Guild Wars 2

Celtic Lady.3729:

Adry.7512:

Celtic Lady.3729:

What exactly is it about the HoT expansion that you think will improve the game’s culture? Or make it less repetitive? I’m not sure I’m following.

the expansion will also greatly focus on the pvp aspects of the game, allowing a player like myself to branch off the repetitive cycle and possibly add some of my own flavor into my overall experience. you understand? as in, if i want to focus on pvp, i will do so in my own way, with enough variation to take my path my own way. there is no way for me to create my own path in this game.

Well, okay, but HoT is only adding 1 new sPvP map and 1 new WvW map. We have more variety than that right now in those areas. I’m looking forward to these new maps, too, but I don’t see that they’re overall going to really change the face of sPvP or WvW.

yes your right. my hopes is in the variety that they may add into guilds, like guild housing (which looks amazing). therefore i can branch off within there and follow my own path, even if its within the boundaries of a guild.

Adry.7512:

yes it is successful cause they did a lot of things right. regardless, there is an undoubtable feeling of emptiness when you play this game that for SOME REASON does not keep the average player consistently playing

I hate to sound repetitive (even more when repetition seems to be your biggest issue), but again, where’s this coming from?

Did you poll every player for this “undoubtable feeling of emptiness” or the consistency of their playing habits?

I’ve asked before on this thread too. I wasn’t going to bring it up again because, as I said, your lack of response is an answer in itself. But then you go and accuse others of not expanding their thoughts:

Adry.7512:

i simply dont care unless he expands on his thoughts

You also seem to forget that Anet is a business. They’re here to make money. I guarantee that if things aren’t changing, then the money isn’t short. Which doesn’t happen with a player base where the majority feel the way you say they do.

You feel demotivated. As your friends do. That’s a shame. But the game has only grown bigger, and the company more profitable. It’s certainly not because the majority is demotivated.

zoejo.2317:

Adry.7512:

yes it is successful cause they did a lot of things right. regardless, there is an undoubtable feeling of emptiness when you play this game that for SOME REASON does not keep the average player consistently playing

I hate to sound repetitive (even more when repetition seems to be your biggest issue), but again, where’s this coming from?

Did you poll every player for this “undoubtable feeling of emptiness” or the consistency of their playing habits?

I’ve asked before on this thread too. I wasn’t going to bring it up again because, as I said, your lack of response is an answer in itself. But then you go and accuse others of not expanding their thoughts:

Adry.7512:

i simply dont care unless he expands on his thoughts

You also seem to forget that Anet is a business. They’re here to make money. I guarantee that if things aren’t changing, then the money isn’t short. Which doesn’t happen with a player base where the majority feel the way you say they do.

You feel demotivated. As your friends do. That’s a shame. But the game has only grown bigger, and the company more profitable. It’s certainly not because the majority is demotivated.

sounds legit, well obviously i dont have a poll made (nor do i intend on making one) to draw any data from, but w.e.. all im mostly doing is drawing from my own perspective and conversations i have had with people in the chatbox, etc etc. ur right on the fact that what i say seems to sound as if im saying these are actual facts, but nope, just my own thoughts put on text. sorry if it came out that =/. anyways i dont believe i am wrong on the feeling i am describing as many people here have understood the sentiment behind it, but maybe i need to find more pleasure in certain aspects of the game, idk, ill give it more time.

Adry.7512:

zoejo.2317:

Adry.7512:

yes it is successful cause they did a lot of things right. regardless, there is an undoubtable feeling of emptiness when you play this game that for SOME REASON does not keep the average player consistently playing

I hate to sound repetitive (even more when repetition seems to be your biggest issue), but again, where’s this coming from?

Did you poll every player for this “undoubtable feeling of emptiness” or the consistency of their playing habits?

