimes. Many solo PvE and exploration. Some solo dungeons, the ultimate small group PvE content. Some solo roam in WvW, the large scale PvP mode. Others hold points in PvP, while the rest of their team does other things.

So, how are these things not individualistic? If you can make a case why, then you would also need to provide an idea of what an individualistic role would look like. Because, frankly, while there may be a clear idea in your head, it did not make it into this thread.

The examples given in the OP create confusion. About the only thing clear and constructive there is the request for 1v1 and 2v2 PvP. As to the Guardian v. Thief complaint, I have to wonder what this is in aid of. I’ve killed thieves on a guard, and been killed by them. The difference in those fights was skill. There’s also complaints about rewards, and a statement about lack of individuality within professions. All of this needs to be expanded on so others can tell what you’re saying. I’m not prepared to decide one way or the other about your complaints, and I do think some clarification is in order if you wish the topic to be taken seriously.

very well said. ok i will explain my feelings towards this a bit further. when i play i dont feel i put myself into the activities i do. everything is narrowed down to what the developers force upon me. when i play, everything ends up going in a circle, SPVP, fractals, dungeons, world bosses, etc….then rinse and repeat. understand? where is the individualism in that? of course, you add your own individualistic aspects in everything you do, but where can i be freely me in what I DECIDE TO DO?? i cant become individually good in SPVP, its impossible, there is no 1v1 and no 2v2 emphasis on it. in WVW, its a different story, but regardless, when you get a fight in which both are around the same skill level and have the exact same armor, can you say that any class you are using will have a fair chance of beating the other class? classes in this game are sort of set in stone. most players find themselves doing exactly what is constructed by ANET for you to do, there is no straying from that. if there was more individuality then maybe i could put importance into pvp and eventually maybe even create a guild with divisions in which people learn under more experienced player. sadly, there isnt enough culture in this game for that, its all based on a rinse and repeat structure which really demotivates me.

basically what i am saying is that this game needs a lot more variation so i dont feel like a robot when i play it =/. im sure a lot of people feel the same way, even if they dont realize it. “why does it feel grindy”, “i got bored after i hit lvl80”, “when my friends stopped i just quit”. well its because this game forces a robotic form of gameplay into its playerbase, and i think it needsm uch more variation.

Adry.7512:

the game does not offer players to adopt an individualistic role in the game. this game puts no value in individuality, it puts all its focus on team-based activities. therefore, leaving mediocre tasks that offer reward to the lone individual, which is every single player, unless the player has a team to play with ever single day for the whole time they are online. the same is said for the game’s PVP, the lack of value put in individuality and individual manifestation of skill for classes are really bad. each class forces a role on every player who plays the class, which really narrows your options and forces you to play with a team if you want to even participate in it’s pvp. it narrows your options even more when the game forces a SPECIFIC build on every player, which essentially annihilates the option of trying to create a build to begin with. sadly, since players are forced to play a role for every class, they also will not be able to compete in another field outside that SPECIFIC expertise. therefore you will never be able to do anything and be good, or at even grounds in terms of individual skill, with any other class. overall the PVE and PVP has no individualistic perspective put into its creation. i urge and even warn the developers to stop this group mentality for everything they do, if they want the game to really pick up. group mentality is good in a game, but it also needs a big chunk of individual value in it.

let’s be honest, the main idea behind the expansion has previous work put into it, but the content and everything besides the main idea was kinda rushed. please guys, no more rushing, focus on what has value. ik you guys listen to your fans, dont change that trait, it’s what has kept your company alive, it wasnt luck, it was an open mind.

EDIT: even if you are GREAT and have great potential, it is all destroyed when you are forced into a specific and very LIMITED role of gameplay.

In Addition: i have several level 80s, but what if i want my guardian to go toe-to-toe with a thief? its impossible, complete disadvantage. i want the specific skills for classes to remain, but i want those skills to be useful in a broader sense, as in, it would be wise to allow EACH and every class to stand its own ground versus all other classes. hence, balancing out the playing field. also, an official 1vs1 or 2vs2 option in pvp and pve would be NIIIICE?

dietzero.3514:

The beta portal is grinding.

No its farm, you dont NEED a portal. Farming is for self profit which is exactly what you get out of being one of the few players that get a portal. Grinding is something you need to get like exotic , that is a very very soft easy grind. Ascended is optional and not required for anything except high level fractals.

And how the hell does the game not offer any individuality? You have TONS of armors and weapon skins to choose from and dyes hundreds of them! You can run builds that are off meta and crazy sure they may not work well in say pvp because the current player made builds may counter that style but thats on the player side not the dev side. If you want a crappy game with no classes go play Everquest landmark, a game that failed before it even launched. And it seems to me you dont understand the fundamental concept of an MMORPG , Massive MULTIPLAYER Online ROLE PLAYING GAME. AND WHAT ON GOD’S GREEN EARTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT MEDIGUARD IS A HARD COUNTER TO THIEF BURST BUILDS LEARN TO PLAY PLEASE BUT A CONDI THEIF STANDS A GREAT CHANCE OF KILLING A MEDIGUARD. It sounds to me like you want a super op ultra class that can faceroll everything with 0 skill involved with some kittened shiny gear that you ALONE have access too. and 1v1 arenas do exist go check the lobbies, hell my guild is doing one this weekend. There are even offical tournments every week and month for all for 1v1 and 5v5. You just seem out of the loop. :l

Last thing my comment about PvP is what SHOULD win skilled players can out play others using rolls, evades, blocks , counters , CCs… etc. OH and look at that thats skill based isnt it?

Hitomi Shadowleaf.5629:

Adry.7512:

the game does not offer players to adopt an individualistic role in the game. this game puts no value in individuality, it puts all its focus on team-based activities. therefore, leaving mediocre tasks that offer reward to the lone individual, which is every single player, unless the player has a team to play with ever single day for the whole time they are online. the same is said for the game’s PVP, the lack of value put in individuality and individual manifestation of skill for classes are really bad. each class forces a role on every player who plays the class, which really narrows your options and forces you to play with a team if you want to even participate in it’s pvp. it narrows your options even more when the game forces a SPECIFIC build on every player, which essentially annihilates the option of trying to create a build to begin with. sadly, since players are forced to play a role for every class, they also will not be able to compete in another field outside that SPECIFIC expertise. therefore you will never be able to do anything and be good, or at even grounds in terms of individual skill, with any other class. overall the PVE and PVP has no individualistic perspective put into its creation. i urge and even warn the developers to stop this group mentality for everything they do, if they want the game to really pick up. group mentality is good in a game, but it also needs a big chunk of individual value in it.

let’s be honest, the main idea behind the expansion has previous work put into it, but the content and everything besides the main idea was kinda rushed. please guys, no more rushing, focus on what has value. ik you guys listen to your fans, dont change that trait, it’s what has kept your company alive, it wasnt luck, it was an open mind.

EDIT: even if you are GREAT and have great potential, it is all destroyed when you are forced into a specific and very LIMITED role of gameplay.

In Addition: i have several level 80s, but what if i want my guardian to go toe-to-toe with a thief? its impossible, complete disadvantage. i want the specific skills for classes to remain, but i want those skills to be useful in a broader sense, as in, it would be wise to allow EACH and every class to stand its own ground versus all other classes. hence, balancing out the playing field. also, an official 1vs1 or 2vs2 option in pvp and pve would be NIIIICE?

dietzero.3514:

The beta portal is grinding.

No its farm, you dont NEED a portal. Farming is for self profit which is exactly what you get out of being one of the few players that get a portal. Grinding is something you need to get like exotic , that is a very very soft easy grind. Ascended is optional and not required for anything except high level fractals.

And how the hell does the game not offer any individuality? You have TONS of armors and weapon skins to choose from and dyes hundreds of them! You can run builds that are off meta and crazy sure they may not work well in say pvp because the current player made builds may counter that style but thats on the player side not the dev side. If you want a crappy game with no classes go play Everquest landmark, a game that failed before it even launched. And it seems to me you dont understand the fundamental concept of an MMORPG , Massive MULTIPLAYER Online ROLE PLAYING GAME. AND WHAT ON GOD’S GREEN EARTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT MEDIGUARD IS A HARD COUNTER TO THIEF BURST BUILDS LEARN TO PLAY PLEASE BUT A CONDI THEIF STANDS A GREAT CHANCE OF KILLING A MEDIGUARD. It sounds to me like you want a super op ultra class that can faceroll everything with 0 skill involved with some kittened shiny gear that you ALONE have access too. and 1v1 arenas do exist go check the lobbies, hell my guild is doing one this weekend. There are even offical tournments every week and month for all for 1v1 and 5v5. You just seem out of the loop. :l

possibly, you might be right. anyways no i def dont want an op class, please none of that. i just dont want to feel like a robot when i play this game.

