Guild Wars 2

So my game today asked me to accept the new Terms of Service before logging in. I read through and noticed two passages that seem somewhat concerning to me. Can we get any clearer information regarding these?

First is section 4(b)
Periodic Payments Related to Accounts, Service and Content – ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, require You to pay to establish or maintain any Account, to use any Service or to use any Content. You acknowledge that if You are required to do so, but do not, then ArenaNet may terminate Your Account under Section 3(b). You additionally acknowledge that ArenaNet may require such payments on any basis it deems appropriate in its reasonable discretion, including but not limited to any per-use or periodic basis (such as a number of hours, days or months). And You acknowledge that ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, establish the timing and form in which such payment must be made, including but not limited to credit cards or online payment services. EXCEPT FOR THE LIMITED CIRCUMSTANCES OTHERWISE SET FORTH HEREIN, YOU ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ARENANET HAS NO OBLIGATION TO REFUND ANY PAYMENTS, IN WHOLE OR IN PART, RELATED TO AN ACCOUNT WHETHER OR NOT SUCH PAYMENTS WERE MADE OR AUTHORIZED BY YOU, FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO INTERRUPTION OR UNAVAILABILITY OF SERVICE (SEE ALSO SECTION 10). YOU ACKNOWLEDGE, AND FURTHER AGREE, THAT ArenaNet MAY, IN ITS REASONABLE DISCRETION, TERMINATE UNDER THE PROVISIONS OF SECTION 3(b) ANY ACCOUNT RELATED TO ANY ATTEMPT TO OBTAIN A REFUND OF ANY PAYMENTS, WHETHER SUCH ATTEMPTS ARE MADE BY CONTACTING AN ISSUER OF CREDIT CARDS OR OTHERWISE, AND THAT ARENANET MAY TAKE ANY OTHER ACTION IT DEEMS APPROPRIATE UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO RECOURSE BY WAY OF ANY COLLECTION AGENCY AND/OR CREDIT REPORTING AGENCY WHEN A REFUND HAS BEEN OBTAINED WITHOUT SIGNED WRITTEN CONSENT FROM A LEGALLY AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE OF ARENANET.

Does this mean that at some point the game could switch to a subscription model, and we would lose our accounts if we chose not to pay? Is this added in because you expect this change, or just as a safeguard in case you choose to change your business model?

The other part that seems highly concerning is section 7(d).

ArenaNet HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO MONITOR OPERATION OF ANY SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME AT ANY TIME AND IN ANY MATTER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY, OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME. SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING THE GAME UNDER SECTION 8© or 8(e).

What are the limitations on that monitoring? Since GW2 runs as Admin it is technologically possible (and if we accept this agreement, legal) for you to monitor our hard drives, items in RAM (which includes passwords for other applications), as well as what processes we are running. That seems rather excessive just to ensure that people are not exploiting or cheating. Are you monitoring all users carte blanche, or is this only in targeted cases where cheating is suspected? If it is carte blanche that seems extremely overhanded….

TLDR; Concerned about the ability to instantly switch to subscription model, and even more concerned that this agreement gives you the legal ability to monitor our entire computer including things that you have no business monitoring.

If those clauses haven’t bothered you for the last 3 years, they probably should not bother you now.

Nothing was changed regarding the above. I see no reason ArenaNet would suddenly enact any provisions now, that they have been able to since launch.

Good luck.

The first part, in the limited time I have atm, simply seems to be about the method of acquisition of a game key, whether by purchase or giveaway.

As for the second, that pertains to enforcement of their ToU/ToS regarding violations. Likely specifically those regarding anything client-side. Additionally, the extent of monitoring would likely simply be the game files and memory locations the game is residing in, as well as network traffic, and any programs running concurrently that happen to sniff at those things (such as CE) to find if something is encroaching where it should not. Beyond personal observations that seem reasonable, short of a legitimate lawsuit subpoena, Anet’s not likely going to give you a verbatim explanation of what limits there are to the monitoring. Why monitor in the first place if you’ve told those you’re monitoring FOR exactly how to avoid said monitoring?

And FINALLY, you’ll notice in the last section you quoted, the ToS is a blanket ToS for all of Anet’s stuff, NOT specifically GW2. This means that Anet’s likely got other projects in the works, and needed to update the ToS to provide themselves legal coverage over what they need to do to operate those projects.

This thread New EULA has a red post (and is on the first page of this forum)

Basandra Skye.4031:

The first part, in the limited time I have atm, simply seems to be about the method of acquisition of a game key, whether by purchase or giveaway.

As for the second, that pertains to enforcement of their ToU/ToS regarding violations. Likely specifically those regarding anything client-side. Additionally, the extent of monitoring would likely simply be the game files and memory locations the game is residing in, as well as network traffic, and any programs running concurrently that happen to sniff at those things (such as CE) to find if something is encroaching where it should not. Beyond personal observations that seem reasonable, short of a legitimate lawsuit subpoena, Anet’s not likely going to give you a verbatim explanation of what limits there are to the monitoring. Why monitor in the first place if you’ve told those you’re monitoring FOR exactly how to avoid said monitoring?

And FINALLY, you’ll notice in the last section you quoted, the ToS is a blanket ToS for all of Anet’s stuff, NOT specifically GW2. This means that Anet’s likely got other projects in the works, and needed to update the ToS to provide themselves legal coverage over what they need to do to operate those projects.

Your assumption that the monitoring is limited to the area where the game resides isn’t actually based on anything though, which is why I’m asking the question. From a technological stand point, a program that runs as administrator on windows or root on linux/POSIX CAN make system calls that will tell them more than just what their program is accessing. They could list your entire hard drive, access any file, read areas of RAM which can include sensitive information, etc. That’s what worries me. You simply assume that they don’t do it, but this contract allows them from a legal stand point to do so (and I know that the technological capability is there).

The part about the payment method is more of a side note. I can live if they change their model to subscription; I simply stop playing if I find it not worth it. I’m far more concerned with the blanket allowance of surveillance of any device that I run their software on.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

This thread New EULA has a red post (and is on the first page of this forum)

Thanks! I was able to look at the links and find that the monitoring clause was in the original as well (which is what I was more concerned about). Admittedly I neglected to read the EULA when I first installed since I was too excited to play. I still want clarification on the clause, however, since I can simply uninstall, or go virtual (which would be highly unfortunate) if I’m worried about the surveillance from now on.