I’ve asked before on this thread too. I wasn’t going to bring it up again because, as I said, your lack of response is an answer in itself. But then you go and accuse others of not expanding their thoughts:

Adry.7512:

i simply dont care unless he expands on his thoughts

You also seem to forget that Anet is a business. They’re here to make money. I guarantee that if things aren’t changing, then the money isn’t short. Which doesn’t happen with a player base where the majority feel the way you say they do.

You feel demotivated. As your friends do. That’s a shame. But the game has only grown bigger, and the company more profitable. It’s certainly not because the majority is demotivated.

sounds legit, well obviously i dont have a poll made (nor do i intend on making one) to draw any data from, but w.e.. all im mostly doing is drawing from my own perspective and conversations i have had with people in the chatbox, etc etc. ur right on the fact that what i say seems to sound as if im saying these are actual facts, but nope, just my own thoughts put on text. sorry if it came out that =/. anyways i dont believe i am wrong on the feeling i am describing as many people here have understood the sentiment behind it, but maybe i need to find more pleasure in certain aspects of the game, idk, ill give it more time.

There are a lot of really good things I could say about this……

Not going to……but thanks for taking the time and reflecting upon your opinions with the willingness to maybe adjust your viewpoint based on some of the comments and your own willingness to look at things from a different angle….

That is something that is a super rarity on this board.

Well done. I truly mean that.

(And I know that doesn’t mean anything coming from me……but am going to throw my opinion out there anyways)

Grinding is not what ANET makes you do. Grinding was what AION made you do. If you wanted to hit level 40-50, you spent weeks killing the same mobs over and over again, because there were only enough quests at each level to grant one bubble on your bar, and the xp curve was extremely steep. If you wanted pvp gear, that was up to a month or two of repeating the same faction-locked instance per piece. If you wanted pve gear, you ran the same dungeon sometimes hundreds of times per piece.

If you needed to upgrade, you had to do the same. If you crafted, your odds of failing the proc to get the correct stat combo was higher than the success. (I played for two years and never saw my class weapons drop, and could not get the crafted account bound ones I needed to proc.)

This cost me so much time and gold that I can’t count the millions of gold it took to -fail-. I was farming and grinding 20 hours a day (I was homebound from illness), every single day, and I still could not advance my character to max because his gear and enchantmen’s were stuck at ten levels below cap.

if you understand what I’m trying to say, then you will understand that grindng means the required repetition of mindless crap to advance. You don’t. The leveling curve is easy. Exotic gear is easy. Skins are optional. PVP requires no special gear. What you are complaining about is that the content is not what you like, and so you made a really common mistake: you bought a game in the hopes that it would be something like WoW with nicer graphics instead of just buying WoW. You also bought a vanilla release, burned through content, and are now bored. Why? Buy a game with no expansions and take your time.

Why are all of you wasting time with this idiot? After all of this time he has yet to say what he wants to see in the game to make it “not grindy”. He only said “i just dont want to feel like a robot while playing the game.” that sounds like a problem for a shrink to handle not Anet’s dev team and not this forum. You all have made valid points as to why GW2 isnt grindy but he will always find a fault. If you say it takes 2 weeks to hit 80 he’ll just say why doesn’t it take 5 mins? If you arent happy with what you are getting out of the game leave, simple as that. You want to talk about it on the forums cool but you have literally made no attempt to solidify your arguements, its like you’re throwing stuff at a wall and seeing what sticks. Its a complete waste of time, you want an answer to this question? Go think about what you want, cuz right now it seems like you dont even know what you want. If you DO HOW ABOUT WRITE THEM DOWN TOO but so far every point you made is WAY off and I posted about this before…

You’re doing it wrong. Of all the MMO’s this one is the most unique by far. This one makes me feel like I matter more than any other. More importantly it allows me to follow my own path.

Every other game forces you to follow a series of quests and its generally just a bunch of jerk NPC’s handing out jobs left and right to whomever comes along. After you are done with his tasks, you have to talk with the guy next to him and do it all over again.

Reverence.6915:

There’s absolutely 0 grind in this game. People confuse farming with grinding. I’ll probably keep repeating that across multiple threads until people get that into their heads

Farming IS a form of grinding.