I get what you are trying to say, but I think you might be a bit disconnected.

If Guild Wars 2 feels like a grind to you then you are either spending too much playing it, or the game just doesn’t suit your tastes.

The game is hugely successful, and for a reason. The complaints you hear on the forums are mostly vocal minority who speaks some truth, but hyperbole it to the point of hilarity. Like you speak some truth, but makes it sound like it’s the end of the world for the devs and the game, and that the player base has turned into a mass of robots just grinding away.

There is definitely individuality in the game. You can pick and choose from your favorite playstyle. Gearing and builds are yours to choose despite there being a meta (every game has a meta, heck even pillars of eternity got a meta). The meta is player created. Usually it’s the top guilds/teams who theorycraft on efficiency and they collectively suggest and promote metas.

In pvp you might feel every class is restricted, but in actuality it’s not. A good thief can take a medi-guard, but it’s not advised since a medi-guard is meant to sustain and counter thieves. Currently there’s a thief build in testing (condition) which is meant to counter medi-guards. And that is how the meta works, it’s ever-changing. Builds come that dominate because of some skill or sustain, then a build comes that counters it and makes it unusable. Similarly, you have flavor of the month (currently it’s pew pew ranger), and they die quite quickly as people learn to counter them. Though I have seen some good deviations of the pew pew ranger build which might make it into the meta.

As for PvE there’s so much content you can do that you don’t need to see the same content in weeks if you care. And you can choose exactly what you want to do. Of course if you are looking to maximize your gold gain then certain activities are more profitable than others (the most profitable being playing the tradepost, but there’s not an awful lot of people doing that). People who just play to maximize gold gain do, however, not understand the gist of games (it’s the same fallacy that exists in real life). As John Lennon so eloquently put it. “Life is what happens when you are busy making other plans”. So, don’t make gold the end in-and-of itself, instead make it one of the means to an end.

Adry.7512:

ok i will explain my feelings towards this a bit further. when i play i dont feel i put myself into the activities i do. everything is narrowed down to what the developers force upon me.

Of course it is. Because the developers developed the game and you can only do in game, what they have developed/enabled.

Adry.7512:

when i play, everything ends up going in a circle, SPVP, fractals, dungeons, world bosses, etc….then rinse and repeat. understand?

Thats how it works when you have played all the “one-time” content and are only playing the repeatable content. In a single user game you would have “finished” the game and you would switch to an other activity or to an other game.

Adry.7512:

where is the individualism in that?

The individualism is in your own decision. You could stop the “rinse and repeat” everytime, if you want. No one (not even the developers) force you to do this.

Adry.7512:

“why does it feel grindy”, “i got bored after i hit lvl80”, “when my friends stopped i just quit”. well its because this game forces a robotic form of gameplay into its playerbase, and i think it needsm uch more variation.

As a side note: Because of too much variation, some people feel its grindy. One example: A lot of things can drop in game as loot but can also be bought with gold on the trading post. And you get gold by playing in nearly every play style. So it is a lot of variation. But there will always be a few playstyles that are most effective for getting gold. So some people only play this few playstyles and than have the feeling that getting gold is grindy.

id never explained it my self better than that, well done buddy

dietzero.3514:

The beta portal is grinding.

Only if you want to get into the beta. It’s peripheral. This more than anything.

That’s a very weak example of “grinding” and people who want to make this an issue to the end of grind in GW2 are going to end up making fools of themselves. Again.

Maybe you should try a different game with higher difficulty/more sandbox elements?
+ what Zok said.

TL;DR: The grindy feeling comes from ArenaNet changing their philosophy from “Play how you want” to “We want to make rewards draw people into all parts of the game”.

I define “grind” as “repeatedly doing content for the extrinsic reward with little intrinsic reward”. Extrinsic reward is something you are given for doing an activity. Intrinsic reward is the enjoyment you get from doing the activity itself.

One place that GW2 does not feel grindy, where they got “Play how you want” right, is in leveling. The game gives me experience points no matter what I do. I can do zone exploration and level, WvW, EotM, Dungeons, Personal Story, or even sit around crafting in order to level my character. I don’t have to focus on the extrinsic reward of XP at all. I just go out and play the game how I want, and the levels roll in.

At endgame, however, the philosophy shifts. It is clear that ArenaNet is structuring rewards to try and guide people into playing all parts of the game. That means if I want a reward, unless I enjoy every part of the game, I’m guaranteed to be lead into an area that will feel “grindy”. I’m there, in spite of the fact I don’t enjoy it, because of the shiny at the end.

Theoretically, the fact that so many things can also be achieved, or at least shortcut with gold, should alleviate this problem. Don’t like a particular part of the game? Get gold and buy it from people who do.

Unfortunately, in order to maintain a stable, open economy, ArenaNet has to keep a tight rein on gold. That means there is wide disparity in how much gold various activities generate for the same amount of effort. This is put into sharp relief by the effect of any open market system, which is going to pay the best return not to people who labor, but to those who trade on the market.

So gold, which should be the work around that lets you play the game how you want, and trade with other players who are playing how they want, actually makes it feel more grindy because it draws people into doing the content that has the greatest gold return, rather than what they enjoy.

Gibson.4036:

TL;DR: The grindy feeling comes from ArenaNet changing their philosophy from “Play how you want” to “We want to make rewards draw people into all parts of the game”.

I define “grind” as “repeatedly doing content for the extrinsic reward with little intrinsic reward”. Extrinsic reward is something you are given for doing an activity. Intrinsic reward is the enjoyment you get from doing the activity itself.

One place that GW2 does not feel grindy, where they got “Play how you want” right, is in leveling. The game gives me experience points no matter what I do. I can do zone exploration and level, WvW, EotM, Dungeons, Personal Story, or even sit around crafting in order to level my character. I don’t have to focus on the extrinsic reward of XP at all. I just go out and play the game how I want, and the levels roll in.

At endgame, however, the philosophy shifts. It is clear that ArenaNet is structuring rewards to try and guide people into playing all parts of the game. That means if I want a reward, unless I enjoy every part of the game, I’m guaranteed to be lead into an area that will feel “grindy”. I’m there, in spite of the fact I don’t enjoy it, because of the shiny at the end.

Theoretically, the fact that so many things can also be achieved, or at least shortcut with gold, should alleviate this problem. Don’t like a particular part of the game? Get gold and buy it from people who do.

Unfortunately, in order to maintain a stable, open economy, ArenaNet has to keep a tight rein on gold. That means there is wide disparity in how much gold various activities generate for the same amount of effort. This is put into sharp relief by the effect of any open market system, which is going to pay the best return not to people who labor, but to those who trade on the market.

So gold, which should be the work around that lets you play the game how you want, an trade with other players who are playing how they want, actually makes it feel more grindy because it draws people into doing the content that has the greatest gold return, rather than what they enjoy.

Pretty much a perfect analysis.

As of WoD, Blizzard are way ahead of Anet on making their game fun for different playstyles, hilariously (should be the opposite).

Adry.7512:

zoejo.2317:

Where are you coming from saying the clients are not happy? Did you look at their sales record? Can you back that up with something other than the voices of the few forum goers?

You’re a minority. The game is successful. It’s not changing anytime soon.

your putting words into my mouth. re-read. also, please dont take minorities out of the equation, its quite bad to do so. on top of that, what part of “Anet continues to change the direction of the game” slipped past you? i would be happy to explain. you seem to not understand the bigger picture. please restate what you said more constructively so i can better discuss the topic with you.

Edit: what is funny is that your perspective might actually be the “minority” in this subject. anyways may i ask what argument are you willing to discuss? what evidence must be presented to someone who isnt saying anything? to ask me to back it up (i would guess u mean evidence), then present nothing, but a poorly constructed opinion?

You said the clients are unhappy. Yet the game is expanding (e.g. to china) with a very healthy projected profit for the future. In the face of this, where are you coming from to say the clients are unhappy?

It’s not a poorly constructed opinion. Actually it wasn’t even an opinion. It was a question. You stated something on a public forum, and I asked you to explain what you based that statement on. You don’t have to do it as it is a free country – and that will be enough of an answer.

zoejo.2317:

You’re a minority. The game is successful. It’s not changing anytime soon.

You have no idea how important is forum/reddit “minority” to a mmorpg.

zoejo.2317:

Where are you coming from saying the clients are not happy? Did you look at their sales record? Can you back that up with something other than the voices of the few forum goers?

You’re a minority. The game is successful. It’s not changing anytime soon.

Those that want to vent, complain and whine on this Forum do not want to hear (and certainly not believe) the above truth. They will continue to rant and claim that since a couple of dozen posters here are upset about this or that issue, a majority of other players must be also. This invalid assumption fuels 90% of the threads in this forum.

Gibson.4036:

TL;DR: The grindy feeling comes from ArenaNet changing their philosophy from “Play how you want” to “We want to make rewards draw people into all parts of the game”.

I define “grind” as “repeatedly doing content for the extrinsic reward with little intrinsic reward”. Extrinsic reward is something you are given for doing an activity. Intrinsic reward is the enjoyment you get from doing the activity itself.

One place that GW2 does not feel grindy, where they got “Play how you want” right, is in leveling. The game gives me experience points no matter what I do. I can do zone exploration and level, WvW, EotM, Dungeons, Personal Story, or even sit around crafting in order to level my character. I don’t have to focus on the extrinsic reward of XP at all. I just go out and play the game how I want, and the levels roll in.

At endgame, however, the philosophy shifts. It is clear that ArenaNet is structuring rewards to try and guide people into playing all parts of the game. That means if I want a reward, unless I enjoy every part of the game, I’m guaranteed to be lead into an area that will feel “grindy”. I’m there, in spite of the fact I don’t enjoy it, because of the shiny at the end.

Theoretically, the fact that so many things can also be achieved, or at least shortcut with gold, should alleviate this problem. Don’t like a particular part of the game? Get gold and buy it from people who do.

Unfortunately, in order to maintain a stable, open economy, ArenaNet has to keep a tight rein on gold. That means there is wide disparity in how much gold various activities generate for the same amount of effort. This is put into sharp relief by the effect of any open market system, which is going to pay the best return not to people who labor, but to those who trade on the market.

So gold, which should be the work around that lets you play the game how you want, and trade with other players who are playing how they want, actually makes it feel more grindy because it draws people into doing the content that has the greatest gold return, rather than what they enjoy.

A good analysis of the issue the OP is presenting (a better presentation of the same fact). Most people’s goals are driven by extrinsic motivation (which is powered by the intrinsic motivation that vanity/fame/glory/amicability gives you). GW2s PvE element, more aptly called Fashion Wars 2, will be about external looks. The PvP community cares little if you run with Eternity or some 20g skin from the gem store; there it’s about skill.

Where your analysis falls short is where you assume everyone falls into the Fashion Wars category, and to be sure you are not explicitly wrong in this, but it’s not a good assumption because it doesn’t account for everybody.

Moreover, you argue that people take the shortest route for gold, because certain areas of the game provide more gold than other. Sure enough, but this is also true for leveling. The issue is similar when leveling. Many choose to maximise their utility by choosing the shortest/cheapest route to level 80 which means EOTM, Tomes of Knowledge, or Powerleveling. In that way there is actually little difference between the “xp”-grind and the “gold”-grind. Mind you, most areas of the game DO provide gold.

So what becomes of your analysis then? That you gained levels quick enough, but gold doesn’t come as fast as you’d like? Most likely that is your issue, or even, most people’s issue.

Again, it whittles down to whether or not you enjoy what you can do in GW2 and the content the game offers. Because (mostly) everything gives you the means to get what you want. It’s just that some activities give you the means faster than others. In the end it’s about what you want, and that’s where most people fall into the same fallacy of “value”, they do in real life.

Usually when GW2 feels grindy to me, it’s because I get frustrated sometimes at how slowly gold trickles in for me. On other games I play, I make money very easily. GW2 was culture shock for me in this regard. I’ve been told the absolute fastest ways to make money are 1. Buy low/sell high on the TP and 2. Dungeon running. People tell me that if I run every single dungeon path every day and get the daily for it, I’ll have tons of money.

But I really can’t stomach that. I do dungeons once in a while, not every day. And not all the available paths. That would be too much of a time commitment for me. I wish there was a way to make the same amount of money as I would dungeon running doing something that I actually enjoy. But the things I enjoy don’t really pay out well. In the end, I just had to be okay with the fact that this problem isn’t going to be solved and not worry about getting much money.

Majority of players in game don’t even READ the forums let alone post on them. The whiners are definitely in the minority.

DieselFueled.3257:

Majority of players in game don’t even READ the forums let alone post on them. The whiners are definitely in the minority.

^ i see a few posts like this so i will answer for every1 of them here

understandable. how many players play the game casually? AKA what the game is known for. when you play a game casually (me included), you touch it once every 2 days? maybe an hour here and there and then u play a bit more on a saturday? do you get what im saying? those that play it regularly, well then that’s nice, but i am sure you can agree its a casual game. i can imagine that the devs wanted players to pickup on content immediately when logging in and not have to go on a gear grind fest every year, but do you believe they intended for the game to be picked up so casually? on those boring days when u say “meh, let me turn this on for a bit”. i know plenty of people who have touched this game, including co-wokers, friends, etc. and even those who like it….find themselves not really playing it anymore. i will be pretty clear, i have seen the most garbage games that require you to pay HUNDREDS to have any fun in…..still running with a player-base. LOL yes there will ALWAYS be people playing this game, that is not the problem. yes it is successful cause they did a lot of things right. regardless, there is an undoubtable feeling of emptiness when you play this game that for SOME REASON does not keep the average player consistently playing. its a casual game to leave on the shelf and pick-up every once in a while when you get bored. its not a game to quit entirely, this game doesnt provide that sort of system, so full-blown rage quitters are rare.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Usually when GW2 feels grindy to me, it’s because I get frustrated sometimes at how slowly gold trickles in for me. On other games I play, I make money very easily. GW2 was culture shock for me in this regard. I’ve been told the absolute fastest ways to make money are 1. Buy low/sell high on the TP and 2. Dungeon running. People tell me that if I run every single dungeon path every day and get the daily for it, I’ll have tons of money.

But I really can’t stomach that. I do dungeons once in a while, not every day. And not all the available paths. That would be too much of a time commitment for me. I wish there was a way to make the same amount of money as I would dungeon running doing something that I actually enjoy. But the things I enjoy don’t really pay out well. In the end, I just had to be okay with the fact that this problem isn’t going to be solved and not worry about getting much money.

This is the biggest problem with money making in GW2, imho – the wild disparity in how much money you get for different L80 activities – dungeons are disproportionately rewarding, for starters.

Adry.7512:

DieselFueled.3257:

Majority of players in game don’t even READ the forums let alone post on them. The whiners are definitely in the minority.

^ i see a few posts like this so i will answer for every1 of them here

understandable. how many players play the game casually? AKA what the game is known for. when you play a game casually (me included), you touch it once every 2 days? maybe an hour here and there and then u play a bit more on a saturday? do you get what im saying? those that play it regularly, well then that’s nice, but i am sure you can agree its a casual game. i can imagine that the devs wanted players to pickup on content immediately when logging in and not have to go on a gear grind fest every year, but do you believe they intended for the game to be picked up so casually? on those boring days when u say “meh, let me turn this on for a bit”. i know plenty of people who have touched this game, including co-wokers, friends, etc. and even those who like it….find themselves not really playing it anymore. i will be pretty clear, i have seen the most garbage games that require you to pay HUNDREDS to have any fun in…..still running with a player-base. LOL yes there will ALWAYS be people playing this game, that is not the problem. yes it is successful cause they did a lot of things right. regardless, there is an undoubtable feeling of emptiness when you play this game that for SOME REASON does not keep the average player consistently playing. its a casual game to leave on the shelf and pick-up every once in a while when you get bored. its not a game to quit entirely, this game doesnt provide that sort of system, so full-blown rage quitters are rare.

That is your opinion, and nothing else…..and you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. But, you have absolutely no facts to back up your opinions/assumptions, no matter how many words you capitalize.

You’re basing your opinion on the actions of a few of your friends, and on your own personal experiences, and then taking a huge illogical assumption that this is what the game is about and what the majority experience. But you don’t stop there, as you continue to make broad and generalized assumptions in how the devs feel about the game, and what their true intents were.

Well, I have several friends in game, that by their actions prove the exact opposite of what you’re saying. So, I guess that means that I can also take a huge illogical assumption that this is how the majority of players feel, based on a few of my friends’ actions. Then, I guess I could come up with a whole different vague generalization on how the devs feel, and what they believe the game should be and how it is played. Oh yea, and the devs love hazelnut breves with double shots and whipped cream while they’re working.

See how that works?

I would like to buy some white space and capitalization. If you want to express your idea or opinion have the courtesy of making it readable.

I’m a solo player 99% of the time, yes, I know it’s an MMO but that just means there are other players in the same map as you, doesn’t mean you have to team up.

Of course as it turns out that the few activities here than do produce the most gold per hour of play (which I find ridiculous as a metric for playing) are team activities. Except they are team activities which the collective “wisdom” says you must play a certain way with certain builds with certain gear slotted a certain way to participate with groups getting that high gold per hour rate. Why go to all that trouble? What does an extra day or week to earn the same amount of gold without all that grief?