When there’s no grind, you never have to farm to get anything. You just go around doing the usual content.

I filled the HoM to way over 50 points in GW1 without ever farming once. Neither solo or in groups. Nothing. Just doing missions, quests, vanquishing, then zaishen missions when they were introduced. Any extra ecto I needed for the obsidian armor other than the ones I got doing full complete UW runs (not the partial farming ones) I got buying it in the trader with gold I earned other ways.

The fact that you think farming isn’t a form of griding only shows you got used to farming so much that you don’t see how it’s grinding. As if it was a the unique intended way to get anything rather than an extra mile for those who can’t wait to some extra stuff in less time than playing normally.

Farming should never be the way to get anything.

[quote=5027431;MithranArkanere.8957:
Farming should never be the way to get anything. [/quote]

What?

Hitomi Shadowleaf.5629:

After all of this time he has yet to say what he wants to see in the game to make it “not grindy”. He only said “i just dont want to feel like a robot while playing the game.” that sounds like a problem for a shrink to handle not Anet’s dev team and not this forum. You all have made valid points as to why GW2 isnt grindy but he will always find a fault. If you say it takes 2 weeks to hit 80 he’ll just say why doesn’t it take 5 mins? If you arent happy with what you are getting out of the game leave, simple as that. You want to talk about it on the forums cool but you have literally made no attempt to solidify your arguements, its like you’re throwing stuff at a wall and seeing what sticks. Its a complete waste of time, you want an answer to this question? Go think about what you want, cuz right now it seems like you dont even know what you want. If you DO HOW ABOUT WRITE THEM DOWN TOO but so far every point you made is WAY off and I posted about this before…

The OP’s original post was somewhat unclear. However, back on page 1 I asked for clarification and received it. Since you either didn’t read that post or failed to understand it, here are the OP’s complaints.

• ANet developers have developed a large game with many things to do, but doing them is very repetitious, including dungeons, sPvP and WvW. I would also add boss trains, EotM and champ/zone vent farms. While some of this is the nature of the theme park MMO, it is also an artifact of the game’s longevity.
• The OP wants 1v1 and 2v2 options for PvP. While this is unlikely to happen because eSport, the request would add variety to the PvP game.
• The OP complained about imbalance between professions. While I tend to disagree with his example, it is clear that some professions are better at 1v1 than others. The OP believes that going “far from the madding crowd” would generate more of a feeling of individuality, which would reduce his experience of play being repetitive.
• The OP complains about character builds being “set in stone.” While there is some aspect of “meta” to this complaint, it is certainly true that ANet set out to limit character build options, and that those limitations are built into the system by design. This contributes to the sense of sameness in playing a character.

So, what does all this have to do with perceived grind? The definition of the word grind is evolving on these boards. People are using the term to mean things it never applied to originally. The OP (and some others) are using it to mean a sense of sameness in what they do in the game, that contributes to boredom. Now, you can argue the meaning of the term all you want. That doesn’t change the experience of play that leads to the term being adopted.

After all that, the OP acknowledged that there were some changes coming and that he would reevaluate his experience going forward.

Adry.7512:

- snip -

And then here you come, throwing stones. Perhaps there was a dialogue going on in the thread that you missed.

Scryeless.1924:

You’re doing it wrong. Of all the MMO’s this one is the most unique by far. This one makes me feel like I matter more than any other. More importantly it allows me to follow my own path.

Every other game forces you to follow a series of quests and its generally just a bunch of jerk NPC’s handing out jobs left and right to whomever comes along. After you are done with his tasks, you have to talk with the guy next to him and do it all over again.

your right, but my friend, i have 5 lvl80s. i am way over that, i need end content to feel like i can create my own path as i continue to play the game. i need to create a legacy.

Adry.7512:

your right, but my friend, i have 5 lvl80s. i am way over that, i need end content to feel like i can create my own path as i continue to play the game. i need to create a legacy.