ANet didn’t decide on the dungeon Meta, players did. Min/Maxers. Players who are trying to recreate the limitations that a standard MMO trinity enforces in terms of play during raids. And no matter how many things ANet changes with Trait 3.0 will alter things. A new Meta will be found quickly and those who want to join the elite groups will have to have. Same with changes to skills, upgrades or whatever else ANet tinkers with.

So the choice is either conform to this rigid style of play so you can get your reward quickly or choose individuality and accept that you can’t get everything yesterday. Rome wasn’t built in a day and neither should your character. MMOs aren’t sprints, they’re marathons.

Behellagh.1468:

I would like to buy some white space and capitalization. If you want to express your idea or opinion have the courtesy of making it readable.

I’m a solo player 99% of the time, yes, I know it’s an MMO but that just means there are other players in the same map as you, doesn’t mean you have to team up.

Of course as it turns out that the few activities here than do produce the most gold per hour of play (which I find ridiculous as a metric for playing) are team activities. Except they are team activities which the collective “wisdom” says you must play a certain way with certain builds with certain gear slotted a certain way to participate with groups getting that high gold per hour rate. Why go to all that trouble? What does an extra day or week to earn the same amount of gold without all that grief?

ANet didn’t decide on the dungeon Meta, players did. Min/Maxers. Players who are trying to recreate the limitations that a standard MMO trinity enforces in terms of play during raids. And no matter how many things ANet changes with Trait 3.0 will alter things. A new Meta will be found quickly and those who want to join the elite groups will have to have. Same with changes to skills, upgrades or whatever else ANet tinkers with.

So the choice is either conform to this rigid style of play so you can get your reward quickly or choose individuality and accept that you can’t get everything yesterday. Rome wasn’t built in a day and neither should your character. MMOs aren’t sprints, they’re marathons.

Very well said!

Teon.5168:

Adry.7512:

DieselFueled.3257:

Majority of players in game don’t even READ the forums let alone post on them. The whiners are definitely in the minority.

^ i see a few posts like this so i will answer for every1 of them here

understandable. how many players play the game casually? AKA what the game is known for. when you play a game casually (me included), you touch it once every 2 days? maybe an hour here and there and then u play a bit more on a saturday? do you get what im saying? those that play it regularly, well then that’s nice, but i am sure you can agree its a casual game. i can imagine that the devs wanted players to pickup on content immediately when logging in and not have to go on a gear grind fest every year, but do you believe they intended for the game to be picked up so casually? on those boring days when u say “meh, let me turn this on for a bit”. i know plenty of people who have touched this game, including co-wokers, friends, etc. and even those who like it….find themselves not really playing it anymore. i will be pretty clear, i have seen the most garbage games that require you to pay HUNDREDS to have any fun in…..still running with a player-base. LOL yes there will ALWAYS be people playing this game, that is not the problem. yes it is successful cause they did a lot of things right. regardless, there is an undoubtable feeling of emptiness when you play this game that for SOME REASON does not keep the average player consistently playing. its a casual game to leave on the shelf and pick-up every once in a while when you get bored. its not a game to quit entirely, this game doesnt provide that sort of system, so full-blown rage quitters are rare.

That is your opinion, and nothing else…..and you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. But, you have absolutely no facts to back up your opinions/assumptions, no matter how many words you capitalize.

You’re basing your opinion on the actions of a few of your friends, and on your own personal experiences, and then taking a huge illogical assumption that this is what the game is about and what the majority experience. But you don’t stop there, as you continue to make broad and generalized assumptions in how the devs feel about the game, and what their true intents were.

Well, I have several friends in game, that by their actions prove the exact opposite of what you’re saying. So, I guess that means that I can also take a huge illogical assumption that this is how the majority of players feel, based on a few of my friends’ actions. Then, I guess I could come up with a whole different vague generalization on how the devs feel, and what they believe the game should be and how it is played. Oh yea, and the devs love hazelnut breves with double shots and whipped cream while they’re working.

See how that works?

so you deny that this is a casual game? you also deny the FACT that devs didnt want players going on a grindfest for new gear every year, even though they themselves stated it? i am taking actual things and branching off from it. the branching off part is assumptions and ideas, but thats it.

See how that works?

Adry.7512:

Teon.5168:

Adry.7512:

DieselFueled.3257:

Majority of players in game don’t even READ the forums let alone post on them. The whiners are definitely in the minority.

^ i see a few posts like this so i will answer for every1 of them here

understandable. how many players play the game casually? AKA what the game is known for. when you play a game casually (me included), you touch it once every 2 days? maybe an hour here and there and then u play a bit more on a saturday? do you get what im saying? those that play it regularly, well then that’s nice, but i am sure you can agree its a casual game. i can imagine that the devs wanted players to pickup on content immediately when logging in and not have to go on a gear grind fest every year, but do you believe they intended for the game to be picked up so casually? on those boring days when u say “meh, let me turn this on for a bit”. i know plenty of people who have touched this game, including co-wokers, friends, etc. and even those who like it….find themselves not really playing it anymore. i will be pretty clear, i have seen the most garbage games that require you to pay HUNDREDS to have any fun in…..still running with a player-base. LOL yes there will ALWAYS be people playing this game, that is not the problem. yes it is successful cause they did a lot of things right. regardless, there is an undoubtable feeling of emptiness when you play this game that for SOME REASON does not keep the average player consistently playing. its a casual game to leave on the shelf and pick-up every once in a while when you get bored. its not a game to quit entirely, this game doesnt provide that sort of system, so full-blown rage quitters are rare.

That is your opinion, and nothing else…..and you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. But, you have absolutely no facts to back up your opinions/assumptions, no matter how many words you capitalize.

You’re basing your opinion on the actions of a few of your friends, and on your own personal experiences, and then taking a huge illogical assumption that this is what the game is about and what the majority experience. But you don’t stop there, as you continue to make broad and generalized assumptions in how the devs feel about the game, and what their true intents were.

Well, I have several friends in game, that by their actions prove the exact opposite of what you’re saying. So, I guess that means that I can also take a huge illogical assumption that this is how the majority of players feel, based on a few of my friends’ actions. Then, I guess I could come up with a whole different vague generalization on how the devs feel, and what they believe the game should be and how it is played. Oh yea, and the devs love hazelnut breves with double shots and whipped cream while they’re working.

See how that works?

so you deny that this is a casual game? you also deny the FACT that devs didnt want players going on a grindfest for new gear every year, even though they themselves stated it? i am taking actual things and branching off from it. the branching off part is assumptions and ideas, but thats it.

See how that works?

Well done in completely missing my point.

I have friends in game that don’t treat this game as a ‘casual’ game, so based on their actions, I can leap to the illogical assumption that this is not a casual game.

Would love to see some links for your ‘facts’.

Eurhetemec.9052:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Usually when GW2 feels grindy to me, it’s because I get frustrated sometimes at how slowly gold trickles in for me. On other games I play, I make money very easily. GW2 was culture shock for me in this regard. I’ve been told the absolute fastest ways to make money are 1. Buy low/sell high on the TP and 2. Dungeon running. People tell me that if I run every single dungeon path every day and get the daily for it, I’ll have tons of money.

But I really can’t stomach that. I do dungeons once in a while, not every day. And not all the available paths. That would be too much of a time commitment for me. I wish there was a way to make the same amount of money as I would dungeon running doing something that I actually enjoy. But the things I enjoy don’t really pay out well. In the end, I just had to be okay with the fact that this problem isn’t going to be solved and not worry about getting much money.

This is the biggest problem with money making in GW2, imho – the wild disparity in how much money you get for different L80 activities – dungeons are disproportionately rewarding, for starters.

And what in YOUR opinion should be equally as rewarding as dungeons?

guys remember that the problem is a lack of cultural variation!!! the lack of it results in robotic repetitive gameplay. all my hopes are in the expansion, in the PVP and guild aspects of the game are going to get a huge content increase. with guild housing and such, i hope that the cultural aspect of this game will deepen so i dont have to feel like a robot doing repetitive content.

the main idea behind this thread is me and many others disliking the robotic repetitive aspects of this game. culture will (I HOPE) expand, as guild systems become vastly more complex, PVP adopts more variation (1v1, 2v2, etc). yes of course this game has a buncha stuff for u to do….OBVIOUSLY IT DOES lol. that is NOT the problem. the problem is the lack of feeling that goes into these mediocre tasks, hence killing my intrinsic value towards these tasks. my individuality doesnt exist when i play this game due to lack of culture, lack of community, lack of everything that should matter in an MMO. at least single player games get you attached to the story and the characters in the game, this doesnt have any of that, nor has it ever expanded on its culture. having a guild in this game is a joke LOL. which is why i am waiting on the expansion. lol all you people do it repeat obvious things to defend your topic which in reality isnt even what i am talking about, your responses are completely objective and lack any form on critical thinking. as for those who understand the sentiment, thank you and yes i your point.

What exactly is it about the HoT expansion that you think will improve the game’s culture? Or make it less repetitive? I’m not sure I’m following.

Teon.5168:

Adry.7512:

Teon.5168:

Adry.7512:

DieselFueled.3257:

Majority of players in game don’t even READ the forums let alone post on them. The whiners are definitely in the minority.

^ i see a few posts like this so i will answer for every1 of them here

understandable. how many players play the game casually? AKA what the game is known for. when you play a game casually (me included), you touch it once every 2 days? maybe an hour here and there and then u play a bit more on a saturday? do you get what im saying? those that play it regularly, well then that’s nice, but i am sure you can agree its a casual game. i can imagine that the devs wanted players to pickup on content immediately when logging in and not have to go on a gear grind fest every year, but do you believe they intended for the game to be picked up so casually? on those boring days when u say “meh, let me turn this on for a bit”. i know plenty of people who have touched this game, including co-wokers, friends, etc. and even those who like it….find themselves not really playing it anymore. i will be pretty clear, i have seen the most garbage games that require you to pay HUNDREDS to have any fun in…..still running with a player-base. LOL yes there will ALWAYS be people playing this game, that is not the problem. yes it is successful cause they did a lot of things right. regardless, there is an undoubtable feeling of emptiness when you play this game that for SOME REASON does not keep the average player consistently playing. its a casual game to leave on the shelf and pick-up every once in a while when you get bored. its not a game to quit entirely, this game doesnt provide that sort of system, so full-blown rage quitters are rare.

That is your opinion, and nothing else…..and you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. But, you have absolutely no facts to back up your opinions/assumptions, no matter how many words you capitalize.

You’re basing your opinion on the actions of a few of your friends, and on your own personal experiences, and then taking a huge illogical assumption that this is what the game is about and what the majority experience. But you don’t stop there, as you continue to make broad and generalized assumptions in how the devs feel about the game, and what their true intents were.

Well, I have several friends in game, that by their actions prove the exact opposite of what you’re saying. So, I guess that means that I can also take a huge illogical assumption that this is how the majority of players feel, based on a few of my friends’ actions. Then, I guess I could come up with a whole different vague generalization on how the devs feel, and what they believe the game should be and how it is played. Oh yea, and the devs love hazelnut breves with double shots and whipped cream while they’re working.

See how that works?

so you deny that this is a casual game? you also deny the FACT that devs didnt want players going on a grindfest for new gear every year, even though they themselves stated it? i am taking actual things and branching off from it. the branching off part is assumptions and ideas, but thats it.

See how that works?

Well done in completely missing my point.

I have friends in game that don’t treat this game as a ‘casual’ game, so based on their actions, I can leap to the illogical assumption that this is not a casual game.

Would love to see some links for your ‘facts’.

i understand exactly what you mean lol. you can look up that devs dont want a gear grindy game for yourself….its not hard to find. anyways, if you can provide any reason as to how this game is the opposite of what i mentioned, then hey i will respect that, until then ur word has no value, at least not to me.

Celtic Lady.3729:

What exactly is it about the HoT expansion that you think will improve the game’s culture? Or make it less repetitive? I’m not sure I’m following.

the expansion will also greatly focus on the pvp aspects of the game, allowing a player like myself to branch off the repetitive cycle and possibly add some of my own flavor into my overall experience. you understand? as in, if i want to focus on pvp, i will do so in my own way, with enough variation to take my path my own way. there is no way for me to create my own path in this game.

Adry.7512:

Teon.5168:

Adry.7512:

Teon.5168:

Adry.7512:

DieselFueled.3257:

Majority of players in game don’t even READ the forums let alone post on them. The whiners are definitely in the minority.

^ i see a few posts like this so i will answer for every1 of them here

understandable. how many players play the game casually? AKA what the game is known for. when you play a game casually (me included), you touch it once every 2 days? maybe an hour here and there and then u play a bit more on a saturday? do you get what im saying? those that play it regularly, well then that’s nice, but i am sure you can agree its a casual game. i can imagine that the devs wanted players to pickup on content immediately when logging in and not have to go on a gear grind fest every year, but do you believe they intended for the game to be picked up so casually? on those boring days when u say “meh, let me turn this on for a bit”. i know plenty of people who have touched this game, including co-wokers, friends, etc. and even those who like it….find themselves not really playing it anymore. i will be pretty clear, i have seen the most garbage games that require you to pay HUNDREDS to have any fun in…..still running with a player-base. LOL yes there will ALWAYS be people playing this game, that is not the problem. yes it is successful cause they did a lot of things right. regardless, there is an undoubtable feeling of emptiness when you play this game that for SOME REASON does not keep the average player consistently playing. its a casual game to leave on the shelf and pick-up every once in a while when you get bored. its not a game to quit entirely, this game doesnt provide that sort of system, so full-blown rage quitters are rare.

That is your opinion, and nothing else…..and you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. But, you have absolutely no facts to back up your opinions/assumptions, no matter how many words you capitalize.

You’re basing your opinion on the actions of a few of your friends, and on your own personal experiences, and then taking a huge illogical assumption that this is what the game is about and what the majority experience. But you don’t stop there, as you continue to make broad and generalized assumptions in how the devs feel about the game, and what their true intents were.

Well, I have several friends in game, that by their actions prove the exact opposite of what you’re saying. So, I guess that means that I can also take a huge illogical assumption that this is how the majority of players feel, based on a few of my friends’ actions. Then, I guess I could come up with a whole different vague generalization on how the devs feel, and what they believe the game should be and how it is played. Oh yea, and the devs love hazelnut breves with double shots and whipped cream while they’re working.

See how that works?

so you deny that this is a casual game? you also deny the FACT that devs didnt want players going on a grindfest for new gear every year, even though they themselves stated it? i am taking actual things and branching off from it. the branching off part is assumptions and ideas, but thats it.

See how that works?

Well done in completely missing my point.

I have friends in game that don’t treat this game as a ‘casual’ game, so based on their actions, I can leap to the illogical assumption that this is not a casual game.

Would love to see some links for your ‘facts’.

i understand exactly what you mean lol. you can look up that devs dont want a gear grindy game for yourself….its not hard to find. anyways, if you can provide any reason as to how this game is the opposite of what i mentioned, then hey i will respect that, until then ur word has no value, at least not to me.

Completely understand. Just as your opinion/words have absolutely no validity to me, either. You state your opinions are based on ‘fact’, therefore it is up to you to produce that ‘fact’ that you speak of.

Do I really care if you ever do that? No.

Just another opinionated talking head on the forums……like the rest of us.

(See my sig)

Adry.7512:

Teon.5168:

Adry.7512:

Teon.5168:

Adry.7512:

DieselFueled.3257:

Majority of players in game don’t even READ the forums let alone post on them. The whiners are definitely in the minority.

^ i see a few posts like this so i will answer for every1 of them here

understandable. how many players play the game casually? AKA what the game is known for. when you play a game casually (me included), you touch it once every 2 days? maybe an hour here and there and then u play a bit more on a saturday? do you get what im saying? those that play it regularly, well then that’s nice, but i am sure you can agree its a casual game. i can imagine that the devs wanted players to pickup on content immediately when logging in and not have to go on a gear grind fest every year, but do you believe they intended for the game to be picked up so casually? on those boring days when u say “meh, let me turn this on for a bit”. i know plenty of people who have touched this game, including co-wokers, friends, etc. and even those who like it….find themselves not really playing it anymore. i will be pretty clear, i have seen the most garbage games that require you to pay HUNDREDS to have any fun in…..still running with a player-base. LOL yes there will ALWAYS be people playing this game, that is not the problem. yes it is successful cause they did a lot of things right. regardless, there is an undoubtable feeling of emptiness when you play this game that for SOME REASON does not keep the average player consistently playing. its a casual game to leave on the shelf and pick-up every once in a while when you get bored. its not a game to quit entirely, this game doesnt provide that sort of system, so full-blown rage quitters are rare.

That is your opinion, and nothing else…..and you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. But, you have absolutely no facts to back up your opinions/assumptions, no matter how many words you capitalize.

You’re basing your opinion on the actions of a few of your friends, and on your own personal experiences, and then taking a huge illogical assumption that this is what the game is about and what the majority experience. But you don’t stop there, as you continue to make broad and generalized assumptions in how the devs feel about the game, and what their true intents were.

Well, I have several friends in game, that by their actions prove the exact opposite of what you’re saying. So, I guess that means that I can also take a huge illogical assumption that this is how the majority of players feel, based on a few of my friends’ actions. Then, I guess I could come up with a whole different vague generalization on how the devs feel, and what they believe the game should be and how it is played. Oh yea, and the devs love hazelnut breves with double shots and whipped cream while they’re working.