ANet said at some point that they wanted the player character to have more influence in the storyline. I’m guessing what they meant by that is to bring back different diaglogue options and paths to proceed on but this time it will have an even stronger impact on the story. Kind of like commander Sheperd in Mass Effect. And I’m sure you heard of the changes to the precursor weapons. I think this will help creating a deeper connection to your character and his legacy.

As for PvP/WvW… well you said it yourself. GvG and guild halls are hopefully going to build a stronger sense of community and identity with your guild. I’m not sure why you want 2v2 and 1v1 modes but if you want to do duel other players there are plenty of custom arenas that do duels, as someone mentioned earlier. I doubt that it will make your character any more “legendary”, though, unless you are really good and known among the pvp community.

Oh and you mentioned you don’t want to play like a “robot”. Maybe just don’t? You can get stuff like legendarys/skins/dyes just by doing whatever you enjoy, it might just take longer depending on what it is. And if there’s nothing fun for you to do in GW2 then you should probably look for other games that have less boundaries like DayZ or Skyrim.

I’ve played a vast majority of the MMOs on the market since I started with EQ1 in 1999. That is not an exaggeration. There are a couple I haven’t played, such as EVE, TERA, and ESO, but by far, I’ve played the vast majority.

Now, I’ll admit that I enjoy WoW when I do decide to subscribe and play, and ditto for SWTOR. But that said, GW2 is by far one of my favorite MMOs out there.

It’s nice to have the freedom to not be on a railroad, while not having to run the same dungeons or raids ad nauseum just to keep up with the latest expansion/gear reset.

I’ve yet to find a grind in GW2 that I “have to do.”

Reverence.6915:

There’s absolutely 0 grind in this game. People confuse farming with grinding. I’ll probably keep repeating that across multiple threads until people get that into their heads

Farming is grinding.

The real issue with this game is incredibly apparent from level 1 with any character, but I’ll relate my charrs experience: my character does 26 damage to an ascalonian ghost. NPCs do about 1. Maybe. Why is that bad? Because it’s stupid. Are you just another soldier in the Legion or are you some special snowflake? Because you sure as hell aren’t special outside of the personal story.

It’s like Iron Man thinking he’s one of a kind and incredibly powerful, only to find that there’s about 425,000 others who are either the EXACT same as him or slightly different. You aren’t unique. You aren’t special. You aren’t the only one that’s killed zhaitan, and even if you were, it’s not like killing him changed anything. Orr is the same whether Zhaitan is alive or dead, and I assume Maguuma will be the same way.

McNinja.5417:

The real issue with this game is incredibly apparent from level 1 with any character, but I’ll relate my charrs experience: my character does 26 damage to an ascalonian ghost. NPCs do about 1. Maybe. Why is that bad? Because it’s stupid. Are you just another soldier in the Legion or are you some special snowflake? Because you sure as hell aren’t special outside of the personal story.

It’s like Iron Man thinking he’s one of a kind and incredibly powerful, only to find that there’s about 425,000 others who are either the EXACT same as him or slightly different. You aren’t unique. You aren’t special. You aren’t the only one that’s killed zhaitan, and even if you were, it’s not like killing him changed anything. Orr is the same whether Zhaitan is alive or dead, and I assume Maguuma will be the same way.

This is the nature of any MMO: all player characters are around the same power level and the persistent world is persistent. If it’s wrong in GW2 then it’s wrong in all of them.

McNinja.5417:

Reverence.6915:

There’s absolutely 0 grind in this game. People confuse farming with grinding. I’ll probably keep repeating that across multiple threads until people get that into their heads

Farming is grinding.

Saying something is so doesn’t make it so. At least in the past, the two had quite different definitions.

But at least in Guild Wars 2 there are ways to farm without doing something repetitive. For example, doing the world boss train and running dungeons will give you gold. You can call it grinding for gold, but you’re actually always doing something different. The fire elemental isn’t anything like the Claw of Jormag or Tequatl.

Karma is something you farm, because you get it from doing everything. Again, you may not acknowledge that difference, but it doesn’t mean that difference doesn’t exist.

People have come to use the words interchangeably but they originally meant different things.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Farming IS a form of grinding.

Farming and grinding are the exact same thing/activity doing over and over again to get something (loot, achievement, gold, etc..)

Difference is: When doing that activity is fun for the player, it is farming. When doing that activity is not not fun for the player, it is grinding.

Example: Silverwastes: For some People it is still fun doing it over and over again (so it is farming for them) and for others that is not fun (so it is grinding for them).

Adry.7512:

i need to create a legacy.

build a house, father a child, plant a tree.

scnr.

Reverence.6915:

There’s absolutely 0 grind in this game. People confuse farming with grinding. I’ll probably keep repeating that across multiple threads until people get that into their heads

Well there is not a very specific definition what what means what.

But in general you can say, when going after a currency just to be able to ‘buy’ what you want it’s a grind, like grind for XP just to get another level, grind for gold to buy the item you want and so on.

Farming on the other hand is going directly for an item. Kill a mob multiple times because that mob drops the item you want.

But when an farm becomes to extreme (to low drop-rate or you need like to many mats (then mats become a currency)) people stat naming it a grind as well.

There is nearly no farming going on in GW2, but a lot of grinding.

Vayne.8563:

McNinja.5417:

Reverence.6915:

There’s absolutely 0 grind in this game. People confuse farming with grinding. I’ll probably keep repeating that across multiple threads until people get that into their heads

Farming is grinding.

Saying something is so doesn’t make it so. At least in the past, the two had quite different definitions.

But at least in Guild Wars 2 there are ways to farm without doing something repetitive. For example, doing the world boss train and running dungeons will give you gold. You can call it grinding for gold, but you’re actually always doing something different. The fire elemental isn’t anything like the Claw of Jormag or Tequatl.

Karma is something you farm, because you get it from doing everything. Again, you may not acknowledge that difference, but it doesn’t mean that difference doesn’t exist.

People have come to use the words interchangeably but they originally meant different things.

Looks to me like you turning the definitions around. Something like grinding xp to level is always something people consider or called grinding and you can do everywhere, just as grinding gold to buy your item.

Getting mats (that usually drops from one thing like iron drops from iron notes) they consider farming, just as killing a mob multiple times for a specific item it can drop.

Not that it matters much for the conversation, people dislike the way it works in GW2 whether you call it grinding or farming, but still looks like you are mixing the definitions of both words as much as there is a real definition.

IndigoSundown.5419:

McNinja.5417:

The real issue with this game is incredibly apparent from level 1 with any character, but I’ll relate my charrs experience: my character does 26 damage to an ascalonian ghost. NPCs do about 1. Maybe. Why is that bad? Because it’s stupid. Are you just another soldier in the Legion or are you some special snowflake? Because you sure as hell aren’t special outside of the personal story.

It’s like Iron Man thinking he’s one of a kind and incredibly powerful, only to find that there’s about 425,000 others who are either the EXACT same as him or slightly different. You aren’t unique. You aren’t special. You aren’t the only one that’s killed zhaitan, and even if you were, it’s not like killing him changed anything. Orr is the same whether Zhaitan is alive or dead, and I assume Maguuma will be the same way.

This is the nature of any MMO: all player characters are around the same power level and the persistent world is persistent. If it’s wrong in GW2 then it’s wrong in all of them.

Yeah, I don’t know what else to tell McNinja. If you want a game where your actions specifically affect the game world and the NPCs, I’d strongly suggest playing a single player RPG game.

Otherwise, what you described is the nature of MMOs. Outside of your personal story (if the game has one, such as GW2 or SWTOR), you do not affect the game world, NPCs, or events in any type of way except that you are one member of the player base that also got to experience that content. That’s it, nothing more. The game worlds are static such as they are to facilitate a vast player base online at the same time, as well as the new players that come into the game.