See how that works?

so you deny that this is a casual game? you also deny the FACT that devs didnt want players going on a grindfest for new gear every year, even though they themselves stated it? i am taking actual things and branching off from it. the branching off part is assumptions and ideas, but thats it.

See how that works?

Well done in completely missing my point.

I have friends in game that don’t treat this game as a ‘casual’ game, so based on their actions, I can leap to the illogical assumption that this is not a casual game.

Would love to see some links for your ‘facts’.

i understand exactly what you mean lol. you can look up that devs dont want a gear grindy game for yourself….its not hard to find. anyways, if you can provide any reason as to how this game is the opposite of what i mentioned, then hey i will respect that, until then ur word has no value, at least not to me.

Do you honestly, believe your words have any value to him either? The fact that he tore down your arguments and threw it back to your face should mean he doesn’t consider your comments of any value as well.

Also please use proper capitalization, it makes your points clear. Stop using lol in the middle of your comments it makes you look childish. Finally, use “your” not “ur” this is not texting or a facebook page.

Teon.5168:

Adry.7512:

Teon.5168:

Adry.7512:

Teon.5168:

Adry.7512:

DieselFueled.3257:

Majority of players in game don’t even READ the forums let alone post on them. The whiners are definitely in the minority.

^ i see a few posts like this so i will answer for every1 of them here

understandable. how many players play the game casually? AKA what the game is known for. when you play a game casually (me included), you touch it once every 2 days? maybe an hour here and there and then u play a bit more on a saturday? do you get what im saying? those that play it regularly, well then that’s nice, but i am sure you can agree its a casual game. i can imagine that the devs wanted players to pickup on content immediately when logging in and not have to go on a gear grind fest every year, but do you believe they intended for the game to be picked up so casually? on those boring days when u say “meh, let me turn this on for a bit”. i know plenty of people who have touched this game, including co-wokers, friends, etc. and even those who like it….find themselves not really playing it anymore. i will be pretty clear, i have seen the most garbage games that require you to pay HUNDREDS to have any fun in…..still running with a player-base. LOL yes there will ALWAYS be people playing this game, that is not the problem. yes it is successful cause they did a lot of things right. regardless, there is an undoubtable feeling of emptiness when you play this game that for SOME REASON does not keep the average player consistently playing. its a casual game to leave on the shelf and pick-up every once in a while when you get bored. its not a game to quit entirely, this game doesnt provide that sort of system, so full-blown rage quitters are rare.

That is your opinion, and nothing else…..and you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. But, you have absolutely no facts to back up your opinions/assumptions, no matter how many words you capitalize.

You’re basing your opinion on the actions of a few of your friends, and on your own personal experiences, and then taking a huge illogical assumption that this is what the game is about and what the majority experience. But you don’t stop there, as you continue to make broad and generalized assumptions in how the devs feel about the game, and what their true intents were.

Well, I have several friends in game, that by their actions prove the exact opposite of what you’re saying. So, I guess that means that I can also take a huge illogical assumption that this is how the majority of players feel, based on a few of my friends’ actions. Then, I guess I could come up with a whole different vague generalization on how the devs feel, and what they believe the game should be and how it is played. Oh yea, and the devs love hazelnut breves with double shots and whipped cream while they’re working.

See how that works?

so you deny that this is a casual game? you also deny the FACT that devs didnt want players going on a grindfest for new gear every year, even though they themselves stated it? i am taking actual things and branching off from it. the branching off part is assumptions and ideas, but thats it.

See how that works?

Well done in completely missing my point.

I have friends in game that don’t treat this game as a ‘casual’ game, so based on their actions, I can leap to the illogical assumption that this is not a casual game.

Would love to see some links for your ‘facts’.

i understand exactly what you mean lol. you can look up that devs dont want a gear grindy game for yourself….its not hard to find. anyways, if you can provide any reason as to how this game is the opposite of what i mentioned, then hey i will respect that, until then ur word has no value, at least not to me.

Completely understand. Just as your opinion/words have absolutely no validity to me, either. You state your opinions are based on ‘fact’, therefore it is up to you to produce that ‘fact’ that you speak of.

Do I really care if you ever do that? No.

Just another opinionated blowkitten the forums……like the rest of us.

(See my sig)

there are no facts except the fact that devs said they want to avoid a gear grind fest like the gear grind fest they have with WoW. lol, you think ur making sense, but in reality ur making me feel bad for u. stop this nonsense there is no point in what your saying.

Adry.7512:

guys remember that the problem is a lack of cultural variation!!! the lack of it results in robotic repetitive gameplay. all my hopes are in the expansion, in the PVP and guild aspects of the game are going to get a huge content increase. with guild housing and such, i hope that the cultural aspect of this game will deepen so i dont have to feel like a robot doing repetitive content.

the main idea behind this thread is me and many others disliking the robotic repetitive aspects of this game. culture will (I HOPE) expand, as guild systems become vastly more complex, PVP adopts more variation (1v1, 2v2, etc). yes of course this game has a buncha stuff for u to do….OBVIOUSLY IT DOES lol. that is NOT the problem. the problem is the lack of feeling that goes into these mediocre tasks, hence killing my intrinsic value towards these tasks. my individuality doesnt exist when i play this game due to lack of culture, lack of community, lack of everything that should matter in an MMO. at least single player games get you attached to the story and the characters in the game, this doesnt have any of that, nor has it ever expanded on its culture. having a guild in this game is a joke LOL. which is why i am waiting on the expansion. lol all you people do it repeat obvious things to defend your topic which in reality isnt even what i am talking about, your responses are completely objective and lack any form on critical thinking. as for those who understand the sentiment, thank you and yes i your point.

I tried to read your first post. But it was difficult to follow. But from what I get is that basically you are bored. You feel like a robot doing mindless tasks, and it’s not enjoyable (has intrinsic value). And thus, it’s the culture of the game that causes this.

You say there is no community, no culture.
RPers say hi. WvW players say hi, PvP players say hi. Dungeon tours, world boss tours say hi.

A sense of community comes through communication, and relationships. You join a random guild with a bunch of random players who barely speak to each other, then of course there is no community. The expansion won’t change that, thats something the players themselves need to work out.

Culture. I am not sure what you mean. The player culture, or the world of the game.
Tyria is a vast and varied world, with all sorts of culture, history, and peoples. But it’s not thrown in your face, you have to seek it out.

As far as the memorable characters, thats subjective. I love Tiami, Rox, Logan, Eir, Ogden Stonehealer, and even some of the unnamed priory explorers. Some people say it’s badly written, and cliche. But I enjoy them, and their personalities.

But going back to the loose connection to grind and feeling bored with the game. It’s really only through boredom, or some self imposed “need” to obtain a certain skin, or achievement, or amount of gold, is there the perception of grind. One person sees such things as a nicety, and optional, so it’s a farm. Others see it as a major goal in the game, and must be obtained at any costs, to them its a grind.

PlatinumMember.5274:

Adry.7512:

Teon.5168:

Adry.7512:

Teon.5168:

Adry.7512:

DieselFueled.3257:

Majority of players in game don’t even READ the forums let alone post on them. The whiners are definitely in the minority.

^ i see a few posts like this so i will answer for every1 of them here

understandable. how many players play the game casually? AKA what the game is known for. when you play a game casually (me included), you touch it once every 2 days? maybe an hour here and there and then u play a bit more on a saturday? do you get what im saying? those that play it regularly, well then that’s nice, but i am sure you can agree its a casual game. i can imagine that the devs wanted players to pickup on content immediately when logging in and not have to go on a gear grind fest every year, but do you believe they intended for the game to be picked up so casually? on those boring days when u say “meh, let me turn this on for a bit”. i know plenty of people who have touched this game, including co-wokers, friends, etc. and even those who like it….find themselves not really playing it anymore. i will be pretty clear, i have seen the most garbage games that require you to pay HUNDREDS to have any fun in…..still running with a player-base. LOL yes there will ALWAYS be people playing this game, that is not the problem. yes it is successful cause they did a lot of things right. regardless, there is an undoubtable feeling of emptiness when you play this game that for SOME REASON does not keep the average player consistently playing. its a casual game to leave on the shelf and pick-up every once in a while when you get bored. its not a game to quit entirely, this game doesnt provide that sort of system, so full-blown rage quitters are rare.

That is your opinion, and nothing else…..and you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. But, you have absolutely no facts to back up your opinions/assumptions, no matter how many words you capitalize.

You’re basing your opinion on the actions of a few of your friends, and on your own personal experiences, and then taking a huge illogical assumption that this is what the game is about and what the majority experience. But you don’t stop there, as you continue to make broad and generalized assumptions in how the devs feel about the game, and what their true intents were.

Well, I have several friends in game, that by their actions prove the exact opposite of what you’re saying. So, I guess that means that I can also take a huge illogical assumption that this is how the majority of players feel, based on a few of my friends’ actions. Then, I guess I could come up with a whole different vague generalization on how the devs feel, and what they believe the game should be and how it is played. Oh yea, and the devs love hazelnut breves with double shots and whipped cream while they’re working.

See how that works?

so you deny that this is a casual game? you also deny the FACT that devs didnt want players going on a grindfest for new gear every year, even though they themselves stated it? i am taking actual things and branching off from it. the branching off part is assumptions and ideas, but thats it.

See how that works?

Well done in completely missing my point.

I have friends in game that don’t treat this game as a ‘casual’ game, so based on their actions, I can leap to the illogical assumption that this is not a casual game.

Would love to see some links for your ‘facts’.

i understand exactly what you mean lol. you can look up that devs dont want a gear grindy game for yourself….its not hard to find. anyways, if you can provide any reason as to how this game is the opposite of what i mentioned, then hey i will respect that, until then ur word has no value, at least not to me.

Do you honestly, believe your words have any value to him either? The fact that he tore down your arguments and threw it back to your face should mean he doesn’t consider your comments of any value as well.

Also please use proper capitalization, it makes your points clear. Stop using lol in the middle of your comments it makes you look childish. Finally, use “your” not “ur” this is not texting or a facebook page.

of course i dont think that. i am not egotistical enough to believe my words have any value to him/her lol. i simply dont care unless he expands on his thoughts, i stated too much and all he did was reverse a few words here and there as if its a big deal, idc lol, he has stated nothing. i completely understand his point and i agree, but in reality he hasnt said anything…at all, concerning the problem being stated LOL.

Adry.7512:

Teon.5168:

Adry.7512:

Teon.5168:

Adry.7512:

Teon.5168:

Adry.7512:

DieselFueled.3257:

Majority of players in game don’t even READ the forums let alone post on them. The whiners are definitely in the minority.

^ i see a few posts like this so i will answer for every1 of them here

understandable. how many players play the game casually? AKA what the game is known for. when you play a game casually (me included), you touch it once every 2 days? maybe an hour here and there and then u play a bit more on a saturday? do you get what im saying? those that play it regularly, well then that’s nice, but i am sure you can agree its a casual game. i can imagine that the devs wanted players to pickup on content immediately when logging in and not have to go on a gear grind fest every year, but do you believe they intended for the game to be picked up so casually? on those boring days when u say “meh, let me turn this on for a bit”. i know plenty of people who have touched this game, including co-wokers, friends, etc. and even those who like it….find themselves not really playing it anymore. i will be pretty clear, i have seen the most garbage games that require you to pay HUNDREDS to have any fun in…..still running with a player-base. LOL yes there will ALWAYS be people playing this game, that is not the problem. yes it is successful cause they did a lot of things right. regardless, there is an undoubtable feeling of emptiness when you play this game that for SOME REASON does not keep the average player consistently playing. its a casual game to leave on the shelf and pick-up every once in a while when you get bored. its not a game to quit entirely, this game doesnt provide that sort of system, so full-blown rage quitters are rare.

That is your opinion, and nothing else…..and you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. But, you have absolutely no facts to back up your opinions/assumptions, no matter how many words you capitalize.

You’re basing your opinion on the actions of a few of your friends, and on your own personal experiences, and then taking a huge illogical assumption that this is what the game is about and what the majority experience. But you don’t stop there, as you continue to make broad and generalized assumptions in how the devs feel about the game, and what their true intents were.

Well, I have several friends in game, that by their actions prove the exact opposite of what you’re saying. So, I guess that means that I can also take a huge illogical assumption that this is how the majority of players feel, based on a few of my friends’ actions. Then, I guess I could come up with a whole different vague generalization on how the devs feel, and what they believe the game should be and how it is played. Oh yea, and the devs love hazelnut breves with double shots and whipped cream while they’re working.

See how that works?

so you deny that this is a casual game? you also deny the FACT that devs didnt want players going on a grindfest for new gear every year, even though they themselves stated it? i am taking actual things and branching off from it. the branching off part is assumptions and ideas, but thats it.

See how that works?

Well done in completely missing my point.

I have friends in game that don’t treat this game as a ‘casual’ game, so based on their actions, I can leap to the illogical assumption that this is not a casual game.

Would love to see some links for your ‘facts’.

i understand exactly what you mean lol. you can look up that devs dont want a gear grindy game for yourself….its not hard to find. anyways, if you can provide any reason as to how this game is the opposite of what i mentioned, then hey i will respect that, until then ur word has no value, at least not to me.

Completely understand. Just as your opinion/words have absolutely no validity to me, either. You state your opinions are based on ‘fact’, therefore it is up to you to produce that ‘fact’ that you speak of.

Do I really care if you ever do that? No.

Just another opinionated blowkitten the forums……like the rest of us.

(See my sig)

there are no facts except the fact that devs said they want to avoid a gear grind fest like the gear grind fest they have with WoW. lol, you think ur making sense, but in reality ur making me feel bad for u. stop this nonsense there is no point in what your saying.

Before accusing someone of not making any sense, it might help your point if you wrote in some sort of intelligible fashion.

pdavis.8031:

Adry.7512:

guys remember that the problem is a lack of cultural variation!!! the lack of it results in robotic repetitive gameplay. all my hopes are in the expansion, in the PVP and guild aspects of the game are going to get a huge content increase. with guild housing and such, i hope that the cultural aspect of this game will deepen so i dont have to feel like a robot doing repetitive content.

the main idea behind this thread is me and many others disliking the robotic repetitive aspects of this game. culture will (I HOPE) expand, as guild systems become vastly more complex, PVP adopts more variation (1v1, 2v2, etc). yes of course this game has a buncha stuff for u to do….OBVIOUSLY IT DOES lol. that is NOT the problem. the problem is the lack of feeling that goes into these mediocre tasks, hence killing my intrinsic value towards these tasks. my individuality doesnt exist when i play this game due to lack of culture, lack of community, lack of everything that should matter in an MMO. at least single player games get you attached to the story and the characters in the game, this doesnt have any of that, nor has it ever expanded on its culture. having a guild in this game is a joke LOL. which is why i am waiting on the expansion. lol all you people do it repeat obvious things to defend your topic which in reality isnt even what i am talking about, your responses are completely objective and lack any form on critical thinking. as for those who understand the sentiment, thank you and yes i your point.

I tried to read your first post. But it was difficult to follow. But from what I get is that basically you are bored. You feel like a robot doing mindless tasks, and it’s not enjoyable (has intrinsic value). And thus, it’s the culture of the game that causes this.

You say there is no community, no culture.
RPers say hi. WvW players say hi, PvP players say hi. Dungeon tours, world boss tours say hi.

A sense of community comes through communication, and relationships. You join a random guild with a bunch of random players who barely speak to each other, then of course there is no community. The expansion won’t change that, thats something the players themselves need to work out.

Culture. I am not sure what you mean. The player culture, or the world of the game.
Tyria is a vast and varied world, with all sorts of culture, history, and peoples. But it’s not thrown in your face, you have to seek it out.

As far as the memorable characters, thats subjective. I love Tiami, Rox, Logan, Eir, Ogden Stonehealer, and even some of the unnamed priory explorers. Some people say it’s badly written, and cliche. But I enjoy them, and their personalities.

But going back to the loose connection to grind and feeling bored with the game. It’s really only through boredom, or some self imposed “need” to obtain a certain skin, or achievement, or amount of gold, is there the perception of grind. One person sees such things as a nicety, and optional, so it’s a farm. Others see it as a major goal in the game, and must be obtained at any costs, to them its a grind.

your right. regardless i still feel like everybody else when i play this game. just another grey blob walking around doing the same thing everybody else is doing. there is nothing for me to create my own path with, there is no freedom for me to create my own legend.

The OP wants a SINGLE PLAYER game, nothing more, nothing less…it’s that simple, he shouldn’t be playing an MMO.(That’s from reading your very first few lines about now individuality).

Adry.7512:

pdavis.8031:

Adry.7512:

guys remember that the problem is a lack of cultural variation!!! the lack of it results in robotic repetitive gameplay. all my hopes are in the expansion, in the PVP and guild aspects of the game are going to get a huge content increase. with guild housing and such, i hope that the cultural aspect of this game will deepen so i dont have to feel like a robot doing repetitive content.

the main idea behind this thread is me and many others disliking the robotic repetitive aspects of this game. culture will (I HOPE) expand, as guild systems become vastly more complex, PVP adopts more variation (1v1, 2v2, etc). yes of course this game has a buncha stuff for u to do….OBVIOUSLY IT DOES lol. that is NOT the problem. the problem is the lack of feeling that goes into these mediocre tasks, hence killing my intrinsic value towards these tasks. my individuality doesnt exist when i play this game due to lack of culture, lack of community, lack of everything that should matter in an MMO. at least single player games get you attached to the story and the characters in the game, this doesnt have any of that, nor has it ever expanded on its culture. having a guild in this game is a joke LOL. which is why i am waiting on the expansion. lol all you people do it repeat obvious things to defend your topic which in reality isnt even what i am talking about, your responses are completely objective and lack any form on critical thinking. as for those who understand the sentiment, thank you and yes i your point.