Eventually, we might see MMOs that could phase the game world as you complete things, such as what WoW (and some others) does with certain zones, questlines, and so forth. However, that opens another issue in that if your friends are not on the same phase of the same questline, you’re unlikely to be able to group with them. This specifically drove the wife and I nuts beginning with Cataclysm, when Blizzard went a little crazy with the questline phasing.

DrMcAwEsOmE.2839:

IndigoSundown.5419:

McNinja.5417:

The real issue with this game is incredibly apparent from level 1 with any character, but I’ll relate my charrs experience: my character does 26 damage to an ascalonian ghost. NPCs do about 1. Maybe. Why is that bad? Because it’s stupid. Are you just another soldier in the Legion or are you some special snowflake? Because you sure as hell aren’t special outside of the personal story.

It’s like Iron Man thinking he’s one of a kind and incredibly powerful, only to find that there’s about 425,000 others who are either the EXACT same as him or slightly different. You aren’t unique. You aren’t special. You aren’t the only one that’s killed zhaitan, and even if you were, it’s not like killing him changed anything. Orr is the same whether Zhaitan is alive or dead, and I assume Maguuma will be the same way.

This is the nature of any MMO: all player characters are around the same power level and the persistent world is persistent. If it’s wrong in GW2 then it’s wrong in all of them.

Yeah, I don’t know what else to tell McNinja. If you want a game where your actions specifically affect the game world and the NPCs, I’d strongly suggest playing a single player RPG game.

Otherwise, what you described is the nature of MMOs. Outside of your personal story (if the game has one, such as GW2 or SWTOR), you do not affect the game world, NPCs, or events in any type of way except that you are one member of the player base that also got to experience that content. That’s it, nothing more. The game worlds are static such as they are to facilitate a vast player base online at the same time, as well as the new players that come into the game.

Eventually, we might see MMOs that could phase the game world as you complete things, such as what WoW (and some others) does with certain zones, questlines, and so forth. However, that opens another issue in that if your friends are not on the same phase of the same questline, you’re unlikely to be able to group with them. This specifically drove the wife and I nuts beginning with Cataclysm, when Blizzard went a little crazy with the questline phasing.

There are some ways that you can make players have impact in an open world other then phasing.

You would need to make a more sandbox game with more dynamic code.

For example, when people can really build there own houses (while still being limited to specific places) what you see in the world is based on what players build and so completely impacted by the payer. That also means it’s completely unpredictable.

EQ:N is getting a system where some mobs have a more dynamic code / AI for determining spawn-places. They get some preferences (a troll likes forest area’s for example) and so some area’s get marked as forest. But a troll also does not like to get killed. AI then looks for the best place to spawn the troll. You could then go even go one step further and let people cut down tree’s and plant tree’s (so removing and adding new forest area’s). Now if you kill trolls a lot in one area’s they will go to another area all based on player action.

So it is possible to make people have more impact in the game-world also in a MMO.

Adry.7512:

your right, but my friend, i have 5 lvl80s. i am way over that, i need end content to feel like i can create my own path as i continue to play the game. i need to create a legacy.

Maybe I am just not into the role playing stuff enough, but how, exactly, does one create a legacy in a video game?

zoejo.2317:

Where are you coming from saying the clients are not happy? Did you look at their sales record? Can you back that up with something other than the voices of the few forum goers?

You’re a minority. The game is successful. It’s not changing anytime soon.

Titanfall had a ton of sales too. Man, that game must be SO GOOD. I bet the servers are flippin’ PACKED right now.

McNinja.5417:

The real issue with this game is incredibly apparent from level 1 with any character, but I’ll relate my charrs experience: my character does 26 damage to an ascalonian ghost. NPCs do about 1. Maybe. Why is that bad? Because it’s stupid. Are you just another soldier in the Legion or are you some special snowflake? Because you sure as hell aren’t special outside of the personal story.

NPCs are weak on purpose, presumably so they can’t complete events without player help.

game feels grindy because its not fun, if there was any fun content, ppl would spend more time playing it than grinding money to get skins.