I tried to read your first post. But it was difficult to follow. But from what I get is that basically you are bored. You feel like a robot doing mindless tasks, and it’s not enjoyable (has intrinsic value). And thus, it’s the culture of the game that causes this.

You say there is no community, no culture.
RPers say hi. WvW players say hi, PvP players say hi. Dungeon tours, world boss tours say hi.

A sense of community comes through communication, and relationships. You join a random guild with a bunch of random players who barely speak to each other, then of course there is no community. The expansion won’t change that, thats something the players themselves need to work out.

Culture. I am not sure what you mean. The player culture, or the world of the game.
Tyria is a vast and varied world, with all sorts of culture, history, and peoples. But it’s not thrown in your face, you have to seek it out.

As far as the memorable characters, thats subjective. I love Tiami, Rox, Logan, Eir, Ogden Stonehealer, and even some of the unnamed priory explorers. Some people say it’s badly written, and cliche. But I enjoy them, and their personalities.

But going back to the loose connection to grind and feeling bored with the game. It’s really only through boredom, or some self imposed “need” to obtain a certain skin, or achievement, or amount of gold, is there the perception of grind. One person sees such things as a nicety, and optional, so it’s a farm. Others see it as a major goal in the game, and must be obtained at any costs, to them its a grind.

your right. regardless i still feel like everybody else when i play this game. just another grey blob walking around doing the same thing everybody else is doing. there is nothing for me to create my own path with, there is no freedom for me to create my own legend.

Have you looked into role playing?
From the sound of it, this is kinda what you are looking for but not sure how to define it. The idea behind RPing, is that you get to make your own legend, to forge your own path.

Either that or looking for more of a sandbox. If thats the case, GW2 may not be for you. And thats ok. There are plently of options available for you.

Adry.7512:

IndigoSundown.5419:

- snip -

very well said. ok i will explain my feelings towards this a bit further. when i play i dont feel i put myself into the activities i do. everything is narrowed down to what the developers force upon me. when i play, everything ends up going in a circle, SPVP, fractals, dungeons, world bosses, etc….then rinse and repeat. understand? where is the individualism in that? of course, you add your own individualistic aspects in everything you do, but where can i be freely me in what I DECIDE TO DO??

OK, I guess I understand this. However, isn’t this the nature — at least to some extent — of a theme-park MMO? Also, is part of the feeling caused by the fact that GW content is old by industry standards? Thus, you’re doing the same things over and over because that’s what’s offered?

Adry.7512:

i cant become individually good in SPVP, its impossible, there is no 1v1 and no 2v2 emphasis on it.

I believe this game would benefit from a dueling function, with appropriate controls to prevent unwanted duel spam. Would this help?

Adry.7512:

in WVW, its a different story, but regardless, when you get a fight in which both are around the same skill level and have the exact same armor, can you say that any class you are using will have a fair chance of beating the other class?

My 1v1 experience has all been in WvW, so I can’t say whether my foes there had better gear than I did or not. I generally believe that better skill is what beat me most — if not all — of the time, though. I’ve also beaten every profession. Then again, I count a thief running away as a victory.

So, are the professions balanced v. each other? I’d have to agree that some are better 1v1 than others, some are better in herds, some in small group play. Not to excuse this situation, but PvP balance is an issue in every MMO I’ve seen. If you have concerns about specific profession match-ups, then the best place to discuss this would be in the PvP or WvW forums, or maybe the profession forum. What you’re going to get in General Discussion is a lot of “prove the other guy wrong on the internet.”

Adry.7512:

classes in this game are sort of set in stone. most players find themselves doing exactly what is constructed by ANET for you to do, there is no straying from that. if there was more individuality then maybe i could put importance into pvp and eventually maybe even create a guild with divisions in which people learn under more experienced player. sadly, there isn’t enough culture in this game for that, its all based on a rinse and repeat structure which really demotivates me.

Yes, GW2 is very much “on rails” when it comes to character builds. There are two factors that lead to this. One was the design decision to try to make balance “easy.” To do this, ANet limited options and tied skills together, not only by weapon but by using utility skill categories. The second limiting factor is the extended balance cycles. Balance passes shake things up.

As much as I like GW2 combat, I believe that that liking is based on appreciating the lack of trinity, the self sufficiency and the lack of lots of root-while-casting skills, not on the variety of options available.

Adry.7512:

Celtic Lady.3729:

What exactly is it about the HoT expansion that you think will improve the game’s culture? Or make it less repetitive? I’m not sure I’m following.

the expansion will also greatly focus on the pvp aspects of the game, allowing a player like myself to branch off the repetitive cycle and possibly add some of my own flavor into my overall experience. you understand? as in, if i want to focus on pvp, i will do so in my own way, with enough variation to take my path my own way. there is no way for me to create my own path in this game.

Well, okay, but HoT is only adding 1 new sPvP map and 1 new WvW map. We have more variety than that right now in those areas. I’m looking forward to these new maps, too, but I don’t see that they’re overall going to really change the face of sPvP or WvW.

Adry.7512:

Teon.5168:

Adry.7512:

Teon.5168:

Adry.7512:

Teon.5168:

Adry.7512:

DieselFueled.3257:

Majority of players in game don’t even READ the forums let alone post on them. The whiners are definitely in the minority.

^ i see a few posts like this so i will answer for every1 of them here

understandable. how many players play the game casually? AKA what the game is known for. when you play a game casually (me included), you touch it once every 2 days? maybe an hour here and there and then u play a bit more on a saturday? do you get what im saying? those that play it regularly, well then that’s nice, but i am sure you can agree its a casual game. i can imagine that the devs wanted players to pickup on content immediately when logging in and not have to go on a gear grind fest every year, but do you believe they intended for the game to be picked up so casually? on those boring days when u say “meh, let me turn this on for a bit”. i know plenty of people who have touched this game, including co-wokers, friends, etc. and even those who like it….find themselves not really playing it anymore. i will be pretty clear, i have seen the most garbage games that require you to pay HUNDREDS to have any fun in…..still running with a player-base. LOL yes there will ALWAYS be people playing this game, that is not the problem. yes it is successful cause they did a lot of things right. regardless, there is an undoubtable feeling of emptiness when you play this game that for SOME REASON does not keep the average player consistently playing. its a casual game to leave on the shelf and pick-up every once in a while when you get bored. its not a game to quit entirely, this game doesnt provide that sort of system, so full-blown rage quitters are rare.

snip

so you deny that this is a casual game? you also deny the FACT that devs didnt want players going on a grindfest for new gear every year, even though they themselves stated it? i am taking actual things and branching off from it. the branching off part is assumptions and ideas, but thats it.

See how that works?

Well done in completely missing my point.

I have friends in game that don’t treat this game as a ‘casual’ game, so based on their actions, I can leap to the illogical assumption that this is not a casual game.

Would love to see some links for your ‘facts’.

i understand exactly what you mean lol. you can look up that devs dont want a gear grindy game for yourself….its not hard to find. anyways, if you can provide any reason as to how this game is the opposite of what i mentioned, then hey i will respect that, until then ur word has no value, at least not to me.

Completely understand. Just as your opinion/words have absolutely no validity to me, either. You state your opinions are based on ‘fact’, therefore it is up to you to produce that ‘fact’ that you speak of.

Do I really care if you ever do that? No.

Just another opinionated blowkitten the forums……like the rest of us.

(See my sig)

there are no facts except the fact that devs said they want to avoid a gear grind fest like the gear grind fest they have with WoW. lol, you think ur making sense, but in reality ur making me feel bad for u. stop this nonsense there is no point in what your saying.

Guild wars 2 has no grind fest even close to WOW. I haven’t refreshed my gear for almost 1.5 years. I could have stock with my exotic accessories (half of them are still exotic) and it still wouldn’t have made a difference I can play all the content. In WOW, you HAVE to get the new tier gear or you get automatically locked out. I could have left guild wars 2 about 1.5 years ago and I wouldn’t have needed to get new gear.

Don’t get me wrong Arena net might have strayed away from their original goal of less gear progression by introducing Ascended gear, but it doesn’t make Guild wars 2 any closer to a grind fest like WOW. This isn’t politics where you can lie and hope people are too stupid to realize the truth.

Using hyperbole might give a few thumbs up from your fellow forum warriors but amounts to nothing, then again trying to convince someone with an agenda doesn’t work either.